Flak 88: Accidental Tank Killer?
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- The 8.8 cm Flak (Flak 18, 36, 37 and 41) is famous or infamous for being a tank killer in World War 2. Yet, this weapon was by its designation an anti-aircraft gun. This raises the question: Why was there a armor-piercing ammo available for this gun during the Battle of France (1940)? Was it designed as a multi-purpose gun from the start, later on or was is the background for this?
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» SOURCES «
Jentz, Thomas L.: The Dreaded Threat. The 8.8 cm Flak 18/36/37 in the Anti-Tank Role. Panzer Tracts: Boyds, MD, USA, 2001
Neuman, Ernst: Handbuch für den Flakartilleristen (Der Kanonier). Waffen und Ausbildung der Flakbatterie - 8,8 cm-Flak und 2cm-Flak. 8. Verbesserte Auflage. Verlag „Offene Worte“, Berlin, 1941.
Armee Oberkommando 6, Abt. Ia/op. Nr. 130/40: Neufassung Aufmarschanweisung „Gelb“, 11. März 1940 - wwii.germandocs..., Accessed: 4th March 2019)
War Department: German Antiaircraft Artillery, Special Series No. 10, MIS 461, February 8, 1943.
McNab, Chris: Flak 88. 8.8cm Flugabwehrkanone (Models 18/36/37/41). Owners' Workshop Manual. Haynes Publishing: Somerset, UK, 2018.
Fennell, Jonathan: Fighting the People’s War. The British and Commonwealth Armies and the Second World War. Cambridge University Press: Cambridge, UK, 2019
Wilbeck, Christopher W.: Sledgehammers. Strengths and Flaws of Tiger Tank Battalions in World War II. The Aberjona Press: Bedford, PA, USA, 2004.
Millen, Raymond A.: The Resilient Defense. Land Warfare Paper No. 100, May 2014: The Institute of Land Warfare. Arlington, Virginia, 2014.
Zaloga, Steven J. (2011). Panzer IV vs Char B1 bis: France 1940. Oxford: Osprey
Hahn, Fritz: Waffen und Geheimwaffen des deutschen Heeres 1933-1945. Dörfler Verlag: Eggolsheim, o.J.
Fletcher, David: British Battle Tanks. British-made Tanks of World War II. Osprey Publishing: Oxford, UK, 2017
Dierich, Fritz-Herbert: Der Flieger. Dienstunterricht Fliegertruppe. Verlag von E.S. Mitller & Sohn, Berlin: 1941.
French, David: Raising Churchill’s Army. The British Army and the War against Germany 1919-1945. Oxford University Press: London, 2001.
Senger und Etterlin, F. M. (Hrsg.): Die deutschen Geschütze 1939-1945. Bernard & Graefe Verlag, Bonn, 1998.
"Because organization is good for you"
Just in case the viewers weren't convinced by your accent.
Bwahahahaha!!
I love this sarcasm - it sounds legit from a German
@@atzuras he is Austrian
@@freycomm35 *Even Better*
@@imapopo2924 Traditionally Austrians are thought to be a bit more laid back in temperament than Prussians and other North Germans. I don't know if that is still true, but at least in the 19th century the Austro-Hungarian armies were not always terribly well organized. Of course the Dual Monarchy was actually a multi-national empire, which tends to bring its own set of complications.
0:19 The legend lives on because of “You need to take out that 88mm (artillery) emplacement”- Every WW2 vidya game ever
Even if in IRL the place actually had howitzers instead of Flak. Except for the Flak Tower in Medal of Honor Airborne; those actually were Flak but I doubt anyone was crazy enough to attack one with paratroopers in reality.
A similar thing happens if you read soviet war memoirs written from front line soldiers - everybody claims to have encountered/destroyed a Tiger when it was most likely a Panzer IV or some other facist box tank that may look like a Tiger from a distance to a nervous infantryman,
@@dillhuang5988 _Panzer l approaches_ OH SHIT IT'S A TIGER, FIRE!
@@dillhuang5988 If the Germans had as many actual Tigers as the number of Tiger kill claims the Germans wouldn't have lost the war. :)
"TAKE OUT THOSE FUCKIN PT BOATS!!!"
..wait, wrong situation...
Treaty of Versailles forbid Germany from manufacturing Tanks, but said nothing about mounting a Tank-killing gun on a Truck body. I see what you did there Germany.
Kind of like they couldn't build bombers, but fast heavy(for the time) cargo and airliners were ok. It just happened that they could easily be modified to carry bombs
@@travisrolison9646 I see the chinese are taking a play out of the nazi war book.
For other German tricks see pocket battle ship
Allies were boneheads after all unlike Germans.
Dennis Schultz Graf Spree shit was so OP they had to block the harbour with a lot of cruisers😂
When your engineering are so good that you accidentaly build an anti-everything
True multi purposes weapon. With flak 88, you can get AA canon, Anti-tank weapon, even Field artilery.
Kevin Including anti-transmission in your tanks
Stug iii most produced tank, aka tank hunter
Anti-anti
@Alexander Challis Fucking wall of text. Use paragraphs man.
They were given AP rounds because of Stalin's fixation with flying tanks, of course.
Referring to the "NeuesTestament" comment?
*YOU SEE, IVAN..*
"Make tanks fly or *GULAG!"*
@@weldonwin OMG....that's brilliant. lolol
it was Tukhachevsky’s fixation and he was gone to hell a long time before
Meanwhile, Pak 36 gun crews were found on the streets jobless and begging for food.
Aaron Seet "will trade the pak for food, and chocolate"
Pak 40 was deadly as well.
@@angelamagnus6615 - True, but not available until 1942, and it was regarded as quite heavy. Not much chop against air attack either :)
The story of 88flak teaches us that you can be whatever you want: your heritage doesn't define you! You can be a panzer killer even you were born in an AA body!
Even In a U boat killing boats as a surface killer.
Perfect. I self-identify as a Panzer IV ausf H.
@@c1ph3rpunk Mit Schurzen???
Definitely, I’ll wear steel skirts.
Try telling that to an Unrotated Projectile Launcher.
Germans when they realize that their AA gun can smash tanks : "Didn't expect that, but that's okay"
Rommel liked your comment.
Weird flaks but okay? xD
A surprise to be sure but a welcome one
Imagine if the Allies/Soviets had Modern MBT at the start of WW2?
How effective would the Flak 88 be against them?
A suprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
“Organization is good for you” the most efficient German statement ever.
8:10, average speed of a pigeon eh? What about the average speed of a swallow?
An African or European swallow?
@@Yassen2828 I don't know that!
Does it have a coconut?
@@The_Brickster it has , kind of... :D
*German accent* Now, let's take a clozer luk at ze beats per zecond of both burtz according to the primary zources.
The way I see it, it's a heavy anti-air gun that just so happened to be effective at killing armoured vehicles. Similar to how smaller AA guns with fast firing armaments were used against infantry and light vehicles.
dakadaka against aircraft, dakadaka against lightly armour vehical, dakadaka against infantry
Dakadaka for everyone!
@Joseph Sosa extra extra dakaka dakaka boss?
The British had a similar AA gun but its mounting was not built for horizontal firing. It could be done but soon failed. The Brits never adapted their AA gun because the 57mm Six Pounder AT gun was so effective. Bring smaller the crews were smaller and they needed less logistical support. Big enough did the job.
@@davidelliott5843 I mean, the british were so desperate after loosing in france that they had machine pistols wielded together as anti air guns as the US wielded m2 brownings together. Just with the slight difference that the brownings worked, the MPs didnt.
Playing Steel 44 division right now. I can confirm that I use my AA guns vs infantry too. And they are prety effective!
6:18 "the next aspect is organization... Because organization is good for you "
Apparently this man should be a life coach for aspiring world dominators.
Such German, much Teutonic.
Military weapons/equipment isn't my area of historical interests but this channel is the exception to the rule. The accent, the presentation and the air of authority are perfect for the subject matter. You know how when Americans hear a posh British accent, they automatically think the person is smart, well for British people, when we hear someone speaking with a thick German accent, we automatically think they are smart....lol.
But he doesn't have the stereotypical German accent. His Austrian German accent is softer.
dan the man you don’t know much about Americans lmao
@@edi9892 sounds like a Carinthian accent. Probably Villach
@@moloids I can't tell that from his accent in English and I am Austrian.
@@edi9892 just a guess. I am from Villach myself.
Ayo I assume that you don’t get this often, but I appreciate your sense of humor in your videos. They help at least me to stay on track with the information of the video
@Mial isus
*ba dum tss!* 🥁 😂 🤣 😅
wait, you can't drop a teaser like the speed of a pigeon and not tell us what the actual book says the average speed of a pigeon is. I must know this vital and possibly life saving information right now!!!
Obvious hook for a future video. Possibly an April fool's day release with real figures but a range of seemingly nonsense facts he has dug up over the years
Perhaps stuff like toilet paper rations over the course of the war, in theory and in practice.
Wait. Is the pigeon African or European?
Are we talking a laden or unloaded pigeon here?
What's the airspeed of a pigeon carrying a coconut?
@@pladderisawesome what is the average walking pace of a wounded pigeon attacked by a German falcon and shot at by friendly infantry while it's company is under fire by friendly artillery? True story.
A well trained pigeon goes 100-120 km/h. Pretty flipping fast. Falcons can only get them boom-and-zoom in dive attacks
6:17 "The next aspect is organisation, because organisation is good for you"
Classic! 🤣🤣🤣
(As an Englishman living in Germany for 20+ years, I have to agree!)
US personel tended to call everything they encountered as a thing they feared (human nature). So all anti tank guns were "88s" even if they were 75mm 105mm or 150mm. And tanks encountered were often called Tigers weather they were nor not. A simliar thing was in the Pacific. A fighter aircraft incountered was a "Zero" weather is was or not, as in Oscar or Frank.
Fun fact most Tigers they saw were in real the Panzer IV with the long barrel high velocity 7.5cm gun. It did the work as good as the 8.8 of the Tiger.🤷♂️
The so called "tiger phobia" was more common with US troops becaue many of them had little comabt experience. The averange solider tended to call up for the first thing that came into his mind.
Frosty, forgive my pedantry but it's whether, not weather. Unless you are experiencing a storm or the likes.
US personel couldn't make the difference between 0.8 kg and 8 kg of incoming explosives (88 vs 150) so they named everything after the smallest gun.
porcelli occidet pingues mollitia sit amet
Wow so salty, lmao
Regarding to the setup of a heavy Flak-Batterie in a ground combat role, I might add that the battery, if deployed near the frontline, would not be positioned in the shown square setup, but instead in a diamond-shaped setup (Raute). This would allow at least three guns to engage in ground combat, the rearmost gun of the Raute would still be connected to the Kommandogerät for AA purpose only.
This setup was developed by the Flak-Abteilung of Legion Condor in the Spanish Civil War, where the 8,8 batteries, in the later part of the war, were mostlty been used in a ground combat role (as artillery, not so much against tanks). (H.A.Koch, Flak - Die Geschichte der deutschen Flakartillerie, 2.Auflage, 1965).
My AAA training experience isn't from WW2 but still almsot 20 years ago, but there is one aspect i expected to come up which surprising to me didn't: We were tought that if the AAA position encounters enemy troops, it usually means that something has gone terribly wrong, but still you learn to react to it. That's why we had AP rounds, learned to aim on moving ground targets, learned to shoot it without powercontrols on ground targets and even had tanklike objects on the simulator.
That sounds interesting. Could you please elaborate on it?
@@TheCimbrianBull What part of it?
@@nirfz
If possible could you please tell me something about where you were trained and what material you used?
@@TheCimbrianBull Austria, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oerlikon_GDF
(sadly i don't remember the mix of ammo, usually there was a mix of the several ammo types so no "quick" adaption needed if the situation changed. And how did they say: even a training round wouldn't be pleasant if it hits you in the air...)
“You know that AA gun?”
“Yeah what about it?”
“Let’s put it in our new Tiger tank”
Ah yes, the Flaktiger
In this day this shoud be easy to understand, it was an anti aircraft gun that identified as an anti-tank gun
😂
Now it has always been a multi-purpose gun.
FLAK 88 comes home from school: "Mom, Dad, I feel like I am not a FLAK. I feel more like a PAK." Mom: "Oh god!" Dad: "We will always love you. Here! Take this armor piercing ammunition! Follow your dreams! We believe in you."
Did it use the anti-tank bathroom?
@@SchwachsinnProduzent ahahahahahahahaha
Shoots like a giant 30. 06 beautiful trajectory. Extremely accurate...perfect....
Regarding the Schritt conversion, I doubt it was considered necessary to remind a German soldier what a pace was because marching drill was the most basic of training. The Wehrmacht put less emphasis on fine marching than previous generations, but everyone learned to march and pacing was the foundation of marching. A soldier who didn't have a good idea of what a pace was probably unfit to be a soldier.
Thanks for putting it in perspective.
You already learned to march in Elementary school
@@tavish4699 *straight out of Mutters womb
The cadence was 114 steps per minute and each tritt (step) was 80 cm, unless it was ohne tritt, (without step) or route march over rougher ground.
@@peterk2455 The power of 80 cm, eh? The ancient art of Drill, beginning with just getting a large group of people to step together as one regardless of their natural heights or strides, really is the heart of military discipline and coordination at every level. Shame popular culture tends to glaze over or outright ignore this truest form of war dance.
Upps Hans, ich habe schon wieder aus versehen einen T34 abgeschossen
Macht nix Erich. Die haben genug davon.
Ist der Panzer etwa geflogen? Ach diese verrückten Russen. Weitermachen Gefreiter!
@@bulldowozer5858 panzer vorwärz!
@@bulldowozer5858 Sehen Sie, Herr Kommandant? Ich habe ihnen doch gesagt, dass letztens schon ein BT an mir vorbeigeflogen ist.....
Erst BTs, jetzt T-34s.....
Wenn demnächst auch noch KV-2s angeflogen kommen, kriege ich einen Anfall......
Uuund da fliegt der Kv2
You always pick the best topics! Great job!
My father once told me that the electrician that did the first installation in our house (55 years ago and before my time) was part of an 88 crew on the Eastern front and presumably did destroy quite a few tanks with it. He used good camouflage and mobility to elude being hit and not taken out himself and was even awarded with a high decoration for it.
Toward the end of the war he deserted and went home, hiding in the woods until it was finally over.
The two deadliest weapons in the German WWII arsenal - the infantryman and the eighty-eight.
number one: the stalag
@@catdog6037 34 is better, don't @ me.
@@thepancakemann @
What about the sturmgeschutz
"Because organisation is good for you" I laughed my head off.
Such a German thing to say
I'm really glad to hear a German or German speaking historian talk about WW2 and especially talk about the Gernan army and the Nazi's instead of an American or British historian. You've got yourself a subscriber sir.
He is Cherman.
The fact that RUclips's auto generated captions got most of the captions correct is impressive. I've seen many native English speakers got RUclips's auto captions messed up. Keep up the good work brother.
In a post apocalyptic 2050;
"how do you know how to use this century old thing?"
"um.... 05:37 "
Cheers for the shell selection tip, always wondered which was which.
It's been widely claimed that the 88s were used in the antitank role in the Spanish Civil War too, but I haven't been able to dig up any concrete evidence of this during my research. They were widely used in the ground support role though, where their long range, accuracy and rate of fire were highly valued. They were famously used to support a huge cavalry charge in Alfambra, during the battle of Teruel in 1938.
Weren't the tanks used in the conflict obsolete by the time ww2 began?
@AKUJIRULE Can't really call T-26 and BT-5 modern for 1939 tho
@@Fruzhin5483 it's pretty modern considering the Germans are mostly fielding panzer 2s in 1939,
@@Olive-uo7up The BT 5 was designed in 1933 and T-26 was designed in 1931, while they were revolutionary for the early 30's they were outdated by the start of the war. You point out that the german army used a lot of Pz2, well the Panzer 2 was from the next generation, made in 1935-36. Also, by the start of the war the Wehrmacht had already put the Pz3 in production and began designing Pz4.
@@Fruzhin5483 that is true, and don't forgot that all German tanks had radios while other countries used flags or such while only the command tanks had a radio so yeah your right Soviet tanks were pretty outdated compared to the germans
gonna steal those strats for my Steel Division 2 builds
I keep chuckling at the "High muscle velocity."
Great video, loved it!
My Dad piloted B-24s over Southern Germany and Austria near the end of the war, thirty missions plus lone wolf missions. Fighters were scarce tho still could be dangerous but flak was awful. As the Germans retreated they took their flak guns with them. Tho the war was essentially lost, vital targets remained fiercely defended, especially oil. Above all else, bombers crews dreaded the 88s. Dad said there was the occasional 105 bursts but mostly 88s. Facing a barrage over Vienna or Regensburg was bad enough but if the 88s started to track you, things got very scary indeed. He made it home. He never saw a fighter directly shoot down a plane but he distinctly recalls flak burning planes up and falling to the ground in pieces with the occasional white chute tumbling out.
Glad that he got home in one piece, not everyone was that lucky....
However I have read in R,V.Jones 'Most Secret War' that although the bomber crews consistently feared the flak guns (so much that bomber command never routed raids over the city of Overflakkee in Holland due to the name), when analyzing damaged aircraft and interviews with individual airmen it was pretty clear that fighters were the primary threat to bombers at least in the first half of the war before the Luftwaffe was was worn out due to attrition.
@@srenkoch6127 Absolutely correct. Again as the Germans retreated on all fronts they took their 88s and such with them. Flak intensity around major targets increased dramatically while fighters were all but done.
Could we get a video solely on ammunition? :)
Mystery solved. I’ve wondered about the AP rounds for almost 30 years (obviously without researching it). Thanks for a great video.
5:32 thx for the advice I'm planning on using this knowledge as much as possible.
I read elsewhere, and it might be an Urban Legend, that at one point in the Normandy invasion, a German officer ordered the flak batteries to concentrate on the oncoming British tanks. The battery commander refused, saying they were anti-aircraft only. The other officer drew his Luger and pointed it at the commander's head and said "Fire on those tanks, or your wife will hear some interesting news about you." And the 88 was born as an anti-tank weapon. :-)
The 88 was first used against armor in 1936, in Spain.
One video from MAH about the 88mm in its anti-air role and at the same time another video from MHV about the 88mm in its anti-tank role.
The Axis are hitting us with combined arms videos!
Bruh
My Grandmother was in charge of developing film, that analyzed the effectiveness of ground fire from anti aircraft batteries. She stuffed a whole lot up and the Gestapo were looking to execute her as a spy, but her CO took the blame and nothing happened. She said they would analyze the photos and adjust the flak batteries accordingly, so to be more effective in future raids.
A most informative complement to Bis's video. The flyboys supporting the ground pounders, this close coordination is most German. They may be up to something here.
I guess i should learn german just in case 4th reich conquers my country(i am currently living in turkey)
@@nejlaakyuz4025
I suggest stacking up on Panzerfausts and Panzerschreks!
Thanks for the tip on ammo. It'd suck to load the wrong one when you're being overrun.
"Which nowadays is known among War Thunder players as 'Flakbus'" - 4:30 . I never thought anyone would say that lol
*Which is Called by Warthunder players as Flakbus*
That line got me 🤣
actually there was no imperial german army in ww1. There was a royal prussian army, a royal bavarian army and so on..... But there was an imperial german navy.
"No reason a weapon can't have more than one use. In fact, I'd say it's versatility how well you designed it." - Solid Snake, Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Funny how you mentioned warthunder players to simplify the name of Flak Bus
Named flakbus /toaster before on wot before war thunder though. Players playing both just carried the name over
It also has a soviet counter part.It is called the vodka truck
@@is2341 isn't there another one from the Soviet union, called the milk truck
“So If you support the reunion of flak families...” Equally as good as the otherwise referenced line on organization - this one deserves recognition.
I also support the reunion of flak families
Nice video, thanks a lot. Maybe you cant find defense plans for 88mm Flak against ground targets because there were none. One of my Uncles manned a 88mm at the eastern front and according to what he told me Mother Russia was just to vast to have 88s in every infantry defence position. They were held in a backward position until tanks were reported. Then they would be towed towards these atacking tanks by halftracks. At the deceided defence position the half track would unhook the gun, unload ammo and equipment and leave the scene before the gun even had been set up althoug, well drillen, it only took them seconds. The halftracks were in very short supply and had to be saved at any cost. After finding the targets, establishing range the work at the tanks would start at max distance, knocking of turrets at distances of over 2k. My uncle said you want to be finished with them before they are closer than 800m, cause thats when the russians, never stopping and always firing, would start to hit things. Naturally, this is just the second hand memory of one individuell.
No mention on the Spanish Civil War? AFAIK, the 88's proefficiency as an AT gun was discovered there, after repelling a T-26 republican attack.
@wood1155 You wouldn't. But you would for a Char B1. If the 88s had been used in an anti-armor role for so long, I would expect them to find their way into armor defense doctrine by May 1940.
@wood1155 88mm shell weighs around 10 kg, punch like Mike Tyson. Rommel used them as ATG when the British Matilda's attacked at Arras in 1940, so they might not be part of the doctrine, but people knew what they could do. Remember, Rommel commanded Hitlers bodyguard, so any news from Spain got to him very fast.
@@sjonnieplayfull5859
Mike Tyson?!
"Now kith!"
@Magni56 true, just another division general in 1940. And the months before that? Say, during the Polish campaign... Any idea what he did then?
@Magni56 ah, so when its long over, everyone has heard about it... So when i ask ten people in the street how the Germans dealt with russian armour in Spain, all will reply with: their 88mm FlaK18 ofcourse...
The Dutch only knew of the airborne attack on Oslo airfield because a Dutch pilot was there during the attack. His description and the Dutch countermeasures caused the German attack on Dutch airfields to fail with heavy losses. Around 300 Ju52 transports destroyed, most on the ground, 1600 prisoners made. Three airfield captured back by inferior Dutch troup under constant air threat in the open Dutch fields. All this less then a month after the attack on Oslo, so little time for preparations. Now compare this to Crete, 1941, so more then a year after the attack on Oslo. The Germans captured one airfield and held it through the campaign. The English defenders knew they were at war with Germany (for almost two years), the Dutch did not (the airfield bombings were roughly the start of the war for the Dutch), the British had all seen action, some as recent as the Greece campaign, while the Dutch never fired a weapon in earnest, or at all. The list goes on, but the only thing in favour of the Dutch compared to the English was their knowledge of the attack on Oslo. So yeah, everyone knew 88mm could kill tanks like a wolf kills sheep, thats why the British had no trouble at all in North Africa.
Did you find out yet where Rommel was during the Polish campaign?
From what i know and have read this was a great design that lent itself to multiple roles.
Loved the video.
you mentioned that the gun was also used in a naval capacity, would this not be where the armor-piercing shells came from? surely they would not mount such large guns on a ship taking up tonnage and space without making them dual purpose. it was fairly common practice.
the type 7 Uboat had an 88mm deck gun
88mm guns were used on everything bigger than a destroyer as dual purpose secondary armament as well as deck-gun role on subs.
but the land based flak 18 got its ap-ammo for breaching bunkers and not specifically for destroying tanks.
the german army had dedicated anti-tank guns already and it just so turned out that the flak 18 was better at destroying tanks than most pak´s used in the war.
@@uteriel282 The use of 88s as a ground fighting "unit" came during the spanish war, by spanish, not germans. Germans didnt move ground troops to spain, only an air force while they convinced the italians to move ground troops, which were terrible and got mowed over and over by the terrryfing (by those days) t26s. The use of this gun as a surface fighting gun was simply out of necesity, which happens a lot during a civil war... First tanks destroyed by this gun were manned by nationalist troops and were t-26s, it was the best thing they had to destroy those, it is simple as that. They could use a torpedo for it if they could add wheels to it and make it go cross country.. it is what happens during civil wars....
Given the typical tank of 1935 the "88" would have been considered an extremely extravagant example of over kill , much like the concept of an atomic sniper rifle .
"Disclaimer Ausf. A".....man I love this channel!! >_<
I didn't visit any military parks when I was in Slovenia, I'll have to add that to the list for a return trip.
it is awesome, I also recommend booking a visit in the submarine: ruclips.net/video/nWVQlGPQvtU/видео.html
I remember that there was an official Wehrmacht document discussing the 88. It was concluded that its AT usage was not its intended usage and should be avoided. Whether this was some local unit document or a general one I cant remeber.
Knowing the speed of a pidgeon is always important.
From the biography of Erwin Rommel by David Irving (dutch version, p.61): "Rommel must have been exhausted, but during the Arras crisis on May 21st it didn't show. He personally lead the firing on the approaching Matilda's [Mark II]. Experience had learned him the hard way that only heavy air defense artillery (the Flak88) had a high enough muzzle velocity to stop these colossi"
He protecc
He attacc
But most importantly
He doesn't give you flacc
8.8 cm in the kriegs Marine, will clear up your missing background on the weapon and how it is related to "Armor penatrator" because to be effective at sea, you will need to be able to penetrate ship armor, not just wimpy tank armor.
I used to fire from 88mm on Adriatic island Vis as Yugoslavia soldier in year 1981 and it was very easy and exciting #
Was it an actual German gun from WW2? Or was it a gun of later origin?
It is quite possible yugoslav army used weapons (oiginal and Yugo made) from all sides if they thought it was good for them for example: US M2 browing, German MG 42, Soviet PKM ...
@@altergreenhorn true! Yugoslavia also was making copy of mg42 known as M-52
@@lacabb Maybe! I started forgetting my history :)
@@TheCimbrianBull It was original German Nazi Germany canon the Nazi cross swastika was still on the locker of the barrel
0:25 Bill Mauldin's book about "Willie & Joe," his cartoon series based on his experiences fighting in Italy, has a pretty lengthy section about this. He has a begrudging respect and awe for the "Eighty-Eight" and even made a few comics about it despite the fact that he's most likely not being shelled by one at all.
That's funny-- at 0:30 I noticed in the film Kelly's Heroes (dumb film but epic too), the one corporal says "those are German 88's" referring to the artillery dropping around them... turns out it might have been historically accurate after all (from the perception of the American soldier)?
Sure. Just as every tank they saw was a Tiger. Gets you in the proper frame of mind.
@@lamwen03 exactly. good point
lamwen03 best to be ready for the worst though
It could of been 88's shelling them it was possible and was done on more than a few occasions. But it is more likely that the standard every tank is a Tiger syndrome was going on.
The same thing happened in Band of Brothers. At Brecourt manor they were sent to "take out the 88s". Later on, Winters reported that those 88s were actually 105s.
Good info. Next time I go to war, I will keep all this in mind. Thank you.
“Because organization is good for you” (German accent intensifies)
No hyperbole, no hearsay, or myths, just facts and objectivity.
The german way, that is if you don't count a whole bunch of the commanders trying to save their reputations by blaming as many of their personal shortcomings and internal career struggle as they can on The Madman.
Jentz and Doyle mentioned, swell with obscure details about German AFVs
It is amazing how well he speaks in every accent!!!
4:30 Where are the War Thunder players.
I'm here lol
they are still waiting für se flak bus
Here!
Knew someone would comment this. :P
@ur mom It's just deceiving you, since it's not really true to scale next to the 8t-Zugkraftwagen on the left. It's actually pretty monstrous as it needs to fit a full blown FlaK on it's back and has additional spaced armor on the front and sides of the cab. I don't know the exact length of it right now but I would guess it to be something around 6-7 meters, give or take, for the ''18t-Zugkraftwagen'' on the right and around 4-5 meters, give or take, for the ''8t-Zugkraftwagen'' on the left.
Was it not considered for the anti-tank role immediately pre-war because 37mm and 57mm were considered adequate calibers at the time? Short-sighted, but both sides were caught flat-footed with obsolescent 37mm guns mounted in their tanks and separately, I think.
Best wishes from Northern Ireland..
In regards to why the 88 is repeatedly reported over 10.5cm and 15cm guns by US and British troops, '88' was simply slang for any German weapon by Normandy.
You can tie this down to troops entering theatre, and period accounts of briefings by cadres from more experienced formations briefing newer arrivals, leading to rapid adoption of slang among units before they've even come under fire. Thus it becomes popular parlance and endures long after the war, ultimately reinforced by popular culture and uncritical interpretation of veteran accounts.
You notice a similar phenomena in effect among German forces, as their reports tend describe all Allied tanks (regardless of type) as 'Shermans'. This doesn't tend to be challenged by historians as a rule, and is another reason we can get janky perspectives on engagements.
Of course we do see limited employment of 88s in the ground/indirect fire role by III Flakkorps, but that's a topic (along with effectiveness) for another day.
what was the average speed of a pigeon?
It probably depends on whether the pigeon was carrying a message or not. I wonder what the average payload of a pigeon is.
african or european?
Slower than a peregrine falcon, so the British used them as an adjunct to Fighter Command in WW2, to kill German spy pigeons ferrying messages back to Europe. However, any sneaky German spy pigeons went without markings, (risking being shot) so the falcons probably went for more blue-on-blue attacks on Allied homing pigeons carrying messages.
is so Monty Python
A well trained pigeon goes 100-120 km/h. Pretty flipping fast.
I really appreciate the effort you put into making these videos. Good stuff!
The flak bus is a godly creation
Is that a feldgrau background? Most appropriate! Great video as usual.
When you put the 88 into a tank you call it “a Tiger”
my fathers first cousin was in Germany during WW2, he was dug in across a river, and he was under direct fire from an 88.
He survived, but the event made an impression on him.
"What is the airspeed velocity of an unladened swallow?"
"Vone moment, let me consult ze german military manual..."
Ask monty python
Maybe the 88 was seen as an Overkill for the normal tanks around 1935. That could be the reason why it is not mentioned
Been a while since I checked back in. The jokes are a nice addition. Keep up the good work.
The Armor-piercing capacity was something common for the AA guns of the period, as in order to shoot down planes they needed to send shells on a linear trayectory with an enormous muzzle velocity, which is something that also gives armor-piercing characterictics to a gun. In fact the Soviets did the opposite: many of their anti-air guns of the mid to late war are repurposed versions of anti-tank guns with said high muzzle velocity.
I enjoyed your attempts at humor, very funny.
The anti tank role is probably mentioned for the smaller AA guns in the 30s because the tanks were less armoured then and an 88 might have seemed like over kill.
Great video! Thank you for this presentation
My father served in the Grenadier Guards 1939 to 1946 and was first an infantrymen then a tanker from Normandy onward. He said the 88mm was the weapon of the war.
Luftwaffe AA gunner:so why tf wont we use it against tanks
There's a trailer-borne one of these at a local aviation museum! They used to keep it outside, but moved it into the hangar with all the German fighters
It’s been 80 years and we’re just now getting a video of this caliber on this game changing piece of equipment.
I remember these things being devastating in the old AH game Tobruk. But they were huge targets as well.
4:04 - What sorcery is this!!! The German text and the english translation come out to only a few characters difference in length rather than the German being 2 or 3 lines longer!!!
MHV... what innocent souls have you sacrificed to make this achievement possible!
I was surprised too!
So glad i discovered this channel. Thumbs way up from a fellow history lover.
Well now I know how to pronounce 'schritt'. I have been pronouncing it wrong all these years. (It is what the sight of the Austrian M95 was calibrated to, later being updated to meters.)
Just a small note: the icons on the diagram for the optimal configuration of a flak unit, were a little small when viewed on mobile and hard to make out, just thought I’d let you know xoxo brilliant video as usual
"So if you are a supporter of the reunion of flak families like I am, you know where to go." Brilliant and hilarious
According to my dad - an infentryman in France in 1944 - he could distinguish 88s by sound and flat trajejtory.
I expected it to be an heritage from naval combat.