2002 F250 SD Random Stall and No Communication With PCM. 7.3 Powerstroke Diesel part 1
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- This 02 Super Duty will randomly shut off and at that time it will lose communication with the PCM. What caught me off guard is the fact that the MIL was illuminated with the ignition on. It turns out the MIL control on this truck is via Standard Corporate Protocol networking between the PCM and the IPC and it is not hard wired to the PCM. I'm going to try a previously enjoyed PCM in the truck if I can source one.
Here is tge fix in part 2... • 2002 Ford F250 7.3 SD ...
I just came across your channel by accident and I have to say that I am pretty impressed by the way you interact with your viewers and try to answer their questions. I believe that quality, along with good content will make you successful. All the best! Just subbed.
Yes I try to respond to every question and help as many people as possible. Knowledge is power! Thanks for the feedback too.
Phillip, that is very strange i never heard about engine light been on through net work communication but not from PCM it self and as always great video brother waiting for part 2.
Yes I was surprised as well. Looks like they did this from 2002 to 2004 on the diesels at least. I had never seen it before. That's what caught me off guard.
Phil, I've got the exact same 7.3 diesel & year model truck as this one and can't seem to find ANYONE that can figure out what's wrong with it. I'm NOT a diesel mechanic but have 45yrs of high & low voltage AC & DC troubleshooting so I've got Fieldpiece voltmeter but don't have Snap on diagnostics tool. Is there ANY other way to troubleshoot or determine what's causing my electrical issues with my truck other than using a Snap On? My guess is I've got either a grounding, PCM or IDM issue but need help tracing out where the breakdown is occurring? The problem only occurs when either the engines warmed up or the outdoor ambient is above 50F. It begins by surging as your driving & maintaining normal speeds, not when you're accelerating. By surging I mean it feels like I've switched a tuner from "Stock" to the "Racing" setting. While maintaining any speed on a level surface, all of a sudden it'll take off feeling much like what a gas engine with nitrous oxide feels like when you push the nitrous button, but only for a short moment before going back to standard acceleration. Then when you come to a stop light or stop sign, it'll either start running really rough & shut off completely or it'll just shut off with no warning whatsoever? I've checked & made repairs on all my wiring harnesses (No check engine light present) but when checked by mechanic, he claims there are multiple random fault codes present? Any thoughts & is there a better way to communicate with you like email or phone number? Thank you!
Great video . I am having issues with no communication to ECM and random no start on L99 7.3 that I got running to be our service truck. Leaning towards failing ECM.
The wait to start is the key. If its on your running if not your not . Fighting a2000 f350 7.3 as we speak. Ive got 15hrs in this problem with no answers and no new available pcm .
Update? What have you found?
Nothing. Pretty sure the ecm is bad . Even when dead " no coms no wait to start" i still have all powers / grounds , 5v ref and wake up .
@@ALEX-xd7ko Bummer. I needed to replace my Cam Position Sensor. I've never been able to communicate with the ECM, but I don't want to think about replacing it unless I absolutely have to, (neither easy nor cheap). If it cranks but the RPM gauge doesn't more, it's the CPS.
I just fought with this on my 01 Excursion - send it off to Diesel Technology of Chattanooga to be rebuilt. $525 later, I'm back in business.
Having same problem with mine but it will let you start the truck one time then you kill it try to start it again and it won’t start just turn over A mechanic shop told me it losses comunicación with idm and pcm but they couldn’t figure it out
I have a doosey of one for you guys: 02 F350 7.3 2wd. No cruise control. All sensors checked including: brake pedal switch, parking brake switch, vss on diff, transmission range sensor, master cylinder brake pressure sensor, clock spring and steering wheel switches. Hooked up my launch crp123x and all sensors check out to work correctly. Heres the kicker. There were some wires exposed on the driver's side undercarriage going from the rear of the truck all the way back to the engine bay. Between the fuel tank and fuel pump are where the exposed wires were and when it rained or washing the truck the cruise would work. After making repairs to the wiring harness, cruise no longer works, rain or dry🤷♂️
Are there not two brake switches, one on the pedal and one on the master cylinder? Yes there are... one is normally closed to pin 31 of the ecm and should power a test light until you step on tge brake. The other is normally open and should power a test light to pin 92 when the brake is applied. This same switch also grounds pin 92 when the brake is released. I would expect the ECM to put a bias voltage on the circuit to pin 92 so try measuring the voltage with a voltmeter back pinning pin 92. Expect bat voltage brake applied and 0 volts brake released. Could be a bad ground to G201. Pin 29 should act the same as 92. Make sure all tge brake lights work including the center high mount. Do you have modified tail lights? LED?
@@PhillipBailey hello and thank you for taking time to reply back. All my tail lights work, the only led lights I have in the rear are for the license plate. All three brake lights are halogens. I don't have a test light. I have a scanner and a multimeter. Where is ground 201 located?
Also, yes, the pressure switch on the master cylinder shows open when pedal is pressed and closed when released. The boo switch/brake on/off switch also is showing off when not pressed and on when pressed.
@shadowwolfx333 if you're checking them with the scanner watching data that should be good. Put your volt meter on the BOO switched output wire and be sure it reads battery with brake applied and 0 volt released. Do you have an aftermarket brake controller in it?
@@DeepSouthBayouDiesel G201 is above the fuel pedal beside the radio
@@PhillipBailey the boo switch is OEM and was replaced about a week ago. I visually inspected the "guts" of the switch and ran a continuity test on the switch after reassembly. And yes, it reads 12 volts with brake pedal applied and 0 volts at rest. And I cleaned the wrong ground🤣 I removed the driver side kick panel and removed the pink/yellow ground and sanded the paint off and sanded the connecting side of the ground. Still nothing. I'm going to check the grounds above the acceleration pedal like you mentioned and if that doesn't work, I'm going to tap pcm wires: 51,77 and 103. Those appear to be grounds. Reading my scanner this morning, I took notice that at rest my batteries show 12.3 volts, but when I select pids for pcm, it only shows 11.1 to 11.2 volts. Maybe one of the ground are loose or open🤷♂️
Thanks for the really good in-depth video on the electrical system.
Thanks for watching
did the fix stick? i had the same issue put in a new PCM still persists.
@@limit23 yes its been fine since
So i worked on a 2000 f350 7.3. Would stall / cut out at highway speed. Ended up being a blade terminal that got folded over on the gem module. That folded over terminal was just kissing its female counterpart on rhe fuse panel that happened to power PCM. Was like this since new. Really odd scenario that baffled many mechanics before me .
Hi Phillip, wondering if you can help me with your expertise.
I have a 2002 f350 7.3, problem I’ve been having and can’t seem to find is with power loss. Truck runs fine, but when getting to 65-70mph the stuck loses power. What I’ve noticed is that the rpm’s drop when this happens. Then the truck losses power/bogs. I can press on the pedal and nothing. But if I ease into it at some point power picks up like nothing ever happened. What could be the issue? Also when this happens on my cts3 edge monitor the gear indicator with show a lock next to it. Showing it locked. That’s when I lose power, when the lock is unlocked or is gone, that’s when I get all the power. Please help me out 😪.
All sensors are new, OEM from dealer. Only one I haven’t touched is the IPR valve sensor, but I don’t believe that’s the problem as it starts,runs and idles fine. New motor, stage 2 turbo, 205/30 injectors, new glow plugs, fass fuel system, stage 1 Hpop, hydra chip, and recent transmission rebuilt.
Any help from you or anyone with this issue before that found the solution.
I gather it's not setting any codes. I'm not familiar with the Edge tuner but I'd likely recommend returning to the stock tune as sometimes the aftermarket tune has tuned out potential fault codes.
@@PhillipBailey I’m using the edge to view my PID’s. Hydra is the tuner I have, has a spot for stock tune. I can try driving it in stock mode for a while and see if it still does it. But I have a feeling it’ll be the same outcome.
Had codes checked my snap-on reader, fixed all but one. P0232 “fuel pump secondary circuit high”. I believe this one is from no wiring the fass fuel pump to the original frame pump power source. Install instructions came with wires and fuse to run separate.
Hey Phillip. Great video. I'm having trouble and don't know what else to look for. Here's a summary of where I'm at. Any ideas?
2002 F250 7.3 POWERSTROKE
248K MILES
WAS RUNNING PERFECTLY, TURNED OFF. WON’T START AGAIN.
2 IDENTICAL BATTERIES - FULLY CHARGED, TIGHT CLEAN CONNECTIONS.
NEW MAP SENSOR
NEW CAM POSITION SENSOR
NEW FUEL FILTER
NEW FUEL BOWL HEATING ELEMENT
NEW ENGINE OIL PRESSURE SENSOR
NEW GLOW PLUG RELAY
NEW INJECTOR CONTROL PRESSURE SENSOR
NEW EXHAUST BACK PRESSURE SENSOR
ALL FUSES CHECKED
ALL RELAYS CHECKED AND SWAPPED OUT
NEW EXTERNAL FUEL PUMP RELAY INSTALLED
INERTIA SWITCH VERFIED AS GOOD. NO POWER GOING TO IT.
FUEL PUMP WORKS WITH EXTERNAL BATTERY ATTACHED.
NEW IGNITION SWITCH
ALL DASH LIGHT COME ON.
GLOW PLUG, CHECK ENGINE, SEATBELT, CHECK GAGES, BATTERY AND BRAKE LAMPS STAY ON IN RUN POSITION.
FULL MOTOR OIL.
HIGH PRESSURE OIL RESERVOIR OIL LEVEL 1” BELOW TOP OF OIL PLUG
RUNNING PERFECTLY UNTIL 7 DAYS AGO.
CRANKS BUT WON’T START.
MULTIPLE SENSOR PLUGS WERE CRACKED OR BARE WIRE. REPAIRED ALL.
UNPLUGGED ICP SENSOR, NO START.
TWO SEPARATE CODES READERS WON’T CONNECT TO PCM. POWER AT PORT BUT NO SYNC.
Faulty ecm connection at the harness.
@@ALT_RIGHT Wondering if this was the fix
I'm in the same situation. Really sucks. I haven't even gone to the extent that you did. My cousin had a similar problem years ago and never figured it out.
@@ALT_RIGHT Exactly my problem....bad main engine wiring harness. Installed a new one, and a new main fuse panel under the steering wheel, "Big Lou" came right back to life.
@@prmcollin Changed main engine wiring harness and the fuse panel under the steering wheel. Truck came right back to life. I did leave the fuel relay as an in-line modification instead of rerunning it through the new panel. A little tedious, but anyone can do it.
Hello! I have a 97 7.3 that stalls every time I hit a bump. The check engine light flashes proceeded by WTS light and then truck works fine until I hit another bump.
You likely have a compromised wire in the harness. With the truck running manipulate the wires at the fuse panel under the dash, tap on the relays and the ECM. Remove the left inner fender to access the ECM connector and tap, move the harness going into the ECM and along the left side of the inner fender all the time while running to see if you can duplicate the condition. Good luck.
I have a 2001 f550 7.3. Runs great sometimes others it bogs down like out of fuel. Let it sit for awhile and can drive again. One shop said, injectors, pump and "BCM" pump. Other mechanic ran codes and it says bad PCM. Thoughts, please? Only 54k miles
That's a tough call. Need to see what tge data parameters are doing during the power loss. Obviously you have changed fuel filters. Have you confirmed supply fuel pressure during the power loss?
It's a coating in the fuel tank. It plugs up rhe "sock" in the tanks.
Hook up a fuel pressure gauge to bowl and watch psi drop while your truck bogs.
I could really use your help on my fathers 96 f250 7.3 powerstroke. It will run for 10 20 mins then shut off just like we turned the key off. We have threw every part we can think of at it. Replaced almost everything but the high pressure pump and low pressure pump. The scanner says there reading correctly. So haven’t replaced them. I can give a detailed list of your interested in helping. I can cash app you some cash if your willing to give us some ideas that could help.. we just can’t trust the truck right now. Go few miles down the road it will prolly die about 4 times. It could run for 10 mins before it cuts off or it could sit and idle for 45 mins before it cuts off. Most the time it starts right back up. Sometimes it won’t start back up. Let it sit awhile it will fire right back up.. any ideas will help.
After it stalls can you communicate with the ECM with a scan tool?
Do you know how to test the 4 signal wires between idm and pcm i have a p1294 code on 2000 ford f250 that i cant seem to track down these are the last 4 wires before i buy an idm also do you know if the 4 wires can shut down one bank specifically
Check out this video...ruclips.net/video/Rwv2ICbtRlc/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Wires rubbed on left valve cover. And yes it will shut down a bank with that code.
I have made repairs to those wire before i also load tested and continuity tested everything seems fine do you know if the pcm diode in fuse box can cause single bank to shut down i have been all thru the harness and have load tested everything but the 4 signal wires that go from pcm to idm i cant figure out how to test them im not getting a reading from plug to plug. Do you know if the signal wires can shut down individual bank
@rustyshackleford6137 I've heard of guys switching the location of control wires at the IDM and rerunning the injector buzz test. Of course it can't be run like that but the buzz test is fine. If it sets the same code I'd say it's the IDM. If the code moves then it's the wiring or injector. You can measure the resistance of each individual injector at the IDM connector as well.
@@PhillipBailey hmm ok will look into that i have ohmed injector selonoids off injector they all check out however i suppose could still be bad thou have read about something touching selonids inside injector will try unplugging and running thanks for your time
it would been nice to have those 60 pin break out box
I actually have two 60 pin breakout boxes but this PCM is 104 pins. I have a Thexton and an OTC version of the 60 pin which was good up to the mid 90's. If they still used the 104 pin format I would probably buy one. Oh wait there's one on Ebay: www.ebay.ca/itm/363585927221?hash=item54a768f835:g:2rEAAOSwC-NhbcpC
@Phillip Bailey yes i do remenber now it was on 87 ecIV
Is this going to have to be the programming you leave the key off until it asks for a teartag? I would of scoped power ground 5 volt data line from the start. You a teacher?? You said students
@@philh9238 yes I teach apprenticeship students at the local college. Getting to the PCM is time consuming and not convenient. Even back pinning it is difficult.
My 2000 f350 started throwing a stored momory code in the Idm after i put new injectors in it but only when cold and really only when on the trottle
Fuel economy has gone down and a few days ago truck lost power hard
Changed fuel filter runs good again filter didn't look bad
In any event can an idm cause these problems or does the truck just not run good at all if the idm goes out
What code/s is it setting?
@@PhillipBailey p1316
It's been doing it 3 years now only when cold on start up till warm and only after I put in remain injectors
Runs great no mis no stubles starts to -10
No problems till few days ago when it lost power
It seems the filter has fixed that thou
@lenardruterbories6742 The 1316 code is a generic code for injector circuit/IDM codes detected. It usually sets together with a specific injector code. What scanner are you using and can it perform an injector buzz test. Since tge problem seems to be temperature related you may have to do it cold. I'm sure you are aware of the valve cover gasket connection issues inside the valve cover. Check out Diesel Tech Ron's channel it you haven't already. Here is a link: ruclips.net/video/GHwjEfJtM_g/видео.htmlfeature=shared
@@PhillipBailey new ucvhs and when I replaced them wires where cracked and I thought I got this suckered licked but no dice
I wonder if one of the injectors was machined too tight?
Also I live in montana and I don't trust any of the shops to do anything was hoping what ever it is would just break to I can fix it
I will call around see if anyone is competent in diagnostics
my 99 7.3 was. going 70mph and fell on its face and would not crank, threw same lights as this, and i believe it's the same problem, very similar
Could be several causes. Start with a scan.
I have a 2001 f250 v10 does not crank on parking does on neutral but doesn’t start. Fuel pump seems to stay on with the key on and overdrive off light also stays on. I’ve tried almost about everything on checking fuses , shorts on wires and relay replacements don’t know what to go on from what I’ve done. Also I don’t have communication with the pcm from my scan tool.
What is the history on the truck? Can you read codes and data from the PCM, GEM, instrument cluster.
You need to confirm powers and grounds at the PCM. You may be missing a ground. Measure voltage on a vref 5 volt wire such as the TPS or map sensor. If it has EGR check the 5 volts at the EGR sensor. Try disconnecting the EGR sensor.
@@PhillipBailey bought it from a tow yard was previously stolen cluster didn’t work so I replaced it also replaced pcm from the junkyard since old pcm would make it run rough but tried to fix old pcm so vin would match and pass emissions here in California. When I installed it back it would not crank on park just neutral but wouldn’t start so I put back the replacement pcm and has the same problem now only cranks on neutral but no start has symptoms I mentioned in the first comment.
@@PhillipBailey cannot read codes just says error in communication with pcm
@guillermolongoria3169 sounds like you're dealing with multiple issues. Was the used cluster from a 1/2 ton? If so it may have Passive Antitheft enabled in it. If I remember correctly in 01 the PATs was in the cluster but the 250 and 350 did not have PATs unless it was an option. Still if it is a PATs issue it won't crank at all and you say it cranks in neutral but won't fire. As I mentioned in a previous reply you need to identify the ignition power, battery power and grounds to the PCM. There is likely more than one of each. Try Alldatadiy.com for diagrams. Next go to the TPS with the key on and backspin the 5 volt ref.
Hi I have a 2000 Ford F250 V 10
It turns off idling or running Iturn key and it starts back up I had a Mecanic put I a fuel pump and still turns off it’s driving me crazy
The gas V10 is completely different fuel and electronics system from this 7.3 diesel. Intermittent problems are the hardest to track down. You basically need to drive it with test equipment on it to capture the problem. That may include monitoring scan data, fuel pressure, system voltage etc. Obviously start by scanning for codes. If it shuts off like you switched off the ignition I doubt its the fuel pump as that would tend to die slowly as the fuel pressure dropped. It would not usually restart as if nothing was wrong either in my opinion. I'd be focusing my attention on a possible ignition switch problem or a possible crank sensor problem. If it always only stalls at an idle I'd bet a loss of the crank signal is the cause whereas if it cuts out at any speed could be ignition switch. If it dies after hitting a bump could be a wiring problem
Hi I'm have the similar issue it's like pcm not sending power to injectors switched ecu from a working f250 still have a no start issue new sensors ipr ICP hpop help please
Does the ECM communicate with a scan tool? Any codes? Does the scanner report RPM while cranking? What is the actuation oil pressure? What is the FICM voltage. Using a scan tool can you perform an injector buz test?
hey buddy I have an 03 f350 7.3 have I'm having the same problem mine would just die also but mine was losing the ground for the PCM relay and also now I lose power to starter signal wire. I have power to ignition switch and relay for starter. but the yellow with blue wire to starter has nothing. all fuses are good but two fuses for starter have no power till you turn switch to crank.
Sounds like an ignition switch problem. Have to test outputs.
In my 99 7.3 I have crank no start no comm. 12V from fuse 30, also 30A under dash is not sending voltage to the PCM diode in the engine bay fuse box and then not powering up the PCM and IDM when I turn the key on. I am going to remove the fuse box under the dash and look for the red/ light green wire that feeds the PCM diode tomorrow and verify continuity from the connector to the PCM Diode wire. I have an open somewhere that is preventing the PCM and IDM relays from turning on. Shops charge too much. I will eventually find it.
Good luck
Removed fuse box. Total pain in the ass. In the fuse box where fuse 30 pushes in, the connector was too loose. Removed with pick tool and bent the connector so it is tight again. Reinstalling now.
Success. She is alive.
Did you solve it? I've got the exact same issue. Stall, crank no start, cycle the key and it will start
Yes the ECM solved this one but may not solve your issue even though the symptoms are similar. Is it setting any codes? After it stalls do you loose communication with the ECM?
@@PhillipBailey yerp. No codes. Stalls randomly. Sometimes after quite a bit of driving. Sometimes after a few moments idling. Won't restart immediately. Turn the key off and back on it will start. And yes when it stalls I lose communication. Turn the key off and back on I have communication again.
@@smrtrbl86 well technically you need to confirm you're not losing battery or ignition power to the ECM but that's not easy to do as you see in the video. It would be easier if you could source a used ECM and just try it. As long as it comes from the same speced truck it should work.
Good video I have a question about the glow plug light which one in the dash is the glow plug ....wait to start
Yes Wait to start is the same light. In some markets it uses a symbol.
@@PhillipBailey okay I seen that funny symbol. I was wondering if that was the glow plug! If the glow plug light come on randomly would it hurt if your driving
@@ajhartjr1205 probably won't hurt anything as these glow plugs are pretty tough and stay on for several seconds at a time. Are there any codes related to the glow plug system being set? If it's consistent enough I'd wire in a temporary test light to the output side of the glow plug relay and drive it while monitoring the action of the test light and dash light. Check the control wire to the glow plug relay for a possible short to ground as well.
@@PhillipBailey I'm trying this the weekend thank you for taking time to respond 🙏
i have a 1999 7.3 and i turn it on it starts no check engine light or anything i’ll let it idle for about 30 minutes then it starts to surge then sooner or later die but if i’m just driving it’s fine i’ve replaced ipr icp cps fuel filter changed oil
Just cause there is no cel doesn't mean there isn't codes in the ECM. If no codes you need to monitor data just before it stalls to note what's going on. You could also try a KOER self test and see if it sets codes. After it stalls what do you have to do to start it?
Did that fix the issue I have the same problem with a 2000 e350 it only did it to me twice and I can’t get it to do it again
Same thing no communication just have the switch on for a few seconds cycle the switch and it would start right up leave it open a few seconds and then check engine would turn on and no start no communication
Replacing the PCM appears to have fixed this vehicle but there are lots of possibilities for this stalling condition. Do you loose communication with the PCM as well.
@@PhillipBailey yeah i disconnected the connector and found a little corrosion clean it then it really stop doing it but I’m not a 100 percent sure
@@PhillipBailey thank you tho the video at least gave me a sense of direction to start at
Hey I’m looking for where you got the diagram from!
Check out Alldatadiy.com. it's not free but quite reasonable imo. I'm actually using another information site called Identifix but it's geared to shops and monthly use.
Hey man great videos!! So I’m having an issue. I have a 2000 7.3 it’s turning off at idle and if I’m driving it it has a service ending soon light and while driving it the truck will start running rough like it is miss firing then the service engine light goes away and if I kill the power and start again it runs great but light comes back on and after a bit it starts running rough again and advice?
First you have to start with a scan to see what code/s are being generated. Could be lots of possibilities for the running rough and stalling. Let me know what code/s are setting that will help.
Oil pressure
Hi Phillip I have 2002 f550 7.3l I went to an electrician for some marker lights that went out on me I don't know what he did my truck cranks but don't start I went to another shop who deals with fords they said the ecm gets the signal but they still can't be sure what it is ...U know when u turn on the ignition on these truck the fuel supplies to the fuel filter until it clicks its not doing that now any clue what it could be?Thanks
does the check engine light when you turn on the ignition and then go out or does it stay on steady? Did the truck die while the electrician was working on it?
@@PhillipBailey No it does go out after I turn the ignition on ...It was turned off when he was working on it then he told me to move it I tried to start it cranks but no start u know how it does when u turn the ignition on it does the gurrrrr noise then sends the fuel to fuel filter bowl & clicks it does that gurrrrr noise but I don't hear the fuel going to fuel bowl & the click
@@bxtbill I believe the 550 has a hard wired check engine light but not 100% sure of that. Does it talk to a scan tool? are there any codes reported? Does the wait to start light illuminate as it should? check fuses?
Try those things and let me know...
My 02 started clicking
Gem module