I love the parallels in this book of Vi learning about her powers and her insecurities. As she is learning from Felix about the basics she's learning how to trust Xayden and piecing together why she has insecurities with him and others. To be fair they both are dropped in her lap at the same time and it's alottt to process 😂. This book was about growth and learning to trust herself, just *chefs kiss*.
I was BAWLING my eyes out when I was reading about Lilith at the end of the book. I don't know why other people weren't as impacted as me! I cried multiple times when I was reading Lililth's little breaks throughout the book. Her breaks could mean the death of her family by showing leadership she might not be as loyal as they think. She has to play that role, even with her children. Maybe I just have my own history with a detached family, but those scenes highly impacted me as someone who isn't married or has kids.
I only teared up when Liam died but I bawled when Lilith died. I think it was the willingness to sacrifice herself and her dragon knowing she would die to protect her children that made it so impactful.
I also thought that Lilith’s character had a lot of depth and I was super affected by all her later scenes when she opens up and especially her death scene. I didn’t cry but it definitely got me so hard!!
I have a pet theory on why Riders are allowed to marry early. Of any quadrent, they would be the ones that would be able to pack up and go if they disagreed with how the situation was handled quickly and easily. So here's Lilith, all ready to brag about her new promotion to her husband in kids - and she finds out that they are the bad guys and dessertion would cause retaliation on her family. A family that would take time and coordination to get out - which would cause suspicion. The extra cherry on top would be if this was when she came home with the red eyes, and her little baby was terrified of her.
As someone with estranged parents issues, that scene absolutely wrecked me. To learn that she wasn't as cold as we were led to believe, and then to have the possibility of a (somewhat) mended relationship between all of them ripped away, was devastating.
Xaden being hurt each time Violet tells him she trusts him with her life is a callback to Fourth Wing where she woke up after being mended and told him: "Just because I believe you and am willing to fight with you doesn't mean I'll trust you with my heart again. " He is waiting and hoping for her to trust him fully (with her heart) again...
With Naolin, it's kind of implied that he and Brennan dated (at least to me). Xaden becomes a venin because of his love for Violet, right? What if Naolin turned because of his love for Brennan? He saved his life, and the cost was his own soul? Like a complete parallel to Violet and Xaden. I don't know if I'm looking too deep into it but it's what makes the most sense to me?
I've thought from book one that Brennan and Noalin were in love. Noalin would do anything to save Brennan and when he needed extra power to save him. He chose to pull from the earth to save the man he loves.
About the line where Violet says she trusts Xaden with her life and why he is hurt/disappointed by this… I took it as her basically saying I only trust you to be self-serving and keep me alive to keep yourself alive. In this episode you talked about how trusting him with her life seems like a big deal because it’s a whole ass life but I’d argue that in this situation where his life is tied to her life it’s not as weighty a statement and she isn’t saying she trusts him with her life because she knows he loves her and wants to keep her safe. She’s saying I trust you with my life because if I die you die and you don’t want to die. That’s how I interpreted that part, at least
Super pedantic explanation, but for the epigraphs where Violet is listed as "Cadet", etc. I think we can safely assume that these are from items preserved in the archives. As someone with a MLS with Archival Management emphasis, if I were bringing items into a collection, part of how I would label items like the letters would be to identify where that person was in their military career when that item was created. Violet is a cadet, and Xaden is a lieutenant when the letters are written. She and Dain are cadets when translating the journal. Items created when they were at different ranks would reflect that (Ex./ letter excerpt from Lieutenant Violet Sorrengail to Colonel Mira Sorrengail). It's especially helpful when you don't have years on the items themselves and want to date them as best you can for organizing in the collection. Jesinia is a scribe at heart. She may rebel against Basgiath but she wouldn't just throw these items in a box and call it a day, especially they are trying to undo the damage done by previous generations and the misinformation campaign that was perpetrated. A proper, well-organized archive would be even more important in that case. Also, we archivists tend to be a bit fanatical about our systems. And I feel Jesenia is an archivist (scribe) at her core. *These items Matter*. *See also "Lieutenant Colonel" in the epigraph vs. "Colonel" in the story itself
Re: 50:00 mark, I don't think the bonds break when they turn venin. In chapter sixty there are two lines. First one when jack says " How easily the energy she bonded us with is replaced?" meaning jack was using venin energy to replace the one bonding them, I don't think dragons themselves can sever the bond. Second line from the same chapter is "Jack's motions grow weaker, his breath more labored, just as Liam's had been". Killing his dragon almost killed jack, he somehow managed to use energy to keep himself alive, but i wonder if it's permenant solution, or something he activly has to keep on doing. So if Naolin is alive, I think only he could have severed to bond with Tairn, not the other way around, it's possible Tairn doesn't even know he's alive. I'm not sure I like the idea of Tairn lying to Violet again
Unpopular opinion. I don't think Naolin is alive. Baide kept the secret of Jack being alive from the other dragons, which to me means that the rider bond is still in place because "nothing is stronger than the rider bond except the mate bond". And from what we can tell, Jack didn't become a Venin until after Threshing. Which means, if Naolin was still alive Tairn wouldn't have been able to bond with Violet and he would know Naolin is still alive and is a Venin. Even if Tairn somehow broke the rider bond with Naolin, I don't think he would keep that secret from Violet given what he says to her at the end of Fourth Wing and with all of the secrets being kept by Xaden and Sgaeyl. I think Lilith was possibly stabbed by the same poison blade that Violet was, given her reaction when she finds out, and that's the 'sickness' that drained Violet while she was pregnant. I also think Papa Sorrengail was killed for what he knew and the research he was doing on feathertails which has mysteriously disappeared and I believe has to do with Andarna and why she chose to wait to hatch for Violet. Given he was a scribe and everything he knew, I don't think he would become a Venin willingly.
Re: Violet knowing more than the revolution about venin and wyvern, I'm not that surprised because she has an illegal fables book given to her by her father that is banned all across Navarre. It also seems Brenna and Violet are not close in age (we assume about a decade apart), so he wouldn't be around her when her father was reading her bedtime fables that she has read a million times. Even Jesinia could not find anything on them, so I can see how this is a new development for much of the revolution. It also seems as if it very much depends on the region, as we note Rhiannon had a similar fable growing up, but Ridoc and Sawyer didn't. We also know Poromiel knew a lot more about the venin and wyvern, but as Navarre had its borders closed for many years, we cannot say how much Poromiel shared with Navarre and the Tyrrish as a whole.
I don't think there were any hatchlings in the Valley because it was such a big deal when the first one hatched. That was when Violet and her squad escorted the fliers over the pass and a wave of magic swept over them all, attracting the Venin. But I think it´s interesting, the original hatching grounds of Tairns ancestors was in Tyrrendor
Upon reread, I think violets second signet will have to do with word/rune magic. All her usages with andarnas power is with the runes. She states in battle brief PT 1 that words can get as deep as a sword. Words are also very adaptable if used right, which would fit with andarnas camouflage. Andarna choosing her for having the mind of a scribe and the heart of a rider. She will, with practice and control, be able to recreate colonel Mauri's rune magics. Which Xaden says have never been done since. Also with venin using rune magic as a way to imbue their wyvern might have a place in stopping all the wyvern at one time.
Around 1:18/1:19 - I think that those in Aretia do know more because Violet offhandedly tells Felix about Andarna’s time stopping ability despite it needing to be SUCH a big secret in Basgiath … and Felix doesn’t even react.
I think Chantara is going to be important. Violet never actually goes despite it being mentioned 4 times. It’s where the temple of Zinhal is, that’s why it’s approved for second years to go there officially. As a side note everyone keeps talking about Malek, but I think if it is only 1 god that violet is connected to (in whatever way) it really might be Zihnal. And I’ll heavily encourage a reread of chapter 43 where she says “clearly I have prayed to the wrong god” and that’s when she prays to Dunne instead of Zihnal & it’s also when Luella dies.
Battle-Axe name is Kylynn - for the Archive 😊 it’s mentioned in Ch37 I think, when it’s discussed that the Assembly members take up “teaching” (Kylynn is exptected to do flight maneuvers with the cadets)
I think Brennan and Mira were raised to be riders under general sorrengail so even though their dad tried to teach them the lore they were raised under the propaganda. He raised Violet to seek truth and think beyond the teachings
In the next books, I think focus will be on raising the other wardstone properly again, and we KNOW this can only be done with another one of Andarna's den. But I would bet my money that their dad's lost/hidden notes on dragons is going to contain information about this den which will come full circle and help them in the end
Dad is deff venin for these reason: Violet says that her fathers heart gave out for the second time. I’m thinking that venin must channel/feed to stay alive and that papa sorrengail refused to feed after Brennan died and that’s how his heart gave out. We see Jack slipping after his dragon dies, then he feeds and regains strength. Lilith loved papa S despite him being a venin and he must have really wanted to be healed or, just die from power starvation because he was a “good” venin. Just like we see Violet in bed with Xaden, knowing he’s venin, but still good and wants to be healed. History is repeating itself.
I also think that Mommy Sorengail wore her hair short to possibly hide that her hair may have been just like Violet’s. And Lilith was worried that Violet keeping her hail long could give some of the truth away about what really happened when Lilith was pregnant…
Hey there, first time listening to your podcast. I loved the first book and I borrowed it from my library and listened to it 3 times. I recently finished Iron Flame and I don’t know if I’m prepared to listen to it again. There were so many things in this book that I did not clue in to as I’m watching your deep dive. The number one being the missive at the beginning of chapter 66!
45:12 not sure how much I believe that my following theory is true but always fun to theorise. What if Violet’s dad was venin before he died and Lillith was trying to save him when she got that note from Nolon that said that there is no cure, only control. If he was venin, he could have been the reason that Lillith had a ‘fever’ during her pregnancy because he was trying to control his power, and it got out of hand once or he accidentally touched her wrong during her pregnancy, unaware of his own power. He was described as being cryptic in the last months before he died and was being cryptic about venin (plus in fourth wing we know that the venin who was attacking Violet in the battle at the end of the book, was also being very cryptic to her) because he was trying to warn Violet what he was and the danger that was out there that no one in Navarre knew about because leadership was hiding it. If he was a venin and he was killed by leadership, maybe Lillith had a hand in his death by thinking it was an act of mercy before his soul became too corrupted and he would be too condemned to meet Malek when he died, so she kinda pulled a mercy-killing-assassination move on him so she could see him again when she died and neither of them had to live with the pain of seeing him slowly lose his soul. Also the venin seem to be very focused on Violet or aware of who she is at the very least (they seem to be obsessed with her especially in her dreams (which I don’t think are simply coincidental dreams, I think they might be a link to the venin through her mind and that’s how they communicate with her)) but maybe they are aware of her partly because of the fact that, while I don’t think she is part venin, she has the mark/scar that is her silver hair to show that she has been touched by a venin in some way previously. They are also aware of her because of the lightning that she wields which is one of the only things that can kill venin (which I don’t think is a coincidence knowing Rebecca Yarros), so what if her signet of lightning is partly because of the fact that she had some of her physical energy taken from her by venin magic/power when still growing in the womb, so she started life with less physical body power than most people (accounting for her chronic illness that everyone around her sees as a weakness), only to be one of the most powerful people at her core, because even before birth she had to overcome pain (she has said before that she lives in pain and is used to it so that makes her more formidable and powerful at the core of her being, having to be resilient and strong because she has had that extra struggle and edge since birth). Similarly she could be the one thing that can bring down venin permanently because of the fact that her hair could be a scar/mark from the venin themselves, because being marked by the venin that young could be why she is the only thing that has power over them (maybe they took her physical power but when they took it, they left some of their power behind that ended up becoming one of their only weaknesses)
Omg thank you for this Iron Flame. It confused me the first time reading it. So, listening to these episodes help me understand each chapters extra stuff I missed. ❤ 🎉
I think Lilith may have channeled while pregnant and instead of giving up some of her soul she gave up a piece of Violet which is why Violet's hair and may contribute to her general weakness
Couple things I hope to hear you guys comment on. Venin are immune to dragon fire but andarna gets the first dragon kill by biting the head off. Could tairn smash them with his tail? Jescinia faithfully transcribing violet and xaden fun times lol.
Also the word used when Andarna flamed the Venin before biting him was “roasting.” Did her fire actually do anything to him, because that’s not the verbiage used for Tairns in Resson?
I think Violet will be a type of intinzic because she always want and need to know all the info she can. And the reason she got such a strong signit like lightning is because she kept wanting to be stronger so that she could fit in with the other rider cadets.
What if her seeing things thru others eyes is her signet. It only happens thru her bonds w Xaden and the three dragons.. but she probably thinks that's normal and doesn't realize she can look thru eyes of others!!!
Love the Iron Flame deep dive, but it’s definitely a DEEP dive. It’s been 1:11 hours. You’ve been over 15 pages 😂😂😢. This podcast is a love hate relationship. I love the podcast but sleep is important too. I don’t mind that much, because I just love this series so much. The work you guys do is insane. Condos.
I believe that in the variety interview it mentioned that her tail changed when she had her first growth spurt but it was weird that it wasn't mentioned till the fight in the caves but I think this is just another example of show don't tell. I like to speculate that maybe she was curled around it and you just couldn't see it while she was dozing
The thing about Violets dad is, we don’t even know his name, which makes me think we might get a whole lot more info about him. Rebecca isn’t withholding information without planning something (Aetos and Garricks signet,…)
2:21:55 guys I can’t believe you didn’t mention the frost on the dais while they are telling what happened to them in Resson to Lillith - Violet specifically says frost blooms on the dais and once Lillith steps away it dissolves. Do you think that’s part of the general’s storm signet?
I think he knew they were out there listening because he knew how his silence wards only work with the doors closed and he intentionally left the door cracked open for this meeting. Brennan wasn't present for the meeting because he was with Violet when the meeting started I'm guessing.
When talking about Tarrin and separating his bond, remember it took a really long time for him to ever bond again. So Nayolen may have still had a bond, but he used it more and more and that's how it got severed from Tarin. It's a theory that he severed the bond but I think there could be something about him being "off line" while Nayolen and Tarin tried to fix their severed bond.
I also wonder about The Six, so far we only learned the name of two, but we also learn that there were some interesting relationship dynamics which are never elaborated… so I wonder if it will be slow reveals throughout the rest of the series
Pretty sure the Venin having/making Wyvern has to do with them “now having runes”. After Vi and fam left Corden from getting the Luminary, Vi and Mira went and inspected the down Wyvern. They had stones with runes on them inside the Wyvern. Someone has “given” them runes recently. Who gave them runes?!
In regards to Imogen being there for that initial confrontation with Dain; I don't think Imogen was there to quickly wipe Violet. She was there to quickly wipe Dain. Imogen's signet lets her wipe a recent memory. Most of Violet's damning memories, I would not call "recent" anymore given that they just flew 18 hours. However, whatever Dain sees if he had grabbed her would be recent for him.
Violets signet has to be the power to help other people. She conducts energy, but she also is like a battery and overheats if she doesn’t put that energy somewhere. What’s to say that her signet is not giving energy to other people? The opposite of a siphon. Violets need before she bonds at threshing is to help other people because her compassion is more than either of her siblings combined.
49:01 hi I just found you guys and am binging the Empyrean stuff. I’m sure someone has suggested this theory but I wonder if Nolan is the Sage Violet communicates with in her dreams. Maybe that is part of her bond with Tairn.
has anyone ever talked about Baide's eyes not being golden when they saw her at the wardstone?? just asking cause i haven't seen any mention of it anywhere 🤔
I don't know how to add a comment to a specific video time but about an 1:00:48 you say about Brennan being gay. I totally agree I think he is. But also wanted to point out that I love these books cause that are not throwing at us all the faminism and girl power and LGBTQ+... You can write a book, great one without all of this! 🔥 Also I love the fact that at one point in the book Rebecca wrote something in line "was so shocked like she just said the earth is flat" lolz 😂😂
At 58:53 , is it possible that the "us" meaning whoever was with Brennan, were saved by remnants of Andarna's den? She says that she is the last of her kind BUT what if that's not the case? What if Andarna's elders are in hiding, because of this crazy power they posses that they possibly deemed too dangerous to share with a rider again? Or because of conflict between the other dragon dens regarding their level of power? We know that "the one" along with the 6 were responsible for powering the wards, and the one/7th is part of Andarna's den. We don't know if the 7th was actually bonded, because only the dragons are necessary to power the wards, not their riders, but if that dragon WAS bonded, it begs the question if that is what created the downfall of the 7th dragon den. Could it be that there was a war between the riders because the 7th rider's signet was too powerful, and that it led to a civil war between the Empyrean on whether the 7th den are allowed to bond ever again? Maybe to reach an ultimatum or make peace, the Empyrean decided to exile the 7th den, but keep one of their eggs in the case that Navarre's wards were ever in danger... This would be so exciting because it means that there is this whole other ancient dragon species/den that live independently from the Empyrean, and the existance of riders, and they could be a crucial part to defeating venin. It makes sense because we know that Andarna's history will play a bigger part in battling venin, and the history of Navarre and the first riders, and probably also the 3 brothers from the Fables of the Barrens
I’m wondering if there’s only ever one of Andarnas species at a time. In Warricks journal he phrased it “six and the one.” So maybe there was only one of her lineage when the Venin were a large threat 600 years ago and then now that they’ve grown in ranks again.
@@lf1257That is a brilliant theory! I cannot wait for the following books bcs I am SO curious to know more about the history of the first 6 and the 7th den etc. Also the whole thing about the first 6 only being the first 6 SURVIVING dragon riders?! There were others before them that died for some reason and I just can not wait to find out more
@@m3diemensie662 the history surrounding the Empyrean and their inner workings is what I have been really wanting to learn, and hopefully there are more in the next book. Like, do the dragons have their own prophecies? Tairns “I know who and what you are” and constantly calling her Silver One makes me think so. And maybe the first successful 6 riders where only successful because the Empyrean were at risk. Like Violet asking for Codagh’s help with the ward stone in ch. 64 and she says “The Empyrean will end” and he agreed to help.
@@m3diemensie662 actually your theory may be right. I am currently rereading the conversation between her and Violet about her being a seventh species and Violet asked if she was willing to power the wardstone and Andarna replies with “It is why I was left behind” (Ch 64, ebook 864). So maybe the rest of her den left the continent but left an egg behind to power the wards again when the time was needed? See, now I need more on the dragons. If Andarna has a hatchling in the future, will it be like her or does she need to have another one of her own species to pass on the breed. There’s no half colors mentioned by Kaori, so what about Tairn and Sgaeyl? Obviously mating bonds don’t care about species types so is it a 50/50 chance whether they have a black or blue? Is it specific to follow the male or female? I need answers 😂
Yall mentioned the missive with the blue wax seal...I'm kind of getting Lilith vibes!!! Does anyone think Lilith has been playing double agent this whole time and maybe she didn't kill Fen Riorson?? It's quite obvious that she and violets dad were preparing her and her siblings for the war/something significant. Violets dad did research on the feathertails.... Then dropped it? He knew something about Andarna/the 7th breed. Someone told the sorrengails a prophecy or they somehow saw the future. I'm convinced Lilith has left clues for Violet in the next book.
2:24:07 I wonder if it was actually Varrish and not Colonel Aetos sending the assassins after those who fought at Resson because he was there and could have heard when Aetos said that to Xaden and Violet. Aetos could have done it because they bested him but Varrish was intrinsically evil and had a scapegoat with Aetos
1:01:23 so do we think the wyvern and venin being more active is due to Violet gaining power and they are rising up to fight her?? Someone can prophesize for sure!!!
This is super scary because if the bond between Xaden and Sagael eventually breaks then the lives of the 4 of them are no longer tethered and that could open a door to lose Xaden permanently 😢 man I hope they find a cure.
Okay I know this video isn’t the right place to share but I just had the thought: how does dragon fire not kill venin, but allergies can? At the end of Iron Flame, Violet is certain that Jack was a venin when they fought on the mat, and she took him out with orange juice, but then confessed what it was so healers saved him. Maybe he wouldn’t have died and that was some misdirection, but could it also mean that baby venin are easier to kill? What about the dude that attacks her on Assessment Day of her second year, or the infantry dudes on top of the residence? Don’t they all have red-rimmed eyes? Curious.
I was thinking about the allergy too smh, just bring some nuts to the next battle and throw them at the venin, who knows. Chances are as good as with the daggers
Maybe since they were humans to start with the need for air is still essential? He even said “are you trying to kill me” when offered an orange by another cadet so maybe he knew anaphylaxis could still kill him
I was listening to this and you guys asked “ how did Xaden know they were in the hall” and there’s a specific line that says “I’m pretty sure that’s an authentic poromish tapestry hanging across the hall from where Bodhi and Imogen stand in the open doorway” so he could probably see them lol and it also states meetings are open to whoever is wants to attend 31:42
Garrick is the distance wielder? This would explain how frequently they get to Aretia, his signet being classified and not mentioned, Xaden shooting Violet down when she suggests Xaden as a distance wielder while guessing his second signet, the minimal detail during the fight scenes on Garrick, and why in the shirtless fight scene from the first book that they are described at being very fast.
Also I know it’s glossed over but him taking responsibility for her loyalty and taking the mark for her I feel means more since it’s placed in a different location than the marked ones. Chapter 37 “I ghost my lips over the three-inch scar above his heart.” ❤❤
Violet wanted to know Xaden more than she wanted to know about the Revolution. She wanted to know who HE was, she wanted him to say things because he wanted her to know like he did in the letters so much so that as soon as Violet finds out everything and Xaden asks her if she wants to know about his father's or his grandfather's or the Revolution, Violet asks about Xaden's mother, who apparently has nothing to do with the Revolution. Violet wanted to know who Xaden was as a person and she never got mad that he didn't say the things that were said in the Assembly
@@anushagowda738 and if she knows who he really is as a person she will trust him even if he has to keep secrets about the Revolution just like he wanted her to trust him at the beginning of the book. I don't understand anyone who criticizes Violet in this book. Would you stay with a person who says they will never be completely honest with you and you just have to trust that person even though that person doesn't make it easy to get to know them?
@@julianaaraujo7928 dammn right and they just want violet to stay with person who keep secrets and doesn't tell it to her even if it affects her directly.
My complaint was she was a little slower putting things together in this book like why are we just ignoring the 6 and the 1 until we see the other version which says 7 why did it take so long to guess Xaden second signet how many times have you said I didn't think I said that out loud I think he is just using the shadows hear secrets as a cover for his actual abilities
@@dawnburks1832 because I think she didn't know about the second signet until Sloane said it in the cave because she only found out in this book that Xaden's grandfather was a rider. And Violet always thought it was because of their bond that sometimes she said things and he knew it right away without her sometimes saying it out loud. the 6 thing was because Rebecca wasn't going to release this information halfway through the book so Violet could only find out at the end
It does state in one of the books how violet thought her mom was a venin because of how her eyes looked, but they brushed it off like she was “tired.” If her mom was any part venin which caused Violet to have the physical features then her mother could have done things to help prevent showing anything about being a venin since Nolin told her there is no cure only control. I also feel like this will help Xaden as he tries to find control.
In chapter two when Violet and Brennan are talking about wyverns and the book of fables Violet thinks to herself that’s she’s glad Xaden warded her room so the book is still safe. Does that mean that if they actually did die that Violet’s room at Basgiath would be permanently warded and just not accessible ever again? Or do wards go away when someone dies? But if that’s true then I guess they wouldn’t have been put on the death role…? This is my current thought rabbit hole.
1:09:37 for me they are six; so... - Liam saw 4 purple tunics (Firts gaze) - Garrick confirm 4 venin (in the middle) all purple - Violet saw 1 brown, 1 blue Deaths - Liam kill 1 purple - Violet kill 1 blue - Tairn say there's 3 deaths venins at this point; after Liam's death *Recap 2 purple one blue - Violet kill the leader; at the end with the lightning **Recap 3 purple one blue - Xaden kill the last one ***Recap 4 purple one blue That sum 5; and the missing one most be the brown one (the master? who disappear in from of Garrick) ps. i'm kinda obsessed with this books...jeje
Okay, PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong...but I don't think he emptied Athebyne for War Games (at least not really). I thought their actual War Games post was a thing, but Aetos sent them to Athebyne as a trap. Athebyne was emptied (not of civilians, but of riders and infantry and whatnot...the people he "cares" about and needs to remain in control of) so that no one would report back about venin existing. The Marked Ones were sent to Athebyne, which had a lure for venin, to die silently, NOT for War Games. Right?! It was either "protect these Poromiel civilians ("enemies")", which he assumed would kill them, or "go to X post for War Games and leave these people to die".
It definitely was a mission to send them to their death under the guise of war games. The missive in her moms office in Fourth Wing was requesting reinforcements for Athebyne, otherwise they would have to abandon it. Makes me wonder it was already abandoned before war games so it was a convenient location for him to lure to and Lilith was unaware, or he took advantage of the already struggling outpost and moved them without her knowledge
@2:12:13 i think Xaden is more of a stoner than a drinker. his first kiss with Vi was when she found him smoking churam, which on my first read i was like "oh this world's version of pot, cool" but he said it weakens bonds (helps him shield out sgaeyl's horniness when she was sleeping with Tairn) It's likely that it is a main ingredient in the elixir that leadership made to sever riders from their signets and communicating with them. Tairn tells violet that he could sense her, but could not communicate with her as if she was lost in a vale of smoke (if i remember correctly). It is likely what is in the elixir to keep venin like jack at bay as well. we know that Yarros loves giving us everything up front and in a way that it seems like small details to pad her world building, but low and behold, its actually important (dain touches, venin/wyvern reveal, xaden's second signet, violet seeing Jack's friend happily go into the infirmary after describing her as "she was really close to Jack last year, I wonder who she is visiting at this hour?"... to name a few things) Xaden smoking it could also help him keep his Second signet at bay or help dull it out to keep him sane. we dont know how/when it kicked in and hw he managed to keep it a secret with just himself and sgaeyl. he could have started to use it to self medicate like a lot of people do with weed or harder drugs irl.
I have a question about Melgren´s signet: How does it work? Xaden says Violet has no rebellion mark to hide her actions from Melgren. But this would only work if there was a battle, if I got that right? Why doesn´t leadership know about Aretia being rebuild? I guess there wouldn´t be much fighting. Are they just ignoring it because they think it´s irrelevant?
I was crying not because Lilith died but for violet because her mother was dying in front of her (another person dying to protect her and she was helpless)
On the dais they are fixing the death roll and all the riders are probably talking to each other as they wait. Which is why they make a call to the formation being called back into order
so everyone is saying that naolin couldn't be a venin bc what would become of the bond with tairn, BUT i love this theory bc the parallel between naolin/brennan and xaden/violet would be immaculate so WHAT IF naolin's bond with tairn broke because he requested to be killed OR WORSE brennan had to "mercy" kill him before he had the chance to lose more of his soul!? how gut wrenching would that be 😭
I agree, especially because she has the mind of a scribe, I think of them as asking questions and learning but she didn’t ask the questions or the right ones.
i had the same thought that Lilith was venin!! there’s so many possible hints but the thing that really convinced me was in fourth wing when violet is telling that story about when she was a kid and Lilith came home with red eyes or something like that, and it’s played off as a joke, but what if that was a hint? if the “lower level” venin don’t always have the red rim then she’d be able to hide it for a while as long as she didn’t use the power right?
Jack Barlowe had this red rim around his eye in that scene from Fourth Wing when he was fighting Violet on the mat. Wonder if he was a Venin in disguise there??
I'm saying this after some re-reads and basically ripping through everything about this series that is out there now. Violet is if not full venin atleast 1/2 venin because the fever her mother had caused her weakness right? and their father read them those stories well that is mentioned in a way that makes me think he may have re-searched about the fever to help lillith get better and give birth to a healthy baby because there's no way he just went along life when that happened becuase scribes crave knowledge so that fever may have made her half venin and she has that little call to the source which if she accepts her disease will be gone. But she may have just thought of that as her disease because of the pain and stuff and the silver hair we have some brief explanation on that but not enough that we can put it aside her lightning is also silver and the description of the scars given by those daggers are silver and when it comes to venin and wyvern and sage and maven there's something mentioned about silver. There is TOO much silver mentioned for it to it just be a coincedence. This may be reaching but I'm firmly on this camp and it makes me feel better about the xaden being venin thing. I also think that because it wasn't her choice but circumstance she bonded and Tairn decided that it's soo less it doesn't matter or that her dragons just don't know.
Love your work and both of your dedication!! I’m only up to this episode, but wondering if pronunciation of Naolin is in fact “Now-lin”? This may be more accurate, from a mandarin standpoint (although we don’t actually know his ethnicity, and this is my own assumption/projection). Especially keeping in mind that Yarros has been good with representation, and it wouldn’t be unlike her to have such a name in her book ☺️
I think Jack was still bonded to Baide but it is different. There was a line in Iron Flame were Violet said that Baide’s eyes were glazed over. Like Jack has some control over Baide. I also think that if Jake and Baide were not bonded Jack would not have been able to ride him. I also think it is weird that Jack was able to climb up Baide’s neck and kill him and Baide just let him and did not thrash around or anything.
I think he also instructed some unbondeds in book one to turn Venin to force a bond. I searched Caroline Ashton’s name in fourth wing and he said “I knew it would work” after she bonded Gleann. She’s also the one who was going into the infirmary with Nolan and fetched Jack during battle brief, which would make sense if she was Venin too
I wonder if Varrish was venin too? I can't remember which dagger was used to kill him but um, he did kind of have a strange relationship with his dragon. And he was overseeing Jack's recovery.
I’m undecided about Varrish. He doesn’t seem like the kind to take the serum so I feel like there would have been a mention of him draining her during her capture like Jack did on the mat. But he was killed with her alloy dagger so he’s not coming back
@@lf1257 I have a question. What do you think is the goal of the venins? I mean, let's say they win the war and they take over the entire Known World. Won't that mean they're going to suck the entire place eventually of its magic? Like, the entire continent would be like the Barrens. And so, what's the point of the war? If they win, they will eventually not have a place to draw their power from. Or are venins capable of living without drawing power from the earth? So, can they live as immortals and never have to draw magic from the earth after they win the war? They'll just ... Remain as the only living species in the Known World?
@@marieclaire9455 Main goal is definitely drawing power to sustain them. They become venin for more power and greed, and then the constant need to pull more is what drives them. Xaden mentions it on the last page “I feel it, the power beneath the college, the craving to sate the need for it.” The one Violet fought for Tecarus was withered from his time in the chest without channeling. They have the wyvern so they could travel to the Isles and any other lands there may be to drain there as well. Jack has proven that they can control dragons, I would assume if they can get close enough, they could take more. Long term: get enough breeding pairs, keep up the resources (like sheep) to keep the dragons alive, and they could have a continuous supply of power. The same could go for the humans, since the venin would be the more powerful of the two. They become the masters, drain humans for power, but keep enough alive as to create more supply. Since the riders and dragons replenish their own power with food and rest, the venin could probably find a way to siphon them without killing them, which may be another reason they want Violet since she’s so powerful. The long term possibilities are there, they just have to stay organized to keep it going. Sorry, this got a little dark 😳
So I think Violets dad knew about Andarna's special breed, I believe he and the empyrean planned together for Andarna to hatch so she could be there for Violet to defeat the venin and I think that's why her dad taught her more about the fables and Venin and wyvern than Mira and Brennan. Maybe with what happened to violets mom during pregnancy, they knew she would be special and have the abilities needed to be perfect rider for Andarna.
i have an appointment to get a dragon tattoo! im doing the relic they gave violet on her back of the black and gold dragon! i vote still get your golden dragon tattoo!
Ok so I just reread chapters 1-6 before starting this episode and I wanted to post this Brennan quote, especially after watching the ew book club with Rebecca. " Knowing that she's bonded to Tairn, whose bonds gets deeper with each rider and whose previous bond was already so strong that Naolin's death nearly killed him?". This makes me think the theory of Naolin being venin, might not be true.
🤔 hmm I thought I the epigraph it definitely meant it cost her life trying to extend the wards but I was guessing she had a signet like Mira's and possibly burned out or was murdered by Leadership who didn't want to extend the wards to aretia
… about that epigraph with Nolon/Lilith - the only thing that makes me not agree with any of those theories … “There is only control.” This year is the year they came up with the magic/power blocking signet which is the only known matter of control (in Navarre. I presume there’s other methods in Poromiel given the literature).
I’m super late to this but what If to save Brennen.. Nolan channeled so much power from Tarin to the point of burn out but then pulled more turning Venin. I can’t imagine how much power it would take to resurrect someone. But what if in that moment his bond with Tarin broke then …
So if you don’t think violets dad was a venin - even for a little bit before he died… I have another theory for who Lilith was trying to cure… maybe it was Dains dad? For him to be Liliths second you would think that they were close at least at some point in their history… maybe he is a venin and she was trying to cure her friend?? -whether or not he actually knew about jt
About the "you're going to be the death of me" thing: In Fourth Wing, Rhi is the firts to say these words in the context of history class might be the death of her (chapter 5), so I thought it was just a saying and I avoided the theory that Violet is going to somehow get Xaden killed. In Iron Flame Rhi has a redness in her eyes, probablly because she cried after hearing that Liam is dead, I too don't think that she is a venin. But I do think Rhi is a character that sets examples like this for readers to get familiar with consepts, and though in her case the redness is nothing, in Xaden's it's: he's a venin now. So history class is not the death of her, but Violet might be the death of Xaden... Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but here is another point beside that the books are Jesinia writhing events from the past, and the recovered correspondence between Violet and Xaden in book 2 I do think that if Xaden does die it's going to be the end of the series, or just a reminder that if Violet dies so does he
At 33 minutes, you were talking about Zayden knowing that Violet and the others are standing at the door to the meeting. I don't think it is either of his powers. I think he has one of his daggers marked with a hearing tube and he overheard Violet and Imogen talking in the hallway.
I love the parallels in this book of Vi learning about her powers and her insecurities. As she is learning from Felix about the basics she's learning how to trust Xayden and piecing together why she has insecurities with him and others. To be fair they both are dropped in her lap at the same time and it's alottt to process 😂. This book was about growth and learning to trust herself, just *chefs kiss*.
I was BAWLING my eyes out when I was reading about Lilith at the end of the book. I don't know why other people weren't as impacted as me! I cried multiple times when I was reading Lililth's little breaks throughout the book. Her breaks could mean the death of her family by showing leadership she might not be as loyal as they think. She has to play that role, even with her children.
Maybe I just have my own history with a detached family, but those scenes highly impacted me as someone who isn't married or has kids.
I only teared up when Liam died but I bawled when Lilith died. I think it was the willingness to sacrifice herself and her dragon knowing she would die to protect her children that made it so impactful.
I also thought that Lilith’s character had a lot of depth and I was super affected by all her later scenes when she opens up and especially her death scene. I didn’t cry but it definitely got me so hard!!
I have a pet theory on why Riders are allowed to marry early. Of any quadrent, they would be the ones that would be able to pack up and go if they disagreed with how the situation was handled quickly and easily. So here's Lilith, all ready to brag about her new promotion to her husband in kids - and she finds out that they are the bad guys and dessertion would cause retaliation on her family. A family that would take time and coordination to get out - which would cause suspicion.
The extra cherry on top would be if this was when she came home with the red eyes, and her little baby was terrified of her.
As someone with estranged parents issues, that scene absolutely wrecked me. To learn that she wasn't as cold as we were led to believe, and then to have the possibility of a (somewhat) mended relationship between all of them ripped away, was devastating.
I knew Lilith was not the big bad from the beginning. I cried hard and long over that scene. Brennen never forgave her. Horrible
I think the animal death warning was more for the eviscerated sheep painting the grass red comments about Andarna 😂
Lol I didn't even think about that. I thought it was for the gryphon dying during the hike
Xaden being hurt each time Violet tells him she trusts him with her life is a callback to Fourth Wing where she woke up after being mended and told him: "Just because I believe you and am willing to fight with you doesn't mean I'll trust you with my heart again. " He is waiting and hoping for her to trust him fully (with her heart) again...
Yes, thank you! It’s like, “I trust you with my life, but not my heart”
Exactly, it’s another way of saying “my life is integral to your survival,” or whatever that exact quote was in the last chapter of Fourth Wing.
This! I also took it as in their lives depend on each other because of the bond but not actually trust
@@anag9409I agree - that’s how I took his disappointment.
With Naolin, it's kind of implied that he and Brennan dated (at least to me). Xaden becomes a venin because of his love for Violet, right? What if Naolin turned because of his love for Brennan? He saved his life, and the cost was his own soul? Like a complete parallel to Violet and Xaden. I don't know if I'm looking too deep into it but it's what makes the most sense to me?
I've thought from book one that Brennan and Noalin were in love. Noalin would do anything to save Brennan and when he needed extra power to save him. He chose to pull from the earth to save the man he loves.
36:08 When Felix says Aetos will not let you live with what you’ve seen, he doesn’t mean Dain… he’s talking about Dain’s dad!
About the line where Violet says she trusts Xaden with her life and why he is hurt/disappointed by this… I took it as her basically saying I only trust you to be self-serving and keep me alive to keep yourself alive. In this episode you talked about how trusting him with her life seems like a big deal because it’s a whole ass life but I’d argue that in this situation where his life is tied to her life it’s not as weighty a statement and she isn’t saying she trusts him with her life because she knows he loves her and wants to keep her safe. She’s saying I trust you with my life because if I die you die and you don’t want to die. That’s how I interpreted that part, at least
Super pedantic explanation, but for the epigraphs where Violet is listed as "Cadet", etc. I think we can safely assume that these are from items preserved in the archives. As someone with a MLS with Archival Management emphasis, if I were bringing items into a collection, part of how I would label items like the letters would be to identify where that person was in their military career when that item was created. Violet is a cadet, and Xaden is a lieutenant when the letters are written. She and Dain are cadets when translating the journal. Items created when they were at different ranks would reflect that (Ex./ letter excerpt from Lieutenant Violet Sorrengail to Colonel Mira Sorrengail). It's especially helpful when you don't have years on the items themselves and want to date them as best you can for organizing in the collection. Jesinia is a scribe at heart. She may rebel against Basgiath but she wouldn't just throw these items in a box and call it a day, especially they are trying to undo the damage done by previous generations and the misinformation campaign that was perpetrated. A proper, well-organized archive would be even more important in that case.
Also, we archivists tend to be a bit fanatical about our systems. And I feel Jesenia is an archivist (scribe) at her core. *These items Matter*.
*See also "Lieutenant Colonel" in the epigraph vs. "Colonel" in the story itself
Re: 50:00 mark, I don't think the bonds break when they turn venin. In chapter sixty there are two lines. First one when jack says " How easily the energy she bonded us with is replaced?" meaning jack was using venin energy to replace the one bonding them, I don't think dragons themselves can sever the bond. Second line from the same chapter is "Jack's motions grow weaker, his breath more labored, just as Liam's had been". Killing his dragon almost killed jack, he somehow managed to use energy to keep himself alive, but i wonder if it's permenant solution, or something he activly has to keep on doing. So if Naolin is alive, I think only he could have severed to bond with Tairn, not the other way around, it's possible Tairn doesn't even know he's alive. I'm not sure I like the idea of Tairn lying to Violet again
I just love listening to you guys! I feel like I’m talking to a friend about this series. Loooots of love to you guys!
I think his shadows don't actually hear things I think that's how he covers how he knows things he shouldn't to protect his intensic ability
YES! Totally agree!
It’s canon for me that Jesinia is pissed at Brennan and writing him dumber
Unpopular opinion. I don't think Naolin is alive. Baide kept the secret of Jack being alive from the other dragons, which to me means that the rider bond is still in place because "nothing is stronger than the rider bond except the mate bond". And from what we can tell, Jack didn't become a Venin until after Threshing. Which means, if Naolin was still alive Tairn wouldn't have been able to bond with Violet and he would know Naolin is still alive and is a Venin. Even if Tairn somehow broke the rider bond with Naolin, I don't think he would keep that secret from Violet given what he says to her at the end of Fourth Wing and with all of the secrets being kept by Xaden and Sgaeyl.
I think Lilith was possibly stabbed by the same poison blade that Violet was, given her reaction when she finds out, and that's the 'sickness' that drained Violet while she was pregnant. I also think Papa Sorrengail was killed for what he knew and the research he was doing on feathertails which has mysteriously disappeared and I believe has to do with Andarna and why she chose to wait to hatch for Violet. Given he was a scribe and everything he knew, I don't think he would become a Venin willingly.
Yes about all of these thoughts!
Maybe Naolin turned Venin and later died, finally making him available to bond Violet since it took him so long to be ready for a new rider?
I wonder if Naolin turned and Tarin killed him.
I agree. I don't think that they can bond again if the previous rider is still alive. I mean Tairn is is Tairn, but still I don't think so.
Re: Violet knowing more than the revolution about venin and wyvern, I'm not that surprised because she has an illegal fables book given to her by her father that is banned all across Navarre. It also seems Brenna and Violet are not close in age (we assume about a decade apart), so he wouldn't be around her when her father was reading her bedtime fables that she has read a million times. Even Jesinia could not find anything on them, so I can see how this is a new development for much of the revolution. It also seems as if it very much depends on the region, as we note Rhiannon had a similar fable growing up, but Ridoc and Sawyer didn't. We also know Poromiel knew a lot more about the venin and wyvern, but as Navarre had its borders closed for many years, we cannot say how much Poromiel shared with Navarre and the Tyrrish as a whole.
Can I just say, I just finished Iron Flame and I’m so glad I found your podcast 🔥🔥🔥❤️
Re-read and watching this alongside before Onyx Storm drops. The countdown has begun, godspeed everyone 😅
I went silent on social media when I got the book so I didn't get any spoilers. Love this podcast.cant wait for the next episode ❤❤❤❤
When I heard the dedication, I had to pause it, sat on the floor and cried for 10 minutes.
Thank you so much ladies! It is always a pleasure spending time with you.
I don't think there were any hatchlings in the Valley because it was such a big deal when the first one hatched. That was when Violet and her squad escorted the fliers over the pass and a wave of magic swept over them all, attracting the Venin. But I think it´s interesting, the original hatching grounds of Tairns ancestors was in Tyrrendor
Upon reread, I think violets second signet will have to do with word/rune magic. All her usages with andarnas power is with the runes. She states in battle brief PT 1 that words can get as deep as a sword. Words are also very adaptable if used right, which would fit with andarnas camouflage. Andarna choosing her for having the mind of a scribe and the heart of a rider. She will, with practice and control, be able to recreate colonel Mauri's rune magics. Which Xaden says have never been done since. Also with venin using rune magic as a way to imbue their wyvern might have a place in stopping all the wyvern at one time.
Around 1:18/1:19 - I think that those in Aretia do know more because Violet offhandedly tells Felix about Andarna’s time stopping ability despite it needing to be SUCH a big secret in Basgiath … and Felix doesn’t even react.
I think Chantara is going to be important. Violet never actually goes despite it being mentioned 4 times. It’s where the temple of Zinhal is, that’s why it’s approved for second years to go there officially.
As a side note everyone keeps talking about Malek, but I think if it is only 1 god that violet is connected to (in whatever way) it really might be Zihnal. And I’ll heavily encourage a reread of chapter 43 where she says “clearly I have prayed to the wrong god” and that’s when she prays to Dunne instead of Zihnal & it’s also when Luella dies.
Battle-Axe name is Kylynn - for the Archive 😊 it’s mentioned in Ch37 I think, when it’s discussed that the Assembly members take up “teaching” (Kylynn is exptected to do flight maneuvers with the cadets)
I think Brennan and Mira were raised to be riders under general sorrengail so even though their dad tried to teach them the lore they were raised under the propaganda. He raised Violet to seek truth and think beyond the teachings
In the next books, I think focus will be on raising the other wardstone properly again, and we KNOW this can only be done with another one of Andarna's den. But I would bet my money that their dad's lost/hidden notes on dragons is going to contain information about this den which will come full circle and help them in the end
Agree!!!
Dad is deff venin for these reason: Violet says that her fathers heart gave out for the second time. I’m thinking that venin must channel/feed to stay alive and that papa sorrengail refused to feed after Brennan died and that’s how his heart gave out. We see Jack slipping after his dragon dies, then he feeds and regains strength. Lilith loved papa S despite him being a venin and he must have really wanted to be healed or, just die from power starvation because he was a “good” venin. Just like we see Violet in bed with Xaden, knowing he’s venin, but still good and wants to be healed. History is repeating itself.
I also think that Mommy Sorengail wore her hair short to possibly hide that her hair may have been just like Violet’s. And Lilith was worried that Violet keeping her hail long could give some of the truth away about what really happened when Lilith was pregnant…
Hey there, first time listening to your podcast. I loved the first book and I borrowed it from my library and listened to it 3 times. I recently finished Iron Flame and I don’t know if I’m prepared to listen to it again. There were so many things in this book that I did not clue in to as I’m watching your deep dive. The number one being the missive at the beginning of chapter 66!
2:17:49 potential “you are not just a weapon, you are the weapon” moment foreshadowing..?
THE weapon was definitely too specific to be glossed over
45:12 not sure how much I believe that my following theory is true but always fun to theorise. What if Violet’s dad was venin before he died and Lillith was trying to save him when she got that note from Nolon that said that there is no cure, only control. If he was venin, he could have been the reason that Lillith had a ‘fever’ during her pregnancy because he was trying to control his power, and it got out of hand once or he accidentally touched her wrong during her pregnancy, unaware of his own power. He was described as being cryptic in the last months before he died and was being cryptic about venin (plus in fourth wing we know that the venin who was attacking Violet in the battle at the end of the book, was also being very cryptic to her) because he was trying to warn Violet what he was and the danger that was out there that no one in Navarre knew about because leadership was hiding it. If he was a venin and he was killed by leadership, maybe Lillith had a hand in his death by thinking it was an act of mercy before his soul became too corrupted and he would be too condemned to meet Malek when he died, so she kinda pulled a mercy-killing-assassination move on him so she could see him again when she died and neither of them had to live with the pain of seeing him slowly lose his soul. Also the venin seem to be very focused on Violet or aware of who she is at the very least (they seem to be obsessed with her especially in her dreams (which I don’t think are simply coincidental dreams, I think they might be a link to the venin through her mind and that’s how they communicate with her)) but maybe they are aware of her partly because of the fact that, while I don’t think she is part venin, she has the mark/scar that is her silver hair to show that she has been touched by a venin in some way previously. They are also aware of her because of the lightning that she wields which is one of the only things that can kill venin (which I don’t think is a coincidence knowing Rebecca Yarros), so what if her signet of lightning is partly because of the fact that she had some of her physical energy taken from her by venin magic/power when still growing in the womb, so she started life with less physical body power than most people (accounting for her chronic illness that everyone around her sees as a weakness), only to be one of the most powerful people at her core, because even before birth she had to overcome pain (she has said before that she lives in pain and is used to it so that makes her more formidable and powerful at the core of her being, having to be resilient and strong because she has had that extra struggle and edge since birth). Similarly she could be the one thing that can bring down venin permanently because of the fact that her hair could be a scar/mark from the venin themselves, because being marked by the venin that young could be why she is the only thing that has power over them (maybe they took her physical power but when they took it, they left some of their power behind that ended up becoming one of their only weaknesses)
The venin theory at the end almost sounds like Voldemort leaving his magical signature on Harry. So cool
Omg thank you for this Iron Flame. It confused me the first time reading it. So, listening to these episodes help me understand each chapters extra stuff I missed. ❤ 🎉
Yesss! We can’t get enough of the Empyrean Series ❤️🔥
I think Jack and Baide were still bonded but he decided to channel so much earthly power he could control his dragon
I think Lilith may have channeled while pregnant and instead of giving up some of her soul she gave up a piece of Violet which is why Violet's hair and may contribute to her general weakness
Couple things I hope to hear you guys comment on. Venin are immune to dragon fire but andarna gets the first dragon kill by biting the head off. Could tairn smash them with his tail?
Jescinia faithfully transcribing violet and xaden fun times lol.
Also the word used when Andarna flamed the Venin before biting him was “roasting.” Did her fire actually do anything to him, because that’s not the verbiage used for Tairns in Resson?
I always read Naolin as being older (50-60s), but I love the theory that he was younger and had a "connection" to Brennan!!
I think Violet will be a type of intinzic because she always want and need to know all the info she can. And the reason she got such a strong signit like lightning is because she kept wanting to be stronger so that she could fit in with the other rider cadets.
What if her seeing things thru others eyes is her signet. It only happens thru her bonds w Xaden and the three dragons.. but she probably thinks that's normal and doesn't realize she can look thru eyes of others!!!
@@jzig77 I didnt think of that that would make sense
Love the Iron Flame deep dive, but it’s definitely a DEEP dive. It’s been 1:11 hours. You’ve been over 15 pages 😂😂😢. This podcast is a love hate relationship. I love the podcast but sleep is important too.
I don’t mind that much, because I just love this series so much. The work you guys do is insane. Condos.
I believe that in the variety interview it mentioned that her tail changed when she had her first growth spurt but it was weird that it wasn't mentioned till the fight in the caves but I think this is just another example of show don't tell. I like to speculate that maybe she was curled around it and you just couldn't see it while she was dozing
The thing about Violets dad is, we don’t even know his name, which makes me think we might get a whole lot more info about him. Rebecca isn’t withholding information without planning something (Aetos and Garricks signet,…)
I LOVE YOUR PODCAST!!! ALL THE LOVE FROM SOUTH AFRICA!!!
2:21:55 guys I can’t believe you didn’t mention the frost on the dais while they are telling what happened to them in Resson to Lillith - Violet specifically says frost blooms on the dais and once Lillith steps away it dissolves. Do you think that’s part of the general’s storm signet?
Yes! It was part of the original outline but we had to cut a few smaller-nod things. But loves that part!
This literally made my week!
I think he knew they were out there listening because he knew how his silence wards only work with the doors closed and he intentionally left the door cracked open for this meeting.
Brennan wasn't present for the meeting because he was with Violet when the meeting started I'm guessing.
When talking about Tarrin and separating his bond, remember it took a really long time for him to ever bond again. So Nayolen may have still had a bond, but he used it more and more and that's how it got severed from Tarin. It's a theory that he severed the bond but I think there could be something about him being "off line" while Nayolen and Tarin tried to fix their severed bond.
I also wonder about The Six, so far we only learned the name of two, but we also learn that there were some interesting relationship dynamics which are never elaborated… so I wonder if it will be slow reveals throughout the rest of the series
Pretty sure the Venin having/making Wyvern has to do with them “now having runes”. After Vi and fam left Corden from getting the Luminary, Vi and Mira went and inspected the down Wyvern. They had stones with runes on them inside the Wyvern. Someone has “given” them runes recently. Who gave them runes?!
In regards to Imogen being there for that initial confrontation with Dain; I don't think Imogen was there to quickly wipe Violet. She was there to quickly wipe Dain. Imogen's signet lets her wipe a recent memory. Most of Violet's damning memories, I would not call "recent" anymore given that they just flew 18 hours. However, whatever Dain sees if he had grabbed her would be recent for him.
Violets signet has to be the power to help other people. She conducts energy, but she also is like a battery and overheats if she doesn’t put that energy somewhere. What’s to say that her signet is not giving energy to other people? The opposite of a siphon. Violets need before she bonds at threshing is to help other people because her compassion is more than either of her siblings combined.
49:01 hi I just found you guys and am binging the Empyrean stuff. I’m sure someone has suggested this theory but I wonder if Nolan is the Sage Violet communicates with in her dreams. Maybe that is part of her bond with Tairn.
I think the animal death warning was probably more for the death of the Gryphon Cibbe after Luella died.
has anyone ever talked about Baide's eyes not being golden when they saw her at the wardstone?? just asking cause i haven't seen any mention of it anywhere 🤔
I don't know how to add a comment to a specific video time but about an 1:00:48 you say about Brennan being gay. I totally agree I think he is. But also wanted to point out that I love these books cause that are not throwing at us all the faminism and girl power and LGBTQ+... You can write a book, great one without all of this! 🔥 Also I love the fact that at one point in the book Rebecca wrote something in line "was so shocked like she just said the earth is flat" lolz 😂😂
At 58:53 , is it possible that the "us" meaning whoever was with Brennan, were saved by remnants of Andarna's den? She says that she is the last of her kind BUT what if that's not the case? What if Andarna's elders are in hiding, because of this crazy power they posses that they possibly deemed too dangerous to share with a rider again? Or because of conflict between the other dragon dens regarding their level of power?
We know that "the one" along with the 6 were responsible for powering the wards, and the one/7th is part of Andarna's den. We don't know if the 7th was actually bonded, because only the dragons are necessary to power the wards, not their riders, but if that dragon WAS bonded, it begs the question if that is what created the downfall of the 7th dragon den.
Could it be that there was a war between the riders because the 7th rider's signet was too powerful, and that it led to a civil war between the Empyrean on whether the 7th den are allowed to bond ever again? Maybe to reach an ultimatum or make peace, the Empyrean decided to exile the 7th den, but keep one of their eggs in the case that Navarre's wards were ever in danger...
This would be so exciting because it means that there is this whole other ancient dragon species/den that live independently from the Empyrean, and the existance of riders, and they could be a crucial part to defeating venin. It makes sense because we know that Andarna's history will play a bigger part in battling venin, and the history of Navarre and the first riders, and probably also the 3 brothers from the Fables of the Barrens
I’m wondering if there’s only ever one of Andarnas species at a time. In Warricks journal he phrased it “six and the one.” So maybe there was only one of her lineage when the Venin were a large threat 600 years ago and then now that they’ve grown in ranks again.
@@lf1257That is a brilliant theory! I cannot wait for the following books bcs I am SO curious to know more about the history of the first 6 and the 7th den etc. Also the whole thing about the first 6 only being the first 6 SURVIVING dragon riders?! There were others before them that died for some reason and I just can not wait to find out more
@@m3diemensie662 the history surrounding the Empyrean and their inner workings is what I have been really wanting to learn, and hopefully there are more in the next book. Like, do the dragons have their own prophecies? Tairns “I know who and what you are” and constantly calling her Silver One makes me think so.
And maybe the first successful 6 riders where only successful because the Empyrean were at risk. Like Violet asking for Codagh’s help with the ward stone in ch. 64 and she says “The Empyrean will end” and he agreed to help.
@@m3diemensie662 actually your theory may be right. I am currently rereading the conversation between her and Violet about her being a seventh species and Violet asked if she was willing to power the wardstone and Andarna replies with “It is why I was left behind” (Ch 64, ebook 864). So maybe the rest of her den left the continent but left an egg behind to power the wards again when the time was needed?
See, now I need more on the dragons. If Andarna has a hatchling in the future, will it be like her or does she need to have another one of her own species to pass on the breed. There’s no half colors mentioned by Kaori, so what about Tairn and Sgaeyl? Obviously mating bonds don’t care about species types so is it a 50/50 chance whether they have a black or blue? Is it specific to follow the male or female? I need answers 😂
@@lf1257 Literally I'm already running out of patience, I just need to know EVERYTHING🥲
Every HP parallel you mentioned, it was like you were reading my mind
The missive to Sorrengail ****does not say the world venin***** it could be about curing Violet. Or her dad’s heart problems. Or something unknown.
Yall mentioned the missive with the blue wax seal...I'm kind of getting Lilith vibes!!! Does anyone think Lilith has been playing double agent this whole time and maybe she didn't kill Fen Riorson?? It's quite obvious that she and violets dad were preparing her and her siblings for the war/something significant. Violets dad did research on the feathertails.... Then dropped it? He knew something about Andarna/the 7th breed. Someone told the sorrengails a prophecy or they somehow saw the future. I'm convinced Lilith has left clues for Violet in the next book.
Remember the Venin had Ruins inside their wyverns so they clearly use ruins as well.
2:24:07 I wonder if it was actually Varrish and not Colonel Aetos sending the assassins after those who fought at Resson because he was there and could have heard when Aetos said that to Xaden and Violet. Aetos could have done it because they bested him but Varrish was intrinsically evil and had a scapegoat with Aetos
1:01:23 so do we think the wyvern and venin being more active is due to Violet gaining power and they are rising up to fight her?? Someone can prophesize for sure!!!
This is super scary because if the bond between Xaden and Sagael eventually breaks then the lives of the 4 of them are no longer tethered and that could open a door to lose Xaden permanently 😢 man I hope they find a cure.
I think the dragons are more in danger/at risk with this. I don't think she will kill Xaden or Violet
Okay I know this video isn’t the right place to share but I just had the thought: how does dragon fire not kill venin, but allergies can? At the end of Iron Flame, Violet is certain that Jack was a venin when they fought on the mat, and she took him out with orange juice, but then confessed what it was so healers saved him. Maybe he wouldn’t have died and that was some misdirection, but could it also mean that baby venin are easier to kill? What about the dude that attacks her on Assessment Day of her second year, or the infantry dudes on top of the residence? Don’t they all have red-rimmed eyes? Curious.
I was thinking about the allergy too smh, just bring some nuts to the next battle and throw them at the venin, who knows. Chances are as good as with the daggers
Maybe since they were humans to start with the need for air is still essential? He even said “are you trying to kill me” when offered an orange by another cadet so maybe he knew anaphylaxis could still kill him
I was listening to this and you guys asked “ how did Xaden know they were in the hall” and there’s a specific line that says “I’m pretty sure that’s an authentic poromish tapestry hanging across the hall from where Bodhi and Imogen stand in the open doorway” so he could probably see them lol and it also states meetings are open to whoever is wants to attend 31:42
Garrick is the distance wielder? This would explain how frequently they get to Aretia, his signet being classified and not mentioned, Xaden shooting Violet down when she suggests Xaden as a distance wielder while guessing his second signet, the minimal detail during the fight scenes on Garrick, and why in the shirtless fight scene from the first book that they are described at being very fast.
Also I know it’s glossed over but him taking responsibility for her loyalty and taking the mark for her I feel means more since it’s placed in a different location than the marked ones. Chapter 37
“I ghost my lips over the three-inch scar above his heart.” ❤❤
Violet wanted to know Xaden more than she wanted to know about the Revolution. She wanted to know who HE was, she wanted him to say things because he wanted her to know like he did in the letters so much so that as soon as Violet finds out everything and Xaden asks her if she wants to know about his father's or his grandfather's or the Revolution, Violet asks about Xaden's mother, who apparently has nothing to do with the Revolution. Violet wanted to know who Xaden was as a person and she never got mad that he didn't say the things that were said in the Assembly
Soo truee most people fail to understand that
@@anushagowda738 and if she knows who he really is as a person she will trust him even if he has to keep secrets about the Revolution just like he wanted her to trust him at the beginning of the book. I don't understand anyone who criticizes Violet in this book. Would you stay with a person who says they will never be completely honest with you and you just have to trust that person even though that person doesn't make it easy to get to know them?
@@julianaaraujo7928 dammn right and they just want violet to stay with person who keep secrets and doesn't tell it to her even if it affects her directly.
My complaint was she was a little slower putting things together in this book like why are we just ignoring the 6 and the 1 until we see the other version which says 7 why did it take so long to guess Xaden second signet how many times have you said I didn't think I said that out loud I think he is just using the shadows hear secrets as a cover for his actual abilities
@@dawnburks1832 because I think she didn't know about the second signet until Sloane said it in the cave because she only found out in this book that Xaden's grandfather was a rider. And Violet always thought it was because of their bond that sometimes she said things and he knew it right away without her sometimes saying it out loud. the 6 thing was because Rebecca wasn't going to release this information halfway through the book so Violet could only find out at the end
It does state in one of the books how violet thought her mom was a venin because of how her eyes looked, but they brushed it off like she was “tired.” If her mom was any part venin which caused Violet to have the physical features then her mother could have done things to help prevent showing anything about being a venin since Nolin told her there is no cure only control. I also feel like this will help Xaden as he tries to find control.
In chapter two when Violet and Brennan are talking about wyverns and the book of fables Violet thinks to herself that’s she’s glad Xaden warded her room so the book is still safe. Does that mean that if they actually did die that Violet’s room at Basgiath would be permanently warded and just not accessible ever again? Or do wards go away when someone dies? But if that’s true then I guess they wouldn’t have been put on the death role…? This is my current thought rabbit hole.
2:08 I'll never say Xaden Riorson without roaring his last name ever again.
Thanks Nicole 🤣
1:09:37 for me they are six; so...
- Liam saw 4 purple tunics (Firts gaze)
- Garrick confirm 4 venin (in the middle) all purple
- Violet saw 1 brown, 1 blue
Deaths
- Liam kill 1 purple
- Violet kill 1 blue
- Tairn say there's 3 deaths venins at this point; after Liam's death
*Recap 2 purple one blue
- Violet kill the leader; at the end with the lightning
**Recap 3 purple one blue
- Xaden kill the last one
***Recap 4 purple one blue
That sum 5; and the missing one most be the brown one (the master? who disappear in from of Garrick)
ps. i'm kinda obsessed with this books...jeje
Ohhh I've been waiting for this....
And now we need your college stories 😂
Those are going with us to the grave 😂
Okay, PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong...but I don't think he emptied Athebyne for War Games (at least not really). I thought their actual War Games post was a thing, but Aetos sent them to Athebyne as a trap. Athebyne was emptied (not of civilians, but of riders and infantry and whatnot...the people he "cares" about and needs to remain in control of) so that no one would report back about venin existing. The Marked Ones were sent to Athebyne, which had a lure for venin, to die silently, NOT for War Games. Right?! It was either "protect these Poromiel civilians ("enemies")", which he assumed would kill them, or "go to X post for War Games and leave these people to die".
It definitely was a mission to send them to their death under the guise of war games. The missive in her moms office in Fourth Wing was requesting reinforcements for Athebyne, otherwise they would have to abandon it. Makes me wonder it was already abandoned before war games so it was a convenient location for him to lure to and Lilith was unaware, or he took advantage of the already struggling outpost and moved them without her knowledge
Y’all had me at Shadow Daddy ❤
🤣🤣
Does anyone else think that the two new black dragons may not be black but actually like Andarna??
@2:12:13 i think Xaden is more of a stoner than a drinker. his first kiss with Vi was when she found him smoking churam, which on my first read i was like "oh this world's version of pot, cool" but he said it weakens bonds (helps him shield out sgaeyl's horniness when she was sleeping with Tairn)
It's likely that it is a main ingredient in the elixir that leadership made to sever riders from their signets and communicating with them. Tairn tells violet that he could sense her, but could not communicate with her as if she was lost in a vale of smoke (if i remember correctly). It is likely what is in the elixir to keep venin like jack at bay as well.
we know that Yarros loves giving us everything up front and in a way that it seems like small details to pad her world building, but low and behold, its actually important (dain touches, venin/wyvern reveal, xaden's second signet, violet seeing Jack's friend happily go into the infirmary after describing her as "she was really close to Jack last year, I wonder who she is visiting at this hour?"... to name a few things)
Xaden smoking it could also help him keep his Second signet at bay or help dull it out to keep him sane. we dont know how/when it kicked in and hw he managed to keep it a secret with just himself and sgaeyl. he could have started to use it to self medicate like a lot of people do with weed or harder drugs irl.
Drunk Dain, let's remember Violet said he used to be funny before, I bet he would be such a good drunk dude! 😂
I have a question about Melgren´s signet: How does it work? Xaden says Violet has no rebellion mark to hide her actions from Melgren. But this would only work if there was a battle, if I got that right? Why doesn´t leadership know about Aretia being rebuild? I guess there wouldn´t be much fighting. Are they just ignoring it because they think it´s irrelevant?
Melgren can't see anything involving a rebellion ruin that's why they outlawed groups of 3 or more being together
I cried the same amount with Lilith and Liam - I think you only get it if you have a fucked up relationship with your mom
I was crying not because Lilith died but for violet because her mother was dying in front of her (another person dying to protect her and she was helpless)
@@s_k_y100 ohhh that's a good insight. Might have to read that one off to my therapist. 😅
On the dais they are fixing the death roll and all the riders are probably talking to each other as they wait. Which is why they make a call to the formation being called back into order
so everyone is saying that naolin couldn't be a venin bc what would become of the bond with tairn, BUT i love this theory bc the parallel between naolin/brennan and xaden/violet would be immaculate so WHAT IF naolin's bond with tairn broke because he requested to be killed OR WORSE brennan had to "mercy" kill him before he had the chance to lose more of his soul!? how gut wrenching would that be 😭
I think there is something to the tact that Xaden keeps repeating over and over “ask questions” “ask questions” I will answer your questions 🤷🏻♀️
I agree, especially because she has the mind of a scribe, I think of them as asking questions and learning but she didn’t ask the questions or the right ones.
i had the same thought that Lilith was venin!! there’s so many possible hints but the thing that really convinced me was in fourth wing when violet is telling that story about when she was a kid and Lilith came home with red eyes or something like that, and it’s played off as a joke, but what if that was a hint? if the “lower level” venin don’t always have the red rim then she’d be able to hide it for a while as long as she didn’t use the power right?
Jack Barlowe had this red rim around his eye in that scene from Fourth Wing when he was fighting Violet on the mat. Wonder if he was a Venin in disguise there??
@@tinakaur4317 i think he was! i’d love to know when he actually turned
I'm saying this after some re-reads and basically ripping through everything about this series that is out there now. Violet is if not full venin atleast 1/2 venin because the fever her mother had caused her weakness right? and their father read them those stories well that is mentioned in a way that makes me think he may have re-searched about the fever to help lillith get better and give birth to a healthy baby because there's no way he just went along life when that happened becuase scribes crave knowledge so that fever may have made her half venin and she has that little call to the source which if she accepts her disease will be gone. But she may have just thought of that as her disease because of the pain and stuff and the silver hair we have some brief explanation on that but not enough that we can put it aside her lightning is also silver and the description of the scars given by those daggers are silver and when it comes to venin and wyvern and sage and maven there's something mentioned about silver. There is TOO much silver mentioned for it to it just be a coincedence. This may be reaching but I'm firmly on this camp and it makes me feel better about the xaden being venin thing. I also think that because it wasn't her choice but circumstance she bonded and Tairn decided that it's soo less it doesn't matter or that her dragons just don't know.
Where did you get the iron flame shirt
Love your work and both of your dedication!!
I’m only up to this episode, but wondering if pronunciation of Naolin is in fact “Now-lin”? This may be more accurate, from a mandarin standpoint (although we don’t actually know his ethnicity, and this is my own assumption/projection). Especially keeping in mind that Yarros has been good with representation, and it wouldn’t be unlike her to have such a name in her book ☺️
I think Jack was still bonded to Baide but it is different. There was a line in Iron Flame were Violet said that Baide’s eyes were glazed over. Like Jack has some control over Baide. I also think that if Jake and Baide were not bonded Jack would not have been able to ride him. I also think it is weird that Jack was able to climb up Baide’s neck and kill him and Baide just let him and did not thrash around or anything.
I think he also instructed some unbondeds in book one to turn Venin to force a bond. I searched Caroline Ashton’s name in fourth wing and he said “I knew it would work” after she bonded Gleann. She’s also the one who was going into the infirmary with Nolan and fetched Jack during battle brief, which would make sense if she was Venin too
I wonder if Varrish was venin too? I can't remember which dagger was used to kill him but um, he did kind of have a strange relationship with his dragon. And he was overseeing Jack's recovery.
I’m undecided about Varrish. He doesn’t seem like the kind to take the serum so I feel like there would have been a mention of him draining her during her capture like Jack did on the mat. But he was killed with her alloy dagger so he’s not coming back
@@lf1257 I have a question. What do you think is the goal of the venins? I mean, let's say they win the war and they take over the entire Known World. Won't that mean they're going to suck the entire place eventually of its magic? Like, the entire continent would be like the Barrens. And so, what's the point of the war? If they win, they will eventually not have a place to draw their power from. Or are venins capable of living without drawing power from the earth? So, can they live as immortals and never have to draw magic from the earth after they win the war? They'll just ... Remain as the only living species in the Known World?
@@marieclaire9455 Main goal is definitely drawing power to sustain them. They become venin for more power and greed, and then the constant need to pull more is what drives them. Xaden mentions it on the last page “I feel it, the power beneath the college, the craving to sate the need for it.” The one Violet fought for Tecarus was withered from his time in the chest without channeling.
They have the wyvern so they could travel to the Isles and any other lands there may be to drain there as well. Jack has proven that they can control dragons, I would assume if they can get close enough, they could take more. Long term: get enough breeding pairs, keep up the resources (like sheep) to keep the dragons alive, and they could have a continuous supply of power. The same could go for the humans, since the venin would be the more powerful of the two. They become the masters, drain humans for power, but keep enough alive as to create more supply. Since the riders and dragons replenish their own power with food and rest, the venin could probably find a way to siphon them without killing them, which may be another reason they want Violet since she’s so powerful.
The long term possibilities are there, they just have to stay organized to keep it going. Sorry, this got a little dark 😳
So I think Violets dad knew about Andarna's special breed, I believe he and the empyrean planned together for Andarna to hatch so she could be there for Violet to defeat the venin and I think that's why her dad taught her more about the fables and Venin and wyvern than Mira and Brennan. Maybe with what happened to violets mom during pregnancy, they knew she would be special and have the abilities needed to be perfect rider for Andarna.
i have an appointment to get a dragon tattoo! im doing the relic they gave violet on her back of the black and gold dragon! i vote still get your golden dragon tattoo!
where did they get there shirt from.?
Ok so I just reread chapters 1-6 before starting this episode and I wanted to post this Brennan quote, especially after watching the ew book club with Rebecca. " Knowing that she's bonded to Tairn, whose bonds gets deeper with each rider and whose previous bond was already so strong that Naolin's death nearly killed him?". This makes me think the theory of Naolin being venin, might not be true.
🤔 hmm I thought I the epigraph it definitely meant it cost her life trying to extend the wards but I was guessing she had a signet like Mira's and possibly burned out or was murdered by Leadership who didn't want to extend the wards to aretia
… about that epigraph with Nolon/Lilith - the only thing that makes me not agree with any of those theories … “There is only control.” This year is the year they came up with the magic/power blocking signet which is the only known matter of control (in Navarre. I presume there’s other methods in Poromiel given the literature).
I think the Wyvern are the Venin’s poor imitation of Dragons.
I’m super late to this but what If to save Brennen.. Nolan channeled so much power from Tarin to the point of burn out but then pulled more turning Venin. I can’t imagine how much power it would take to resurrect someone. But what if in that moment his bond with Tarin broke then …
So if you don’t think violets dad was a venin - even for a little bit before he died… I have another theory for who Lilith was trying to cure… maybe it was Dains dad? For him to be Liliths second you would think that they were close at least at some point in their history… maybe he is a venin and she was trying to cure her friend?? -whether or not he actually knew about jt
About the "you're going to be the death of me" thing:
In Fourth Wing, Rhi is the firts to say these words in the context of history class might be the death of her (chapter 5), so I thought it was just a saying and I avoided the theory that Violet is going to somehow get Xaden killed. In Iron Flame Rhi has a redness in her eyes, probablly because she cried after hearing that Liam is dead, I too don't think that she is a venin. But I do think Rhi is a character that sets examples like this for readers to get familiar with consepts, and though in her case the redness is nothing, in Xaden's it's: he's a venin now. So history class is not the death of her, but Violet might be the death of Xaden...
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but here is another point beside that the books are Jesinia writhing events from the past, and the recovered correspondence between Violet and Xaden in book 2
I do think that if Xaden does die it's going to be the end of the series, or just a reminder that if Violet dies so does he
At 33 minutes, you were talking about Zayden knowing that Violet and the others are standing at the door to the meeting. I don't think it is either of his powers. I think he has one of his daggers marked with a hearing tube and he overheard Violet and Imogen talking in the hallway.
There is no volume the last part of the video