The Death of Speedrunning
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Nothing is meant to last forever, but let's just savor the moment.
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Игры
Define death in regards to SMB1? Yes if the game is perfected they'll be no WRs... But why would it die? You can instead match it, Beat PRs or... or... see how many times you can match WR over a time spawn then in a row that for how long... Unlike ever other game mentioned SMB1 can remain a popular run for a VERY long time maybe ever.
So I actually really appreciate this question. I tried to stress in the video, and perhaps I could have done so more, that I wasn't using death as a signifying that no one would play SMB1 after someone achieves a perfect time. It was more so playing off the trope that when speedrunners achieve a really good time, they'll say the category or the game is dead. For instance, GreenSuigi said 16 Star is Dead when he set an incredible WR that will probably stand for a while, but in all likelihood will eventually be beaten if enough time is given. With SMB1, if someone matches the Human Theory TAS, there is an incredibly high chance that no one ever beats it; only a new strat or someone redefining what is possible for Humans can lead to a faster time. Again, I want to stress that SBM1 is one of the most incredible communities in speedrunning that only continues to push the meta forward--for instance, the technology being showcased on FlibidyDibidy's channel is nothing short of revolutionary. Its inclusion in this video was a play on achieving perfection both an incredible peak and also an end to a journey.
@@OtherRuns Ah ok yeah you should have just stated that and you have a point... Like some people define dead as "Not the most popular game" In general despite the fact if you can get into the match at any time you want means the game is very alive... But you do have a good point and the video's title is fine in that light it's just you did not state your thesis in the video nore did I or other commenter picked up on it... Still good video I did enjory it.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough 🤓
The thing is for everyone but the MOST dedicated speedrunners it's chasing that WR that drives them forward, the idea that maybe some day they'll stand at the top of the leaderboard not just "trying your best" and hitting PRs. In a game where the world record is all but solved that gives very few people incentive to pick it up and existing runners more incentive to drop it. I'm not saying there aren't people out there that think like you do, but they do not reflect a majority and THAT is what kills a community.
@@sungazercyan The vast majority aren’t so extra virginal that they are out trying to pull WRs. Don’t confuse most normal people for a minority of tryhards on Twitch.
Email is never delivered based on the user's date, the delivery server logs the time in UTC and displays it to the end user in their time zone. It would be insane to expect any company to ask the user "what is the time?" and then magically fudge that timestamp into their mail server, this is not how network protocols even work. How this was ever a debate or a question is top-tier gaslighting from a 2nd place runner trying to secure the throne, and incredible incompetence from the community/mods to not understand something as trivial as how email delivery works
100% this, it seems like dude got robbed of a WR by willful ignorance
This gets complicated when you start talking about webmail though - when the email shows up in the browser, what time does it use? The answer will need to be determined for this specific fly-by-night email server, which is unfortunately probably defunct now.
You do talk very authoritatively for missing the point of it being a web interface and not like a raw mail log
Okay so somewhat surprisingly that email service is still online. I just deliberately set my clock off by 5 minutes and sent myself an email, and it showed up using the server's time (although my time *zone*). Talking about email delivery is still a red herring, since it is still webmail, but it looks like it does indeed work as described.
@@nothayley Thanks for doing the legwork :D
I cannot wrap my head around humans having the ability to perform inputs as well as a TAS. Amazing.
Even more impressive is a game created with a limit so well even tas cannot outperform
One of the things the TAS community does for real-time runners is find ways to make time-saving techniques easier to execute. The RTA community repays the favor by offering advice on more large-scale issues like planning the best route through an overworld map.
Ever heard of geometry dash?
I have performed like a tas bot for a short duration. For me it took many failed attempts and what felt more like an altered state than something I can replicate.
The Runway level in Goldeneye 007 on 00 Agent is a prime example of the World Record run beating TAS. Goldeneye was certainly a pioneer for popularizing speedrunning with it being encouraged in-game to unlock cheats.
I really liked the part where you talked about The Death of Speedrunning
You die and get to ask one question so you ask “what’s the meaning of life?” And god looks at you and goes “So imagine a bus…”
Let's just clarify: This video isn't about speedrunning only becoming a memory in the future, it's just saying that older games end up shelved and the best speedrun will be decades old because nobody can compete, and with a ton of new technology, people don't care much about the older games anymore for the most part. The only people who dare to challenge old records are casual players who want to challenge themselves. It'll happen with Nuzlockes too. In the past, Nuzlockes weren't hardcore, just getting through one with two Pokemon alive was a miracle. Nowadays, there are so many Kazio-strength difficulty variants of Pokemon Nuzlockes that nobody remembers how the early ones went. Eventually, people will get bored of Nuzlockes and try to do Pokemon challenges that break your soul. I accidentally woke up to see Spikevegeta fail an IRON MON NUZLOCKE, THE MOST CHALLENGING NUZLOCKE EVER. When these challenges get so dull that you have to put a 1-hit badge on them, then chances are you are burned out of Pokemon and should retire it temporarily, until Generation 10. :(
It's that feeling that the people whom grew up with titles from the 1980s are the ones whom keep it alive from being forgotten. Nowadays, gamers are growing up in the mobile/multiplayer aspect, those from the 2000s onward, and the sucky part is, they see stuff from the 1990s and before as retro and old, even though they were once great games for the time being.
So I totally get where you're coming from. I can't imagine what it would be like in 2050 if we still run these games compared to the 2020s and before.
We're not on the spectrum. We understand.
I want to note that speedrunning isnt a competition but a group effort
@@SilentOnion It is a competition.
@@user-fe8gx3ie5v it is both
You’re telling me to get better Siglemic decided to strategically build up speed for 12 hours
“The biggest stars of yesterday are the sidewalks we walk down” - That was some of the deepest.
thought this was an april's fools joke when you started the video with billy murray
Not the bussss
tfw bus
We missed it :(
Now speedrunning must also remind me of my mortality
Instant like for Billy Murray. Glad some living people know of him.
Then he proceeds to call him a bad person simply for engaging in a practice that was considered ok back then. It was not right, but people thought differently back then and should be judged by the norms of their time.
Lol, this comment is why y’all wait till the video is over to comment
@@valemontgomery9401 Or we can just say f"ck that dipsh't and move on with life leaving their legacy in the trash where they belong.
@@valemontgomery9401He says "Maybe he was just a bad person." With the context the sentence is used in, it doesn't sound like he's directly calling him a bad person.
@@valemontgomery9401 “people though differently back then” is so fucking lazy. No racism was more acceptable out in the open. Believe it or not there were plenty of people who found minstrel shows racist at the time. Some white folks and basically every black folk living in America.
...when the elder scrolls music started playing i got distracted by that lmao
The first word in the video was "you've" The last word was "Death"
I actually knew and recognised billy murray
club penguin banned% is the funniest thing ive heard in a while
You know that’s funny you start the video off like that because I’ve actually known about Billy Murray for years and I even own one of his records on 78. The song I have a copy of is in pretty bad condition but I haven’t been able to find it anywhere else online. I uploaded it a while back but it’s interesting because it’s like my own little piece of lost media that I was able to find.
Checking in for the Billy Murray content. 🎶🎶
i was doing the 1f pausing thing for fun and i kept pausing on a frame where theres just the black circle, i had to check with frame by frame advance and i noticed a couple of the cycles appear as having no circle at all instead of the full green circle on the last frame, wich could be a little missleading. otherwise its a cool idea.
Thank you. He said how many can you get in a row and i was like... just one... :(
@@n4ttyyy when i was doing it i kept thinking i was pressing one frame too late or something it was kinda funny. simply suffering from success
Did you set your quality to 60fps?
Holy moly, Luigi's Mansion 3 the most meta concept of a horror game I've ever heard of.
Not even more than a few seconds into this video and Sly Cooper nostalgia kicked in
You managed to relate luigi's mansion to 1920's racism... great video!
honestly i might learn to speedrun smb1 just as a party trick. like yeah watch me beat mario in 5 mins lmao
I hear "Battle for Bikini Bottom: Rehydrated" & find myself expecting a Smash game with Spongebob battling Rehydrated Ganondorf.
That "some reason" of not capping fps is called good game design
It’s not, because the physics engine is tied to frame rate. Good game design would be uncapped fps with consistent physics at all frame rates.
@@psyduckismlg9977 I mean yeah, that's a given when you mention uncapped framerates
thank god, I can't wait for speedrunning to die 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I hadn't heard of the leaderboards for Rehydrated getting wiped, since I mostly follow the original bfbb.
What happened with that? Why? Is there a video on it?
He explained it in the video. The redid the rules so people would have to cap their frame rate at 60 fps. And since none of the runs abided by that they wiped it.
frozen double trouble is a great speedrun
🐪🐪
your video title is stupid clickbait.. for every game that loses interest there are 2 new games being picked up and more speedrunners emerge every day
speedrunning is not dying. while games and certain categories will die out, saying that speedrunning AS A WHOLE is dying is grossly untrue.
Yeah it's more like "The death of a speedrun scene." Which unlike this clickbait would get search views from people interested in the topic and maybe more recomands to.
he meant by SMB1 speedruns no one hasn't made those in a while
@@gamemaster2192 MB1 is still not perfected...there is potential.
As an SMB1 runner myself, this video was a great watch. Please keep making stuff like this!
I really enjoy video essays about speedrunning, especially when they touch on subjects I'm quite familiar with.
You’re wasting your time.
@@willissudweeks1050 I wouldn't consider it wasted time, I get to be part of a community that shares my interests.
Honestly, I'm not too surprised BfBB speedrunning "died".
The speedrunning scene belongs exclusively to SHiFT, and it has been that way for almost a decade. As far as I know, nobody has gotten a world record besides SHiFT in the past 10 years in any category at all.
I don't know anything about speed running. What's SHiFT?
@@Crono454 SHiFT is a person. The best speedrunner of Spongebob Squarepants: Battle for Bikini Bottom.
he's the only guy who really cares it seems like
Fuff had the record from March until July 2016, until SHiFT got it in July of that year after playing since April or so. Before that, Coel and Hazel had it
@@quickman1047 Yeah, I already knew about that stuff, I just exaggerated the time period SHiFT has been on top.
Saying SM64 speedrunning died when siglemic left is pure ignorance.
Maybe he meant that Siglemic's leave destined it to die?
@@cl0p38 the fact that it's still thriving like almost a decade later speaks otherwise.
Siglemic is a legend and he inspired people to pick up 120 stars speed run and players just push it beyond limits and are still pushing it. And thats only the 120 category , the others are still also work on.
@@henryreturns1397 Siglemic basically birthed the western sm64 RTA community, but it did not die when he retired.
There's plenty of people who joined during the cheese/puncay rivalry, or were inspired by SImply's struggle to nab a single record after being perpetually 3rd place for so long.
I mean we have weegee and suigi now. Weegee just got a massive 120 record from 5th place. Suigi swept the short categories and got the cleanest run ever performed in this game with his 16 star record.
The SM64 ABC community is making insane TAS magic happen all the time too.
The game is healthier than it's been since release, and it's in large part because of Siglemic, but sig was never destined to be the GOAT, only the pioneer. He did not kill the community, he passed the torch.
BFBB Rehydrated was never going to stick around lol. It was broken and rushed on purpose. It focused too hard on courting the speedrunning crowd with wow factor glitches, when speedrunners don't need to be so pandered to. THQ Nordic is also a really weird company, and not one I'd ever buy a game off of.
I think games shouldn't be buggy on purpose to pander. Its not interesting.
.
It also reminds me of pokemon SD/BP. On the day those games came out, a glitch hunter named RETIRE came out with a fascinating video outlining ACE discovery in the original D/P games. And it was completely overshadowed by BD/SP being broken games lol, but not broken in an interesting or compelling way. ACE in DP is interesting. A broken cash grab isn't.
Never expected to see Billy Murray in the video, he is a great singer.
First try 1 frame
“IM READY!!!”
It was a punch to the gut when one of my favorite speed games was used as the first example of a dead game lol. I think speedruns often have 2 types of communities, runners and viewers. I've watched and attempted runs of BFBB, but I only watch runs of Gran Turismo, and I only play runs of Devil Pie. I think it's possible for a game to be "dead" in terms of runners, but still have a loyal stream community (and vice versa).
The thing about zombies is that speedrunning was never the most popular way of playing it ‘competitively’ if you go for a place on the high round leaderboards you are faced with the exact opposite of a speedrun where u have a set amount of time and try to get as far into the game as possible
This was a very good video in terms of making different points and relating it back to speedrunning. Learned some things about other topics (like memento mori) that I never heard of, very well made 👍
Great video, really appreciate how you emphasized the effect siglemic had on speedrunning and twitch as a whole.
Bismuth I love how you’ve watched that video🔥
"for whatever reason the devs chose NOT to cap the frame rate to 60fps". Uhhhh yeah no shit lol. It's 2023, who still plays at 60 fps?
Ive been speedrunning for over 10 years playing games for over 20, ive ran over 100 different games.
this interactive example of hitting a one frame window is one of the best things i’ve ever seen in a speed running commentary video, and i watch a lot of speed running commentary videos. well done.
Feels like an emplemon video. I like it
"For whatever reason, developers chose to not cap the framerate at 60"
Hey, I wanted to say good work on the video! As an SMB1 runner I can admit that the world record is extremely close to perfection, and it would be really unlikely that it is beaten by anyone except for Niftski, Miniland or Nebula. After a lot of work, I was only able to get my sum of best to 4:54.831 (2 frames slower than WR) That being said, I don’t think that means the game is dead. The community is still really active when it comes to the sheer quantity of people getting better at the game every day. So far over 130 people have gotten a 4:57, which is what I would consider the benchmark to becoming good at any%. As the community goes on, I’m sure there’ll be some great things coming soon 😯
i just picked up the game!
Tree_05 just got a 4:54.8 too
If I could time travel to the future, one of the first things I'd do is check how low some of these speedrun times can get like a decade later.
I feel like oot is kind of similar. I watched Narcissa and others play that game everyday and when she had her famous “any% is dead” I hit that fatigue. When I went back years later the run was unrecognizable and the community had made a new classic category I think it was called. That run had such a satisfying play through that the new developments made it not as enjoyable to watch anymore.
lul cosmo was basically just a onetrick that got left behind as soon as the run got technical
@@ObscureGun if anything cosmo is closer to a pokemon name lmao
cosmoem
Lmao the huge "most replayed" spike right around the one frame green circle
This video is shockingly well made
I disagree, it’s disjointed and uninteresting
@@G-R-A-F-F I agree that it jumps around topics a lot, but I found it interesting in my opinion. There are games that get too optimized or simplified that sort of "kill" the speed run WR hype for it. I wish there was more details/depth on stuff like that than Club Penguin dead meme runs and CoD zombies costing money.
I’m surprised he knew the exact inputs for 8-B first room lol I only figured that out a bit ago
It's always the channels with 3K - 20K subscribers that upload the best videos
@@BasicRock123 Ong tho, that’s how u know they have the most passion for it. They make it for the community rather than money.
I beg to differ with cod zombies. The zombies speed running community has only in the last few years started to emerge. The game can go for only so many hours before requiring a "reset" where it simply resets the game because the integer limit has been reached. So what people have began doing in the last few years, is taking like 10 hours over a few days to use the fastest strategy to get to the highest round possible. Over time it's made strategy's get more difficult and complex to pull off for such extended periods of time. In a way I think it's kept a large part of the zombies community alive by giving us all something to onlook at while we wait for more community made maps or hopefully another good game to rival what the community regards the best zombies experience in black ops 3.
I started speedrunning mario after the darbian wave (after his WR video went viral on youtube)
this was a problem already 20 years ago.
Idk why you felt the need to be so rashly disrespectful to Billy Murray. You say these harsh things about him as if he’s some exceptionally horrible singer. Every singer was like this at the time, singing vaudeville novelty songs without the aid of electric microphones, causing them to sound like “bad singers” by modern tastes. And just about everyone, even people who were otherwise very progressive by early 1900s standards (such as Al Jolson) were performing in blackface on at least some occasions. Most of the “outrageous accents” Murray sang in were Irish, and he himself was born and raised in Ireland. There’s a lot of stuff from this era that people can take offense with today, but you shouldn’t just pick and choose individual singers and decide that they’re “bad people.”
2 kingdom hearts songs? I kept hearing it and I was like 'I know that sound lol. Appreciate the quality in content guy.
SMB1 is a game that is old and optimized, but it shown a remarkable resistance to exploitation. Very few games are built this well and therefore allow for the human speedrun to be this close to the TAS run.
For starters there is no known way to push Mario beyond his natural top speed. Not even in a TAS run. You can just make him reach this top speed a little faster (hence 'fast acceleration') but the limit is not crossable. This is already different from majority of games, where main speed technique is just moving faster than you normally can.
If we compete with TAS and lower the theoretical best possible time instead of competing normally with the human limit, we can have some fun, improve our knowledge of the game and prolong the life of WRs being achieved because it will drastically improve the chances of finding a big innovation/trick.
I cannot stand any live stream which goes pass 200 viewers with very few exceptions. The hyperactivity of a chat which has 1,000 can only be appealing to the lowest age demographic on the platform. There are not a lot of people who have used RUclips for 16+ years like myself. My age demographic at 39 is also one of the smallest age demographics.
For the pause the video when the circle is green thing, i did it first try.
maybe i should try speedrunning.
LOOK THERE I AM GARY THERE I AM! 7:05
TL;DW: this video isn’t about the death speedrunning, but the decay in popularity of specific games among speedrunners over the years.
Speed running is a huge waste of time. There’s nothing to be gotten out of it and only 1 person can be the best which makes everyone else irrelevant.
I can tell you watch emp lemon lol
Yeah, it's definitely a similar style
yeeeeeah, but idk emplemon does it in a more entertaining way
Doesn't feel nearly as forced
truth or square and the movie spongebob games could prolly have some hidden depth because they are clearly built off bfbb
why does the beginning sounds like a matpat out of context video
I knew I recognized Skilloz from somewhere, he’s still around in speedrunning today!
I actually have heard the name bill murray before but I have no idea where from
They'll just change categories, it's happened in a bunch of other games.
lol I accidentally got the green circle first try
I am a speedrunner, but not for any games that need 1 frame tricks
lmfao this shit is all over the place. What did billy murray have anything to do with anything??
um did i just did 1 frame timer speedrun first try
how can someone be such a crybaby about blackface espacially if it happens 100 years ago
Two minutes in… wondering what video I clicked on lol
I have nothing of substance to say, beyond that I enjoyed the video.
whoa i thought i recognized your voice, youre rubbertoe lol
That introduction was so good
Judging by the fact that both me and my brother separately found you today, I think the algorithm is about to be very fruitful for you.
Also your video quality is way better than your sub number. Kept it up
Who else heard about Billy Murray for the first time from this video?
A lot of us
People need to learn how to speedrun in real life.
I was convinced I clicked on the wrong video.
Really happy to see all the attention this video is getting.
What a great video, interesting topic and incredibly well narrated.
Ok
have they not considered retiming runs to bring competition back to the game? Starting the time at the first frame in each level that Mario can move, and pausing time once Mario can no longer move? Could revive the competition (perhaps in a new category) once the final frame-rule is saved.
Feel like this video could benefit from a different title but it's good nonetheless.
Some interesting arguments and some that fall pretty flat, also the title is misleading since you do mostly focus on what happened to certain games and focus way less on the speedrunning community itself. Maybe "How Speedruns die" or something similar would have been more approriate (but you need to play the algorithm, I understand). Also I don't necessarily think the Bill Murray example is applicable to speedrunning in a more narrowed context, in a very broad one it may apply. The existence of the internet, the preservation / ease of access of information due to it and how people who speedrun are intricately linked to preserving their achievements, strats etc. are all big factors that make the situation of speedruns vastly different from Bill Murray's. Content like yours actually further shows that even niche communities have a way bigger chance of being remembered and reiterated on / revived in the modern age than something from almost a hundred years ago that could be considered to have been very popular culture at that time.
I would've liked if instead the topic of *what happens to a speedrunning community when a "perfect" speedrun is achieved?* would have gotten some more attention because it's genuinely a very interesting thought and one that could be taken in a lot of different directions, even a philosophical one probably.
This is meant to be helpful criticism, I really respect all the effort that goes into making videos like these, but I notice a lot of these essay style videos tend to lose themselves in not very well constructed arguments or drift away from the assumed main topic of the video! Good luck for the future!
at least if SMB1 dies ill never have to hear about the bus ever again
5:12
too bad pressing comma or period allows me to go back and forward 1 frame
Or I could just adjust the playback speed and spam pause until paused at the right frame
I've heard of John McCormack that did his own cover of It's a Long Way to the Tipperary, I actually have a surreal mix of the song on my channel but I didn't know about Billy Murray at all also I like the vid you posted here so I decided to sub to you man keep it up also Billy Murray sounds like he was the early 1900s version of a RUclipsr selling out to Raid Shadow Legends or Raycons lol
76 1 frames? Not a number to scare a fighting game player.
Breakdown has been dead since it started. And we still dyin B)
Why the hell is pou on the speed run page???
I couldn't have picked a better time to get back into running BFBB rehydrated lmao
After any percent super Mario brothers are perfected and the top ten leader boards are just the same scores, what will occur with the title speed run community then?
as a ex-runner It’s really true when some games gets stuck or die, some examples I ever had it’s Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors Ultimate: with Sonic Unleashed went the downfall of speedrunning because of the Next Gen Consoles (XSX/PS5) because it has a consistent frames with the advantage of 60fps of the game and for Colors Ultimate also has the same case but it’s like BFBBR but instead of 146 is at 144fps capped and 30fps advantages and disadvantages for the Switch, PC, and others to get a better time for the runs
It's pessimistic to say a speedgame is dead if there's some activity to it. Somebody's running it; it's alive to them, right?
Zoomers think everything is dead if it’s not COD popular.
@@kingstarscream320 Nobody even likes COD.
This video is woke af, congrats
Shame that many speedrun-worthy games are either forgotten or never widely recognized.
About the NES controller at the end and about Niftski... he's using a keyboard, not a (NES) controller :)
But yeah, the point is that it's almost impossible to beat SMB1 any% even faster. And I agree. No matter if you're using a controller or a keyboard.
But I still love to watch these speedruns! At least for some games :)
Love Billy. Alcoholic Blues is one of my jams.