Great video as always. I would recommend trying to hang out with Troy Fowler from Ranch Fairy. He and Dr. Ed Ashby will make your head spin with even more arrow knowledge.
Great talk. I like the specifics and physics also. TAC just proved to me that my cheap Black Eagle Outlaw 350's are better than I am. They go exactly where I aim them. Their best feature is the ease of retrieval from dirt.
It’s pretty hilarious I turned this video on in my truck, after leaving the bow shop with Easton axis arrows in my seat and I’m pulling into the chic fil a ! 😂
Definitely a happy medium. Imo best good comments are #1 followed by good arrow flight. Then I'm looking to achieve a minimum FOC of 18% which in turn, translates to a heavier arrow. My arrow setup right now is a goldtip 300 spine, 100 grain insert, 125 grain Magnus 2 buzzcut. Total weight is 520 grain FOC at 18%. Shooting a Triax at 65 pounds, draw at 28" . I don't worry too much about trajectory since 95% of the time I'm whitetail hunting with shots under 30 yards.
Epic video! Really opening up how I want my set up to be, lots of good points to consider too! Thank so much for your wisdom! I really enjoy your quality content!!
All I have ever used is match grade 5mm axis (+/-.001). 100g tip with 75g brass insert. Cut to 26". 13.1 FOC. Right 2 degree helical. They are EXTREMELY accurate.
So I have ran Deep Six FMJs for a few years now. The only things I find an issue with these particular shafts is as follows: inserts work their way loose or come out entirely. And the COST of them. If you lose one (don’t judge me) it isn’t easy on your wallet when that happens. BUT THE absolute best arrow I have ever used without question. The penetration of these shafts compared to others is unmatched! Well, after all, this is my opinion based on a few years of heavy shooting and hunting! Great content once again Brandon!!
Great video. Can’t wait for part deux. I have struggled with similar challenges for setups and really enjoy seeing how you worked through it. Great content and can’t wait to see how you like your Day 6 setup!
As usual Brandon great video. I think the arrow set up is the most important part of the bow setup as a whole. Oh one other thing. Don't worry about how long the video is!
I am one of those short-armed/short draw persons. I put a lot of time and expense into picking what I consider to be the "best" arrows for hunting. Randy Ulmer has some good articles on arrow selection - they are old but still relevant. Additionally, Dr Ulmer (and John Dudley) has suggested that he keeps in arrows in the 270 fps range and adds weight in order to maintain this speed, as bow performance increases year by year. Thanks for taking the time to make this content.
What a topic, I love it. You hit the nail on the head mentioning preference due to animal and style of hunting aswell as personal bow setup. People take note of this and spend the time just like Brandon and other successful people do and try what works best !!! Well done Brandon love your work.
Another fantastic video. Well thought out, deliberate in presentation, and detailed at a level that is digestible but still leaves me thinking afterwards. Looking forward to part 2!
Wow what a smack down on those shafts. All I can say Is thanks for saving a lot of people miss or wounded animals ,not to mention target shooting. I use Victory vap Elite amazing shafts.....buy them on Ebay for 144 dollars some times less. Since the shafts are so small they drive further thru the block targets ,I have to shoot at least 25 yards to keep arrows from going thru.
Here in Australia, I've found the CX piledriver to be awesome. They're older carbon arrows but with a good insert (60-100gr) they will kill dinosaurs. Relatively cheap too.
I’m using the Ironwill system with Easton Axis (match grade) arrows and so far so good. Great groups out to 55-60 yards. This set up is expensive, but the consistency is excellent and therefor worth while. I spine index each arrow, build them, spin them and have no concerns. Id rather forgo a piece of gear if it means that my arrow flight is as good as I can make it. Plus building arrows is like hand loading ammunition for long range precision shooting, what you get out of it is what you put into it(hopefully punched tags and great memories). Great video Brandon 👊🏹
great review. I have come to similar conclusion. I want a flat shooting arrow. I dont always get to range the animal, and 5 yards of variation a flat trajectory helps me connect. I always have a FMJ in the quiver, for maybe a frontal shot, but have never used it. and NOTE... my FMJ i need to use a 40 yard pin for a 30 yard shot, pins are set using Gamegetter.
Yep, I stopped by shooting FMJ 12 years ago after my first set, once you start clicking arrows they start taking that set you talked about. Your channel is great just subscribed and catching up on all the Videos
Always enjoy your videos, man. I’ve been down some rabbit holes lately about “heavy vs lite” and it seems like people on both sides are always coming for the others throat. Thank you for not being one of those. Can’t wait for part 2.
4D Outdoors don’t go too lite. Bows are designed to shoot no less than a minimum weight or boom. Like dry firing the bow. Likely we all know that though.
Have you tried tempering the arrow? The carbon fiber cylinder inside is under stress from the bent aluminum and is trying to pull back the aluminum to become straight. Giving it a helping hand with some heat might straighten it out if the epoxy inside can handle some heat (generally a maximum of 150°C (300°F) for shorter periods of time for regular epoxy and double that if it's high heat resistant epoxy), though it might mess with the properties since it's a 7075 alloy and is a tempered alloy, but it melts at 477 °C (891 °F) so the carbon fiber pipe would probably go bonkers first. The only reason I can think of for putting an aluminum sleeve on it is for impact protection, like dropping it on a rock or maybe when it hits bone (side impacts when it wobbles through and animal). Aluminum is not really great for withstanding fatigue, even if it's 7075 alloy.
I changed from FMJ as well this year to Valkyrie Reign 300 spine with 100 gr centerline sleeve and a 230 gr head. brents test order system is great, you get a chance to try different weight.
Brandon excellent data, I stopped shooting FMJs for the same exact reason (bending), my new arrows are Victory VAP SS and GT Kinetic Pierce Plat. both are micro diameter and shoot great.
I started shooting the Victory VAP SS. Great More-Ment-um as you say. Best arrows I've ever shot. 20% FOC at 570 grains. Makes me happy at least. The stainless steel won't bend like an Aluminum one.
Great point about FMJ’s I started with the 4 mm FMJs and very soon figured out they were bending Shooting Carbon Injexions now I want to try the new Axis 4 mm long range lighter hopefully faster and will shoot flatter at distance I only have 27” draw at 62 lbs on my TRIAX
On the FMJ bending...I have a similar issue with my high use VAPs. I was shooting horrible groups a week before the season, but groups got better at distance. Pulled my kill sticks out to get fully prepped for the season and I was shooting bullet holes and breaking things. Lol Then I tested the deflection and found my practice arrows were super noodles. Carbon breaks down just as easy as FMJs can bend permanently.
I've had some do that as well, but probably only two out of the 4ish dozens I've had. I think the fmjs have a significantly shorter life if you shoot everyday at home with them. Slap once and they're not .003 anymore
Brandon Mcdonald most of my practice arrows have hit a lot of dirt (I practice outdoors at 70-90yds almost exclusively and I pay for it in early season) and have been used for 2+ years of weekly shooting from May to October so that might be a reason...lol
Good video,, preach it brother ,, weight matters ! I shoot bloodsport evidence micro ,, 160 up front 527 grains total,, shooting 70lb 32” draw,, 282fps ,, my whitetail setup ,, can’t wait till the next video
Pretty informative video and the cinematography is nice. I am having a somewhat similar issue, but must less weight difference. I have been shooting the Cabela's Stalker Xtreme 340 spine with 100 grain up front for years they are 9.3 grain per inch. I recently bought a 6 pack of Carbon Express Mayhem SDS that are 11.25 grain per inch with a camo wrap on them and come with 47 grain inserts. My bow is an old PSE Fire Flite 33 from 06' with a 29 inch draw length and pulling 60 lbs. I bought some 100 grain Magnus Stinger Buzzcuts and Sik F4s at Cabela's since I couldn't find any 125-150 grain broadheads there or most places online are out of stock/backorder. Anyway there is a drop of 3+ inches from one arrow to the next and I have to gap shoot my pins that I have set up for the basic 100 grain points with aluminum inserts just to get close. I did chrono my set up with the Stalker Xtremes at 264 fps on a Caldwell chronograph. I even have tried a wrist release and a thumb button one.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 Thank you Sir. I am hoping so, even though I have never shot at or into an animal with my previous arrows. Once I get these dialed into 40 yards (whitetail in WV), make sure my broadheads are sharp and find an opportunity, execute shot placement, I am hopeful for success. I did quick math and without the weight of the 3 blazers and Nocturnal lighted nock my arrow weighs 473.25 including arrow, insert and broadhead.
Devils advocate: what if the FMJs aren’t bending because of arrow slap from hitting targets...what if they bend from poor form when pulling out of targets? What if it’s gripping them too hard or not pulling perfectly straight out of the target when removing them?
@@dlydly1686 obviously people wouldn't want to deal with bent arrows; but maybe it's worth trying to be a little more thoughtful when yanking arrows buried deep in a target, if there's a chance that's all it takes to keep the arrows straight for longer. It's just a hypothesis, I could be wrong here.
I use $25/6pack Victory Decimator 350's with 100gr Montec G5's thru my 2016 Bowtech RPM360 at 70#.... Dont have a clue what the weight or energy is but, Ive blown thru big bodied northern Wisconsin whitetails & they stand there like nothing happened before tipping over a few seconds later.....
IBO speed is also a factor to consider when selecting arrows spine. A bow that IBOs at 345 is going to apply more energy to an arrow than a bow that IBOs at 315. A faster more aggressive cam system will likely need a stiffer spine. (edit for spelling)
Brandon Usually everyone is pimping there opinion on there favoirite and why you should buy it. Love your approach on this content. We can spend way too much time (like I did) on fine tuning, worrying, arguing stats. Most people don't have time or resources to compile data and they listen to the wrong [archery product hustler] on YT. Accuracy and shot placement will always trump arrows weight I believe. One cosmetic issue can be brought to light it that certain manufacturers(easton,BE,) have emblems on side that will wear off or wipe clean easily, where I've been shooting some victory vf that I've refltched 6 times and acetone doesn't seen to hurt the emblem too much (not saying it wont)And the emblem doesn't seen to wear. But there I go pimping arrows lol. Thanks
Hahaz I don't have any issue with someone saying they like because they actually like it. My issue is, if you're getting a check it's harder to be objective..
BRANDON I would love to have a video that you review different release! And the different types, if you could do the silver back that would be awesome.
Momentum tells us how much energy, based on the weight and velocity of the arrow, it has available to use during impact and penetration before it stops penetrating and comes to rest. Momentum is a much better indicator of what we can expect for penetration from our arrows. GrizzlyStik › The-Power-of-Momen...
I didnt know you released this video so soon, lol. I bought my first bow yesterday and bought some arrows (dont know the exact kind other then they are all carbon and made by Beman) and im very happy with it already. This video and part 2 will help me greatly and I appreciate it. You're videos are very informative and useful for pros and beginners alike im sure, so keep you up. You have a new subscriber.
I would be really curious to see your exact set up for arrows. I have a VXR 31.5 with the same draw length shooting 70lbs and want to try something different than my FMJs.
I’m shooting a micro diameter shaft with 95 grain outsert 100grain tip. 14% FOC 504grains total weight 290fps IMO best arrow build for anything in North America
Killed my Elk Cow with a 615g Arrow (pretty light but that allowed me to get great FOC) with 105g in/outcert and 200g fixed broadhead. Shot out of a 55lb (nearer to 52lb at my draw length) recurve at 15 yards. Weight kills 😁 looking forward to part 2.
“Your setup sucks.. and I’m sorry about that” hahaha!! Dying.. yet again.. great video. I still shoot fmjs but will phase them out next year.. mostly cause of the cost but also cause I’ve noticed the spreading groups.. maybe I just suck but.. good excuse to find a little cheaper setup to make the wifey happy.
I shoot fmjs but have been thinking about going to carbon.. I definitely like the penetration they offer. However I bought another rx4 and now one will be set up for target and the other will be my hunting game
Well like you said, it’s preference. If you’re pulling 70# at 29” draw you can shoot 550-800gr arrows and not have a large trajectory issue. If you’re only pulling 40lbs-55lbs then you will have larger fall off. Another part of it is accepting the limits of your set up. Only shooting as far as your arrows and bow are capable.
I just hope this gets people thinking about this before they buy their next dozen. Examine their setups and try to make them just a bit better instead of buying the same old thing.
Brandon Mcdonald I agree with that! Getting people thinking is what should be happening. I enjoyed your information and I really appreciate your content. Good stuff man!
You should check out the HMR from Vector. They are the most efficient piercing I've found, and I was blown away by their customer service. If they were a bow shop, they wouldn't charge you to test shoot a new bow...
Actually I love FMJ's for target shooting, they pull out of nearly all targets with ease and minimal amount of target shit gets stuck on the shaft. Some carbon arrows I've shot take more effort to remove from target than energy used to put them into the target.
I looked into the three insert systems you mentioned at the end of the video, but think I’m going with FOCUS system by Black Eagle, just mentioning if you haven’t looked into that particular one yet. Keep up the videos.
Yeah I currently have BE Rampage in 300 spine but will be switching to x-impact 250 spine with the extra weight up front, 30.5 draw length ~73 lb weight.
180gr Valkyrie, 300 spine VAP elite cut to 26.5", 4 fletch AAE Pro Max, 460gr, 20.4% foc at 286 fps. I'm think next year I'll try out the 200gr heads or go with a 250 spine and jump to the 230 gr heads
Thats why you need a happy compremise about 500 .550 best of both worlds Most guys go to light and get very little penetration,also cut on contact broadhead only way to go.
Shoot a lighter arrow, stiffer spine, and put weight in the front of the arrow. I use ( ELITE enforcer arrows) victory vforce v1 and add 100 grain inserts. They are $90 a doz but if you watch you can get them for $70 and that's when i stock up. .001 arrows for $70 a doz fletched is a no brainer. I've put the same arrow through 5 deer and its back in the quiver with a quick touch up on my magnus black hornet blades.
As always, good stuff. I've been shooting a long time so my personal solution is to set a bow up for 3d, for medium weight adult arrows -500-550 grain and one more for heavy arrows 660 and above. Yes it costs money but as you get older accumulate things. Also just wondering if you shot many aluminum arrows? straightened them ? wonder if it works on FMJs?
I shoot a 45lb recurve with no sights or stabilizers and can keep a group of 12 in a paper plate at 25 yards with a 7.0 gpi arow with a 125 tip and 600 spine they shoot good but should i worried about getting good penetration on deer?
Brandon, I suggest you look up the The study created by Dr Ed Ashby, you can find it on his website titled Ashby Reports. He did a massive study over a stretch of a few decades on arrow lethality.
Ive actually read it. I'll dive more into it when we talk about extreme FOC. There's no doubt that he's got the experience and I agree with lots of his principles.
Great Videos! Keep them up. Analogy of ping pong ball vs baseball’s is far reaching tho. That’s a HUGE weight difference, It’d be more like a baseball ‘5 oz” traveling 90mph vs a soft ball “7 oz” traveling 60 mph but each one has a razor on the tip! Now which one would you choose to get hit in the face with?
As far as trajectory though...the effective elk kill zone is 12”. Using a 450gr arrow on a slow bow (this setup runs ~250fps) and you’d be amazed how easy it is to using a single pin for everything out to 40yds (no moving the pin or housing) Anything over 35 and my second pin (fast eddie XL) will carry me to the kill zone out to 55. This is a stupidly slow setup and I can confidently hit within the kill zone every time with zero ranging while sending a heavy arrow to do its job. The only time I’ve wanted something flatter is when I’ve got some obstructions as it raises the risk of hitting a limb. But I just find a better lane. :)
Yeah, I get it. The time it takes to get there is also another factor to consider. These videos are going to get some negative feedback when I start actually saying what I like. The good news is, there's lots of options that work. Lots of fast light arrows and lots of slow heavy ones bringing home the supper.
Brandon Mcdonald totally. My experience is, if you are good at elk hunting and hunting them in their bedrooms (as one does) you have to be close enough that the time difference is negligible anyway. (That’s what I tell myself at least lol) plus on a really heavy arrow it’s soaked up so much energy that the bow (and arrow) are both much quieter so if the animal is stopped, the chance of a move between release and contact is low enough you can safely ignore it (again, what I tell myself to sleep at night ha) I really liked the FOC video and I think you and I shoot very similar arrow setups from from what I can guess except my route up to this point has been Grizzlystik BHs and you seem to be a Valkyrie man. If they had been shipping to Canada when I started picking my BH, I’d have probably gone with them and they’ll definitely be on my next setup whenever I get around to being able to afford that. Lol
Using a 570gr total axis 300 with about 32% FOC and it is brutal. Flies about 260 fps, so eh... could be lighter but you know what they say about long arms.... long arrows! Went for a middle ground compromise between force and speed.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 actually... big apologies, and for anyone else reading this- I've been informed that my reported FOC above isn't accurate because I need to account for the shaft weight from the middle balance point too. Yeah I was way off. Sorry! Still great arrows tho, just way less FOC.
Thanks for this video. Great info. Always enjoy your videos... Have you tried traditional? I shoot both, enjoy both. Trad is a lot more fun. Compound is more surgical... Keep up the great content.
Great video. One thing you said though I don't agree. You mentioned that fmj's are good for hunting but not for target shooters. I absolutely hate when people say that. Why wouldn't you want your setup just as critical for hunting? After all....you are shooting at a live animal. That animal is paying the ultimate price to put food on your table and a trophy on your wall. I think we owe it to the animals we hunt to give them best we can. So that means....the best archery set up. Not...."well it's good enough for hunting". Love your videos though Brandon!
There was a lot he said that made me say "not quite accurate" or "train of thought is on the right track but some pieces are missing." The FMJ thing is a valid point though. I currently shoot FMJs (250 spine, 11.5 GPI, 29 inches) and the aluminum will cause the arrow to lose straightness over time, but they are still great for hunting. The shaft has great accuracy potential and correctly built arrows in a well tuned for the arrow bow are certainly consistent enough to be highly competitive in a match when new. The thing is, competitive target archers shoot many more arrows a year than most hunters do. They would have to repace arrows a lot. For hunters, if you build a new set of arrows at the beginning of the season and shoot just enough to verify the tune before you hunt, the arrows will not see enough deformation to notice groups opening up by the end of the season in most cases. The old arrows are still used as practice arrows and the new ones as hunting arrows. If a program like this is used, FMJs are great for hunting and you are not making compromises.
the FMJ as a hunting arrow was not receiving the high frequency of shots, therefore not as susceptible to bending. as a target arrow, clearly unacceptable bending after multiple shots. His point had nothing to do with compromising on an animal. But for me... Eason Axis 5mm
I’m convinced, every time you make a video, it costs me money...great content.
PREACH HAHAHA
Right .. his camera work and communication skills are on Point
Fr
Anyone in the market for some slightly used 300 spine FMJ’s? ... they’re pretty straight.
Winner of best comment!
Now THAT'S funny!!
Love all the work and dedication that goes into all of you videos. Top notch as always.
No way I am skipping chick fil a. I'll give up something else first.
Great stuff Brandon, I always enjoy watching your content. You should consider a podcast. I’m sure you’re time might not allow, but I’d subscribe
Great video as always. I would recommend trying to hang out with Troy Fowler from Ranch Fairy. He and Dr. Ed Ashby will make your head spin with even more arrow knowledge.
I came here looking for this comment! 😂 People think they're a little over the top, but they are doing legit research.
I'm following their advice for my next arrow build. I have a friend that has had great success with those types of builds.
Great talk. I like the specifics and physics also. TAC just proved to me that my cheap Black Eagle Outlaw 350's are better than I am. They go exactly where I aim them. Their best feature is the ease of retrieval from dirt.
It’s pretty hilarious I turned this video on in my truck, after leaving the bow shop with Easton axis arrows in my seat and I’m pulling into the chic fil a ! 😂
Definitely a happy medium. Imo best good comments are #1 followed by good arrow flight. Then I'm looking to achieve a minimum FOC of 18% which in turn, translates to a heavier arrow. My arrow setup right now is a goldtip 300 spine, 100 grain insert, 125 grain Magnus 2 buzzcut. Total weight is 520 grain FOC at 18%. Shooting a Triax at 65 pounds, draw at 28" . I don't worry too much about trajectory since 95% of the time I'm whitetail hunting with shots under 30 yards.
I hardly ever comment on videos, but I am loving these videos. For a new bow guy all of this is perfect. Thank you!
Epic video! Really opening up how I want my set up to be, lots of good points to consider too! Thank so much for your wisdom! I really enjoy your quality content!!
All I have ever used is match grade 5mm axis (+/-.001). 100g tip with 75g brass insert. Cut to 26". 13.1 FOC. Right 2 degree helical. They are EXTREMELY accurate.
So I have ran Deep Six FMJs for a few years now. The only things I find an issue with these particular shafts is as follows: inserts work their way loose or come out entirely. And the COST of them. If you lose one (don’t judge me) it isn’t easy on your wallet when that happens. BUT
THE absolute best arrow I have ever used without question. The penetration of these shafts compared to others is unmatched!
Well, after all, this is my opinion based on a few years of heavy shooting and hunting! Great content once again Brandon!!
Great video. Can’t wait for part deux. I have struggled with similar challenges for setups and really enjoy seeing how you worked through it. Great content and can’t wait to see how you like your Day 6 setup!
I NEED MORE!!! Keep doing what you're doing man. The quality of your content is like no other.
You said what I've been thinking and wondering forever. So much good information can not thank you enough
As usual Brandon great video. I think the arrow set up is the most important part of the bow setup as a whole. Oh one other thing. Don't worry about how long the video is!
I am one of those short-armed/short draw persons. I put a lot of time and expense into picking what I consider to be the "best" arrows for hunting. Randy Ulmer has some good articles on arrow selection - they are old but still relevant. Additionally, Dr Ulmer (and John Dudley) has suggested that he keeps in arrows in the 270 fps range and adds weight in order to maintain this speed, as bow performance increases year by year. Thanks for taking the time to make this content.
Favorite archery channel on the tube. Keep it up bro.
Thanks for watching!
Another great video. Have been tossing around ideas for arrows for a minute. Looking forward to your next vid as aways
Hopefully I'll have time to get it done this weekend!
What a topic, I love it. You hit the nail on the head mentioning preference due to animal and style of hunting aswell as personal bow setup. People take note of this and spend the time just like Brandon and other successful people do and try what works best !!! Well done Brandon love your work.
Haven't even watched it yet but I stopped using FMJs too. Bent too many hitting other arrows or hard targets. DaySix are my go-to now.
I really love your videos man. They are always so well put together and informative. Keep up the good work!
Another fantastic video. Well thought out, deliberate in presentation, and detailed at a level that is digestible but still leaves me thinking afterwards.
Looking forward to part 2!
Wow what a smack down on those shafts. All I can say Is thanks for saving a lot of people miss or wounded animals ,not to mention target shooting. I use Victory vap Elite amazing shafts.....buy them on Ebay for 144 dollars some times less. Since the shafts are so small they drive further thru the block targets ,I have to shoot at least 25 yards to keep arrows from going thru.
I’m glad I found your channel. You’re making some great content.
These videos are always worth the wait. I bought a stabilizer from Cutter as well. They seem to be really great people.
Here in Australia, I've found the CX piledriver to be awesome. They're older carbon arrows but with a good insert (60-100gr) they will kill dinosaurs. Relatively cheap too.
250 spine, 150 GN head art a short draw, 601gn. Works like a dream
I’m using the Ironwill system with Easton Axis (match grade) arrows and so far so good. Great groups out to 55-60 yards.
This set up is expensive, but the consistency is excellent and therefor worth while. I spine index each arrow, build them, spin them and have no concerns. Id rather forgo a piece of gear if it means that my arrow flight is as good as I can make it. Plus building arrows is like hand loading ammunition for long range precision shooting, what you get out of it is what you put into it(hopefully punched tags and great memories).
Great video Brandon 👊🏹
great review. I have come to similar conclusion. I want a flat shooting arrow. I dont always get to range the animal, and 5 yards of variation a flat trajectory helps me connect. I always have a FMJ in the quiver, for maybe a frontal shot, but have never used it. and NOTE... my FMJ i need to use a 40 yard pin for a 30 yard shot, pins are set using Gamegetter.
Yep, I stopped by shooting FMJ 12 years ago after my first set, once you start clicking arrows they start taking that set you talked about. Your channel is great just subscribed and catching up on all the Videos
I am really enjoying the format and production quality of your videos. Nice job man, keep it coming!
Very intelligent approach to the question
Always enjoy your videos, man. I’ve been down some rabbit holes lately about “heavy vs lite” and it seems like people on both sides are always coming for the others throat. Thank you for not being one of those. Can’t wait for part 2.
4D Outdoors don’t go too lite. Bows are designed to shoot no less than a minimum weight or boom. Like dry firing the bow. Likely we all know that though.
Have you tried tempering the arrow? The carbon fiber cylinder inside is under stress from the bent aluminum and is trying to pull back the aluminum to become straight. Giving it a helping hand with some heat might straighten it out if the epoxy inside can handle some heat (generally a maximum of 150°C (300°F) for shorter periods of time for regular epoxy and double that if it's high heat resistant epoxy), though it might mess with the properties since it's a 7075 alloy and is a tempered alloy, but it melts at 477 °C (891 °F) so the carbon fiber pipe would probably go bonkers first. The only reason I can think of for putting an aluminum sleeve on it is for impact protection, like dropping it on a rock or maybe when it hits bone (side impacts when it wobbles through and animal). Aluminum is not really great for withstanding fatigue, even if it's 7075 alloy.
I changed from FMJ as well this year to Valkyrie Reign 300 spine with 100 gr centerline sleeve and a 230 gr head. brents test order system is great, you get a chance to try different weight.
Brandon excellent data, I stopped shooting FMJs for the same exact reason (bending), my new arrows are Victory VAP SS and GT Kinetic Pierce Plat. both are micro diameter and shoot great.
Both great arrows. Im having a hard time finding some of the Victory arrows that I'd like to try, but in general I like them.
I bought 2 dozen Black Eagle Deep Impact's and have been SO happy with them. They're bunker busters.
Great vid. He almost lost me the moment he suggested skipping a Chick-Fil-A meal.
Sacrifices must be made!
Best explanation of the momentum vs trajectory conundrum I’ve seen yet. Also why ke is a useless measurement as it relates to archery.
I started shooting the Victory VAP SS. Great More-Ment-um as you say. Best arrows I've ever shot. 20% FOC at 570 grains. Makes me happy at least. The stainless steel won't bend like an Aluminum one.
Great point about FMJ’s I started with the 4 mm FMJs and very soon figured out they were bending
Shooting Carbon Injexions now
I want to try the new Axis 4 mm long range lighter hopefully faster and will shoot flatter at distance
I only have 27” draw at 62 lbs on my TRIAX
Lots of great arrows these days. I'm still enjoying the axis match grades.
Yeah I’m not shooting right now due to had to have surgery
Dr hasn’t cleared me yet to shoot or run lol
So I re-fletched my arrows today lol
Bloody hell Brandon,, why you gotta leave me hanging for the next video man.. Great contents once more..
Now i feel i gotta get new arrows
On the FMJ bending...I have a similar issue with my high use VAPs. I was shooting horrible groups a week before the season, but groups got better at distance. Pulled my kill sticks out to get fully prepped for the season and I was shooting bullet holes and breaking things. Lol
Then I tested the deflection and found my practice arrows were super noodles. Carbon breaks down just as easy as FMJs can bend permanently.
I've had some do that as well, but probably only two out of the 4ish dozens I've had. I think the fmjs have a significantly shorter life if you shoot everyday at home with them. Slap once and they're not .003 anymore
Brandon Mcdonald most of my practice arrows have hit a lot of dirt (I practice outdoors at 70-90yds almost exclusively and I pay for it in early season) and have been used for 2+ years of weekly shooting from May to October so that might be a reason...lol
More really good insight. Newbies can learn a lot from your perspectives. 👍👍👍
We can all learn together!
Sweet, always enjoy your stuff bud! Well explained!
Good video,, preach it brother ,, weight matters ! I shoot bloodsport evidence micro ,, 160 up front 527 grains total,, shooting 70lb 32” draw,, 282fps ,, my whitetail setup ,, can’t wait till the next video
I really like those specs. That's probably close to where I'll be but with 75lb bow at 30" draw. Ill probably be a bit slower.
Pretty informative video and the cinematography is nice. I am having a somewhat similar issue, but must less weight difference. I have been shooting the Cabela's Stalker Xtreme 340 spine with 100 grain up front for years they are 9.3 grain per inch. I recently bought a 6 pack of Carbon Express Mayhem SDS that are 11.25 grain per inch with a camo wrap on them and come with 47 grain inserts. My bow is an old PSE Fire Flite 33 from 06' with a 29 inch draw length and pulling 60 lbs. I bought some 100 grain Magnus Stinger Buzzcuts and Sik F4s at Cabela's since I couldn't find any 125-150 grain broadheads there or most places online are out of stock/backorder. Anyway there is a drop of 3+ inches from one arrow to the next and I have to gap shoot my pins that I have set up for the basic 100 grain points with aluminum inserts just to get close. I did chrono my set up with the Stalker Xtremes at 264 fps on a Caldwell chronograph. I even have tried a wrist release and a thumb button one.
That new setup will pack a nice lunch for your specs. I think you made a good upgrade.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 Thank you Sir. I am hoping so, even though I have never shot at or into an animal with my previous arrows. Once I get these dialed into 40 yards (whitetail in WV), make sure my broadheads are sharp and find an opportunity, execute shot placement, I am hopeful for success.
I did quick math and without the weight of the 3 blazers and Nocturnal lighted nock my arrow weighs 473.25 including arrow, insert and broadhead.
Great video. Jumping on it late. Newbie question but wouldn’t resighting and taping allow the 825g arrow point of aim become more calculated?
I could just listen to you talk about archery for hours. I would literally just pull up your videos and do homework with it in the background.
I do that with some peoples videos too so I get that. Glad I could help with the homework back ground experience!
Devils advocate: what if the FMJs aren’t bending because of arrow slap from hitting targets...what if they bend from poor form when pulling out of targets? What if it’s gripping them too hard or not pulling perfectly straight out of the target when removing them?
Maybe
Either way who wants to deal with that??
@@dlydly1686 obviously people wouldn't want to deal with bent arrows; but maybe it's worth trying to be a little more thoughtful when yanking arrows buried deep in a target, if there's a chance that's all it takes to keep the arrows straight for longer. It's just a hypothesis, I could be wrong here.
I use $25/6pack Victory Decimator 350's with 100gr Montec G5's thru my 2016 Bowtech RPM360 at 70#.... Dont have a clue what the weight or energy is but, Ive blown thru big bodied northern Wisconsin whitetails & they stand there like nothing happened before tipping over a few seconds later.....
Jut came across your channel last month. Great content and very well done!
Appreciate you watching!
IBO speed is also a factor to consider when selecting arrows spine. A bow that IBOs at 345 is going to apply more energy to an arrow than a bow that IBOs at 315. A faster more aggressive cam system will likely need a stiffer spine. (edit for spelling)
yes, aggressive cams should increase arrow stiffness.
Brandon Usually everyone is pimping there opinion on there favoirite and why you should buy it. Love your approach on this content. We can spend way too much time (like I did) on fine tuning, worrying, arguing stats. Most people don't have time or resources to compile data and they listen to the wrong [archery product hustler] on YT. Accuracy and shot placement will always trump arrows weight I believe. One cosmetic issue can be brought to light it that certain manufacturers(easton,BE,) have emblems on side that will wear off or wipe clean easily, where I've been shooting some victory vf that I've refltched 6 times and acetone doesn't seen to hurt the emblem too much (not saying it wont)And the emblem doesn't seen to wear. But there I go pimping arrows lol. Thanks
Hahaz I don't have any issue with someone saying they like because they actually like it. My issue is, if you're getting a check it's harder to be objective..
BRANDON I would love to have a video that you review different release! And the different types, if you could do the silver back that would be awesome.
Me too! Just need to get more before I filmed it
I went away from them, but now I'm back. They are the most accurate arrow I've shot.
Momentum tells us how much energy, based on the weight and velocity of the arrow, it has available to use during impact and penetration before it stops penetrating and comes to rest. Momentum is a much better indicator of what we can expect for penetration from our arrows.
GrizzlyStik › The-Power-of-Momen...
Correct!
excellent video/ documentary !
I didnt know you released this video so soon, lol. I bought my first bow yesterday and bought some arrows (dont know the exact kind other then they are all carbon and made by Beman) and im very happy with it already. This video and part 2 will help me greatly and I appreciate it. You're videos are very informative and useful for pros and beginners alike im sure, so keep you up. You have a new subscriber.
Congrats in the new setup! Thanks for the sub
I would be really curious to see your exact set up for arrows. I have a VXR 31.5 with the same draw length shooting 70lbs and want to try something different than my FMJs.
New arrow video coming soon where I'll tell y'all what I'm going to shoot.
We need..........'MORE-MENT-UM' ! great video, keep up the good work. these videos are both entertaining and educational.
I stopped shooting them because all aluminum & carbon bonded arrows develop a slight spine bend over time
I’m shooting a micro diameter shaft with 95 grain outsert 100grain tip. 14% FOC 504grains total weight 290fps IMO best arrow build for anything in North America
100% correct, I stopped using them too.
Dr McDonald I presume. Very informative as usual
Thank you
thank you for talking about trajectory instead of just talking about weight
Content is soooo great! I could lusten to B.McD talk all day.....about anything!
Good video, very thorough.
Killed my Elk Cow with a 615g Arrow (pretty light but that allowed me to get great FOC) with 105g in/outcert and 200g fixed broadhead. Shot out of a 55lb (nearer to 52lb at my draw length) recurve at 15 yards. Weight kills 😁 looking forward to part 2.
“Your setup sucks.. and I’m sorry about that” hahaha!! Dying.. yet again.. great video. I still shoot fmjs but will phase them out next year.. mostly cause of the cost but also cause I’ve noticed the spreading groups.. maybe I just suck but.. good excuse to find a little cheaper setup to make the wifey happy.
Ive still got my fmjs incase there's a zombie apocalypse! Nothing wrong with them, I just think they have some issues.
I shoot fmjs but have been thinking about going to carbon.. I definitely like the penetration they offer. However I bought another rx4 and now one will be set up for target and the other will be my hunting game
Well like you said, it’s preference. If you’re pulling 70# at 29” draw you can shoot 550-800gr arrows and not have a large trajectory issue. If you’re only pulling 40lbs-55lbs then you will have larger fall off. Another part of it is accepting the limits of your set up. Only shooting as far as your arrows and bow are capable.
I just hope this gets people thinking about this before they buy their next dozen. Examine their setups and try to make them just a bit better instead of buying the same old thing.
Brandon Mcdonald I agree with that! Getting people thinking is what should be happening. I enjoyed your information and I really appreciate your content. Good stuff man!
You should check out the HMR from Vector. They are the most efficient piercing I've found, and I was blown away by their customer service. If they were a bow shop, they wouldn't charge you to test shoot a new bow...
Hahaha, thanks for the reference. I'll look k to them.
Excellent content and very nicely explained. I Just subscribed. 👍
gotta love finding videos that explain easily
I certainly try but there's so much damn math involved!
@@brandonmcdonald6121 yeah I appreciate it heaps man, I find your videos real helpful.
Actually I love FMJ's for target shooting, they pull out of nearly all targets with ease and minimal amount of target shit gets stuck on the shaft. Some carbon arrows I've shot take more effort to remove from target than energy used to put them into the target.
Yeah the carbon actually fuzes to some targets. I do agree that the pull is nice.
I looked into the three insert systems you mentioned at the end of the video, but think I’m going with FOCUS system by Black Eagle, just mentioning if you haven’t looked into that particular one yet. Keep up the videos.
Yeah, looks legit but I haven't shot it yet. It's nice to be able to order everything from one spot though. I like black eagle.
Yeah I currently have BE Rampage in 300 spine but will be switching to x-impact 250 spine with the extra weight up front, 30.5 draw length ~73 lb weight.
You'll be able to crank that weight on those 250s if you want. I've got 280g out front of my 250 spine. Our specs are similar.
I'm pumped to try out the Nexxus Infinitys
180gr Valkyrie, 300 spine VAP elite cut to 26.5", 4 fletch AAE Pro Max, 460gr, 20.4% foc at 286 fps. I'm think next year I'll try out the 200gr heads or go with a 250 spine and jump to the 230 gr heads
Thats why you need a happy compremise about 500 .550 best of both worlds Most guys go to light and get very little penetration,also cut on contact broadhead only way to go.
👍!! Nice job on photography and video editing.
Shoot a lighter arrow, stiffer spine, and put weight in the front of the arrow. I use ( ELITE enforcer arrows) victory vforce v1 and add 100 grain inserts. They are $90 a doz but if you watch you can get them for $70 and that's when i stock up. .001 arrows for $70 a doz fletched is a no brainer. I've put the same arrow through 5 deer and its back in the quiver with a quick touch up on my magnus black hornet blades.
Love your videos man. Hope for more
Hi, could you let me know what type of quiver you see using in this video? That one looks interesting and might be a good addition. ;)
Tight spot. I'm 50/50 on it. I'm going to make some modifications to it and see what I think.
BE Renegade with 300 spine, FOCUS system...100gr G5 Stryker...flies so consistently and groups tight...15% FOC...watch out Idaho Elk
As always, good stuff. I've been shooting a long time so my personal solution is to set a bow up for 3d, for medium weight adult arrows -500-550 grain and one more for heavy arrows 660 and above. Yes it costs money but as you get older accumulate things. Also just wondering if you shot many aluminum arrows? straightened them ? wonder if it works on FMJs?
HHHHHhhhhhhmmmmmmmm ?
I shoot a 45lb recurve with no sights or stabilizers and can keep a group of 12 in a paper plate at 25 yards with a 7.0 gpi arow with a 125 tip and 600 spine they shoot good but should i worried about getting good penetration on deer?
Use a fixed blade broadhead with a pretty strong taper (very pointy) and try for double lung shots. You'll be able to make it happen!
Brandon, I suggest you look up the The study created by Dr Ed Ashby, you can find it on his website titled Ashby Reports. He did a massive study over a stretch of a few decades on arrow lethality.
Ive actually read it. I'll dive more into it when we talk about extreme FOC. There's no doubt that he's got the experience and I agree with lots of his principles.
Great Videos! Keep them up. Analogy of ping pong ball vs baseball’s is far reaching tho. That’s a HUGE weight difference, It’d be more like a baseball ‘5 oz” traveling 90mph vs a soft ball “7 oz” traveling 60 mph but each one has a razor on the tip! Now which one would you choose to get hit in the face with?
Victory vap tko are the toughest.
great info bran!!!!!
As far as trajectory though...the effective elk kill zone is 12”. Using a 450gr arrow on a slow bow (this setup runs ~250fps) and you’d be amazed how easy it is to using a single pin for everything out to 40yds (no moving the pin or housing) Anything over 35 and my second pin (fast eddie XL) will carry me to the kill zone out to 55.
This is a stupidly slow setup and I can confidently hit within the kill zone every time with zero ranging while sending a heavy arrow to do its job. The only time I’ve wanted something flatter is when I’ve got some obstructions as it raises the risk of hitting a limb. But I just find a better lane. :)
Yeah, I get it. The time it takes to get there is also another factor to consider. These videos are going to get some negative feedback when I start actually saying what I like. The good news is, there's lots of options that work. Lots of fast light arrows and lots of slow heavy ones bringing home the supper.
Brandon Mcdonald totally. My experience is, if you are good at elk hunting and hunting them in their bedrooms (as one does) you have to be close enough that the time difference is negligible anyway. (That’s what I tell myself at least lol) plus on a really heavy arrow it’s soaked up so much energy that the bow (and arrow) are both much quieter so if the animal is stopped, the chance of a move between release and contact is low enough you can safely ignore it (again, what I tell myself to sleep at night ha)
I really liked the FOC video and I think you and I shoot very similar arrow setups from from what I can guess except my route up to this point has been Grizzlystik BHs and you seem to be a Valkyrie man. If they had been shipping to Canada when I started picking my BH, I’d have probably gone with them and they’ll definitely be on my next setup whenever I get around to being able to afford that. Lol
Using a 570gr total axis 300 with about 32% FOC and it is brutal. Flies about 260 fps, so eh... could be lighter but you know what they say about long arms.... long arrows! Went for a middle ground compromise between force and speed.
Sounds like a solid setup to me. I'm going to make some lighter arrows soon but I've been really happy with 615g this year.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 actually... big apologies, and for anyone else reading this- I've been informed that my reported FOC above isn't accurate because I need to account for the shaft weight from the middle balance point too. Yeah I was way off. Sorry!
Still great arrows tho, just way less FOC.
Mo' mentum, Mo' betta! Good vid sir.
Thanks for this video. Great info. Always enjoy your videos... Have you tried traditional? I shoot both, enjoy both. Trad is a lot more fun. Compound is more surgical... Keep up the great content.
Great stuff.......
Thanks for watching
Thanks for posting. Your videos cover what regular guys wish they had time to do. I never feel like I am watching a commercial.
I like this guy.
Damn dude, I just spun my FMJ’s and had to cull 3 of them. No joke
Yup
Great video. One thing you said though I don't agree. You mentioned that fmj's are good for hunting but not for target shooters. I absolutely hate when people say that. Why wouldn't you want your setup just as critical for hunting? After all....you are shooting at a live animal. That animal is paying the ultimate price to put food on your table and a trophy on your wall. I think we owe it to the animals we hunt to give them best we can. So that means....the best archery set up. Not...."well it's good enough for hunting". Love your videos though Brandon!
There was a lot he said that made me say "not quite accurate" or "train of thought is on the right track but some pieces are missing." The FMJ thing is a valid point though. I currently shoot FMJs (250 spine, 11.5 GPI, 29 inches) and the aluminum will cause the arrow to lose straightness over time, but they are still great for hunting. The shaft has great accuracy potential and correctly built arrows in a well tuned for the arrow bow are certainly consistent enough to be highly competitive in a match when new. The thing is, competitive target archers shoot many more arrows a year than most hunters do. They would have to repace arrows a lot. For hunters, if you build a new set of arrows at the beginning of the season and shoot just enough to verify the tune before you hunt, the arrows will not see enough deformation to notice groups opening up by the end of the season in most cases. The old arrows are still used as practice arrows and the new ones as hunting arrows. If a program like this is used, FMJs are great for hunting and you are not making compromises.
the FMJ as a hunting arrow was not receiving the high frequency of shots, therefore not as susceptible to bending. as a target arrow, clearly unacceptable bending after multiple shots. His point had nothing to do with compromising on an animal.
But for me... Eason Axis 5mm