I think Rory realized that the PGAT used him for two years...but the global vision for Golf MUST be international....the LIV model is good, but less events in the US.....Yes Norman did push a global tour concept for many years
I was shocked at how unenthusiastic Rory was when questioned about TGL in that interview. I think he's had a reality check (not only about LiV) but also about the lack of peoples interest in TGL 😂😂 It's definitely helped change his mind on the PiF merger.
Aussie Open being a major has been talked about since the 60's, Nicklaus, Player were saying that back in the day, and plenty of Aussies have said it over the years. P.S. Rory is still a dick.
An even bigger one now. I've been saying for over a year that he is a snake who happily threw his Euro pals under the bus just because they joined a different golf tour. This LIV situation exposed him badly.
'Bout time you guys reaappeared. A bleated Happy New Year to you both! Between Rory's recent about face, Martin Slumbers resignation from the R&A yesterday and Keith Pelley's resignation from the DP World Tour today, you're seeing the Saudi PIF's non-violent takeover of professional men's golf in full view. It's been several year's in the making, but now you're seeing their masterplan executed in rapid fire succession. The resignations weren't coincendence. They were calculated departures. The last thing Jay's going to do before quietly exiting stage left in March is sign the working agreement giving the keys to the PGAT kingdom to Yasir Al-rumayyan. This will leave Greg Norman and or Colin Neville to run the new organization. Once the dust settles from the transition of power, the women's game will be targeted next. Unlike the PGAT, the commissioners and players of the LPGA and LET will not put up a fight and will quietly acquiesce to the Saudi PIF demand's. Once the Saudi PIF has full control of men and women's professional golf, the OWGR will immediately get on-board and figure out way to award points to those playing 54-hole team golf events or else find themselves on the outside looking in, as they'll be powerless and no longer needed. This has been a slow moving train until now, but this has been brewing since the formation of the Premiere Golf League (Colin Neville) in 2019. LIV effectively co-opted the PGL's format, as the PGL couldn't convince the PGAT to invest in it, nor did they didn't have the financial resources and investors to go it alone. The Sauidi PIF did, which is why we are where we are at today. Rory now sees the writing on the wall, which explains why he's quickly turned tail. Don't be surprised to see Rory become capatain and 25% owner of the 14th LIV team with Fleetwood, Hatton and either Fitzpatrick or McIntyre on his team.
I'm a ladies golf fan, the Saudis have been involved long before LIV with their high priced Aramco events on the LET and Saudi International which attract stars from LPGA, Korean and Japanese LPGA. I don't think they will expand beyond that, seems to be a happy medium for now. The LPGA is already more global hosting several events in Asia to cater to their top stars and the Korean and Japanese stars are happy playing in their native tours being showered in endorsements and being treated like celebrities as women's golf is more popular in Asia than here in USA
He certainly behaved like the PGATOUR's stooge, basically turning the DP World Tour into a glorified Korn Ferry Tour apart from a few events. I wonder what Seve would have had to say about it all
Farmers Insurance is pulling out of PGA sponsorship (they also pulled out of Insuring folks in Florida, so guess they don't have the money for sponsorship)
Maverick McNealy. The 540 thing was pretty funny. Tiger has been rather quiet. His options are very complicated. The pga tour and tiger are sort of married, and it’s much more complicated than regular marriage where you can just get divorced. There’s a lot of money at stake. Then again it’s a lot like tigers regular marriages.
Or Rory is still the front man for the PGA brass and his 540 spin just represents the 540 spin of the PGA brass. Still plenty of time for more spinning.
H. E Yasir was here in Morocco last week, id love them to bring LIV here, we have an Asian tour International series here already which was great to watch, we also had the ladies European tour q school here in December which was also great to watch, talking to the players at both of those tournaments, they love coming here to Morocco
I believe that Rory's about face is all about the team aspect with equity for captains. He is on the outside of the future of golf. Think of where the LIV will be in a decade forward and Rory watching Rohm, Smith, DJ, Brooks, Phil, Bryson, Sergio, Neiman, Bubba, Louis O, and others have equity positions in high value teams. LIV was paying to play on the courses in 2022, now the courses pay LIV. The LIV business plan is brilliant in obtaining state/country tourism funds to sponsor tourneys. When in doubt follow the money $$$.
The second betrayal of Rory was what happened with TGL. I think Rory felt he would have gotten his own Team, like what Tiger got. But he didn't (or at least it doesn't appear so). LIV may offer him a team. LIV teams have more upside now than TGL at this point.
@ThinkingManShow As you guys said from your 7 families video last year, they all know the truth re golf. LIV has shown a route to other revenue streams for those with imagination like SSG. It's y SSG really wants LIV in this venture. They don't want to be saddled with carrying a model that has no revenue potential alone.
@ThinkingManShow TGL isn't dead...yet. I think Tiger is trying to salvage it and it's one of the reasons for the protracted delay. You see how long SSG is taking to confirm their agreement? I am not at all surprised it's taking this long. Too many conflicting interests on PGAT side.
Rory and Brooks have become good friends recnelty, as have their wives. Between he, Rahm and Yasir he's come to see the light of LIV's vision and is dropping subtle hints left and right why team golf has a place and a global golf tour is a necessity, laying the groundwork for his eventual departure to LIV.
At the end of the day, Rory is a professional golfer, not a politician. It's understandable for him to have evolved his opinions or even made some missteps when commenting publicly about complex issues facing the sport. He's still a fairly young guy trying to find his voice. Rory shouldn't be held to the standards of a seasoned politician or spokesperson - his job is to play great golf and contend for majors. The scrutiny he faces any time he makes a comment is immense compared to other athletes. Rather than attacking him for changing stances or speculating about ulterior motives, Rory should be given some grace to articulate where he stands without having everything dissected so critically. Even the great Tiger Woods has said things he later walked back - it's part of maturing in such an intense spotlight. At this stage, with so much turmoil surrounding professional golf, Rory's voice still carries weight when he chooses to speak up. But his ultimate job is to keep playing at an elite level. The best thing for him and the sport is to let Rory focus on his greatest talent - being one of the top golfers in the world. Constant criticism and questions about his motivations are an unnecessary distraction. Hence, he has stepped away from his roles involving the PGA Tour. Let's judge Rory by the brilliance he shows on the course. If we allow him space from the political fray, he has proven how compelling he can be for growing interest and visibility in the sport. That will ultimately have a bigger impact than any comment he makes or stance he takes on organisational changes he has little control over.
I think 20 big events is too many. The previous golf world of 12 (4 majors, players, 3 playoffs, 4 WGCs) is enough with maybe 4 more. Increase WGC to 8 which is what LIV would become with a team element. There could also be an additional LIV/WGC team championship.
the thing that still annoys me is that the 'pga'ofiles are continually happy to slag off liv, but to golf lovers outside america, it is just another option to watch top quality golfers. to get younger viewers it has to be on platforms like you tube and others, as that's the way we watch liv in australia, as you guys have said we need to get the 30 year olds hooked as we 60 year olds are already. keep up the great conversations
Nike still seem to be supporting Brooks and Smash GC. So I don't think they are out of golf yet, just not all in on TW anymore. Perhaps they will soon be investing in LIV.
I told you all from a long time that Tiger and Rory have fallen out from Ryder Cup. The betrayal of DPWT by PGAT was a key factor. Rahm and others spoke to Rory and Rory saw the light.
I don't think Rory did a 180 at all. He still thinks there's a chance to relegate LIV to a couple weeks of the year. What do you guys make of the R&A CEO and the DP Tour CEO both leaving?
I think the more interesting part of this is how does the lower levels of golf become more meritocratic… KFT, Canadian, Latin American tours are just another massive financial barrier for a good am without status. Open events should have more spots so we see the actual best players playing. Like Patrick Reed and how he made it.
If PGA is really strapped for cash they can sell Canada/Latinoamerica to PIF $300M later you have a rival to the Korn Ferry Tour and a second feeder to LIV Golf/Asian Tour Stay tuned...
But what if Japan gets a "major tournament", would Honda be willing to put up 20 million for that, as opposed to the 9 million for a Florida tournament? Herman
Well that would require the Japan Golf Organization to do a 180 If they allowed Matsuyama to join LIV then I see this happening Japan should have bid for an International Series event ages ago
Happy new year thinkers…….having sold his stake of the NBA franchise in Charlotte, what about Jordan becoming a (obviously non-playing) team owner of another added team?…
@@ThinkingManShow very good question. Mostly old idiots like me. 70 plus. As the liv is a 3 day event. The senior could be 2. Saturday and Sunday. Could mix with the smart ladies, on occasion. People of my age, just like to see the stars we remember. As well as the next generation.
Got a crazy idea to increase viewership / entertainment - especailly for LIV. Have playoffs for 2nd place as well as first place - if there is a tie for 1st or not. There is so much money even for 2nd place now and there is usually nothing more exciting than playoffs. And why not? Look what they did with baseball. There's no reason they couldn't do a playoff where there is a tie for 2nd place.
What's so sacred about the PGATOUR? I don't agree with everything about LIV but at least they hold events outside North America in the UK, Australia, Singapore, Europe etc. If the PGATOUR want to be recognised as the world's premier golf tour then they ought to have staged more major events outside America instead of just creaming off the world's best players and gaming the world ranking points to their advantage. Now someone else has beaten them to it and they have way more resources than the PGATOUR could ever dream of. I enjoy the top PGATOUR events such as Riviera, the Memorial and Bay Hill and hope they endure as we know it but the rest of the world want their fair share of the action too now, and not before time
The grapevine says Jon has recruited Tyrrell Hatton - a good fit and LIV addition - as well as Caleb Surratt and Keiran Vincent to his Legion XIII team and that's the lineup for Mexico this week.
Rory now realises that the World tour concept is going to happen with or without him , he just protecting his own interest , he can see that the PGA tour can’t do what they promised so he got out of that when he found out they haven’t got the money , Tiger’s ego is also a factor in this I believe
The Proletariat appreciate Global golf. Now to top it we see Rory do a 540. What is happening to the golfing world. Is it a paradigm shift. Man, 2024 is looking like it might be a doozy. I like that substitute idea. Then do we get coaches.. Will we have Jim Mclean, Claude Harmon, Hank Haney, Sean Foley..et etc.
The LIV qualification event was great viewing
I think Rory realized that the PGAT used him for two years...but the global vision for Golf MUST be international....the LIV model is good, but less events in the US.....Yes Norman did push a global tour concept for many years
I was shocked at how unenthusiastic Rory was when questioned about TGL in that interview. I think he's had a reality check (not only about LiV) but also about the lack of peoples interest in TGL 😂😂
It's definitely helped change his mind on the PiF merger.
Thx DoR........we have a new audio podcast "Rory split with Tiger?".
On thinkingmanshow.substack.com
Aussie Open being a major has been talked about since the 60's, Nicklaus, Player were saying that back in the day, and plenty of Aussies have said it over the years.
P.S. Rory is still a dick.
Bones should have dropped him at the Ryder Cup.
lol
An even bigger one now. I've been saying for over a year that he is a snake who happily threw his Euro pals under the bus just because they joined a different golf tour. This LIV situation exposed him badly.
There is a 5th major in the queue but I'm afraid it's called the Saudi International
'Bout time you guys reaappeared. A bleated Happy New Year to you both!
Between Rory's recent about face, Martin Slumbers resignation from the R&A yesterday and Keith Pelley's resignation from the DP World Tour today, you're seeing the Saudi PIF's non-violent takeover of professional men's golf in full view. It's been several year's in the making, but now you're seeing their masterplan executed in rapid fire succession. The resignations weren't coincendence. They were calculated departures. The last thing Jay's going to do before quietly exiting stage left in March is sign the working agreement giving the keys to the PGAT kingdom to Yasir Al-rumayyan. This will leave Greg Norman and or Colin Neville to run the new organization. Once the dust settles from the transition of power, the women's game will be targeted next. Unlike the PGAT, the commissioners and players of the LPGA and LET will not put up a fight and will quietly acquiesce to the Saudi PIF demand's. Once the Saudi PIF has full control of men and women's professional golf, the OWGR will immediately get on-board and figure out way to award points to those playing 54-hole team golf events or else find themselves on the outside looking in, as they'll be powerless and no longer needed. This has been a slow moving train until now, but this has been brewing since the formation of the Premiere Golf League (Colin Neville) in 2019. LIV effectively co-opted the PGL's format, as the PGL couldn't convince the PGAT to invest in it, nor did they didn't have the financial resources and investors to go it alone. The Sauidi PIF did, which is why we are where we are at today. Rory now sees the writing on the wall, which explains why he's quickly turned tail. Don't be surprised to see Rory become capatain and 25% owner of the 14th LIV team with Fleetwood, Hatton and either Fitzpatrick or McIntyre on his team.
Bodo! Some very good points! It would be great if Rory joined LIV...
Thx Mike!
Hey Bodo, how are you mate, great comments
@@dereckguilfoyle1219 Thanks, Derek! Doing well and hope you are also. Looks as though we are in for another crazy golf season.
I'm a ladies golf fan, the Saudis have been involved long before LIV with their high priced Aramco events on the LET and Saudi International which attract stars from LPGA, Korean and Japanese LPGA. I don't think they will expand beyond that, seems to be a happy medium for now. The LPGA is already more global hosting several events in Asia to cater to their top stars and the Korean and Japanese stars are happy playing in their native tours being showered in endorsements and being treated like celebrities as women's golf is more popular in Asia than here in USA
Pelley destroyed the Euro tour....a traitor
He certainly behaved like the PGATOUR's stooge, basically turning the DP World Tour into a glorified Korn Ferry Tour apart from a few events. I wonder what Seve would have had to say about it all
Paul my friend agree 100%
Farmers Insurance is pulling out of PGA sponsorship (they also pulled out of Insuring folks in Florida, so guess they don't have the money for sponsorship)
Maverick McNealy.
The 540 thing was pretty funny.
Tiger has been rather quiet. His options are very complicated. The pga tour and tiger are sort of married, and it’s much more complicated than regular marriage where you can just get divorced. There’s a lot of money at stake. Then again it’s a lot like tigers regular marriages.
Tiger's already gotten divorced so he can figure it out
@@DanielSong39one word: prenup
@@oahujuniorgolfassociationc6656 Does he have one with the PGA Tour
@@DanielSong39doesn’t seem like it.
Or Rory is still the front man for the PGA brass and his 540 spin just represents the 540 spin of the PGA brass. Still plenty of time for more spinning.
True Steve.
You can't believe one word that Rory says. He is one of the most disingenuous people on earth.
I proud to say I despised him long before it was fashionable, since 2010….and I’m Irish.
Jett.......Seems many Irish feel Rory abandoned them (and Euro tour) for America. Is their truth to that?
H. E Yasir was here in Morocco last week, id love them to bring LIV here, we have an Asian tour International series here already which was great to watch, we also had the ladies European tour q school here in December which was also great to watch, talking to the players at both of those tournaments, they love coming here to Morocco
LIV should go where fans will have them. Are there fans to support it there in Morocco?
@@ThinkingManShow not enough golf fans here, golf is 99% tourists
The cricket IPL team concept is an amazing success, 6 Week season worth billions worldwide, golf can definitely learn frrom the IPL
I believe that Rory's about face is all about the team aspect with equity for captains. He is on the outside of the future of golf. Think of where the LIV will be in a decade forward and Rory watching Rohm, Smith, DJ, Brooks, Phil, Bryson, Sergio, Neiman, Bubba, Louis O, and others have equity positions in high value teams. LIV was paying to play on the courses in 2022, now the courses pay LIV. The LIV business plan is brilliant in obtaining state/country tourism funds to sponsor tourneys. When in doubt follow the money $$$.
if LIV event at Valderrama last year was a success imagine this year with both Rahm and Sergio ...
The second betrayal of Rory was what happened with TGL. I think Rory felt he would have gotten his own Team, like what Tiger got. But he didn't (or at least it doesn't appear so). LIV may offer him a team. LIV teams have more upside now than TGL at this point.
TGL may in fact be dead. Not a bad bet.
And with Rahm out, Rory now has a ton of leverage over TGL because if he pulls out…..it dies.
@ThinkingManShow As you guys said from your 7 families video last year, they all know the truth re golf. LIV has shown a route to other revenue streams for those with imagination like SSG. It's y SSG really wants LIV in this venture. They don't want to be saddled with carrying a model that has no revenue potential alone.
@ThinkingManShow TGL isn't dead...yet. I think Tiger is trying to salvage it and it's one of the reasons for the protracted delay. You see how long SSG is taking to confirm their agreement? I am not at all surprised it's taking this long. Too many conflicting interests on PGAT side.
True. Good points.
Another GREAT show!
The names on the Australian open trophy are the whos who of golf, everyone should check out the list
Rory and Brooks have become good friends recnelty, as have their wives. Between he, Rahm and Yasir he's come to see the light of LIV's vision and is dropping subtle hints left and right why team golf has a place and a global golf tour is a necessity, laying the groundwork for his eventual departure to LIV.
At the end of the day, Rory is a professional golfer, not a politician. It's understandable for him to have evolved his opinions or even made some missteps when commenting publicly about complex issues facing the sport. He's still a fairly young guy trying to find his voice.
Rory shouldn't be held to the standards of a seasoned politician or spokesperson - his job is to play great golf and contend for majors. The scrutiny he faces any time he makes a comment is immense compared to other athletes.
Rather than attacking him for changing stances or speculating about ulterior motives, Rory should be given some grace to articulate where he stands without having everything dissected so critically. Even the great Tiger Woods has said things he later walked back - it's part of maturing in such an intense spotlight.
At this stage, with so much turmoil surrounding professional golf, Rory's voice still carries weight when he chooses to speak up. But his ultimate job is to keep playing at an elite level. The best thing for him and the sport is to let Rory focus on his greatest talent - being one of the top golfers in the world. Constant criticism and questions about his motivations are an unnecessary distraction. Hence, he has stepped away from his roles involving the PGA Tour.
Let's judge Rory by the brilliance he shows on the course. If we allow him space from the political fray, he has proven how compelling he can be for growing interest and visibility in the sport. That will ultimately have a bigger impact than any comment he makes or stance he takes on organisational changes he has little control over.
Another great show 👍
Thx Coo
B Team on fire this ep. Shot a 59. Great stuff
The Aussie Open doesn't have to be a major....but there must be say 20 big events (incl. majors) around the world that are big events
I think 20 big events is too many. The previous golf world of 12 (4 majors, players, 3 playoffs, 4 WGCs) is enough with maybe 4 more. Increase WGC to 8 which is what LIV would become with a team element. There could also be an additional LIV/WGC team championship.
the thing that still annoys me is that the 'pga'ofiles are continually happy to slag off liv, but to golf lovers outside america, it is just another option to watch top quality golfers. to get younger viewers it has to be on platforms like you tube and others, as that's the way we watch liv in australia, as you guys have said we need to get the 30 year olds hooked as we 60 year olds are already. keep up the great conversations
also team sports are where all the sponsors money is, look at tennis - which is half as popular as it was 20 years ago
Nike still seem to be supporting Brooks and Smash GC. So I don't think they are out of golf yet, just not all in on TW anymore. Perhaps they will soon be investing in LIV.
I told you all from a long time that Tiger and Rory have fallen out from Ryder Cup. The betrayal of DPWT by PGAT was a key factor. Rahm and others spoke to Rory and Rory saw the light.
Thx Stryder. You were on it.
I don't think Rory did a 180 at all. He still thinks there's a chance to relegate LIV to a couple weeks of the year.
What do you guys make of the R&A CEO and the DP Tour CEO both leaving?
Thx AR.........new RUclips show coming today on Martin Slumbers leaving suddenly.
I think the more interesting part of this is how does the lower levels of golf become more meritocratic… KFT, Canadian, Latin American tours are just another massive financial barrier for a good am without status. Open events should have more spots so we see the actual best players playing. Like Patrick Reed and how he made it.
If PGA is really strapped for cash they can sell Canada/Latinoamerica to PIF
$300M later you have a rival to the Korn Ferry Tour and a second feeder to LIV Golf/Asian Tour
Stay tuned...
But what if Japan gets a "major tournament", would Honda be willing to put up 20 million for that, as opposed to the 9 million for a Florida tournament?
Herman
Well that would require the Japan Golf Organization to do a 180
If they allowed Matsuyama to join LIV then I see this happening
Japan should have bid for an International Series event ages ago
Cmon guys, Peter Alliss talked about the 5th Major in the 70’s ( before you were born of course)
Happy new year thinkers…….having sold his stake of the NBA franchise in Charlotte, what about Jordan becoming a (obviously non-playing) team owner of another added team?…
Thx Andreas........we love the idea of having non-playing team captains; like a Lee Trevino. So why not Michael Jordan if fans would want that.
Rory wants to go to LIV.
Rory should be in Europe
outstanbding guys
Question. Your thoughts about an over 50 years of age. Liv tour.
Thx John. Who would be the target audience for a "Hall of Fame" (over 50) LIV Tour?
@@ThinkingManShow very good question. Mostly old idiots like me. 70 plus. As the liv is a 3 day event. The senior could be 2. Saturday and Sunday. Could mix with the smart ladies, on occasion. People of my age, just like to see the stars we remember. As well as the next generation.
I see a LIV team from Ireland, what do you think? as early as late 2024?
Would love a "LIV Ireland" team. Can we get LIV to change the team names at the same time? LIV Espana, LIV Australia, LIV Japan, LIV Florida.......
Got a crazy idea to increase viewership / entertainment - especailly for LIV. Have playoffs for 2nd place as well as first place - if there is a tie for 1st or not. There is so much money even for 2nd place now and there is usually nothing more exciting than playoffs. And why not? Look what they did with baseball. There's no reason they couldn't do a playoff where there is a tie for 2nd place.
He's a hypocrite!!! He should be embarrassed.
What's so sacred about the PGATOUR? I don't agree with everything about LIV but at least they hold events outside North America in the UK, Australia, Singapore, Europe etc. If the PGATOUR want to be recognised as the world's premier golf tour then they ought to have staged more major events outside America instead of just creaming off the world's best players and gaming the world ranking points to their advantage. Now someone else has beaten them to it and they have way more resources than the PGATOUR could ever dream of. I enjoy the top PGATOUR events such as Riviera, the Memorial and Bay Hill and hope they endure as we know it but the rest of the world want their fair share of the action too now, and not before time
Call it a McIlroy
It is a Flip Flop...
Mav McNealy dad founded Sun Micro Systems billionaire.
Rory is lobbying for a LIV contract
Phil and Greg want to get it done
Get it done
Does Jon Rahm have a team for February 2.
The grapevine says Jon has recruited Tyrrell Hatton - a good fit and LIV addition - as well as Caleb Surratt and Keiran Vincent to his Legion XIII team and that's the lineup for Mexico this week.
Rory now realises that the World tour concept is going to happen with or without him , he just protecting his own interest , he can see that the PGA tour can’t do what they promised so he got out of that when he found out they haven’t got the money , Tiger’s ego is also a factor in this I believe
Right on Gibo.
The Proletariat appreciate Global golf.
Now to top it we see Rory do a 540.
What is happening to the golfing world.
Is it a paradigm shift.
Man, 2024 is looking like it might be a doozy.
I like that substitute idea. Then do we get coaches.. Will we have Jim Mclean, Claude Harmon, Hank Haney, Sean Foley..et etc.
who is going to take any notice of Rory
You didn't even mention Slumbers going to PiF....
www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/jan/10/royal-and-ancient-chief-executive-martin-slumbers-announces-surprise-exit-golf
New show on Slumbers posts today Bill.
Tiger was a great golfer, but he is terrible for the future of golf. He is not a team player. His only goal is what is good for Tiger.
I hope LIV don’t go along with this ridiculous ball change.
Billionaires looking for fun things to do...
PIF people are serious....smart
Adam Scott..traitor
Get rid of PIF AND LIV