Drum Sander VS Wide-Belt Sander: What Should YOU Buy?!?
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- In this video, if you are a woodworker, then you are going to want to tune in, as I share my thoughts about what type of sander you should purchase.
I’ve been using a drum sander for years and it’s definitely one of the important tools in my shop. I like to run boards through the sander to make sure all the machine marks are sanded off and the boards are the same exact thickness.
I downsized a few years ago from the Performax 25 × 2 to this Jet 18-36.
For my small shop this little sander gets the job done. If you are a bigger production shop you might want to look into the Grizzly wide belt sander.
My friends over at Greene Street Joinery just picked one up for their shop so I thought we’d go over and take a look. Thanks for watching, Jon
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I fixed the weird feed belt tracking issue by removing it, flipping 180 degrees and reinstalling it. Works fantastic now. I think it has something to do with a bias in the belt's fabric weave that causes the original..."list to port." Cheers!
*This is exactly what I needed for trimming the edge of oak boards **MyBest.Tools** I also used the disk to round edges while building an oak - walnut cabinet.*
after seeing that open end wide belt sander I have a new dream tool. thanks a lot jon
Belt tracking issue: This may apply to your type belt as it is similar. I maintain a lot of treadmills, and every time a walking belt wouldn't stay on center, it was too tight. I loosen the bolts on both sides evenly until it slips, tighten both bolts just to where it doesn't, then adjust the bolt on one side or the other until it tracks. Can't hurt to try it. Also, clean under the belt. Use a small dowel to push a damp towel between the belt and deck, secure both ends of the towel, and run the belt around a few times. Belts can wear/stretch and cause that, but doubtful after only one year in a one man shop. We get 20,000-40,000 miles on a belt before replacing. Of course, if you ever have the belt off completely, wax the deck as you would your table saw top.
Before buying this sander I would use a rotary sander ruclips.net/user/postUgkx3Pc2vLXfcgM5oIpF1iYcIWyFhHUC-G6v and didn't see the need for a belt sander. Boy was I wrong. this belt sander does the job quickly and gives a professional finish to the wood work.
That was a very interesting video. I enjoyed learning about the wide belt sander even though I don't need it. It exceeds my budgets for cost, space and electrical power.
I have not convinced myself I need a drum sander yet, but I like what you showed about the Jet.
Thanks for the review. When I retired and set up my backyard shop I sold my 37" woodmaster drum sander due to space concerns and am now looking for a smaller sander. I will check this Jet machine out as part of my research.
Thanks Jon very informative I have never used one and tomorrow is my birthday :-) I think it would be a perfect match appreciate what you do thanks again.
I preferred to cut my own paper from a roll,bought a metal template to get the correct tail angles,plus you can add a bit of extra length for the clamps.
I've been thinking about getting a drum sander for a while, but I was wanting to use it mostly for SPF to remove the factory planer chatter. Thanks for pointing out that it gums up the machine.
When I had mine it did the same thing. I put a nut on the other end of the bolt to lock it in place. It did the trick for me.
I learned how to use my drum sander better from watching this, let alone all the other great info!
good review. I have both too. I have the old original Performax and yeah, the damn sandpaper feed belt always travels over too, and it is a PIA. In 18 years, I've NEVER had to adjust the rubber belt of the wide belt. it is obviously a pain to change paper compared to a wide belt, (I have the Asian made (probably similar to the Jet of 15 years ago open ended, 16" x 48 belt) fast belt change, takes 10 seconds, so you change when you want. Wash the belts every once in a while and they last a fairly long time. Hard to wash the Performax belts, never tried. (hardly use it anymore frankly). Same footprint size, so much faster and easier. Sure, us hobby craftsman can't afford the wide belt? Well, if you spend 50% of your time sanding stock, the hobby isn't fun anymore . I spend a day prepping stock maybe, but hell, then ALL those boards are thicknessed to the right measurement, to the right grit, so that later sanding is a breeze. All the use of Dominos is faster as everything is repeatable. You can run board on edge in gangs, If not too wide, (2 or 2 1/2" say). I have a 220 5 hp motor. WISH I'd gotten the 7 1/2 hp, 3 phase! Why? cause we all try to bite a bit more of a cut too often. you get to know your machine for sure. but having run thousands of lineal feet of wood thru the sander in the last 18 years. I know it well. I listen for the motor slowing down. CATCH it before it bogs!!!!!! If it does, you have to release that thickness, (crank it open a crank) FAST. if you don't, you will burn out the little piece of metal in the centrifugal clutch. (the one that disconnects from the capacitor start). When the motor stalls, all the power is going thru that metal piece and it will burn up. (ask me how I know? ) I've had it happen twice in 18 years. It isn't an expensive piece, but you have to remove the motor, (it is a HEAVY motor) 200 lbs? take it to the shop, get the new capacitor in there, new clutch metal, then return and get it re-installed. Will cost you a few hundred $ and 3 or more hours of work with a friend to help. I believe that with a 3 phase, that is not a problem! And VFD's can run these things fine on single phase 220 to 3 phase. Anyway, they ARE much nicer. much faster, better everything than the performax. (which I ran for 15 years and ran 1000's of feet thru that too, but it was a much more painful process. Now as long as the shop is free enough, I have plenty of air (they need a fair amount of air) and the DC is working well, then I can mindlessly run 100's of feet of wood. I do it with ear phones on, get it all done, then can process at my leisure.
Of course the oscillation of the wide belt makes a MUCH better surface than the drum sander. If you want, you can get platen wide belts that do even better. I don't have that.
Jon had trouble clamping the paper too, on his drum. It is fine once you do it first thing in the week, after that, it is fast enough, but still takes a couple minutes to change out. I do NOT buy them pre cut. much cheaper to buy 100' or longer rolls. but then you have to measure correctly and cut them.
My wide belt is not exactly the same as the Grizzly, (made by Shen Sheng or some thing) but mine is a bit beefier, and obviously might be the same manufacturer as Grizzly uses, just older.
And while the performax can do wide (maybe 32 or so?) I always could SEE the seam between the two passes. VERY hard to not be able to see and feel it. I adjusted it and even bought the little adjustment device, which helped, but never perfect. The wide belt IS darn good. Not to say you can't see it, but almost perfect. With some RO sanding afterwards, it is pretty invisible. Especially if you are talking say 20" or so. Fine for that. I can sand mine (two passes) and barely see it.
I use lots of belts. I have 30 grit, 60, 80, 100 120, 150, 180. I use different belts, and combinations. I tend to go to 120 at least, but 150 often, 180 maybe 25% of the time. I HAVE 220 and even higher, but rarely use that anymore. Too easy to burn. but if I was doing something that was doing a lot of pieces, especially shorter pieces, say 3 or 4 feet long, and I WANTED a really fine sanding, I might. Trouble is that there is still some chatter with it. So RO sanding afterward is more the common for me.
AS to the belts for the wide belt? Don't buy from someone like Grizzly, go direct to a sandpaper mfg. (currently trying someone by the name of Fintech abrasives) Buy in sets of 5 or more and you can buy different weights etc of paper, and get them for more like $20 or so per belt.
As to setting the thickness? yeah, tension the belt, turn on the conveyor, and you can tell when it starts to grab, even without the belt running. That gets' you closer than you will with the caliper. Remember, if you are starting out with wood that has come from the yard, or has snipe on the end, or is somewhat "twisted" then it might be fine in part of the length, then bog down. so you have to keep an eye on that amp meter. When it climbs up to a point, be concerned and ready to crank it looser if needed. As the guy demonstrating cranked it a full turn, I was a bit surprised, yeah, with maple, and all, that would be too much normally. He saw that too as it went thru. But because it was shorter, and not super wide, and the grit was 100, it made it. He was honest about it, not that much experience with it. They knew what they were doing. This will be a HUGE difference in their shop. yeah, the most expensive machine, but probably the most time saving machine they will have too. Now if they were able to go up to a 24" or a 36" then it would really be a savings. If you are working with figured woods like I do a lot, then it is hard to keep that planer from having tear out. So I thickness often with my widebelt.
good review. Hope maybe my own comments help someone. Wish I had the power to run a big widebelt, but find someone in your town that has one and will run stuff for you. I found a guy with a 47" wide belt, (2 belts, each on a separate 30+ hp motor, 5 hp feed, and HUGE DC, digital thickness, and all that. big footprint. Charges me about $100 an hour (or more) to run stuff, but he does most of the work. If a belt is destroyed or damaged, I pay. but that is fair. It saves SO much time. You can run some birdseye maple table tops thru and have one top and bottom sanded, (top to 180 or what) and bottom to 120? in 15 minutes. So I try to bring several things to sand. Get as much glue squeeze out scrapped off. He will appreciate it. hardened glue messes up belts.
Thank you for the video. I’ve got the Jet 10/20 - how I wish I had got the version that you have. I’ve got 2 issues with mine. The first is the worst. Unlike the 16/32, replacing the paper on the 10/20 is dreadful. You don’t get access from the top - but from the infeed side; access is awful; to compound this, you can’t fix the end end (the last bit that you clamp) of the paper without using the special tool that comes with the machine- it is dreadful. The second and lesser issue is getting decent paper to use; here in the UK, I can rarely find pre-cut, decent quality paper; I end up buying rolls of paper, including fabric-backed, Abranet etc, to get decent stuff.
As you say, you cannot set the machine to take off too much; my machine doesn’t have your setting warning but you know when it’s too much because the paper burns. I don’t use softwood (does plywood count?) but never take off more than 0.2mm at one go. Regular use of those crepe bars is essential to prolong the life of the paper.
I would give mine 1/10 for design and 8/10 for performance when it’s finally working
Please let me know if you want to swap my machine for yours; I will even throw in some paper!
I’ve got the Performax 16-32 drum sander. I tried replacing the conveyor belt for a new one about 12 months ago. I couldn’t get it to track correctly for the life of me. Decided to put the old one back on and had no problems getting it to track again. I put it down to the belt.
Brilliant review on the sanding machine and I think I will be investing in the jet 16/32 thanks for sharing I really appreciate your knowledge and experience cheers Phil 🇮🇪☘️😊
I've been considering the Jet 1632 vs the Supermax 1632 for my hobby shop. I have heard both good and bad about both. The salesman from Supermax demonstrated the belt change and it was a breeze. Also a couple of grand savings for the Supermax.
Bill
Interesting and informative. You can really get a nice, uniform finish with those machines.
Belt tracking is all about the belt...so I've heard. My Laguna tracked inboard with the stock belt. When it finally broke, I got a different brand and IT tracks OUTBOARD. BOTH belts tracked in the same direction EVEN IF I FLIPPED THEM. I called laguna and even they wouldn't offer any advice except that "it's all about the belt". I hope that helps.
I really enjoyed this video. Super informative and I’m in the market for a drum sander so this was super helpful. I’m looking at the jet 22-44. Thanks!
Wow. Sander envy!
Pretty interesting stuff, Jon! Thanks a bunch! 😃
Those machines are truly amazing!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Fold a piece of tape over the end of the paper, will make it easier to get into the clip.
Another key difference that wasn’t pointed out was that the wide belt has an adjustable platen. It can be disengaged for precise thickness sanding on the drum in special applications. Platen is much better for smoothness
Awesome video. Always great content. I enjoy your channel. Have a great year making stuff. I look forward to your content. Thanks a bunch.
I’ve got a 16/32 performax , it has always tracked to the left as well, I don’t even fight it anymore. I just move it to the right after a few projects.
Nice review, Jon. I have a 16/32 Performax that I bought in an estate sale for a great price and it looked to be barely used. The only adjustment I have difficulty with is getting the drum level to the sanding surface. It always seems as though the outboard end of the drum is higher than the inboard side. Either way, I really like using it. I haven't used it for any softwoods either, but I do get a slight amount of burning with light passes over Cherry. Apparently, Cherry is known to have tiny "resin pockets" that promote the burning. Always experimenting with settings though. :-)
Andrew, I have a perfomax, (I reviewed above) and they did make a little metal device that fits onto the attachment point on the outside end of the feed roller. this device connects the roller to the arm and by "pivoting" the attachment you can more effectively regulate the adjustment. This was an aftermarket device, made by Performax but not supplied WITH the machine. i don't know where you would find one, but I have one, so I know they are made and work.
Thanks for the review, I have to say for an $1800. dollar machine it appears to be very underwhelming. it's a shame that these sanders are so expensive for a powered roller with a strip of sandpaper on it.
They are about the simplest and cheapest shop built machines going. I have one that sands just over 600mm wide as I need to sand cabinet doors. Shop scraps, a cheap motor off ebay and less the $100 in hardware. Coming up on 16years old and all I've replaced is the main shaft bearings once.
I have a supermax 25x2 5 hp that replaced my old 16 incher. The belts do drive me crazy at times. When they drift, you need to tighten the bolts in the direction they are drifting, and then loosen the other side. Go easy with a 1/4 turn at a time. It always seems to bring them back in line for awhile.
Nice video Jon! Thanks for sharing it with us!💖👍😎JP
Awesome video, great overview. Glad to see everyone is enjoying their respective machines.
One of these days I’ll have to take a road trip and do a Matt Vis Shop tour video.
@@JonPetersArtHome more than welcome anytime! 👊
at 1:52 where you are standing, the 2 bigger knobs if those adjust the vertical of the table those need to move / pivot. I recently found my self scratching my head on a industrial belt sander. Its literally like a few thousandths brother, then that probably will be solves. Also if that does not fix it put a dial indicator on the bottom of the table some how, see if the table if flexing up , and down if it is whatever you did to fix the tracking , increase that by 100% to 400% then that should fix the flex once it starts. Now the other idea I got in my mind, is the roller itself is not balanced properly, then that's causing the resonant freq , to f itself up. I do not know the machine, that's just my input. My father has been building/ working on machines 40+ years, my uncle 30+ years industrial maintence, they taught me alot about these things. I am also nim certed as well. That is my 2 cents, probably will not work but worth a try. i fixed a radial arm saw the other day my father could not get to re square cause he is going blind, well never could square it to a few though in cuts. Yup did that to lol.
I have the jet 1020. Kicking myself for not getting the model you have. I found changing the paper to be incredibly difficult at first, but got the hang of it after a lot of swearing.
The belt will track towards the wider end, so tightening the opposite side that it’s tracking to will strengthen it up
Try adjusting the belt opposite of what you think it should be. Conveyor belts move "uphill" if that makes any sense. It's totally backwards to what any reasonable person would expect. I learned this one the hard way working on conveyor belts in factories. I know it sounds crazy, but give it a shot!
Hi Jon. Really enjoy your channel. I find your videos very helpful and informative. A question. What was the finish that the guys from Green Street mentioned? Vestig?
Jon, thanks for the extra effort to demo the paper change! Not sure I have the room for one with the in-feed and out-feed spaces. I have a small planer that rolls around on a dolly and tucks under my table saw, but it really makes a mess with wood chips, so I mostly roll it out onto the driveway to run.
Try taking the conveyor belt off and measure the inside diameter on each side. This will let you know if one side of the belt has stretched. If so, it would be best to buy a new one. You can splice a continuous belt, but is a pain in the rear.
Great review thanks man!
That was an informative video...I just use my (expensive) spiral planer with carbide inserts to get an almost finish ready surface, I don't have the space for a drum sander so I guess I will just use my ROS after the planer does its thing.
Great review! Thank you Jon!
Try wrapping a couple turns of electrician tape around the center of the roller. Too much tape will stretch the belt. I use this trick on my 6" belt sander with success.
Oh, this is brilliant. That will in practice turn it into a crowned roller and draw the belt to the center! Very cool idea!
I appreciate the review. I would have appreciated a bit more on the home shop sized sander as I don’t believe many of your viewers will be in the market for the commercial Grizzly unit. I own a Supermax and find it very handy when I need it.
I don’t think you can find a wide belt smaller than that one. I didn’t know anyone made them in single phase. Most are 480v 3 phase with 20-50hp motors
A friend of mine bought a Grizzly 36” wide belt maybe 15 years ago, it was junk. Hope they have improved
Just a thought. Take the off check underneath and turn it around. See if it still tracks left?
Hey Jon, thank you for this review! I'm noodling on this topic...thinking of importing a 32" dual drum sander from China, then modifying it to run 48" width chain-driven rollers I have from a motorized pallet conveyor. I'm basically after the lifting and drive mechanism from the import machine, so I do not have to completely reinvent the wheel. Desired use is to run table tops through it. Just an idea for now, but your video gave me some solid intel to consider.
Helpful info as always!
I replaced my conveyor belt last year and couldn't get the new one to track for the life of me. Ended up being a bad belt...got that replaced and it was all good.
Good to know, thanks Keith… I’m still having the same issue.
@@JonPetersArtHome Might be worth trying a different belt. I got my current one from 2sand. They first suggested that I remove the belt and flip it the other way. That didn't help with the bad belt. Could try that without buying anything though.
Maybe a trick I use with my hand sanders would work here. I tape a
1” tongue at the end of my sanding paper to help pull it in place. Once locked you can trim it off or leave it. I don’t know if it will work here with your sander when replacing the paper but worth a try I guess. Let me know if this works?
Jon - thank you for the video. I have been debating the need. It is a significant investment for a small business. For the tracking issue have you tried loc-tite. You likely have - just thought I would throw it out there.
I've got the 16" version in a school shop. The kids frequently use it to reclaim pallet wood which is often very pitchy. It has been a workhorse for three years now.
I use a "clothes pin" type spring clamp (small vise grips work too) to hold the inboard clamp (compressing both the tensioning spring and opening the clamp) in place ready to accept the end of the paper. I do wish they had made these so the paper wound on from the inboard to the outboard side. Although you CAN wind it on that way, the orientation of the tensioning spring makes it difficult to adeqautely tension the paper. I keep a latex cleaning stick close to the sander and give the drum a pass every time I use it.
I also keep a spray bottle of blade cleaner (CMT Orange) near the sander and give the drum a spritz whenever pitch begins to build up on the sand paper. I always run the feed at 100% and let the "smart sand" feature slow down the machine if necessary. If it does, I back off the depth of cut and check to see if I have loaded up the belt with pitch. In my wholly unreliable opinion, running the boards through as fast as possible keeps the stock cooler and reduces the build up of pitch.
If a belt does get badly clogged, I remove it from the machine, spray it thoroughly with blade/bit cleaner, and after it soaks in a bit, scrub the belt in a pail of hot soapy water using a nylon brush, then hang it to dry. The cloth backing seems to hold up well to at least 3 cleanings like this, but the ends catastrophically tear off after the belt is removed and replaced a couple of times.
Excellent video! Would you recommend this machine for epoxy river tables?
I have a carbatec machine but it's same belt loading system with the spring loaded clamps which I do not like I would prefer that they would use some sort of screw system where you use a screwdriver I think that would make life a little easier and because you're in a workshop everyone should have access to a screwdriver but I love the machine
But what about the in-between? The Jet Oscillating Drum Sander?😀
Nice vid Jon, thanks. I just picked up a used one in mint condition but wondering what grit sandpaper to use
Jon I have a Super Max 18/36 drum sander which is the same as your machine and like your machine regardless what adjustments I made it would not hold true . I let it run into the side and killed the belt put a new belt on adjusted it and not been touched since . Instructions with new belt said to discard ceramic guides
Could you add some nuts to the adjusting bolt to lock it in place?
Great review. Do you have any suggestion for belt sander for small shop? Also who is your favorite wood supplier in NJ? Thanks a bunch!
Assuming you mean a wide belt, I'd recommend the 37" timesavers speedsander. Can be run with single-phase power, has casters so it isn't too hard to move and 37" will handle most things a small shop will need. I have one and have used it for hundreds of butcher blocks and it's worked well. The grizzly open-ended may work well too, but it's smaller and getting a good clean double pass is difficult I've heard. Make sure you have good dust collection for any one you get.
Great video
U should Use double nut tightening system after adjusting the machine
Thanks for the review. I have the same Jet model and never suspected or realized that there is a problem with this one-sided drag that causes the feed belt to mis-track the workpiece. Have you talked to the JET tech to see if there is a solution or they are aware of the design flaw?
My belt sanders hand held at my business, if they are installed to wrong way they will crawl or fly off. Look and see if they have arrow t showing the direction if ration
Ya never know ya need it til ya need it. I would skip the drum sander and get the wide belt it will pay its self off between time spent changing paper and closer to finish sanding plus the open end makes it as effective as a 30 in wide
belt could be stretched to much,or to much friction resistance from bearing or bushing,remove roller and look for wearing around shaft and bearing surfaces,reassemble components ,with new parts if needed,grease and realign bearings or bushings ,check all stationary mounts for rigitiy and other components.
8:24 Hey Jon, I'm curious about your dust collector switch - that's a Lutron Caseta switch, is your dust collector connected to a 120v smart outlet, or have you found a 240V one that works?
HELLO DO YOU RECOMMEND THIS TOOL? OR BETTER ANOTHER BRAND MODEL?
Jon, any update or fix found on the belt issue?
Not yet, I’m still working with the same issue.
Question… I’ve just gotten into epoxy and wondered if u can fine sand wood with epoxy?
Shouldn’t be a problem, just make sure the Apoxsee is completely cured and don’t take off too much in one pass.
I see a lot of epoxy projects here on RUclips, and I have to say I think most of them will fail… Wood moves, and that will cause havoc with the epoxy over time.
What digital readout did you end up installing on your wide belt sander?
Is green street joinery still very happy with their Grizzly belt sander ??? Or.. do they wish they had a different machine??
Yes! They use on just about every project… Jeff talks about it in the recent shop tour… check it out here ruclips.net/video/Un5Bqh0V2n4/видео.htmlsi=LNfPHDeJze7oX6kv
Picked up a Performax 16-32 a while back and absolutely love having a drum sander in my small shop, use it all the time!
Quick question. Is your dust collector 120V? I notice you use the Lutron pico remote for your collector switch. I used that for my small 1H collector, but my 2H is 220V and haven't figured out a way to use the wireless switch setup to run the 2H collector.
Run your DC through a heavy duty HVAC contactor. Use your wireless to energize the solenoid on the contactor.
I'm curious to know how the Jet does with sanding end-grain (like cutting boards)...
I haven’t tried sanding end grain grain yet…should be okay a little at a time
I bought my single head 37x60 Timesavers SpeedSander 20 years ago for $7k. I wonder how much it would cost now...
Hey Jon. Just curious, why do you have a cast iron pan hanging in your workshop (just to the left of your electrical panel)? lol
Hey William, ha ha good eyes… we use it for cooking at the outdoor kitchen.
The Roller that adjusts the tracking does not have a crown to it. That creates the tracking issue. That is simply a design flaw.
I am not a fan drum sanders, they're not very accurate, under powered, slow, they burn paper pretty quick even at light passes, and most of all they leave heavy scratches that you still have to go back and sand out by hand. That being said that little wide belt, to me wouldn't be worth the money spent. I paid $1000 more than that and bought a used timesavers 137, it was made in the 90's it weighs 3000 pounds has a 20hp motor, and does a fantastic job. I will do 36 inches. Now I know that most people dont have the space and the electrical to run a machine like that, I would suggest finding a cabinet shop that has something like that and having them run it for you. It will give you a better job and you'll lay out a lot less money
I thought the only lonely place was on the moon. Grizzly!
Do you ever use one of those sand paper erasers to extend the life of the paper? I have not tried them but understand that they make quite a difference and can also keep the finish more even. I’m curious if there is truth to that.
Try a scrub with Easy Off Oven Cleaner, wash off, dry. We use with our big wide belt and get several recycle out of the belts.
@@jimlambrick4642 interesting. Thanks for the info!
Why does my belt sander leave marks?
I had the 16/32 -- HAD being the key word. So incredibly unimpressed with that machine in every way. Anyway, with your belt try buying a new one from klingspoor, that fixed that problem for me. Factory belt just has problems.
your smaller machine looks like it takes up the same space if you take into account the wide stance of your legs. it might be a little bigger even.
some water damage in that window jamb. lmfao.
If all else fails on belt tracking, it is time to replace the belt.
How fixin to much money in paper sander
Jet makes a oscillating drum sander for 3k
The wide belt sander is extremely noisy.
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@@FinishCarpentryTV You should ban those bots from your channel
How's that going for ya?
Looks like beer 30 at 1.30.
3 guys all doing the same thing, nothing. lol
That's really not very user friendly.
I have the jet 1020. Kicking myself for not getting the model you have. I found changing the paper to be incredibly difficult at first, but got the hang of it after a lot of swearing.