Agree on most points Armen. Given Roza’s background, we can assume he is going to streamline data and analytics into a more cohesive cloud based system. GG let the ecosystem evolve and that brought a lot of creative entrepreneurial spirit into CrossFit but also has created some member service gaps. Two examples include the wonkiness of Wodify and third party programming that is geared towards competitor level WODs as opposed to Masters or scaled beginners that may become disillusioned after a few months of not being able to complete workouts. It appears Roza did his “listening tour” with the affiliates and is now moving into his action plan. It makes sense that he would prioritize the affiliates because that is what drives revenue for the company. It will be interesting to see what he does once he moves on to the competitive side of the business. I hope he cleans house and brings in his own team that will build a much more media-friendly presentation that grows participation rather than builds workouts around endemic sponsors.
I wonder if gyms could market this to their advantage. "We use CrossFit HQ training. The best programing in the world!" As a consumer, it's hard to distinguish between good and bad programming until you try a gym for a bit.
I’d agree with that if CrossFit could truly claim it’s the best? The team behind CAP are solid, but so are lots of others programs, and “best” is subjective. A marketplace with a variety and different biases is what I would bet on.
It will be interesting to see if this changes the model and delivery of coaching certs. Whether it will increase or decrease any emphasis on programming/workout building based on understanding of the movements taught.
The way you see this developing reminds me not only of peloton but also of the Apple ecosystem where an iPhone is the entry to the garden and everything there entices you to stay within. Have your affiliation and you can take advantage of this sort of thing - programming, payment processing, progress tracking, intra gym and between gym game-fication… some of the things gyms currently have to pay multiple providers for, and some creative new features that may land well with consumers
Do you think CrossFit will restrict access to products like this (to affiliates only) in the long term or sell it to anyone like all the competitors in the space will?
I’ve been to a fair amount of affiliates, there is a need for lesson planning, and smart programming for your everyday athlete. Without being critical, too many gyms have programming that is either way too difficult or way too easy. It’s a hard balance to find. This is a great move, and the fact that it’s optional is even better.
@@breakerstrength9535 true! With proper lesson planning, it makes the coaches job easier. There are varying levels to coaching ability, having a set plan in place can take them to the next level.
I agree that coaching ultimately makes the difference - and I’d even argue that for most members of affiliates, the experience of being at the gym and in the class is more important than the specific programming, as long as the programming and session plan meets a certain quality level
I think this is the beginning of an American crossfit pro league. The stronger boxes are the franchise teams with the pros and semi pros and their affiliates are feeder clubs to provide new athletes to recruit as they show talent. The franchise boxes would go against each other in home and away fixtures to win a club championship
As an affiliate owner with a tech background and experience in mergers and acquisitions, I have to say Armenian your assessment is probably spot on. This is the gateway to the data and to be able to quantify their market size. Probably less for an external audience and more for internal usage for new service/product targeting, increased sponsorships revenue demands and data to fuel new initiatives or lines of business. One thing comes to mind though - will this be available if I do NOT have an affiliate? Long term it seems silly for CrossFit to not target it’s products to everyone, not just those that choose to affiliate? Does SugarWOD now have to validate you are an affiliate before it will let you buy the program? I doubt that infrastructure is ready today.
CrossFit or Corp-Fit. I feel for the smaller programing businesses mentioned in the comments. Is it not the same big foodstore chains out pricing the local mum and dad cornerstore for a carton of milk?
I agree with you, Armen. Also, Hamplan has been a faithful follower of the CrossFit methodology and has been applying it religiously as is written in the L1 and L2 booklets, as both Malleolo and Hobart are HQ Seminar Staff - and that, for me, it is a big problem. Most of the approach on those books it is old fashioned and don't relate to the actual demands of members, whether they train for recreational purposes or to become a competitor.
Often, “old fashioned” is actually what works best. I’m not necessarily excited about CrossFit becoming more homogenized, but the one part of this I am greatly supportive of is the adherence to the original CrossFit methodology. It works, and just because many gyms have strayed from it doesn’t make them right. Look at some of the best gyms, coaches, and programmers in the CrossFit space - Pat Sherwood, Chris Spealler, Ben Bergeron, and the HAM plan crew - some may program extra for their “competitors” but the core of all of their programs is constantly varied, functional movements executed at high intensity. One workout per day. Balance organic and neurological development. Regularly learn and play new sports. Build your fitness to enjoy or prosper in life outside of the gym. CF methodology “as is written in the L1 and L2 booklets” is genius in its approach, and Glassman and his old-school crew were wellsprings of knowledge about fitness. I suggest you revisit the old CF Journal articles with an open mind and a thirst to learn.
@@spencergsmith If you see any of Bergeron's or Mayhem's or MisFit's program for their athletes, they can nothing to do with the 'core' work you mention. Their adaptations, stimuli, volume and skills differ enourmously to the 'original CrossFit methodology" you mention.
@@Wotan123456789 what do you mean when you say 'core' work? Also, I never mentioned Mayhem or MisFit. I did reference Bergeron (as well as HAM Plan, Chris Spealler, and Pat Sherwood), and I know they follow traditional CrossFit methodology in their programming, and it works tremendously.
@@spencergsmith you mentioned that Bergeron and other throw an additional but the 'core' of their programme is traditional... and I say you are mistaken.
@@Wotan123456789 would you care to support that opinion with any evidence? CompTrain (Bergeron's programming) is a competitor's program, yes, but the primary workout of each session (the workout that CompTrain Class receives) absolutely follows traditional CrossFit methodology. I can't speak for Mayhem or MisFit, but CrossFit Linchpin (Pat Sherwood), Speal Programming (Chris Spealler), and HAM Plan (Austin Malleolo, James Hobart, Spencer Hendel) also all focus on a single primary WOD each day (even if HAM Plan offers additional strength or accessory work IF you want it). Not to mention CrossFit.com... high-power couplets and triplets, heavy days, some chippers, and occasionally long workouts -- this type of program works while still allowing time for coaching, community, and life outside the gym. I know because that's exactly the type of programming I run at my gym, and I've seen better results from that combined with focused coaching than adhering to competitor programs with loads and loads of volume. "Be impressed by volume, not intensity." You seem to be speaking about something you don't fully understand. I suggest you do some research before making these kind of assumptions.
Looks like some variant of what Les Mills are doing? A one programming fits all á la McDonalds, a Big Mac is the same wherever in the world you are, now the hour at the gym will be too? Seems kinda boring, but if you for some reason betong to a gym with so-so programming this will of course be an improvement (question is, why are you at a facility with so-so programming?)
Well I know a lot of successful gyms with so-so to bad programming. Churning through newbies to CrossFit makes it so they don’t know any better. The “cream will rise to the top” model counts on people being highly educated on the product/service… and most people aren’t when they’re new to the space.
Feels like the beginning of turning into a business model like Orange Theory or Pure Barre. And those were flashes in the pan. Quick. Popular. Lucrative. And I feel like local comps could be less exciting. We all program the same so there is no pride in our local box programming. Idk could be great. Hopefully IS great. But feels stale.
Am i being somewhat naïve in thinking that if the back room software and programming ends up costing an gym more to be affiliated, wont those gyms pass that cost onto their members in monthly fees? Crossfit gyms are already 20-50% more expensive than other function fitness options or gyms in most areas. Yes data is key to decision making. 100%. But all the extra cost is going to have to bring significant benefit to gyms otherwise they will just find themselves priced out of the market. Or Crossfit just becomes even more of a rich persons pastime.
If you think Comptrain, Mayhem and PRVN, they are all programs built by those training Games competitors. They can still sell their programming to aspiring or current Games athletes. They are a rare breed and the other 99% of the affiliate membership just want a good workout they can finish and won’t give them tendinitis or wear them out if they choose to go 5-6 days a week.
I personally took a lot of pride in developing and implementing the programming at my affiliate, but for an enterprise solution spending $1800/year to take that off your plate and have lesson plans provided is certainly enticing for many affiliates.
CrossFit lost its edgeiness when they signed with Reebok 🤣🤭 body pump, anyone? The athletes must've hated wearing day-glo orange kit at the games 🤭. CrossFit's probably going to morph into a more typical franchise model... It's a shame, but from a business perspective it's just not strategic enough to expose your brand to this much variation in service and experience and still expect grow on a global scale...
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Our box loves and is THRIVING on Mayhem’s affiliate programming. We have no plans to change to CrossFit’s.
Would love to see more gymnastics strength/skill work along with a longer conditioning portion each week though
You don't have to. The two gyms I go to use PRVN and CompTrain. CF's programming is an option
Agree on most points Armen. Given Roza’s background, we can assume he is going to streamline data and analytics into a more cohesive cloud based system. GG let the ecosystem evolve and that brought a lot of creative entrepreneurial spirit into CrossFit but also has created some member service gaps. Two examples include the wonkiness of Wodify and third party programming that is geared towards competitor level WODs as opposed to Masters or scaled beginners that may become disillusioned after a few months of not being able to complete workouts. It appears Roza did his “listening tour” with the affiliates and is now moving into his action plan. It makes sense that he would prioritize the affiliates because that is what drives revenue for the company. It will be interesting to see what he does once he moves on to the competitive side of the business. I hope he cleans house and brings in his own team that will build a much more media-friendly presentation that grows participation rather than builds workouts around endemic sponsors.
This is a way standardize the method and even more , the most absent thing in a ton of CF boxes, coaching.
I wonder if gyms could market this to their advantage. "We use CrossFit HQ training. The best programing in the world!"
As a consumer, it's hard to distinguish between good and bad programming until you try a gym for a bit.
I’d agree with that if CrossFit could truly claim it’s the best? The team behind CAP are solid, but so are lots of others programs, and “best” is subjective. A marketplace with a variety and different biases is what I would bet on.
It will be interesting to see if this changes the model and delivery of coaching certs. Whether it will increase or decrease any emphasis on programming/workout building based on understanding of the movements taught.
The way you see this developing reminds me not only of peloton but also of the Apple ecosystem where an iPhone is the entry to the garden and everything there entices you to stay within. Have your affiliation and you can take advantage of this sort of thing - programming, payment processing, progress tracking, intra gym and between gym game-fication… some of the things gyms currently have to pay multiple providers for, and some creative new features that may land well with consumers
Do you think CrossFit will restrict access to products like this (to affiliates only) in the long term or sell it to anyone like all the competitors in the space will?
@@tonyholbrook5884 since it reminds me of Apple a ton, I’d say they lock it in and only offer that stuff to affiliates
Very Good thorough discussion Armen....what year do you think the Private Equity and Rosa have an IPO or a sale ? 4, 5,7 years ?
I would imagine 2025/2026
I’ve been to a fair amount of affiliates, there is a need for lesson planning, and smart programming for your everyday athlete. Without being critical, too many gyms have programming that is either way too difficult or way too easy. It’s a hard balance to find.
This is a great move, and the fact that it’s optional is even better.
The balance comes from coaching. The programming has very little to do with it.
@@breakerstrength9535 true! With proper lesson planning, it makes the coaches job easier. There are varying levels to coaching ability, having a set plan in place can take them to the next level.
I agree that coaching ultimately makes the difference - and I’d even argue that for most members of affiliates, the experience of being at the gym and in the class is more important than the specific programming, as long as the programming and session plan meets a certain quality level
I think this is the beginning of an American crossfit pro league. The stronger boxes are the franchise teams with the pros and semi pros and their affiliates are feeder clubs to provide new athletes to recruit as they show talent. The franchise boxes would go against each other in home and away fixtures to win a club championship
As an affiliate owner with a tech background and experience in mergers and acquisitions, I have to say Armenian your assessment is probably spot on.
This is the gateway to the data and to be able to quantify their market size. Probably less for an external audience and more for internal usage for new service/product targeting, increased sponsorships revenue demands and data to fuel new initiatives or lines of business.
One thing comes to mind though - will this be available if I do NOT have an affiliate? Long term it seems silly for CrossFit to not target it’s products to everyone, not just those that choose to affiliate? Does SugarWOD now have to validate you are an affiliate before it will let you buy the program? I doubt that infrastructure is ready today.
I like the idea. I think it’s good for boxes that need good programming. Especially if you have friends at other boxes, you can geek out on workouts
A lot of good analysis here and points made here.
CrossFit or Corp-Fit. I feel for the smaller programing businesses mentioned in the comments. Is it not the same big foodstore chains out pricing the local mum and dad cornerstore for a carton of milk?
I agree with you, Armen.
Also, Hamplan has been a faithful follower of the CrossFit methodology and has been applying it religiously as is written in the L1 and L2 booklets, as both Malleolo and Hobart are HQ Seminar Staff - and that, for me, it is a big problem. Most of the approach on those books it is old fashioned and don't relate to the actual demands of members, whether they train for recreational purposes or to become a competitor.
Often, “old fashioned” is actually what works best. I’m not necessarily excited about CrossFit becoming more homogenized, but the one part of this I am greatly supportive of is the adherence to the original CrossFit methodology. It works, and just because many gyms have strayed from it doesn’t make them right. Look at some of the best gyms, coaches, and programmers in the CrossFit space - Pat Sherwood, Chris Spealler, Ben Bergeron, and the HAM plan crew - some may program extra for their “competitors” but the core of all of their programs is constantly varied, functional movements executed at high intensity. One workout per day. Balance organic and neurological development. Regularly learn and play new sports. Build your fitness to enjoy or prosper in life outside of the gym. CF methodology “as is written in the L1 and L2 booklets” is genius in its approach, and Glassman and his old-school crew were wellsprings of knowledge about fitness. I suggest you revisit the old CF Journal articles with an open mind and a thirst to learn.
@@spencergsmith If you see any of Bergeron's or Mayhem's or MisFit's program for their athletes, they can nothing to do with the 'core' work you mention. Their adaptations, stimuli, volume and skills differ enourmously to the 'original CrossFit methodology" you mention.
@@Wotan123456789 what do you mean when you say 'core' work? Also, I never mentioned Mayhem or MisFit. I did reference Bergeron (as well as HAM Plan, Chris Spealler, and Pat Sherwood), and I know they follow traditional CrossFit methodology in their programming, and it works tremendously.
@@spencergsmith you mentioned that Bergeron and other throw an additional but the 'core' of their programme is traditional... and I say you are mistaken.
@@Wotan123456789 would you care to support that opinion with any evidence? CompTrain (Bergeron's programming) is a competitor's program, yes, but the primary workout of each session (the workout that CompTrain Class receives) absolutely follows traditional CrossFit methodology. I can't speak for Mayhem or MisFit, but CrossFit Linchpin (Pat Sherwood), Speal Programming (Chris Spealler), and HAM Plan (Austin Malleolo, James Hobart, Spencer Hendel) also all focus on a single primary WOD each day (even if HAM Plan offers additional strength or accessory work IF you want it). Not to mention CrossFit.com... high-power couplets and triplets, heavy days, some chippers, and occasionally long workouts -- this type of program works while still allowing time for coaching, community, and life outside the gym. I know because that's exactly the type of programming I run at my gym, and I've seen better results from that combined with focused coaching than adhering to competitor programs with loads and loads of volume. "Be impressed by volume, not intensity."
You seem to be speaking about something you don't fully understand. I suggest you do some research before making these kind of assumptions.
Looks like some variant of what Les Mills are doing? A one programming fits all á la McDonalds, a Big Mac is the same wherever in the world you are, now the hour at the gym will be too? Seems kinda boring, but if you for some reason betong to a gym with so-so programming this will of course be an improvement (question is, why are you at a facility with so-so programming?)
Well I know a lot of successful gyms with so-so to bad programming. Churning through newbies to CrossFit makes it so they don’t know any better. The “cream will rise to the top” model counts on people being highly educated on the product/service… and most people aren’t when they’re new to the space.
Feels like the beginning of turning into a business model like Orange Theory or Pure Barre. And those were flashes in the pan. Quick. Popular. Lucrative.
And I feel like local comps could be less exciting. We all program the same so there is no pride in our local box programming.
Idk could be great. Hopefully IS great. But feels stale.
Am i being somewhat naïve in thinking that if the back room software and programming ends up costing an gym more to be affiliated, wont those gyms pass that cost onto their members in monthly fees? Crossfit gyms are already 20-50% more expensive than other function fitness options or gyms in most areas. Yes data is key to decision making. 100%. But all the extra cost is going to have to bring significant benefit to gyms otherwise they will just find themselves priced out of the market. Or Crossfit just becomes even more of a rich persons pastime.
Still waiting for CrossFit to make affiliation 3000 real instead of 3000 dollars here in Brazil. Paying five times as much is not worth it.
I dont think crossfit should be a product! It should be a sport
And a methodology
Wondering what other programming providers think about this.
"aw shit."
If you think Comptrain, Mayhem and PRVN, they are all programs built by those training Games competitors. They can still sell their programming to aspiring or current Games athletes. They are a rare breed and the other 99% of the affiliate membership just want a good workout they can finish and won’t give them tendinitis or wear them out if they choose to go 5-6 days a week.
Seems ridiculous. $150 for programming? Um no thanks.
I personally took a lot of pride in developing and implementing the programming at my affiliate, but for an enterprise solution spending $1800/year to take that off your plate and have lesson plans provided is certainly enticing for many affiliates.
Gyms ask their members for 150 a month so it shouldn’t be a big deal to pay that for this service.
@@ArmenHammerTV I get that. There’s just so much free programming out there.
@@Expliz Actually, there is so many free workouts out there. Programming is so much more than a single workout.
If you’ve ever had to program for a gym and done it of QUALITY you would think differently.
CrossFit lost its edgeiness when they signed with Reebok 🤣🤭 body pump, anyone? The athletes must've hated wearing day-glo orange kit at the games 🤭. CrossFit's probably going to morph into a more typical franchise model... It's a shame, but from a business perspective it's just not strategic enough to expose your brand to this much variation in service and experience and still expect grow on a global scale...
The late adoption is here.
They took too long
Negative thing….