Great video! Very explanatory with lots of maths. It all makes sense to maximise efficiency and help reduce running costs. Unnecessary over run pump reducing delta temperature which reduce condensing efficiency. An over run pump increases cavitation, which introduces air into the system which causes corrosion and sludge. Great stuff.
Really enjoy your videos. As technology takes over on non gas appliances, does that mean pretty much anybody with no real qualifications can install a heating or hot water unit with limited skills. When you consider wiping a lead joint was a skilled job for an experience plumber and now most would not even know was Tallow is or what and how it was used. It will be just a unit in which you just plug and play.
the opposite is actually happening. There is very few skilled plumbers/heating engineers out there. Most only know how to swap a combi. With heat pumps becoming mainstream the skills required are much more than to swap a combi and connect 5 pipes. although there may not be a legal barrier to installation as there is with gas, people will be for a shock if they try to install those appliances without proper training and skills.
Really enjoyable vid, excellent knowledge of these boilers. I haven’t installed any Intergas boilers for a few years. You’ve inspired me to try them again. As for cleanliness of systems, it’s not just about inhibitor. I’ve seen poorly maintained systems that are very clean and others that are power flushed, inhibited but then look really dirty again only a couple of years later. Maybe radiator quality is a factor. Who knows?
It depends. There is a lot of info there and to fully internalise it will take long time. The course itself can be probably done in around 2 weeks. Some people need months though.
I am a newcomer to your channel. This is my first experience with your videos. Maybe you've raised this issue elsewhere. I would be interested in the procedure for calculating the amount of water in the central heating system generally? In my opinion, this is important when designing a system. I don't want to drain all the water from my system?
Great video again, always really informative! I have also recently finished the Heat Geek course and couldn’t recommend it enough! Have you set this boiler to run constantly at 29% CH output with on/off controller? Or did you fit weather/load compensation control, if so what is the minimum InterGas boilers can run at? I know a lot of new boilers now go down as low as 10%!
When the outside weather compensation sensor is fitted, setting of the maximum heating kilowatts is not necessary as the control system then dictates how much kilowatts is need to keep the flow temperature. It can be left to maximum. The weather compensation control may want 50C flow temperature, the control system choses the kilowatts to suit. Setting the minimum and maximum of the pump's speed still may be needed. There is an advantage, as when on start up a cold system can take all the kilowatts that is thrown at it, so a faster warm up, so reduced cycling. If you set the kilowatts to the minimum, say 7 kilowatts, the boiler will never give more than 7 kilowatts.
Faster warm up is increases cycling and reduces efficiency. If you leave kW on max with WC the boiler may still unneccesarily try to throw more kW at lower temperature than is needed. I am preatty sure that range rating with WC is still beneficial, but I may be wrong.
@@UrbanPlumbers The control system throws as much kilowatts as it can down the flow pipe, while monitoring the delta t, then modulates down to suit. It monitors 1. the desired flow temperature. 2. the delta t. Modulating the burner to meet the two. By the time the delta t is closing up narrower than 20C the weather compensated flow temperature is about reached. A house may be quite cold inside maybe having been empty with the heating off for a few weeks, but the weather compensation only wants 50C flow temperature. What make it worse is that the kilowatts is capped to 7 kilowatts. It will take a while for the house to heat, while lots of kilowatts capacity is still in the boiler not being usefully used. I may also be worth looking at having the pump at a higher speed, and set to a low minimum speed as well, giving a wide speed range. The control system dictates the pumps speed to what it is aiming to do.
@@UrbanPlumbers I was in a hurry. My posts came across as terse. I failed to compliment and thank you. I like your vids do not get me wrong. Keep them coming. Intergas boilers need little setting up in the parameters. I have seen many fitted by plumbers, not heating men, in one and two bedroom flats, with on-off thermostats, just connected up out of the box. They work well as the control system selects the kilowatts, pump speed and flow temperature to the delta t at boiler set temperature. The only thing lacking was to increase the cycling time in the setting up. I am not saying just slam them in, although the designers must have taken into account less than competent people in commissioning the boilers when designing the control system, to keep them working well enough. Under weather compensation, there is no need to range rate. The great thing about weather compensation is that the boiler will seldom be subject to the burner giving out high kilowatts, and only when it is around freezing point which is rare in this country. Keeping the kilowatts as low as needed, that is less gas injected into the burner, must increase the life of the boiler, as the burner itself is not so hot. But on a combi it will be open to high kilowatts when drawing off hot water. Despite that, in the total running time the boiler will be running over a year, on lower water temperatures and on lower temperatures of the burner itself. Intgergas is a good boiler for sure. What I do not like about them is the steel mesh (like steel wool) burner. They call it a knit. I have seen these being replaced after only 4 years. That is not good enough. The burner is not a cheap item. I know some makes of boilers the burners "never" fail. If Intergas replaced the poor mesh burner with one which lasted the life of the boiler, it would be a bomb proof. I would guess that a system boiler under weather compensation would have the burner last much longer. Being subject to a high kilowatt burner rate cannot be good for these flimsy burners. I just realised how long this post is. :)
Just wish they’d make the interface more user/installer friendly. Most will never be touched once set up, but a more modern display and interface would really help.
@@UrbanPlumbers no. I’ve only commissioned one of these. Not sure about longevity of them either. Do like the lack of parts though. I spoke to guy today who has been offered a WB to replace the one he has. Sold on the fact engineers keep lots of parts. “ No need to keep parts if they don’t break down or aren’t there in the first place!” was my comment. Very well explained process in your video. Thanks.
Very interesting as my combi is towards the end of its life but I’m considering some solar water heating further down the line , this boiler could installed as a combi and later altered to work with a heat store and solar ?
Please don't adjust the maximum fan speed to gain more output, the setting should only be used to correct the gas rate bringing it back inline with the manufacturer's instructions. That's why there's scope above and below what's stated in the book, to allow for differences between fans valves the brass restrictor etc. Nice vid apart from that.
Question - my HRE40 can only heat to 70 when on DHW - 250 litre cylinder next to the boiler. If I range rate it higher it just cycles without pushing the temperature up. My pump is set to 20-99 %. Could it be that the pump is pushing too hard and overheating the boiler before it gets to temperature? Surely it should modulate down?
When set to PDHW the pump runs at maximum and isn’t adjustable. If it’s cycling then probably the coil can’t handle full power, or the resistance of the pipework is too great?
You can adjust both output and temperature on HRE for hot water. Most likely it is not set up correctly - to high. Change parameter 4 to 50. There is also another parameter to adjust flow temp on DHW demand that can be changed. Pump can also be adjusted.
Haha - that's a good one mate! Logics have no adjustment available to anything. It literally is a stick on the wall and turn it on boiler. It is truly awful when it comes to efficiency. Stick it in a small flat, and you get a system so over pumped that you get DT of a heat pump - LOL It is so called 'dumb boiler' designed not to be touched or adjusted. Heck, even the gas valve is not adjustable (You could sort of do it on earlier models, although Ideal does not allow it). Gas valve out of adjustment - new gas valve needed. The whole boiler is a total joke. Trust me I know, I fitted loads - never again! It may be relatively reliable, but apart from that is a pile of junk. And yes, I stupidly installed one of those in my own home :) Live and learn.
@@UrbanPlumbers Thank you. I found in the manual a setting to set the burner at minimum rate. Is that not making the unit to work at it’s minimum output? Also have the option of only setting the CH pump to 70%.
@@andreiturcan9692 minium setting is just for testing the combustion, not running the boiler. Newer logics may have an option of running the pump at 70% which is still most likely double of what it should be for most flats!
@@UrbanPlumbers thanks. So actually there is no luck to set it to minimum power output... the boiler is connected to 3 radiators and underfloor heating with 6 zones (4 separate rooms). All my heat loss is actually the minimum power of the boiler...
Great video! Very explanatory with lots of maths. It all makes sense to maximise efficiency and help reduce running costs. Unnecessary over run pump reducing delta temperature which reduce condensing efficiency. An over run pump increases cavitation, which introduces air into the system which causes corrosion and sludge. Great stuff.
Thanks for taking your time to explain
this.
I can vouch for kimbo's course, great course.
Great to get a recap from you,
Very well, explained!👍
yes, kimbos course is very good
I've recently recently discovered you and subscribed. Very good videos. Well done.
Welcome and thank you foe the comment !
your a very educated man .... God bless you always
Fantastic video, you know your trade, really enjoyed that one thanks 👌
Glad you enjoyed it
Really enjoy your videos.
As technology takes over on non gas appliances, does that mean pretty much anybody with no real qualifications can install a heating or hot water unit with limited skills.
When you consider wiping a lead joint was a skilled job for an experience plumber and now most would not even know was Tallow is or what and how it was used.
It will be just a unit in which you just plug and play.
the opposite is actually happening. There is very few skilled plumbers/heating engineers out there. Most only know how to swap a combi. With heat pumps becoming mainstream the skills required are much more than to swap a combi and connect 5 pipes.
although there may not be a legal barrier to installation as there is with gas, people will be for a shock if they try to install those appliances without proper training and skills.
Awesome tutorial Simon, very easy to follow. Keep putting out these tutorials, excellent work 👏.
Thanks!
Really enjoyable vid, excellent knowledge of these boilers. I haven’t installed any Intergas boilers for a few years. You’ve inspired me to try them again. As for cleanliness of systems, it’s not just about inhibitor. I’ve seen poorly maintained systems that are very clean and others that are power flushed, inhibited but then look really dirty again only a couple of years later. Maybe radiator quality is a factor. Who knows?
Yep, noticed that radiators quality makes a difference
Plastic pipework especially older stuff is detrimental to sludge build up.
Great video with some good knowledge, I have also done the Heat geeks course which was excellent
Seems a lot of my viewers have done it. It really is a good course.
How long will take to do heat geek course ?
It depends. There is a lot of info there and to fully internalise it will take long time. The course itself can be probably done in around 2 weeks. Some people need months though.
@@UrbanPlumbers thank you for respond Simon il do it hopefully when done my plumbing course in may 👍🏼❤️🙂
Hi, love your videos. What make of clamp thermometer do you use
Just wished you covered Scotland! Do you rate Intergas as excellent as I like idea of their hybrid system.
I am a newcomer to your channel. This is my first experience with your videos. Maybe you've raised this issue elsewhere. I would be interested in the procedure for calculating the amount of water in the central heating system generally? In my opinion, this is important when designing a system. I don't want to drain all the water from my system?
Great video again, always really informative! I have also recently finished the Heat Geek course and couldn’t recommend it enough! Have you set this boiler to run constantly at 29% CH output with on/off controller? Or did you fit weather/load compensation control, if so what is the minimum InterGas boilers can run at? I know a lot of new boilers now go down as low as 10%!
Yes this one is on 30%, HRE Rf can go to 5 and exclusive to 3.6. This one is just on/off.
Great video Chap🍺
Cheers 🍺
When the outside weather compensation sensor is fitted, setting of the maximum heating kilowatts is not necessary as the control system then dictates how much kilowatts is need to keep the flow temperature. It can be left to maximum. The weather compensation control may want 50C flow temperature, the control system choses the kilowatts to suit. Setting the minimum and maximum of the pump's speed still may be needed.
There is an advantage, as when on start up a cold system can take all the kilowatts that is thrown at it, so a faster warm up, so reduced cycling. If you set the kilowatts to the minimum, say 7 kilowatts, the boiler will never give more than 7 kilowatts.
Faster warm up is increases cycling and reduces efficiency. If you leave kW on max with WC the boiler may still unneccesarily try to throw more kW at lower temperature than is needed. I am preatty sure that range rating with WC is still beneficial, but I may be wrong.
@@UrbanPlumbers
The control system throws as much kilowatts as it can down the flow pipe, while monitoring the delta t, then modulates down to suit. It monitors 1. the desired flow temperature. 2. the delta t. Modulating the burner to meet the two. By the time the delta t is closing up narrower than 20C the weather compensated flow temperature is about reached.
A house may be quite cold inside maybe having been empty with the heating off for a few weeks, but the weather compensation only wants 50C flow temperature. What make it worse is that the kilowatts is capped to 7 kilowatts. It will take a while for the house to heat, while lots of kilowatts capacity is still in the boiler not being usefully used.
I may also be worth looking at having the pump at a higher speed, and set to a low minimum speed as well, giving a wide speed range. The control system dictates the pumps speed to what it is aiming to do.
@@UrbanPlumbers
I was in a hurry. My posts came across as terse. I failed to compliment and thank you. I like your vids do not get me wrong. Keep them coming.
Intergas boilers need little setting up in the parameters. I have seen many fitted by plumbers, not heating men, in one and two bedroom flats, with on-off thermostats, just connected up out of the box. They work well as the control system selects the kilowatts, pump speed and flow temperature to the delta t at boiler set temperature. The only thing lacking was to increase the cycling time in the setting up. I am not saying just slam them in, although the designers must have taken into account less than competent people in commissioning the boilers when designing the control system, to keep them working well enough.
Under weather compensation, there is no need to range rate. The great thing about weather compensation is that the boiler will seldom be subject to the burner giving out high kilowatts, and only when it is around freezing point which is rare in this country. Keeping the kilowatts as low as needed, that is less gas injected into the burner, must increase the life of the boiler, as the burner itself is not so hot. But on a combi it will be open to high kilowatts when drawing off hot water. Despite that, in the total running time the boiler will be running over a year, on lower water temperatures and on lower temperatures of the burner itself.
Intgergas is a good boiler for sure. What I do not like about them is the steel mesh (like steel wool) burner. They call it a knit. I have seen these being replaced after only 4 years. That is not good enough. The burner is not a cheap item. I know some makes of boilers the burners "never" fail. If Intergas replaced the poor mesh burner with one which lasted the life of the boiler, it would be a bomb proof. I would guess that a system boiler under weather compensation would have the burner last much longer. Being subject to a high kilowatt burner rate cannot be good for these flimsy burners.
I just realised how long this post is. :)
Nices glasses
Good luck 👍
Just wish they’d make the interface more user/installer friendly.
Most will never be touched once set up, but a more modern display and interface would really help.
Have you seen Xclusive interface?
@@UrbanPlumbers no. I’ve only commissioned one of these. Not sure about longevity of them either. Do like the lack of parts though. I spoke to guy today who has been offered a WB to replace the one he has. Sold on the fact engineers keep lots of parts.
“ No need to keep parts if they don’t break down or aren’t there in the first place!” was my comment.
Very well explained process in your video.
Thanks.
How do you make enough time to do this ?
Very interesting as my combi is towards the end of its life but I’m considering some solar water heating further down the line , this boiler could installed as a combi and later altered to work with a heat store and solar ?
Yes, you can Install as combi and later convert to system with solar
@@UrbanPlumbers That outstanding, i have a plan and place for everything with flow return mains cold and hot running through it as well , thank you
I thought most boilers are burner linked.
Please don't adjust the maximum fan speed to gain more output, the setting should only be used to correct the gas rate bringing it back inline with the manufacturer's instructions. That's why there's scope above and below what's stated in the book, to allow for differences between fans valves the brass restrictor etc. Nice vid apart from that.
Not what Intergas told me
Question - my HRE40 can only heat to 70 when on DHW - 250 litre cylinder next to the boiler. If I range rate it higher it just cycles without pushing the temperature up. My pump is set to 20-99 %. Could it be that the pump is pushing too hard and overheating the boiler before it gets to temperature? Surely it should modulate down?
Is it on S plan or PDHW?
@@UrbanPlumbers PDHW
When set to PDHW the pump runs at maximum and isn’t adjustable. If it’s cycling then probably the coil can’t handle full power, or the resistance of the pipework is too great?
You can adjust both output and temperature on HRE for hot water. Most likely it is not set up correctly - to high. Change parameter 4 to 50. There is also another parameter to adjust flow temp on DHW demand that can be changed. Pump can also be adjusted.
@@UrbanPlumbers The pump is fixed to max output when charging a cylinder.
Really enjoying your videos, by the way! 👍🏻
Can you add a video for IDEAL LOGIC boilers?
Haha - that's a good one mate! Logics have no adjustment available to anything. It literally is a stick on the wall and turn it on boiler. It is truly awful when it comes to efficiency. Stick it in a small flat, and you get a system so over pumped that you get DT of a heat pump - LOL
It is so called 'dumb boiler' designed not to be touched or adjusted. Heck, even the gas valve is not adjustable (You could sort of do it on earlier models, although Ideal does not allow it). Gas valve out of adjustment - new gas valve needed.
The whole boiler is a total joke. Trust me I know, I fitted loads - never again! It may be relatively reliable, but apart from that is a pile of junk. And yes, I stupidly installed one of those in my own home :) Live and learn.
@@UrbanPlumbers Thank you. I found in the manual a setting to set the burner at minimum rate. Is that not making the unit to work at it’s minimum output? Also have the option of only setting the CH pump to 70%.
@@andreiturcan9692 minium setting is just for testing the combustion, not running the boiler. Newer logics may have an option of running the pump at 70% which is still most likely double of what it should be for most flats!
@@UrbanPlumbers thanks. So actually there is no luck to set it to minimum power output... the boiler is connected to 3 radiators and underfloor heating with 6 zones (4 separate rooms). All my heat loss is actually the minimum power of the boiler...
No, that boiler does not allow maximum output to be set