I really like what you are doing for barebow and documenting your journey. It's all very helpful to many of us out here. These are my rig specs (for an aging light poundage archer) which allows me to aim point on at 50m. There may be something here that can help with your wife's tune towards 50m point on aim. Riser = Gillo G1; Limbs = Uukha Vx+ Medium 32#@27" draw; Tiller = 0; Brace height = 210mm; String = Angel Majesty 777 14-strands; Arrow = Skylon Paragon (ID 3.2mm), Arrow length = 27"; Arrow weight = 192gn; Arrow point weight = 60gn; FOC = 12.5%; vanes = XS Wings 40mm; Arrow speed = 204fps (based on 218mm brace height). I anchor under my cheekbone and manage point on aim with a 5mm crawl. Hope this is useful and happy to contribute to your database. Cheers!
It's great to see you and Heather shooting together! This really opens up a whole new avenue for the female audience & a beginners travails into archery.😊
I struggled for years to get 50 meters from my setup until I moved my anchor down my face, even just one finger should give you another 5 meters. Also you are allowed to face walk in barebow so you can have separate anchor for the longer shots if you like. Love the channel Guys.
Hi Jake and Heather, I'm an old JOAD kid from the 80-90s. I've recently gotten back into my traditional western European archery practice. It's been 2 decades since I last shot. I appreciate the detail and explanation you provide and the variety of your content. You have helped me regain enthusiasm for a sport and practice that was long forgotten. This past year I've used archery to help maintain discipline and balance during a very difficult time. I've been able to share my knowledge and love for the sport with some friends, and now we have a weekly physically distanced archery practice. I look forward to more content. Thanks again.
Nice work, Coach Heather! Jake’s “new form” is sharp and more aggressive. Looks more efficient and scoring reflects it. Can’t wait to see in another months practice. You are killing it too. You have an awesome attitude and are improving rapidly. I just wanted to give props for the excellent coaches eye and explanations of form modifications 👍
I am using the front edge of the shelf for getting my elevation on longer distance, the arrow only for alignment. My "Shelf on distance" is about 25 m farther than my Point on. This way you can't see the center you are shooting at (one eye closed) ... but hey... it's a circle split in quarter by the shelf and the arrow.
Hi Jake, hi Heather ! Heather, you are really doing awesome. So I, being a card carrying member of the Trex club, have had to optimize my kit to get to 50M and have found that the VAPs coupled with Uukha limbs have done it. Keep on shooting !
Just a point I saw, was Heather's follow through. Her string hand is flicking outwards. But she is a really good shot for the time she has been shooting.
Maybe it isn't a problem now, but I noticed that Heather is aiming off below her point on target and then raising her bow up until she released right after getting lined up with the upper target. Aiming off and then moving to the target center for the release cue is a recipe for target panic. Jake gets to his point on target center very quickly and then settles to a stable anchor position before arrow launch, which allows separation between aiming and the release.
Hello Joe, this is very good point. And exactly the way i developed my TP issues. It is such a nasty thing to release with bow hand "in motion"... Heather is doing just fine, no bow hand movement, when the shot breaks - she controls it, which is great, but i would try to get rid of the bow hand movement at full draw anyway. Last sentence of Your comment says it all...it is the way to conrol the shot (hard to achieve sometimes, especcially during competitions...). Good coaching Heather, Jake is doing so well with barebow at 50 m :). Good luck.
Hello Jake you both shoot Barebow great. Heather has a natural talent for sure. Biggest difference I can see in this video between you guys is that when Jake draws the head does not move from nocking the arrow to releasing it. Heather tends to pull into alignment as she comes to full draw. Understand she has gone up in bow weight and this is the most likely reason for this. But like all things in archery if you do the same thing every time the arrow will go in the same place.
Extra distance. 1. As already suggested, lighter arrows/vanes. 2. Use button-arrow right angle as aiming reference (instead of arrow point). 3. To potentially gain a couple of metres, when anchor, tuck hand under ear lobe instead of flat against the side of it (keeping everything else about the anchor the same as before. Depends on current anchor position as to whether it will have any effect), may also help with height consistency
Hi Jake, thank you for the content! Me and my wife are loving your videos with Heather, you inspired us to go barebow together this year. Still waiting for good weather, it was snowing last week in Poland! I wish we could enjoy t-shirts outside like you do. Huge thank you for sharing all this! Have a beautiful week!
I just shot 50m for the first time yesterday! The longer distance is a lot of fun. It feels so different shooting without a crawl. A lot less pinch on my fingers.
Kudos to Heather. I’ve never heard of anyone who have learned so fast. Indeed having the coach at home help, but still you are shooting awesome at 50m. I am kind of jealous and disappointed with my slow improving pace. ;-)
Some great shots at that distance... When it gets too easy for you guys try it of a wooden bow without a shelf .. an without string walking... Is crazy how much higher an to the far side u have to shoot to compensate for cause of not having a shelf .. it is very interesting an fun to work out....
When I shoot the NFAA field round there a a few distances that are past point on. In those situations you can use parts of the bow as sight references. Try using the plunger button as a sight reference it will let her keep the present setup that she is comfortable with and still have a solid aiming point for 50 meters. With the holdover you are showing I would guess the center of the button even with the spot should be pretty close.
What magnificent weather and setting, not to mention being able to use a target face on a field course! To folks commenting on changing to a lower anchor point: I thought that WA rules require one anchor point. But that could be a Mediterranean (split) finger - which would improve long distance sight marks (& worsen short range ones).
WA rules say: "22.3.Barebow Division"... ..."22.3.5. Face and string walking are permitted."... means that you can walk on the string and on the face as you wish. You may have confused it for an instinctive bow or for a long bow where it is not allowed.
Really great videos.. I just picked up my first recurve bare bow having not shot a bow before. I instantly loved shooting after I participated in a group bow shoot at my local range. These videos are helping me too!! I hope to after shooting and practicing for awhile to compete my first tournament!
At the end, you basically mentioned everything that I could think of to fix the issue. Its best to continue this way, then jump 2-4 lbs in a couple of months.
Yup. I'd give it 6 months though as she's just gone up 4lbs already. Practice practice and practice aiming off high. It definitely is doable however horrifying it feels at first
My first set of arrows for 50m was Easton Carbon Ones and I had to shoot with an anchor under the chin. They were cut as short as possible. This season I changed to Victory VAP V1 700 spine cut as short as possible and now I'm point on at my regular corner of the mouth anchor. On my Yost tab I'm at one full mark from the top of the tab. PS. When I started 50m with Carbon Ones, I thought shooting under the chin would be hard to adapt to, funny thing it turned out to be a super easy transition.
You both are pretty good! Heather is hitting really close groups and gold consistently in spite of her short time shooting, What an envy!. I'm going to start shooting barebow as I recently bought a new Olympic ilf and my first 26# recurve is idle and still has a arrow rest and a plunger and string. I need to learn how to aim by either gap or string crawling so any good links are appreciated. It is going to be fun to practice both styles. You guys seem to have a lot of fun and that comes across nicely. Thank for sharing the video!
I shoot 68“ barebow with 30# at 28“ draw length with Carbon one 900, 29“, 80 grain tip. 50m is tab just 2 mm under nocking point. Arrow unfortunately discontinued. ACE 850 will work well, little tuning required. ACG 880 are perfect for me, all with 80 grain tip.
About the point-on thing, two things jump to mind: lowering the FOC in her arrows (though that's probably not gonna fix the whole problem and would likely be more of a hassle than making a new set) so they'll 'float' more, and her head angle. Currently it looks like Heather is slightly turning her neck/head a little out and down which in turn lowers her eyes. If she could keep her head a bit higher she may find some extra play here.
If you don't want to change anchor, you'll need lighter arrows. Victory VAPs are probably the most affordable ultra-light option now that CX is discontinuing the Medallion and Easton dropped the Carbon One. The Easton Avance is pretty close in weight to the VAP. But I really think a lower anchor would benefit her alignment as well as allow for a much further point on. A lot of archers shooting low draw weight have an indoor and outdoor anchor, or just crawl further indoors.
Lighter Arrows might be a good idea. I shoot Victory VAP with the same tips you used. They fly really well and long. Also the coating they use on their arrows makes them really easy to pull from the target. I am jealous that you can shoot in warm weather,I am currently freezing here when shooting ( around 5 degree celcius).
Pulling the shoulders down is something Tom Clum SR teaches. You have the new arrow, i am exiting how the results wil be. More noise can be a side effect, but well see if you test them ;-)
Thank you, for all the great content Jake. I would love to see you shooting a traditional bow with wooden arrows and more traditional bow content. Regarding Heather's point on, I was watching your video on static releasing and how it is actually collapsing, today. I noticed two things about Heather's release. Her elbow is really high and she doesn't seem to be expanding/transferring, which according to you means she's collapsing, right? Somebody mentioned here earlier that her hand is flipping out, but actually I think it is just a kind of static release. If you look at what happens after her release, Heather's "follow through is more of an action than a reaction. I think her point on would be better if she wasn't collapsing. P.S. Much more Heather please, she is sweet (and knowledgeable), if you don't mind me saying.
@@InFerrumVeritas Oh, I didn't know that. But good news...I did check on Easton website and found out Carbon One has been rebranded and improved. It's now called Avance. :)
It's kind of hard to call it the same arrow. It's been replaced by the Avance. But it does retail for the same price, and has a more affordable version too.
Hi Jake, Easton Carbon One arrows are great for outdoors and they aren't expensive. I went from Inspires to Carbon Ones and the difference was night and day. Might work well for Heather.
Hi Jake, As someone who was in the same situation as Heather some time ago, having big issues shooting at 50 meters with 33# at 28" draw and aiming way above the yellow, I can recommend her to change her approach and instead of raising the bow hand up when aligning on the top target, better to start a bit over the target and then slowly move the bow hand down, until she reaches the sweet spot then lock the position. Also, another suggestion for Heather would be to try some Uukha limbs of higher poundage than whatever she's shooting now (she can even go to 34# in my opinion, but 36# would be ideal for 50m), as I am pretty sure she will feel them much lighter.
Looks like a fantastic way to spend time together. Lucky for you Heather is very observant! If the VAPs don't work out, I have a doze Carbon Express Medallion- XR 900s with pins and 100 gr points you can have. I thought Heather was going to poke you at 16:50 and say, "Use these muscles!"
Looks like a good time out there, you guys are both doing great! Dang, Heather really knows her stuff... I didn't notice the form difference at all until this video... I personally think your alignment was still good before the change, but you definitely look more comfortable, maybe even a bit more 'natural' for lack of a better term, despite the tweak she gave you being relatively new. Might just be because I spent so many hours seeing your form series where you used your recurve form. Good stuff though!
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I think I noticed Heather being a little inconsistent with her shoulder blade. I may be mistaken. I suggest you both look and see if you see the same as me
For the longest time, I couldn't get to 60 yds (28# @ 26.5 DL using a low end riser/limbs. The solution has several parts...1) arrows close to my DL and 90 gr tips, 2) significant equipment upgrade, 3) increase DW to 32#.. And of course, lots of practice.
If 50m is a special distance, there are a couple of hacks that will get you there. Shoot spit-finger and aim off low. If that doesn't pick up enough distance, try this: shooting right-handed, place a left-handed tab on her hand, upside down. Quite a bit of cast is picked up and you will probably have to aim off low, but it does work. (Think about it. If you can crawl down the string to get shorter distances, you can crawl up to get longer ones.)
The way to get further distance is, if Heather shoots split finger and anchors in the same place. It will easily make that difference as it will bring the knock end of the arrow lower down and raise the front up. Another way which may ruin arrow tuning is to bring the knock point on your string lower, which again lowers the back end of your arrow. I personally don't worry to much if my bare shaft is not quite right on up and down as long as left and right is OK. Hope this helps
Is it legal to alternate between split finger and 3 under during a competition? In ifaa competitions I believe it's not. If you mean shooting only split finger, then she will be more of a gap shooter
Thanks for sharing your training!! You're a GREAT archer, Jake! Definitely! and Heather… c'mon!! It's awesome to see what's she's doing in such a short time! Jake, I see in a previous answer your bow is about 44-45#, also see you're using a Yost tab and crawling about 3 big lines @50m, would you please tell me which is your Draw length and arrow configuration? I'm using VAPs with a 29.75" DL and crawling only 1 big line on a Yost tab… Thanks a lot, again, for sharing all what you always do.
Great shooting! For shooting longer distances, you may try blending string crawl technique with a particular medieval archery technique, but it likely to not be as accurate as if you are able to use just string crawl: Pick a point in the image that you see of the background behind the target that is higher than the target, and aim for that point. Use the appropriate string crawl that works for that point as your aim point. Of course this will always require a few more arrows before you begin scoring in order to match your chosen aim point with the correct amount of crawl.
Jake have her try using the wire on her rest for height and then align everything else as usual. When i shot nfaa i used the launcher edge of my rest for eighty yard target
Avalon tyro arrows are light and very budget friendly. Mine came pre mounted and it was really hard to remove the points in order to cut the shaft. I guess they used superglue on them. I also suggest easton carbon ones, my arrows of choice.
She is anchoring under her cheek ledge. I suggest she flatten her draw hand (locates the draw hand along the side of her lower teeth, above the jaw) and locate her thumb to hand knuckle under her jaw. This will lower her anchor over one inch. Keep the teeth closed together and don't clinch the jaw. This alignment method secures the lateral and vertical references to the eye. She will have a point on at 50m, IMO. She also needs to complete her follow through (like you do, Jake). This lower anchor will work great down to 5m...
Duuuude! She's a pretty good shot! You have an interest you can share as a couple. Good stuff. On the topic of arrows, Kill'n Stix has a line of arrows, the Micro LT which is just a bit lighter than the X10, has .001 straightness, and is reasonably priced. I just don't know if they would have a spine that would be appropriate for her recurve because their primary market is compound bows. I hope you guys keep shooting together, and shooting videos together. Maybe I can get MY wife into archery next. Hmmmmm....
Jake you could try the Skylon Radius if you could find any in the states. Carbon 1 and Victory Vaps also good choice. Light enough while not being overly expensive
I have a 12 y.o. daughter that loves bare bow. To help her shoot even from 20 yards and up, I have her string crawl above the knock point. Then at 40 yards she doesn’t have to aim so high above the target. Not sure if it’s against some rules, but it seems to work.
Fantastic enjoyable video. There seems to be quite a lot of vibration after the shot on the bottom limb of Heathers bow. Top limb is not in camera shot so hard to tell but maybe some tiller fettling would help. Probably not going to gain you much distance though. I wouldn't give her anymore help though Jake, she's alarmingly good already considering how new to it ; )
i assume she is three under, on zero stitch and anchor on chin? the next step is split finger... Ah ok, I can see she is anchoring on the cheek bone, you anchor a bit lower, she can anchor under the chin onlympic style and then maybe adjust the stitch count. and Jake. I love the way you thread the arrow through that phantom clicker!
Hey man! Great video and love seeing your guys shooting together and sharing the passion! If I was her and wanted to extend my point on without changing form. I would consider invest into some more extreme s curve limbs. Fx Morrison or Border. I think they average perform 10 fps faster than conventional limbs. Also they feel a lot lighter so she can maybe add a few pounds without noticing it. Hope that would help 🙏🏽
Heather does not look that far off there hopefully lighter arrows and a reduction in arrow length if there is any room for it will get her pretty much where she wants to be. We have had some very highly ranked UK field barebow shooters though my club over the years and a number of them have said they find for them 34-36 lbs on the fingers is a sweet spot for both getting distance and being in control of the shot. After shooting traditional or English longbow for years at Fita field because of the no string walking rule I still have trouble convincing myself I need to aim at a point on the ground halfway to the target for 5m or at or above the top of the target for 50m, there is something about the thought of the arrow heading off into the distance that puts you off. I think the biggest advantage you can give yourself in getting comfortable with aiming off is tuning to get as many of your distances within the target face as you can even if half of them are aiming at the one ring high or low it is easier to repeat than trying to visualise half a target above the target face.
Perhaps you could move the arrow rest up by one or two millimetres. The plunger tip will still contact the side of the arrow so long as you don't move the rest by more than half the plunger tip diameter.
I really didn't explain that we'll. I mean deliberately put the bow out of tune (nock low or arrow rest high) to get extra lift off the arrow body and raise the impact point. I don't know if the loss of speed through the extra drag might offset the greater lift. If you have lots of clearance you could just try lowering the nocking point?
Heather raises his left hand when aiming - thereby reducing the length of the bow stretch - reduces the power of the bow - the arrival is lower, it would be necessary to suggest that it is necessary to raise the point by changing the "t-position", and not by raising one hand. do you think, Jake, increasing the negative tiller to -12-14 mm will affect the firing range? what is the minimum weight of an arrow allowed in barebow - how many grains per pound?
So great to watch professional athletes. I’m furthest thing from a pro. Relative to Heather’s arrow drop though, it’s pretty simple geometry and arrow speed. Speed you’ll get with lighter arrows. From geometry, I I noticed when comparing you both at draw while Heather is behind you relative to the camera, that your arrow is at your lip line or slightly below. Heather’s look like slightly above. Given I would expect her eye to lip distance to me slightly smaller than yours, the included distance is smaller. The base of the triangle formed between the eye, arrow nock, and arrow point at draw is smaller. That results in a lower arrow at the target if aimed at the same point. Long winded way of saying migrating to a stable, but lower anchor point will help a lot. I’m working on a similar change . My point on is a little to short for my heavier hunting arrows for the range I want in AZ, without holding over, which I find more difficult than holding under. I’m working on finding the balance for me for trajectory while still achieving a very solid anchor
@@JakeKaminskiArchery For the length of time she has been shooting, Heather is Amazing. Great to watch. I learn something every time I see the shooting. Her comment on your form has me looking at mine and thinking through how my back engages. Thanks again for your channel!
I think raising your bow arm to the target is decreasing your darw length a bit. If you try to lean back instead of raising your bow arm? It's just a thought. I do it with my longbow which the arrows I use are quite heavy (wooden arrow regulations), about 12 gpp.
Great video (as always :-) ) QUESTION: How long will it be before your "My Wife" co-star gets the billing she deserves (as "Heather" !) The value added by having Heather work alongside - and challenge/question/and even form-coach!!) you is immense. Thank you both - and will you please send that weather my way?!?!?!?
Skylon do a very wide range of arrows in many different spines at pretty low prices. I'm not sure how available they are in the US but I use them in the UK and they've been really good. Their Paragon/Precium range are nano diameter and are a little over 5gr/in at the softer spines.
The Brixxton and Radius are too heavy. The Paragon/Precium/Preminens might work, depending on the spine. They're shooting for between 7 and 8 GPP to get the speed they want for a 50m point on with a high anchor.
This may not help, but what about changing her point of reference on the bow? I know growing up, shooting at 100yds with compound I was point on. So as I progressed back to 175yds, I had to start using other references lower on the bow. First the knuckles on my bow hand, then eventually the gap between my hand and riser. the other thing you could do until you get better arrows. Tie a higher peep (movable nocking point) on the string, but there again, couldn't be used in competition. Also, tying a high peep means moving your anchor to your shoulder, which can be harder to hold at full draw.
I been getting a solid 50 meters at like, 32-34# with Carbon Express Nano .166s, cut as short as they can go with like 90 grain points and 2.5" spin wings. I'm sure the premium Nanos would perform even better but I'm losing/breaking too many arrows to justify that purchase yet lol.
i dont know if you can get those in the usa, its a german brand : PENTHALON Bandit 0.245 price 3.5 $ per piece spine gpi 700 32" 4,9 800 32" 4,5 900 32" 4,2 realy cheap, realy light, medium diameter cross carbon shaft. if you want i can check if my dealer send to the us and at what cost. by the way, i find it realy impressive how much you still have to crawl down at 50
Hi, VERY NICE video! What I would like to know is: what arrow - rest are you using in this exercise? whats the company which produce this arrowrest? thanks a lot!
To achieve 50m with my barebow I changed my anchor from edge of the mouth to under the chin (almost like an olympic archer), got me right to the distance needed. So Heather aims about 50-60cm high on target, I aimed 1m50 above when I was with my old ancher, Heather might not have to change too much with her anchor!?
Watching your wife and to me she starts out with her bow arm straight then she raises it and she bends it slightly. I was taught to bend at the waist for elevation changes. When I have to aim off I pick a tree limb or the top of the target butt.
From what I see, Heather anchor at mouth corner, should maybe move to chin at 50 m. Your anchor on chin should maybe be on mouth, especially at shorter range. Your crawl still about 3/4 inch even at this range. At what range are you point on? at different Alternating anchor between chin and mouth corner at different range may solve both your problems. Chin anchor for Olympic style recurve, where you have an adjustable sight is great, but barebow needs a slightly different approach. Only a suggestion you are the expert.
Maybe You like to check out: Skylon Preminens / Paragon shafts? Nice GPI and ID 3.2. But unfortunately tungsten is needed :/ It would also be nice to see the test of those arrows.
We ordered VAP v6s at a good price, they are the lightest we could find at 5.3 GPI @ 800 spine. Decided to go as light as possible since we probably would need new arrows anyhow
Thanks for that. Really enjoy seeing barebow at 50m. Very good shooting both and very impressive Heather. Any reason Jake you no longer seem to shoot the radical pro riser?
I have a lot of gear I am playing with at the moment so nothing solid other then the barebow setup as I don’t want to change it. I have others I’ll play with in the future!
I see Heather is shooting 3 under. Try split fingers for 50 with arrow tip point on. That may get the change you're looking for. That's what I do for 60 yards. Dan
Try to use a thinner string to get her to 50m. When I switch from my standard 18 strand string to e.g. 14 it gives me noticeable more speed. Downside is that it doesn't feel as good as 18 strand.
Quick way to get those arrow higher, go under your chin. I set myself and girlfriend up with VAPs 80g and bohning 1.75 x vanes and they go so well Great to see some 50m shooting 👍
Nice!!! What poundage are you shooting? The bow seems a bit too strong for her, looking at the movement of the bow while full drawn, but anyway awesome results on 50m, respect. So when do you plan to join the Vegas competition :D :D :D
I really like what you are doing for barebow and documenting your journey. It's all very helpful to many of us out here. These are my rig specs (for an aging light poundage archer) which allows me to aim point on at 50m. There may be something here that can help with your wife's tune towards 50m point on aim. Riser = Gillo G1; Limbs = Uukha Vx+ Medium 32#@27" draw; Tiller = 0; Brace height = 210mm; String = Angel Majesty 777 14-strands; Arrow = Skylon Paragon (ID 3.2mm), Arrow length = 27"; Arrow weight = 192gn; Arrow point weight = 60gn; FOC = 12.5%; vanes = XS Wings 40mm; Arrow speed = 204fps (based on 218mm brace height). I anchor under my cheekbone and manage point on aim with a 5mm crawl. Hope this is useful and happy to contribute to your database. Cheers!
You guys aren't going to fool me twice. You guys are shooting great at 50m.
It's great to see you and Heather shooting together! This really opens up a whole new avenue for the female audience & a beginners travails into archery.😊
I struggled for years to get 50 meters from my setup until I moved my anchor down my face, even just one finger should give you another 5 meters. Also you are allowed to face walk in barebow so you can have separate anchor for the longer shots if you like.
Love the channel Guys.
Aiming with the shelf
I cant wait for the match between Jake vs Johns (Demmer & Dillinger)
My favorite Channel on all of youtube. Thanks to both of you for sharing so much.
Hi Jake and Heather,
I'm an old JOAD kid from the 80-90s. I've recently gotten back into my traditional western European archery practice. It's been 2 decades since I last shot.
I appreciate the detail and explanation you provide and the variety of your content.
You have helped me regain enthusiasm for a sport and practice that was long forgotten. This past year I've used archery to help maintain discipline and balance during a very difficult time.
I've been able to share my knowledge and love for the sport with some friends, and now we have a weekly physically distanced archery practice.
I look forward to more content. Thanks again.
Nice work, Coach Heather! Jake’s “new form” is sharp and more aggressive. Looks more efficient and scoring reflects it. Can’t wait to see in another months practice. You are killing it too. You have an awesome attitude and are improving rapidly. I just wanted to give props for the excellent coaches eye and explanations of form modifications 👍
I’m happy knowing there’s a medical professional who actually does the sports. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 I’m trying to recover from shoulder injury
I am using the front edge of the shelf for getting my elevation on longer distance, the arrow only for alignment. My "Shelf on distance" is about 25 m farther than my Point on. This way you can't see the center you are shooting at (one eye closed) ... but hey... it's a circle split in quarter by the shelf and the arrow.
Hi Jake, hi Heather ! Heather, you are really doing awesome. So I, being a card carrying member of the Trex club, have had to optimize my kit to get to 50M and have found that the VAPs coupled with Uukha limbs have done it. Keep on shooting !
I'm jealous, I'm 5 weeks away from my Outdoor Range to be free of snow and dry. Have fun shooting!!!
FL has white stuff here aswell, its called sand...sometimes we even shovel it.😏
@@kajala11 You are funny!!!
Just a point I saw, was Heather's follow through. Her string hand is flicking outwards. But she is a really good shot for the time she has been shooting.
I would be too if I had constant level 4 coaching, a tuned bow & arrows...for free.😏
love seeing both of you together shooting barebow
Maybe it isn't a problem now, but I noticed that Heather is aiming off below her point on target and then raising her bow up until she released right after getting lined up with the upper target. Aiming off and then moving to the target center for the release cue is a recipe for target panic. Jake gets to his point on target center very quickly and then settles to a stable anchor position before arrow launch, which allows separation between aiming and the release.
Hello Joe,
this is very good point. And exactly the way i developed my TP issues. It is such a nasty thing to release with bow hand "in motion"... Heather is doing just fine, no bow hand movement, when the shot breaks - she controls it, which is great, but i would try to get rid of the bow hand movement at full draw anyway. Last sentence of Your comment says it all...it is the way to conrol the shot (hard to achieve sometimes, especcially during competitions...).
Good coaching Heather, Jake is doing so well with barebow at 50 m :).
Good luck.
900 spine vaps, 27 inches with 50 grains and aae waves works fine at 50m
Hello Jake you both shoot Barebow great. Heather has a natural talent for sure. Biggest difference I can see in this video between you guys is that when Jake draws the head does not move from nocking the arrow to releasing it. Heather tends to pull into alignment as she comes to full draw. Understand she has gone up in bow weight and this is the most likely reason for this. But like all things in archery if you do the same thing every time the arrow will go in the same place.
I'm new to archery and your vids are a great help. I'm shocked at how much elevation is driven into the arrow during its flight.
Extra distance. 1. As already suggested, lighter arrows/vanes. 2. Use button-arrow right angle as aiming reference (instead of arrow point). 3. To potentially gain a couple of metres, when anchor, tuck hand under ear lobe instead of flat against the side of it (keeping everything else about the anchor the same as before. Depends on current anchor position as to whether it will have any effect), may also help with height consistency
Heather, just make an ankerpoint like in recurve, under your "jar-bone" IT Will do IT
Or Ankerpoint in corner your mouth - like in mediterrane style, it should help you to pointing a arrow (not aiming, we're not "aiming" in barebow)
Heather and Jake I really like your team approach. I'm learning more watching her learn. Great job Kaminskis!
I find this format easy to pick up ideas from. Good vid and attitude, folks
My wife just got her first bow yesterday and I am soooo excited to shoot together!
I"m still trying to keep the arrows within 40 inch circle...at 10 yards. If I shot as fast as you guys do, I wouldn't last long. :)
Hi Jake, thank you for the content! Me and my wife are loving your videos with Heather, you inspired us to go barebow together this year. Still waiting for good weather, it was snowing last week in Poland! I wish we could enjoy t-shirts outside like you do. Huge thank you for sharing all this! Have a beautiful week!
We enjoy the weather as much as possible, thanks for the support.
I just shot 50m for the first time yesterday! The longer distance is a lot of fun. It feels so different shooting without a crawl. A lot less pinch on my fingers.
Kudos to Heather. I’ve never heard of anyone who have learned so fast. Indeed having the coach at home help, but still you are shooting awesome at 50m. I am kind of jealous and disappointed with my slow improving pace. ;-)
Some great shots at that distance... When it gets too easy for you guys try it of a wooden bow without a shelf .. an without string walking... Is crazy how much higher an to the far side u have to shoot to compensate for cause of not having a shelf .. it is very interesting an fun to work out....
When I shoot the NFAA field round there a a few distances that are past point on. In those situations you can use parts of the bow as sight references. Try using the plunger button as a sight reference it will let her keep the present setup that she is comfortable with and still have a solid aiming point for 50 meters. With the holdover you are showing I would guess the center of the button even with the spot should be pretty close.
What magnificent weather and setting, not to mention being able to use a target face on a field course! To folks commenting on changing to a lower anchor point: I thought that WA rules require one anchor point. But that could be a Mediterranean (split) finger - which would improve long distance sight marks (& worsen short range ones).
WA rules say:
"22.3.Barebow Division"...
..."22.3.5. Face and string walking are permitted."...
means that you can walk on the string and on the face as you wish. You may have confused it for an instinctive bow or for a long bow where it is not allowed.
@@igorsabljak8522 Yep you're right - I got mixed up with the longbow rules
Really great videos.. I just picked up my first recurve bare bow having not shot a bow before. I instantly loved shooting after I participated in a group bow shoot at my local range. These videos are helping me too!! I hope to after shooting and practicing for awhile to compete my first tournament!
At the end, you basically mentioned everything that I could think of to fix the issue. Its best to continue this way, then jump 2-4 lbs in a couple of months.
Yup. I'd give it 6 months though as she's just gone up 4lbs already. Practice practice and practice aiming off high. It definitely is doable however horrifying it feels at first
Shes killing it!!!
My first set of arrows for 50m was Easton Carbon Ones and I had to shoot with an anchor under the chin. They were cut as short as possible. This season I changed to Victory VAP V1 700 spine cut as short as possible and now I'm point on at my regular corner of the mouth anchor. On my Yost tab I'm at one full mark from the top of the tab.
PS. When I started 50m with Carbon Ones, I thought shooting under the chin would be hard to adapt to, funny thing it turned out to be a super easy transition.
What is your draw length, arrow length and bow weight?
@@frank3722 drawlenght about 28.5inches, arrow length 27.9inches
You both are pretty good! Heather is hitting really close groups and gold consistently in spite of her short time shooting, What an envy!. I'm going to start shooting barebow as I recently bought a new Olympic ilf and my first 26# recurve is idle and still has a arrow rest and a plunger and string. I need to learn how to aim by either gap or string crawling so any good links are appreciated. It is going to be fun to practice both styles. You guys seem to have a lot of fun and that comes across nicely. Thank for sharing the video!
I shoot 68“ barebow with 30# at 28“ draw length with Carbon one 900, 29“, 80 grain tip. 50m is tab just 2 mm under nocking point. Arrow unfortunately discontinued. ACE 850 will work well, little tuning required. ACG 880 are perfect for me, all with 80 grain tip.
I really like these videos where you both shoot together.
About the point-on thing, two things jump to mind: lowering the FOC in her arrows (though that's probably not gonna fix the whole problem and would likely be more of a hassle than making a new set) so they'll 'float' more, and her head angle. Currently it looks like Heather is slightly turning her neck/head a little out and down which in turn lowers her eyes. If she could keep her head a bit higher she may find some extra play here.
If you don't want to change anchor, you'll need lighter arrows. Victory VAPs are probably the most affordable ultra-light option now that CX is discontinuing the Medallion and Easton dropped the Carbon One. The Easton Avance is pretty close in weight to the VAP. But I really think a lower anchor would benefit her alignment as well as allow for a much further point on. A lot of archers shooting low draw weight have an indoor and outdoor anchor, or just crawl further indoors.
Lighter Arrows might be a good idea.
I shoot Victory VAP with the same tips you used.
They fly really well and long.
Also the coating they use on their arrows makes them really easy to pull from the target.
I am jealous that you can shoot in warm weather,I am currently freezing here when shooting ( around 5 degree celcius).
Sorry I forgot to say we are shooting VAPs 28.5 and they way roughly 275g 80tip 1.75 x bohning x vanes
Pulling the shoulders down is something Tom Clum SR teaches. You have the new arrow, i am exiting how the results wil be. More noise can be a side effect, but well see if you test them ;-)
Thank you, for all the great content Jake. I would love to see you shooting a traditional bow with wooden arrows and more traditional bow content. Regarding Heather's point on, I was watching your video on static releasing and how it is actually collapsing, today. I noticed two things about Heather's release. Her elbow is really high and she doesn't seem to be expanding/transferring, which according to you means she's collapsing, right? Somebody mentioned here earlier that her hand is flipping out, but actually I think it is just a kind of static release. If you look at what happens after her release, Heather's "follow through is more of an action than a reaction. I think her point on would be better if she wasn't collapsing. P.S. Much more Heather please, she is sweet (and knowledgeable), if you don't mind me saying.
She could try Carbon One arrows, or switch to olympic style anchor. ;)
Discontinued, unfortunately.
@@InFerrumVeritas Oh, I didn't know that. But good news...I did check on Easton website and found out Carbon One has been rebranded and improved. It's now called Avance. :)
It's kind of hard to call it the same arrow. It's been replaced by the Avance. But it does retail for the same price, and has a more affordable version too.
Hi Jake, Easton Carbon One arrows are great for outdoors and they aren't expensive. I went from Inspires to Carbon Ones and the difference was night and day. Might work well for Heather.
Hi Jake,
As someone who was in the same situation as Heather some time ago, having big issues shooting at 50 meters with 33# at 28" draw and aiming way above the yellow, I can recommend her to change her approach and instead of raising the bow hand up when aligning on the top target, better to start a bit over the target and then slowly move the bow hand down, until she reaches the sweet spot then lock the position.
Also, another suggestion for Heather would be to try some Uukha limbs of higher poundage than whatever she's shooting now (she can even go to 34# in my opinion, but 36# would be ideal for 50m), as I am pretty sure she will feel them much lighter.
Looks like a fantastic way to spend time together. Lucky for you Heather is very observant! If the VAPs don't work out, I have a doze Carbon Express Medallion- XR 900s with pins and 100 gr points you can have. I thought Heather was going to poke you at 16:50 and say, "Use these muscles!"
I sure am lucky!
Yeah we are hopeful with the VAPs. Thanks for the offer on the other arrows!
Looks like a good time out there, you guys are both doing great! Dang, Heather really knows her stuff... I didn't notice the form difference at all until this video... I personally think your alignment was still good before the change, but you definitely look more comfortable, maybe even a bit more 'natural' for lack of a better term, despite the tweak she gave you being relatively new. Might just be because I spent so many hours seeing your form series where you used your recurve form. Good stuff though!
Thanks! She has a great eye for body mechanics and it's REALLY impressive.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I think I noticed Heather being a little inconsistent with her shoulder blade. I may be mistaken. I suggest you both look and see if you see the same as me
For sure Peter, she’s only been shooting for about 8 weeks regularly so it’s impressive to be here at this point. Consistency will come with time.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery It is impressive to see such a quick study
For the longest time, I couldn't get to 60 yds (28# @ 26.5 DL using a low end riser/limbs. The solution has several parts...1) arrows close to my DL and 90 gr tips, 2) significant equipment upgrade, 3) increase DW to 32#.. And of course, lots of practice.
If 50m is a special distance, there are a couple of hacks that will get you there. Shoot spit-finger and aim off low. If that doesn't pick up enough distance, try this: shooting right-handed, place a left-handed tab on her hand, upside down. Quite a bit of cast is picked up and you will probably have to aim off low, but it does work. (Think about it. If you can crawl down the string to get shorter distances, you can crawl up to get longer ones.)
The way to get further distance is, if Heather shoots split finger and anchors in the same place. It will easily make that difference as it will bring the knock end of the arrow lower down and raise the front up. Another way which may ruin arrow tuning is to bring the knock point on your string lower, which again lowers the back end of your arrow. I personally don't worry to much if my bare shaft is not quite right on up and down as long as left and right is OK. Hope this helps
I did some basic calculations and split finger with her current anchor would be around a 74meter point on.
Is it legal to alternate between split finger and 3 under during a competition? In ifaa competitions I believe it's not. If you mean shooting only split finger, then she will be more of a gap shooter
For world archery it is legal
Thanks for sharing your training!! You're a GREAT archer, Jake! Definitely! and Heather… c'mon!! It's awesome to see what's she's doing in such a short time!
Jake, I see in a previous answer your bow is about 44-45#, also see you're using a Yost tab and crawling about 3 big lines @50m, would you please tell me which is your Draw length and arrow configuration? I'm using VAPs with a 29.75" DL and crawling only 1 big line on a Yost tab… Thanks a lot, again, for sharing all what you always do.
Great shooting! For shooting longer distances, you may try blending string crawl technique with a particular medieval archery technique, but it likely to not be as accurate as if you are able to use just string crawl: Pick a point in the image that you see of the background behind the target that is higher than the target, and aim for that point. Use the appropriate string crawl that works for that point as your aim point. Of course this will always require a few more arrows before you begin scoring in order to match your chosen aim point with the correct amount of crawl.
Problem
Is that the background changes and moves from venue to venue. We are trying lighter arrows to start and hope that does it.
Jake have her try using the wire on her rest for height and then align everything else as usual. When i shot nfaa i used the launcher edge of my rest for eighty yard target
Hi Jake, great videos! I would suggest Skylon Paragons (small diameter) or CarbonTech McKinney 2's (closer to ACE size).
Love to watching you both. Awesome.
You guys are crazy good! Great shooting
Avalon tyro arrows are light and very budget friendly. Mine came pre mounted and it was really hard to remove the points in order to cut the shaft. I guess they used superglue on them.
I also suggest easton carbon ones, my arrows of choice.
I’ll have to check them out.
She is anchoring under her cheek ledge. I suggest she flatten her draw hand (locates the draw hand along the side of her lower teeth, above the jaw) and locate her thumb to hand knuckle under her jaw. This will lower her anchor over one inch. Keep the teeth closed together and don't clinch the jaw. This alignment method secures the lateral and vertical references to the eye. She will have a point on at 50m, IMO. She also needs to complete her follow through (like you do, Jake). This lower anchor will work great down to 5m...
Duuuude! She's a pretty good shot! You have an interest you can share as a couple. Good stuff. On the topic of arrows, Kill'n Stix has a line of arrows, the Micro LT which is just a bit lighter than the X10, has .001 straightness, and is reasonably priced. I just don't know if they would have a spine that would be appropriate for her recurve because their primary market is compound bows. I hope you guys keep shooting together, and shooting videos together. Maybe I can get MY wife into archery next. Hmmmmm....
I think Heather is doing great for only shooting a short time. I wish I had time to practice more.
Is the string touching Heather's hat at full draw? Wouldn't that add a negative effect? Enjoying these couple videos a lot, thanks guys ! ❤️
Jake you could try the Skylon Radius if you could find any in the states. Carbon 1 and Victory Vaps also good choice. Light enough while not being overly expensive
I have a 12 y.o. daughter that loves bare bow. To help her shoot even from 20 yards and up, I have her string crawl above the knock point. Then at 40 yards she doesn’t have to aim so high above the target. Not sure if it’s against some rules, but it seems to work.
Well done!
Try lower anchor point.
I know some people use the self at distance as an aiming device/marker
Fantastic enjoyable video. There seems to be quite a lot of vibration after the shot on the bottom limb of Heathers bow. Top limb is not in camera shot so hard to tell but maybe some tiller fettling would help. Probably not going to gain you much distance though. I wouldn't give her anymore help though Jake, she's alarmingly good already considering how new to it ; )
Heather's back seems to be sun burned, take care out there guys. great video
i assume she is three under, on zero stitch and anchor on chin? the next step is split finger... Ah ok, I can see she is anchoring on the cheek bone, you anchor a bit lower, she can anchor under the chin onlympic style and then maybe adjust the stitch count. and Jake. I love the way you thread the arrow through that phantom clicker!
Hey man! Great video and love seeing your guys shooting together and sharing the passion! If I was her and wanted to extend my point on without changing form. I would consider invest into some more extreme s curve limbs. Fx Morrison or Border. I think they average perform 10 fps faster than conventional limbs. Also they feel a lot lighter so she can maybe add a few pounds without noticing it. Hope that would help 🙏🏽
You could also try a lower anchor point on your face if split finger is not allowed.
Heather does not look that far off there hopefully lighter arrows and a reduction in arrow length if there is any room for it will get her pretty much where she wants to be. We have had some very highly ranked UK field barebow shooters though my club over the years and a number of them have said they find for them 34-36 lbs on the fingers is a sweet spot for both getting distance and being in control of the shot.
After shooting traditional or English longbow for years at Fita field because of the no string walking rule I still have trouble convincing myself I need to aim at a point on the ground halfway to the target for 5m or at or above the top of the target for 50m, there is something about the thought of the arrow heading off into the distance that puts you off.
I think the biggest advantage you can give yourself in getting comfortable with aiming off is tuning to get as many of your distances within the target face as you can even if half of them are aiming at the one ring high or low it is easier to repeat than trying to visualise half a target above the target face.
Perhaps you could move the arrow rest up by one or two millimetres. The plunger tip will still contact the side of the arrow so long as you don't move the rest by more than half the plunger tip diameter.
I really didn't explain that we'll. I mean deliberately put the bow out of tune (nock low or arrow rest high) to get extra lift off the arrow body and raise the impact point. I don't know if the loss of speed through the extra drag might offset the greater lift. If you have lots of clearance you could just try lowering the nocking point?
Also you may want to put smaller fletchings on so the arrow stays tilted point up for longer. Also lighter and less drag as you mentioned in the video
Heather raises his left hand when aiming - thereby reducing the length of the bow stretch - reduces the power of the bow - the arrival is lower, it would be necessary to suggest that it is necessary to raise the point by changing the "t-position", and not by raising one hand.
do you think, Jake, increasing the negative tiller to -12-14 mm will affect the firing range?
what is the minimum weight of an arrow allowed in barebow - how many grains per pound?
So great to watch professional athletes. I’m furthest thing from a pro. Relative to Heather’s arrow drop though, it’s pretty simple geometry and arrow speed. Speed you’ll get with lighter arrows. From geometry, I I noticed when comparing you both at draw while Heather is behind you relative to the camera, that your arrow is at your lip line or slightly below. Heather’s look like slightly above. Given I would expect her eye to lip distance to me slightly smaller than yours, the included distance is smaller. The base of the triangle formed between the eye, arrow nock, and arrow point at draw is smaller. That results in a lower arrow at the target if aimed at the same point. Long winded way of saying migrating to a stable, but lower anchor point will help a lot.
I’m working on a similar change . My point on is a little to short for my heavier hunting arrows for the range I want in AZ, without holding over, which I find more difficult than holding under. I’m working on finding the balance for me for trajectory while still achieving a very solid anchor
We are going with lighter arrows to see if that helps enough. Otherwise we may need to adjust anchor or something else.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery For the length of time she has been shooting, Heather is Amazing. Great to watch. I learn something every time I see the shooting. Her comment on your form has me looking at mine and thinking through how my back engages. Thanks again for your channel!
I have good success with carbon impact super club arrows. My arrows weigh 232 and I shoot 26#
Hi Heather and Jake. Can I ask Heather are you using the same anchor point as Jake uses? I am just starting and trying to figure this all out. Thanks
I think raising your bow arm to the target is decreasing your darw length a bit. If you try to lean back instead of raising your bow arm? It's just a thought. I do it with my longbow which the arrows I use are quite heavy (wooden arrow regulations), about 12 gpp.
Great video (as always :-) ) QUESTION: How long will it be before your "My Wife" co-star gets the billing she deserves (as "Heather" !) The value added by having Heather work alongside - and challenge/question/and even form-coach!!) you is immense. Thank you both - and will you please send that weather my way?!?!?!?
wonderful
Skylon do a very wide range of arrows in many different spines at pretty low prices. I'm not sure how available they are in the US but I use them in the UK and they've been really good. Their Paragon/Precium range are nano diameter and are a little over 5gr/in at the softer spines.
The Brixxton and Radius are too heavy. The Paragon/Precium/Preminens might work, depending on the spine. They're shooting for between 7 and 8 GPP to get the speed they want for a 50m point on with a high anchor.
This may not help, but what about changing her point of reference on the bow? I know growing up, shooting at 100yds with compound I was point on. So as I progressed back to 175yds, I had to start using other references lower on the bow. First the knuckles on my bow hand, then eventually the gap between my hand and riser. the other thing you could do until you get better arrows. Tie a higher peep (movable nocking point) on the string, but there again, couldn't be used in competition. Also, tying a high peep means moving your anchor to your shoulder, which can be harder to hold at full draw.
I been getting a solid 50 meters at like, 32-34# with Carbon Express Nano .166s, cut as short as they can go with like 90 grain points and 2.5" spin wings. I'm sure the premium Nanos would perform even better but I'm losing/breaking too many arrows to justify that purchase yet lol.
i dont know if you can get those in the usa, its a german brand :
PENTHALON Bandit 0.245 price 3.5 $ per piece
spine gpi
700 32" 4,9
800 32" 4,5
900 32" 4,2
realy cheap, realy light, medium diameter cross carbon shaft.
if you want i can check if my dealer send to the us and at what cost.
by the way, i find it realy impressive how much you still have to crawl down at 50
Hi, VERY NICE video! What I would like to know is: what arrow - rest are you using in this exercise? whats the company which produce this arrowrest? thanks a lot!
Shooting starts at 2:40.
To achieve 50m with my barebow I changed my anchor from edge of the mouth to under the chin (almost like an olympic archer), got me right to the distance needed. So Heather aims about 50-60cm high on target, I aimed 1m50 above when I was with my old ancher, Heather might not have to change too much with her anchor!?
enjoyed this one
Watching your wife and to me she starts out with her bow arm straight then she raises it and she bends it slightly. I was taught to bend at the waist for elevation changes. When I have to aim off I pick a tree limb or the top of the target butt.
From what I see, Heather anchor at mouth corner, should maybe move to chin at 50 m. Your anchor on chin should maybe be on mouth, especially at shorter range. Your crawl still about 3/4 inch even at this range. At what range are you point on? at different Alternating anchor between chin and mouth corner at different range may solve both your problems. Chin anchor for Olympic style recurve, where you have an adjustable sight is great, but barebow needs a slightly different approach. Only a suggestion you are the expert.
Maybe You like to check out: Skylon Preminens / Paragon shafts? Nice GPI and ID 3.2. But unfortunately tungsten is needed :/ It would also be nice to see the test of those arrows.
Never heard of them. I’ll check into them!
Hi Jake, for a budget lightweight shaft Heather could try Avalon - Tyro. That's 5.7 grains/inch at 900 spine.
Or Skylon - Radius 4.2
We ordered VAP v6s at a good price, they are the lightest we could find at 5.3 GPI @ 800 spine. Decided to go as light as possible since we probably would need new arrows anyhow
Dear Jake, Can you specify how and where do you aim while shooting 50 meters and 18 meters?
Thanks for that. Really enjoy seeing barebow at 50m. Very good shooting both and very impressive Heather. Any reason Jake you no longer seem to shoot the radical pro riser?
I have a lot of gear I am playing with at the moment so nothing solid other then the barebow setup as I don’t want to change it. I have others I’ll play with in the future!
I see Heather is shooting 3 under. Try split fingers for 50 with arrow tip point on. That may get the change you're looking for. That's what I do for 60 yards. Dan
Try to use a thinner string to get her to 50m. When I switch from my standard 18 strand string to e.g. 14 it gives me noticeable more speed. Downside is that it doesn't feel as good as 18 strand.
I think we already dropped to 16 or so. Waiting on VAPs to arrive before we give other things suggested here a go.
Quick way to get those arrow higher, go under your chin. I set myself and girlfriend up with VAPs 80g and bohning 1.75 x vanes and they go so well
Great to see some 50m shooting 👍
Nice!!! What poundage are you shooting? The bow seems a bit too strong for her, looking at the movement of the bow while full drawn, but anyway awesome results on 50m, respect. So when do you plan to join the Vegas competition :D :D :D