STOP RECOMMENDING DISTROS, recommend DESKTOPS instead!
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
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00:00 Intro
00:37 Sponsor: Monitor and secure your internet access with Safing
01:19 Desktop Environments
02:57 Distros are NOT their desktop
05:01 The DE creates the first impression
06:40 The distro still matters
09:33 Sponsor: 150€ off your Slimbook Executive Ultrabook
10:00 Support the channel
Let's begin with a quick refresher: a desktop environment is the compilation of all programs that are going to make your graphical desktop.
Linux has plenty of these desktops environments, and the choice of that desktop environment is what is going to make or break your first experience with Linux.
Ok, so desktop environments are important. But why are they more important than the distribution?
Well, the first thing is most people conflate a distribution and its default desktop environment. This only works for one distro, and that's elementary OS, because their desktop environment and the experience they provide isn't really available in other distros.
In some cases, I'd say the changes that have been added are enough to turn these customizations into another desktop entirely. Other changes are really not that important, like what Ubuntu adds on top of GNOME, or the Manjaro GNOME version. So, virtually any desktop implementation from a distro, can be replicated onto any other distro. Which means that the distro itself doesn't really matter for the graphical experience.
What makes the experience good, or bad, is the desktop environment. We could argue that the implementation of it, or the stability of the distro's base could play a role, but it's really minor compared to the experience with the desktop, and its default programs.
On top of that, you can install almost all desktops on almost all distributions, whatever the default desktop you picked.
For someone who's already familiar with Linux, distros DO matter, quite a lot, just as the philosophy of the distro itself, the personal preferences, the experience we had with various other distros... It's all important.
For a beginner, these elements do not matter at all. Someone starting with Linux won't care about BTRFS or ext4, about systemd or not systemd, about using flatpaks, snaps, or legacy packaging formats, like RPMs and DEBS.
Beginners will rarely, or at least SHOULDN't HAVE TO interact with these elements of their system. They should use graphical solutions that abstract all of these differences for them, and make them basically irrelevant.
What we should recommend to beginners is a desktop environment first: do they prefer the look and feel of KDE? GNOME, Pantheon, Cinnamon, or something else? Once they've decided on that, then they can be guided towards a distribution, even though they could pick any that uses that desktop, and they would probably be fine. 
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Stop recommending distros, recommend doctors instead. Every smart human being knows that there's no high quality operating system better than Windows 11. Why do you even bother recommending spyware like Linux?
@@abdallahtarek3602 HE WATCHES YOU WHEN YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT, THINK
@@sigmawolf228 Mmm incel detected
Distros does make a difference as well. I'd say recommend both. I have SEVERAL desktops on KDE Neon - which is just Ubuntu with KDE as a DEFAULT desktop. Also have MATE, XFCE, and I dunno, more stuff.
What are your favorite features?
“Most people confuse the distro with the desktop environment.” Same as people not knowing the difference between a browser or a search engine.
Exactly!
For many people, "my google isn't working" can mean "my connection to the internet isn't working", "my web browser isn't working" or "the search engine isn't working". So, I clearly see the point in don't talk about what's beneath the DE to a Linux beginner, or to any person who doesn't have interest in computers beyond it being a mandatory task when doing their job.
Or the people who can't tell the difference between the hardware and the OS !
I work in a tech hotline for an internet provider. I stopped counting long ago the times I had to tell people that they should enter their router's address into the address bar instead of Google's search bar
Because the most used operating systems (Windows, Mac) only have 1 desktop environment so it's only natural.
And when someone actually uses Linux, most of those people aren't really gonna change their DEs once they choose a distro.
Even if they do, there can be compatibility issues.
So yeah, it's not quite the same as Google and Google Chrome
This should have been the first video that I watched two years ago when I first started trying to figure out what this Linux thing was all about. It took me a lot of time to realize that all my good and bad impressions were impressions of desktop enviroments and that it is DEs that really make the difference in the eyes of the newbie.
This video relevant as now bruh, 2 years ago you don’t have much to choose. Tell me what a not huge difference at all from 2 years ago, distro support and integration?
@@muhammadyusoffjamaluddin because piotr is not a beginner anymore, and this video is not what he needs now.
Linux has a problem where the biggest advocates are the most experienced people, and often they don't have the perspective necessary to nicely introduce newbies into the community.
Welcome aboard to the wide world of Linux. I determined about ten years ago to become windows free after a long stretch of dabbling that began with redhat 7.3, and the very first thing I did was compare gnome with kde - I liked kde better, but you might disagree. Except for being at work [which I have no contol over tech choices], it has gone well. There are some quirks from time to time.... I find I must pay attention to video card and printer selection when building new systems, but its never been a show stopper - and as Linux shows staying power, things have improved over the last two decades. Today... I'm working from a kubuntu system that just won't quit.
...until you realize the distro's choice of package manager is probably more important than the desktop if you're anything more than a rank newbie. So now you're on something like Mint which runs Cinnamon so you're not really on mainline KDE or Gnome anymore...
Very few newbies are going to care about the difference between distro and desktop. As a casual Linux user I have zero interest in installing new desktops, I just go with a distro that defaults with something I like to make my life easy
That's all an operating system is for.
Thing is, distros often give you a choice between a few different DEs.
What's your distro?
@@edwardnihal248 usually mint but I've recently switched to pop and have been enjoying it
The point is not to try many environments for yourself; the point is to point noobies to the most accessible solution to them, the one that will make THEIR life easy.
2:45 “Using workspaces instead of minimizing windows”
With that one sentence, I finally understand what workspaces are for! This whole time I’ve been ignoring them, since I could never tell why they’re useful. I always thought it was weird that there’s no minimize button by default.
Wow same here, for real !
Same. A lot goes unexplained.
I was the same to start with but then once you get used to them a 'minimise only' computer like Windows feels so clumsy and limiting to work with!
My wife just started using Mac OS for work after decades of Windows. I'm used to having multiple workspaces (as a long time Mac user) but she still insists on having tons of open app windows all on the one workspace and using Mission Control to switch apps. Drives me nuts seeing that but it works for her. One step at a time.
Me, a new Elementary user:
“I like your words computer man!”
Honestly I’m often super lost in what the differences is in all of these things, which lead me to having a terrible time trying Linux in the past. Elementary helped by being super simple for this here casual user.
Hey welcome to linux man have fun!
@@kr0w035 is zorin lite good for 4gigs if you want to do some amount of multitasking?
@@aperture0 even normal Zorin would work fine, Zorin lite would work
@@randomname2437 Well, actually I didn't like Zorin so I moved to MX Linux, feels much better than Zorin
For a beginner, some distros do have ease of use elements, namely their approach to proprietary drivers, codecs, etc. There is a difference between being able to do something vs. being able to do something *easily* or having it configured out of the box.
The answer is that both the distro and the desktop are important, but I would approach them as filters for narrowing your focus, i.e., eliminating options. I agree that the desktop environment is a good filter to start with. If a certain DE resonates more with you, then narrow your focus on distros that offer the best out-of-the-box experience with that DE. From there you can choose based on other factors like app availability, documentation, etc.
The above notwithstanding, if we're talking about true beginners and not computer enthusiasts or tinkerers, why not just start with Zorin or Pop_OS? Given that these are trying to deliver a great out-of-the-box experience, what are the reasons why they wouldn't be your go-to recommendation for a beginner? You might add Elementary to that list, though I would not say it's tailored to beginners per se.
Zorin is awesome for beginners, especially with zorin layouts.
As someone probably just barely beyond a beginner I definitely agree, this video makes good points on the DE and not judging a flavor based on the default, but I would say for a beginner the distro does still matter absolutely. When it comes to codecs and drivers like you said I have had very mixed success depending on the distro and hardware. For instance at one point I was using Pop OS and decided to dip my toe into arch with Manjaro when I got a new desktop. I was able to solve most of my issues fine, but the one big thing I was consistently having issues with was trying to get the graphics drivers right so that my triple monitors would work properly. It's hard to remember now exactly but I was spending hours and hours on forums looking for fixes and I think there were some things I was able to do to get it mostly working with xrandr but it wouldn't always save in that state, it just was too annoying to be a daily setup after a while. So eventually I decided to try out Ubuntu again and not only have I never had that problem since but I've just generally run into significantly less buggy behaviors in general.
@@mossicely Yeah, until you feel somewhat comfortable with troubleshooting, sticking with "mainstream" distros can make your life easier, largely because they're well understood with more documentation and help resources. Also, I've found that sometimes brand-new and/or boutique distros can have little "bugs" in them: you install it, go to do something mundane, and encounter some type of error or issue right out of the box. It might not be insurmountable, but it just adds unnecessary overhead if you're new to Linux.
That said, I do think going through the Arch install process is a great way to learn more about Linux. There are lots of videos that make this less intimidating. The process might seem arcane at first, but thinking about what's happening at each step will help you understand more about the underlying architecture. Again, not a Day 1 thing, but something to do once you've gotten your feet wet.
Tldr
So good, Nick! How we use something on a daily basis, especially for beginners, is a serious and important aspect. This is why we have human centred design, UX, UI design, etc. to make something usable. DEs are sooo important, not only for beginners, but for everyone. I’m glad to hear you surface the technical and philosophical debates that overpower conversations about Linux and overwhelm anybody outside the community. They certainly have their place and they are important but when that’s all an outsider encounters, they instantly turn away with no desire to come back until they believe Linux has ‘matured’. Love, love, love this video. Well done!
This being the case, I've been wanting to switch my old laptop over to Linux for a bit now, but ofc it comes down to which desktop and distro to use. I'd love to see an up to date master list video of desktop environments, might make the choice easier.
i agree on that
I mean, the two big ones are Gnome and KDE. You're better off picking one of those 2 unless you have a specialized need or know exactly what you want.
Gnome, KDE and Cinnamon are generally good choices to start with.
I like Budgie as well but I think it still has some of the issues Gnome has with regards to its settings menu
EDIT: Pop!_OS and Zorin OS both offer heavily customized versions of GNOME that offer pretty different experiences
Xfce and LXQt are good for really low-end PCs
Bruh. Literally no sewrch and learn. Distros should always be recommended. What this is failing to mention is most distros either tell you about what DE they ship with air the options on DE and WM you have. People just want this shit spoonfed to them and that's why we have problems with windows today.
Depending how old it is I'd be inclined to go with a lightweight distro like Lubuntu (which is installed on the laptop I'm typing this on, incidentally). I think it uses its own LXQt-based desktop, but it's very Windows like.
Great video! My husband and I are brand new to Linux, and like you said, choosing Pop OS was not the biggest thing for us, but trying KDE Plasma desktop instead of the default Gnome made things much easier to use. We ditched Windows altogether on our desktop and laptop, and found all the info online very helpful in our decision.
If we are talking about beginners - yes. Beginner in Linux but not in IT is different story. Some distros has specific elements, like YaST in openSUSE or rolling Arch, openSUSE Tumbleweed vs release cycled Fedora, openSUSE Leap. So when we are talking about system for specific tasks distro might be more important than DE.
Oh yea. I use Arch (...btw...) and I can't live on Linux without AUR.
I'd argue that Linux Mint IS easier for beginners when compared to like, Ubuntu + Cinnamon. Linux Mint comes with a lot of stuff out of the box that "just work" which is perfect to have a hassle free Linux experience.
Sure. But most people that understands (or are impacted by) those things know enough about linux to choose a distro by themselves. No recommendations needed.
@@juanerasmog as beginners in Linux they might be even unaware of that things and differencea. A few of my friends installed Ubuntu themselves just because it most popular. And changing distro made their life easier.
Well, Mykola, this video IS about beginners.
After the video: Wholeheartedly agree. As long as a user keeps out of a terminal, and sticks to a gui, they will be fine. The main issue is installing something not in the normal repos. A new user may look online for it in the software store, and not see it. Look online, and could end up having to try installing something from the aur. Just get a .tar file (I hated these, it took me a while before I realised it was just like me googling how to install a zip), and not know what to do. Even then, a windows user may not even go to the software store to begin with. (they don't have a good alternative on windows, the microsoft store is something I don't like using)
That's the problem with the Linux world. Each distro is an OS. There are too many package managers. Sometimes, the "Store" has an old version of the software.... way too old.
I tried installing LibreOffice downloaded from the official website on my Kubuntu. It's just too much work.
How many noobs want to go through that much trouble?
Win 95 solved it 27 y ago.
@@louistournas120 how did win95 solve it that Linux can? What, by downloading a file from online that could be a virus or something? And with Linux, now you can't make an equivilant considering you can't just consolidate to one distro.
@@TazerXI Maybe it is not fair to say that Win 95 solved it. I think most software were packaged with InstallShield. I've used it a couple of times. The role that Win 95 plays in this is that it has a kind of registry. So, the software shows up in the control Panel -> Add/Remove programs.
It should be possible to make a virus for Linux as well and you can package it as RPM or DEB and you can put it on your website. It's just that the virus kids are far less interested in Linux.
Applications for Linux seem to come in all sorts of forms. Some are tar or zipped. The instructions will tell you where to place the files. Most likely, you will have to use the terminal to do this. For example, under Kubuntu, you can't log in as admin by default. You can't run Dolphin as admin by default. Yes, I know the solution to both of these.
Some come in the form of sh file. I guess this is a kind of script with some compiled files in it. Again, you need to use the terminal.
Look at LibreOffice. It's a popular software. You have to download it, unzip, go to the console and you need to know the command to install the 50 DEB files.
For the Windows version, it is a single executable or msi file.
In the Linux world, they have never been able to move away from console commands.
I think that console commands are just not appropriate for average users.
Also, there needs to be a virus scanner for Linux.
@@louistournas120 yea, it is too complex when you have to go to a terminal. Software should be distributed using a packaging format like flatpak, and this is growing ever more popular. Getting a tar bell file is confusing and I didn't know it was just like a zip. And then yea you can get viruses, I was more so referring to one's like flatpak, the official repos, or something, where software can be moderated
@@TazerXI How are you going to moderate software? There are thousands of programs thousands of lines of code and some are 100 klines and above. It is open source and free.
I think it was the Apache project that was infected once. Someone added some code and it went into the official release.
Not being an admin on your system helps but an application can delete all your files.
Also, there are various security holes in Linux.
I love your approach to simplify the choice. My wife uses MacOS and when she told me she wanted to try linux I told her... just try any linux with Gnome. She picked her own distro after a quick "best gnome distros"
I've been using Linux for 20 years and I've tried dozens of distros but always end up using any distro with KDE. Each to their own!
@@yash1152 i don't think she will, especially for long time mac user
Gets at the heart of the matter! It took me a while to understand that literally any distro can be "best gnome/kde based" distro. Definitely, for a noob, the look and flow of a DE makes or breaks the experience.
Kudos to the amazing content!
I'm confused between kde based distro vs zorin lite (xfce)
4gigs ram only.
:sad_voilin_plays:
Try both on live media and see. If the performance sacrifice on kde isn't your cake, go with xfce
@@TheSuhartoBanerjee by your comment can i infer that xfce is still better than kde performance wise?
@@aperture0 usually with default settings that's the case. Now it might differ slightly depending on your setup
I saw the title and knew I have to drop a like and watch this video. After watching it, I fully agree with the desktop environment being the main thing to choose from. It made me remember my first tries using Linux, was Ubuntu in my case when they were still using Unity as default and I was fine with that despite blindy downloading it back then and not looking at screenshots, but when the switch to GNOME Shell happened I switched to Xfce before going down the rabbit hole of distro hopping haha.
After trying some DEs (Xfce, Cinnamon, MATE, GNOME, KDE, Pantheon) I found that for my use case of having minimal hardware accelaration due to having lower end hardware, DEs like Xfce, MATE, and Cinnamon were most usable even inside a VM, while GNOME and KDE with their animations and compositing just chugged hard, then there's Pantheon which was a weird one that worked fine in terms of performance but did not have a lot of stuff I would expect in a DE and its pretty limited settings.
Congratulations, Nick! What a fantastic video made with a lot of wisdom!
I couldn't so precisely answer this question and now I can. I don't think people want to choose between all the possibilities. They only need a good one. You went straight to the point and showed how to do it. Very good!
Thanks a lot :)
@@TheLinuxEXP a comment bot stole this comment....
Finally! Someone answers these questions and does a fantastic job describing the multitude of choices a new user has to weed through. I believe this is why more newbies find it difficult to adopt the Linux platform. It's extremely confusing with so many districts, when people are really looking for the perfect GUI for themselves. Great video!
Linux users are RIDICULOUS for making "distros" the forefront of the conversation. Maybe learn the basic differences between Debian and Arch, but even that isn't necessary. Just use your EYES to find a desktop environment that looks best to you, and go with that
Exactly!
Agreed! Most computer users (regardless of OS), and especially most beginners, will only ever interact with their computer via the GUI. So the UX of that GUI is the most important thing to them. Just look at how much agita there has been over Windows 11 not allowing you to have a separate icon on the Task Bar for each window of a program. GUI dominates UX with modern OSes, and probably the only other things that users care as much about are compatibility (can it run the software I want to run?) and stability.
@@natbarmore DEs are a major selling point but what really is a make and break thing is the ease of installing and uninstalling programs sure for power users it simple but until a EXE standard is agreed to new users will be at the mercy of shitty stores apps.
Which is really annoying for people actually looking for distro-specific distinctions.
@@snintendog there is an executable standard. The issue is that installing things directly could lead to dependency conflicts.
I mean, ultimately they're going to download a distro and not a desktop environment, so they have to know about distros anyway. It's definitely correct to say that the DE is by far the most important part of a distribution (for newbies especially), and people should be told clearly about that so that they don't conflate different things OR feel overwhelmed by uselessly detailed info as newbies. Giving desktop environments more importance when we introduce new people to Linux is definitely a good idea, but I think presenting it as an either/or choice is ultimately hard to apply in "the real world", where in making a real recommendation you can't avoid talking about distros.
Hi, Nick! When recommending a Linux distribution to someone who wants to migrate from Windows environment and its licenses, I think that the most important thing is - as I've learned with my experience - to know "what kind of equipment does this person have" (processor and generation, amount of memory, and so on). Precisely because in my country - Brazil - hardware is not so cheap to buy, so many people use older or modest equipments. As an example, I knew a 37-year old secretary who had a 11-year-old laptop with Windows 7, which she used when she was at the university, and she couldn't afford to buy a newer one - she lost her job just before the beginning of the pandemic. I helped her making backup of the things she wanted, formatted the laptop and installed Linux Mint XFCE. She now works as a high-school teacher and still uses her computer to prepare texts for classes, and her 10-year-old daughter also uses it. For her it was very easy to get accustomed to a light Linux distro and environment which looks like Windows, which also includes LibreOffice, and HPLIP, which allows her print texts using her old HP printer.
"Many people will choose Garuda Linux because it looks very different from other distros even though you can replicate that look in minutes on any KDE-based distro".
Feeling called out... but I would say you're spot on about what new users are drawn towards. Garuda really opened my eyes on what KDE can do. All other default KDE-based distros looked too corporate.
just recomend any distro with kde desktop and if they are mac users they then should first try gnome
Wait a minute... Who are you?
@@cnr_0778 wait who are you?
It’s a good point. I started with KDE because I kept hearing it’s the best but when I actually used it I got annoyed that every customization was never doing what I want and I spent more time tweaking rather than enjoying my computer so I switch to gnome and have been much happier.
Until an update breaks a gnome extension setting or tweaks setting gnome is great. The good news is that is rare. The better news is after using it for a while it becomes obvious that oh, an update must've reset the extensions or tweaks, so I have to figure out what is going on and turn something back on.
I suppose I could just stick with vanilla Gnome and Adwaita, but where is the Linuxy fun in that?
As a long time Linux user that has went back to KDE many times to "give it one more shot", I very much agree.
I switched to Linux about a week ago and started with KDE, then realized I hated the Windows design language plus KDE felt clunky, switched to Arch with GNOME and haven't looked back since.
I agree. However if anyone asks me how to get into Linux 99% of the time I'm gonna tell them Linux mint. (exceptions depend on the person and what they need)
Indeed. Tried and true around 11 years straight of consistent stability yet NOT beyond ancient updates versus straight Debian ( LMDE is a happy medium between those two imo) and yet not freaking bleeding edge to the point of INstability or bugs not worked out yet.
LM Cinnamon is what I always recommend to winbloat users seeking privacy and freedom
That's a cogent argument, Nick. I'm a Linux missionary, and most of my potential converts balk at confusing things like Terminal. They want a simple mouse click environment. That's why if they come from Win 7, I recommend XFCE (as with Zorin) and if they come from W10, Cinnamon (as with Mint). No others, as good as some others are.
@@yash1152 Because a machine that came with 7 will handle Zorin better, and one with 10 will handle Mint. Both are excellent beginner distros that closely resemble the OS they replace under my recommendation.
Haven't watched the video yet, but I think this makes sense. To a new user the difference between distros is the desktop. I still think certain things are made easier by your distro, tutorials that focus on apt instead of pacman for example.
Yeah, but the general experience will be virtually the same for a beginner :)
@@TheLinuxEXP if they use say just a graphical installer, it will be fine, but if they read tutorials and see to use a terminal, then you might get a situation like linus on manjaro using apt.
But sticking to a gui and not checking there and not going to a terminal will do them fine for everything
That’s why I usually suggest getting a debian distro. Then pick a desktop environment such as cinnamon, gnome or kde. Usually suggest a popular desktop environment as it’s usually better, more complete and better support. Then find a distro that comes with one of those.
@@cameronmonks1561 That is why I recently recommended pop os to a friend who wanted to test linux on an old laptop. Knew he would do just fine with it
@@TazerXI THIS!
This is awesome, I had no idea this was the case. You have clarified so much so quickly. Thanks!!
Excellent video!
You couldn't be more correct. In my case, I've always been more comfortable using KDE/Plasma. Maybe because it was the first DE I used. Any distro that I have tried or used as my daily driver (Tumbleweed) has always been on the basis on how well they implement KDE/Plasma.
Whilst I think many of the points here are good ones, I think as a beginner you also don't want to start with a distribution that will mean you need to separately install or enable things like printing support, DVD playback, graphics card support, access to your network fileshares, access to a full range of software in repositories (or even a GUI package manager!), etc., rather than having these things work 'out of the box' (or at least as nearly as possible). Similarly, beginning on a distribution where it's hard to search for information on fixing problems, or where you'll end up in the kind of forum where if you don't know how to give good information from log files you'll receive a mauling from regulars and be told to RTFM will be a very negative experience, and may cause people to give up. But yes, where you are dealing with relatively popular and beginner-friendly distributions (and there are lots of them now!) there's not so much difference and I'd agree that the desktop is probably going to be more of a factor in satisfaction.
So, no Arch. Got it.😅
Yes, for a beginner the DE is more important that the actual distro it runs on.
And now we have to take the beginner down the rabbit hole why Ubuntu, Fedora and Pop!_OS all use GNOME yet look so different at the same time 😅
(Not to forget that we are completely unprepared when they find out about the other Ubuntu versions and the rest of the based on Ubuntu gang 😬)
"And now we have to take the beginner down the rabbit hole why Ubuntu, Fedora and Pop!_OS all use GNOME yet look so different at the same time " ....What's the answer to that?
@@sweetmelon3365 Honestly, I have no good answer for that. "Gnome is versatile and can be configured to your liking" is true, yet not really. A new and inexperienced Linux user will not change anything because they don't know how. Moreover the ordinary person wants a PC that works and not a machine to tinker and play with.
The AUR makes things a lot simpler for the new user. Arco makes setting up your own DE easy. The main line DEs suck - and I can throw shade because I'm not a tuber and Manjaro and KDE do suck coincidentally.
Very true. For me what made the difference was finding out about gnome. The first couple times I tried Linux I tried Manjaro xfce because I’d heard good things about manjaro and xfce is the first one listed on the downloads page. Each time I tried it the environment wasn’t for me and I confused it with thinking Linux wasn’t for me. Then eventually I tried pop os and gnome just clicked with me. Then after a few weeks I went back to the Manjaro download page and got manjaro gnome and it was perfect. Another factor was probably just that I have a dual gpu laptop I use with an external screen and the default pop os nvidia only setting fixed my display issues and helped me realize what I needed to do to fix it on other distributions
Finally, I've been trying to figure this out for what feels like ages, and this is the first video I've found that very clearly and simply states the difference.
When I was planning my switch from windows to Linux (~4 months ago), I was choosing between Ubuntu and Garuda. I choose Ubuntu because of the vaaast community support it had (and also stability).
tried both (currently on kubuntu). had good experiences with both but arch felt a bit weird to use for me but other than that, both are made really good
This might seem like the case but there are other distros that have vast community support as well. It's not just ubuntu.
@@SirRandallDoesStuff if the choice is between Ubuntu and Garuda, then Ubuntu clearly have a much bigger community support.
Yes, there may be other options with community support as good as Ubuntu, or even better, but for some reason that only the OP knows, they weren't under consideration to begin with.
Same here, although I switched over ~8 years ago. I didn't really care what desktop environment I was using, so I just went with what distro had the most support at the time. One of the first things I did was install a whole bunch of different desktop environments anyways. As it turns out, XFCE is the one I like best.
Cool, I was once again accidentally been doing the right thing. I've been doing this for years (primarily with a preference for KDE). I never quite understood the fanboyism of different distros when it's the desktops that really matter.
Switched to KDE two months ago, with Bismuth (extension for Kwin to do tiling wm stuff) and it's the best visual experience for me, would recommend
Experiences opposite.
Huge fan of Gnome, but only on Ubuntu, because the other distros cannot handle correctly the power of the interface.
@@yash1152 you are right!
Thank you.
I used xfce desktop environment as a beginner and I like it
But I have one problem which is when I want use the clipboard with hot key super + v to pop up the menu like in kde it's doesn't work
Great insight! Your wisdom is refreshing.
As a follow-up, you should make a video about which distros are the best beginner experience for the different desktop environments.
My suggestions would be:
Cinnamon - Linux Mint
Gnome - Fedora
KDE - KDE Neon
XFCE - Manjaro, Xubuntu or maybe even Zorin Lite?
Mate - Ubuntu Mate (Mint Mate as runner-up)
i3 or Sway - Arch for sure
I agree that it should be DEs and not distros that should be the influential factor, but there's a caveat I'd like to add.
I DO NOT recommend installing DE that does not come default with the distro. Rather get the official version; for eg, if you want KDE on Ubuntu get Kubuntu instead of installing KDE on Ubuntu. For all the touted flexibility of being able to install DEs, the reality is that there are some configurations that will get messed up and the overall theming and visual appearance will be affected. Uninstalling it is going to be a hassle and you won't be able to clean it up. I don't know if it has been improved now but that was my experience.
It's beginner-friendly as well. Live-testing the distro with the preferred DE is far better rather than having to go through the hassle of installing it through terminal.
This makes sense now. When I first started fooling around with Linux, several years ago, the desktop managers weren't as complete and powerful as they are now. There were things I could ONLY do in terminal, and there wasn't adequate newbie-friendly documentation for me to get things done. When I went back to Linux (starting with some Ubuntu flavor or other), the desktop environments were much more complete. I'll still stick to distros that come with non-free codecs, but other than that... the desktop makes the difference.
What a fantastic video!! Thank you.. I'm glad I subscribed!
Great topic! This is a question I've had for years and I still dont understand why for example Arch is SO important ..it adds almost nothing compared to the desktop experience.
Exactly! Peiple like it because it gets updates really quick, but it's a terrible choice for a production device for someone who doesnt read changelogs
People love Arch because it is minimal and lets them set up their computer exactly how they want it. It has a fantastic amount of desktop environment choices (AFAIK more than any other distribution, even Debian), and all of the package stay up to date.
It targets a pretty specific type of user though, and most people will not have a good experience with it if we're being honest.
@@TheLinuxEXP which ones are the best for production?
@@edwardnihal248 if by production you mean like install once never update or restart (like for a server) Debian, and for workstations that get turned off and updated I'd recommend Fedora and unironically Arch
I'm just going off by the title and thumb.
You are absolutely right that people shouldn't be recommending distros and instead focus on DE's but that is a part of the problem, some DEs are made for certain distros or work best with certain distros (Gnome & Fedora)
Now i'll watch the video, brb.
TBH gnome is one of very few DEs not made for specific distro...... It's just that fedora is one of few distros that provides real gnome
Excellent video. Clear explanation. Helped me a lot.
Is there a website that has a list of these how they are spelled and how you would typically switch one to another ?
An interesting take, Nick. It makes me think of the mistakes we linux users make when recommending our favourite os to possible users. Thanks for the perspective.
Distro does make a lot of difference. Opening snaps vs actual snappy native packages, or software install experience. There are a lot of things that a user will face immediately beyond the desktop. I personally recommend manjaro kde to any new user, because its the only distro that i am reasonably sure will not force the user to use terminal for a week at least(for setting up ppas in ubuntu for eg) and the DE is comfortable to windows users
I agree. I avoid Ubuntu anything since they are Snaps everything. So, distro kinda matters.
It's important to separate the two and recommend one and the other. As for distributions, their original intent was maintenance and distribution of the GNU/Linux operating system, in modern times it generally means in the form of packages. Each of the major distributions has a different philosophy and approach, which can greatly impact your experience. For example if you were to recommend MATE desktop, which is available on a lot of distributions, the experience of the user can vary greatly depending on the things like the age of packages in the chosen distribution. Cosnmetics don't always tell the whole story.
Well... This will be a problem when you push something like cinammon on ubuntu for example. The snap philosophy is something that we must avoid to recommend to people. This has two problems:
1 - snaps kill boot time
2 - If using snaps as a final user become popular, most applications will use snap as well. So we must avoid using them to make devs embrace another format.
This situation is a Ubuntu thing, but you can see how the distro itself can be a game changer when choosing a system. We should see linux systems as one single thing (including DE). I mean, Zorin have Gnome as default, so we must see Zorin as a gnome distro (even if it means to forget about the xfce version). Avoiding fragmentation will help users and developers to choose a platform to work on, and join all effort to make that platform better.
Yeah, I have GNOME on Debian configured exactly the same as I had it when I used Ubuntu, but my computer boots and runs much faster, and I have far less random bugs and issues.
such a needed video these days. DE is all newcomers care about imo. Even when i showed my friend Linux Mint and Pop OS with Pop's better Nvidia support, he wanted Linux Mint instead of Pop at the cost performance. Thankfully I told him to keep Pop and just get the desktop environment that Mint uses. I think when he logged into Cinnamon while running Pop a lightbulb went off lol, but i get the confusion!
I'd come to that conclusion after trying a whole lot of distributions - difference being I watch you instead of the reverse. I just finished updating 5 systems from Mint 20.2 to Mint 20.3 and every laptop or desktop runs as before. That leads me to claim that the people behind Mint are world class!
Great argument and very well made, Nick!
Thanks! Finally, someone that has a similar view about Linux and Beginners!!! The very first moment I tried to chat with someone about this a new religious war was fought about Distros, packages and likewise. When I tried to explain that all these things are klingon speech to non-star-trek-viewers they told me that you have to learn linux as you do with other OS's. On my argument that learning Android or iOS take only Milliseconds for knowing what tapp, hold and slide does the discussion was terminated.
Hahaha the color green. Green is every where. Mint loool
Green is good. Or was it greed?
god it just hit me that it's green because mint like the plant is green....
I don't understand the green trend. Manjaro, openSUSE, and Mint are all doing it - I love green but I just don't think it works very well for an operating system.
@@anonymous_opinions1924 weed
@@TheLinuxEXP greed w33d 😂
Totally agree with you. I am still on windows for work, but.... all my machines that lost support over time and still works perfectly are all on Linux. I am speaking about 2008 hardware onward, with no issue whatsoever apart a Wi-Fi card back in 2009.. which as been solved by the Linux community then. I hate throwing away perfectly healthy machines just because MS or Vendors stop supporting (driver issues...).
Exactly. Whatever hardware you have, Linux should have a distro and desktop for you. An OS that can run all systems, currently. Making the installs and updates easy is key to growing the ecosystem.
OMG, this advice totally helps with how I'm looking at selecting a distro! And I'm a nerd.
I'd never really thought of picking by DE because I thought of distros as a guess at what will be bloated while missing dependencies. If I can find a DE I can live with, I might mind less if I have to figure out how to make each thing work.
You've hit a few nails on the head there Nick. Coming from windows myself and trying Linux for years without success, I think it depends on how computer literate you are. If you're a power user on Windows, Linux Mint isn't going to cut it for you. By the same token if you're a basic user, something like KDE might be too overboard.
And that's where distros come in. As you said, some distros customise the release which can make or break the experience until you know what you're doing - then it doesn't matter so much. And all of these things add up to the experience - What file manager is included, email, browser etc. Even to how it's configured to look out of the box.
IMO I think new users should try a few DE until they know how they will work with Linux and what they feel comfortable with. Then add on other considerations like Package Managers, file managers and how easy it is to change the looks.
Personally I didn't like the Debian package managers of a lot of those distributions, but liked the way Manjaro and Arch did things. All personal preference.
Wow.... the Vanced crew be quick today!
I feel distro is more important to me than desktop environment, though I've grown up with Linux so don't know what it's like as a beginner. I feel somewhat matters is stability and ethos of interaction. So I feel to get the desktop environment on the distro that makes sense, e.g. something like openSUSE for someone vaguely proficient with technical management whereas a distro that aims to have all proprietary codecs and 'just work' like Manjaro I think aims to be nowadays but might be less intuitive to configure might be better. I know openSUSE as my distro doing quite a lot its own way through yast separating it from desktop may be making me less impartial, as another example I have heard that openSUSE is much slower to update in NA than the EU, something that it's true a beginner on leap(non-rolling release) might not be that effected by but might still lead to a bad user feel. Still feel that ethos of distro's effects the feel substantially.
With Gnome tweak and Gnome extensions, you can customize Gnome at your taste. Just take Debian with Gnome, move and adjust the panels like you want to have them, with an extension (like Dash to Panel) and take Arcmenu extension and chose how you want your menu to look like.
I'd say the second most important aspect is how up to date packages are, when I started using linux I used linux mint and the outdated packages really drove me nuts because I was missing features
To some extent, though, hardware should be taken into account when choosing a desktop environment--older and/or low-end hardware may not be able to handle what newer and/or more powerful hardware can handle.
This is handled by the linux kernel. So the choice shouls be:
- fist, which desktop environment i want
- which distro with this DE offers me the most recent kernel
You said stop recommend distros and you recommended Elementary OS, then I have one Zorin OS is great
I used to recommend it, but in reality, what I recommend is Pantheon, their desktop :)
tbh as mac user i was quite forced to switch in the old style ubuntu gnome(launpad ☑️ mission control ☑️ dock ☑️ integration ☑️...), elementary isn't close to macos while damn ubuntu is basically the same gestures and feeling...it could have cons but, as workflow, it is like my mac.
if you are windows based, well, choose whatever you want...everything is better but macos is great and only ubuntu give those vibes of workflow.
for mac users ubuntu is the only real good choice!
I had never thought of it that way before but it makes perfect sense. Great video and insight.
I love your RUclips Channel! I watch your videos always whenever they are released.
Not many "Linux people" get it, but this video really pinpoiont it.
I am 46 and have been using windows from version 3.1, the last 30 years as an IT pro, but late last year I made the jump to Linux, and I would agree, the desktop matters, the rest is just when something does not work and you need to Google it...
Mint with Cinamon desktop, with Google Chrome installed and a Windows user is right at home (Firefox is just not good enough).
The OS is supposed to support what the user wants to do, not be in the way as many "Linux people" want it to or be a platform to sell more stuff as Microsoft want, just start my game or let me browse the web...
Who are the "many 'Linux people'" who WANT the OS to be in the way? Who would want that? Can you give examples, or something? I just can't picture it.
fine then ill recommend gentoo :P
(gonna actually watch the video now)
Not gentooooo
@@TheLinuxEXP not Linux from scratch...AHHHHH
For me, I always first recommend distros to someone depending on what will they use it for, for example a friend of mine who is also a gamer ask me how to install linux in his pc? That is where I explain him what distros are then recommend which distro should he use, obviously I will recommend a gaming centered distro like Garuda since everything is already pre-installed. Afterwards when you are already in the download page, you now explain him what DEs are. "Hey do you want your distro to have almost the same looks as windows? Then download the KDE version". You only have to recommend DEs to someone if they have some experience to linux (someone who had already tried to use it but not for a long time)....
I am trying pop os now but elementary was my starting os and it's still freaking awesome for any new user. It has a polished feel to it and it keeps too much tinkering away behind a few steps which is great if you are worried about bricking your system. I just think they should have flatpak and snap support from the go too. Both have their pros and cons but out of the box options on applications are great for end user experience.
I disagree. Garuda Linux, FerenOS, kubuntu, Manjaro KDE, and Fedora KDE all use the KDE, but your OOTB and on-boarding experiences will be MASSIVELY different between all of them. Same with Gnome, with Ubuntu, Fedora, Manjaro-Gnome, Pop_OS, and Zorin OS.
It's probably because I wouldn't recommend a distro that doesn't ship the vanilla experience of a desktop :)
Oh my god, finally one of my comment passes through. What is up with Linux channels having really bad auto-removal???
@@TheLinuxEXP I mean ideally I want something like Ubuntu Budgie Welcome where they just give you Desktop Layout Switcher as part of on-boarding. Personally, I think on-boarding is the most important factor.
@@TheLinuxEXP The funny thing is I tried 3 different desktops and Cinamon won on letting me use my girlfriend as background the way I was used to from Windows 🙂
@@TheLinuxEXP you are contradicting your self, in the video you say you would only recommend a DE to newbies, but in the above comment you say you wouldn't recommend a "distro" that doesn't ship the vanilla experience. is that not recommending a distro? so which is it? you recommend a distro or DE... or maybe both? I know I typically recommend a distro and DE for newbies
Doesn’t matter what distro you use, as long as it’s arch :)
Oh no
Dual booting manjaro/mint. I decide to find out what all you arch folks are fussing about
Hello. thanks for this. I just switched to linux today and its my first time. I really like the fedora distro but had to switch to mint because i of the interface. now I am planning to go back to fedora and just install cinamon desktop. would it be worth it?
im new and this channel was the most friendly and understandable source of info to clear thoughts that i was able to find, thanks for helping
There is nothing to recommend, everybody knows KDE is the only way to go.
Hahaha
Yeh i always recommend KDE to everyone simply because it looks similar to windows which most people are familiar and comfortable with.
Except for KDE, it doesn't have limitations.
Much appreciated for the video.
Wonderful. In teaching or introducing anything, never lead with fine details
I'm trying to get into Linux myself using Cinnamon Mint - As for snaps, flatpacks, and whatever else, all I care about is if it works correctly.
Really hated trying to use widgets. I was expected to know that a + button at the bottom of a list that you add things to meant enable. When every other list box in existence with a + button means add to the list. Took me a while to figure it out, uninstalling and reinstalling the related software to what I wanted. Online help only detailed how to download and install, but nothing on enabling. All I wanted was a manual UI for redshift in my bottom right
Oh and does anyone know the name of a good alarm clock package?
I had previously tried many times to work on ubuntu gnome but because of my laptop's 768p resolution (which made things look too big with adwaita theme) and some touchpad issues I always went back to windows in a day or so. But since few weeks, I have been watching your videos and I must thank you that your videos have kept me inspired me to to switch on linux. I have recently switched to Kubuntu, because I found the customization process easy on that and I could setup a workflow that is similar to windows but with a little touch of mac os and other customizations :). At this point, I don't even feel like going back to windows.
Nice Insight. I always tell people to try the big 4 Desktops, XFCE Gnome KDE Cinnamon.. figure out which one you like first... then figure out the rest. Debian Fedora or Arch based or there distros based off those. I was just thrown into GNome.. and it was my least favorite but I had no idea about the others. I thought Ubuntu Gnome was Linux and that was it.. Hated it.. then I did some research... found what worked for me and have been a Linux user since. The Journey has been great kept my mind busy during the pandemic coming out of the pandemic I learned about Video and Photo editing... Networking, organization in my file systems. Kept a folder off my system for all the speed bumps I got through as my reference guide. Separated them out by the distro's Debian Arch and Fedora. I hopped around for a while, I still do just to see whats going on but once you find your DE the rest starts to come together. Learning the alternative programs to windows only softwares and things like that. I only use Windows for Ableton and Rekordbox the rest is Linux. Even then I send my files through my Linux system to the directory on windows.. as I hate going through there file manager.
"Our little intes-tine struggles..." LOLOLOL I REALLY love his humor...
You are absolutely right!
My first experience, waaaaay back in the 90s, when we didn't have so many choices - I was lost. Nothing made sense. I stuck with Windows and didn't look at Linux again until 2006. The distro I ran in to was Ubuntu, back on Gnome 2. It was Windows like enough I could easily tell where I was going, and unique enough to not be boring. I liked it, but... eh, why do the work of switching. ...and then I saw the previews of Windows Vista! That's it, I'm leaving Windows. I dual booted Windows and Ubuntu for a while, then moved Windows to a VM, and eventually, the Windows VM got relegated to the 2 minor tasks I use it for today - Grabbing DRMed content from proprietary libraries (content I paid for) and removing the DRM, and a few old Windows games that just won't run in Wine. I get nostalic.
However, that experience with Gnome 2 shaped my entire Linux journey. I was on Ubuntu, and got upset when they went to Gnome 3. I got used to Gnome 3 and now it's my favorite. I left Ubuntu for Ubuntu Gnome when regular Ubuntu went to... I dont remember its name, that DE we all hate. When Ubuntu Gnome went away I defaulted back to Ubuntu, then went to Pop for a while, and eventually graduated to Manjaro which I use now.
And what did all that have in common? I kept following my favorite DE. Sure, I have preferences for package managers, I've grown to love ZSH more than BASH, and my laptop performs better on Manjaro than it did on Pop... but I'd give any of that up to stay on Gnome Shell if I had to!
The only times I don't use Gnome shell are on computers with low specs, or when the hardware makes it limited (I have a tablet that I haven't been able to use another distro with, so I'm stuck with Jing's DE). I have a beater laptop that runs Manjaro with XFCE - BUT, I moved the XFCE panel to the top. It's as Gnome-ish as I can make it.
Did you tried Debian?
And Endeavour?
Thanks, Nick. This was a very informative video. It makes me want to try changing my graphical interface.
After watching RUclips for last two days to choose what distro to choose as my first Linux system this video has made it much easier to understand it all.
You have a valid point about all the distros. When I first moved to linux from windows the common suggestion was linux mint. Then after distro hopping I learned about DE's and found cinnamon on a different distro but was familiar with it from trying mint. I soon realized for appearance it's all about the DE. I tried different distros with the same DE and quickly learned the kernel, and the linux base have absolute importance on what's under the hood of the DE. With that said I think most distros are geared toward appearance and the bundling of packages to showcase a custom build of linux on a paticular base distro. I struggled with it at first the idea of a distro on top of a distro made little sense to me. After installing linux 100's of times now I can say I prefer to customize every copy I install. No matter how many distros I try I always find something I want to change about it. I got comfortable with Ubuntu as a base and customized it to my liking, I've now moved onto Alpine linux for a complete system customization catering to what I want from my PC and the results are amazing. Bottom line we all need a PC that serves our purposes and most distros achieve this, making a transition from windows to linux more comfortable. Much like windows you will want to customize linux and most of those changes for beginners will be in appearance so choosing a DE makes complete sense.
Wish I had watched this video when starting on Linux. I totally agree. I remember the confusion when installing Ubuntu KDE and not understanding why it looked so different from the last time I used it.
In my experience:
Gnome: if you come from Mac and want an easy to use and intuitive desktop which works great on laptops.
KDE: if you come from windows and want a slick and powerful highly customizable desktop.
XFCE: if you crave speed and performance over anything else. On low spec hardware it runs smooth and on high end specs… well, it’s so fast you’ll feel like your in the future.
Late to the game but stumbled across this video only now, and as a beginner.... this makes lots of sense! I started trying to understand if I like Linux... well... I got frustrated by the overwhelming number of options, tried to understand as a beginner all the nuances, and ended up installing 7-8 distros without ever using them for a couple of weeks, to realize in the end that I was actually trying to understand stuff waaaaay out of my possibility to really understand. Now trying to choose one Ubuntu based distro and start actually using the system, I will fine tune the technical stuff later when I start knowing a bit of Linux. Funny thing, one of the first videos I stumbled on said the exact opposite, "desktop environment is not important, you have to chose forts the distro, with its package manager, its release policy, its security policy, its init system, ..." well that's all correct, for an expert that knows what he's doing and what he wants from the OS, but not for me that barely understand the terms. This video actually woke me, I can't really evaluate in this stage all these very specific stuff, I'll do this in a year or 2 from now.... thanks!
Bruh, you did good on this video! Excellent viewpoint!
me: "Yes, you'll be good with Linux by using KDE Plasma"
friend: "But where can I get it? There seem to be a lot of distros"
me: "It doesn't matter! Pick one to your liking"
friend: "Okay"
later they chose PearOS
This is a really good take on the subject. The Desktop is what you see and work with as a beginner. And always use one of KDE or GNOME based to begin with, then go for different DE or even just window manager.
(And personally I preferences Gnome, as there are not to many alternatives. Never liked KDE, but YMMV, and I have no problems that others use KDE, good for them. And yes, you can configure Gnome too)
Those legacy package are WAY better then the bloat flatpack etc. Even RPM is better.
And yes, you can still minimize windows in Gnome. But it uses some short set of key bindings to work great.
And on servers, you don't want any desktop at all.😉
Hello Nick,
After watching your video, I installed PortMaster.
After uninstalling it, I systematically experience a loss of ethernet connection when I turn on my computer, preventing me from accessing the internet.
The only solution is to disconnect and reconnect via Network Manager in the Gnome menu, or via network settings.
I guess it's a bad uninstall of PortMaster.
I'm on Ubuntu 20.04, connected to the internet via the ethenet network.
What is the solution ?
Thank you.
I agree with you in many ways though I want to use a distro that stable. I've started using endeavour os with gnome and love it. It's faultless in many ways. You can always choose a different desktop environment on any distribution now.
I guess you could say it comes back to how packages are handled as well. Like does it have an arch base, Ubuntu base or Red Hat. I choose arch because my graphic driver's work perfectly on it, in the other distros it always a struggle.
Excellent point of view 👏👏👏
One of the best videos I've seen about Linux... probably ever. So well put and nicely explained.
This is a really good video. My only critique is that two aspects of a distro is important for a beginner. The first being a good wiki and or forum for the distro so that they can get help when a problem arises. The second being how up to date is it, for example while I love mint, the fact that it uses an older kernel means that it does not work with my wifi card. I also think that one problem that exists is that distribution websites sorta hide their spins/flavors. For example Fedora puts its spins at the bottom of the site, and Ubuntu has their flavors as the last option on the download tab. This means that most people won't know that they offer different DEs. I also really liked how you stressed that DE's are different than distros many beginners can be confused by this, heck even google is confused by this as when I type in list of linux distros, google lists Ubuntu and Kubuntu as being different distros.
You are very polite. I'm a Linux newbie, and you helped me a lot with this video.
Good timing. I switched over to Linux in December and just learned that the default desktop environments are not set in stone in each distro. I think it'd be cool to have Ubuntu's functionality with Peppermints dekstop environment which is aesthetically my favourite. (i forget what its called) Im still not quite there to try changing such a thing though. Lol
Very well said ❤️
Thank you!! This needed saying!! Like a lot!
Definitely the most important video for a beginner. People think that Ubuntu and Mint differ from anything else than Cinnamon or customized GNOME. The real difference between distros begins when the codebase is different "enough".
I'm definitely mildly techno-hexed & therefore more concerned abt update cycles/stability than the average New To Linux person, but this struck me as a really good angle on the whole "how to choose a distro" thing!
Even if you're like me & do want to know a little about what's going on under the hood, it seems smart to at least TRY looking at desktop environments first & seeing which distros are commonly used with your favorite. If nothing else it's nice to have a second approach to cross-reference w/ the "which distro"-first one.
The challenge may be in finding a resource that actually imparts useful "what's the desktop like" information to my Brain That Only Likes To Eat Wikis With Still Images On Them but at least I'm used to that problem!! Super helpful video.
Thanks for making this video, Nick. You really make an excellent point.