The really impressive part about that sky scraper bit is the fact that that window pane held the entire weight of the building. Are we sure GT glass isn't just the toughest material known to man?
There is something we forgot : Goku didn't fully understand how far the SSJ4 can go, even in the final fight he discovers hidden capacity of the SSJ4, like a Advanced regeneration, not as broken as piccolo or Majin Buu, but good enough to heal his eyes.
I love the concept behind ssj4. The great ape form was always the greatest capacity without control. Ssj 1 was control over a portion of that immense power. Ssj 2 expanded that control to add great speed. Ssj 3 took them near capacity with less control so the face changes shape and hair grows. Ssj 4 took control over the full capacity of power and condensed it so that the body resembled the out of control but strongest form. This was meant to be full circle and peak power.
@@nickk6501 I.... don't think you seem to understand super saiyan. It doesn't really resemble 'control' over the great ape form, as the form stemmed from their tails and vegeta was still in full control the one time he does it. Super Saiyan differs from great ape entirely and gives an overall boost that increases exponentially with each form whereas super saiyan 4 was supposed to be the one form that DOES incorporate the great ape aspect of the saiyans and resemble a more refined control of the great ape, much like the cannon broly we now have
On the glass cut... does no one remember that a laser pistol killed goku in Super? Or that a rock hurt Goku from Krillin tossing it at him? If Saiyans are unaware more or less, it is very possible to inflict minor damage with minimal effort. That has been shown MANY times throughout Z, GT, and Super. Even as far back as DragonBall. Goku got hurt all the time by a falling rock, then would turn around and high 5 bullets out of the air.
this is 100% accurate. or when vegeta tricked trunks into getting karate chopped unconscious with one hit. i saw the same kid take a million fists to the face couple episodes before when they train, yet being coup de grace'd whenever hes caught completely off guard wit a chop. your examples and this and others clearly imply that ki control ties into their defense instead of simply haveing inherently more body resistance of some sort. i mean, they probly really tough regardless, but not superhumanly where they cant be harmed by something mundane like a shard of glass, or bullets
SS4 just makes sense writing wise far more than any level passed it introduced It taps in from the 1st Saiyan transformation all the way till the most recent It shows a cycle of evolution as well as a plateau to Saiyan potential It’s honestly the best transformation in Dragon Ball history right after Saiyan 1 & 2 Story wise it’s great, design wise it’s great, ability wise it’s great
I was one of the very few DB fans that defended GT and frequently throughout 2006 to 2018. But after a decade and some change of debunking arguments and giving logical view points only to see that nobody changed their minds made me retire from debates in general. I'm glad the torch was passed to you Scholar. You're beyond worthy to educate this community (at least educate the ones willing to listen) and make them see GT isn't as bad as everyone exaggerates it to be.
His multipliers and explanation for things are all head canon with the only evidence being more head canon. I've debunked most of his power arguments already, including the wacky Inaccessible speed feat.
I always considered SSJ4 as the transformation that brings out the absolute peak potential of the Saiyan that uses it. Explaining why he turns back into an adult cuz that's where he's at his peak. It's the ultimate Saiyan transformation.
@@lucifermorningstar8562 Lol i used to think he was going to be canon in Dragon Ball AF when i was a kid. Oh what could have been. May Allah bless you, habibi.
It turns him back into an adult because nobody wanted goku to be a kid again and the show writers knew it by then It doesn't make any sense that the form 'knows' goku's maximum power and just puts him there regardless of the wish. There's been times when a dragon isn't powerful enough to make a wish true. I'd rather believe SS4 as a transformation leaves Goku too powerful to be rendered a child by the wish of that set of dragonballs. It just doesn't actually make any sense to me otherwise and the fact he's a kid again after the ss4 transformation literally puts me under the floor.
This is the best video on SSJ4 and GT in general that I HAVE ALWAYS been looking for for years, the fact this video came out 2 months ago after 26 years from Dragon BAll GT is beautiful. I love GT even if there are a lot of things that i hated, but thanks to youand your AMAZING work i finally understood and I changed my mind on the greater part and on some things that I had not even noticed. THANKS
My theory why the androids didn't donate infinite energy is simple. They have an infinite energy supply but they don't have an infinite energy output. Android 17 can't release an energy blast of infinite energy. So they can donate infinite energy in theory, but it would take too long for that.
Yeah that makes sense cause I feel like akira would know this and wouldn’t just make it so 17 or 18 can just make an infinite energy blast cause that would be stupid so it probably applies to his energy output. Also that’s probably why he got stronger in db cause he trained and increased his strength and energy output. And it’s probably so much easier for him to get stronger cause all he would have to do is increase his energy power and increase his strength. And he didn’t even train all the time he said he trained sometimes but he still was able to fight a super Saiyan blue goku so he probably has some crazy potential.
@@mr.knightthedetective7435 pretty sure android 17 and 18 could donate infinite energy. For an example, if they have a body that works like a battery, and that battery charges immediately, it’s safe to say that either they get more energy for every time their heart moves/ beats so it’s probably kinetic, or they get their energy from their surroundings immediately. The way we can tell that they don’t get their energy from their surroundings is because their surroundings would die near immediately with how much energy they use. So that would mean that it probably multiplies Kinect energy, and if it multiplies kinetic energy that means that they can send a infinite amount of energy, but with how much energy the spirit bomb takes every second it would probably take at least 2 seconds for the battery to constantly recharge, so if a android donates energy to goku they’re technically giving him 100% of their energy every 2 seconds. All the androids need to do in that case is increase their carrying capacity by training and they can technically give goku enough energy to kill gods like berrus with a sneeze.
I actually loved GT. I actually think SSJ4 is a WAY better form than Blue or UI. I think SSJ God can be worked into 4 (note the red hair similarity) and can be pretty cool.
@@TheRealTact True. But once Baby and the Shadow Dragons rolled up, and Super 17. Everyone was throwing hands, catching fades, and showing pure skill. And guess what. Everyone is actually relevant. Minus, Krillin, Yamcha, and Tien since they’re kinda..old now and don’t have the stamina Roshi did before. But props they’re still more relevant than in Super
Dope video. I will say, SS4 has and always will be my favorite transformation out of the DB series. Not necessarily for its power but it looks badass and it encapsulates the Saiyan awakening their Great ape potential and attaining complete control without fully transforming. I wish this was implemented somehow into the Super transformations because the different color transformations are quite dull.
its because gt isnt cannon, i personally think it did better storywise than super. It showed goku's character development etc, i think people just didnt like the silly moments like from back in dragonball
Super Saiyan 4 is probably one of the most useful transformations in th entire series as a whole, if not The Most Useful. It can handle extreme damage and still hold the form despite being drained, utilize all of the power as well as intake outside energy and use it as its own (might be wrong about this), adapt to any attack thrown at him and not be hurt by it after the first try, jeez can this form be more broken than this?
@@masterfox6832 y'all know they dropped power levels after Frieza Saga right? These numbers are as useful as random numbers punched into a calculator, they don't mean anything. Roshi even shows how little power levels mean when he went toe-to-toe with Jiren
Two feats of SS4 you forgot to mention is 1. SS4 took a direct attack to the eyes from Ice Shenron while caught off guard (which was strong enough to destroy a skyscraper right behind him) and it all it did was blind him for a while. (which he was able to naturally heal over time) 2. SS4 completely negates the black star dragonballs when goku transforms, now I don't know if SS4 Goku has magic resistance or if ss4 is so powerful it negates the blackstar dragonballs. but either way ss4 power seems to be above the blackstar dragonball effect.
@@ImNotGhostfacee 1. DB Super Goku was caught off guard and was shot with a normal gun and it left a brusie on his arm. and he also got caught off guard again and was shot with a laser gun and almost died. DB GT Goku was caught off guard and was hit in one of the most vulnerable spots on your body (his eyes) not only was it not strong enough to go through his head but it barely pierced his eyes. 2. Even though I don't know which one it 100% has to be one of theose two reasons, there's no other explanation for it.
GT Goku's ability to just easily deflect a trick already used against him makes it feel like GT is what happens right after Super and now, GT Goku is on a constant state of his own version of Ultra Instinct.
I admit, I never watched GT. But I have always respected it. I really enjoyed the additional background we get on the Saiyan race and their old adversaries, the Shadow Dragons made so much sense as a sort of destructive yang to all the yin creation the Dragon Balls have enabled, like a way of saying even those wishes are not free of negative consequences. I'm glad there are fans still around who will defend GT.
Sure the shadow dragons are cool in concept but logically they make no sense. Supposedly a wish was only supposed to be made on them once every 100 years. Kami had only been guardian of earth for 300 years and I don't think that we know how long ago he created the dragonballs. Now the namekian dragonballs grant 3 wishes instead of the earth's original 1, and they seem to be used at a more frequent rate than those on earth (since they aren't scattered around so that no one can find them). So the dragonballs on earth have been used 8 times (ignoring Super and the movies[though GT implies that they were only used 7 times since each dragon supposedly represents 1 wish]) before they built up enough negative energy to destroy the entire universe, and that was over the span of decades(imagine if someone made a wish every single year, then it would only take 8 years for universe destroying creatures to spawn from the dragonballs). Now compare that to the actual wishes made on the dragonballs. Not a single one of those wishes exceeded bringing back a large portion of earth's population back to life. They don't even include something as drastic as a complete population and destroyed planet reversal. That being the case there's absolutely no reason (other than it's a cool concept for a villain) for the dragonballs to build up so much negative energy. The negative energy build up far outweighs the positive energy release from the wishes by an astronomical amount.
@@lilchristuten7568 I see your point, but I think it makes sense. The Dragon Balls are designed to subvert the natural order of the world. Souls were never supposed to be able to die and then be wished back, not to mention all the other things wished for, usually to fulfill some kind of selfish desire. So the natural way of things is being subverted with each wish, so I'd accept that each wish has a great cost of some kind. Perhaps the execution could be tidier, but the idea meshes very well with the eastern philosophies.
Stop everything you're doing and go watch GT! The Baby and Shadow Dragons sagas are absolutely worth it! Baby Vegeta and Omega Shenron are amazing designs and boss fights.
@@daniell1483 Actually the only wish that was made to fulfill a selfish desire was the wish for king Piccolo to regain his youth, the only other wish that could be considered selfish was oolong's wish for underwear but that wish was made in haste in order to keep Pilaf from wishing for world domination(a mostly benin wish that spawned a dragon that causes devastating hurricanes), every other wish(every wish that spawned a shadow dragon) was a selfless wish made to bring people back to life.
@@lilchristuten7568 I don't think the wish itself need be evil - the wishes subvert the natural world, even with good intentions. It is the change in the natural order that gives rise to negative karma. It is straight out of Eastern philosophy that all things should be balanced and the Dragon Balls, for good or ill, subvert that balance.
I would say another reason Goku becomes an Adult as SSJ4 is because I believe the SSJ4 form gives the user their prime physic considering the Saiyan race being a warrior race and it has been explained after a point they grow fast and then slow down the process of aging. So the idea is that harnessing the Ozaru form enhances them to be able to use their prime physical body so perhaps Goku or Vegeta even when they are old and weak with the capabilities to transform to SSJ4 they would return to a form that would best fit them in a fight.
i thought everyone knew why ssj4 brings him back to adult? it's because it bypasses the wish, how has this become lost knowledge? the ssj4 transformation is genius, and it was specifically explained. the super saiyan 4 is a "limit unlocker", it makes it so you have no upper limit for how high you can go(as well as the 10x energy increase from oozaru), and the form maxes out your current potential energy level. in goku's case, his max current potential energy level brings him back to "normal goku". this is what makes the transformation so unique and so excellent as a final form, expressed in both its visual look and concept. it's also why gogeta 4 went through the roof, because there is no upper limit. no normal mortal saiyan would be able to reach anywhere close to that level of power due to their own physical limitations. dbz is a good fucking show, guys. don't forget the reasons why.
@@BlinzerOmega Saiyans don't have physical limits to how strong the CAN grow, just how strong they currently are, and how fast they grow. Tbf, neither do earthlings in the dB universe, because the human z fighters, while always a good few steps behind, haven't hit any sort of "wall." They grow slower than saiyans, but even humans naturally break past their limits given enough time/motivation.
I always thought SS4 was leagues better than Super's transformations. It actually looks and feels like an end all, be all form, as opposed to the mere recolors that is God & Blue. UI I'll give credit for, though, that one was done much better than the other 2, IMO.
I think biggest issue with super is ssb, the story is whatever but its dragon ball thats always been the case i dont watch for story i watch to see cool characters do cool shit the story is just there as a lil extra bonus. Blue comes in with no build up immediately after god and it looks worse, i get it was for more merch for the movie but still it feels like a whole arc or saga is missing in between bog and rf. God looks way better has a cooler aura especially looking at dbs broly, and it just does nothing in the anime like i legit think it doesnt accomplish anything in the entirety of the anime, it just sucks because if blue was built up to it couldve been great, the lazy hair color changes mean less to me because i think if they did more other tham just copying ssj4 it would probably look dumb.
"It actually looks and feels like an end all, be all form" Does it? What does that mean? I don't agree, honestly. I find that SSJ4 breaks conventions so much that it no longer feels like a Super Saiyan form. Heck. I'd have liked it if it was only as strong as the Super Oozaru form before going golden and being called SSJ4. Then it would be in keeping with how Super Saiyan works. At least the God Ki stuff feels... more consistent. It's a saiyan. With God Ki. It's not that complicated. Doesn't require anything too stupid to explain how he fucking changes his clothes etc. Look it's fine if you wanna say "I like SSJ4 more than SSGOD". I see nothing wrong with that. But don't give me that shit about the "be all and end all" crap. That's just useless. Heck. We see Super Saiyan power progressing by bulking up, changing aura, and hair getting longer. The only other form we really knew of that was different was another form of Super Saiyan that also bulked up but had a different ki nature and colour. Why couldn't we see something more like that? Oh wait. We did. Broly had it. Then God Ki came along and did it again. Kinda keeping the whole Saiyan and Super Saiyan aesthetic. SSJ4 is kinda cool. In that... Not-canon and kinda fun "what if" almost "fan creation" kinda way?
@@Unethical.Dodgson That's like saying brolys form is stupid because he gets bigger and completely changes... SSJ4 is personally my favorite, because it feels different and a breath of fresh air. Compared to God (goku with red hair and skinny) SSGSS (ooooo blue) UI (Goku but kinda shiny) Royal blue (mildly darker blue). Then there is ssj4, goes into a peak form, I'll give you the clothing change. The abilities are cool, for me it feels like the absolute end all for a sayain. Compared to UI its strong, but also has a toooooooon of downsides. Ssj4 is more consistent, even if the lore is kinda funky. No hate sorry if it comes out that way.
Something worth pointing out: Super Saiyan 4 is very similar in concept to Broly's transformations in DBS. Another way of thinking of Golden Oozaru is to think of it as an Oozaru that has gone Super Saiyan. Then, once the Saiyan regains their sense of self in the form, they transform into an SSJ4. This is comparable to Broly's Ikari form, which basically just allows him to tap into his Oozaru power within his base form, and then he goes Super Saiyan on top of that. This theoretically places DBS Broly's full power at roughly equal to Golden Oozaru, and his power just absolutely stomps even though Goku and Vegeta have access to SSG and Blue. Even with both of them in Blue, it's not enough for the two of them to handle him, and even Golden Freeza who's grown stronger since he first showed off the form doesn't stand a chance. It's not until Goku and Vegeta fuse into Gogeta and go Blue that they're able to overpower Broly. Broly never really does regain his sense of self during the fight. He's fighting berserk, out of control, subject to his rage. Who knows what he's capable of if he learns to apply his power skillfully rather than just recklessly and aggressively throwing his power around? That's what SSJ4 represents, that kind of raw power, but tempered into a more perfected form that is under control and can be used skillfully.
I wasn't even aware there was a "glass controversy" in GT until today. I remember Super fans pooing themselves inside out with rage when someone brought up the laser cheap shot, and yet this somehow has credibility? I have A LOT of problems with GT for its wasted potential, but even I know that the glass cut was because Goku was having a REALLY rough day. That's like when some tries telling me that Raditz could destroy the Earth. Sorry, but no Raditz is not capable of producing 2.25×10³² joules of power. Maybe in his Great Ape form... maybe.
I believe Raditz had a power level of 1200 or around there. So at 12,000, making him almost 2.5 Nappas of 5000; it is possible he could blow up the whole planet with a fully charged attack that gives....If I remember correctly a 1.25 boost in power? If not more? So it is plausable.
Umhh, good points i guess but... may i ask your age though - Consistant Fact people fans currently older than 25 are experienced enough to talk about Z and GT with solid arguments... -
@@xm_heecka.laddder.job_mx5962 you know people younger than 20 can still read and watch everything there is about dragon ball right? I think you should rephrase your statement to Only people over 25 have enough nostalgia clouding their arguments to talk about GT and Z as i want them too
@@nightdrivenen7909 power level are not linear. And the canon (minimum) power level you need to destroy a planet is 17,000. So even King Vegeta in the manga wasn't planet level. (Maybe in the anime too, the scene could have been a flash fordward of the Saiyans attacks extended on multiples days) Edit : also King Vegeta was weaker than Broly at birth. Broly you has a power level of 10,000 If I remember right. (So going by that he's not planet level at all)
Super Goku "shaking" the void dimension is suppose to be a feat of strenght and power, but GT Goku destroying entire dimension is considered a... feat of luck? Super fanboys be wilding...
That’s actually an amazing point. I never considered the fact that he literally pushes the entire building up by one glass window. How TF did a sheet of glass support the entire sky scraper???
With just his fingers btw, if you watch the clip you can see that his fingers alone are holding the entire building. They're pressed on the glass and his palms arent
@@mr.knightthedetective7435 Yep. Really filling in all of the holes so the show doesn't have to. Like watching a movie where a guy gets shot in the head and is fine in the next scene. You: "He must have a twin! Or he absorbed the bullet into his brain! Or perhaps... just maybe... The writers were fucking stupid!"
Super Saiyan 4 is my favorite form in the whole series. Everything about it and everytime I see it come on screen, I sit up and am literally on the edge of my seat, hyped. Super Saiyan Blue doesn't do that to me (except in Dbs Broly), it always just made me say "Cool" and that's it.
@@TakeshiInazuma Ssj4 as a form has won most of the fights it was in (excluding Super 17 and Omega Shenron). Ssj Blue hasn't ever really won every fight except in the Resurrection 'F' arc and Evolution Blue Vegeta beating Toppo.
@@JoeGuyWhosThere Honestly I think the Old Style Animation really suits SSJ4. It has the rougher more toned appearance, matching the more menacing and rough tone of SSJ4. Meanwhile God and Blue are "Softer" looking forms meaning Super's softer and more modern artstyle better suits it.
I think Jiren could hold back the Universal GT spirit bomb, because Kid Buu resisted a weak Goku, so therefore, Jiren would overpower Goku. The spirit bomb is needs to be pushed to be Effective, so if it never touches him then that's it, he wins, he pushes it away and that's it.
Also, Jiren isn't exactly evil, people with some virtue can deflect it, if that wasn't retconned at all. He may be selfish, but he does fight to defend his universe.
It's funny how people just tend to forget that theatrics plays a big part of an anime. It adds excitement and drama, and that's exactly what that skyscraper scene was.
I like to imagine that each person feeds the Spirit Bomb through a funnel. You *can* have one Android give enough energy to eventually get there, but one being can only give so much at a time, so having more people would also build it up a lot faster
Also, with the lifting the skyscraper scene, he would have gone to ssj 4 for improved energy manipulation/ control. It's shown when goku tries to use instant transmission while in his base state that due to his reduced size, he can't control his energy properly, but he could in ssj 4. So for ease of control ssj 4 just makes sense
My theory is that he was immortal, given by Shenron until the dragon balls were returned to their original state. Shenron, instead of scattering and petrifying the spheres, choose to fuse with Goku and them both, slumbering until said objects were restored. Then, 100 years later, with the task done, he soon awakens and finds himself in the opening of a new World Tournament. With Shenron fine and no evil threathening anyone or anything, he enjoys watching all of it, but thinks the current generations know no hardship or are too immersed in their daily lives. Goku entertains the idea of seeing Pan, and of course, she almost dies of a heart attack with the surprise. Pan says both his and Vegeta's lineage continued on healthy and strong, but besides the occasional deranged individual or terrorist group, nothing threatened the planet. Goku, now knowing no one besides her and having no sparring partners or rivals, seeks new strength. Stuck on Earth like this would do no good. Pan, knowing how pure blood saiyans are, and after a couple of lengthy conversations with everyone in Capsule Corp., Goku stayed there a few days. Checking the strength of his and Vegeta's descendants, he sees potential in all of them, and he feels relieved. Needless to say, he soon convinces Pan and Bulma to lend him a space pod, eagerly wanting to adventure in space again, seeking strong opponents, potential rivals, and maybe save some people of their tyrants; reminding Pan of their adventures together. Before leaving, if the state of things got too bad, he told them to gather a few capable of turning Super Saiyan in one spot, and raise their power to the max a few minutes, in case he had to instant transmision back after leaving a ki sphere behind. With no worries left and a tearful but happy looking Pan, Goku leaves excited for new possibilities... wondering who will be the next to witness Super Saiyan 4.
And now to other worlds Goku is Just this immortal deity with multiversal power more powerfull than zeno(he resited a ERASURE attack) who apears from time to time and help people
Say what u want about GT, but I miss Goku's mature mentality as opposed to supers juvenile one The struggles, the stakes involved and actual emotions felt during the series in underappreciated
They literally wish him to be a child at the start of the series he's child brained in super and outright actually a child in GT, I don't think he's more mature especially if you try rewatching GT with this topic in mind
@@TecTitan and that's the point, he is only childish and dumb when he's in child form, but ssj4 he is back to a level headed adult Now compare that to Goku in super
Personally I think part of the reason why he transformed into a Super Saiyan 4 to catch the building is because having an insane amount of energy or not Goku's body is physically weaker than it would be if it was an adult his body just might not be able to handle the amount of energy would require to lift up and push a building like that. Remember being strong in Dragon Ball requires three types of energy and one of those types of energy at least has to do with the physical strength of your body. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day if you have that massive amount of energy if your body can't handle it that's actually what the Kaio Ken is all about Goku raising his power to such a degree that his body can't handle that gigantic amount of power anymore and it starts having a backlash effect. When Goku became a child his body physically got weaker the amount of energy that he had didn't change but his body did physically get weaker making him unable to sustain powerful Transformations like Super Saiyan 3 a transformation that even on adult Goku puts a great deal of strain on him.
@@nigelholland1714 I honestly don't think so. Super Saiyan 3 is the only transformation that drains your time on earth when you come back for a day when you're dead. I theorize the reason why this is is because this transformation drains your life force something that isn't really seen with any other transformation. If this is true this means it can't really be mastered because you only have so much life force
@@Jon-jt9fy I really don't think that's it otherwise why would that be the only form in the entire series to drain your time when you're coming back to the living world for a day? No other form crates the type of fatigue that Goku experiences with that form Goku passes out multiple times in his fight with Kid Buu because of the fatigue that Super Saiyan 3 creates.
I feel like the reason Goku stayed in SSJ4 instead of detransforming is because it’s not really an ascension in the SSJ line but rather a new state of Ozaruu combined with SSJ as he has his primal battle instincts (as seen against ice Shenron) and raw power (that you specifically said) of his Oozaruu but in a more controlled form resembling that of SSJ I mean, look back on the transformation, Goku goes primal before calming himself down and seemingly taking control once he can fully control SSJ in his primal state. SSJ God sorta resembles the same thing in how it’s not a direct upgrade in line of SSJ but rather an advanced method through the ‘dose’ of god ki, allowing Goku to further expand his control to further heights and this ki seemingly changes his power, causing whacky hair colours.
Ill never forget being a Kid watching DB GT and talking about it in school back in Brazil, the rumors that Pan had a Kid that could become SSJ5 lol, those were the times
I love gt i grew up watching it unlike super gt isnt afraid to try new interesting things gt has amazing music i loooooooooove gt. I will live and die by gt . Im with gt all day everyday
Yes exactly saiyan scholar, GT goku transformed so the skyscraper wouldn't collapse in two, by using a physics equation P=F/A pressure is force divided by area, him being so small while pushing it would make the skyscraper more vulnerable.... For example push on your knee as hard as you can with your hand it won't go through.. Push 1/6 as hard with a needle it will go through.(Btw I don't recommend anyone doing this just explaining) This is because the pressure is multiplied by dividing the force by such a small area.
SSj4 is amazing, I love it. My thoughts to this (no numbers or anything) are: SSJ4 seems like a more natural, non KI Based Transformation. It's the raw essence and Power of the Golden Great Ape Form combined with Goku's and/or Vegeta's Mind. That's why I think he can technically kind of "tap into the SSJ4" and hold it, since it's not requiring KI to transform. Super Saiyan 1-3 are all KI Based transformations, hence the KI drain, SSJG use God KI to Transform, and so does SSJB. Now the healing thing confused me a little here. Comparing GT Trunks and Future Trunks is a bit weird, bcs obviously Future Trunks is stronger and has more KI, almost reaching God-KI Level, which is a higher KI Form. That's why he could heal 1 SSJB and GT Trunks couldn't heal Goku alone. Kibitokai/Kibitoshin, idk u know who I mean cannot channel the raw energy of Saiyans, which is needed to heal SSJ4, that's why he had to heal the other Saiyans. It's not always about the mass of KI a character has, rather Kibitokai/Kibitoshin kann heal KI Based things and Physical stuff, but not the SSJ4 essence, since he's no Saiyan. If you want to compare SSJ4 and SSJB, I'd say SSJ4 and Full Power Blue Vegeta are about equal in raw Power. SSJ4 Full Power would be more like idk Vegito Blue? The reason I'm not saying Gogeta Blue is bcs Gogeta immediately enters Full Power Blue when he transforms and Vegito goes base Blue. Gogeta Blue overpowers FP Broly and I highly doubt SSJ4 can compete with FP Broly from Super. Omega Shenron would be an equivalent to FP Broly I guess, maybe even a little bit weaker since Omega Shenron has no chance against Gogeta SSJ4, but Broly still put up a fight against Gogeta Blue. Oh just when I was writing up to this point, I thought about something. Gogeta SSJ4 supports my assumptions actually. Do you remember the rulings to fusion? Base Form holds up to 30 min., SSJ 10 mins. and SSJ3 5 min. SSJ4 Gogeta holds 10 mins., so the KI-Consumption to remain the Fusion State is about the same as SSJ, which shows that SSJ4 can't be a KI-Based Form. Yeah that's all I have to say about this.
Dude I swear to god you might be the most based Dragonball RUclipsr I’ve seen sometimes I feel like the only one with some opinions like Z Broly being awesome GT being better than Super and Faulconer making Dragonball badass. But then I found that you shared many opinions that I have and make the arguments that convince me further to keep these opinions.
Ssj4 will forever be my favorite transformation and gogeta ssj4 was everything in budokai 3, never will understand the hate or the "boring" comments, it was well done in many ways and had it short comings at some point like all things but I don't remember any cons lmao
ive seen a ssj4 vs super saiyan blue video that sums it up pretty well i think, while blue or god form is leagues above 4 in power level, the ki drain is so immense compared to 4's ki control that ssj4 could keep up until blue has no stamina
It's stated as the opposite in the various shows. 4 is primal and raw and hard to control where Blue is literally perfect control, hence why he can now combine a super saiyan form with kaio ken.
@@MarkoArillius super saiyan 4 is the perfect heritage to the power of the saiyans and the tail helps with ki control, super saiyan blue also takes extreme focus to maintain the form, not the ki it consumes
@@MarkoArillius it’s been stated but it actually hasn’t been shown, well at the very least manga blue. Manga blue has been shown to be way harder to control than 4 as they can’t stay in perfected blue for long, while we see gown natural and little effort goku is in ssj4, likes it’s just his base form.
Interesting video, but the part about the adaptability of the Super saiyan 4 for me is a bit tricky. The super saiyan 4 is able to adapt to any attack and it can't work the second time, but after that you show that's an inerhent ability of Goku, because he stated it again in his base form against Cell and Frieza in Hell. I'am thinking, one of the best common abilities of the saiyans is the zenkai and maybe it's not only a power boost but give to them adaptability, saiyans can even react and adapt to the attacks that previously live them to the brink of death. Since in GT the super saiyan 4 is considered the essence and the maximum expression of the saiyans, maybe it can enhance the zenkai ability too. (Sorry but english isn't my native language)
Yeah you know they kinda got rid of the whole Zenkai boost thing after the Frieza arc though... right? Because 1. Toriyama forgets things and 2. It was getting to be a bitch to keep track of. So it really only played a part when the saiyans were weaker. Up until power levels ranging in the lower millions. After that... it didn't seem to be a thing anymore. (Why do you think Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks didn't get ANY stronger at all after getting their asses kicked in the cell arc? Answer: Because Toriyama both forgot and discarded Zenkai boosts. Done. Additional: Future Gohan fought the Androids and lost numerous times. Guy should have been fucking unstoppable.)
I kinda stopped paying attention to lifting feats when 10x gravity brought goku to his knees, when as a kid, he held a car over his head. As goku weights l36 lbs (62kg) 10x is 1360 lbs, A mid sized sedan is 3351 lbs More than twice as heavy. As a child.
@@JoeGuyWhosThere I'm pretty sure how strong you are doesn't equal how heavy you are. If that were the case then all of the saiyans would look like massive Greek gods, or like jirens everywhere
So with the building push you need to remember that the weight of the building is on that window, glass is a string but if it was just supported by his hands even steel would buckle and break. This means he has to be extending his Ki over the surface of the building and pushing against his own ki. All the Ki used to support the building can not be used to support his body or muscles.
I think another thing people have to take into consideration regarding lifting a building is Goku pushing too hard, and he'd just slide through. Would've been better if Goku displayed using ki, to spread it evenly across the building. Again, so he wouldn't break through the glass, and the rest of the building
"Goku pushing too hard, and he'd just slide through. " That's... literally not how physics works. At all. Goku pushing too hard? The building weighs several thousands of tons. Doesn't matter how hard he's pushing. If he's there at all. He's going through it. Also when you make up reasons and excuses for scenes that never provide any info themselves... You're not fixing the scene. You're making yourself look gullible.
2:32 Goku was in a relaxed state. When he was hit by the rock, he was sleeping. That's the point of the training. When he was scratched by a bullet, he hasn't trained for long. Even then, it's still a speeding bullet, a glass is nothing compared to it. When he was pierced by a laser, he returned to his base form (anime). Goku in a serious, defensive form should not be able to be scratched by a mere glass in any way. He had to go back to his normal form before that could happen as that signifies his weakened state. Goku being able to maintain SSJ4 while being that vulnerable is not logical, and is in fact a plot hole. They make mistakes, and if they got the chance to fix it, they would like when they noticed how Goku was hurt by a normal laser in his SSB form.
@@cloudstrife8218 Yeah. Surprised not one top comment pointed that out. I couldn't bear to finish the video when I noticed this flaw. He sounds like a GT fanboy indeed.
I know this is old but this a awful point all it proves is that anyone caught off guard in super and d can take major injuries Meanwhile gt goku has the shit beat out of him and still stays in form even to the point of glass hurting it If you ask me that’s WAY more impressive then goku getting hurt by a rock in super sayian or goku almost dying to a laser in ssb
Great video as always, sir. So here is an idea I have been considering, and I am sure you would agree. Majin Buu was in the wrong arc. He should have been waaaaaaaay down the line, and should be just now, in Super or GT, showing up. He's been there since time began, or shortly there after. He should have been a far graver threat than he was. I think he should have been THE goal for Goku and friends before they were even allowed to venture into God Ki
Buu was supposed to have been the final threat for the main cast to fight, hence why they time skipped to end of Z and clearly showed that the story would be passed on to the younger ones after that. Then they decided against that for GT and will probably be retconned in super to push it further along as bulla is four in it leaving broly, super hero and the manga continuation stories to take place in those four years.
Love this channel and all the information you give. That last line though, was one of the greatest things I've ever heard. "Do not let your hatred make you stupid." That's needs to be on a shirt 😆
I always looked at GT as a alternative universe. I still believe its a good show but I like to think there are multiple universe because of Trunks time jump. I loved the return of their tails.
I love this video; Hopefully people will stop Hating GT for no real reason at all... I've never understood why people always downgraded the Power of Super Saiyan Four, because in my opinion, Super Saiyan 4 is better than Blue...
Do you think people hate GT because SSJ4 is weaker than SSJ God? This has nothing to do with power levels. DB Fans only think about Power levels instead of proper writing.
@@chabbab6698 Dragon Ball GT has plenty of good writing in its own right, Super Saiyan 4 is the pinnacle of the Primal Saiyan race, and it shows that even without a God Ritual, the Saiyan race can achieve the impossible...
@@jaxsonfanta5420 Honestly, I grew up with Z, and GT but I'd be lying if I said I hated Super at first, I like many was so desperate for a new Dragon Ball show, I was willing to accept just about anything, and actually enjoyed it... It was only upon taking a second look that I realized just how bad the show actually was... At every turn, Super is a mockery of What it's predecessors were... Even GT, while I admit wasn't the best show ever, had some really good story writing and impactful emotions shared with Z... But Super was just so... SUPERFICIAL... Everything about it is so far away from the emotions, The Trust, the Pains, and the Joys, that we felt with the Z Fighters throughout their Journey... It just, sucks... 😞
Honestly, my biggest gripe with GT was never any of the feats, or the transformation scaling nonsense, it was that GT was boring. Dragon Ball never had the BEST story telling in anime, and I'm not going to pretend that Super is far and away superior in that front, cause it definitely isn't. But, to me, Super at least is enjoyable to watch, whereas GT was not. The pacing felt painfully slow, the dialogue uninteresting, the characterization mediocre, a whole mess of factors that overshadowed anything good that came from GT. Don't get me wrong though, GT DID have some good moments, both action and comedy wise, such as the Shadow Dragon Saga for action, and the Vegeta mustache bit for comedy. Beyond those examples of specific things though, I can't actively think of anything from GT I liked that much. This even extends into Super Saiyan 4. I just plain don't like the form. I think the added fur on the body looks bad, and that it adds nothing positive to the look. To me, it always just looked like edgy furry Goku. This isn't to say that the transformations in Super are home runs either. SSG was a pretty fun transformation in my book, keeping a similar concept to the original Super Saiyan, but mostly going for a sleeker design while keeping the form as almost a base level for the newly introduced God Ki rather than another form of Super Saiyan. SSGSS (or SSB) was a critical failure though. Design wise it's super lazy, only being Super Saiyan but blue, and there was no adequate reasoning as to why and how the form was reached. They at least had the intelligence to show WHY and HOW SSJ4 was obtained in GT, but nope, not in Resurrection of F. Super gave a small hint to the form before showing it off, but even that was extremely and critically lackluster. Ultra Instinct, while an amazing idea, was wasted as a transformation. It should have simply remained a technique, something to be used, not turned into. That said, the form is nice looking, and again, I really love the concept. I'm a major Dragon Ball fan, even with my actively distaste for GT, I respect any person who takes the time to enjoy something despite the criticisms, so long as they are aware of why something is criticized. I am far from a Super fanboy, but I do enjoy my time with Super, far more than I did with GT, but to anyone trying to downplay GT to boost up Super, remember that comparing to the worst thing something has in it's arsenal does not make you superior, and you risk having your flaws thrown out and making yourself look worse.
"Once I'm hit with a technique, it doesn't work again!" So if Goku is hit with a genjutsu from Itachi Uchiha, Goku's brain would've found a way to negate it the next time?
@@kxng4525 everyone possess small amounts of chakra. Everyone minus the ones Naruto/Sasuke protected were in the infinite tsukuyomi. And its also stated that everyone has chakra later on during Kaguya's past storyline Shit might have been a retcon of what Jiraiya said but can't ignore it.
I think the main reason people don't understand and downplay GT characters is because the show makes things seem more grounded and they don't really show the power growth they just become freakishly strong from the fights. GT characters are OP. Baby saga Goku in base before getting ssj4, he dominates ssjblue Goku and Vegeta from the frieza arc. GT Gohan was close to GT Goku's power in the first saga and then in the baby saga takes on baby boosted ssj Gohan and Goten with ease in base
@@lilchristuten7568 well duh that'd be next level stupidity but just watching this video gives you all you need but rewatch the shows cause me to truly explain how I figured it out it'll be several paragraphs cause I'd have to give you the all the scalingings that make the most sense being based off of z Goku and and explain why for each one. But real quick at the start of the first saga in GT he's about Kid Buu levelish in base super isn't btw at the beginning of the show not even close. By the end of the saga GT Goku in his base he is around Super Vegito from Z in base and if you need proof, it's all in the first saga with Goku's statements and fights and this is easily his smallest increase in power by a hell of a lot during GT. Again man I'm not gonna sit here and explain everything out but there's a really quick example of the freakish increases in base power in GT. DBS power increase do obviously happen but a lot of it is from Zenkais and transformations which in GT heavily on base plus adds transformations later
@@lilchristuten7568 and he goes from that which Gohan was pretty even with Goku to getting embarrassed by Goku when not only is he a ssj but he's boosted by baby's power and Goten as well fighting him at the same time. All before getting his tail back and ssj4 and Zenkais. It's not close at the start of the shows but DBS Goku in the 2nd half of DBS💪😬
@@hunterwise5156 Even if GT goku is super Vegito level in his base by the end of the first saga (I seriously doubt that he is), super vegito still isn't as powerful as base goku after the BoG saga.
I've never understood the hate towards DB GT. I love all of them from DBZ, DBGT and DB Super, and SS4 has always been my all time favourite form and have been desperately hoping to see it on Super... I would also love to see the Saiyan tails brought back as well as the Oozaru form.
@@johnlucas2838 Yes and no Its up to the writers decision and direction of the story whether the main character is the center focus of the story in contrast to the side characters which wouldnt have a major contribution to the progression. As someone who reads mangas, manhwas and manhuas often, side characters only just add a break to the viewers pov while having a small change/impact within the story. Whether u want the main character to be the pivotal or not is purely based on preference as ur just the viewer, if u hate it, dont watch it, dont feed ppl ur own bias towards it smh.
I’m glad to know someone actually knows how powerful SS4 Goku this show deserves way more love than it gets because there is a lot of good people ignore just because haha show looks bad.
I dig the effort in arguments... But why do ppl in the db community love using units to explain the strength of characters...? Like... Neither Akira Toriyama nor GT's author, even take these scalings to consideratiom, thats why power scalings always remained inconsistent in the series; I'm sure there're more direct ways of explaining something as simple as this... Also people who fail to consider scene impact and description (i.e. the glass demonstration) are either inexperienced in comprehending simple context or are too slow understand.
@@TakeshiInazuma Jiren is not multiversal+ lol. he's high levels of multiversal but not multiversal+ Multiversal+ means destroying infinite amount of universes at a time and no one has done that both GT and Super are in the high levels of multiversal
Did-did you not just watch the video? Like, in all seriousness, the video JUST explained how it was multiversal+. GT Goku broke a DIMENSION with nothing but a small Kamehameha in base form. This wasn't even a quarter through the video. Think, brother, think
Indeed ssj4 as much powerful than we thought I hate when people try to downplay on ssj4 being vegito or gogeta level it’s BS because gt goku and other GT characters are much powerful than we Thought it’s sad really
Gt characters have feats that make them universal around so. I don't know who the hell scales them to either vegito or gogeta because that's either hella low scaled or ridiculously high scaled.
Good sir saiyan scholar i applaud you! so many things i didn't think about and many that i have built my arguments on and while im still only half way through the video i gotta know, do you think super Saiyan 4 makes more sense on an evolutionary side of things? Like my feelings is that for a warrior race that transforms into a great ape the body fur and darkened eye rings make sense its a symbol of them and their beast sides becoming one and making the full moon thing null and void because both genetically and spiritually they are becoming more stable allowing for higher feats of strength.
I always assumed they used ki/chi to protect themselves from cuts and bruises and that those barriers could only be broken by another fighter. So SSJ4 Goku and bullet damaged Goku didn’t have enough ki to probably themselves from though minor injuries.
Um 28:45. Yeah power has a direct influence on how much you can heal someone at least going of elder kais stament. Your argument with dende implies that dende and kibito kai used the same form of healing, as well as your comparision between kibito kai and trunks requiring that the skill is apparently super hard which is never stated or implied. Trunks in super is far stornger than the gt zfighters who were needed to restore goku. Also you kinda debunk your own point here earlier because you pointed out the z fighters only need to restore base goku to full strenth. So assuming trunks only needs to restore base goku or base vegeta to full strenth using a much more effetive healing teqniuqe than wouldnt that make comparing 2 ways of power transfer irrelevant. Because your either saying trunks only had to restore base goku or vegeta which considering his base form was already in the realm of there's would not be a hard task or your saying that blue requires so much more energy that trunks had to go past their blue forms in power. Nevermind both are different continuities meaning gt doesn't necessarily follow the rules of z and the rules for healing could be comeptly different from both versions.
I think the budokai tenkaichi series explained the Android energy the best. They can't charge up their ki but they constantly generate ki without action. As for why they couldn't channel all their energy constantly, I think we have to assume their ki capacitor discharges with some kind of limitation in rate. So it's possible that the kind of enormous flush of energy needed for big attacks is something they can't do. By this reasoning they shouldn't be able to do any genki attacks like kikoho or heavy contribution to the spirit bomb, nor depleting ki attacks like the final flash. I'm not sure but I don't recall 17 or 18 doing any energy attacks that deplete their store of energy at once.
I think he was struggling to hold the building up, But like you said without breaking anything. It could be easily explained that you enveloped the entire building in ki and was using his strength to do that while he slowly placed the building back in place. Or just made a flat keybarrier to put equal pressure across the building across the building and was terrified of killing everyone. These are the same entities that can tap planet and blow it in half.
Wow thank you for this video ! I wish you woulda talked about how ss4 gogeta was pulling off the UI goku and Jiren before they even existed because ppl act like that never happened 😭
Развлечения
The really impressive part about that sky scraper bit is the fact that that window pane held the entire weight of the building. Are we sure GT glass isn't just the toughest material known to man?
GT Glass is the strongest material in all DB Lore!
Who needs saiyans or tuffles, we clearly need GT Glass vs Katchin now that would be a fight id love to see
Lmao
kaaaaaameeeeeeeehaaaaaaaameeeeeeeHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
@@zanebailey7474 that seems a little one sided doesn’t it? I mean, the glass injured GT Goku and we’ve never seen katchin cut goku
There is something we forgot : Goku didn't fully understand how far the SSJ4 can go, even in the final fight he discovers hidden capacity of the SSJ4, like a Advanced regeneration, not as broken as piccolo or Majin Buu, but good enough to heal his eyes.
Fax he was still finding shit that he didn’t even know about. Like him being able to deflect any attack without even thinking.
@@Sammy123ABC I've always said that MUI was created in GT
I love the concept behind ssj4. The great ape form was always the greatest capacity without control. Ssj 1 was control over a portion of that immense power. Ssj 2 expanded that control to add great speed. Ssj 3 took them near capacity with less control so the face changes shape and hair grows. Ssj 4 took control over the full capacity of power and condensed it so that the body resembled the out of control but strongest form. This was meant to be full circle and peak power.
@@nickk6501 I.... don't think you seem to understand super saiyan. It doesn't really resemble 'control' over the great ape form, as the form stemmed from their tails and vegeta was still in full control the one time he does it. Super Saiyan differs from great ape entirely and gives an overall boost that increases exponentially with each form whereas super saiyan 4 was supposed to be the one form that DOES incorporate the great ape aspect of the saiyans and resemble a more refined control of the great ape, much like the cannon broly we now have
The best part of GT was how it and then dragon ball evolution embarrassed Toriyama out of retirement.
On the glass cut... does no one remember that a laser pistol killed goku in Super? Or that a rock hurt Goku from Krillin tossing it at him? If Saiyans are unaware more or less, it is very possible to inflict minor damage with minimal effort. That has been shown MANY times throughout Z, GT, and Super. Even as far back as DragonBall. Goku got hurt all the time by a falling rock, then would turn around and high 5 bullets out of the air.
was about to comment this. thank you
For the record the laser never killed him...
this is 100% accurate. or when vegeta tricked trunks into getting karate chopped unconscious with one hit. i saw the same kid take a million fists to the face couple episodes before when they train, yet being coup de grace'd whenever hes caught completely off guard wit a chop. your examples and this and others clearly imply that ki control ties into their defense instead of simply haveing inherently more body resistance of some sort. i mean, they probly really tough regardless, but not superhumanly where they cant be harmed by something mundane like a shard of glass, or bullets
I like the parts in super where goku is falling out the time machine and hurting himself.
@@DemoDapharaoh well almost, I’m pretty sure without senzu beans he may have died
SS4 just makes sense writing wise far more than any level passed it introduced
It taps in from the 1st Saiyan transformation all the way till the most recent
It shows a cycle of evolution as well as a plateau to Saiyan potential
It’s honestly the best transformation in Dragon Ball history right after Saiyan 1 & 2
Story wise it’s great, design wise it’s great, ability wise it’s great
There's a reason why they keep bringing it back for promotional uses, they know that the design for that form really hit the jackpot.
No it’s not
@@hamishmcculloch8735 11 months ago and 0 likes? there is nothing to fix here
I was one of the very few DB fans that defended GT and frequently throughout 2006 to 2018. But after a decade and some change of debunking arguments and giving logical view points only to see that nobody changed their minds made me retire from debates in general. I'm glad the torch was passed to you Scholar. You're beyond worthy to educate this community (at least educate the ones willing to listen) and make them see GT isn't as bad as everyone exaggerates it to be.
His multipliers and explanation for things are all head canon with the only evidence being more head canon. I've debunked most of his power arguments already, including the wacky Inaccessible speed feat.
@@atomicwizard7334 Huh. Can't tell what's bigger, the Universal Spirit Bomb or your ego.
@@captainscurse8619 Well we sure know it isn't your originality 👌
@@atomicwizard7334 I’m sure you’re fun to be around
@@serotonin6404 Depends if you want honest criticism and debate or someone to kiss your a**. Personally I find the latter boring. 🤷♂️
I always considered SSJ4 as the transformation that brings out the absolute peak potential of the Saiyan that uses it. Explaining why he turns back into an adult cuz that's where he's at his peak. It's the ultimate Saiyan transformation.
Super Saiyan Primal
You clearly have never heard of SSJ5
@@sub7se7en I have but it's fan made.
@@lucifermorningstar8562 Lol i used to think he was going to be canon in Dragon Ball AF when i was a kid. Oh what could have been. May Allah bless you, habibi.
It turns him back into an adult because nobody wanted goku to be a kid again and the show writers knew it by then
It doesn't make any sense that the form 'knows' goku's maximum power and just puts him there regardless of the wish. There's been times when a dragon isn't powerful enough to make a wish true. I'd rather believe SS4 as a transformation leaves Goku too powerful to be rendered a child by the wish of that set of dragonballs. It just doesn't actually make any sense to me otherwise and the fact he's a kid again after the ss4 transformation literally puts me under the floor.
I enjoy when fans go this literal in front of Toriyama and Toriyama is always like "Yeah. Sure. Whatever"
Toriyama didn't conceive or write GT, so he has no authority on the matter.
@@nil148 Yet he still gets stuff asked about it.
@@smvml89 Fr bro atleast know the people who made the show.
This is the best video on SSJ4 and GT in general that I HAVE ALWAYS been looking for for years, the fact this video came out 2 months ago after 26 years from Dragon BAll GT is beautiful. I love GT even if there are a lot of things that i hated, but thanks to youand your AMAZING work i finally understood and I changed my mind on the greater part and on some things that I had not even noticed. THANKS
My theory why the androids didn't donate infinite energy is simple. They have an infinite energy supply but they don't have an infinite energy output. Android 17 can't release an energy blast of infinite energy. So they can donate infinite energy in theory, but it would take too long for that.
Yeah that makes sense cause I feel like akira would know this and wouldn’t just make it so 17 or 18 can just make an infinite energy blast cause that would be stupid so it probably applies to his energy output. Also that’s probably why he got stronger in db cause he trained and increased his strength and energy output. And it’s probably so much easier for him to get stronger cause all he would have to do is increase his energy power and increase his strength. And he didn’t even train all the time he said he trained sometimes but he still was able to fight a super Saiyan blue goku so he probably has some crazy potential.
Cause the spirit bomb runs on life energy not standard ki
It's literally impossible to donate Infinite energy, the Universe would die to Big Crunch before Android 17 could finish donating lol
Yeah, an unlimited pool to draw from, with a bottleneck on draw speed.
@@mr.knightthedetective7435 pretty sure android 17 and 18 could donate infinite energy. For an example, if they have a body that works like a battery, and that battery charges immediately, it’s safe to say that either they get more energy for every time their heart moves/ beats so it’s probably kinetic, or they get their energy from their surroundings immediately. The way we can tell that they don’t get their energy from their surroundings is because their surroundings would die near immediately with how much energy they use. So that would mean that it probably multiplies Kinect energy, and if it multiplies kinetic energy that means that they can send a infinite amount of energy, but with how much energy the spirit bomb takes every second it would probably take at least 2 seconds for the battery to constantly recharge, so if a android donates energy to goku they’re technically giving him 100% of their energy every 2 seconds. All the androids need to do in that case is increase their carrying capacity by training and they can technically give goku enough energy to kill gods like berrus with a sneeze.
I actually loved GT. I actually think SSJ4 is a WAY better form than Blue or UI. I think SSJ God can be worked into 4 (note the red hair similarity) and can be pretty cool.
It is way more original though
@@xm_heecka.laddder.job_mx5962 Exactly, and it wasn’t power wanking bullshit
@@yaboigamerdouji7573 Super Full Power SSJ4 and Super Full Power SSJ4 Limit Breaker look so similar people forget they exist
The first few episodes are kind of boring tho
@@TheRealTact True. But once Baby and the Shadow Dragons rolled up, and Super 17. Everyone was throwing hands, catching fades, and showing pure skill. And guess what. Everyone is actually relevant. Minus, Krillin, Yamcha, and Tien since they’re kinda..old now and don’t have the stamina Roshi did before. But props they’re still more relevant than in Super
Dope video. I will say, SS4 has and always will be my favorite transformation out of the DB series. Not necessarily for its power but it looks badass and it encapsulates the Saiyan awakening their Great ape potential and attaining complete control without fully transforming. I wish this was implemented somehow into the Super transformations because the different color transformations are quite dull.
I never really understood the hate for GT compared to the love for Super. I always enjoyed watching GT.
It has some pretty dumb moments.
The number one that has stuck with me all these years is when Goku has the 4-star ball appear on his forehead.
@@saltywater5097 that was because he swallowed it
its because gt isnt cannon, i personally think it did better storywise than super. It showed goku's character development etc, i think people just didnt like the silly moments like from back in dragonball
Super Saiyan 4 is probably one of the most useful transformations in th entire series as a whole, if not The Most Useful.
It can handle extreme damage and still hold the form despite being drained, utilize all of the power as well as intake outside energy and use it as its own (might be wrong about this), adapt to any attack thrown at him and not be hurt by it after the first try, jeez can this form be more broken than this?
SS4 Practically doesnt even drain. Its the final form of the physiology of a saiyan.
SSJ4 gets oneshotted by one punch from SSJ GOD.
@@chabbab6698 lol no you clueless ssj4 is more than 100 times stronger than ssjg
@@TakeshiInazuma SSJG-60Mxbase
SSJ4-1.6Bxbase
FPSSJ4-7Bxbase
UFPSSJ4-200B+×base
@@masterfox6832 y'all know they dropped power levels after Frieza Saga right? These numbers are as useful as random numbers punched into a calculator, they don't mean anything. Roshi even shows how little power levels mean when he went toe-to-toe with Jiren
Two feats of SS4 you forgot to mention is
1. SS4 took a direct attack to the eyes from Ice Shenron while caught off guard (which was strong enough to destroy a skyscraper right behind him) and it all it did was blind him for a while. (which he was able to naturally heal over time)
2. SS4 completely negates the black star dragonballs when goku transforms, now I don't know if SS4 Goku has magic resistance or if ss4 is so powerful it negates the blackstar dragonballs. but either way ss4 power seems to be above the blackstar dragonball effect.
I loved that scene in gt. Even being blinded he used his senses and ki sensing to finish the battle
I think that ssj4 makes the user be in his prime, for example Vegeta, he became younger while using it
1. destroy the skyscraper behind him? that's worth literal nothing
2. Well you just said you don't know so why bring it up?
@@ImNotGhostfacee 1. DB Super Goku was caught off guard and was shot with a normal gun and it left a brusie on his arm. and he also got caught off guard again and was shot with a laser gun and almost died. DB GT Goku was caught off guard and was hit in one of the most vulnerable spots on your body (his eyes) not only was it not strong enough to go through his head but it barely pierced his eyes.
2. Even though I don't know which one it 100% has to be one of theose two reasons, there's no other explanation for it.
@@R1kual 1. GT Goku got cut by GLASS,
2. We don't know if he "overpowered" it so it might not be relavant
GT Goku's ability to just easily deflect a trick already used against him makes it feel like GT is what happens right after Super and now, GT Goku is on a constant state of his own version of Ultra Instinct.
the only people i know that hate on GT, are the ones that never watched it
I admit, I never watched GT. But I have always respected it. I really enjoyed the additional background we get on the Saiyan race and their old adversaries, the Shadow Dragons made so much sense as a sort of destructive yang to all the yin creation the Dragon Balls have enabled, like a way of saying even those wishes are not free of negative consequences. I'm glad there are fans still around who will defend GT.
Sure the shadow dragons are cool in concept but logically they make no sense.
Supposedly a wish was only supposed to be made on them once every 100 years. Kami had only been guardian of earth for 300 years and I don't think that we know how long ago he created the dragonballs.
Now the namekian dragonballs grant 3 wishes instead of the earth's original 1, and they seem to be used at a more frequent rate than those on earth (since they aren't scattered around so that no one can find them).
So the dragonballs on earth have been used 8 times (ignoring Super and the movies[though GT implies that they were only used 7 times since each dragon supposedly represents 1 wish]) before they built up enough negative energy to destroy the entire universe, and that was over the span of decades(imagine if someone made a wish every single year, then it would only take 8 years for universe destroying creatures to spawn from the dragonballs).
Now compare that to the actual wishes made on the dragonballs. Not a single one of those wishes exceeded bringing back a large portion of earth's population back to life. They don't even include something as drastic as a complete population and destroyed planet reversal.
That being the case there's absolutely no reason (other than it's a cool concept for a villain) for the dragonballs to build up so much negative energy. The negative energy build up far outweighs the positive energy release from the wishes by an astronomical amount.
@@lilchristuten7568 I see your point, but I think it makes sense. The Dragon Balls are designed to subvert the natural order of the world. Souls were never supposed to be able to die and then be wished back, not to mention all the other things wished for, usually to fulfill some kind of selfish desire. So the natural way of things is being subverted with each wish, so I'd accept that each wish has a great cost of some kind. Perhaps the execution could be tidier, but the idea meshes very well with the eastern philosophies.
Stop everything you're doing and go watch GT! The Baby and Shadow Dragons sagas are absolutely worth it! Baby Vegeta and Omega Shenron are amazing designs and boss fights.
@@daniell1483
Actually the only wish that was made to fulfill a selfish desire was the wish for king Piccolo to regain his youth, the only other wish that could be considered selfish was oolong's wish for underwear but that wish was made in haste in order to keep Pilaf from wishing for world domination(a mostly benin wish that spawned a dragon that causes devastating hurricanes), every other wish(every wish that spawned a shadow dragon) was a selfless wish made to bring people back to life.
@@lilchristuten7568 I don't think the wish itself need be evil - the wishes subvert the natural world, even with good intentions. It is the change in the natural order that gives rise to negative karma. It is straight out of Eastern philosophy that all things should be balanced and the Dragon Balls, for good or ill, subvert that balance.
Ssj4 is one of my favourite transformations. Thanks for this video and showing everyone how amazing ssj4 can be!
Enjoy The Monke!
Same
Same
Loving this video, kudos for standing up for gt giving credit where credit is due
In one 42 minute video you have confirmed what I've been telling my friends for ages, thank you.
I would say another reason Goku becomes an Adult as SSJ4 is because I believe the SSJ4 form gives the user their prime physic considering the Saiyan race being a warrior race and it has been explained after a point they grow fast and then slow down the process of aging. So the idea is that harnessing the Ozaru form enhances them to be able to use their prime physical body so perhaps Goku or Vegeta even when they are old and weak with the capabilities to transform to SSJ4 they would return to a form that would best fit them in a fight.
i thought everyone knew why ssj4 brings him back to adult? it's because it bypasses the wish, how has this become lost knowledge?
the ssj4 transformation is genius, and it was specifically explained. the super saiyan 4 is a "limit unlocker", it makes it so you have no upper limit for how high you can go(as well as the 10x energy increase from oozaru), and the form maxes out your current potential energy level. in goku's case, his max current potential energy level brings him back to "normal goku".
this is what makes the transformation so unique and so excellent as a final form, expressed in both its visual look and concept. it's also why gogeta 4 went through the roof, because there is no upper limit. no normal mortal saiyan would be able to reach anywhere close to that level of power due to their own physical limitations.
dbz is a good fucking show, guys. don't forget the reasons why.
@@BlinzerOmega Saiyans don't have physical limits to how strong the CAN grow, just how strong they currently are, and how fast they grow. Tbf, neither do earthlings in the dB universe, because the human z fighters, while always a good few steps behind, haven't hit any sort of "wall." They grow slower than saiyans, but even humans naturally break past their limits given enough time/motivation.
I always thought SS4 was leagues better than Super's transformations. It actually looks and feels like an end all, be all form, as opposed to the mere recolors that is God & Blue. UI I'll give credit for, though, that one was done much better than the other 2, IMO.
I think biggest issue with super is ssb, the story is whatever but its dragon ball thats always been the case i dont watch for story i watch to see cool characters do cool shit the story is just there as a lil extra bonus. Blue comes in with no build up immediately after god and it looks worse, i get it was for more merch for the movie but still it feels like a whole arc or saga is missing in between bog and rf. God looks way better has a cooler aura especially looking at dbs broly, and it just does nothing in the anime like i legit think it doesnt accomplish anything in the entirety of the anime, it just sucks because if blue was built up to it couldve been great, the lazy hair color changes mean less to me because i think if they did more other tham just copying ssj4 it would probably look dumb.
God and Blue are technically Z transformations tho.
"It actually looks and feels like an end all, be all form"
Does it? What does that mean?
I don't agree, honestly. I find that SSJ4 breaks conventions so much that it no longer feels like a Super Saiyan form. Heck. I'd have liked it if it was only as strong as the Super Oozaru form before going golden and being called SSJ4. Then it would be in keeping with how Super Saiyan works.
At least the God Ki stuff feels... more consistent. It's a saiyan. With God Ki. It's not that complicated. Doesn't require anything too stupid to explain how he fucking changes his clothes etc.
Look it's fine if you wanna say "I like SSJ4 more than SSGOD". I see nothing wrong with that. But don't give me that shit about the "be all and end all" crap. That's just useless.
Heck. We see Super Saiyan power progressing by bulking up, changing aura, and hair getting longer. The only other form we really knew of that was different was another form of Super Saiyan that also bulked up but had a different ki nature and colour. Why couldn't we see something more like that? Oh wait. We did. Broly had it. Then God Ki came along and did it again. Kinda keeping the whole Saiyan and Super Saiyan aesthetic.
SSJ4 is kinda cool. In that... Not-canon and kinda fun "what if" almost "fan creation" kinda way?
@@Unethical.Dodgson That's like saying brolys form is stupid because he gets bigger and completely changes... SSJ4 is personally my favorite, because it feels different and a breath of fresh air. Compared to God (goku with red hair and skinny) SSGSS (ooooo blue) UI (Goku but kinda shiny) Royal blue (mildly darker blue). Then there is ssj4, goes into a peak form, I'll give you the clothing change. The abilities are cool, for me it feels like the absolute end all for a sayain. Compared to UI its strong, but also has a toooooooon of downsides. Ssj4 is more consistent, even if the lore is kinda funky. No hate sorry if it comes out that way.
@@2-bit567 bbbbbbut muh super bad!!! Z was the last good dragon ball!!!!
Bro, I subbed in the first 2 minutes of this video. Thanks for bringing the raw facts to the table
Something worth pointing out: Super Saiyan 4 is very similar in concept to Broly's transformations in DBS. Another way of thinking of Golden Oozaru is to think of it as an Oozaru that has gone Super Saiyan. Then, once the Saiyan regains their sense of self in the form, they transform into an SSJ4. This is comparable to Broly's Ikari form, which basically just allows him to tap into his Oozaru power within his base form, and then he goes Super Saiyan on top of that. This theoretically places DBS Broly's full power at roughly equal to Golden Oozaru, and his power just absolutely stomps even though Goku and Vegeta have access to SSG and Blue. Even with both of them in Blue, it's not enough for the two of them to handle him, and even Golden Freeza who's grown stronger since he first showed off the form doesn't stand a chance. It's not until Goku and Vegeta fuse into Gogeta and go Blue that they're able to overpower Broly.
Broly never really does regain his sense of self during the fight. He's fighting berserk, out of control, subject to his rage. Who knows what he's capable of if he learns to apply his power skillfully rather than just recklessly and aggressively throwing his power around? That's what SSJ4 represents, that kind of raw power, but tempered into a more perfected form that is under control and can be used skillfully.
I love SSJ4 and no matter how much time passes I consider SSJ4 the best transformation of goku and hope seeing more of it.
Same, it might not be the strongest but it's still the best
I wasn't even aware there was a "glass controversy" in GT until today. I remember Super fans pooing themselves inside out with rage when someone brought up the laser cheap shot, and yet this somehow has credibility? I have A LOT of problems with GT for its wasted potential, but even I know that the glass cut was because Goku was having a REALLY rough day. That's like when some tries telling me that Raditz could destroy the Earth. Sorry, but no Raditz is not capable of producing 2.25×10³² joules of power. Maybe in his Great Ape form... maybe.
I believe Raditz had a power level of 1200 or around there. So at 12,000, making him almost 2.5 Nappas of 5000; it is possible he could blow up the whole planet with a fully charged attack that gives....If I remember correctly a 1.25 boost in power? If not more? So it is plausable.
Umhh, good points i guess but...
may i ask your age though
- Consistant Fact
people fans currently older than 25 are experienced enough to talk about Z and GT with solid arguments... -
@@xm_heecka.laddder.job_mx5962 you know people younger than 20 can still read and watch everything there is about dragon ball right?
I think you should rephrase your statement to
Only people over 25 have enough nostalgia clouding their arguments to talk about GT and Z as i want them too
@Rage Kage Do you unironically think people in their early twenties are too stupid to understand dragonball?
@@nightdrivenen7909 power level are not linear. And the canon (minimum) power level you need to destroy a planet is 17,000. So even King Vegeta in the manga wasn't planet level. (Maybe in the anime too, the scene could have been a flash fordward of the Saiyans attacks extended on multiples days)
Edit : also King Vegeta was weaker than Broly at birth.
Broly you has a power level of 10,000 If I remember right. (So going by that he's not planet level at all)
Super Goku "shaking" the void dimension is suppose to be a feat of strenght and power, but GT Goku destroying entire dimension is considered a... feat of luck? Super fanboys be wilding...
i have to thank you you got me into dragon ball gt and honestly i love it so thanks :D
That’s actually an amazing point. I never considered the fact that he literally pushes the entire building up by one glass window. How TF did a sheet of glass support the entire sky scraper???
With just his fingers btw, if you watch the clip you can see that his fingers alone are holding the entire building. They're pressed on the glass and his palms arent
Goku prolly infused Ki barrier into the building do it doesn't break
@@mr.knightthedetective7435 big brain thinking my guy
@@mr.knightthedetective7435 Yep. Really filling in all of the holes so the show doesn't have to.
Like watching a movie where a guy gets shot in the head and is fine in the next scene. You: "He must have a twin! Or he absorbed the bullet into his brain! Or perhaps... just maybe... The writers were fucking stupid!"
@@Unethical.Dodgson not the writers, just the storyboard artists or animators messed up somewhere along the line
Super Saiyan 4 is my favorite form in the whole series. Everything about it and everytime I see it come on screen, I sit up and am literally on the edge of my seat, hyped. Super Saiyan Blue doesn't do that to me (except in Dbs Broly), it always just made me say "Cool" and that's it.
@@TakeshiInazuma Ssj4 as a form has won most of the fights it was in (excluding Super 17 and Omega Shenron). Ssj Blue hasn't ever really won every fight except in the Resurrection 'F' arc and Evolution Blue Vegeta beating Toppo.
AGREE!!!
@@TakeshiInazuma 3? Really dude? You can make the arguments of 1 and 2 sure......but 3? Are you serious 😂?
The fact super broly made ssjb seem really god damn cool speaks to the quality of it. Ssj4 needs some good animation.
@@JoeGuyWhosThere Honestly I think the Old Style Animation really suits SSJ4. It has the rougher more toned appearance, matching the more menacing and rough tone of SSJ4. Meanwhile God and Blue are "Softer" looking forms meaning Super's softer and more modern artstyle better suits it.
I think Jiren could hold back the Universal GT spirit bomb, because Kid Buu resisted a weak Goku, so therefore, Jiren would overpower Goku. The spirit bomb is needs to be pushed to be Effective, so if it never touches him then that's it, he wins, he pushes it away and that's it.
Also, Jiren isn't exactly evil, people with some virtue can deflect it, if that wasn't retconned at all. He may be selfish, but he does fight to defend his universe.
@@Rikorage
I wonder if that's something he stopped being able to do after he tried to blast goku's friends and family during the fight
@@TecTitan well considering he did that out of desperation in a fight to save his own universe I highly doubt he'd suddenly be evil because of it
Yeah
Buu pushed it back
Until Goku had his energy restored
Then he dint stoped a chance
Finally someone who has a brain and actually shows facts to prove a point
It's funny how people just tend to forget that theatrics plays a big part of an anime. It adds excitement and drama, and that's exactly what that skyscraper scene was.
I like to imagine that each person feeds the Spirit Bomb through a funnel. You *can* have one Android give enough energy to eventually get there, but one being can only give so much at a time, so having more people would also build it up a lot faster
Thank you for mentioning the bullets and pebbles because everytime i bring that up they act like I'm making that up.
Also, with the lifting the skyscraper scene, he would have gone to ssj 4 for improved energy manipulation/ control. It's shown when goku tries to use instant transmission while in his base state that due to his reduced size, he can't control his energy properly, but he could in ssj 4. So for ease of control ssj 4 just makes sense
My theory is that he was immortal, given by Shenron until the dragon balls were returned to their original state. Shenron, instead of scattering and petrifying the spheres, choose to fuse with Goku and them both, slumbering until said objects were restored.
Then, 100 years later, with the task done, he soon awakens and finds himself in the opening of a new World Tournament. With Shenron fine and no evil threathening anyone or anything, he enjoys watching all of it, but thinks the current generations know no hardship or are too immersed in their daily lives. Goku entertains the idea of seeing Pan, and of course, she almost dies of a heart attack with the surprise.
Pan says both his and Vegeta's lineage continued on healthy and strong, but besides the occasional deranged individual or terrorist group, nothing threatened the planet. Goku, now knowing no one besides her and having no sparring partners or rivals, seeks new strength. Stuck on Earth like this would do no good. Pan, knowing how pure blood saiyans are, and after a couple of lengthy conversations with everyone in Capsule Corp., Goku stayed there a few days. Checking the strength of his and Vegeta's descendants, he sees potential in all of them, and he feels relieved.
Needless to say, he soon convinces Pan and Bulma to lend him a space pod, eagerly wanting to adventure in space again, seeking strong opponents, potential rivals, and maybe save some people of their tyrants; reminding Pan of their adventures together. Before leaving, if the state of things got too bad, he told them to gather a few capable of turning Super Saiyan in one spot, and raise their power to the max a few minutes, in case he had to instant transmision back after leaving a ki sphere behind.
With no worries left and a tearful but happy looking Pan, Goku leaves excited for new possibilities... wondering who will be the next to witness Super Saiyan 4.
Now I'd like to see that as an enhanced ending to GT
y'all low-key forgot goku and vegeta jr
Ok.
And now to other worlds Goku is Just this immortal deity with multiversal power more powerfull than zeno(he resited a ERASURE attack) who apears from time to time and help people
This breakdown earned the subscription. Love GT
If Goku’s Universal Spirit Bomb hit Earth it would wipe out everything except for the GT glass.
Say what u want about GT, but I miss Goku's mature mentality as opposed to supers juvenile one
The struggles, the stakes involved and actual emotions felt during the series in underappreciated
I like the childish goku because it reminds Me of (and was based of) TFSgoku
They literally wish him to be a child at the start of the series
he's child brained in super and outright actually a child in GT, I don't think he's more mature especially if you try rewatching GT with this topic in mind
@@TecTitan and that's the point, he is only childish and dumb when he's in child form, but ssj4 he is back to a level headed adult
Now compare that to Goku in super
@@spinningkarma ands Thats way tfs ruined canon Dragon ball
No matter how much theyr abridged is good
Theyr jokes flanderized goku
Personally I think part of the reason why he transformed into a Super Saiyan 4 to catch the building is because having an insane amount of energy or not Goku's body is physically weaker than it would be if it was an adult his body just might not be able to handle the amount of energy would require to lift up and push a building like that. Remember being strong in Dragon Ball requires three types of energy and one of those types of energy at least has to do with the physical strength of your body. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day if you have that massive amount of energy if your body can't handle it that's actually what the Kaio Ken is all about Goku raising his power to such a degree that his body can't handle that gigantic amount of power anymore and it starts having a backlash effect.
When Goku became a child his body physically got weaker the amount of energy that he had didn't change but his body did physically get weaker making him unable to sustain powerful Transformations like Super Saiyan 3 a transformation that even on adult Goku puts a great deal of strain on him.
I think at that point he had mastered Ssj3 before he shrunk
@@nigelholland1714 I honestly don't think so. Super Saiyan 3 is the only transformation that drains your time on earth when you come back for a day when you're dead. I theorize the reason why this is is because this transformation drains your life force something that isn't really seen with any other transformation. If this is true this means it can't really be mastered because you only have so much life force
@@supernew10doh64 No. SSJ3 is just uncontrolled ki leakage.
@@Jon-jt9fy I really don't think that's it otherwise why would that be the only form in the entire series to drain your time when you're coming back to the living world for a day? No other form crates the type of fatigue that Goku experiences with that form Goku passes out multiple times in his fight with Kid Buu because of the fatigue that Super Saiyan 3 creates.
@@supernew10doh64 "why would that be the only form"
who knows why. Akira might. But it is the only form that does that.
Thank you for the GT knowledge.
I feel like the reason Goku stayed in SSJ4 instead of detransforming is because it’s not really an ascension in the SSJ line but rather a new state of Ozaruu combined with SSJ as he has his primal battle instincts (as seen against ice Shenron) and raw power (that you specifically said) of his Oozaruu but in a more controlled form resembling that of SSJ I mean, look back on the transformation, Goku goes primal before calming himself down and seemingly taking control once he can fully control SSJ in his primal state. SSJ God sorta resembles the same thing in how it’s not a direct upgrade in line of SSJ but rather an advanced method through the ‘dose’ of god ki, allowing Goku to further expand his control to further heights and this ki seemingly changes his power, causing whacky hair colours.
Super saiyan 4 is a more creative looking form than all of the dragon ball forms
This man is breaking it down piece by piece. Keep doing what your doing bro💯
Ill never forget being a Kid watching DB GT and talking about it in school back in Brazil, the rumors that Pan had a Kid that could become SSJ5 lol, those were the times
I just came accross this channel... I'm impressed, I guess you are indeed a good professor of dragonballogy.
I love gt i grew up watching it unlike super gt isnt afraid to try new interesting things gt has amazing music i loooooooooove gt. I will live and die by gt . Im with gt all day everyday
Yes exactly saiyan scholar, GT goku transformed so the skyscraper wouldn't collapse in two, by using a physics equation P=F/A pressure is force divided by area, him being so small while pushing it would make the skyscraper more vulnerable....
For example push on your knee as hard as you can with your hand it won't go through.. Push 1/6 as hard with a needle it will go through.(Btw I don't recommend anyone doing this just explaining) This is because the pressure is multiplied by dividing the force by such a small area.
Hater: You weak-ass..--YOU'RE GLASS TIER!
Chads having watched this: Thank you 😎
"Why is my left foot better than my left foot?"
SSj4 is amazing, I love it. My thoughts to this (no numbers or anything) are: SSJ4 seems like a more natural, non KI Based Transformation. It's the raw essence and Power of the Golden Great Ape Form combined with Goku's and/or Vegeta's Mind. That's why I think he can technically kind of "tap into the SSJ4" and hold it, since it's not requiring KI to transform. Super Saiyan 1-3 are all KI Based transformations, hence the KI drain, SSJG use God KI to Transform, and so does SSJB.
Now the healing thing confused me a little here. Comparing GT Trunks and Future Trunks is a bit weird, bcs obviously Future Trunks is stronger and has more KI, almost reaching God-KI Level, which is a higher KI Form. That's why he could heal 1 SSJB and GT Trunks couldn't heal Goku alone. Kibitokai/Kibitoshin, idk u know who I mean cannot channel the raw energy of Saiyans, which is needed to heal SSJ4, that's why he had to heal the other Saiyans. It's not always about the mass of KI a character has, rather Kibitokai/Kibitoshin kann heal KI Based things and Physical stuff, but not the SSJ4 essence, since he's no Saiyan.
If you want to compare SSJ4 and SSJB, I'd say SSJ4 and Full Power Blue Vegeta are about equal in raw Power. SSJ4 Full Power would be more like idk Vegito Blue? The reason I'm not saying Gogeta Blue is bcs Gogeta immediately enters Full Power Blue when he transforms and Vegito goes base Blue. Gogeta Blue overpowers FP Broly and I highly doubt SSJ4 can compete with FP Broly from Super. Omega Shenron would be an equivalent to FP Broly I guess, maybe even a little bit weaker since Omega Shenron has no chance against Gogeta SSJ4, but Broly still put up a fight against Gogeta Blue.
Oh just when I was writing up to this point, I thought about something.
Gogeta SSJ4 supports my assumptions actually. Do you remember the rulings to fusion? Base Form holds up to 30 min., SSJ 10 mins. and SSJ3 5 min. SSJ4 Gogeta holds 10 mins., so the KI-Consumption to remain the Fusion State is about the same as SSJ, which shows that SSJ4 can't be a KI-Based Form.
Yeah that's all I have to say about this.
Broly 100% did not put up a fight against Gogeta blue. Super Gogeta sure
@@riastradhTo add on, he didn’t even get a **single hit in**
I totally agree with you. In my opinion SSJ4 is what I call the Saiyans true bass form.
Dude I swear to god you might be the most based Dragonball RUclipsr I’ve seen sometimes I feel like the only one with some opinions like Z Broly being awesome GT being better than Super and Faulconer making Dragonball badass. But then I found that you shared many opinions that I have and make the arguments that convince me further to keep these opinions.
Of course, Bro. Classic Childhood DB will NEVER die!
Literally everything you said I heavily agree with , Love GT, hate super, LOVE OG Broly
@@thmistrapillay1811 I don’t even care how edgy Broly was, Him using Goku like a fucking trampoline while Slow Roosevelt played was metal.
@@kazuhiramiller7945 ikr !!!!
Ssj4 will forever be my favorite transformation and gogeta ssj4 was everything in budokai 3, never will understand the hate or the "boring" comments, it was well done in many ways and had it short comings at some point like all things but I don't remember any cons lmao
ive seen a ssj4 vs super saiyan blue video that sums it up pretty well i think, while blue or god form is leagues above 4 in power level, the ki drain is so immense compared to 4's ki control that ssj4 could keep up until blue has no stamina
It's stated as the opposite in the various shows. 4 is primal and raw and hard to control where Blue is literally perfect control, hence why he can now combine a super saiyan form with kaio ken.
@@MarkoArillius super saiyan 4 is the perfect heritage to the power of the saiyans and the tail helps with ki control, super saiyan blue also takes extreme focus to maintain the form, not the ki it consumes
@@MarkoArillius it’s been stated but it actually hasn’t been shown, well at the very least manga blue. Manga blue has been shown to be way harder to control than 4 as they can’t stay in perfected blue for long, while we see gown natural and little effort goku is in ssj4, likes it’s just his base form.
Interesting video, but the part about the adaptability of the Super saiyan 4 for me is a bit tricky.
The super saiyan 4 is able to adapt to any attack and it can't work the second time, but after that you show that's an inerhent ability of Goku, because he stated it again in his base form against Cell and Frieza in Hell.
I'am thinking, one of the best common abilities of the saiyans is the zenkai and maybe it's not only a power boost but give to them adaptability, saiyans can even react and adapt to the attacks that previously live them to the brink of death.
Since in GT the super saiyan 4 is considered the essence and the maximum expression of the saiyans, maybe it can enhance the zenkai ability too.
(Sorry but english isn't my native language)
Maybe SSJ4 simply amplified the effect of adaptability to make it faster and, by proxy, more noticable?
Yeah you know they kinda got rid of the whole Zenkai boost thing after the Frieza arc though... right? Because 1. Toriyama forgets things and 2. It was getting to be a bitch to keep track of.
So it really only played a part when the saiyans were weaker. Up until power levels ranging in the lower millions. After that... it didn't seem to be a thing anymore.
(Why do you think Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks didn't get ANY stronger at all after getting their asses kicked in the cell arc? Answer: Because Toriyama both forgot and discarded Zenkai boosts. Done. Additional: Future Gohan fought the Androids and lost numerous times. Guy should have been fucking unstoppable.)
I kinda stopped paying attention to lifting feats when 10x gravity brought goku to his knees, when as a kid, he held a car over his head.
As goku weights l36 lbs (62kg)
10x is 1360 lbs,
A mid sized sedan is 3351 lbs
More than twice as heavy. As a child.
You've gotta remember at 10 gravity he was at least planetary by this point so like. Bruh.
@@JoeGuyWhosThere I'm pretty sure how strong you are doesn't equal how heavy you are. If that were the case then all of the saiyans would look like massive Greek gods, or like jirens everywhere
@@jape3845 Exactly so why does this planet destroying ass man struggle in 10x gravity
You're now the best RUclipsr and nobody can tell you wrong
I haven't watch GT in a long time
This video wants me to do a marathon of GT
So with the building push you need to remember that the weight of the building is on that window, glass is a string but if it was just supported by his hands even steel would buckle and break. This means he has to be extending his Ki over the surface of the building and pushing against his own ki. All the Ki used to support the building can not be used to support his body or muscles.
Lol he only likes comments that suck him off didnt like yours and you have a fair point
Nah he equalled out the force in his fingertips and palms . Try it on a glass window. this feet destroys power scales .
Makes sense
@@aarroncollier4583Are you suggesting this man tries to catch a skyscraper?
I think another thing people have to take into consideration regarding lifting a building is
Goku pushing too hard, and he'd just slide through.
Would've been better if Goku displayed using ki, to spread it evenly across the building. Again, so he wouldn't break through the glass, and the rest of the building
That’s probably what the writers were thinking but they did not show the ki spreading for some reason
The writting from before is much better than the new ones tbh...
Another thing is that goku was able to control the energy output needed to transform otherwise he would have destroyed the glass by just transforming.
@@elijahthirbenny248 pretty much... Otherwise that whole energy would send everyone flying...
"Goku pushing too hard, and he'd just slide through. "
That's... literally not how physics works. At all. Goku pushing too hard? The building weighs several thousands of tons. Doesn't matter how hard he's pushing. If he's there at all. He's going through it.
Also when you make up reasons and excuses for scenes that never provide any info themselves... You're not fixing the scene. You're making yourself look gullible.
2:32
Goku was in a relaxed state. When he was hit by the rock, he was sleeping. That's the point of the training. When he was scratched by a bullet, he hasn't trained for long. Even then, it's still a speeding bullet, a glass is nothing compared to it. When he was pierced by a laser, he returned to his base form (anime). Goku in a serious, defensive form should not be able to be scratched by a mere glass in any way. He had to go back to his normal form before that could happen as that signifies his weakened state. Goku being able to maintain SSJ4 while being that vulnerable is not logical, and is in fact a plot hole. They make mistakes, and if they got the chance to fix it, they would like when they noticed how Goku was hurt by a normal laser in his SSB form.
GT fanboys doesnt know bout that man
as you can see, all supers content in this channel was pure hate🤣 lmao this guy is GT fan
@@cloudstrife8218
Yeah. Surprised not one top comment pointed that out. I couldn't bear to finish the video when I noticed this flaw. He sounds like a GT fanboy indeed.
I know this is old but this a awful point all it proves is that anyone caught off guard in super and d can take major injuries
Meanwhile gt goku has the shit beat out of him and still stays in form even to the point of glass hurting it
If you ask me that’s WAY more impressive then goku getting hurt by a rock in super sayian or goku almost dying to a laser in ssb
You're a real one for using ultimate tenkaichi music ( imo the best DragonBall game soundtrack)
Great video as always, sir. So here is an idea I have been considering, and I am sure you would agree. Majin Buu was in the wrong arc. He should have been waaaaaaaay down the line, and should be just now, in Super or GT, showing up. He's been there since time began, or shortly there after. He should have been a far graver threat than he was. I think he should have been THE goal for Goku and friends before they were even allowed to venture into God Ki
Technically buu is...they scrapped GT and went straight into Resurrection F then Battle of the Gods
Buu was supposed to have been the final threat for the main cast to fight, hence why they time skipped to end of Z and clearly showed that the story would be passed on to the younger ones after that.
Then they decided against that for GT and will probably be retconned in super to push it further along as bulla is four in it leaving broly, super hero and the manga continuation stories to take place in those four years.
Love this channel and all the information you give. That last line though, was one of the greatest things I've ever heard. "Do not let your hatred make you stupid." That's needs to be on a shirt 😆
I used to have some GT VHS tapes I would watch on repeat every day. I had the Baby vs Goku episode
I always looked at GT as a alternative universe. I still believe its a good show but I like to think there are multiple universe because of Trunks time jump. I loved the return of their tails.
It was stated that GT was a different timeline where Beerus didnt wake up
I love this video; Hopefully people will stop Hating GT for no real reason at all... I've never understood why people always downgraded the Power of Super Saiyan Four, because in my opinion, Super Saiyan 4 is better than Blue...
Do you think people hate GT because SSJ4 is weaker than SSJ God? This has nothing to do with power levels. DB Fans only think about Power levels instead of proper writing.
@@chabbab6698 Dragon Ball GT has plenty of good writing in its own right, Super Saiyan 4 is the pinnacle of the Primal Saiyan race, and it shows that even without a God Ritual, the Saiyan race can achieve the impossible...
@@chabbab6698 I hope you aren't implying super had good writing
@@jaxsonfanta5420 super had even worse writing than GT
@@jaxsonfanta5420 Honestly, I grew up with Z, and GT but I'd be lying if I said I hated Super at first, I like many was so desperate for a new Dragon Ball show, I was willing to accept just about anything, and actually enjoyed it... It was only upon taking a second look that I realized just how bad the show actually was... At every turn, Super is a mockery of What it's predecessors were... Even GT, while I admit wasn't the best show ever, had some really good story writing and impactful emotions shared with Z... But Super was just so... SUPERFICIAL... Everything about it is so far away from the emotions, The Trust, the Pains, and the Joys, that we felt with the Z Fighters throughout their Journey... It just, sucks... 😞
Lol you mastered the art of getting views with these titles. Respect
Thanks!
I never knew he had that Hax...
That sounds cool.
This video is so much more complicated than I thought it would be.
Honestly, my biggest gripe with GT was never any of the feats, or the transformation scaling nonsense, it was that GT was boring. Dragon Ball never had the BEST story telling in anime, and I'm not going to pretend that Super is far and away superior in that front, cause it definitely isn't. But, to me, Super at least is enjoyable to watch, whereas GT was not. The pacing felt painfully slow, the dialogue uninteresting, the characterization mediocre, a whole mess of factors that overshadowed anything good that came from GT. Don't get me wrong though, GT DID have some good moments, both action and comedy wise, such as the Shadow Dragon Saga for action, and the Vegeta mustache bit for comedy. Beyond those examples of specific things though, I can't actively think of anything from GT I liked that much.
This even extends into Super Saiyan 4. I just plain don't like the form. I think the added fur on the body looks bad, and that it adds nothing positive to the look. To me, it always just looked like edgy furry Goku. This isn't to say that the transformations in Super are home runs either. SSG was a pretty fun transformation in my book, keeping a similar concept to the original Super Saiyan, but mostly going for a sleeker design while keeping the form as almost a base level for the newly introduced God Ki rather than another form of Super Saiyan. SSGSS (or SSB) was a critical failure though. Design wise it's super lazy, only being Super Saiyan but blue, and there was no adequate reasoning as to why and how the form was reached. They at least had the intelligence to show WHY and HOW SSJ4 was obtained in GT, but nope, not in Resurrection of F. Super gave a small hint to the form before showing it off, but even that was extremely and critically lackluster. Ultra Instinct, while an amazing idea, was wasted as a transformation. It should have simply remained a technique, something to be used, not turned into. That said, the form is nice looking, and again, I really love the concept.
I'm a major Dragon Ball fan, even with my actively distaste for GT, I respect any person who takes the time to enjoy something despite the criticisms, so long as they are aware of why something is criticized. I am far from a Super fanboy, but I do enjoy my time with Super, far more than I did with GT, but to anyone trying to downplay GT to boost up Super, remember that comparing to the worst thing something has in it's arsenal does not make you superior, and you risk having your flaws thrown out and making yourself look worse.
im agree with u..i prefer goku to get new technique rather than a new form
How do you pump out so much content? Unreal
Nanomachines, Son.
To be honest, most, if not all of these are just his older videos being reposted into a single, longer one.
Super saiyan 4 still one the best transformations "TO THIS DAY"!!
"Once I'm hit with a technique, it doesn't work again!" So if Goku is hit with a genjutsu from Itachi Uchiha, Goku's brain would've found a way to negate it the next time?
Genjutsu only work on ppl tht posses chakra
@@kxng4525 But if Itachi could do it to anyone, then I think SSJ4 Goku would be able to naturally negate it the second time it's used on him.
@@kxng4525 everyone possess small amounts of chakra. Everyone minus the ones Naruto/Sasuke protected were in the infinite tsukuyomi.
And its also stated that everyone has chakra later on during Kaguya's past storyline
Shit might have been a retcon of what Jiraiya said but can't ignore it.
It works the first time not as well the second time but doesn't work at all the third time
Hey yo I hope you keep making more videos
“You lied”
Princess Trunks: I did no such thing!
YOU DIRTY BOY!
I think the main reason people don't understand and downplay GT characters is because the show makes things seem more grounded and they don't really show the power growth they just become freakishly strong from the fights. GT characters are OP. Baby saga Goku in base before getting ssj4, he dominates ssjblue Goku and Vegeta from the frieza arc. GT Gohan was close to GT Goku's power in the first saga and then in the baby saga takes on baby boosted ssj Gohan and Goten with ease in base
Explain how gt base goku dominates ssjblue without linking gt to super as chronologically sequels.
@@lilchristuten7568 well duh that'd be next level stupidity but just watching this video gives you all you need but rewatch the shows cause me to truly explain how I figured it out it'll be several paragraphs cause I'd have to give you the all the scalingings that make the most sense being based off of z Goku and and explain why for each one. But real quick at the start of the first saga in GT he's about Kid Buu levelish in base super isn't btw at the beginning of the show not even close. By the end of the saga GT Goku in his base he is around Super Vegito from Z in base and if you need proof, it's all in the first saga with Goku's statements and fights and this is easily his smallest increase in power by a hell of a lot during GT. Again man I'm not gonna sit here and explain everything out but there's a really quick example of the freakish increases in base power in GT. DBS power increase do obviously happen but a lot of it is from Zenkais and transformations which in GT heavily on base plus adds transformations later
@@lilchristuten7568 and he goes from that which Gohan was pretty even with Goku to getting embarrassed by Goku when not only is he a ssj but he's boosted by baby's power and Goten as well fighting him at the same time. All before getting his tail back and ssj4 and Zenkais. It's not close at the start of the shows but DBS Goku in the 2nd half of DBS💪😬
@@hunterwise5156
Even if GT goku is super Vegito level in his base by the end of the first saga (I seriously doubt that he is), super vegito still isn't as powerful as base goku after the BoG saga.
I don't think base goku could defeat ssb goku or ssb vegeta. That would be way too big of a power gap.
You’re my favorite man now.
I have successfully watched the full series, thank you
I've never understood the hate towards DB GT. I love all of them from DBZ, DBGT and DB Super, and SS4 has always been my all time favourite form and have been desperately hoping to see it on Super... I would also love to see the Saiyan tails brought back as well as the Oozaru form.
Have you tried watching through DB GT? It's a slog, it's literally the Goku show.
@@johnlucas2838 the main character is the most important character in the story 🤯🤯
@@johnlucas2838 you say that like it’s a bad thing
@@TREVORVADER If everything is pivotal to what one character does all the time, then it definitely is a bad thing.
@@johnlucas2838
Yes and no
Its up to the writers decision and direction of the story whether the main character is the center focus of the story in contrast to the side characters which wouldnt have a major contribution to the progression.
As someone who reads mangas, manhwas and manhuas often, side characters only just add a break to the viewers pov while having a small change/impact within the story.
Whether u want the main character to be the pivotal or not is purely based on preference as ur just the viewer, if u hate it, dont watch it, dont feed ppl ur own bias towards it smh.
I believe the universal spirt bomb was just too strong, they didn't need such a big one for omega, 50-60% of that should've done the job
I’m glad to know someone actually knows how powerful SS4 Goku this show deserves way more love than it gets because there is a lot of good people ignore just because haha show looks bad.
GT Goku: experienced, mature, knows when to take things seriously. An older Goku in the body of a child
Super Goku: A literal man-child
I dig the effort in arguments... But why do ppl in the db community love using units to explain the strength of characters...? Like... Neither Akira Toriyama nor GT's author, even take these scalings to consideratiom, thats why power scalings always remained inconsistent in the series; I'm sure there're more direct ways of explaining something as simple as this...
Also people who fail to consider scene impact and description (i.e. the glass demonstration) are either inexperienced in comprehending simple context or are too slow understand.
Technically yes tori does that’s the point of power lvl
@@DemonAshura when was the last time you heard about a character’s power level after the Frieza arc?
@@pixelblitz197 he writes them down tf
@@DemonAshura no he doesn't
@@MrRBX he does have u not read the volumes
Jiren would run back to universe 11 if he got a glimpse of Change State Goku's universal genki dama 😂
@@TakeshiInazuma Jiren is not multiversal+ lol. he's high levels of multiversal but not multiversal+
Multiversal+ means destroying infinite amount of universes at a time and no one has done that
both GT and Super are in the high levels of multiversal
@@ShayanAli_29 What feat in gt has ever put it at multiversal my guy.
Did-did you not just watch the video? Like, in all seriousness, the video JUST explained how it was multiversal+. GT Goku broke a DIMENSION with nothing but a small Kamehameha in base form. This wasn't even a quarter through the video. Think, brother, think
I like how top comments are liking his ass and newest are just hating for reasons i couldn't make sense
"please do not let your hatred, make you stupid" great line
Indeed ssj4 as much powerful than we thought I hate when people try to downplay on ssj4 being vegito or gogeta level it’s BS because gt goku and other GT characters are much powerful than we Thought it’s sad really
Gt characters have feats that make them universal around so. I don't know who the hell scales them to either vegito or gogeta because that's either hella low scaled or ridiculously high scaled.
Good sir saiyan scholar i applaud you! so many things i didn't think about and many that i have built my arguments on and while im still only half way through the video i gotta know, do you think super Saiyan 4 makes more sense on an evolutionary side of things? Like my feelings is that for a warrior race that transforms into a great ape the body fur and darkened eye rings make sense its a symbol of them and their beast sides becoming one and making the full moon thing null and void because both genetically and spiritually they are becoming more stable allowing for higher feats of strength.
"Super saiyan 4 this stronger than super saiyan 4"
Me: brain.exe crashed
I always assumed they used ki/chi to protect themselves from cuts and bruises and that those barriers could only be broken by another fighter. So SSJ4 Goku and bullet damaged Goku didn’t have enough ki to probably themselves from though minor injuries.
Um 28:45. Yeah power has a direct influence on how much you can heal someone at least going of elder kais stament. Your argument with dende implies that dende and kibito kai used the same form of healing, as well as your comparision between kibito kai and trunks requiring that the skill is apparently super hard which is never stated or implied.
Trunks in super is far stornger than the gt zfighters who were needed to restore goku. Also you kinda debunk your own point here earlier because you pointed out the z fighters only need to restore base goku to full strenth. So assuming trunks only needs to restore base goku or base vegeta to full strenth using a much more effetive healing teqniuqe than wouldnt that make comparing 2 ways of power transfer irrelevant.
Because your either saying trunks only had to restore base goku or vegeta which considering his base form was already in the realm of there's would not be a hard task or your saying that blue requires so much more energy that trunks had to go past their blue forms in power.
Nevermind both are different continuities meaning gt doesn't necessarily follow the rules of z and the rules for healing could be comeptly different from both versions.
I think the budokai tenkaichi series explained the Android energy the best. They can't charge up their ki but they constantly generate ki without action. As for why they couldn't channel all their energy constantly, I think we have to assume their ki capacitor discharges with some kind of limitation in rate. So it's possible that the kind of enormous flush of energy needed for big attacks is something they can't do. By this reasoning they shouldn't be able to do any genki attacks like kikoho or heavy contribution to the spirit bomb, nor depleting ki attacks like the final flash. I'm not sure but I don't recall 17 or 18 doing any energy attacks that deplete their store of energy at once.
Title had me a bit confused but the actual video is solid in concept.
I think he was struggling to hold the building up, But like you said without breaking anything. It could be easily explained that you enveloped the entire building in ki and was using his strength to do that while he slowly placed the building back in place. Or just made a flat keybarrier to put equal pressure across the building across the building and was terrified of killing everyone. These are the same entities that can tap planet and blow it in half.
Saiyan Scholar Spitting the Facts 🐉👊💥
Imagine what a hypothetical GT super saiyan 5 would've been like
Wow thank you for this video ! I wish you woulda talked about how ss4 gogeta was pulling off the UI goku and Jiren before they even existed because ppl act like that never happened 😭
Not even the super dragonballs have as much knowledge as Saiyan Scholar
I'm just a Fan. A grunt to the World of Corporations and Toy Sales.
You forget to mention that Goku is holding the skyscraper with just his fingers, you can see where they press on the glass and his palms do not
Very good point!!!