Making A Small Air Filtration Unit For The Workshop.... FAIL!
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- In this video I attempt, and fail to make a prototype air filtration unit for small workshops.
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Use a fan with more pressure, pull the air throug the filters and don't use such dense filters. Just do it, we need the follow up ... nice channel btw...
Thank you!
Jochen Mayer right.. The bathroom fan is not designed to use filters, just suck moist air out of the house. These Dyson filters are designed for the high powered vacuum suction system. So, too dense for the power if this fan. If it needs to be this small, you might try less dense house (hvac) type filters. maybe use an electrostatic filter so you can have better airflow but use static electricity to attract the particles... other than that, you would need to change out your fan system for something more powerful in a small package
it is correct, the fan is too weak to suck outside air, more powerful fan is a good idea
@@manhngo4275 I don't think any fan will be able to produce enough static pressure to pull air through those filters.
Not a waste of time at all, you gained experience and us the viewers can also learn by your experiment. I am sure there are more knowledgeable viewers on here who can put you on the right track, thus we will all be better informed if we want to try something like this project in the future. It is good to see maker youtubers post their "fails" as it were, it shows us mere mortals that it is not a bad thing to get it wrong sometimes! I really enjoyed it.
Thank you!
@@RagnBoneBrown great vid! Did you make a second attempt, improving the design? I would love to watch that!
I think you placed the filters on the wrong side of the fan! Basically it is designed to pull the air though not push it out, hence the air behind the fan in your set up goes nowhere fast. Both the air filters and cleaners I use have the filters before the fan, the ensuing air exhaust is appreciable not blocked. Also I think one hepa filter is enough, you're just further restricting the air passage with no appreciable dust reduction benefit!! Just remove both filters from your setup, duct tape one to the front and let me know ...
Thank you! May try this :-)
This was my thought too... pull the dust in to the filter, don't try and push the dust in to it.
pulling or pushing air won't change the effectiveness. filters only work by there being a pressure differential from one side to the other, they are not direction specific.
You always want the filters on the intake of the fan for the mere fact that you dont want your fan clogged with particulate....but....there are actually a few more things wrong too. With the filters in the exhaust area instead of the intake the exhaust actually bounces off the filters and causes back pressure against the incoming air, this is why the pull was strong in the middle and weak on the edges...the air is trying to come back around the edges. The fan has a very low CFM rating which is only decreased by the filters (check how little is coming out the exhaust). One filter would likely have been enough to kill this little fan but two was pretty much a guarantee. You might be able to salvage materials in the project a bit be reversing the flow but you will likely need to use a fan with more power. I would suggest either the tried and true box fan or if you really want to re-utilize your design as much as possible, try using a duct booster fan like this one. www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Inline-Booster-Noise-Grounded/dp/B01C82T0QC/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1546612519&sr=8-14&keywords=duct+booster+fan
@@cakepanda Most filters are direction specific - hence the arrows!
I love that you're not afraid to show your fails. Also cuuuuute kitty appearance.
Not enough air flow.
1) Dyson filters are no good for this application, 2) your fan doesn't have nearly enough static pressure, 3) you always need more CFM than the actual volume of your shop.
I made a copy of the Jet AFS500 airfilter using 18mm plywood, 6 high performance server fans I got for dirt cheap during a sale, and a leftover 150W PSU to feed them. It accepts one Jet pre-filter and one fine filter. The fans move about 103.8CFM (176m3/hr) each at 66 Pa. All 6 of them move a total of 622.8CFM (1058m3/hr), way more than the Jet AFS500 itself which max out at 353CFM (600m3/hr).
I can tell you it does get the job done and you don't need a meter to notice ;) You can smell the air is clean, and you definitely see it because the filter turns brown when it's full.
You could also make a slimmer 3 fans version of it if you cut the filters in half.
PM me if you want the SketchUp plans and pictures.
Link to the fans:
www.amazon.com/Panaflo-120mm-FBA12G12H-1BX-103-8CFM-Computer/dp/B008LA75XG
Other fans would work too as long as they have the same static pressure (66 Pa).
I really appreciate seeing videos like this and like the one with your brother when things go wrong. Its feels more genuine and shows some things i might run into. Love the videos!
Air filtration is something that over powered isn't so bad. Like you said before this isn't your forever shop so investing in a unit with more power won't hurt you it will actually if anything do you better.
Yeah I agree, just wish I had space for it to live
Is under a bench or tool an option? Matthias Wandel has done videos on some smaller ones also.
You supposed to check the CFM on that fan before ordering it. The higher the amount of CFM (cubic feet per minute) the more air will be moved through that fan in the same amount of time.
There are some inline duct fans meant to improve the recirculation on certain machines (also available on Amazon or eBay) for 230V that are more powerful than that bathroom fan and also not so large in diameter. Don’t abandon your project, just look for ways to improve it.
One more thing... being quiet or slightly loud fan will make no difference when you operate any saw in your small shop.
Do you not think ir may be because you have the unit sealed?
For good air flow, wouldn't the back wall of the unit be better if it were vented so the air had somewhere to go?
Just a thought....
The back of the unit isn't sealed, not sure if it was clear in the video. The back of the unit had a circle cut out the same size as the filter to allow the air to go through. I suspect though that as others have pointed out the fan is too weak and the filters too dense! Thank you!
Use the same method but use a larger table or window fan and not a bathroom exhaust fan. Also, put the filters before the suction, not after the air suction.
Keith, if it’s any consolation I reached the same conclusion - and I made two of the suckers, lol! The fans I used were rated at 230 cu M / hour but that drops spectacularly when you start throwing filters in there and I used comparatively free-flowing foam filters designed for motorbikes. Though like you, I also put the fan in front of the filter... 🤔 More experiments needed - and remember, no such thing as a failed experiment, as long as you learn something! Cheers, Peter 👍
This video is really helpful. Fan to begin with is generating low pressure and with addition of dense filters that are designed for 800-1000 watts vac cleaner drastically reduces air pressure. Use paper disposable hepa filters with deeper bends and fix the fan as it would pull air from the filter instead of throwing air on it.
The idea and creation is very nice done, but a see a few problems.
The biggest problem like the other comments below mentioned, is that the fan is too weak, and doesn't provide enough CFM,
and also, the filters will lower the CFM, this reduction will even be more when the filters are getting dirty.
Second big problem is, that the air direction is wrong.
When you pull in dirty air through the fan, the fan will get dirty air and the lifespan will be reduced.
If you let the fan blow in the other direction, then the fan gets only clean air.
I bet your next design will be improved enough to work.
Good luck.
Thanks- great info
I think, the error is easy to detect: U used filter from a dyson vac. U need much much more pressure
to get air through the filters. This toy fan has no power. The tube fan only works like a mixer.
Most bathroom extractor fans are rated to 23 l/s of flow. Experience tells me that these fans, with their high rotor clearances and slow rotational speed operate at quite low static pressures.
The record power fan is rated to 409 cfm which is ~11600 l/m. You fan is roughly 1,400 l/min.
These ratings will be tested under nominal load, so the record power unit will be tested with filters in place and the bathroom fan will be tested without filters. Putting filters on the bathroom fan increases the pressure drop of the system. The fan doesn’t create much pressure in the first place, so this really compounds its weak flow rate.
Long story short, your fan isn’t man enough! 2000 - 3000 l/min is probably an appropriate flow rate, but you need to achieve that with the pressure drop of 2 filters in your system. If you can’t find pressure information on any fans, look for a fan of around 4-5000 l/min with a design which has a very narrow clearance between the shroud and the blade, probably a metal impeller, and a much wider impeller diameter.
(Rules of thumb with industrial fans is that fan diameter is proportional to pressure development and the depth of the fan is proportional to the flow rate)
Hope this helps, and best of luck!
Thanks- great info much appreciated
Tend to agree with Mulligan. You are using rather 'dense' HEPA filters which means that you need a fairly powerful fan to push air through those filters. On the other hand, the fan you used looks pretty 'wimpy'. So your choices are either to use less effective filters, or a more powerful fan.
Thank you!
Bathroom vents will not do the job...use something like this www.solerpalau.com/product/residential/in-line-duct-fans.html that will really pull some air in... Regards Frank
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing fella! As always I learned a lot from your vid (and reading the comments!).
I follow a lot of woodworkers but I think your channel is the best as you do great work without a giant workshop filled with Festool tools like a lot of ‘tubers do!
I hope you go on to make a MkII fan.
Keep up the good work!
I believe anyone with a workshop has made the equivalent of a "white box that does absolutely nothing". I've made some doozies, expensive doozies. Great learning method though.
Just spitballing but I think you'll need minimum 125 CFM fan/motor preferably with sealed ball-bearings and thermal protection.
I do not see this as a failure it’s just your Mk1 😀 Accepting you fan selection for what it is ( it is very small) I think your filters are presenting too much of a restriction and need to be mounted in a larger plenum chamber.
I would put a much bigger filter in a a plenum changer twice that size and construct a smooth transition piece between the fan outlet and the plenum. I do not think your fan can shift air through both those small filters and it is effectively stalled.
Thank you! Great info
As edison build the lightbuld..... he said... : i dont found out a Way to make a lightbulb..... I found out Thousand ways how not to build One!
Agree with people saying the Dysan filters may be too dense. Maybe you could cut one of those light weight corrugated paper filters to fit? Hopefully would not cost too much to try and might save the project, which fundamentally looks like a good idea.
Thank you! Do you have a link to the filter you mention? Will check it out
Good insight. Probably the fan was not sufficient to move the air through the filter- they are designed for high vacuum systems.
BTW it was 200% higher, not 300% (12:01)
Hi keith, I made air filter and fume extractor combi with two of those little fans and it works for me perfectly. I haven't tested it as you did with the particle measuring device but I could determine I had decent flow of air through the filter. And the air didn't smell as much like dust and fumes when I used it. behind the fansI used a different filter materials than your example, a active carbon fabric and fine particle fabric (grease filter from a extraction hood). It might be worth trying different filter materials. I have a video about the build, it might give some new insights. Thumbs up for the video!
I do understand this but how many people calculate pollution in cities & or work environments, unless it’s extreme the human body can counteract things rather well & if you’re comfortable with the amount of dust you’re creating is it necessary?, all questions to ponder mate 👍👍👍👍
You used filter meant for a vacuum which could probably pull a vacuum around 35” of water. An in-line fan like the one you used could maybe do 2” on a good day. Try a filter meant for furnaces since they work as part of a system with much less required pressure differential.
The fan likely just doesn't have enough CFM to move any reasonable amount of air, and the filters exacerbate that.
Wonder if you could put one of those bigger models under the table saw. They need to be fairly central to the room from what I've read.
Have a WEN branded version of the Record Power you showed and it works very well for $125, but my ceiling is almost 3 meters tall...
Yeah you're probably right. The filters were surprisingly thick although you could still feel the air coming through a little. Under the tablesaw - yeah that might work... the space below my saw is still empty following the removal of the titan vac... thank you!
As you used Dyson filters, can you not get the motor from a dyson vac and use that on the box? It must be powerful enough to get the air through the filters and i am sure you can get an old one from ebay?
Its not just CFM , you need static pressure to force the air through the filter. The filter also needs to be closer . So get a high CFM fan with high static pressure .
As far as I know industrial filters on machines at my workplace, it seems that there is the air sucked through the filters rather than be blown through.
I think this is maybe because the blowing creates more distortion right before the dust hits the filter and the particles won't go through the filters as easily.
Kai Seissler , I have no idea how true what you say is but it certainly sounds sensible and nearly all filtration units I have seen operate as you mention.
Nice idea. If I was doing this after watching, I’d probably go for car or motorcycle air filters, you can get washable ones, and I suspect they have a larger filtration area than the dyson ones, which means you should get more air flow through, although I’m not sure what size particles they will remove down to.
I was thinking about trying the exact same thing! I have an insulated shed of similar size and wondered whether something like this would work. You just saved me a lot of time. Nice scientific experiment too!! Well done
The wood particles will be heavier than air so reposition the unit lower down. Also are the filters starving the fan, it will take quite some energy to push air through those dense filters, a bigger surface area filter could make the fans life easier. Keep trying and sharing as there has to be a solution. Cheers
Thanks
No chance that fan will have the airflow. If you look at industrial units they all have performance ratings that increase with fan power/size. All that are any good are loud I’m afraid.
Several factors are causing the results.
1 - The fan is underpowered.
2 - Only the lightest and smallest particles will be at that level. Lower the box to 1.5 meters to make a meaningful difference.
You can use a box fan with a filter attached as a cheap alternative. The HEPA filters [11-16] will clog immediately. Try a #8.
You can use an old canister vacuum from a thrift store since size might be a factor.
You are moving air through a tube @ 5-cfm , pushing* air through not one but two hepa filters , bringing that crappy 5-cfm down to 1-cfm in a shop the size of about 300cf taking about 300 minutes to complete one cycle . it should take 10 seconds , not 10 minutes.
Disclaimer... I am not an HVAC engineer in any way, shape or form but...
Slower fan, moving a higher volume of air into a box with a large surface area for filters. First filter acts as a baffle, causing the air speed to drop, particles lose energy and become entangled in the filters. Your fresh air relatively slowly but in large volume exits the system.
Your MkI system isn't a fail, it's just a prototype and I hope you build a good scrubber soon. Check out Matthias Wandel's really detailed build videos on his filtration system.
Simply put dude, you just used the wrong filters. That fan isn't going to be built to produce anything like the standing pressure that a vacuum cleaner produces, so very little air is going to pass through those filters. Something like a computer case filter pad would work for this application, with that fan. Electrostatic filters are more expensive but would give better results.
In cost terms, Amazon sells forced air heating filters here in the UK and fans are fairly plentiful for trash picking in Autumn, so you might as well just wait till after summer and build a Wandel/Heisz style cleaner.
As others have said there are two factors here. The pressure needed to push air through the filters and the amount circulating happening within the room. A bathroom fan is moving moist air from inside to outside and only needs 100 or so CFM to clear a bathroom in 15-20 minutes. There's no filter holding it back so it's a relatively weak fan. I'm going through this myself in an 18 sq meter shop and I picked up a fan from a Furnace which moves 500 CFM and is designed to work with the drag of trying to pull air through a filter. I'm also using filters designed for heaters or furnaces, so they are compatible and easy to change. Putting it in pandemic terms, you have to work a lot harder to jog when wearing a mask than without.
not enough air pressure to pass the highly restrictive filters. The filters are designed to work in a low pressure vacuum and you have a very weak fan just blowing on them, no vacuum to be seen. Ie you are trying to create a high pressure area with a 25-30w fan on filters designed to be used with a 1000-1500w vacuum.
Great video.
This s not tested. Just theory;
I would suggest that your not moving enough air because your fan designed to move steam and moisture is not strong enough. As evidenced with the prefix "silent".
The air has to pass through two strong filters. You said that the filters are from Dyson which comes with a good strong motor. You could find an old Dyson and repurpose that.
Or, if it's too loud, you adapt your current set up to a suck and blow approach with the strongest fans you can find at around that size. Placing one fan before and one fan after the filter.the thing is, with two filters blocking the way, your solo bathroom fan is not pushing enough air to force the air through the filter.
Keep going, crack it.
With millions of small sheds world wide, you have an attentive audience.
In my opinion the only mistake you’re making here is underestimating the value of this video.
You’ve actually demonstrated 2 things. Firstly, and I don’t mean this sarcastically in any way, you demonstrated how not to make an air filtration unit. It’s supposedly said of Thomas Edison when he was asked if he was disappointed at over a thousand failures to make a light bulb he is reputed to have said “No Not at all. I’ve actually discovered over a thousand ways not to make one!”
Secondly and most importantly you’ve demonstrated the need for good dust extraction and air filtration, especially in a busy, small and totally enclosed shop. Those particles you were measuring were far to small to see but big enough to make a difference to our lungs in years to come.
Thank you for sharing this video and demonstrating this. If nothing else, if it helps someone prioritise this matter in their own workshop, without knowing it you may have just prolonged their life by doing so.
Good work mate and thank you. 👍
I have to admit I liked this vid, because showing your failures just means you're human like a rest of us, I've lost count of the fails i've had over the years...lol
I know this is an old Video/project, but i've been looking into ways of cleaning the air in my small workshop and I found some good info on this site I think its an american that is based in China, smartairfilters.com/en/blog/air-purifier-filter-on-the-front-or-back/?rel=1 There's a few different articles about their DIY attempts at cleaning the air in a Beijing apartment, which they seem to have done with great success using just a fan and a filter. I'm not sure yet if this would work in a workshop environment and i'm still looking around at different ideas, but for anyone looking into making something, I thought it might be useful as its probably the most simple and effective idea i've come across.
As other have pointed out there are a couple issues that probably contribute to the poor performance.
1 - Bathroom fans are generally low cfm and very low pressure.
2 - Fans, in general, are better at pulling air than pushing it.
3 - HEPA filters are typically pretty restrictive.
You could try remaking the project with a new design. The two filters on the outside, but not inline, and the fan in the middle pulling air out. Air would be pulled into the box through a filter on either end, then out the middle through the fan. But that fan might not be up to the task of moving air through those filters.
Sorry your idea didn't work out too well Keith. Can't have everything bro. Lol. Can't offer any advice either cos I know absolutely nothing about air filtration etc ( possibly open window a bit)😷
Bummer it didnt work first time. Worth a few tweaks though. I agree with other comments that ifeally you would suck the air through the filters rather than trying to blow it through. Also, your fan is 250w. A typical dyson is 700w or there abouts. Maybe 2 thick filters are too much and you need a thinner pre filter with just one hepa filter?
I think is not a failure. Air cleaner have to prepare the room for next day. While you working it's functionality is poor (low suction power) but over time it's should work. Just try measure particles next day after work, then leave it overnight and measure again.
Those boxes you can buy still dont filter down to the respirable dust.. I have had this out with all of the manufacturers you displayed and non of them have given me a decent answer.. Think they rely on people not knowing that sub 0.5 micron is the real issue. Though the exposure would be over an 8 hour period...
That fan does not have enough power to be able to pull or push air through those filters. It is designed to pull air through without any resistance if you let me know i can calculate the AC / hr you would need to get the room down to a decent level
Also that particle counter is the PM10 and 2.5 measured in microns?
Best way to get a cheap fan which will have the kind of power you need is a desk fan or something similar. Alternatively a smaller scale fan would be a high powered computer fan however the main trick is to get maximum surface area of the filtration media. I have some ideas if you want to message me and go over a few.
Might be mistaken but wouldn't it be better to suck air through the filters instead of blowing it... Nice vid tho', failing is the beginning of greatness, and being open about it shows you have character. (And vid's still a success) ;)
I'm two years too late, but wanted to state the obvious.
Any fan that promises to be silent also promises to be nearly useless, especially when you're trying to restrict the airflow with a filter. You need something that can generate a pressure differential and that means noise.
Anything branded Dyson is essentially a jet turbine repurposed into a household appliance. 😅. They can get away with using those thick sponge filters because their blowers are so powerful. Pairing them with that wimpy silent fan... was about the worst combination you could make.
Thought I couldn't like this channel more ... then you hit me with experiments, graphs and some Excel AND Dylan (look at those toe beans)! This is what I'm here for!
I'm going to be gutting an oscillating desk fan and building a Matias Wandel style one, which might work for you too. Maybe fitting it horizontally so it sucks up towards the ceilig with a v or x-shaped deflector above it so you can get it nice and tight to the ceiling to minimise the amount of headroom?
Might be worth putting the Dyson filter on the output vent of your small Titan shopvac, putting the vent on your door to get the heat out in summer (but not the noise) and using the power hookup for a different filter setup.
Thank you! Haha I was a bit out of my depth with all the technical stuff but hopefully it made some sense
Did you think to try different air filters. Could it be that the filters that you have now will not let the air move better. Some times the best filters might not be the right filters for the job.
Has anyone mentioned trying to visualise the air flow patterns with smoke? A common technique used in clean room design. Use a smoke generator designed for purpose or, less expensive, a few incense sticks.
I wonder if the main problem is the input being so close to the output, filtering the air in a very local area, rather than having a ‘sweep’ of air from the dirty area to the filtration unit. That issue would also apply to a shop bought unit.
don't let it put you off ... this is how I do things you will get there in the end these bathroom fans are pretty hopeless to be honest . ideally you want one of those ducted fans if you look on ebay you can pick some up quite cheaply I bought a 6 inch one recently for 30 and it's very powerful yet also quiet because it's a bigger blade it can move more air whilst spinning slower. being a ducted fan you could insulate it in a box to lessen the noise too . have you considered maybe a cabin filter for a car they have a large surface area they aren't too expensive and you could probably just vacuum clean the surface now and again . also the best motor to use with your Dyson filters would be a Dyson motor under 15 pound will move tonnes of air but probably way too loud for what you want . I totally get where your coming from by trying to be a considerate neighbour.
That's a low pressure fan and your filters are for a high pressure vacuum. You just have the wrong filters. You need a less restrictive filter media, like a furnace filter that will allow air to move through more easily. Other than that, it should work just fine. You needed to bench test the flow before you installed it.
no 1 mistake is that you put the fan (that probably is also too small for the job) before the filters so what you are actually doing is increasing the pressure inside the box. the fan should blow air out of the box (hence the extraction) so it should be after the filters and not before. start with that and with a fan with bigger static pressure. to have an indication those filters are designed to work with a dyson vacuum which has a motor probably 10 times more powerful than the fan you r using!!
it is not necessary a fail. You just need to correct some mistakes you made. The filters you used have a lot restriction for air flow. They are designed to be used with powerful impeller fan with a lot of suction. You just need to use filters with a lot more surface area (a lot bigger basically) . They are easier to pull air through. Or use a lot more powerefull motor with impeller (blower) fan, to suck the air through the filters.
good to know a small filter just won't make a difference, maybe a huge one would help?? Gonna get my extraction right first.
Just follow the dust... make your shop dark - no light if possible - and use a strong torch to see the flow of the dust - please move very slowly around or stand still and observe the air and what you are breathing in.... kind regards from switzerland
Verry nice to put up the failed attempt. Thare are so manny succes storys on youtube whare there is no reason to discuss why a diy device like this would fail. I'd say this is one of the most useful contributions. We'll done.
** I'm sure you need to pull air though the filters not push it on to them just flip it round and suck the air though the filter simple and see what happens cost you nothing **
Thanks!
No expert but first bit I would try for free then look and bigger fan or thinner filters
Yeah i would agree think how they would work in the dyson surely they pull air through the filters??
Negligible effect on particle filtration...... Zero effect on cat filtration (and indeed their legs).
My only thoughts are that of others.... Ie, surely the filter medium needs to be in front of the fan, and maybe a bigger fan?
A good video to watch if nothing else!
Thank you!
I had the same issue with an outside extractor,heat loss truly isnt an issue I put one in my small shop and placed a foam filter in front of the hole,no heat loss at all and it captures small dust particles,I'm not an expert in dust control so couldn't give you specified results but you already have the extractor give it a try
Why not run with what you already have, the dust extraction has proved to be efficient. Running it for a short time in the shop via a filter would be a better option and take up far less space.
Air has to flow through... an exit. Otherwise you are just moving air in a dead end box. Open the other end up.
I understand what you're saying but in theory air can move through it because the back of the box isn't sealed. I think as others have said it's a case of the filters being too thick and the fan being too weak, and that the fan is pushing air in to the filters rather than pulling
Too much filter, not enough fan.. need cfm for filtration.. need to be able to pull the entirety of the air in the room through the fan at least a time or two a minute.. otherwise theres no pulling the dust out the air as it is settling.. bet if you took a leaf blower inside the shop itd kick up crazy dust, thatd tell you that the dust mitigation of the air is lacking..
Two fans one to push one to pull you have two filters to much for it add one more it should be fine or just one to pull but me I'd have two my self use a shower one the it can go right out side but the way you made it your going to spend most of your time cleaning it out because the dust will have know where to go try it you never know you mite find it works iv made ones out of old boilers and shower fans never had a problem yet hope this helped and anyone else looking to do it
Air flow through the unit. I built one also and found I had insufficient airflow till I pulled out all but one filter. Try removing a filter then repeat the test.
Pull the air through the filters. Turn your fan around. It should work. Built one similar and it works just fine.
Static pressure is required (not necessarily CFM) to force the air through those filters. They are HIGH resistance because they have a 1-2KW vacuum impeller behind them. You have a what, 100-200W fan. The air resistance around the path to pull air in around the edge of the fan will be much lower than pulling it through those filters. Use a large pleated air filter next and with a large fan. Mattias Wandel's design works well - I made one, struggled for a while to find the correct term to find the filters - "Pleated G4 Filters". You can get away with a single G4 filter but could put a finer filter after the G4 if you wanted and had the static pressure.
There are two types of fans, static pressure fans and air flow fans. Air flow fans need "free air" to operate. Also the filter surface is to small and produces too much air resistance
Oh crap! I was looking for this episode so much. Feel bad for you, but youre such a MacGyver this is just temporary. 👍
What volume of air is going through the extraction unit? If you're only moving a small fraction of the air then you're only getting a proportional amount of dust.
Also the fact that you go from a round pipe (the fan) to a square box is not really gonna help.
That way you will loose a lot of flow rate.
Btw, you didn't loose anything, you gained a lot of knowledge! :)
Nice approach btw!
Thank you
id have said the fan was not anywhere near man enough to drive the air threw them filters and also you could try moving the filters against the fan which might have helped
Think cooker hood that uses filters and how that works .mine pulls the air and i think the fan is not upto the job ,its looks like the one in my bathroom
Hi Although the fan is probably underpowered the one thing that stands out is were is the cleaned air output?
it is easier to pull than to push try mounting the fan to pull air through the filters rather than push, also you only need one filter.
two create far to much resistance.
Have you ever checked out Mattias Wandel videos on making your own air filtration systems from wood and reclaimed parts from washing machines?
Like your way of approach
Compare by getting a cheap box fan from any big box store and put a single furnace filter on the front of it.
If you can reverse the polarity on the fan so that you can pull air through the filters or flip the fan around your filter will work. I think you can create a vacuume in the box. Don’t give up on this if like to see you make it work. Your so close I think this will work. Look at how people clean the air in grow tents for hydroponic systems. This is very similar and will give you a good reference.
your fan is too small its designed to catch air not push it , try using a normal 24in fan it will push enough air around
Hi. I'm a newbie to this channel and have been impressed with the content of your vlogs and project information. For my penny worth of icontribution I use an old cooker hood extractor fan and filters to clean the air in my work shop.
I would try having the fan suck the air through the filters rather than blow it towards them.
The Woodpecker (Alain Villancourt) also built his own air filtration unit. But he could probably fit three or four of your shops inside of his so his design was pretty big. You could still pick up some ideas and make an improved v2.0 of your own. Happy weekend, Keith!
Thank you!
can you try this again? All the videos are using box fans that you cant seem to get in the uk
I have the Jet air filter, and the filter is basically a thick fabric bag in front and the fan behind to suck the dusty air into and through the bag filter. In your instance for a quick test, I'd say take out those Hepa filters, and just secure a tight knit sweater over the front of your fan. it will probably work much better.
Seems there is a gap in the market for a compact air filter unit for hobby workshops
Just buy the 300 pound unit. It's better to overpower than underpower.
Why are you using 2 filters? Are they for different particle sizes? I would agree with other comments that the air should be drawn through the filters not pushed through them. I think from the video that the box is open at the air outlet, which it should be of course. It’s all about air flow and fan capability. You need a large air flow. You should design the system so that the volume of the air in the room passes through the filter in a defined time, say 15 mins, that is getting towards 100 cubic meters per hour, which is quite a lot. The filters add resistance to the air flow so they need to be taken into account when sizing the fan. If the filters cater for different particle size then the large particle filter should be first in the air flow followed by the small particle filter, because the small particle filter will also trap the large particles! The box cross section is square and the filters are round, as is the fan, so there is likely to be turbulence in the box, which reduces throughput of air. A laminar flow is better; so try making the path for the air in the box circular and the same size as the filters and fan. Why not put the fan and filters close to each other? Lastly I would suggest that the filter should be positioned where the particles are generated. I assume that the particles fall to the ground under gravity. I think your measurements with the unit turned off demonstrate the rate at which they dissipate to the ground, where else can they go? So that could help modelling the system and determining the capability of the system. The cleanliness of your workshop will also be influenced by its shape, the objects in it and draughts. It’s a very difficult problem to solve. I hope my comments help you get a better solution.
Thanks very useful and some great ideas here - much appreciated
Lol there's some nobs on here today,You tried and failed I suggest the rutlands filter it's about £140
At the min,there right about the fan being under powered,but hey ho who cares I love your videos mate I got rutlands one,but only because it was bought for me,keep it up mate
Haha aren't there always! I'd love a Rutlands one but can't fit it in sadly
I don't think the fan position affects anything. Basically the same amount of air has to go in one end and out of the other and the only thing making this happen is the fan. The fan you have used is designed to pull air from a bathroom and out into open air and normally the only restriction would be the pipe through the wall. Put in a filter and you add way more resistance than the fan was designed for. There is a clue in its description as well. A fan designer once told me that silent fans ALWAYS move less air than the same sized noisy one, the difference comes from the blade design and the power consumed. Sound is moving air so less moving air = less sound. Solutions are either to decrease the resistance caused by the filters or to beef up the fan. I would change the fan. A push-pull arrangement might work, but might also give some strange effects if one fan starts driving the other.
forgot to put - filter before fan is always better as it stops dust clogging up the fan
Those hepa filters are too much for that fan. You either need a more powerful fan or downgrade the filters. Plus, you're doubling up. Pulling air through will also help immensely. When you push the air, it's going to hit those filters and bounce back. So nothing will go through it.
Thanks
Just reverse the wiring on the fan so it draws air through the filters and not try and push it
So, two basic issues: 1) vacuum cleaner filters are designed for high velocity/low volume of air. That little bathroom fan can't generate nearly enough flow to get the necessary pressure drop across those filters. 2) As previously mentioned, that bathroom fan is just way too small...don't know the total volume of the shop, but it would take ages to circulate all of the air in the shop through that little fan. You'll have much better success using high quality furnace filters and a box fan.
2 small filters back to back and 1 small fan was never gonna work, try watching Matthias Wandel's videos on air cleaners, he uses furnace filters that have 20-50 times more surface area and therefore less restrictive, also a much more powerful fan.
You could probably fit a box fan with a furnace filter in the same height as the one you made.
I’m just about to make one myself. I’ve got a particle monitor, a voc monitor, an air purifier and an extractor fan. I’m going to test which one does the most for my small 3.6m by 2.4m workshop
Hi Keith, I think past of the problem is that the fan isn't powerful enough. But probably more important is that the filters are to small. A filter provides a lot of air resistance, so you need a larger surface area to compensate for that. In your case the filter has about the same surface area as the fan but I'm guessing it has to be at least two or three times a much.
Thank you
You'll need a bigger, & stronger fan to make the unit more efficient.
Firstly, that tiny extractor can't have very much CFM even without resistance. Secondly, those filters are designed for vacuum cleaners which are capable of producing far higher pressure differential to pull large amounts of air through relatively small filters. If you want to optimize the full airflow capability of that extractor, use a large surface area of filtration. I would recommend making the entire box out of filter material and having the extractor pull air into it so that it exhausts cleaned air.
If you can afford the space, I recommend a larger fan inside a box made from furnace air filters. I use a box with 4 sides made from 20x20 cheap filters with the bottom being wood for support and the top being a shroud for a fairly quite 18" shop floor fan inside of it. I don't have a dust meter, but using a bright flashlight to illuminate the dust, I estimate that with the unit running after 4 hours, the dust level inside my entire house was reduced by about 90%.
Use a vent axia 6" standard range fan they are the strongest ones ! :)