Do audiences even think of CINEMA as an ARTFORM anymore...or just another EVENT?!?
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- #cinema #cinematicarts #auteurs #movietheaters #directors #movies #moviegoing
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moviebusiness,boxoffice,barrydiller,oscar,theoscars,oscarbait,movietheaters,
I never thought film was art until I saw David Lynch’s Blue Velvet in the theatre. I walked out of that movie and it changed my perception of movies and of what they were capable.
Had this exact experience after watching Pink Floyd’s The Wall on a massive cinema screen when I was aged 12… 😮
I think there is another reason films are set in the past. It's hard to justify characters going to meet someone for a little chat when everyone has cellphone, it's hard to justify character not knowing something when it can be googled right away. Think of the movies and how many scenes you have of people just going somewhere to talk to someone or to check something. It weird because sometimes you get a movie set in modern times but writes pretend this problem doesn't exist and everyone acts like it's the 90s.
Also just a random thought. Most modern movies make me Feel smarter... because everyone in them is stupid while older movies actually Made me smarter by providing something of substance.
Came here to say this. Also, most people are unhappy with how things are going in modern times, and don't want to be reminded of it at the movies. I don't know what the stats are, but how many people during the Great Depression flocked to movies ABOUT the Great Depression?
Great subject Rob. I remember watching Tarantino's early films in my mid teens during the 90s, and I suppose it was an education in watching films. It really is what started my love of cinema. Never realised until now. Thanks Rob and happy birthday.
Rob, thank you for your Robservations. This is truly my new favorite go to for movie talk ect... i put it on at work. Helps me through the day.
Awesome show as always, Rob! When I was younger, I was pretty much consumed with Hollywood releases, and things changed for me when I saw Peter Greenaway’s The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & Her Lover theatrically. Now when I saw it, I went to see it because I was just curious of what all the hubbub was over the NC-17 rating, and I came out of that theatre like my eyes had been peeled. Oh man, the world of cinema just opened up in a HUGE way in front of me with that, and I credit that for actually going to a theatre and seeing it on the big screen. This was something that was totally new for me- and definitely transformative.
The one good thing about Romulus is that it has given many viewers a newfound appreciation for Alien 3 and Prometheus. Two films that I absolutely love!
I saw the 'Wizard of Oz' in a theater last night. Had only seen it on TV. Loved it. Whenever I watch that film, I am in wonder when I think of what they were able to achieve in the late 1930's... I'm still waiting for a film that is made 'today' that we will still be watching in 85 years.
~ around 24:00
Whenever I watch an older movie (I consider older any movie that's older than the '60s) I don't watch it like a normal movie, my mind goes to a different "setting" and I perceive said movie as a figment of history. Not because the movie itself was historic (like Cleopatra), but normal day to day movies.
As you said, eveything about those movies was different: clothes, acting, lighting, direction, editing, etc... So when I watch those movies I don't watch it like it's a new movie, I try to capture what wasn't intentionally captured, the history of that movies' era.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a nobody when talking about movies, but if watched Metropolis like I watch Bad Boys: Ride Or Die, I would always think any movie that's 20 years old was just cr*p.
The fun thing about doing that is that you can do it with basically any movie you want (even Bad Boys: Ride Or Die, lol), because you're watching a slice of that era.
Anyways, I just wanted to share my "little secret" to find older movies more palatable when it's something far from my previous movies' experiences.
I didn’t like Le Samouraï but I’m interested in watching the 4K criterion release…maybe a rewatch will make me adore it.
…Love what you do Rob when it comes to your opinion of life and movies, these words may not mean much but I truly cherish these days and moments as a fan of film and a wanderer in life.
Every one has a story to tell
it’s up to us to open our eyes and experience what life has to offer.
cheers to another episode!!
-
That's very kind of you say. We're all in this together after all.
There is room in cinema for art and popcorn and everything in between. Citizen Kane to Flash Gordon. Romulus is somewhere in between
@@topoulos100% - Rob forgets this is show business not show friends. It’s always been a well established fact that the art movies get made off the back of popcorn movies. The problem is that art movies are now loosing so much money and the popcorn movies aren’t doing much better. The only place for these movies that makes economic sense is streaming.
Art films never made much money and they played in small independent theaters in major cities who only showed art house and foreign flicks. The indie boom was short lived and the star directors that came out of it were more critical Darlings than big money makers.
"The Insider" would never open in a theater today. One of my favorite films.
I don’t think the majority of ticket buyer ever thought about it terms of art. They just thought Casablanca was awesome and saw it five more times because TV hadn’t been invented yet
Keep up the thought provoking content. Thank you for exposing the lack of substance in these movies
Alien Romulus is killing it at the box office as it should. Too bad you didn't like it. Many do. And the practical special effects are amazing.
A wise man once said “it’s not show friends it’s show business”
Malick's The Tree of Life is a masterpiece 👌 Seminal theater experience that changed my life
Similar to your story with your college girlfriend, when I watch movies with my dad he often comments on the old cars and setting which used to bother me. I felt he didn’t really care about the story, but often times he understood the plot better than I did.
I've been watching your channel for 3 months now and have learned so much. Thank you for what you do and I'm happy to have gained more knowledge about my favorite hobby.
Seconded: Taste of things is great!
If you grew up in the 80’s watching Doctor Who, you can watch any and all low budget British sci-fi television, lots of it was shown on local PBS television stations. I am still a fan of Blake’s 7’s Jacqueline Pearce and Josette Simon. ❤
Stalker is excellent, sometimes it is a little too slow for its own good, but everyone needs to watch it. So poetic and atmospheric.
In 1990, at age 13, I was not betrayed by Caligula..
16:00 - absolutely spot on! The Alien 3 Assembly Cut and its docus are a total must-watch!
@15:05 you mean.
A24 and neon releases have been the most consistent original movies distributors in recent memory they take some big swings not all are hits but I appreciate the attempt
When I saw the title I was going to write an angry comment about Rob being out of touch. But having watched the article I have to agree. I was never taught to read the subtext of a movie I just figured it out for myself. My daughter just finished English lit and a huge part of the course is understanding subtext. Modern movies do feel like they lack subtext, and good character development. However we should never forget that those of us who can read subtext are in a minority, most people just want explosions. But for me the best action movies have both. One of the big things about the MCU was good characters doing things that you could recognise. This is what phase 4 is missing.
Cinema is now a curious but unpalatable and monotone amalgam of a themepark for (adult) infants, an Orwellian lecture hall for (adult) infants and a soulless reheating apparatus.
I do'n consider modern day cinema to be cinema at all anymore (at least in the classical pré-2010-ish sense)
Have a great weekend, dear Uncle Rob, and fellow connoisseurs. :)
Planet of the Vampires is awesome, Bava certainly knew what the hell he was doing with that one- and I tend to think James Wan was influenced by that with some of what he did with the Aquaman sequel.
Do you believe 'ALL THAT JAZZ' begats 'PURPLE RAIN?' - James D Watkins
once a product is created for the purpose of earning profit, it ceases to be a true expression of artistict integrity. art is about releasing one's inner pain upon the medium, not putting butts in seats.
William Sadler, agent Sloan in DS9
Suprised to here you mention Gaiking, Always a great anime. Also your Chinese pronouciation is better than most.
Hey Rob
Theirs a good movie, not very long but good called The Red Balloon I'm sure you have heard of it. I've always like that film since watching it several times in grade school in the 80's
I'm here to vouch for your literary recommendations. I just finished A Secret History by Donna Tartt - I've had it on the list for a while, ever since I first heard you mention it. And you were right: solid novel. I enjoyed it a lot. Only thing I'll say is that now that I'm older and a lot further removed from my own college years, maybe the book doesn't have the same impact on me now as it probably would have had, had I read it in college. I also think I was expecting the "unreliable narrator" element to factor more into the plot - perhaps play some part in the final reveal - but it didn't seem to (unless I missed it). But yeah, endorse the recommendation. Keep them coming.
Regarding the Bond film recommendations: I'm going to actually disagree with you on this one. For someone who only knows the Craig era Bond films, I would actually recommend that they check out Dr. No before any of the subsequent Connery films. I think the overall minimalism serves it quite well - it's one the things that's made it age the best. And you cannot beat these three elements, even by today's standards: Jamaica in 1962 as a location, shot on film - just beautiful to look at; and Connery and Ursula Andress, each in their physical primes - arguably never again looking as good. Those three elements carry the film a lot. Everything in the film just looks good. Plus it has still arguably the most cold blooded scene in Bond film history: The "You've had your 6" scene - arguably the only time in the film series that the filmic Bond went harder than the literary one, as this scene wasn't in Fleming's original novel. Now I wouldn't disagree that From Russia is the better overall film, but the visuals and aesthetics aren't nearly as strong.
Regarding the main topic: I enjoyed Tar a lot more than I thought I would. But I can't say I'm surprised that it didn't do big business. As good as that film is - as good as it was ever going to be - you're asking a lot of the mainstream audience when you ask them to come out and see it. The pitch is that it's a fake biopic of a classical composer who's also a lesbian. And it's over 2 and a half hours in length. I'm not surprised that people didn't show up for it - I never expected that they would.
What I am somewhat saddened by - and this year is probably the year when the realization hit me that cinema as an art form is done - is seeing The Bikeriders flop like it did. It's easily the best film I've seen this year, and it has all the elements that we've been told that audiences are craving for: An original film, non-IP; a genre film done seriously, and not in a pretentious way; apolitical; nostalgic; populist; loaded with movie stars; real, authentic, no CGI. And just a solid story, well told. All these things and the movie does no business. And then you have pure shit like Twisters, Deadpool and this Romulus atrocity do more in their opening weekends than The Bikeriders did in it's entire run. When that is the state of cinema, it is done.
Blakes 7 played in a Canada when I was a kid. And you are right, the series finale WAS nuts.
Hello Rob, I read THE BIG GOODBYE, CHINATOWN & the final chapter in Hollywood’s golden era, whilst travelling in Nepal & Japan. Incredible accomplishment 👍
Thanks 🌟 gonna check some out out. 👍📯☀️🍀
Tell about those unfamliar old movies, I always try to check them out, inspiration wellcome :)
I think we do, whether most of us call it art in our heads or not. I think the bigger issue is that the corporations who own all our favorite stories do NOT think of movies or cinema as art, but rather product.
Rob is Having a Difficult Time Accepting a Simple Fact...You Got Old, So did All of the media that Aged with You. Your point of view, your opinions, the "way you watch movies", has all Aged right along with you. As a fellow Old Man, it's okay to love the Art We love in the way We love it...let us not ridicule those who do not...Can Not. I have been an observer of your observations since the Collider Heroes days. I consider you to be one of the few treasures I have found on the Internet. Truly. So please let that treasure shine and not be tarnished by the filth of fighting to forget the future.
Yes, I feel like this is largely old man moaning about how he does connect to the movies made now. I am as much as I hate to say it an old man so I kind of get it. While I still love movies both new and old but I know people who can't.
I’m 69 years old. And I’ll be happy to ridicule those who can’t appreciate film as art. Because they’re short attention span Tik Tok nitwits. And filmmakers mistakenly think they are a viable market. And they’re not. Which means movies that I’d like and appreciate generally don’t get made.
Ok still have another 45 so this might be talked about but we cannot discount the fact that a lot of the "cinema" films like tar did not make money because they simply had no screen time . I live on Long Island NY about 30 miles from NYC and had a hard time finding a screen playing tar but Disneyalways has 3 movies playing in every theater for 12-16 weeks . The theaters have some responsibility here as well my local theater has the craziest start times for films horizon a 3 hour western was only playing at 11 am or 10 pm on a weekday making it impossible to see for anyone with a standard 9-5
Modern cinema is so precarious compared to what it was, you'd think with the accessibility of technology and greater education levels the world over, we'd be in a golden age of cinema but it somehow seems to be regressing. I had a wild idea a while back, I can't watch every movie this year but I can watch every trailer, so a few months ago I decided to go down the list one by one and watch a trailer for every film release this year, only a couple days in I nearly quit there's so much garbage it's unbelievable. On the other hand it's made me see film in a whole new light, the vast majority of movies coming out each year are terrible, it really demonstrates how monumentally difficult it is to make a good film never mind a great one, it's given me a greater appreciation of the few great directors we have and more sympathy for all the others who try their best but just aren't quite good enough.
58:33 I can't take a journalist seriously if he says Hollywood nowadays is "too apolitical".
A movie that verbally discusses politics and one that doesn't express it with words but with everything else are one of the same (political.)
The thing is, movies back in the day were political, but they were also cool and meaningful. You can understand the politics part of, let's say, Full Metal Jacket, but it isn't a dumb movie that only wants half of the population's approval.
I'd say 2024 Hollywood wants said approval, instead of making great movies that are revered by what they are, or aren't.
Do audiences today even think? Films are made for Tik Tok nitwits and short attention span Gen Z ers. There are of course exceptions. Alien Romulus is not one of them.
Hey Rob! Part of it is the attention of the viewer nowadays. I’ve caught my kid skipping through slow parts of a movie to only watch action scenes. It pissed me off and I explained you’re missing all the good and meaningful parts of the film🤷♂️
I agree but with that in mind, i can't understand why films today are so long!
I consider myself an almost life long movie fan. Not cinema. I have enjoyed many films at the cinema that were life changing but films like Tar or traditional indie flicks I would wait for the DVD release. Nearly all of those that I did watch at home are in my top 10. Now, if there was a big star like Robin Williams in Dead Poets yes I would go to the cinema, but could I have happily watched that at home? Also yes. Personally I look for a guns blazing big screen experience at the cinema. Dialogue and feely films for me are done at home. Streaming has ruined the money a studio could make on these DVD rental/sales. It’s not our fault, it’s theirs.
An artform? An event? Neither. It's all just content now. Podcast, video game, youtube reaction, Furiosa... it's all just content.
🤗 👍👍...Clobby was reviewing Blake 7..R.I.P. Clobby 😔
Rob, I finally got Furiosa with my Mad Max 5 film collection only on DVD & Spaceballs steel book with swag I'm very excited. 😋🤯😎
yes MIDNIGHT METAL cant wait for it 🤘🤘🤘
It ends with is was based on a trash book aimed at women. It made money because it already had a fan base
Strange Darling is gonna be in my top ten for sure
This coming from the guy who gave good reviews of The Eternals and Matrix 4
Matrix 4? The first hour of that was staggeringly terrible and I couldn't finish it.
Resurrections is underrated. Yes, it's flawed but it has a lot of interesting ideas that make it worthwhile as a purely sci-fi film. Maybe as a Matrix sequel it doesn't work, but as a standalone sci-fi film it's more than worth the runtime. And even with all that being said, it's still the best one since the original.
It`s funny, as a kid watching Blake's 7, Space 1999, The Prisoner, Sapphire and Steel ect..i didn`t really notice the slow pacing until watching later in life. It was just how it was, and some didn`t even have conclution, just mysterys never to be solved.
Hey, Robert, you got any more movie challenges? 😊
27:46 Cereal shout out!
Perhaps you should flip the question to read: "Is there much art in modern filmmaking?" Come to think of it, we could apply that to Hollywood in general. (Cough, cough, The Acolyte.)
when "the message" is paramount the art form of moviemaking is forgotten. the movie moguls of today are so risk averse that they only wish to beat once venerable franchises into the ground leaving a dead corpse with nothing left and then they reanimate it just to squeeze the last bit of money
could the reason why people are not going to the movies because the movies are too damned long. here's another axiom that should be adopted by hollywood if you can't tell the story in 90 - 120 minutes rethink the story
watching Trap instead of Alien Romulus..
I can't speak to Romulus - looks like trash from everything I've seen and read, a lot of that coming from this very channel - but Trap is not good. Adjust your expectations and you might have a good time - just don't expect a coherent narrative that makes any sense.
Did you say "genau" at 2:42? This means exactly in german :-)
Has the average/casual moviegoer ever considered film as an art form, or is that view relegated to industry insiders? Before becoming a film aficionado, I only looked at film as an event/experience and nothing more.
Most people look at film like that. Most films are nothing more than that and this has always been so. It's the 0.25% that called anything remotely like 'art'.
Pretty much. Your average movie goer be them now or the as far back as the 30s saw them as a little escape from their often times shitty lives.
*Absolutely adore these deeper thoughts into movies/cinema,* I enjoy superficial podcasts like Campea don't get me wrong but Campea lacks nuance and deeper understandin. Rob never misses, and Rob reminds us to Genuinely disagree respectfully, no hipocrisy.
🤙🏽🔥🔥🤙🏽
Deadpool & Wolverine was fun but lacked the heart and soul that 1 & 2 had, it had super hearty moments but not the depth of 1 & 2.
Quiet Place day one fell flat, Alien Romulus fell flat although I enjoyed the aesthetic a lot. It was on the level of Alien 3 or lower for me.
Good writin is becomin more and more rare. The less people see movie goin as "cinema" the more the writin heads that way too.
I watch movies to Feel, regardless of genre, less and less movies make you Feel. Allegories and metaphors replaced by copy pasting statements from real life and lines from previous movies.
I was left disappointed in these last 3 I've watched, all for different reasons.
what is the deal with 4K? the worse movie in 4K is still the "worse" movie ever. someone told me he saw 300 where the sweat, clearly seen on the face and so on. why is this so fascinating? is it that important that the sweat (or other details) was super realistic or just looked like sweat? still pictures comparison of 1080p and 4K requires some patient and opinionated scrutiny for "differences". none of these "examinations" for finer details could ever happened when watching a movie, unless in a lowres on yt. even then it is the story that captured the imagination. is 4K just a marketing thing for tech nerds when it is about movies?
It's not art anymore since just about everything is a sequel or reboot or plagiarised.
Movies are made to vanish in a month. Just need to perform in the box office, and that's it. Movies feel like they have no soul because they dont. Early writers had a vision of an idea that they wanted to stand the test of time that thier kids kids kids would watch and enjoy. Studios are a massive issue. Need to push thier message not your own.
First there have always been movies that pushed messages.and second no one who made movies were.thinking about them lasting more than a few months in theaters. Hell a shit load have been lost to time.
Game of thrones is not about adulting it is about assholes fighting for power. It was popular unfinished fantasy book series which got it green lit and it had lots of sex and violence which helped bring people into watch it.
Deadpool and Wolverine is not a movie. It’s a product.
I think intelligent audiences think of movies as propaganda these days. Rightfully so.
Or racist people get offended by everything these days, like race and sex swapping of FICTIONAL characters, not real people
If you watch Hollywood movies yes, but there's a whole world of independent and foreign language cinema out there that isn t propaganda, it's art.
Yes, as The Drinker would say, The Message runs deep in so many new moves now. All the boxes need to be checked these days.
I'm sad to say that this channel has lost some integrity Rob seems to have become somewhat of a grifter and I'll explain that in a moment but before that and more importantly the chat room appears to be only for the chat room. Not only does Rob NOT read ANYTHING from the chat room (he's 100% completely disengaged) but the moderator constantly asks for money so that you can be so priveleged as to get Rob's attention and that's just gross. There are plenty of streamers that engage with thte chat room without money required. A good, maybe just normal and decent, moderator would send interesting thoughts and questions to Rob during the live stream. It seems Rob is more interested in making his point and making money than engaging with the fans. It's just sad. What's more sad is Rob will NEVER see this comment I guarantee he NEVER reads the comment section, apparently he is too godd for the plebs. SMH. I used to like Rob but now he is more a grifter than a proper fan. The typical toxic angry nerd who hates the toys he didn't get for Christmas so he's mad at mommy and daddy. The point I ultimately wanted to make is that Rob, and this is crazy when you realize it, doesn't understand the culture that surrounds artists and the integrity an artist should have by not shitting on other artists. But Rob shits on other artists. That's why he will NEVER become a proper director because the industry doesn't respect directors who don't respect the industry. Sad but true. Oh well, Rob was so close to greatness but his ego is dragging him down. SMH.
No because the industry abandoned art long ago
The problem with today's audience is that they have no idea how insulting films are to peoiple today. Deadpool & Wolverine took people for idiots. Alien Romulus made fans pay for a greatest hits. And that are more instances of movies insulting its public and yet everyone loves them for it. It's very sad.
15:18 … No, it’s about effing over the audience from the previous film and taking huge dump in their fandom. This is the first movie that ever made so violently angry at it that I almost walked out. It’s terrible on multiple levels. Yeah… I’ve read the stories. Yeah… I know the BTS stuff. Yeah… I’ve watched multiple cuts of this dookie fest. It doesn’t get better. It’s hot garbage made by talented people and it’s misbegotten on nearly every level.