You wrote that as if these are uncommon these days. Like every second household at least has the abloy classic core in various locks. Damn even my mailbox has one
@@tomiheinonen460 It is - but it's no longer the lock core used for any kind of secure door. I haven't seen a front entrance door with one in years, but we do have one in our store, it's the lock to the staff toilet. :D
I have been waiting for this particular lock, I knew this old model ABLOY would be somewhat resistant even for you, good job! I've used this lock for decades...
I seem to remember him recommending the modern locks from same manufacturer (Abloy). This is like the minimum standard that is for applications like locking away firewood.
I would love to see you pick or even take apart a old Renaissance style lock even if it's just some remake based off older designs. I don't believe I've seen you do one of those yet. I could of missed it though.
Greetings from the land of ABLOY. Yeah this lock is like the base standard and it is rare to hear of anyone picking locks. Destructive methods seem to be the only solution if anyone ever needs to open a lock without the key. I also hope someone sends you a door from here so you can review if any bypass attacks would be possible because those you have shared videos of wouldn't work on doors here.
It takes a design about a century old to hold this man to 3 mins?? Why arent lockmakers on that right now lol xD LPL usually opens "unpickable" locks in about 10-30s with basic tools.
That's what I've been wondering, too. I think the patents for this lock expired around 1927 so you don't need to get any permissions or licenses to manufacture copies of this lock. Instead, we have the crap that MasterLock and friends put out.
Modern expensive locks: "pretty easy, barely an inconvenience" Smol lock with a century+ old design: "that's a bit tricky, I had to make a custom tool for it myself"
To be fair, its much more difficult to make a good lock that can be mass produced effeciently. That's also what the guy from StuffMadeHere said; he could make his lock hard to pick in large part because he didnt have to worry about it being mass-producable. Even so, it is crazy how this lock is this old, and common locks from today are just worse.
@@TheUnknownFactor 3020C is about 20€, and that's with the cost of labour in Finland. It's just a basic padlock around here, available everywhere. I wouldn't say it's in any way expensive.
The core is good however I'm pretty sure the lock itself could easily be removed destructively in a matter of seconds with something like his double wrench technique in vids 753 and 760 or anyone with a set of bolt cutters
@@petesandberg3957 That tool tensions off of the first disc, this tool tensions off of the last disc. I am not sure if that is why he is using this one, but it is a big difference.
@@petesandberg3957 I think I’ve seen this pick before they designed the new tool with BB. So (I might be wrong) I think this is more a matter of having a tool ready instead of having to create a new tensioning part for the new pick, even if it could be done. So basically a convenience thing.
@@michaelmerritt7406 yes, and destructive methods can be quicker as they would be in this case, and time is often of the essence, so it's a case of "nice mechanism, shame about the body"
@@michaelmerritt7406 On 3020, opposite from key way, is press fitted cap. Cap and whole body is made of brass. I don't think more information is needed for low noise destructive approach. Still, row boat or chainsaw stealing junkies use large bolt cutters.
Also this is the worst lock on Finnish doors, almost all use Abloy and disc detainer type locks. This type of lock is very common on storage lockers and buildings that are 30 years or older
@@AllanSavolainen Also there has been a semi-automatic tool to pick these Abloy locks for a couple of decades. The current Abloy locks are way more advanced than this.
@@Munakas-wq3gp Yep, though I recall it cannot pick old Abloys that have the anti-pick disc. But manual tools are available, but still is more difficult than just about any pin tumbler lock on apartments
Takes to pick: - several minutes - a custom made tool - advanced skill, and trial and error - three hands I'd heard that Abloy locks are top range, and now I've got a quote for that.
Sure thing. Pretty much no one is going to pick that lock because it's not going to be used in an environment where someone that skilled would be involved. They're gonna force the lock or use a stolen key. Duplicating the key from a good enough photograph is very doable and way, way easier than picking. Even that is not typical common criminal level stuff. Also requires carelessness and or a freak accident. Having a stolen key for several apartments plus "borrowing" the front door or storage facility key might enable a highly skilled criminal to make a master key for an entire apartment complex, but -that problem is not limited to this brand -requires some lazy locksmithing to have taken place to be plausible -the "classic" version is outdated by decades anyway and more recent series are harder to work on -any adversary skilled enough would probably think of something easier
@@tonsssedell4318 you can duplicate a classic key very easily, but that's the only lock you can do that with. Modern ones in the field nowadays like exec, sento, protec or easy are borderline impossible, unless you're a master craftsman.
@@Nibblerr actually the older abloy locks (edge, exec) have expired patents, so they're duplicable with the right tools. Sento has patent protection to the year 2026, after that it'll be copyable as well. You can buy a edge key decoder and cutter but they'll cost you, so there's no reason to buy one unless you're a locksmith or a cobbler, criminals have other easier ways in.
@@matiask7633 expired patents mean nothing when manufacturing the key is so hard that it requires its own (expensive) equipment. There's a lot of features in a single key mind you, not just the code itself.
@@InsongWhang More like it is little funny we have such massive high security locks, but so low crime rate. After all the Abloy doesn't protect the window glass one can throw a stone or brick through.
Finland: over 100 years ago they used locks that are still very difficult to pick even today. America: most of our locks can be opened with a spork and a dirty look.
@@jpaugh64 The current Abloy lock I've got in my front door is a modern one and it has about the same number of cores but they're way more finely machined. The grooves in the key are very very small and narrow so someone who tries to break one would need an extremely steady hand and you definitely won't pick it fast. I would say 95% of Finnish houses are locked with Abloy locks.
As most of the commenters have already stated, these cores are abundant in finland, securing anything from post boxes to older front doors. Honestly blew my mind to see on this channel that the lock to my post box is more secure than most door locks in the states.
@@xxkwijiboxx def not wrong. but to be fair 99.9 percent of home intruders and/or robbers have zero lockpick skill. they'll usually get thru a window, forcefully or luck from dumb homeowners leaving it open, or they already cased the victim and/or actually know the victim and know how to get in quietly and quickly. that or they'll just kick in the door and ask questions later. don't ask me how i know this 😂
@@three_dog Do doors open inwards in the states just so that they can be kicked open easier? Would love to see a US cop trying to kick in a Finnish door.
@@janbo8331 i'm talkin about robbers, not cops. cops will bring in like 4 dudes and a battering ram so if they want in, they'll get in - finnish or not 😂 unless we're talkin solid steel doors and frames, that might hold them up a bit. and to my knowledge most US entry doors are designed to open inwards to be compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).
As an interesting tidbit, there's only one "significant letter" in Abloy's name, and it's the L that stands for "Lock factory", and it does so twice: in Swedish and Finnish both. The "Ab" part is for "Inc." (or "Ltd.") in Swedish, the "oy" stands for the same in Finnish. Spelled out in full, the name is "Aktiebolag Låsfabriken - Lukkotehdas Osakeyhtiö", or "Incorporated company Lock Factory - Lock Factory Inc."
The genius of this design is that it's real cheap for the manufacturer to put a lot of discs and false gates into it. No raking or other low skill routes available. So any attacker is likely to force through it, which is good for insurance claims for cheapish things. For securing more expensive things, Assa Abloy has other things.
@@CraftingCake Probably patents + I guess setting up the initial tools for machining the lock would be expensive. It's hard to say but switching to a completely different core than what they use already can't be cheap. And they probably chose their initial core design while this disc detainer was under patent protection
This design is currently considered 'outdated' and no new house or apartment uses these. Mostly these are things like old shack, locker cabinet at the pool or such.
We have been waiting for this in Finland! The lock has Interesting history. For example, there was a big open bounty for anyone to demonstrate practical attack against this. Decades passed and Abloy never had to pay. You don’t see lock manufacturers doing that very often. It took a long time for the first custom tool to appears. It was called Vempele (a gadget) and used by a professional burglar and kept secret. It then took several decades more before tools like the one seen in this video came up.
@@ShadowDragon8685 He could ask, but they'll likely say this isn't a practical attack since it takes so long and requires a custom tool. That's why they didn't pay it off for vempele either.
Correct me if I'm wrong but by the time vempele came out (in the 60s?) it was already unable to pick the newest models. It was still useful because there were probably hundreds of thousands of the older ones in use though.
@@Finwolven so, _they_ decide when the bounty is paid? That's a bit suspicious to me. That sort of thing seems like it would be better done by registering the bounty with some kind of long-lived law firm and is decided by a third party.
I had a chance to look around the Abloy factory in Joensuu, Finland back in the late 1980's when I worked there as an English Language Teacher. I still use Abloy padlocks to lock my bike. Amazing locks!!
@@okim666 I use to work there once a week as a TEFL Teacher. I only saw the front gate and security area and then the class room. I was shown around the factory by one of the students/empoyees one time and saw how lock barrels and keys are paired up. He was also the designer (I think) of the locks that are fitted to telephone kiosks (remember those?) in America.
Sadly not everything that Abloy sells meets this high standard. That said, not much of it meets the high standards of Master and Kwikset here in the US… 🤣
We used these in the Finnish Army to lock our personal lockers. One evening, when we got back from weekend holiday, one of us had forgotten the key to his lock. So he spent at least an hour beating the lock with an entrenching shovel and eventually got the lock broken and open. :P
Maybe someone or someones got stupider by the time going by. When I was in army there was a spare key for every lock in front desk drawer(päivystäjä). It was very common almost every sunday when soldiers came back to barracks and someone had forgot their key. And if I remember correctly there was also master key for that set of locks.
Happened also for me in Riihimäki. I used thick and long bolt and smashed it with a big showel. It took a while untill the bolt got bend but still managed to break the lock. After that I went and got a cheap chinese lock.
Always nice that he includes his viewers when he says that, "I think WE just got this open". It really makes me feel like I'm accomplishing something with my life.
@@squidcaps4308 That's actually true in some cases. We're potentially funding his decision to purchase new and unusual locks with ad revenue. Also, he buys some locks just to share with us. If we didn't watch, he'd pass them by.
@@aserta It is not really Retro i.e. deliberately made to look like old. It just has been in continuous manufacture. It is a go to lock when I've needs such a lock as it is relatively secure and affordable. around 20-30 €, you can get three for the sane key at 70 €. Newer designs are aboy 50 € a piece.
If i remember right the newer models iloq and excel are hybrid keys? So they're working by 50% mechanical and 50% electronic control principal. If LPL cracks them open im done.... 😂
Abloy is an absolute legend manufacturer here in Finland, and probably Sweden also. Knew these old ones would do really well against picking. Thank's for finally doing one :)
@@huxleypig69 True, but as you know something like protec2 seems like its no point trying to pick unless you do that as a sport. Even locksmiths probably would resort to just destroying and replacing it.
I'm willing to bet this is about the securest lock I've seen on this channel yet, at least as long as we don't consider destructive entry. And then the design is old enough that you might find some scattered on the ocean floor around the Titanic - let that sink in. Imagine this type of core in something like a big Squire lockbody, and the ship would've sunk at its pier because it's too damn heavy.
Actually no, there were at least two that he wasn't able to open. One was with a wonky backward key with a slot, that leaves no access to pins for a picklock, and good old Gerda door lock. Out of those that he did open, the hardest one was something like half a year ago, a small changing room lock that he spent I think around 5 minutes on.
There’s a couple old videos where he got a bunch of locks from Bosnian Bill that he couldn’t open, LPL got a few of them but a bunch eluded him. Fun series.
I bet the company is going to be inundated with many MANY orders for their locks thanks to this video :) I wonder if the very expensive Abloy PL362 will be making an appearance at some point.
Maybe... they'd have to find the company first. And also it's just a kind of game, on a certain level... it's often said that few people pick locks. So to be secure it's presumably more important to be secure against bolt cutters no? Or spanners... look how many viewers this video got. Lockpickinglawyer's video forcing a lock with two spanners got 30 million views so far. (Talk about dining out on a story... I use adblock so I don't know if his videos are monetised, but if they are he could literally be dining out on that story for a long time!)
ASSA ABLOY is one of the most well reknown lock companies. they make very well designed and pick resistant locks, but they're relatively unknown in the US outside of the locksport community
@@tsuchan Abloy classic core is exactly at that level, it is complex enough that no one bothers to pick them so it is all about mechanical strength. That little classic is quite weak as a lock but the places it is used is, gates to non governmental property, lock for a diesel tank on a farm, your locker at work... Things that don't hold anything very expensive but if someone does commit a crime.. the lock or things around the lock are visibly broken so insurance is going to be easy... Pragmatism for the win, no need to use expensive measures for the low probability of being a target of a crime. In fact, in those cases it is wise to have the lock to be the weakest link, that means only it is damaged and not things around it. One of the most common attacks is to widen the doorframes. Hydraulic jack, few two-by-fours and a small crowbar. Makes relatively little noise, may leave only slight damage that isn't visible from 50 meters away.
I think this has to be one of the most impressive cores I've personally seen here on LPL, especially for being a design that's over 100 years old. Bonus points for no mass-produced picking tool being available as well.
Reminder: Security through Obscurity is only secure as long as it _is_ obscure. Lemme paint you a scenario: Abloy retro series 1904 padlock-cores proliferate widely because they get a fully-deserved reputation as no-selling low-skill attacks and laugh in the face of traditional picks. As a result, the knowledge of them proliferates amongst the subset of humanity interested in lock-defeating techniques; consequently, mass-produced picking tools ideal for defeating Abloy retro series 1904 padlocks become comparatively cheap and widely available. Your obscurity is gone, leaving you with only the inherent security of the padlock itself... Which, frankly, seems _substantial_ since a 3-minute pick-time for the LPL is good for a frickin' top-shelf PacLock! Build this design out of some hardened steel with some extra-hard "no, eff your drill bit!" spinners and some kind of tungsten-carbide shackle, and you have something suitable for securing genuinely important things.
@@ShadowDragon8685 Uhhhh, this lock is not obscure. Like at all. It's literally one of the most common cores used in Finland and there are even better versions of it available. Remember, this design is about 100 years old so Abloy have had plenty of time to develop it further so there are padlocks with proper lockbodies and this core and later versions of it are used on nearly every door in Finland.
@@TeKaMOTO The obscurity in this case isn't that no one has heard of the lock, it's that there isn't a purpose-built and mass-produced tool for defeating this design of lock. Contrast this with common pin-and-tumbler locks which can be attacked with printed pieces of steel costing as little as $0.25 at your local pawn shop.
Yay 🇫🇮 This is a very common lock in Finland, often securing shacks, storage boxes and the like where the main purpose is to keep honest people honest. Determined intruders will go around the lock, destructively. Not the cheapest one though, 30€ at the local hardware store, but it'll last you a lifetime, and is apparently also quite secure.
I have the Abloy 340 on my storage in the basement. I don't expect the lock to get cut, I more expect the hasp that it locks into being broken loose from the wood.
And that's exactly what this lock is it is a reusable tamper seal, easy enough to break if you wanted to break it but then again the thing it is securing is probably easy enough to break/steal if you wanted to. Because this lock will absolutely keep out pretty much anyone who isn't going to just outright destroy the thing
Lock picking lawyer picked the Abloy! GG Btw at the shop we saw the worst safe door ever I could flex it and it had a poorly made tube lock (union "safe" company) I think it's the one you reset the combo with plastic sheet
I must say I am impressed. Even with a specialized tool, that is beyond the skill of most pickers. It's definitely beyond mine. You could use this lock in lieu of any Master of similar size.
"Not a high security LOCK, while the core is very unlikely defeated with non-destructive method" Probably means that the lock can be relatively easly defeated with destructive method because of lower quality metals used.
The lock itself is probably not well made, you could probably take a medium size rock and break it open. The core is a different story. It's so old he had to make a custom tool
He said "Not a high security lock" meaning that the lock itself is easily destructible. He was actually praising the core saying it would require a very skilled picker to defeat it non-destructively
I'm Finnish and every door has had a robust abloy lock since forever. Also everyone owns these like the one in this video. I remember visiting USA in 2006 and people had house locks weaker than my bicycle lock in Finland. Ridiculous. Why a safe country has great locks and in the US ppl basically use diary locks on flimsy doors.
Mainly because us Americans are cheap and lazy, and it's easier to get insurance claims when people decide to break in, so nobody bothers much getting better protection except the smart and not lazy people.
Finns are generally really proud of this - which in any real sense is a - unpickable lock. Of course you can pick it with the tools and skills, but hey c'mon. This lock design should be the one to use on every lock created. I've never understood why it isn't.
I think the pride comes with a cost. Although it is common in some countries, the core is expensive for no good reason. It is fairly simple and cheap to make (the core at least). But yes, it is hard to understand why anyone would make any other design but this. Chinese (I assume chinese) make copies of the core and discs which are exactly the same and difficult to tell apart, but only for the old ones like this afaik.
@@gearloose703 I agree 100% that it's hard to understand why every Chinese lock is not just a mirror perfect copy of older Abloy designs. All the patents have expired worldwide even for the Abloy Protec (the first generation model, not the Protec 2 yet) and anybody could just copy the whole design and sell decent locks for cheap. Even the Protec core uses mostly stamped parts so it would be easy to manufacture with modern machines - you just need a stamping machine accurate to about 0.1 mm.
It is the original disc detainer design and well 100 years hasn't diminished the inherent benefits of disc detainer as non spring loaded design. It still 100 years later take manipulating each disc individually to manually place them in gates. Add even modicum of false gates and it gets tricky. Even without false gates it takes custom turning tool, instead of wavy bit of steel. With pin tumblers one has to go to great lengths to make the lock not be trivial to pick, where as disc tumbler is inherently non trivial to pick. one can't just smack the discs and have them jump to gates like pin tumbler pins. What I don't get is why people still bother with cheap pin tumblers. The patents of Emil are half a century expired and it isn't inherently more expensive to make disc detainer. You can stamp the discs on a stamping line and the lock body is drilling round hole in block of metal plus the cut for the side bar to sit/jam at. It doesn't take exotic difficult machining operations to make. After all it was designed to be reasonably easy to produce with early 1900's machining equipment. Most complex part is the disc housing core and even that ain't that complex to machine
Locks aren't really designed to keep people from picking them, because most locks can be broken rather quickly, quicker than it takes to pick them even. You could have the worlds most unpickable lock, and its material strength would still be its major weakness. You also balance practicality of size and strength with cost. For the most part, locks are designed to ward off sudden opportunistic theft, and make it just hard enough that most people could risk getting caught trying to either pick or break the lock.
These are the regular locks from my childhood. Really funny how this hopelessly obsolete design is still so effective. Nowadays the standard are Abloy Exec or the newer Sento locks, haven't seen one picked yet legitimately.
Finally the Abloy lock I've been wanting to see for years! Here in Finland it's the most common core in our door locks, especially in detached houses. Good to see our doors are slightly more pick-resistant than what most of the world has!
Been looking for this video ever since I found the channel a couple of years ago. I use this lock on my garage and wanted to try and pick it but couldnt. Now I dont feel as bad about it!
In this case, yes-but not necessarily in the general case. LPL has opened plenty of locks for which he's needed to make a custom tool that _I_ could both fashion and use. It still required a custom tool, though.
It took him 2:25 minutes, a special tool that he made, and years of experience to open it. I'm impressed with that lock. Some destructive atacks would be more effective to open it, and that is what gets me curious. How resistant it is.
@@NeverSnows That is 100 yrs old model. Abloy has much stronger ones and also that classic is easiest core to pick. (The original classic was easier, after 60's it was improved.) Waiting to see LPL to pick the latest models.. Likely a long video.
I would love to see a video about your creation of tools. This is very cool to see in operation, but to know the process of designing a tool like this and reverse-engineering around a picker's need would be great.
This lock and the key are extremely nostalgic to any Finnish person with the lock being around for decades and its still used in my peoples lockers, storages etc.
This is a lock we lock our woodsheds with in Finland, low value targets. It's an lock that keeps honest men honest. For serious padlocks check out the PL362 with Protec2 core.
That phrase "keeps honest men honest" always bothers me. A truly honest person wouldn't go after someone else's belongings, so there's no reason to "keep" them honest. More accurate is it keeps a lazy person out.
@@RelativeRelativiness as another commenter said 90% +/- of finlander's have one of these guarding their lawn mower because this is a relatively cheap lock and good luck getting into it non-destructively, you have two choices for picking this lock option one buy a $300 tool from I believe his name is Matt Smith, option two is custom make what is effectively and identical copy of the tool that Matt Smith sells
Are there any other Abloy disc cores, that you could pick on camera like this Classic? I know some of the latest high security ones are.. exceedingly difficult, to put it mildly. Is there anything interesting in-between?
I kind of want this now, even though I have nothing to lock up currently -- I just like the design. Maybe having a decent lock for lockers would make me get off my butt to go to the gym...
In Abloys native land (Finland) this type of a pick was called "Vempele". Very few were able to use back then, but it had likely been used in bank heists in the past... The padlock version, of course, could be more easily broken physically with numerous tools...
There's so many reason why I love this video. The lock looks so good and the fact that it's design is ages old gives it a sort of Dwarven ruins feel. On top of that in order to open this you need the LPL special: a Dwarven looking, DIY pick. Aaand on top of that the core surpasses any and all expectations one could have just by looking at it.
@@aqthefanattic7933 When I was in we got the more modern incarnation. Still same classic core, but in PL321 brass body. Seems catalog says they are all chrome plated these days, but ours was in plain brass. It seemed to be important the lock not to be TOO strong, so the staff could cut the lock shackle without too much trouble with bolt cutters. I think happened once in my unit, because someone lost their key in the woods and then the watch officers came with bolt cutters, snap and gave the conscript a new lock. Ofcourse ahemm said conscript had to file for the losing of the key and thus also the lock and got dinged for it from their per diem.
@@aritakalo8011 hey at least you didn't lose a key to a few million € viestikontti. Like our squadleader.. was fun combing the damn forest for few hours with like 100 ppl. Was newer abloy, harder to find than all metallic ones.
@@karhu96 to my understanding the abloy classic core is not patented at all or if it is the patent is long expired because that core is over a century old
@@the_undead Today, yes. Even it's successor, ABLOY Sentry had it's patent run out some years ago. However, as these kind of disc locks were all patented for a long time, while the pin and tumbler locks were not, it's easy to understand why the latter design became more globally dominant, despite being inferior in almost all ways.
@@karhu96 the funny thing that I find about pen tumblers being the dominant design pretty much everywhere except high-end bike locks is the fact that they are much more expensive to produce, if you are just looking for a lock that can function then a disc detainer is going to be incredibly cheap because just stamp the discs
Maybe 85% of Finnish cellar closets are still locked with these. Having had Abloy locks all my life locks in other countries feel pretty much pathetic …
Oh that's because it's a Finnish company and Finnish companies have a tendency to just assume that no one outside Finland is interested in their products, so they don't really even bother trying to expand or import.
@@poowaffle idk if I'd go so far as to say that's the reason. The Assa Abloy conglomerate *does* own companies in America. It's likely that they simply feel the brand recognition of American brands is worth more than better products.
They do sadly put the Abloy name on a couple that aren't very pick-resistant at all, but only a few because people in the know buy their better products. As to why this lock isn't more common in the US … This thing's going to be on the rack next to a $5 Master that claims "MAXXX Security". The average consumer does not yet know the XXX in "MAXXX" means if you buy Master, you're getting screwed.
Most common place nowadays to see these in use in Finland are storage cubicles at the basement of old apartment buildings. Each apartment has its own little storage space, right next to each other, walls made out of thin boards and chicken wire. It is so funny to see these locks on doors while one could get throw the "wall" or door with scissors. This type Abloy was pretty much the only padlock you could by in Finland until late 70's.
If you cut through the wall, it's abundantly apparent that a thief has stolen the goods. Presumably insurance would then be involved and make amends. Whereas if your stuff just "goes missing," insurance will start asking pointed questions, like, for instance, is the stuff that _was_ in this cubbyhole now sitting in a box in your grandparents' farm's hayloft while you defraud the insurance company for its value?
True, going to the summerhouse tomorrow.. 100% sure that I will have to heat the lock of the storage for extended period of time to get the damn thing open and get inside to melt dry
The Swedish defense forces used this lock already in the 1960's and when I entered in the 1980's, this lock was what I was equipped with. Seems like that they knew what they were doing!
These are very common padlocks in Finland. It is made by ABLOY. The name comes from AB Lukko OY where AB stands for aktiebolag (Swedish) and OY for osakeyhtiö(Finnish). They both mean corporation. Lukko is Finnish and means a Lock.
Practicing lock picking in Finland is kind of hard because of this lock design. This particular type of padlock is typical for an outhouse or something.
@@DrakiniteOfficial the type of lock, false sets are found with locks that contain some form of spool pins, false gates are cuts on a locking element that are shorter/smaller than the true gate
@@DrakiniteOfficial The terminology comes from "setting a pin" where false set is setting a pin on location that seems to be set. With pin tumbler locks this is caused by "security pins" which are actually just oddly shaped pins, often spool like or a standard pin with grooves also called a serrated pin. Disk detainer locks work by rotating disks and for those the locations that the sidebar can fit are called gates. A false gate is a gate which has correct width but the depth is not deep enough to fully fit the sidebar. And since disk detainer locks like this Abloy Classic have zero springs, there's no "pins to drop" or anything equivalent because everything stays in the position you set it if you stop moving your tools. To open the lock 9 of the actual code disks need to be turned correct amount (there are 6 options per disk, separated by 18 degrees each for Abloy Classic) and the first and last disk must be rotated equal amount to uncut key. After that the lock opens if you turn the bottom disk in clockwise direction (and all the disks rotate together even if you only turn the last disk).
Those locks are everywhere here in finland. Also used by military on personal lockers. When my army buddy lost his key all it took was a solid hit to the meeting point of the shackle and body with combat shovel and the lock just broke in half.
When I was doing my conscript service in Finland they told not to mess with the locks if somebody lost their key because they had spare keys in some central safe. They just broke the door (which was cheaper to replace than the lock!) and put the lock aside to wait for a new key to be copied from the spare key and gave an another lock with a known key. Maybe the cost of Abloy Classic is finally low enough that it's cheaper to destroy the lock instead of the locker door.
@@MikkoRantalainen Meillä oli kaikilla vara-avaimet yksikön vääpelillä ja juuri lomilta tulleina sunnuntai-iltana ei ollut muuta vaihtoehtoa, ei muutakun häväriä tekemään koko lukosta.
@@HokkeliBOY Meillä Vekaralla tuollaisessa tilanteessa päivystäjä rikkoi ovesta saranat, ruuvasi siitä kaapista sen lukon vastakappaleen irti ja kantoi oven jonnekin varastoon. En muista tuotiinko sieltä toinen lukko ja ovi tilalle saman tien vai mentiinkö aamuun asti ilman ovea. Itse en avainta hukannut, mutta tuvassa muistaakseni yhden kerran nähtiin tämä esitys kun yksi sankari onnistui hukkaamaan avaimensa lomalta palatessa. Ajakohta oli siis jossain 1998 tienoilla.
@@SamiNami thats bait to lpl... I can say with certainty he could pick any current lock of any make in under 4-5 mins....never ever seen him fail on any lock. U could mail him one of these 'unpickable' locks if u sure😜
Yes this is a throwaway lock. Core can not be re keyed or opened. IMO it is too expensive for what it is. No point having a good core in a cheap body, but the body is a classic design from a long time ago and I think that is the reason it exists. It is a shame they can not be re keyed because it would be cool to use old locks.
I think these ones are nice to have in places where the intruder would have some time to spent on the premise, like they often are in Finland, for example as locks on summer homes / toolsheds etc. Where determined intruder can just break their way through windows/doors, causing more damage. And the stuff inside usually isn't too valuable. So what you want is a broken lock to show the insurance company. So high pick resistance -> easier to break the 25€ lock then the 100€+ door or window. And as picking is not too likely option -> evidence. Same lock cylinders are used in doors and postal boxes in older houses.
Reason number 1 I have set lock in my summer cabin so loose that you can pry it open with minimum force needed. The door is more expensive than anything I have there so I rather have it crank able with screw driver. If someone wants to get in he will
LPL puts a video more than 1:30... this lock is something special... either is on the hard side to pick or there is uber cool story behind it that makes LPL so excited he has to share it with us (in a most calm voice ever).
I have just found this answer to a Quora question. It is about Reijo Luotolainen, who was a notorious Finnish serial rapist. "Almost all Finnish front door locks are Abloy disk tumbler locks, which are virtually unpickable. Luotolainen was extremely intelligent, and he invented a sophisticated device - vempele - on how to pick disk tumbler locks. He would follow drunken women arriving from night clubs, observe where they would go to their homes, and then check which lights would turn out. He would then pick the main door lock and the apartment door with his vempele, and then proceed on assaulting the asleep woman with an ether-soaked rag, put her unconscious and then rape her. He was able to continue this practice for years since he never left any traces behind - and nobody believed an Abloy lock could be picked (it is still today unpickable witout a similar special device)." The rapist was later knocked out by a woman with a frying pan and apprehended by police.
The tool you were using is called Vempele in finnish witch translated means doohickey, it was invented in 1950s and some criminal gangs had a production of them.
Abloy's the best in the world! The company had a hard time when the patent of their lock ran out - how to make an even better lock mechanism if you already made the best in the biz... :D Big thumbs up for the Lock picking lawyer from Finland! Keep amazing!
![[916] Abloy 341 “Enforcer” Padlock Picked and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oxfUmcMzx08/mqdefault.jpg)
![[916] Abloy 341 “Enforcer” Padlock Picked and Gutted](/img/tr.png)
![[1591] The Replicant: Pocket Key Casting Perfected!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/L5Fus7qbRZM/mqdefault.jpg)
![[552] "Pickproof" Dual Cylinder Disc Brake Lock Picked](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Dd-ZIIcgzPI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[636] Bowley Lock Analysis and Update](/img/1.gif)
1:00 - 3:50 It takes 3 minutes of LPL's time and his own custom tools. That's quite impressive.
Feels like the 3020C is going up in sales :D
The Germans don't make good stuff, The Finns do.
True but it would not last 5 second against a brute force attack
@@Vili.K Wouldn't agree with you there, considering ABUS locks...
@@AlbertZonneveld In which case you would know her chastity belt had been removed!
You can still see these locks in many places around Finland, not to mention that most doors have Abloy locks in them.
I've been waiting for this video, I use these a lot. Happy to see it lives up to it's fame!
The updated versions of this have the last disc also spinning free like the first one so you can't load it
You wrote that as if these are uncommon these days. Like every second household at least has the abloy classic core in various locks. Damn even my mailbox has one
@@ebinwaitee I'm pretty sure that Abloy classic is still the most common lock core in Finland.
@@tomiheinonen460 It is - but it's no longer the lock core used for any kind of secure door. I haven't seen a front entrance door with one in years, but we do have one in our store, it's the lock to the staff toilet. :D
I have been waiting for this particular lock, I knew this old model ABLOY would be somewhat resistant even for you, good job! I've used this lock for decades...
Used these locks when i served the military here in Finland. They give these to everyone serving. Great locks
Fascinating demonstration of skills from the precision engineering legal locksmith!🤣
yay - finally my long ago asked question as to what lock LPL would recommend - we might have a winner!
I seem to remember him recommending the modern locks from same manufacturer (Abloy). This is like the minimum standard that is for applications like locking away firewood.
I would love to see you pick or even take apart a old Renaissance style lock even if it's just some remake based off older designs. I don't believe I've seen you do one of those yet. I could of missed it though.
woah.. the wait is so INTENSE!
I hear "I'm going to insert my tool" and I think back to the April Fools videos LPL made, and how funny those are
Greetings from the land of ABLOY. Yeah this lock is like the base standard and it is rare to hear of anyone picking locks. Destructive methods seem to be the only solution if anyone ever needs to open a lock without the key.
I also hope someone sends you a door from here so you can review if any bypass attacks would be possible because those you have shared videos of wouldn't work on doors here.
That thing is ubiquitous in Finland. :D Some are so old the brass is blackened or turned green.
It takes a design about a century old to hold this man to 3 mins??
Why arent lockmakers on that right now lol xD LPL usually opens "unpickable" locks in about 10-30s with basic tools.
That's what I've been wondering, too. I think the patents for this lock expired around 1927 so you don't need to get any permissions or licenses to manufacture copies of this lock. Instead, we have the crap that MasterLock and friends put out.
Literally the longest I've ever seen him take to truly pick a (non gimmick) lock. If that core was stainless and paired with a better shackle...
If you check out what abloy sells, this is their cheapest and worst lock. If you are willing to pay, you can get really good modern locks from them.
Very impressive. They definitely don't make them like they used too.
Lets meet at the market square! 🇫🇮
WOW.
Modern expensive locks: "pretty easy, barely an inconvenience"
Smol lock with a century+ old design: "that's a bit tricky, I had to make a custom tool for it myself"
To be fair, its much more difficult to make a good lock that can be mass produced effeciently. That's also what the guy from StuffMadeHere said; he could make his lock hard to pick in large part because he didnt have to worry about it being mass-producable. Even so, it is crazy how this lock is this old, and common locks from today are just worse.
OH NOOOOOO!!! Most people agree that my vids are the worst on RUclips. I agree to disagree. Please agree to disagree with the haters, dear cn
@@TheUnknownFactor This was very much a mass produced lock. The core was used in just about all houses, padlocks and so on in Finland for decades.
@@TheUnknownFactor 3020C is about 20€, and that's with the cost of labour in Finland. It's just a basic padlock around here, available everywhere. I wouldn't say it's in any way expensive.
The core is good however I'm pretty sure the lock itself could easily be removed destructively in a matter of seconds with something like his double wrench technique in vids 753 and 760 or anyone with a set of bolt cutters
You know that it's serious if you hear disc detainer core and you see a tool even more custom than "the pick that Bosnian Bill and LPL made"
truth.
I'd like to know why that one wouldn't work.
@@petesandberg3957 That tool tensions off of the first disc, this tool tensions off of the last disc. I am not sure if that is why he is using this one, but it is a big difference.
@@sawchuk519 I thought it was designed to tension off a variety of discs.
@@petesandberg3957 I think I’ve seen this pick before they designed the new tool with BB. So (I might be wrong) I think this is more a matter of having a tool ready instead of having to create a new tensioning part for the new pick, even if it could be done. So basically a convenience thing.
"Not likely to be non-destructively defeated in the field" - that surely is the highest praise from LPL.
Considering how conspicuous and, often, loud nondestructive methods can be - it is. Almost anything can be defeated with enough force.
@@michaelmerritt7406 yes, and destructive methods can be quicker as they would be in this case, and time is often of the essence, so it's a case of "nice mechanism, shame about the body"
Oh don't worry. In the worse case scenario, he has Mrs LPL to cover destructive entry
@@michaelmerritt7406 On 3020, opposite from key way, is press fitted cap. Cap and whole body is made of brass. I don't think more information is needed for low noise destructive approach. Still, row boat or chainsaw stealing junkies use large bolt cutters.
True dat
When a 115 year old core design takes longer to pick than the entire masterlock catalog put together
Sad thing is that once they made extremely good locks like the Master Lock model 19, which are seriously collectable.
Also this is the worst lock on Finnish doors, almost all use Abloy and disc detainer type locks. This type of lock is very common on storage lockers and buildings that are 30 years or older
@@AllanSavolainen Also there has been a semi-automatic tool to pick these Abloy locks for a couple of decades. The current Abloy locks are way more advanced than this.
@@Munakas-wq3gp Yep, though I recall it cannot pick old Abloys that have the anti-pick disc. But manual tools are available, but still is more difficult than just about any pin tumbler lock on apartments
Takes to pick:
- several minutes
- a custom made tool
- advanced skill, and trial and error
- three hands
I'd heard that Abloy locks are top range, and now I've got a quote for that.
Sure thing. Pretty much no one is going to pick that lock because it's not going to be used in an environment where someone that skilled would be involved. They're gonna force the lock or use a stolen key.
Duplicating the key from a good enough photograph is very doable and way, way easier than picking. Even that is not typical common criminal level stuff. Also requires carelessness and or a freak accident.
Having a stolen key for several apartments plus "borrowing" the front door or storage facility key might enable a highly skilled criminal to make a master key for an entire apartment complex, but
-that problem is not limited to this brand
-requires some lazy locksmithing to have taken place to be plausible
-the "classic" version is outdated by decades anyway and more recent series are harder to work on
-any adversary skilled enough would probably think of something easier
@@tonsssedell4318 you can duplicate a classic key very easily, but that's the only lock you can do that with. Modern ones in the field nowadays like exec, sento, protec or easy are borderline impossible, unless you're a master craftsman.
Womp womp go do that yourself neckbeard@@tonsssedell4318
@@Nibblerr actually the older abloy locks (edge, exec) have expired patents, so they're duplicable with the right tools. Sento has patent protection to the year 2026, after that it'll be copyable as well.
You can buy a edge key decoder and cutter but they'll cost you, so there's no reason to buy one unless you're a locksmith or a cobbler, criminals have other easier ways in.
@@matiask7633 expired patents mean nothing when manufacturing the key is so hard that it requires its own (expensive) equipment. There's a lot of features in a single key mind you, not just the code itself.
Nearly 3 minutes to be opened by the LPL.
That's reason enough to praise this lock.
He needed a new generation of the BBaI tool. This lock must be the Messiah!
Plus this is ideal conditions in the field this would be so much harder to pick
I just gained more confidence in my apartment's inside storage shed
Abloy locks are the standard here in Finland. We also have low crime rates. Coincident? Most likely.
@@InsongWhang More like it is little funny we have such massive high security locks, but so low crime rate. After all the Abloy doesn't protect the window glass one can throw a stone or brick through.
Finland: over 100 years ago they used locks that are still very difficult to pick even today.
America: most of our locks can be opened with a spork and a dirty look.
“Spork and a dirty look!” Ha! 😂🤣
Let's see some of Finland's modern designs, though!
@@jpaugh64 The current Abloy lock I've got in my front door is a modern one and it has about the same number of cores but they're way more finely machined. The grooves in the key are very very small and narrow so someone who tries to break one would need an extremely steady hand and you definitely won't pick it fast. I would say 95% of Finnish houses are locked with Abloy locks.
That dirty look tho 😂
@@Perkelenaattori so you are saying i only need 1 tool to get into pretty much any house in finland.
As most of the commenters have already stated, these cores are abundant in finland, securing anything from post boxes to older front doors.
Honestly blew my mind to see on this channel that the lock to my post box is more secure than most door locks in the states.
murricans want people to break in so they can legally shoot em
@@xxkwijiboxx def not wrong. but to be fair 99.9 percent of home intruders and/or robbers have zero lockpick skill. they'll usually get thru a window, forcefully or luck from dumb homeowners leaving it open, or they already cased the victim and/or actually know the victim and know how to get in quietly and quickly. that or they'll just kick in the door and ask questions later.
don't ask me how i know this 😂
@@three_dog Do doors open inwards in the states just so that they can be kicked open easier? Would love to see a US cop trying to kick in a Finnish door.
Wait, wait... only the core had any security to it as far as I could see
@@janbo8331 i'm talkin about robbers, not cops. cops will bring in like 4 dudes and a battering ram so if they want in, they'll get in - finnish or not 😂 unless we're talkin solid steel doors and frames, that might hold them up a bit. and to my knowledge most US entry doors are designed to open inwards to be compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).
I got interested in lockpickin as a kid, but these were the only padlocks we had and ive settled on picking my nose after that.
Yeah, Finland isn't a good place to get into locksports. 😅
"Success! Your nose is now open!"
Lmao same :D
boogie out 1... nothing out of 2...
Same
As an interesting tidbit, there's only one "significant letter" in Abloy's name, and it's the L that stands for "Lock factory", and it does so twice: in Swedish and Finnish both. The "Ab" part is for "Inc." (or "Ltd.") in Swedish, the "oy" stands for the same in Finnish. Spelled out in full, the name is "Aktiebolag Låsfabriken - Lukkotehdas Osakeyhtiö", or "Incorporated company Lock Factory - Lock Factory Inc."
Dead on.!
So... The label on the tin accurately describes the contents.
Nice! Truth-in-advertising!
AktieBolag Lukkotehdas OsakeYhtiö
I am Finnish and I didn’t know this. Thanks for sharing!
I had at one point a Abloy classic key that actually had AB Lukko OY engraved on it.
The genius of this design is that it's real cheap for the manufacturer to put a lot of discs and false gates into it. No raking or other low skill routes available. So any attacker is likely to force through it, which is good for insurance claims for cheapish things. For securing more expensive things, Assa Abloy has other things.
What stops lock companies to fit that core into a beefy body? It it's cheap it could be a great lock.
@@CraftingCake Probably patents + I guess setting up the initial tools for machining the lock would be expensive. It's hard to say but switching to a completely different core than what they use already can't be cheap.
And they probably chose their initial core design while this disc detainer was under patent protection
@@Mythantor 'probably patents' - well no. Patents last about 20 years.
@@CraftingCake This core (and newer versions of it) is used everywhere in Finland. From gym locker room locks to housing to high security locks.
This design is currently considered 'outdated' and no new house or apartment uses these. Mostly these are things like old shack, locker cabinet at the pool or such.
They should advertise this lock as "LPL used words such as "try" "might be" "nope" "could be" "I think" using his own tool"
Thing is - Abloy doesn’t need to advertise.
We have been waiting for this in Finland! The lock has Interesting history. For example, there was a big open bounty for anyone to demonstrate practical attack against this. Decades passed and Abloy never had to pay. You don’t see lock manufacturers doing that very often.
It took a long time for the first custom tool to appears. It was called Vempele (a gadget) and used by a professional burglar and kept secret. It then took several decades more before tools like the one seen in this video came up.
Hold on...
Are you saying that the LPL could potentially claim a near-century-old bounty for this?
@@ShadowDragon8685 He could ask, but they'll likely say this isn't a practical attack since it takes so long and requires a custom tool. That's why they didn't pay it off for vempele either.
Correct me if I'm wrong but by the time vempele came out (in the 60s?) it was already unable to pick the newest models. It was still useful because there were probably hundreds of thousands of the older ones in use though.
@@Finwolven so, _they_ decide when the bounty is paid? That's a bit suspicious to me. That sort of thing seems like it would be better done by registering the bounty with some kind of long-lived law firm and is decided by a third party.
Sounds like the bounty Chubb put out for the Detector in the 1850s.
I had a chance to look around the Abloy factory in Joensuu, Finland back in the late 1980's when I worked there as an English Language Teacher. I still use Abloy padlocks to lock my bike. Amazing locks!!
how was it back then? just asking since i work there now :D
@@okim666 I use to work there once a week as a TEFL Teacher. I only saw the front gate and security area and then the class room. I was shown around the factory by one of the students/empoyees one time and saw how lock barrels and keys are paired up. He was also the designer (I think) of the locks that are fitted to telephone kiosks (remember those?) in America.
Fun fact. I’m gonna say out of limb that 99% of all residential houses and buildings have Abloy locks in Finland 🇫🇮
99% is lowballing it tbh
Sadly not everything that Abloy sells meets this high standard. That said, not much of it meets the high standards of Master and Kwikset here in the US… 🤣
Sounds accurate. Although many buildings are changing to electric locks and those are not always Abloy. (Iloq is quite popular.)
Estonia is also full of Abloy locks.
Thank you Suomi 🇫🇮
@@knghtbrd you have some shit locks in the us
We used these in the Finnish Army to lock our personal lockers. One evening, when we got back from weekend holiday, one of us had forgotten the key to his lock. So he spent at least an hour beating the lock with an entrenching shovel and eventually got the lock broken and open. :P
one of us used 2 shovels to break it, 1 shovel as a hammer and one resting on that lock :D it sounded funny.
Spolleille vaa viestiä ja niiltä voimapihdit. Meni tasan minuutti saada auki :D
I would literally have been killed for that in the place I served a couple years ago :D
Maybe someone or someones got stupider by the time going by. When I was in army there was a spare key for every lock in front desk drawer(päivystäjä). It was very common almost every sunday when soldiers came back to barracks and someone had forgot their key. And if I remember correctly there was also master key for that set of locks.
Happened also for me in Riihimäki. I used thick and long bolt and smashed it with a big showel. It took a while untill the bolt got bend but still managed to break the lock. After that I went and got a cheap chinese lock.
Always nice that he includes his viewers when he says that, "I think WE just got this open". It really makes me feel like I'm accomplishing something with my life.
Just imagine if you never had watched this video, he would've never got it open.
@@squidcaps4308 That's actually true in some cases. We're potentially funding his decision to purchase new and unusual locks with ad revenue. Also, he buys some locks just to share with us. If we didn't watch, he'd pass them by.
❤
I like specifically because of how specialized this tool is, it is actually the truth that we helped him unpick this lock.
Old core yet still far better than modern locks...
old design, everything about this lock is new. It's a "retro" lock. They're made in Finland afaik.
my thoughts exactly!😂
Better by what standard?
@@donaldbrorson4583 Are you new here?
@@aserta It is not really Retro i.e. deliberately made to look like old. It just has been in continuous manufacture. It is a go to lock when I've needs such a lock as it is relatively secure and affordable. around 20-30 €, you can get three for the sane key at 70 €. Newer designs are aboy 50 € a piece.
This ABLOY lock core is minimum security what we got here in Finland. Abloy brand is far most common lock brand in Finland.
Would be awesome to see LPL test the more advanced/newer locks 👌
If i remember right the newer models iloq and excel are hybrid keys? So they're working by 50% mechanical and 50% electronic control principal. If LPL cracks them open im done.... 😂
Abloy is lagging in smart locks but it is the best mechanic lock maker
@@zeizei8475 yeah actually i fell in a rabbithole on this one, it seems that iloq is way too easy to crack. Better just to trust the oldschool ones 😂
@@SIgnoramus you can't pick up iloq. There is nothing to pick up. Especially iloq s50
Abloy is an absolute legend manufacturer here in Finland, and probably Sweden also. Knew these old ones would do really well against picking. Thank's for finally doing one :)
finns are dirty people
This thing required a specialized tool and a bench vise, and took the LPL almost 4 minutes to open it. That’s pretty darned impressive.
the whole of finland just sighed in relief. love to see it give so much trouble - we have these abloys everywhere.
I have never seen one on a door lol. Always a unpickable model.
@@SamiNami not a thing I'm afraid. Abloy have never made anything to this day that can't be opened with the correct tool.
@@huxleypig69 True, but as you know something like protec2 seems like its no point trying to pick unless you do that as a sport. Even locksmiths probably would resort to just destroying and replacing it.
@@Naesil89 Yes, if your Protec2 is getting opened NDE in the field, you have bigger problems, lol.
I'm willing to bet this is about the securest lock I've seen on this channel yet, at least as long as we don't consider destructive entry. And then the design is old enough that you might find some scattered on the ocean floor around the Titanic - let that sink in. Imagine this type of core in something like a big Squire lockbody, and the ship would've sunk at its pier because it's too damn heavy.
Actually no, there were at least two that he wasn't able to open. One was with a wonky backward key with a slot, that leaves no access to pins for a picklock, and good old Gerda door lock.
Out of those that he did open, the hardest one was something like half a year ago, a small changing room lock that he spent I think around 5 minutes on.
There’s a couple old videos where he got a bunch of locks from Bosnian Bill that he couldn’t open, LPL got a few of them but a bunch eluded him. Fun series.
"Let that sink in" , bruh
@@rootenshi I WAS GOING TO SAY THE SAME THING.
@@Miestwin So it's still "about the securest" not THE securest, but ABOUT the securest. ;)
I bet the company is going to be inundated with many MANY orders for their locks thanks to this video :)
I wonder if the very expensive Abloy PL362 will be making an appearance at some point.
Maybe... they'd have to find the company first.
And also it's just a kind of game, on a certain level... it's often said that few people pick locks. So to be secure it's presumably more important to be secure against bolt cutters no? Or spanners... look how many viewers this video got. Lockpickinglawyer's video forcing a lock with two spanners got 30 million views so far. (Talk about dining out on a story... I use adblock so I don't know if his videos are monetised, but if they are he could literally be dining out on that story for a long time!)
ASSA ABLOY is one of the most well reknown lock companies. they make very well designed and pick resistant locks, but they're relatively unknown in the US outside of the locksport community
@@tsuchan Abloy classic core is exactly at that level, it is complex enough that no one bothers to pick them so it is all about mechanical strength. That little classic is quite weak as a lock but the places it is used is, gates to non governmental property, lock for a diesel tank on a farm, your locker at work... Things that don't hold anything very expensive but if someone does commit a crime.. the lock or things around the lock are visibly broken so insurance is going to be easy... Pragmatism for the win, no need to use expensive measures for the low probability of being a target of a crime. In fact, in those cases it is wise to have the lock to be the weakest link, that means only it is damaged and not things around it.
One of the most common attacks is to widen the doorframes. Hydraulic jack, few two-by-fours and a small crowbar. Makes relatively little noise, may leave only slight damage that isn't visible from 50 meters away.
Abloy has been in my country since i was a wee kid, 30 40 years ago. It's just now that everyone is going for cheap chinese locks.
This lock or producer has some legendary status in Finland, so it's nice to see it's not totally bs.
I think this has to be one of the most impressive cores I've personally seen here on LPL, especially for being a design that's over 100 years old. Bonus points for no mass-produced picking tool being available as well.
Reminder: Security through Obscurity is only secure as long as it _is_ obscure.
Lemme paint you a scenario:
Abloy retro series 1904 padlock-cores proliferate widely because they get a fully-deserved reputation as no-selling low-skill attacks and laugh in the face of traditional picks. As a result, the knowledge of them proliferates amongst the subset of humanity interested in lock-defeating techniques; consequently, mass-produced picking tools ideal for defeating Abloy retro series 1904 padlocks become comparatively cheap and widely available.
Your obscurity is gone, leaving you with only the inherent security of the padlock itself... Which, frankly, seems _substantial_ since a 3-minute pick-time for the LPL is good for a frickin' top-shelf PacLock!
Build this design out of some hardened steel with some extra-hard "no, eff your drill bit!" spinners and some kind of tungsten-carbide shackle, and you have something suitable for securing genuinely important things.
@@ShadowDragon8685 Hence why security through obscurity was mentioned as bonus points.
Was about to say about 11 discs? I would believe that's a lot. And yeap that was one serious picking!
@@ShadowDragon8685 Uhhhh, this lock is not obscure. Like at all. It's literally one of the most common cores used in Finland and there are even better versions of it available. Remember, this design is about 100 years old so Abloy have had plenty of time to develop it further so there are padlocks with proper lockbodies and this core and later versions of it are used on nearly every door in Finland.
@@TeKaMOTO The obscurity in this case isn't that no one has heard of the lock, it's that there isn't a purpose-built and mass-produced tool for defeating this design of lock. Contrast this with common pin-and-tumbler locks which can be attacked with printed pieces of steel costing as little as $0.25 at your local pawn shop.
Yay 🇫🇮 This is a very common lock in Finland, often securing shacks, storage boxes and the like where the main purpose is to keep honest people honest. Determined intruders will go around the lock, destructively. Not the cheapest one though, 30€ at the local hardware store, but it'll last you a lifetime, and is apparently also quite secure.
Tru story bro. Kippis!
I have the Abloy 340 on my storage in the basement. I don't expect the lock to get cut, I more expect the hasp that it locks into being broken loose from the wood.
Exactly, this is the low security version we use here in Finland. Most houses and other valuables are locked by better Abloy locks
@aqualung At least mine is :D
And that's exactly what this lock is it is a reusable tamper seal, easy enough to break if you wanted to break it but then again the thing it is securing is probably easy enough to break/steal if you wanted to.
Because this lock will absolutely keep out pretty much anyone who isn't going to just outright destroy the thing
Lock picking lawyer picked the Abloy! GG
Btw at the shop we saw the worst safe door ever I could flex it and it had a poorly made tube lock (union "safe" company) I think it's the one you reset the combo with plastic sheet
My dad has two of these Abloy locks that are older than I am, never thought I'd see this type of lock being picked on the channel!
You should pick more abloy locks, like sento, exec or protec. They should be a good challenge
I must say I am impressed. Even with a specialized tool, that is beyond the skill of most pickers. It's definitely beyond mine. You could use this lock in lieu of any Master of similar size.
Ah, a tool that he and Bosni... Wait, what?
perhaps the friend in the field holding the lock would be Bill
When it has a disk detainer core but LPL doesn't use the pick he and BosnianBill made: My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
But isn't that the ultimate compliment for the lock? It even defeated that tool.
I assume that pick wouldn't work with this old design
but the sales of that lock goes sky high.... if it is even sold....
LPL&BB pick tensions the front disc, Abloy classic needs to be tensioned from the back disc, hence that tool doesn't work on this lock.
@@Arch3r666 It's sold in pretty much all hardware stores in Finland. It's one of the cheapest Abloy offerings. (Priced around 25 €)
>"Not a high security core"
>Takes longer to pick than nearly any other padlock featured
LPL's got far higher standards than I do
I think he was talking more about the actual lock itself, not the core.
"Not a high security LOCK, while the core is very unlikely defeated with non-destructive method"
Probably means that the lock can be relatively easly defeated with destructive method because of lower quality metals used.
I think he means it could be physically defeated much easier than it could ever be picked.
The lock itself is probably not well made, you could probably take a medium size rock and break it open. The core is a different story. It's so old he had to make a custom tool
He said "Not a high security lock" meaning that the lock itself is easily destructible.
He was actually praising the core saying it would require a very skilled picker to defeat it non-destructively
I'm Finnish and every door has had a robust abloy lock since forever. Also everyone owns these like the one in this video.
I remember visiting USA in 2006 and people had house locks weaker than my bicycle lock in Finland. Ridiculous. Why a safe country has great locks and in the US ppl basically use diary locks on flimsy doors.
Mainly because us Americans are cheap and lazy, and it's easier to get insurance claims when people decide to break in, so nobody bothers much getting better protection except the smart and not lazy people.
Finns are generally really proud of this - which in any real sense is a - unpickable lock. Of course you can pick it with the tools and skills, but hey c'mon. This lock design should be the one to use on every lock created. I've never understood why it isn't.
I think the pride comes with a cost. Although it is common in some countries, the core is expensive for no good reason. It is fairly simple and cheap to make (the core at least). But yes, it is hard to understand why anyone would make any other design but this. Chinese (I assume chinese) make copies of the core and discs which are exactly the same and difficult to tell apart, but only for the old ones like this afaik.
Where's that Ryobi....
@@gearloose703 I agree 100% that it's hard to understand why every Chinese lock is not just a mirror perfect copy of older Abloy designs. All the patents have expired worldwide even for the Abloy Protec (the first generation model, not the Protec 2 yet) and anybody could just copy the whole design and sell decent locks for cheap. Even the Protec core uses mostly stamped parts so it would be easy to manufacture with modern machines - you just need a stamping machine accurate to about 0.1 mm.
So... Let me get this straight...
The 100+ year old design of this lock is better than the current generation of Masterlock padlocks.
It is the original disc detainer design and well 100 years hasn't diminished the inherent benefits of disc detainer as non spring loaded design. It still 100 years later take manipulating each disc individually to manually place them in gates. Add even modicum of false gates and it gets tricky. Even without false gates it takes custom turning tool, instead of wavy bit of steel.
With pin tumblers one has to go to great lengths to make the lock not be trivial to pick, where as disc tumbler is inherently non trivial to pick. one can't just smack the discs and have them jump to gates like pin tumbler pins.
What I don't get is why people still bother with cheap pin tumblers. The patents of Emil are half a century expired and it isn't inherently more expensive to make disc detainer. You can stamp the discs on a stamping line and the lock body is drilling round hole in block of metal plus the cut for the side bar to sit/jam at. It doesn't take exotic difficult machining operations to make. After all it was designed to be reasonably easy to produce with early 1900's machining equipment. Most complex part is the disc housing core and even that ain't that complex to machine
In one word: YES.
Than any generation of masterlocks (i think they were around then too)
Locks aren't really designed to keep people from picking them, because most locks can be broken rather quickly, quicker than it takes to pick them even. You could have the worlds most unpickable lock, and its material strength would still be its major weakness. You also balance practicality of size and strength with cost. For the most part, locks are designed to ward off sudden opportunistic theft, and make it just hard enough that most people could risk getting caught trying to either pick or break the lock.
To be fair here, a reshaped paper clip is better than the current masterlock padlocks. And could probably unlock one, too.
Pretty impressive that such a old lock/core design held up for a few minutes against a expert picker with a custom tool.
These are the regular locks from my childhood. Really funny how this hopelessly obsolete design is still so effective. Nowadays the standard are Abloy Exec or the newer Sento locks, haven't seen one picked yet legitimately.
🇫🇮Are you from Finland?
@@TomboRectify SUOMI MAINITTU!
@@woldemunster9244 Juu Torilla tavataan!
Check out idanhurja's channel. He has picked most Abloy cores (including Protec 2) and makes it look waaaay easier than it is
If they are so effective, they're not obsolete despite their age!
Finally the Abloy lock I've been wanting to see for years! Here in Finland it's the most common core in our door locks, especially in detached houses. Good to see our doors are slightly more pick-resistant than what most of the world has!
Been looking for this video ever since I found the channel a couple of years ago. I use this lock on my garage and wanted to try and pick it but couldnt. Now I dont feel as bad about it!
You know the lock is tough when you need to use a custom tool.
In this case, yes-but not necessarily in the general case. LPL has opened plenty of locks for which he's needed to make a custom tool that _I_ could both fashion and use. It still required a custom tool, though.
Abloy must be happy with this video. Any lock that takes LPL this long to open is a good lock.
Sure, but a good thunk with a hammer will probably open this up.
This is going to become a high end lock company lock brag
"This lock has 1 minute LPL rating"
"This one here has a 3 minute LPL rating."
Abloy is known to be the best lock company in the world.
Assa Abloy probebly was the first to like it
ASSA ABLOY is one of the most well-reknown lock companies in existant, I don't think they'll notice
These are still quite common locks in Finland - at least in less expensive applications such as garden shack doors, janitor's tool sheds etc. =)
It took him 2:25 minutes, a special tool that he made, and years of experience to open it. I'm impressed with that lock. Some destructive atacks would be more effective to open it, and that is what gets me curious. How resistant it is.
That model is not very strong.
@@jounisaari9471 Quite sad, unfortunately.
@@NeverSnows That is 100 yrs old model. Abloy has much stronger ones and also that classic is easiest core to pick. (The original classic was easier, after 60's it was improved.)
Waiting to see LPL to pick the latest models.. Likely a long video.
4 minute video makes this a very good lock seems like locks are deproving LMAO
@Great Dane what are *you* talking about?
@Great Dane Okay? But you're "bringing this kind of shit" with your comment. Just saying
The tool that the Lock Picking Lawyer and the Lock Picking Lawyer made?!?!
"the tool I made alone"
I would love to see a video about your creation of tools. This is very cool to see in operation, but to know the process of designing a tool like this and reverse-engineering around a picker's need would be great.
He didn't design it, I did.
This model of Abloy is so pretty! I have one of these just hanging on my tool box at work. It's 30+ years old and works perfectly.
Oh wow technology from decades ago being safer than these super modern smart locks what a surprise
More like a century ago! This is quite an impressive design for sure.
For the record, Abloy also makes super modern smart locks, and yes they're even more secure
This lock and the key are extremely nostalgic to any Finnish person with the lock being around for decades and its still used in my peoples lockers, storages etc.
So true!
This is a lock we lock our woodsheds with in Finland, low value targets. It's an lock that keeps honest men honest. For serious padlocks check out the PL362 with Protec2 core.
That phrase "keeps honest men honest" always bothers me. A truly honest person wouldn't go after someone else's belongings, so there's no reason to "keep" them honest. More accurate is it keeps a lazy person out.
@@CS-xt7nf True, but also opportunity makes the thief.
It may be old but there are still thousands of these in use (the finnish military gives these for personal lockers)
Like he said - still in production - you can go to a supermarket and buy them.
I reckon most Finns have at least one classic Abloy in their keyring, so the number is in the millions.
@@RelativeRelativiness as another commenter said 90% +/- of finlander's have one of these guarding their lawn mower because this is a relatively cheap lock and good luck getting into it non-destructively, you have two choices for picking this lock option one buy a $300 tool from I believe his name is Matt Smith, option two is custom make what is effectively and identical copy of the tool that Matt Smith sells
Are there any other Abloy disc cores, that you could pick on camera like this Classic? I know some of the latest high security ones are.. exceedingly difficult, to put it mildly. Is there anything interesting in-between?
protec 1 is pickable
Some old homes use the classic core here in Finland, but most homes use the sentry or sento core now. Would be good to see LPL pick one of those
@joetheprogrammer
If you send him a lock, he will pick it!
@@OzzieOz80 Sadly LPL can not pick the Sento and Exce cores.
@@SamiNami Are there videos where he shows this?
I kind of want this now, even though I have nothing to lock up currently -- I just like the design. Maybe having a decent lock for lockers would make me get off my butt to go to the gym...
In Abloys native land (Finland) this type of a pick was called "Vempele". Very few were able to use back then, but it had likely been used in bank heists in the past... The padlock version, of course, could be more easily broken physically with numerous tools...
There's so many reason why I love this video. The lock looks so good and the fact that it's design is ages old gives it a sort of Dwarven ruins feel. On top of that in order to open this you need the LPL special: a Dwarven looking, DIY pick. Aaand on top of that the core surpasses any and all expectations one could have just by looking at it.
I really want to see you attempt to pick a modern ABLOY lock. They seem near impossible
Send him one, he might.
He never will, not with his video model these days
Of course he will. He will do part one to part 15 if necessary ;)
That is the lock we got for our personal lockers in the Swedish (back then mandatory) military service.
Finns do too, naturally
@@aqthefanattic7933 When I was in we got the more modern incarnation. Still same classic core, but in PL321 brass body. Seems catalog says they are all chrome plated these days, but ours was in plain brass.
It seemed to be important the lock not to be TOO strong, so the staff could cut the lock shackle without too much trouble with bolt cutters. I think happened once in my unit, because someone lost their key in the woods and then the watch officers came with bolt cutters, snap and gave the conscript a new lock. Ofcourse ahemm said conscript had to file for the losing of the key and thus also the lock and got dinged for it from their per diem.
@@aritakalo8011 hey at least you didn't lose a key to a few million € viestikontti. Like our squadleader.. was fun combing the damn forest for few hours with like 100 ppl. Was newer abloy, harder to find than all metallic ones.
I think this is the longest I’ve seen him take on a regular production lock. Wow. I guess innovation doesn’t equal improvement.
That's patents for you.
@@karhu96 to my understanding the abloy classic core is not patented at all or if it is the patent is long expired because that core is over a century old
@@the_undead Today, yes. Even it's successor, ABLOY Sentry had it's patent run out some years ago.
However, as these kind of disc locks were all patented for a long time, while the pin and tumbler locks were not, it's easy to understand why the latter design became more globally dominant, despite being inferior in almost all ways.
@@karhu96 the funny thing that I find about pen tumblers being the dominant design pretty much everywhere except high-end bike locks is the fact that they are much more expensive to produce, if you are just looking for a lock that can function then a disc detainer is going to be incredibly cheap because just stamp the discs
look at any of his older videos. you know, the ones without hundreds of thousands of views, where he actually picked difficult locks
Maybe 85% of Finnish cellar closets are still locked with these. Having had Abloy locks all my life locks in other countries feel pretty much pathetic …
Over 100 years old lock system is still much better than any Master Lock
Abloy seems to be consistently top-notch, makes you wonder why it isn't more popular in the States.
Oh that's because it's a Finnish company and Finnish companies have a tendency to just assume that no one outside Finland is interested in their products, so they don't really even bother trying to expand or import.
Because it's not made in USA.
@@poowaffle idk if I'd go so far as to say that's the reason. The Assa Abloy conglomerate *does* own companies in America. It's likely that they simply feel the brand recognition of American brands is worth more than better products.
They do sadly put the Abloy name on a couple that aren't very pick-resistant at all, but only a few because people in the know buy their better products. As to why this lock isn't more common in the US … This thing's going to be on the rack next to a $5 Master that claims "MAXXX Security". The average consumer does not yet know the XXX in "MAXXX" means if you buy Master, you're getting screwed.
@@poowaffle Because it's not Master Lock ! made in USA.
Most common place nowadays to see these in use in Finland are storage cubicles at the basement of old apartment buildings. Each apartment has its own little storage space, right next to each other, walls made out of thin boards and chicken wire. It is so funny to see these locks on doors while one could get throw the "wall" or door with scissors.
This type Abloy was pretty much the only padlock you could by in Finland until late 70's.
If you cut through the wall, it's abundantly apparent that a thief has stolen the goods. Presumably insurance would then be involved and make amends. Whereas if your stuff just "goes missing," insurance will start asking pointed questions, like, for instance, is the stuff that _was_ in this cubbyhole now sitting in a box in your grandparents' farm's hayloft while you defraud the insurance company for its value?
These are very common locks in Finland. You also need to wait until the summer if you plan to pick it in the field.
True, going to the summerhouse tomorrow.. 100% sure that I will have to heat the lock of the storage for extended period of time to get the damn thing open and get inside to melt dry
Finland got the approval, time to be proud about it.
The Swedish defense forces used this lock already in the 1960's and when I entered in the 1980's, this lock was what I was equipped with. Seems like that they knew what they were doing!
We still use them, my AK5 is locked with one of these right now
@@linusgibson1415 your what? There are kalash builds in sweden??
@@W_Anchor Ruotsin puolustusvoimien aseet ovat nimeltään "AutomatKarbin 4" (AK4) ja "AutomatKarbin 5" (AK5) vähän niin kuin Suomessa on RK62 ja RK95
@@Tapio86 pitääpä kuukkeloida nyt kun on aikaa, luullu että nato kaliiberisia vain heillä
@@W_Anchor nimitys hämää. AK4 on 7,62 ja AK5 on 5,56
That's a quality tool.
These are very common padlocks in Finland. It is made by ABLOY. The name comes from AB Lukko OY where AB stands for aktiebolag (Swedish) and OY for osakeyhtiö(Finnish). They both mean corporation. Lukko is Finnish and means a Lock.
Wait, *NOT* the pick that you and BosnianBill made? What????
Not much sense to try a tool that does not work.
can't tension or pick it with that style of DD pick, so no
Practicing lock picking in Finland is kind of hard because of this lock design. This particular type of padlock is typical for an outhouse or something.
A disc detainer core that can't be picked by the pick BosnianBill and I made??
FINALLY, A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR
This one was more thrilling than many action movies
more thrilling than to decide cutting red or blue cable
You can tell it's a good lock if even LPL can't tell for certain whether it's a falae set or not.
and amount of concentration it required from him was noticeable as well with greater pauses between talking while picking
false gate, not false set
@@thelockpickingspoon9074 What's the difference? I'm an absolute novice despite having watched plenty of his vids.
@@DrakiniteOfficial the type of lock, false sets are found with locks that contain some form of spool pins, false gates are cuts on a locking element that are shorter/smaller than the true gate
@@DrakiniteOfficial The terminology comes from "setting a pin" where false set is setting a pin on location that seems to be set. With pin tumbler locks this is caused by "security pins" which are actually just oddly shaped pins, often spool like or a standard pin with grooves also called a serrated pin. Disk detainer locks work by rotating disks and for those the locations that the sidebar can fit are called gates. A false gate is a gate which has correct width but the depth is not deep enough to fully fit the sidebar. And since disk detainer locks like this Abloy Classic have zero springs, there's no "pins to drop" or anything equivalent because everything stays in the position you set it if you stop moving your tools. To open the lock 9 of the actual code disks need to be turned correct amount (there are 6 options per disk, separated by 18 degrees each for Abloy Classic) and the first and last disk must be rotated equal amount to uncut key. After that the lock opens if you turn the bottom disk in clockwise direction (and all the disks rotate together even if you only turn the last disk).
good marketin for abloy. im still thinking abloy makes best locks in the world
There is a reason why pretty much 99.9% of Finnish household doors has Abloy locks
they're pretty damn close to it
Those locks are everywhere here in finland. Also used by military on personal lockers. When my army buddy lost his key all it took was a solid hit to the meeting point of the shackle and body with combat shovel and the lock just broke in half.
Yup, fairly easy to destroy. There’s other padlocks Abloy makes that are more resistant to violence.
When I was doing my conscript service in Finland they told not to mess with the locks if somebody lost their key because they had spare keys in some central safe. They just broke the door (which was cheaper to replace than the lock!) and put the lock aside to wait for a new key to be copied from the spare key and gave an another lock with a known key.
Maybe the cost of Abloy Classic is finally low enough that it's cheaper to destroy the lock instead of the locker door.
@@MikkoRantalainen Meillä oli kaikilla vara-avaimet yksikön vääpelillä ja juuri lomilta tulleina sunnuntai-iltana ei ollut muuta vaihtoehtoa, ei muutakun häväriä tekemään koko lukosta.
@@HokkeliBOY Meillä Vekaralla tuollaisessa tilanteessa päivystäjä rikkoi ovesta saranat, ruuvasi siitä kaapista sen lukon vastakappaleen irti ja kantoi oven jonnekin varastoon. En muista tuotiinko sieltä toinen lukko ja ovi tilalle saman tien vai mentiinkö aamuun asti ilman ovea. Itse en avainta hukannut, mutta tuvassa muistaakseni yhden kerran nähtiin tämä esitys kun yksi sankari onnistui hukkaamaan avaimensa lomalta palatessa. Ajakohta oli siis jossain 1998 tienoilla.
Excellent - could you dismantle and explain how it functions ? Interesting upload
Pretty impressive. Put that core into a lock with beefy hardened shackle and anti-drill features and you will have some lock.
Abloy uses unpickable cores for their higher security locks.
The shackle is already hardened.
@@SamiNami thats bait to lpl... I can say with certainty he could pick any current lock of any make in under 4-5 mins....never ever seen him fail on any lock. U could mail him one of these 'unpickable' locks if u sure😜
@@samiraperi467 brass body and physically weak design tho
Yes this is a throwaway lock. Core can not be re keyed or opened. IMO it is too expensive for what it is. No point having a good core in a cheap body, but the body is a classic design from a long time ago and I think that is the reason it exists. It is a shame they can not be re keyed because it would be cool to use old locks.
I think these ones are nice to have in places where the intruder would have some time to spent on the premise, like they often are in Finland, for example as locks on summer homes / toolsheds etc. Where determined intruder can just break their way through windows/doors, causing more damage. And the stuff inside usually isn't too valuable. So what you want is a broken lock to show the insurance company. So high pick resistance -> easier to break the 25€ lock then the 100€+ door or window. And as picking is not too likely option -> evidence. Same lock cylinders are used in doors and postal boxes in older houses.
Funny thing is that our postalboxes have abloy sento cores. Frontdoors however still has abloy classics :D
@@juhavehmanen8604 Mail theft is a very serious crime. Definitely much worse than breaking and entering.
Reason number 1 I have set lock in my summer cabin so loose that you can pry it open with minimum force needed. The door is more expensive than anything I have there so I rather have it crank able with screw driver. If someone wants to get in he will
LPL puts a video more than 1:30... this lock is something special... either is on the hard side to pick or there is uber cool story behind it that makes LPL so excited he has to share it with us (in a most calm voice ever).
I have just found this answer to a Quora question. It is about Reijo Luotolainen, who was a notorious Finnish serial rapist.
"Almost all Finnish front door locks are Abloy disk tumbler locks, which are virtually unpickable. Luotolainen was extremely intelligent, and he invented a sophisticated device - vempele - on how to pick disk tumbler locks. He would follow drunken women arriving from night clubs, observe where they would go to their homes, and then check which lights would turn out. He would then pick the main door lock and the apartment door with his vempele, and then proceed on assaulting the asleep woman with an ether-soaked rag, put her unconscious and then rape her.
He was able to continue this practice for years since he never left any traces behind - and nobody believed an Abloy lock could be picked (it is still today unpickable witout a similar special device)."
The rapist was later knocked out by a woman with a frying pan and apprehended by police.
Yup. Although the original "vempele" wouldn't work on this lock, as the first disc is a spinner. It was designed for older models.
The tool you were using is called Vempele in finnish witch translated means doohickey, it was invented in 1950s and some criminal gangs had a production of them.
Been awhile since you picked an Abloy. Great video
There is a reason why he doesn't do it as often as Master lock haha
Abloy's the best in the world! The company had a hard time when the patent of their lock ran out - how to make an even better lock mechanism if you already made the best in the biz... :D
Big thumbs up for the Lock picking lawyer from Finland! Keep amazing!