Hundreds of comments and dozens of questions about CSU creaks/ off axis testing and not a single answer from fox in two weeks. Glad to see they care about the concerns of theyr customers and not just on marketing 😉
Fox: the forces generally shown in this video on the fork appear to be of translation in the y-direction (in-line with the forks vertical travel), however, there are also other directions of translation-forces, as well as rotational-forces that happen in real-world riding (rolling, trimming etc.) But how do you test for this to ascertain for e.g. bushing wear rates and other failure-mechanisms? The fork test rig appears to have bolted the fork with precision alignment of the vertical travel, therefore, other load-paths are then excluded. Can you please explain?
This wouldn't be the only testing, im sure they would do on bike testing. A lot of this type of dyno testing is to stress the damper, not the actual stanchions and lowers and crown
I love when companies do this. Shows that their not trying to suck every nickel out of us. They just want us as well as them to have fun and be safe. I’ll support them for my bikes, cars, and trucks.
You guys have another one of my Fox 36 CSU steer tube issues coming back soon for you to test... Again! Round 2 down round 3 here we go!!!!! Let's see if I stick with Fox after the next fork that comes back, this time it better last more then 1 month before the infamous CREEK!!!!!
Ganiscol Very well received & good input thanks! I agree not all products are perfect.. just hoping for the best from Fox because I do love their stuff.. so long as it works and keeps on workin 💯😎🚲💨
I’ve always been amazed at MTB suspension technology. After some rides that I’ve been on that have been so rough and demanding, I have never ever had a failure in my fox suspension components.
Thank you for finally giving us a glimpse of where some of the magic happens. We have just started being a dealer for your amazing product in Papua New Guinea. We have some hectic terrain, roads and trails and it’s great to see the confidence you have in your product, as we have in it as well . Look forward to see some factory series SUV shocks exploding too ! 😂👍🏽 🇺🇸 🇵🇬
Spectacular programme 👍. Thats so important to all the clients...we know we are safe and got a great product!! Thanks to show the test lab 🔧🔩and the people behind !
Great video! Would be interesting to see more about the design process of the forks and shocks. How the iteration cycle works between athletes and engineers.
Oh yeah, i want to do a 72h Downhill run! Lets see, are there any tests? Oh I found one! But I didnt found a Downhill trail this long so.... can you buildt one that i can test it myself?!
Q: Can the test rigs side load the shocks and forks too? Also are the dynos powered on the return stroke or is the shock/ fork spring return the dyno to its starting point ?
I blew my new DHX2 coil shock seal head as a long crack around the shock eye bolt. 2020 model and have had a shock rod fail as well. The first failures in 5 years off fox suspension i have used. Still waiting for it to come back from fox as parts hold up covid19
Having conducted reliability testing and worked on engineering validation test plans myself, these tests shown do not represent real world environmental conditions that these products are subjected to - some in harsh conditions involving hot temperatures and cold temperatures. No wonder the Fox products on the 2015 Pivot Switchblade failed. The testing shown here involves testing in one axis, under no load conditions which doesn't represent real-world riding conditions. All one needed to hear was the lab shown was days old back in 2020. One can only imagine what they weren't doing in the past. What they should do is put some money into their test plans and design something that takes the entire bike sporting their suspension and stress test it. These tests appear to be isolation tests. That's fine if one wanted to intentionally isolate certain components only so they could see which axis produces failures on its own but, they should have a test that factors everything in just like automotive test rigs do. So, perhaps they've got other means of testing than what is shown here. I sure hope so for, what is shown here doesn't adequately test for failure. Fox is huge in the racing industry (Auto) so, one must assume they've got other means of testing that isn't shown in this video for their biking products. If this is all they're doing for the Mountain Bike Community - I'd look for another supplier like I did when their components failed out of the box under street riding use. I had seal failures of the rear shock - wouldn't hold pressure at the rear shock and a mechanical failure of their drop seat post. Wall thickness far too thin compounded with poor machining done at their Asian plant led to micro-stress fractures which ultimately led to the bracket snapping off the seat post on a brand new Pivot. In my experience, Fox was low - reliability on my 2015 Pivot Switchblade for, both items failed within hours of use on road use.
Great video again 🦊 I’d like to see a video on custom tunes for a specific manufacturer or frame combo. And how the manufacturer works with Fox to decide on the tune for a frame. E.g. Treks Reaktiv tune in the rear shock. Great work guys these are fascinating videos. 👍👌
i still cant find out a real answar about: HOW BAD IS TO REACH FULL TRAVEL? i mean, what if i do a drop on a flat surface so the fork just get FULLY compressed (and you hear that bad steel sound) how bad is for the fork?
The fork is meant and built to run through its full travel. If you are bottoming our on every drop and every jump though, eventually the forks seals will get a bit tweaked. Add some volume spacers or some air to fix that problem. If you have a coil fork then... get an air fork
Great video, I do have a question/concern though: I recently sent in a 36 off of a new bike for warranty because of significant play between the stanchions/lowers and a "klunking" noise and feeling over small bumps. Unfortunately, I received the fork back and the issue still persists. The service tech noted that the fork was tested and appeared fine, but upon seeing this video I am wondering if the testing would not account for forward/backward forces that would normally occur while riding and could produce the play?
I have a 2021 fox 40 VVC awesome fork but I’m a little bit upset because I want to get a matching fox float X2 shock with VVC but you guys don’t make it in my size 8.75 by 2.75 I wish you guys could make a shock in this size as my bike is a Santa Cruz V10.6 2016
yeah ! thats the real problem modern forks have... my buddy has a creaky DVO, i had 2 Fox Forks creaky after a few months.. now i have a creaky lyric 4 months old.. fuck that.
It's not the same when your rides at the shark and hits a bump they're movements on another directions no only up and down it's not that simple to tes them the best wey is to ride them. I love Fox!!!
Q: Lets say my frame fits a Trunnion 205x62.5, but a shock I'm looking at only does 205x60 and 205x62.5. Can fox customize the stroke length that is not standard in their lineup?
Watching Pinkbike’s huck to flat there is flex thru the fork travel. It looked like shaft velocity goes down when there is flex in the fork during travel. Is the data acquisition picking this up? How is the test done to mimic similar real world performance of these forks?
72 hour straight test but service is needed ever 30 hours? I get the idea of contamination but does it really decrease the service intervals that much?
Except there is no use case, where the force applied to the fork or shock is directly inline with the stanchions. I've never seen a test rig that applies load at an angle. Are they there, and we just don't see them?
So please tell me, why did the seal on the upper part of the damper body on my 2021 Float X2 popped out twice while cruising in climb mode? Oh and, why has the CSU on my 38 with hyper-optimzed oval shaft started to creak after the third ride? Despite all your testing, why is the 2021 transfer basically incompatible with the very popular SQLab saddle due to very limited angle adjustment so that I cannot tilt it forward like on other droppers?
It might come to you as a surprise, but outside of labs we run our forks at 62-68 degrees head angle, not 90. Even tiny XC fork might survive 72 hour marathon of testing when it does not need to flex. Perhaps that is why your 36 series are notorious for CSU creeks and replacements. You just never tested for such a thing as landing a drop with real world head angle in your development.
Hmm..Yes and why don’t you realistically test that the damping also has diagonal forces not just vertical to the axis? is this present in your tests? I think that the pressure of vertical forces together with diagonal forces, for example, as in braking on very steep and uneven terrain on guides and gaskets, would show realistic results in wear.
I wish FOX would make (or import) a decent quality rebuildable $300. fat bike sus fork with a straight steer tube and 135mm dropouts for all the new fat ebikes out there that come with crappy chinese sus forks. This is where all the bike manufacturers cheap out and most of them install Mozo Fatman POS $24. sus forks or similar. When mine wouldn't hold air anymore, I bought a Bolany ZTZ with rebound on Amazon for $140. shipped. It's actually not bad, but it is definitely light-duty, and when it breaks, it's done. I would have paid double that to get a rebuildable fork with more durability and a rebound adjustment that wasn't quirky. I will not spend $500+ for a fork that should have come with the bike, and I suspect other fat bike/ebike owners who want to upgrade to a better quality sus fork with rebound adjustment wouldn't either. WHAT CAN YOU GUYS DO?
Supr the new testings of factory lab #dialed for thes #ridefox goods prototaips a futurs of #foxdialed thanks guy's po the inclucin a FOX bike's. Saluds of Chile 🇨🇱🤘😀🚵
get a new crown :D nah I got the same issue... I heard RSF Suspension can do a "de-creak" if you don't have warranty anymore. I don't have made any experiences with them tho...
Is fox joking me... I bought a 2020 trek remedy for 5.300€ and the middle suspension lose all the oil after 20km of riding... and the biggest joke is, luckily my bike deal built a rockshoxs for the repairing, that they not sending me a new suspension, I got one lend from the dealer so I can use the bike, what a disgrace for fox... they repaired my used one for more than 3 weeks 😂 if for example my 1400€ iPhone 11 Pro Max don’t work well maybe a button I go to the Applestore and after 10min I went out with a new phone for warrenty that’s Service ! Bad final test for such a high priced suspension is one thing but this bad service is from an other world... maybe someone think about FOX an my story when they buy stuff from them ... ✌🏼
Makes me want to see how shocks explode,
Just buy a DHX2
@@nicoofner85 hahahaha nice one mate. Actually broke my HSC a month ago on a factory one
Michael Lee HES saying that because his shock exploded mate 🤦♂️
@@RealRad10 LOL
@@nicoofner85 just buy a Walmart shock
Dear Fox:
you forgot to test for CSU creaks. That up and down test doesn't reflect real world force directions.
Sincenrely,
A creaking CSU owner
Hundreds of comments and dozens of questions about CSU creaks/ off axis testing and not a single answer from fox in two weeks. Glad to see they care about the concerns of theyr customers and not just on marketing 😉
Fox: the forces generally shown in this video on the fork appear to be of translation in the y-direction (in-line with the forks vertical travel), however, there are also other directions of translation-forces, as well as rotational-forces that happen in real-world riding (rolling, trimming etc.) But how do you test for this to ascertain for e.g. bushing wear rates and other failure-mechanisms? The fork test rig appears to have bolted the fork with precision alignment of the vertical travel, therefore, other load-paths are then excluded. Can you please explain?
Good point, since bikes have 62.5 - 70.0 degree head tubes, and are sometimes on an angle (going over roots while leaning right or left, etc).
I was thinking the exact same thing. I am interested in what other tests are ran.
Ever heard of 36s CSU creeking issues? They clearly never did, not with this kind of testing...
This wouldn't be the only testing, im sure they would do on bike testing. A lot of this type of dyno testing is to stress the damper, not the actual stanchions and lowers and crown
Why don’t they just show you, and the world, and their competitors? 🤔🧐
I love when companies do this. Shows that their not trying to suck every nickel out of us. They just want us as well as them to have fun and be safe. I’ll support them for my bikes, cars, and trucks.
You guys have another one of my Fox 36 CSU steer tube issues coming back soon for you to test... Again! Round 2 down round 3 here we go!!!!! Let's see if I stick with Fox after the next fork that comes back, this time it better last more then 1 month before the infamous CREEK!!!!!
I was thinking same thing
Ganiscol Very well received & good input thanks! I agree not all products are perfect.. just hoping for the best from Fox because I do love their stuff.. so long as it works and keeps on workin 💯😎🚲💨
🙄
2023 fox 36 just dropped and it fixed the infamous creaking noise
So why does the csu creak like a mo-fo?
I use fox 32 talas rlc for 4 years this is the best fork
Love from Bulgaria 🇧🇬
I’ve always been amazed at MTB suspension technology. After some rides that I’ve been on that have been so rough and demanding, I have never ever had a failure in my fox suspension components.
Love seeing the damper systems in action.
Thank you for finally giving us a glimpse of where some of the magic happens. We have just started being a dealer for your amazing product in Papua New Guinea. We have some hectic terrain, roads and trails and it’s great to see the confidence you have in your product, as we have in it as well . Look forward to see some factory series SUV shocks exploding too ! 😂👍🏽 🇺🇸 🇵🇬
Thank you
Spectacular programme 👍. Thats so important to all the clients...we know we are safe and got a great product!!
Thanks to show the test lab 🔧🔩and the people behind !
Great video! Would be interesting to see more about the design process of the forks and shocks. How the iteration cycle works between athletes and engineers.
You should put some dirt and mud to test the stanchions anodize coating
Top notch quality control
Bought a MTB and got Fox ,looks legit 😂💪🔥
Oh yeah, i want to do a 72h Downhill run! Lets see, are there any tests? Oh I found one! But I didnt found a Downhill trail this long so.... can you buildt one that i can test it myself?!
Q: Can the test rigs side load the shocks and forks too? Also are the dynos powered on the return stroke or is the shock/ fork spring return the dyno to its starting point ?
FOX Is the best !!!!
I blew my new DHX2 coil shock seal head as a long crack around the shock eye bolt. 2020 model and have had a shock rod fail as well. The first failures in 5 years off fox suspension i have used. Still waiting for it to come back from fox as parts hold up covid19
No thank you still a rockshox fan!
Charger damper on top
Having conducted reliability testing and worked on engineering validation test plans myself, these tests shown do not represent real world environmental conditions that these products are subjected to - some in harsh conditions involving hot temperatures and cold temperatures. No wonder the Fox products on the 2015 Pivot Switchblade failed. The testing shown here involves testing in one axis, under no load conditions which doesn't represent real-world riding conditions. All one needed to hear was the lab shown was days old back in 2020. One can only imagine what they weren't doing in the past. What they should do is put some money into their test plans and design something that takes the entire bike sporting their suspension and stress test it. These tests appear to be isolation tests. That's fine if one wanted to intentionally isolate certain components only so they could see which axis produces failures on its own but, they should have a test that factors everything in just like automotive test rigs do. So, perhaps they've got other means of testing than what is shown here. I sure hope so for, what is shown here doesn't adequately test for failure. Fox is huge in the racing industry (Auto) so, one must assume they've got other means of testing that isn't shown in this video for their biking products.
If this is all they're doing for the Mountain Bike Community - I'd look for another supplier like I did when their components failed out of the box under street riding use. I had seal failures of the rear shock - wouldn't hold pressure at the rear shock and a mechanical failure of their drop seat post. Wall thickness far too thin compounded with poor machining done at their Asian plant led to micro-stress fractures which ultimately led to the bracket snapping off the seat post on a brand new Pivot. In my experience, Fox was low - reliability on my 2015 Pivot Switchblade for, both items failed within hours of use on road use.
Want to see the boom!
Great video again 🦊 I’d like to see a video on custom tunes for a specific manufacturer or frame combo. And how the manufacturer works with Fox to decide on the tune for a frame. E.g. Treks Reaktiv tune in the rear shock. Great work guys these are fascinating videos. 👍👌
I came to be informed but the music made it a challenging.
i still cant find out a real answar about: HOW BAD IS TO REACH FULL TRAVEL?
i mean, what if i do a drop on a flat surface so the fork just get FULLY compressed (and you hear that bad steel sound)
how bad is for the fork?
Not bad
Forks are made to get through its Travel so🤷♂️ so yes it is completely ok to Flat out every Single Jump you find
That sound is the fork hitting its rubber bump stop. Nothing to worry about whatsoever.
The fork is meant and built to run through its full travel. If you are bottoming our on every drop and every jump though, eventually the forks seals will get a bit tweaked. Add some volume spacers or some air to fix that problem. If you have a coil fork then... get an air fork
That 50to01 mudguard tho
lovee
Sana magkaroon ako yan super safe ka talaga sa quality ng fox32
Always fox for me !!!! Kashima let's goo boiiiiiiiii ;)
A part two follow up video suggestion. Once the testing cycle has been completed, how are the suspension items analysed for performance?
Any stress test to identify creakings?
As for the shock it’s a fox float X2 RVS 8.75 by 2.75 2020
Great video, I do have a question/concern though: I recently sent in a 36 off of a new bike for warranty because of significant play between the stanchions/lowers and a "klunking" noise and feeling over small bumps. Unfortunately, I received the fork back and the issue still persists. The service tech noted that the fork was tested and appeared fine, but upon seeing this video I am wondering if the testing would not account for forward/backward forces that would normally occur while riding and could produce the play?
I have a 2021 fox 40 VVC awesome fork but I’m a little bit upset because I want to get a matching fox float X2 shock with VVC but you guys don’t make it in my size 8.75 by 2.75 I wish you guys could make a shock in this size as my bike is a Santa Cruz V10.6 2016
What about the creaky crowns (CSU) problem?
yeah ! thats the real problem modern forks have... my buddy has a creaky DVO, i had 2 Fox Forks creaky after a few months.. now i have a creaky lyric 4 months old.. fuck that.
Would also be nice to see if they test the torsional strength of the braces on their forks. I have snapped 2 braces.
Hi guys, great show... How much crossover between fox mountain bikes, fox auto and fox motocross for suspension development?
why do you make the lowest crown look like it is some cheap with all the holes behind it ?
When running these tests, do you test the extremes regarding adjustments? Meaning run the full 72 hours with dampening fully open and fully closed?
It's not the same when your rides at the shark and hits a bump they're movements on another directions no only up and down it's not that simple to tes them the best wey is to ride them. I love Fox!!!
Q: Lets say my frame fits a Trunnion 205x62.5, but a shock I'm looking at only does 205x60 and 205x62.5. Can fox customize the stroke length that is not standard in their lineup?
Jevol provides the complete solution for vehicle inspection center, workshop.
I wish fox tested there CSUs better!! Reliability is terrible on the fox 36s hope the 38s are sorted.
the new ones (sometimes) creak aswell. But if you still have got warranty you can send your fork to fox and the will eventually fix it...
Watching Pinkbike’s huck to flat there is flex thru the fork travel. It looked like shaft velocity goes down when there is flex in the fork during travel. Is the data acquisition picking this up? How is the test done to mimic similar real world performance of these forks?
72 hour straight test but service is needed ever 30 hours? I get the idea of contamination but does it really decrease the service intervals that much?
on which bike does the fork stand upright? the meaning of testing in an ideal vertical?
Except there is no use case, where the force applied to the fork or shock is directly inline with the stanchions. I've never seen a test rig that applies load at an angle. Are they there, and we just don't see them?
Yep, they are there! I just wasn't able to film every single test.
@@JakeFrew Nice! Thanks for hitting me back.
saw that in a rockshox video.. was wild
Hello, can you show a free vibration test on bike suspension (i.e. to get natural frequency or damped natural frequency)
I haven’t used fox forks yet they look good
Any chance of getting a look inside where Fox tests their larger shocks? Like race truck suspension? Or is that in a different location?
Fox suspension is the best suspension on the planet especially when you’re paying a premium for high spec well engineered product
So please tell me, why did the seal on the upper part of the damper body on my 2021 Float X2 popped out twice while cruising in climb mode? Oh and, why has the CSU on my 38 with hyper-optimzed oval shaft started to creak after the third ride? Despite all your testing, why is the 2021 transfer basically incompatible with the very popular SQLab saddle due to very limited angle adjustment so that I cannot tilt it forward like on other droppers?
ive twisted my 36, in 2 months of use. i did not get any warranty from fox philippines,,, such a sad way to love a suspension brand..
Show one getting tested to failure, that would be RUclips gold
That's great but why is my CSU creaking like I can afford to replace it
Hell yeah
*SATISFYING*
Let’s see them destroy a fork!
Get Kenny on here. Man is a legend
It might come to you as a surprise, but outside of labs we run our forks at 62-68 degrees head angle, not 90. Even tiny XC fork might survive 72 hour marathon of testing when it does not need to flex. Perhaps that is why your 36 series are notorious for CSU creeks and replacements. You just never tested for such a thing as landing a drop with real world head angle in your development.
wow genius, we never thought of that.....
Fox showed you 3 tests. We have 300+ all including every point you made
Hmm..Yes and why don’t you realistically test that the damping also has diagonal forces not just vertical to the axis? is this present in your tests? I think that the pressure of vertical forces together with diagonal forces, for example, as in braking on very steep and uneven terrain on guides and gaskets, would show realistic results in wear.
Sooo. Jordi's not letting you inside? Hahaha. Have to do it when he is away?
😂haha, whoops, ya I guess I didn't word that very well.
Frame geometry and development proccess maybe next time
👍 👍 👍
Конечно, мы тоже так ездим: в лабараторных условиях, без пыли грязи песка и воды
I need one of those fans for the side of my bike.
what the fox!
3:25 whats is soundtrack artist please
Davis Absolute - My Life (Instrumental)
They should do a test so that something pushes on the front of the forks
Someone should put an old fork (e.g. 2005 fox float rl) in one of those testing rigs and see how it compares to today's tech
Yes, or you could even test every model year and compare them. And you could even show how bad the rock shox stuff is 😂
Love that idea! Wouldn't be surprised if they've already done that actually 🤘
Done it all 😉
RLD profile great for analysis!. Do you test dampers / forks with a constant speed (ramp test) ?. Best Regards
Sure do 🙂
I wish FOX would make (or import) a decent quality rebuildable $300. fat bike sus fork with a straight steer tube and 135mm dropouts for all the new fat ebikes out there that come with crappy chinese sus forks. This is where all the bike manufacturers cheap out and most of them install Mozo Fatman POS $24. sus forks or similar. When mine wouldn't hold air anymore, I bought a Bolany ZTZ with rebound on Amazon for $140. shipped. It's actually not bad, but it is definitely light-duty, and when it breaks, it's done. I would have paid double that to get a rebuildable fork with more durability and a rebound adjustment that wasn't quirky. I will not spend $500+ for a fork that should have come with the bike, and I suspect other fat bike/ebike owners who want to upgrade to a better quality sus fork with rebound adjustment wouldn't either. WHAT CAN YOU GUYS DO?
How moto/car suspension is different/similar to bike suspension
My old mtb needs new shock and im gonna use rockshock
Supr the new testings of factory lab #dialed for thes #ridefox goods prototaips a futurs of #foxdialed thanks guy's po the inclucin a FOX bike's. Saluds of Chile 🇨🇱🤘😀🚵
Will you cover crankworx now?
Where is the muddy during test ? That's means nothing without this élément...
This is just vertical movement what about the same test angled at 60 70 degree
I wish i could have one.. nothing more
I wish you guys made some for fat bikes :(
no money in that market. it’s too niche.
Imagine working for fox but riding rockshox
I just wished fox suspensions ia available in the philipines :(
jempoy
What about CSU freaks how do they fix those
Creaks I mean
get a new crown :D nah I got the same issue... I heard RSF Suspension can do a "de-creak" if you don't have warranty anymore. I don't have made any experiences with them tho...
TiMTB I have done that 3 times haha and now the 4th seems to be working
Definitely what sr suntour wont ever do
Makes me want to have one, but i dont have any money😔
Show what the actual tests are already!
Why Kashima coat paint quick to remove and scratch. ?!
It’s not
@@jadenr.11 I have fox 40, With just a slight scratch the kashima paint will remove!
2:28 why does he sound so afraid
But the real question is... how is the customer service lol😂
Hey Fox, is there anything that you know rockshox does better than you?
😂😂😂
Damping force..
"72 hours a day" -Fox Employee 2020
Expensive ,pay a sticker
Can u give me one of the fox suspension
If you pay for it they can
Expensive af
Pantesan mahal, budget r&dnya gede
YIR
Giveaway 🙏🙏🙏
Me envia uma ae skskks
Is fox joking me... I bought a 2020 trek remedy for 5.300€ and the middle suspension lose all the oil after 20km of riding... and the biggest joke is, luckily my bike deal built a rockshoxs for the repairing, that they not sending me a new suspension, I got one lend from the dealer so I can use the bike, what a disgrace for fox... they repaired my used one for more than 3 weeks 😂 if for example my 1400€ iPhone 11 Pro Max don’t work well maybe a button I go to the Applestore and after 10min I went out with a new phone for warrenty that’s Service ! Bad final test for such a high priced suspension is one thing but this bad service is from an other world... maybe someone think about FOX an my story when they buy stuff from them ... ✌🏼