Could The Permanent UK Falklands Defence Repel A Modern Argentine Attack? (WarGames 73) | DCS
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- Can Falklands Be Defended In 2025?: • 2025 The Second Falkla...
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Cap what you could do for the Argentinians is to do this mission with the modernized Argentinian Air force you did not long ago! Using JF-17s as fighters and the 23 Skyhawks for bombers + their ships have working SAMs.
ruclips.net/video/J1qMladHJUQ/видео.html
@@grimreapers I think he means against the current garrison
@@Gfdsa40 Yes I mean that with the current garrison.
@@grimreapers have you ever won a war without US support?? the past century? the US would came to late to rescue your ass😄, no, sorry, just kidding, i love doing it and watch how people reacts, most are very fast offended, especially when i speak about their country! Now serious question, what is your military background? have you ever been on a foreign assignment? Are you in the air force, army or navy, or maybe intelligence or strategic analysts, you don't need to tell specifics, so don't panic I can't spot you? or don't you have a military background, it doesn't mean anything because I've seen people without a military background showing great experience and relatively realistic simulations, just curious I'll comment when I know what your background is! i would really appreciate your info and have a short small talk, or small write👍
Oh, look, here we have another military expert from, the USA at a guess? It's only comedy and outright idiocy, as always. Tell me, just what Argentina could do if the UK sent one of her nuclear subs to the Falklands? LOL. Do you think Argentina would still want to fight? Hahaha grow UP.
Meteors on those 4 Eurofighters probably cost about the same as whole Argentine Air Force
yeh we might get some insight into that from the Ukraine war (what impact cost has on whats used for what). In a few years to come when the truth starts coming out itll be interesting to see how the cost of the western munitions balanced against the effect. And also of course how did Russias expensive systems manage in terms of cost v impact. As in a slugging match, weapons like the meteor can suddenly become a liability... unless of course if what few there are, are enough. Certainly cost is a big issue in the uk. Our kit is often the most advanced on the planet - but we dont have the money to make enough of it.
Yea what a waste of money
the ships argentina sunk in 82 were also more expensive than the a4s
As an argentine, I can confirm this
@@r200ti Valid point. The Russians (and Novorussiyan/Eastern Ukrainians) have simply been using cheap artillery rounds because they do the job. Can be produced 10 times as fast as the "guided" rounds too. Not sure how many Meteors Mt Pleasant would have on hand, but I doubt in the cost-conscious RAF if they would have more than 1 full combat load on hand. If given this tactical problem, I'd have used cheap drones or something first to draw off the meteors, but it is what it is. A-4s can only do so much against Gen 4.5 a/c
You'd get the same result with F-16V, F-15EX, Rafale or others.
For the second simulation Brits would more than likely have noticed the Radar sites going down and that would most likely have triggered launch of fighters or something to fill the gap... plus ground troops being deployed which may include some form of manpads.
Came here to say this. It was very enjoyable to watch, however!
yes the radar sites going cold would have at least allowed a rotating two plane patrol if nothing else.
Maybe they figured out some movie bullshit where the cctv shows recorded footage or something.
Yes, the ground forces have Starstreak MANPADS’s available to them. An incredibly good SHORAD system
True but the point was to give Argentina every conceivable chance. Having the RAF fighters on the ground, but ready to scramble, maybe simulates the best case readiness once EWR goes down.
UK Gov would be aware well in advance of the launch of any actual assualt. A small number of C17s would be able to reinforce the Islands extremely quickly with the likes of 3 CDO Bge and 16 Air Asslt. The differencve in global SIGINT available to UK Mil now compared to 1982 is astronimical.
Except like in 1982. The capability isn’t the problem. The politics are. The Falklands garrison was deliberately thrown under the bus.
The marines had give 3 weeks warning to the invasion. The home office refused to acknowledge or action anything they were told to hold position at the garrison. Actively pulled ships away from the island.
Before the invasion started and the garrison, it’s bunk houses they were told to defend were raped by machine gun fire and grenades in the dead of night.
It was a miracle the Marines had broken orders and formed their own defences; knowing they’d been abandoned by britain. The Falklands were REALLY ugly
As with most things this is a what if scenario. With UK and NATO forces main focus being on Russia and China and troops spread world-wide it would be typical for a sneaky attack. It doesn't have to be wholly believable however
They didn't in 1982, the government essentially avoided all the warning signs of invasion
Never ever count on knowing something ahead of time.
@@jugganaut33 which while somewhat cynical was exactly the right thing to do politically.
Based on everything I have read, unless Argentina can somehow acquire an aircraft that is at the same level or better than the Eurofighter, they stand no chance in attacking the Falklands by air. The distance is too great, the Eurofighter is at least 2 generations better, and even with only 4 of them, they managed to wipe out 31 aircraft on their own. The Sky Sabre didn't even need to prepare to fire.
As far as I know one EF in trainer config (two seater) won against two F35 in a simulated combat. They are amazing airsuperiority fighters.
@@emergcon I can see them winning against Fat Amy. I don't see them winning against a Raptor or a Felon. I do wonder about them and the SU-35.
Sky saver could probably win against 31 aircraft
Not like the Argentina has any airforce there in disrepair and they are prohibited from purchasing anything from the US or Europe.
@@gibmeister5854 But not from Russia. Argentina did not support the sanctions. Argentina is also alluded to in the video teaser for the SU-75 Checkmate. A 5th gen fighter would be a game changer.
The Typhoon and Meteor package was brutal. Even nerfed the Meteor was way too much for the Skyhawk's.
I would have liked to see a follow-up where refuelled and re-armed Typhoons went after the Argentine Navy. Air to sea is always fun to watch.
I'm not sure which munitions the Typhoon have at their disposal that could hit the ships and cause enough damage? Dumb bombs or Paveway perhaps the only ones? Brimstone are too lightweight, Storm Shadow has the hitting power, but not sure about the accuracy against a moving target.
@@skatman3278
I'd say that, since the Argentine Navy is limited to ~20 knots at best, the Eurofighters would have near-unlimited runs at them, no matter if the Navy retreated, or continued to advance.
I think dumb bombs would suffice.
@@xenaguy01 Plus they have very limited air defense so it'd be a shooting gallery
Remember that all the A4s had at San Carlos were dumb bombs and the British had warships there.
@@skatman3278 Do Tranche 1 Typhoons have Air to ground capability?
It’s the 5 Astute class submarines, 1 of which may or may not be in the area at any given moment that really makes the Argentines think another invasion is a bad idea. Unless you know for definite that all 5 are in port in the UK you are going to be very wary of attacking. The first you will know of its presence is when you start losing ships and other Assets, and even then you won’t know where it is.
Don't forget the astute class also carries tomahawk cruise missiles so they could attack military targets and civilian infrastructure right across Argentina. That is argentina's greatest fear.
Typical range for the Meteor is roughly 100nm at 2650kts. Some more info:
-Alt 0 - 12000ft, Max speed ~1710kt (2.58 Mach)
-Alt 12000 - 24000ft, Max speed ~1870kt (2.95 Mach)
-Alt 24000 - 36000ft, Max speed ~2310kt (3.82 Mach)
-Alt 36000ft +, Max speed ~2650kt (4.62 Mach)
Rough fuel burn time 105 seconds worth.
thxx
The Meteor needs it's sustainer motor modelled. Figure out a way to do it and it might be decently realistic, otherwise it's underperforming right now quite criminally.
Spot on - the overrating of the original stage 1 motor was to model the range reasonably accurately which made the missile too fast. The issue is the lack of flexibility of the missile model not allowing a long cruise stage. Now the missile barely beats AIM-C which is ridiculous!
@@LondonSteveLee Soon enough we will get a modeled meteor!
And the Meteor is capable of changing its speed mid-flight.
@@Stinger522 Really? This I never heard about.. Is there any available documentation or links you could share on this?
Also, since we are getting the Meteor in the future I am curious to see if they include its over the shoulder capability... THAT would be something to see LoL using Link-16 system plus if they do implement its Link-16 ability then we should be able to get newer versions of the Aim-120 modeled as well personally.
Having done a 6 month tour as FIRIC( Falklands islands roulement Infantry company) which all Infantry regiments do, I can definite speak with knowledge. The FIDF(Falklands defence force) are a well organised and very well armed force. The main mission would be to defend MPA until 16aa arrived from the UK. alongside the RAF Typhoons which were down there, the Argentinian coastline is covered by radar from the FI which picks up naval and airborne movements. safe to say not much can approach the islands without being picked up!
Having done QRA down the Falklands twice in my RAF career. I can confirm the aircraft can easily be airborne within 5 mins of hooter sounding.
The RAF has shrunk someone's since my grandfather flow over the Falklands, but she isn't any less professional
I Was down there 83 and 93 Top Gun guard 2 Tornadoes bombed up ready to go 24/7.
Once the radar station go down the British would launch a patrol flight
rgr Cedric
Lucky enough to see British Typhoon's at the pitch black open day at my home in Darwin Australia today, beautiful planes.
Not sure why you've changed the Meteor. It can travel around Mach 5 though. Even the open source information says "over Mach 4" and that it can travel around 130 miles (maximum).
I don't understand why you've nerfed the missile so much when the original was closer to the truth than your mod.
The Typhoon looks majestic soaring in the sky.
Interesting video guys. I don’t think scenario 2 is very realistic however but still an entertaining watch. The likelihood the UK government wouldn’t have intelligence of an upcoming attack isn’t realistic.
Also the second those EWR are taken out planes would be scrambled, and that’s not to mention the planes already flying CAP in the first place.
It is crazy however that 4 Typhoons can effectively lay waste to the whole Argentine Air Force
There's barely an Air Force. That's the main thing.
True but the point was to give Argentina every conceivable chance. Having the RAF fighters on the ground, but ready to scramble, maybe simulates the best case readiness once EWR goes down.
@@vokovom-u9332 the UK government works very hard to make that stay true
You do realise that those four phoons have 13 hard points each that's 13 weapons per aircraft. With meteor it's not even a fight its a massacre.
SIS and Military Intelligence would be warning of a Argentine move against the FI well in advance. The minute the radars go offline, the Typhoons would be lighting up. The Argentine A4s would be brave and stupid to go up against them.
This was a really good video. RAF really took care of business, even when handicapped with some disabled early warning units. Argentina would have to send a larger strike to sweep or draw the Typhoons farther out so their bombers could come in and soften things up for the Infantry or come up with a plan to keep the Typhoons grounded. Great flying by everyone, you guys are experts at this! Well Done!
Even the original CAPTOR RADAR has first-rate long range search, superb track while scan - and look down is up there with some of the best AESA RADARs - A Typhoon jockey could pop up to 40,000ft and pretty much map out the whole attack. They are that good. Over Syria the RAF pilots were providing amazing detail on GROUND targets and vehicle movements - the RADAR is much, much better than is modelled in DCS - it's all marketing and politics - rubbished for not being AESA but it's incredibly good. As for METEOR the reason the original game model was so overrated (in terms of speed) is it couldn't model METEOR's sustain motor - the range was actually pretty accurate. Now you've down-rated that motor to correctly approximate the speed of METEOR - you've underrated its range drastically. Setting it somewhere in-between would be fair.
here's a fun fact: the captor-m doesnt scan like any other mechanical radar as in top to bottom. instead it searches by skipping one bar then going up again, the skipping one, then going up again, etc
Correct. It's the main reason why developing an AESA for Typhoon has been so difficult because the PESA is unbelievable.
@@skatman3278 PESA? what PESA? there is the Captor-M which is a MSA radar and the Captor-E which is an AESA radar
The Typhoon in DCS is massively nerfed in general.
@@zahnatom Yes CAPTOR-M is not PESA - however it seems the UK government lost their patience with the squabbling over RADAR specs amongst the Eurofighter consortium and went all-in with the UK-centric ECRS Mk2 project - the Italians have seen the light and signed up too. A bit like when the British lost faith with the EMPAR being developed for Horizon - the Europeans wouldn't bend toward British requirements - so the UK went their own way and came up with the superior SAMPSON for Type 45. Coincidently EMPAR is PESA and SAMPSON AESA!
There are 2 Typhoons over my house at the moments. Amazing aircraft. But with even more amazing missiles, which gives them an edge over nearly every other plane in existence.
If the RAF lost their two EWR posts, wouldn't they have launched the tanker and 2 of the typhoons to operate as Airbourne radar/first strike? And move the patrol ship off the west island asap to try cover the lost coverage?
Not surprised about the result. My country has really neglected most of its military for over 30 years.
I did my initial type rating training on the 787 with a man who led the attack on the Sheffield I believe.
this is British propaganda at it's finest! they would stand no change against Argentina, 4 Eurofighters, one lost and everything becomes very speculative! the Brits achieve never something without US!! Argentina could beat them easely!!
@@Ezekiel903 Do your history boy, we’ve already beaten them 8000 miles from home.
Is it me or is it just hilarious that 4 Typhoons can destroy then entire Argentine AF. Not knocking the Argentines but my god those typhoons are scary.
Aye it`s a joke !!!!!
@@fasfas8999 What?
The Technical University of Delft, Netherlands, took a closer look at the Meteor missile. WIth range, their final statement was the range was 280 kilometres with potential for more. So 160 miles still is a very careful estimate. It probably goes even further, maybe depending on the situation. A shot at a flying practice target by the Royal AirForce was succesful at a range of 162 miles.
According to open sources the Meteor has a cruise speed "in excess of mach 4" with osint sources generally settling on a max speed of around mach 4.5
It would really depend on altitude. No missile that size will reach Mach 4+ at sea level. At 40000ft no problem.
this depends on various factors, like a sniper shot if you have experience in that field, from humidity,wind, altitude, everything has an impact on your bullet and therefore the precision, that's valid for everything
have you ever won a war without US support?? the past century? the US would came to late to rescue your ass😄, no, sorry, just kidding, i love doing it and watch how people reacts, most are very fast offended, especially when i speak about their country! Now serious question, what is your military background? have you ever been on a foreign assignment? Are you in the air force, army or navy, or maybe intelligence or strategic analysts, i don't need specific locations so don't panic I can't spot you? or don't you have a military background, it doesn't mean anything because I've seen people without a military background showing great experience and relatively realistic simulations, just curious I'll comment when I know what your background is! i would really appreciate your info
@@Cavthena yeah you're absolutely right, mach 4.5 is obviously very dependent on the scenario in which they're fired. Presumably that's only achievable when fired at high altitude and high speed.
Lets face it, if Argentina didn't try to reinvade in the 2010s when Britain no longer had a carrier fleet then it's never going to try now we have two new carriers so the defences in place have already proven their worth!
Never underestimate an opponent’s ability to make mistakes.
Oh the carriers that until recently had no planes on them? O and BTW the Prince of Wales is out of comission due to faulty construction. So the UK has only 1 carrier.
I think we actually have just 6 operational A-4AR in all Argentina, military spending was cut from head to toes in the last 20 years or so
Not like military expenditure is at the top of our priorities right now. Good material for a simulation, but not going to happen anytime soon, nor do I want it to. Saludos.
I guess the useful thing there is that so long as its neighbours leave it well alone, it can skip a few legacy generations and when the economy recovers, if its seen as a priority, modernisation money would get it back up for 20 years of cutting edge.
Though, tbf, drones and SAM sites seem to be just as effective unless you really want to invade something.
@@davidspencer7254 The current goverment hates the armed forces, thats why their budget is so low.
Which is a good thing... Unless you are actively in danger of being invaded [you're not] if the military budget can be cut and you still aren't in danger of being invaded, then the military budget should be cut.
It might be interesting to play that mission again, but without the AI there to screw it up. might be hard to get that many players together to run it though...
Very good video.
Regarding the Argentine attack, it would be escorted by three or more electronic warfare LEARJETs, and even if the radars on the islands are cancelled, the satellites would see them arrive and raise the alarm, obviously this is just a game...
Cheers
Brit's would loose!! no question about that
@@Ezekiel903 why though, since I AM nonetheless questioning your reasoning? 🙂
@@Ezekiel903 RAF Typhoon force would Curb Stomp them. The two Radar Station on West Falkland are on the tops of Mountains (Byron Heights to the north is at around 1600 - 1700 feet while Mount Alice is 1200 feet. The radar horizon at sea level from Byron is around 50 nautical miles, for Mount Alice, just under 40. Anything at that range will be detected including ships. The only way that the radars can be taken out is by a commando attack from a Submarine and even if both radars can be taken out at the same time there is no way that an Air Attack can reach RAF Mount Pleasant before the Typhoons are scrambled.
Fun watching you guys do these videos, but question what exactly does notching mean? I know it something to do with dodging the missile but not sure how. Thanks!
I don't understand the missile Nerf. Even OS information states Meteor goes "above Mach 4" and has a max operational range of about 130 miles. The original ones are closer to open source accuracy than yours are and the OS ones are likely to be under-reported by a large margin anyway. I could understand Nerfing them a little but yours are barely any better than a AIM-120C when the reality is that the Meteor is superior still to the 120D.
I know in this scenario it made little difference, but it could against a near-peer.
However, thank you for running this scenario! Really cool to see. IRL, the lack of check in from both the West-Coast EWR would likely trigger a scramble.
Without real world data and actual verifiable sources, that entire rambling means nothing. If anything, the position that mods tend to be overly "patriotic" is the most correct one based on every single mod that's out there.
@@WolfVidya incorrect. Go and look at the marketing material by MBDA themselves and you'll see this. In fact, go and look at literally any OS piece of information and you'll find this. I never denied that the original mod is overkill, so your straw man comment is meaningless and irrelevant without an actual argument.
@@WolfVidya may as well just not have anything in the game without real world data and actual verifiable sources then, yeah? You know, given that's your metric. Typhoon shouldn't even be in the game since we can't verify every aspect of it. Same goes for Gripen, Rafale, F-22, and pretty much any aircraft still in service.
...or, what we could do, is use the open source information that's available to us to create a 'best guess' scenario? You know, like literally every single video GR upload?
@@skatman3278 Ah yes, the marketing material written by the same people that want to sell and promote the product, best source.
@@WolfVidya you do know marketing material isn't allowed to just lie, right? And if it did on something like Meteor there would be a huge furore about it - given multiple air forces use it, and literally every single one is over the moon with it, I'd suggest it's not lying.
Furthermore, I also stated "any OS source". Meaning you can go and find some that disagrees if you want? You know, instead of crying on a RUclips comments section showing your ignorance?
Wow. I didn't think they'd be able to win that. Impressive.
I'm liking the scramble on detection idea. Perhaps no AI to mess it up? I would also be interested in a GR first strike video where older aircraft attack a couple of airfields and weaken the enemy force, but if you can make AI scramble on detection that could be good too. Once GR strike is complete reset the mission missing the airframes and structures that got hit during the strike and use it as public blue vs GR red funday.
They need the AI though as they don't have many real players; plus this isn't a particularly realistic scenario anyway let's face it as the British ground forces aren't modelled, the Argentines don't have nearly that many combat-capable ships or planes in real life and the moment the radars suddenly and unexpectedly went silent to Argie "special forces", the RAF and other British forces there would immediately get suspicious and go on full alert (IF said radar-sites went down at all, as those radar sites are gonna be pretty well-defended & well-secured, the terrain leading up to them's open and pretty rough and the local civilians will all be pro-British and can spot an Argie a mile away)
Thanks Cap! Very interesting. Falklands doesn’t get much attention anymore but it’s fascinating.
its pretty windy here but yeah quite an interesting place...
Crazy how you’ve shown then accommodation I’ve stayed in watching the typhoons take off every day whilst on the RIC
Hey GR, theres been a pretty significant update to the su-30 mod by the Codename Flanker folks. I would love to see yall do a video about it.
Wil investigate.
It would be fairier a match between our football selections xD
Some extra data for they IA-63 Pampa trainer: There are 28 in service, 10 being from the Pampa III version. Greets!
thxx
Could you do a naval version of this. The UK Typhoons vs Argentine fleet, after the airwave is wiped out.
If I am not mistaken, one EF in Trainerconfig shot down two either F22 or F35 in a simulated battle. Amazing Antiair fighters, thats what they where originaly designed for. Fun fact: The german EFs lack any precise air to ground capability to take out specific groundtargets like an isis checkpoint. They can bring down the whole block with JDAMs or Cruisemissiles. But no AGM like Brimstone.
I wonder if they would be able to sink the cargoships with those armaments. ----- looked it up: Taurus would be able to identify targets by visual reference. Stormshadow has the same capabilities.
Would love to see more of them. Maybe a modern day defense of the funda gap? Skaled down or modern german army against soviet invasion?
1983 I was watching different aircraft at a bombing range. That day Marine A4 were hitting some old armor. A range safety officer drove up to the fence I was standing at. He asked if anyone was stupid enough go past the fence. Nice guy, lots of jokes. Then he had some radios and started giving a play by play. He would tell me what plane and bearing. What weapon. Then a pilot flew right over us at about 25 feet upside down. He got some altitude then rolled upright dropping a bomb. He had some problem and smacked into the mountain. No chute. Show was over for that day.
10 May, 1982? Twenty Nine Palms? Pilot made it out.
@@thelordofcringe
That could have been it. I was stationed at the diesel and mogas fuel farm down the hill from the airfield. Great view of the bombing range and tank practice range.
The Meteor seems either too nerfed or your Aim-120D's are still way OP (or both). With no sustainer on the 120D's, they likely are not longer legged than a Meteor
rgr
@@xyz-hj6ul they were trying to model what an attack by Argentina with its current air power would look like, against extant British opposition.
It's not nationalist egotism. It's a "what if" scenario. If it was an ego trip, they would have put the RAF strength up to 12 Typhoons and the Royal Navy would have 3 type 45s on permanent patrol, with a couple of Astute class attack submarines off the Argentine coast to sink the transport ships.
Don't be so salty.
It's worth remembering that Raytheon proposed AMRAAM-ER for the RAF requirement. AMRAAM-ER was essentially AMRAAM-D-3. It couldn't even get close to the requirement...
Raytheon then had to dream up a ramjet powered AMRAAM-ER called FMRAAM to attempt to meet the requirement. That proposal rightly lost to Meteor...
Anyone even thinking AMRAAM D comes close to Meteor really needs to explain how given that it couldn't come close to the original requirement...
It has been thought for sometime that there are land based Harpoons on the Islands and a lurking SSN within 48hrs of the Islands. Also, re scenario 1, to quote the movie Battle of Britain "leave the playing fighters. Its the bloody bombers we want". The Pampas are the ground attackers and aiming to take out the very valuable radars. With no AAMs left the Arg strike would be successful and thus the islands would be more vulnerable for follow on. Good effort though.
Even without Meteors the Typhoons can just use their AMRAAM short-range missiles, and after that they can use their 27mm cannons, and after THAT they can return to base, refuel and re-arm and go back up again, which can be done very quickly. Wouldn't be many Pampas left by then, and even if there were and they took advantage of the Typhoons being "down for water"? That's where Sky-Sabre comes in
Just a suggestion - it would be cool if the intro/weapons/prediction happened in the “pre combat” phase where everyone is taking off & flying to the AO. I find myself skipping to the simulation & just waiting for the combat to start, maybe others do too. Could be an easy way to fill the space. Love the vids either way!
I love it, someone screws up: "Get another one ".😂
The AWR will be out for one hour before anyone notices.
Looks like the Argentine special forces attack hit during tea time.
There I was thinking that the Typhoons would be running out of Meteors soon......until I found out they can carry up to 14 each! Gulp!
The only thing you are forgetting is that anyone on West Falkland with a cell phone who sees Argentine jets from the shore line or the mountains or wherever can just call the police or Mount Pleasant directly. Then thats it game is up.
Great to see the Falklands are still well defended.
Firing $1.5M missiles at 2 generation plus old planes you likely couldn't sell for $100K each
But this is the situation these days for other reasons - we have $1M+ SAM missiles - which can be swarmed with $500 off-the-shelve commercial drones carrying grenades. The west need to come up with decent cheap point-defence systems PDQ. Current systems either don't work (cough, CWIS) or are too expensive. Sky Sabre is a great start using relatively inexpensive ASRAAMS - but they are still too expensive to waste on drones! We need to make more use of the Starstreak platform - "modulise" it even more - package them in greater numbers and guide them by radar. Such a system could be fitted to ships and boats too.
@@LondonSteveLee Agreed CIWS systems need to scale all the way down to mounted on the backs of APCs and "spam missiles" need to be far cheaper.
Interesting. Good fun listening and watching. 👍😊
New meteor speed looks good and reasonable at all altitudes. People will come at you with this or that number but it's well within the "probably as close as it can be in DCS right now" range.
noted
We just need to keep a type 45 there. Job done.
What I was thinking.
If 12 had been acquired as planned, they would have probably
I was hoping for some ground to air action but it seems Mighty Meteor + Typhoon = Wipeout !!!
The Argentine air force really did a number on British shipping in 1982...gruesome stuff.
Was the outcome ever in doubt ?
I don’t know about the ROE, maybe it would give the Argentinians a fighting chance if you require the RAF to visually ID the bandits prior to engaging (noting of course the right to self defence if the RAF fighters get fired upon)?
its not a highly active flight route if its not RAF its hostile
IFF solves that problem. Typhoons ping the unknowns as they search and track. No response = kill it. No visual needed. If it's a civilian aircraft, it will be in comms with ATC and it will be following all the normal rules and be on known radar track. So these hostiles won't be confused with civvies.
I wonder if the typhoons came back to rearm with air to ground weapons would they have destroyed all the ships as well. see a total domination by the RAF
Byron Heights, Mount Alice and Mount Kent are the EWRs. They're now RRH installations. Remote Radar Head.
thx Mr Pritchard
That BVR (Beyond Visual Range) capability is a huge advantage.
You forgot to add in the RN's Astute or Trafalgar class hunter-killer sub that's always on station in the South Atlantic.
There are two types of ship in the sea, Submarines, and Targets....lol
Don't think submarines are in the game unfortunately
@@1IbramGaunt aaah I see!
A few days ago the Argentine Armed Forces were dissolved, in facts. Even more than before, budget was set to a minimum and this will be maintained god knows until when. Great video tho.
With a maximum of a dozen operational Skyhawks & Pampa jet trainers, I don't think there's much to worry about. If China sends a carrier strike group to steal the Falklands, that would be different but they'd have to get past the USN & Chilean navy/air force first.
You'd think as soon as the West Island radar picture is lost alarms would be set off, if not a CAP takes off to take a look.
Love the Skyhawk that couldn't reisit going in for a swim on the way in!
Few years ago I read that one scenario that caused worry was an airliner declaring an emergency and landing at Stanley, delivering special forces to disable the Typhoons.
Surely it would be surrounded by Royal Marines?
@@CIMAmotor a fair number yes (or raf regiment). Whether that would be enough to prevent a few aircraft being disabled is another question.
The failure to build a decent number of warships and use patrol vessels as frigates is pretty well exposed here...
Well Britain like most of nato just relies on the us to protect them mostly
Absolutely, hopefully things will change and we will build more of the newer frigates, the basic ones are an absolute bargain and only buying 5 is criminal, the expensive ASW ones should be for the carriers and the cheaper general purpose ones can do other stuff, like defending the Falklands
To be fair though it should still simply be the same system it used to be of proper real warships like frigates, destroyers or submarines rotating their deployments down there
A single Type 45 based in the Falklands (Which is SOP) can track every single plane the Argentine air force has, then has the capability to engage every single one of them. The Type 45 sensor suite can detect when one of those Argentine planes leave Argentine air space. Really don't need extra resources down there.
1,200 soldiers are based on the Falklands. This includes a detachment from 7th Air Defence Group operating the Sky Sabre, Army signals detachment that operates electronic warfare equipment.
The current Argentine military makes the current Russian military look like super soldiers in comparison but you can't really involve all those aspects into a game.
@@MrNigzy23 Yeah and the us navy is nearby too
I think anything you do to make the Missile's (The Meteors in this case) more realistic is a good thing lol so I like it good work!👍
Lol now you just have to get those AIM-120D's* at a range closer to 120 miles ;)
But they made Meteor less realistic?
@@skatman3278 eh it was too fast before, now lol it is slower... I'm sure it's not an easy task to get it just right. Probably will take time
@@Anarchy_420 yes, but it was closer to the open source information we have available before than it is now. Now its barely any better than a 120C.
@@skatman3278 I disagree and have no fucking clue as to what your talking about👌
@@skatman3278 my bad man, had just woken up and hadn't had coffee or smoked yet🙃
Your saying The Meteor used to be more realistic-- yes and no. It was too fast before lol now it's too slow! We have to keep in mind this is a simulator working with mods and it will take time to achieve "close to perfection" Its still a work in progress😁✌
The only thing I'd like to see changed, and it's a very minor thing, is that the Argentinian troop transports would more likely be a form of cruise ship rather than bulk tanker. I may be focussing on the wrong things here. lol
Drinking pina coladas by the pool getting ready to kill some Brits and it’s funny the us used cruise ships to ferry personnel during ww2 over to Europe lol
The meteor is a ramjet or ramjet like rocket. It needs speeds over mach 3 to combust the fuel with atmospheric oxygen.
I came here to save your time as an argentinian:
Yes, yes it can.
Don't know about Argentine, but they are on the decline, just you wait :) Greetings from Belgrade drinking sweet sweet yerba mate!!!
@@ComradeAndrej who? the brits? i really don't mind about the falklands affair,pretty sure it would be handed worse by our government considering everything, have a good day from Buenos Aires.
@@ComradeAndrej The people on those islands are NOT Argentinians. If Argentina ever invaded (successfully) they would basically be kidnapping and enslaving those people.
A more interesting scenario might be to hypothesize that Argentina buys a squadron or two of JF-17s armed with PL-12s and match those against the Falklands flight armed with Meteor missiles.
Would be interesting to see, but I'm sure if it did happen, the UK would respond in-kind by placing another couple of Typhoons down there. Perhaps when we have more of them, a couple of F-35s.
Hope you mean PL15's; EF with meteors would absolutely crush JF17'S with PL12's
@@92HazelMocha I considered that but it's not clear if the JF17 is equipped with PL15s.
@@skatman3278 Regarding the scenario, my guess is that with only four fighters if they suspect that an attack is imminent they will try to keep one airborne on patrol using its radar to look for low-flying threats. One with the pilot in cockpit ready to take off immediately. One at a lower level of readiness but still able to take off in maybe 10 to 15 minutes. While the fourth will have recently landed from its last patrol and will be undergoing a little light maintenance while being refuelled but should still be able to be turned around in 30 minutes.
They only need to hold out for between 24 and 48 hours until reinforcements can arrive from the UK; probably comprising a further 12 fighters with tanker support, one (or more) 747s filled with troops as well as a couple of AWACS aircraft.
@@Akm72 The blk3's will be but the Blk1 and 2's are not. It should be noted that the only JF17 model countries are looking to import is the blk3 model, so if it was adopted it would be alongside the PL15, here I'm mostly speaking about Iraq's JF17 deal as the Argentinian one is largely speculative.
Didn't watch the entire video so you might have mentioned this during the bits I skipped, however the Typhoon has, as far as I am aware, never been shown carrying more than 8 missiles at once. In addition the standard load-out for the Falklands flight seems to be (based on photo's and video) two drop tanks, four AMRAAM and four ASRAAM (the Typhoon should still be capable of reaching 50,000 ft and Mach 1.6 in this configuration). I doubt the RAF is in any hurry to deploy Meteor to the Falklands as there isn't really the need.
That's true, although equally, Argentina doesn't have 23 serviceable Fighting Hawks available in one go and I doubt the RAF has 4 Typhoons always serviceable either.
I think Meteor may have made it down there now - not sure, but Tbh, Meteor is likely overkill against the dross Argentina has anyway.
I suspect that the real life threat assessment suggests that the Argentinean air force would not deploy its entire inventory of aircraft all at once.
@@ScienceChap which, not counting helicopters or stuff with propellers, consists of about 4 airworthy Skyhawks and maybe 6 or 7 Pampa trainers
@@skatman3278 Typhoon is quite a reliable bird. Don't recall seeing them go U/S much when I served in the Falklands on my Third Tour there. Phantoms in the 1980's and the Tornado F Mk 3 in the 1990's different story.
May have been mentioned below, but I'm sure Mt Pleasant would have at least one Euro Fighter up top if the two forward radar sites were down - especially if they knew they had been taken out, signifying a potential assault.
Just sayin' - cracking video though. Every time I see you guys fly, I fire up DCS again - then I realise how bad I am at it and shut it down and play F1 2021!
Thanks for all these hypotheticals - I love 'em.
i was on the merchant navy ship that took the southern radar base down (in bits) to be set up by the REME ship was used as a accommodation vessel /R&R for the squaddies. we had a pub type pool table (ON A SHIP)
when after we sailed and told what mission was the skipper showed us the charts of where we was tying up to a buoy for the duration
we saw all of land marks marked on charts for us to enjoy for 6 months
dismal swamp
disused whaling station
disused sealing station
nearest house 25 miles away,
of course no trees
some how no one killed themselves (beer at 20p a can a major help)
Great video, GR 👍
One (actually two...) question(s) though:
Would the Typhoons have been able to rtb?
Would the British scramble all four at once rather than in 2 pairs, or even one by one at a time interval of 5-10 minutes, to create a sort of a "chainsaw" attack?
Yup al poss in real life.
the British would stand no change, it depends only how much effort the Argentinian will put in, and brit's cant fight without any us SUPPORT!
@@Ezekiel903 I think it's pretty clear you're an anti-British troll at this point and probably a triggered Argie
@@Ezekiel903 well…clearly they can fight without US support, seeing as 4 RAF jets took out literally *_THE ENTIRE ARGENTINIAN AIR FORCE_* singlehandedly, only taking a single casualty to friendly fire
@@Ezekiel903 The British will end the indian support of russia without US support. We're already with you now to look for answers to the upcoming water/food wars. Many of you will die, but we will live. We won't be seeing you in the next century, but Britain will still be the green and pleasant land your fore fathers dreamt about.
The ships radar Would have spotted them if they were at sea
24:39 I love the reference to American Pie.
I love the idea of canooing in the South Atlantic.
Bollocks to that mate, that water is furryking freezing.
The Argentines couldn't attack the islands by air right now as they have nothing to attack with...only their Navy could do so but would be very limited as they have a lack of spare parts, no ship based Missile systems, ships from the mid 1980s and severe internal military problems. Argentina is in no shape for a conflict. Force a conflict on Argentina and they would fight tooth and nail despite these problems...but they have bigger problems with their economy right now for any Military Adventurism 🤔
Tottaly accurate. Argentines forces are very weakened. Greets from Argentina.
It's still interesting to see though.
Even their navy doesn't have enough fuel for sustained operations. Argentina practically has zero defence budget right now.
I think the Meteor was fine, however another missile I've seen used a lot in simulations is the AIM 120D in the US Vs x opponent and etc.
I believe that could largely have a lot of tweaking done to make it more accurate. From your video it seemed it burned for far too long, when in real life it's usually about 6-10, and so that makes it too strong in the simulations. Aswell as that the top speed is about Mach 4, not the insane amounts I've seen it achieve in the videos.
In this video the Meteor seemed inferior to the AIM 120D, which totally isn't the same in real life since the Amraam can't mantain its speed as well due to lacking a ramjet. The AIM 120D definitely needs a tweak to make the rocket motor burn for only 6 to 10 seconds, and not the meteor level burn and speed sustainability it's achieved.
AIM 260 has corrected that problem i think...Due to be deployed soon... and can reach Hypersonic speed of Mach 5.
The official top speed is "Over Mach 4" theres certainly some classified further performance margin there as is done when describing torpedo and submarine max speeds.
I think the Meteor nerfs were okay in this simulation to make it more fun but its probably too nerfed against other peer opponents. The missile seemed to be really struggling to match the Skyhawks evasive turns likely due to how far back the engine has been throttled. Also topping out at Mach 3.5 at max range is probably a bit of a poor comparator when it would actually reach Mach 4 to 5 range pretty quick if fired at targets within 40/50 miles. Limits of the software to simulate variable thrust weapons I guess, though interested how DCS models the classic soviet ship/submarine launched ASM which did a mostly subsonic approach then a final sprint to mach 2-3 when approaching CIWS range.
Lmao The AIM-120D's* range obviously classified however public information says 100-120 mile range! Realistically its closer to 120 miles 193 kilometers! Its even stated that the AIM-120D has a longer burn time (bout twice as long) than AIM-120C!
(The only thing I can agree with you on is The Meteors speed is Mach 5)
@@willwozniak2826 what do you mean problem? Lol np with AIM-120D! Yes AIM-260 Mach 5 with a range of 180 miles!
Here is credible information about The AIM-120D-- ruclips.net/video/gPJIpK8K3Vs/видео.html
*Btw I don't believe in previous vids where The AIM-120D was used did it exceed Mach 4 so not sure why your saying that??
Wouldn't the Brits in the 2nd scenario knowing the EFR had been damaged have set up a picket line with patrol boats and or have a bird in the air? I am a total novice but thoroughly enjoy your channel. I was an Aviation Med Tech in the USN back in the late 80's VF-191 F-14''s.
Great vid - thanks. Can I ask how you get to fly aircraft that aren't in DCS? Quite often I watch your videos and you're flying aircraft that aren't available.
The key question is if the eurofighters could rtb at the end of the scenario and rearm and go back out for the cargoships.
If the eurofighters were neutralised the complete loss of the argentine air force may be considered a worthwhile loss.
At least the german EFs would have a hard time killing those ships. The only have JDAM and Taurus Cruismissiles. The brits have Stormshadow and Brimstone II in addition to that. I dont know if those are capable to hit moving targets / are powerfull enough to sink a freighter.
They could, the Sky Sabre battery puts out a 60km radius air defence bubble over RAF Mount Pleasant, no Argentine aircraft would be able to touch the Typhoons once they RTB
@@emergcon You'd be looking for hitting radars, bridges etc. with Brimstone to disable and Paveway IV to kill. Storm shadow isn't suitable for moving targets.
I think you guys should model the main attack scene from the new topgun film 🙂
ruclips.net/video/Es-mgr-ZtAM/видео.html
Thanks guys ... missed that one for some reason 🙃
HOW does this only have 546 likes?! These videos are awesome!
Should make them wait 5 minutes after detection to scramble the Eurofighters to account to time to pilots to get into their G suits, get to their planes, and cold startup. 5 minutes in a surprise attack like this could make a pretty big difference.
There is no surprise when 2 radars have been knocked out. The pilots would be on cockpit alert.
This 2nd scenario is a crock of crap.
IF just one of those EWR’s on West Falkland dropped off-line, it would instantaneously lead to a scramble of the alert Typhoons.
Plus the RAF would have known about an Argentine build up, prep’ & launch because of the surveillance assets, in addition to EWR’s.
"2nd scenario is a crock of crap" Kind of correct, but unless they nerf the British response it all plays out exactly like the _first_ scenario, so there's not a lot of point. Useful for showing that even with every advantage - even an unreasonable one - given to the Argentine forces, the gap in capability is still so great that they are simply unable to exploit it.
It is, but it's also interesting and just represents GR trying to even the score a little. The very fact that Argentina has 23 Fighting Hawks in the air in the first place is unrealistic, but it's still fun to watch.
please, how will you know Argentina will send all his fighters, the Brits have zero change to win a full scale war, depends only how much effort the Arg will put in the fight! if they will take it at all cost, the Brit's loose faster as the US can come to rescue! i never saw Brit's winning a ware WITHOUT US in the past century!
@@Ezekiel903 stop talking shit, ya lying dweeb.
@@Ezekiel903 idiot
One thing you forgot is Argentine Naval Aviation. They still operate a handful of Super Étendards with at least five being former French Super Étendard Modernisé. Similar to the Skyhawks, a lack of spare parts has kept these grounded is my understanding but should be accounted for due to their anti-ship capabilities.
As of 2022, the Argentine naval aviation is cancelled.
The Super Etendart Modernice purchased from France in 2015 and delivered in 2019, are unable to operate due to the UK embargo regarding ejector seats.
super etendarts modernise wasnt airworthy at the time, they have been purchased as source of spare parts for its own super etendarts
@@FranciscoPartidas The idea of the Navy was to put the fleet back in flight and increase that number, if 5 were purchased, three for operations and two for spare parts, but since the ejector seat is from Martin Baker, the UK has seized the spare parts of the ejector seats, more exactly their rockets and their operation is not safe, in fact at the bases, they are there as a mere paperweight..
@@fernandorosati9450 they'd still not be much of match for Typhoons anyway, that'd see them coming thanks to the radar on the islands
I was going fly the F14 tonight but will watch this instead.....
Forgot about the nuke subs on the area that can blow Argentina and spin to dust
I am knocking a few points on realism off, at no time would they just have all of their Eurofighters sitting in the hanger idle with the pilots sitting there itching to slam the throttle to afterburner the moment that something is seen on radar. It would take them at least 2 minutes to scramble.
When the radars go cold, the jets would be put on high alert ready to lauch, if not even flying staggered patrols.
noted
Even if Argentina could somehow take the islands and it not be a pyrrhic victory with their forces wiped out in the process, retaking the islands would be a formality.
Any Argentina/UK rematch right now would basically be a time travel battle with Argentina having (assuming maintenance and supply sorted) a reduced number of basically what they had in 1982 and us having 40 years of technological advantage.
A couple of T45 destroyers back in 1982 would’ve saved almost all the lives lost back then. No ships sunk as exocets shot down, no airforce landing supplies to the Argentines on Falklands. Or carrying out bombing runs. All the Helicopters being available from the Atlantic Conveyor and all the Harriers available for purely air support.
So today with F35s and Apaches and subs with cruise missiles all on top of that, and an inferior Argentine force compared to 1982, it would be an absolute massacre.
Argentinians seriously considering to acquire JF-17 block 3 fighters with possibly PL-15E missiles would add some teeth to the Argentinian attacks.
True although it's still nothing a well-armed well-flown Typhoon couldn't easily defeat
Excellent!
Would all four Typhoons be ready for immediate scramble?
Yes, they are on QRF. I believe they are all to be in the air within 3 mins. Of course if the Argentines get very lucky one could be being maintained, but only one would be worked on at once
@@tomsoki5738 Thanks. I'd have thought modelling on the assumption that the Argies find a way to know when one of them would be in maintenance would be an interesting scenario.
*Defence, not "defense". We're British, not American...
You're wasting your time - Cap cannot even pronounce "aitch".
thx
How did you guys get the eurofighter working. In my case I'm unable to bind something to my hotas
I found a solution in the ED forums, someone linked a file which fixes it.
Just in case you are interested, in the late 1970s there was rising tension between Argentina and Chile going on about some territorial dispute for the Beagle channel. Although there was no real combat involved, many times Chilean aircraft would sonic boom over Argentinian airfields, effectively invading restricted air space. Argentinians did the same though. A confrontation would have been very interesting: Chile had mirage Vs, f-5s freedom, canberras and hawker hunters in service, and these force might have been pitted against Argentinian mirage iiis, a-4s skyhawk, Super Etandards, iai daggers and canberras. Argentina also kept in service some f-86 sabres as well.
Pretty sure the Brits have nuclear subs out there also...
Yes but I don’t think they can model that yet
This scenario would have played out much differently if the Argentinians had attacked during tea time.
Tiffin' Time 🤣
attack brits during tea? no-one will be that stupid that would result in take no-one alive and nuke all of major cities, NEVER repeat NEVER try and get in the way of a brit and his cuppa
For the second sim,his dud the special curves get to the ewr sites,by boat would have been spotted and defence’s at the sites would have killed them,by plane would have be picked up on radar.
Realistically they would have had an AP or CAP running with two aircraft if there was even a hint of a build up of troops /planes on the Argentine coast or in range - so they would be spotted much earlier.
No matter what, Argentina lost the chance to take the islands in 83. They had everything in their favor and blew it.
82?
@@chrisaskin6144 Probably, OR he means that they should have waited till 83, which would have meant no carriers and no amphibious assault crafts= good luck regaining the islands then.
You mean 1982, however if they attacked in 1978 the Labour party would have probably given them the islands and waiting until 1984 would have meant the UK would have sold HMS Hermes and HMS Invincible leaving them with no platform for Sea Harrier and GR3. Either way 1982 was a TERRIBLE decision. We still had two through-deck cruisers and Thatcher needed distractions back home.
@@LondonSteveLee It's generally the Conservatives that downsize the military.
Love the fact that Thatcher wanted to send Ark Royal and had to be reminded she'd decommissioned it already....
@@davidspencer7254 In 1979 the Conservatives were having to deal with a country bankrupted by Labour.
It would be really interesting to see a video showing what the proposed F-16’s would have in Ukraine against the Russians, as they’re allegedly going to be sent by the US
Either F-16AMs or C Block 25-50 surplus or JAS-39C gripens
We did some minor experimentation with this: Ukraine Uses Danish F-16s: ruclips.net/video/17Pikrp0QaY/видео.html
@@grimreapers that’s a bloody good video if only the gripen was in game that’d be an amazing show
please, how will you know Argentina will send all his fighters, the Brits have zero change to win a full scale war, depends only how much effort the Arg will put in the fight! if they will take it at all cost, the Brit's loose faster as the US can come to rescue! i never saw Brit's winning a ware WITHOUT US in the past century!
@@Ezekiel903 Seems like you have forgotten about the 1982 Falklands conflict, no one helped us then.
Simba needs some remedial compass training.
agree
Argentine here. My brother in christ, our government can't even cut the grass near our interprovincial routes, we've been at a budget deficit for the past 15 years and inflation is at 100%. No one will try this, the most threatening thing the country could muster are paper planes with insults. Plus, honestly, the last thing educated people in this country want to do is to go to war against NATO. Again. For no reason.
Pls no more bully :<
That said, I do like your videos. Have a like, for eternal peace in the south atlantic. Cheers.