Good video Eric. My experience with tire shops are they never ever use torque wrenches. Every time after a tire shop visit, I had to re-torque my wheel nuts. One time, I was madder than hell when I tried to loosen a wheel bolt that just won't let go because of the guy over torquing it with their air guns. Finally I had to resort to a breaker bar, and you guessed it, the bolt snapped and to make it worse this is a BMW that does not use wheel nuts, but rather wheel bolts and the snapped thread embedded in the rotor hub. To make a long story short, I spend the next 6 hours drilling out the broken bolt. From now on, I never drive my car to the tire shop, but rather put my car on jack stands and just take the tires/wheels to the shop to replace tires. Then with the new tires mounted on wheel, I took them back to my own garage to mount and re-torque the wheels myself.
One of my relatives owns a local tire shop, and they torque EVERYTHING. From cars to trailers to big boy truck wheels, everything gets snugged to below spec and torqued up to spec. Top of the line wrenches, regularly calibrated, and they even have the massive 600lb/ft 3/4" drive for big trailers. He runs a tight ship.
I had tire barn cross thread a lug on me. Had to break it to get it off. I been working on my own cars since i was 18. My wife took her car to wal mart to get tires. I couldnt get the lug loose to rotate the tires. I always take my rims to the tire shop too...saves me 5 a tire at that.
This. My local shop has cross threaded bolts and warped brand new rotors on my vehicles on multiple occasions. Now whenever I need a patch job or plug or something like that I’ve gotta take a tire off and take it to then instead of just leaving my car there for a day so I can make sure it’s torqued properly.
the torque wrench needs to turn the nut before it clicks; otherwise it may already be over-torqued. I would also mention that you have to stop turning when you hear the click.
For proper re torquing the vehicle should be lifted off the ground to eliminate loading the wheel bolts and than the wheel bolts or nuts should be loosened and torqued. This procedure insures correct centring of hub centric or lug centric or both. For example my vehicle uses lug centric wheel bolts and my wheels are hub centric, the best of both worlds.
@@dsertwq….. while your wheels are elevated off the floor install your lug nuts as snug as possible and than lower the vehicle to the floor and go ahead and torque to spec.
Eric, just posted your site for family and friends, especially for our granddaughter, far away, serving in the Marine Corps. Keep up the great work. Steve
You are absolutely correct and a keen observer, the lugs on this car were not loose when I shot the video. What I was demonstrating was the technique and the process. The process is to run the lugs down snug, not tight, and then use the torque wrench to finish them off to the proper torque, the reason this is done on the ground is to prevent the wheel from spinning too much while you are torquing the wheel. The final torque for this car would be 80 lbft, not 80 inch/lbs BTW.
@EFSOutdoors When working at the dealer I used what is called a 'torque stick' which put it in the ballpark but wasn't exact. When I worked on performance cars I treated them a bit different by torquing them by hand. It's good to get them as consistent as possible and as close to the spec as possible if you don't use a torque wrench.
Perfect. Wish more shops did this. Those torque wrenches have been what has kept me out of many shops. Good to know about the torque sticks. Wish more shops used those too. Thanks Eric.
In my experience (learned from personal catastrophes), if your wheels have ever been torqued at a shop - as in overtorqued with an impact wrench - the manufacturer's spec no longer applies, as I've had many a wheel come loose due to torquing at 80-90 ft/lbs. The only time you can use the spec is if the car is brand new, or if you've just replaced the lug bolts. I imagine what happens is that the overtorquing causes the lug bolts to stretch so that 80 ft/lbs or whatever no longer gives the required amount of force to keep the nuts from loosening. For this reason I always torque to at least 110, most of the time 120 just to be safe. It's no joke I have had many wheels come loose from torquing to spec.
The tire shop torqued my lug nuts with 150 ft/ibs (Spec. is 87, the most). How much now should I torque them? thanks. One another thought I have is: the useful force is the last tightness, overtightened nuts can go "further" to be tight, not go "tighter" to be tight...which means the spec still applies...any thoughts?
@AGreedyTree Depends on how you use them I suppose but the rule is that quality tools are always a good investment, cheep tools often cost money in the long run.
Carbon buildup on the valves and intake. Diesel trucks idle for extended periods because they need to be hot to operate efficiently, these engines are designed to idle for long periods where as gas engines are not.
From what I've heard using lubricants of any kind on studs or wheel bolts is a no no. I've had the same problem you described on some cars and believe the problem is a result of corrosion buildup. The only way I know of dealing with this properly is to run a thread chaser over the threads and replace the lug nuts. It is rarely done however and studs break from this from time to time as a result. I suppose it is a judgment call.
To be fair, he clearly said to put the bolts or nuts on snug first, not tight. Snug here means way less than rated. In the video the lugs were already on, and the torque wrench pull was just a visual and audible demonstration of how the torque wrench works. Torque sticks work, because of how an impact wrench works. An impact wrench imparts VERY small and short "knocks" on a rigid object. As the actual travel of a single impact is VERY short (otherwise wrenching a stuck bolt would break yout wrist as the wrench twisted out of your hand) - an impact wrench is incapable of applying mentionable torque force on a springy/flexing object (it just flexes that very short bit and springs right back). Torque sticks are made from spring steel, and designed to flex at a fixed torque rating - hence the working mechanism of the impact wrench cannot make it rotate any further. It just flexes and springs back. To put it on a point; A powerful impact gun might be able to undo a rusted-down 2-inch nut - but the same gun is likely not be able to screw that same nut a single revolution onto a coilspring.
2 thingz that me that let'z me & anyone else who really know automotive & especially those that don't that ur intstruction on torqueing lugnut is on point, r the factz that (1) u showed the use of (TORQUE STICKZ), & (2) just as important as The (TORQUE STICKZ) waz imploying the (STAR PATTERN) when torqueing the nutz. Very nicely done video E. Rock on captain.
Always a great idea to check you lug nut torque. I know when I go in to get my tires rotated and check my torque afterwards they all range from 40 to 80 ft/lbs which is a huge difference.
Great video as alway. U are first person I ever subscribed to. Keep doing what u are doing and u do need your own TV show. Good voice, speech and good explanations. Highest rating.
Hey Eric, just a quick remainder to viewers. Never use Torque Wrench as a breaker bar to remove lug nuts, even thou it has the reverse setting. This can eventualy bugger up your torque wrench. Hats off to you for a great choice of impact. I had mine Ingersoll now for 20 years. This bad boy never let me down yet. Also someone mentioned about wheel nuts/bolts loosening up after driving. They don't loosen up after driving. If anything, they get tighter due to heat from the rotors.
The way you demonstrated it you showed that the torque was at least 80 lbs. The nuts could have been on at 200ft lbs and it will click at 80. I always run it down by hand. If you don't move the nut at all with the torque wrench you could be over tight. And NEVER use a torque wrench to loosen fasteners.
I was just about to make that exact comment. Another note on torquing any fastener is over torquing will actually lower total clamping force exerted. It's almost like a rubber band when it is torqued correctly the fastener will stretch a very small amount 1/1,000th or even 1/10,000th of a inch. This will apply a stored energy which will hold the components together. What happens if too much torque is applied is like a rubber band tiny microscopic fractures like tears will occur this will lower the amount of energy stored lowering clamping force. I work for Firestone/Bridgestone the USA's largest automotive service provider. Here back about 14yrs ago my company conducted a test on mechanical fasteners particularly wheel studs as we were having a large amount of insurance claims over wheels falling off customers cars. This alarmed us as we had just put into action a new policy of "double torquing" in which a second employee would double check that all the lug nuts were tightened to specification. Even though we had put this policy into practice across all 5,000 stores nation wide we still had an unusual amount of claims. Upon further review and testing we discovered that "Over torquing" not under torquing of the fasteners was the cause of almost all of our claims. Now all employees are required to use a nut-runner pre-torque all lug nuts, then double torque, if the lug nut does not rotate at least 1/4 turn before reaching specification. They must remove the wheel and inspect all components.
hobbles wolf this is fantastic and should be done at all shops. your very last sentence is very important. normally if they even care to recheck, they would just loosen it up a little and retorque, without caring to investigate the red flag. your explanation is great and many many many people have no idea!!!and we're talking about "professionals"!!!! the bolt stretch you speak of can be thaught of like a mercury thermostat. 0 degress is the average of the torque spec. 30 degrees and you are undertorqued. negative 30 degrees and you are overtorqued and the bolt has yielded... and there is maybe the same clamping force as the 30 degree mark. negative 40 degrees and the bolt is in risk of shearing, or the threads pull out. most and i mean most people think, "hey, the more force i put on this, the tighter it will get!" when in actuality thats only true up to a point.
Eric, Big Fan of yours. I am an Airplane mechanic. I could not help to notice that your TORQUE WRENCH was beyond its lowest setting. This might not be as important to you. But in the Airplane world, TORQUE WRENCH care is extremely important. 50 ft/lbs was your lowest setting. Your line should align with the that. Going lower than that, can and will throw you torque wrench out of calibration. Not picking at you. Staying dirty with ALL mechs. GOD Bless and Support your troops.
It's hard to say in that situation what the cause was but yes, gears and chains do wear out and cause engines to jump time. Some stock gears have a plastic coating that wears out over time. They use this coating to keep them quiet. In your case it could also be a problem with the distributor.
Ahh, i am glad to see that you have encountered this gasket failure Eric. Me and my dad are replacing mine on my 1998 Buick park avenue and so far we have been doing a good job on it. I am also glad to hear that when you get one in that you will make a video on how to replace it.
@sav7152 Yes, I would go with the factory spec. On another note I've found that some aftermarket wheels work loose after a while so it's a good idea to recheck the torque about every oil change.
Because of the "differential action" the wheel with the LEAST traction gets power. The differential is designed to allow the rear wheels to travel at different speeds while going around turns, if not one wheel would hop while turning. A posi traction still slips in turns but power is always delivered to both rear wheels even if one looses traction.
When you are done using the torque wrench store it set to 0 or its lowest setting. Storing it other than 0 or its lowest reading will ruin the calibration of the torque wrench.
+James Krivitsky with extensions, if you can do without them, it would be better. If an extension is needed, the shorter the better. A shorter extension will give you more accurate torque than a longer one. And if you can't get to a fastener with a shallow socket but you can with a deep socket, then use the deep socket. A deep socket will give you more accurate torque reading than a short socket with an extension.
Frank Gonzalez I just bought myself a nice torque wrench the other week, I haven't used it yet as knew they needed calibrating. I'm just wondering how though?
@BobTheSnail42 Hard to say, some parts are better than others. In fact many rotor manufacturers recommend machining them before installing them on the vehicle just to ensure against that type of thing. However to ensure the best possible result it's always a good idea to torque the wheels to their proper torque.
I can see how a leaking exhaust manifold or gasket can cause the engine to run poorly because the O2 sensor will read lean but I haven't seen one cause a no start condition. The exhaust system also creates a certain amount of back pressure that helps draw in the fuel mixture during valve overlap but that's as close as I can come to an explanation to what you described.
As some others have commented, I think that not demonstrating the wrench actually turning the nuts is a bit of an oversight. An apprentice I used to work with would bang on the lugs with his shiny, new IR impact wrench applying god knows how much torque...and then clicks the lugs as if a torque wrench is a magic wand. The shop bought a Jeep a new front end, alloy rim and tire because of this...nevermind brake vibration.
Metering or proportioning valves are on all cars in one form or another. Traditionally the front brakes are used for about 75% to 80% of the work, a proportioning valve is used to dictate this proportion.
Man i watch way too many guys use the torque stick and just keep hammering it on. Key is to stop right when it hits or you'll end up over torquing it anyways. That's always been my experience anyways.
Does nobody seriously notice that he said snug, not tight, then use the torque wrench to get the right setting... All these comments about if its to tight it will still click ate useless. He said snug, not hammer the crap out of it with an impact first...
The way you did this is the way i have seen tire shops do it. You really did not torque the wheels to spec but made sure they were at least 80 ft/lb. The lug did not move at all when you torqued it, indicating that it was already above 80. If you had 200 ft/lbs of torque already on there, the wrench would click at 80. You should get some movement of the lug before it clicks indicating the proper torque.
Well if that was his intention to simply demonstrate 'how to' then he should have pointed that out to the viewers and not left it to interpretation of the viewer.
@grasscutter88 Yes, it is recommended to tighten in a star pattern. Removal is not important however you can remove them in any order you like. Thanks for the comment.
I would say that if the car vibrates while stopping it is most likely warped rotors. On acceleration however it would most likely be an engine performance problem. It's hard to say exactly what it could be but you could start by inspecting your ignition parts.
Once a tyre shop guy torqued my lug nuts up so hard with an impact wrench that I broke a socket wrench trying to undo them. I didn't know this could cause brake vibrations though, that's probably why mine honk since I got new tyres last week...
I noticed it clicked without moving - Wouldn't that mean the lugs are already on there above 80 ft/lbs? Shouldn't they move a bit before the click? I put my lugs on with an air gun, but I just "blip" the trigger and let the "momentum" snug it up. Then I use the torque wrench to tighten it. If the bolt doesn't move before the click, I use a breaker bar to loosen it up a bit and then re-torque. Also, with alloys, its important to check the torque after driving a bit - They can loosen up over time.
When I was taught how to use a torque wrench, they said to always make one continuous motion, if you stop it takes more torque to get it started again. Chances are if you have to torque over that bolt, you need to loosen it out and redo it, unless you are doing torqing in steps
Sudz that's true and Eric should know this. But i bet 70-80% of mechanics dont know it. You are doing it perfect with the "loosen an re-torque if it wasn't moving" that's how it should be done.
I was wondering about this too. his torque wrench didn't quite move at all and it clicked everytime. So what your saying is you need to take the breaker bar and loosen it and then tighten it back with torque wrench? If so, whats really the point of the air gun to tighten it in the first place? I like to learn this myself now and start changing tires myself instead of dragging these tires out of my garage to the mechanic to change. Do you also know the torque needed on a volkswagen passat 2010 16 inch tires? two year comment, but hope someone responds.
I actually had a wheel fall off on me once and pass me on the road. No one was hurt and no damage was done. I guess the car gods were smiling on me that day. Thanks for watching Les.
I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what you are trying to say here but what I gather is that you have a broken timing belt. If your wondering what might happen if you left the belt exposed something could get dropped down behind the timing cover and rip the belt to shreds, I've seen this before.
It has been our experience that drawing the lugs down in a single pass tends to cause distortion of the hub/rotor and can also result in improper rotor seating leading to run-out (wobble) on vehicles where rotor is separate from the hub. We had one extreme case where the only reliable procedure not to induce warpage was to torque in pattern and in steps, warm up the brakes and then loosen the lugs and repeat the process. Apparently the aluminum wheels on that vehicle were deforming when hot.
@alienboy366 You have already run the lug nuts flush but not tight when the wheel is on the ground, you can do it while it's in the air but it's very difficult because the wheel will want to rotate as you torque. I prefer doing it on the ground when working with hand tools because it allows me to just use the wrench rather than fight the wheel rotation when it's up in the air, I've never suffered any ill effects from doing it that way.
It's just what Eric did at the end of the video when he tightened the lug nuts on the wheel to the proper torque. Torque is the rotational analog of force, or twisting force, just as Eric said in the video. If lug nuts aren't tightened to the proper torque, bad things can happen. They may loosen if they weren't tightened enough. If they were over tightened they may warp the brake rotor, again as Eric mentioned. I imagine they would also be more likely to seize and be a pain to remove later.
@Ibringthetruth1 I don't know about the anti-seize as it will effect the torque and make a mess, I don't recommend using lubricants on wheel studs, hubs yes but not the wheel studs.
Great videos. Just quick detail: can't accurately check torque of nuts already tightened with a torque wrench. The nut or lug already at static coefficient. The torque is correct only when the nut or lug is turning and exhibiting dynamic coefficient of friction when the torque value is reached or clicked using click type wrench. Generally speaking, the hardware could be under-torqued yet shows correct. The static coefficient could be 20% or more than dynamic.
I will let you know when one comes through and I get a video from it. I don't usually cover long operations like that on RUclips, I plan to sell those as DVD's or downloads in the near future. Just work carefully and keep track of all your parts and you should be fine. Good luck
I am a master tech and mechanical engineer and i learned, that you have to tighten the nuts/bolts with the torque wrench till it clicks. In your case, it just clicked and you didnt tighten them, they were tight before and maybe to tight. So just screw the fasteners in hand tight and then tighten them with the torque wrench slowly till it clicks. The threads and the seat have to be clean but you can use a little RTV on the seat, not the threads!
From what I've seen, if you find out the brake pedal is vibrating because the wheel lugs don't have all the same torque, no need to replace the brake disc even when driving like this for a while. Just torque back again the lugs in 3-4 steps, and the disc will go back to it's shape and the vibrations will be gone.
I agree with you to a point. I never use a torque wrench on steel rims but soft metal like aluminum and high dollar rims for sure I use a torque wrench.
TPMS didn't exist when I was inspecting cars in PA. I can't see how you could fail a car for lack of TPMS since in essence it is a luxury system but I'm sure the customer would be pissed with that light on the dash on all the time.
Before I watch it, I already know hes gonna say something like oh you better torque them wheels right, I had a friend of a friend which had his wheels fall of at 600 mph.
Another important thing to mention is on mag and aluminium wheels you may need to re-tighten the lug nuts after about 30 miles to ensure they remain seated. Its not absolutly nesscary but I have seen vechicles that have lost wheels because they didnt come back to get there wheels retorqued. That have even been instances that I removed a lug nut with nothing but my hand(while removing the annonying lug nut covers chevy puts on there trucks).
I work at a tire shop and the guys I work with ALWAYS over torque because they’re in a hurry to get the job over with…it really bothers me but I’m not sure how to bring it up. Maybe next you can do a video on that? Haha
Have you ever started out on a 10 speed bike in 10th gear? If the drive-train is not functioning properly, that includes the transmission, then efficiency is compromised thus effecting emissions.
Lug nuts are steel rims are Al. Better to use anti seze on the steel thread and grease the contact area on the lug nut to Al wheel. Corrosion may not be a big deal but dissimilar metals can cause problems only way to slow it down is grease and that is not a fix.
Not really, an alignment is a precision measurement it's better if you use a tape measure instead of your eye if your trying to get it close. The truth is that they are not really hard to do with the proper equipment. That is if the adjusters move like they should, if not, it's time to break out the torch.
All of that will work but I try cranking the engine with the gas pedal fully depressed first. This puts the car in "clear flood" mode and sometimes works.
Yeah I love it when I get new tires and they always use the impact gun and all the nuts are on way too tight. Next thing you know I am fixing the issue with my own torque wrench. Only need 100 ft lbs. on mine not 400
I was curious about how you determine if you have the nuts tight enough when using an impact wrench. I came across this info. "Not meant for tightening purposes: Impact wrench helps speed up the process of loosening or removing the nuts/ bolts, whereas a torque wrench is meant for tightening the fixings. Most people are not aware of this fact." Source: 8 Common Mistakes When Using An Impact Wrench
Eric from watching you torque the lugs I saw no movement at all which leads me to believe they were all over torqued already. Just saying, 30 year aviation mechanic, everything gets torqued and witnessed by an inspector, no inspector would have ever signed off on that deal. Thanks for pointing out the necessity of torqueing crucial components.
WOW; thanks. I just did a rotor replacement and I'm curious why breaking after this work is not recently surging.. You may have solved the riddle. The rotor replacement on my 99 Acura was really painful as I had a hard time removing the holding screws; a requirement many of you experts understand but I didn't.
Hi there, I wanted to ask you what the potential damage that can occur if the tech only tightens 1 lug but and just hand tightens the others to put the lug nuts on. Then lowers the vehicle back onto the ground and gives it back to the customer. They then drive about 10 miles at 50 kph, and once notice at 55 kph that they can hear their wheel moving back and forth. You then drive another 2 miles in that condition in order to pull into a parking lot to see what’s going on and notice that the tech did this to your vehicle. I grab my torch wrench and tighten the nuts on the spot. Unfortunately, I didn’t have a jack with me to remove the rim first before torquing the nuts. I am bring the vehicle back to the shop to inspect for damage as they are covered by insurance. I’d like to know what I should be on the lookout for and would appreciate any advice.
If you don't know what you are doing, you can still over tighten or under torque with torque sticks. It is depends on how long you hold the trigger and power setting of a pneumatic or electric guns.
This is such a good information for beginners to know and how to use torque correctly. However, I wonder what are the worse consequences when over or under torque if you are on the freeway at 70 mp.
I've lost two wheels because of incorrectly torqued wheels by tire shops. First time, they over did it and cracked the studs on the driver side rear causing 3 to snap off while I was going 65 down the highway. Truck shook for a second and then the wheel passed me in the left lane! Second time, the driver side front wheel was under tightened and when I turned sharp right into a parking lot, the wheel kept going straight. Both times caused very expensive damage to other parts.
So you roll the lugs until snug, lower the car to the ground, then torque them to spec in a star pattern? Or are you supposed to torque them while the wheel is still in the air?
Another reason this can be good, is the garages (using air impact wrenchs), torque the studs so tight, that its nearly impossible to get them off with hand tools when you get a flat. I found this out not long ago after a flat. I eventually got the tire off, but on one bolt had to put my entire body weight (200+) on a big star wrench and a lot of struggling to get it. I don't know what torque it was at, but I do know it was way too high.
Well done Eric ! i cant stand when mechanics use impact guns just because its easier and faster . Whenever i try and take the tire off myself it is virtually impossible to get the lugs off
Hey Eric, any chance of a video on how to advance the timing on a car? I've heard on 1992 & 1993 Lexus ES300's (with 3VZ-FE engine) that advancing the timing from 10 degrees to 17 degrees gives quite a good result, but I don't have a clue how to do it..
Your just too Awesome.. Long time ago I use to buzz 'em with the air wrench. I went on a test drive and something didn't feel right. I got back to the shop and had one wheel loose. I guess the shop air compressor blew a fuse and I didn't know the air pressure was low. Lesson learned and I'll always use a torque wrench. Les
I've worked on several classic cars with bias ply tires. I can say that driving on them is scary to say the least, they tend to wonder all over the road.
I agree, my Nissan dealer put my wheels back on after a service a couple of years ago with an impact gun. I had to buy an electric rattle gun to get them off again! Needless to say I haven't been back...
Good video Eric.
My experience with tire shops are they never ever use torque wrenches. Every time after a tire shop visit, I had to re-torque my wheel nuts. One time, I was madder than hell when I tried to loosen a wheel bolt that just won't let go because of the guy over torquing it with their air guns. Finally I had to resort to a breaker bar, and you guessed it, the bolt snapped and to make it worse this is a BMW that does not use wheel nuts, but rather wheel bolts and the snapped thread embedded in the rotor hub. To make a long story short, I spend the next 6 hours drilling out the broken bolt. From now on, I never drive my car to the tire shop, but rather put my car on jack stands and just take the tires/wheels to the shop to replace tires. Then with the new tires mounted on wheel, I took them back to my own garage to mount and re-torque the wheels myself.
A lot of shops I've had work done at give a tag to get bolts re torqued at the shop for free after 60 miles.
One of my relatives owns a local tire shop, and they torque EVERYTHING. From cars to trailers to big boy truck wheels, everything gets snugged to below spec and torqued up to spec. Top of the line wrenches, regularly calibrated, and they even have the massive 600lb/ft 3/4" drive for big trailers. He runs a tight ship.
I had tire barn cross thread a lug on me. Had to break it to get it off. I been working on my own cars since i was 18. My wife took her car to wal mart to get tires. I couldnt get the lug loose to rotate the tires. I always take my rims to the tire shop too...saves me 5 a tire at that.
Yep. Went to a tire place and they broke 3 wheel studs. Was a total nightmare. Never going back
This. My local shop has cross threaded bolts and warped brand new rotors on my vehicles on multiple occasions. Now whenever I need a patch job or plug or something like that I’ve gotta take a tire off and take it to then instead of just leaving my car there for a day so I can make sure it’s torqued properly.
the torque wrench needs to turn the nut before it clicks; otherwise it may already be over-torqued. I would also mention that you have to stop turning when you hear the click.
For proper re torquing the vehicle should be lifted off the ground to eliminate loading the wheel bolts and than the wheel bolts or nuts should be loosened and torqued. This procedure insures correct centring of hub centric or lug centric or both. For example my vehicle uses lug centric wheel bolts and my wheels are hub centric, the best of both worlds.
@@billwilson6096 How do you stop the wheel from moving while off the ground so you can tighten the lug nuts?
@@dsertwq….. while your wheels are elevated off the floor install your lug nuts as snug as possible and than lower the vehicle to the floor and go ahead and torque to spec.
Eric, just posted your site for family and friends, especially for our granddaughter, far away, serving in the Marine Corps. Keep up the great work. Steve
God bless our Marines!! Semper Fi little lady 👍🇺🇲
You are absolutely correct and a keen observer, the lugs on this car were not loose when I shot the video. What I was demonstrating was the technique and the process. The process is to run the lugs down snug, not tight, and then use the torque wrench to finish them off to the proper torque, the reason this is done on the ground is to prevent the wheel from spinning too much while you are torquing the wheel. The final torque for this car would be 80 lbft, not 80 inch/lbs BTW.
what if you hold the wheel from spinning when it is raised above the ground?
Can do video on brake pads
@EFSOutdoors When working at the dealer I used what is called a 'torque stick' which put it in the ballpark but wasn't exact. When I worked on performance cars I treated them a bit different by torquing them by hand. It's good to get them as consistent as possible and as close to the spec as possible if you don't use a torque wrench.
It's on the back of the intake manifold. The most common problem that causes idle fluctuations is low coolant however.
Perfect. Wish more shops did this. Those torque wrenches have been what has kept me out of many shops. Good to know about the torque sticks. Wish more shops used those too. Thanks Eric.
In my experience (learned from personal catastrophes), if your wheels have ever been torqued at a shop - as in overtorqued with an impact wrench - the manufacturer's spec no longer applies, as I've had many a wheel come loose due to torquing at 80-90 ft/lbs. The only time you can use the spec is if the car is brand new, or if you've just replaced the lug bolts. I imagine what happens is that the overtorquing causes the lug bolts to stretch so that 80 ft/lbs or whatever no longer gives the required amount of force to keep the nuts from loosening. For this reason I always torque to at least 110, most of the time 120 just to be safe. It's no joke I have had many wheels come loose from torquing to spec.
The tire shop torqued my lug nuts with 150 ft/ibs (Spec. is 87, the most). How much now should I torque them? thanks. One another thought I have is: the useful force is the last tightness, overtightened nuts can go "further" to be tight, not go "tighter" to be tight...which means the spec still applies...any thoughts?
@AGreedyTree Depends on how you use them I suppose but the rule is that quality tools are always a good investment, cheep tools often cost money in the long run.
Carbon buildup on the valves and intake. Diesel trucks idle for extended periods because they need to be hot to operate efficiently, these engines are designed to idle for long periods where as gas engines are not.
@xex2kok Indeed it is and a difference that could manifest as a brake pulsation. Thanks for the comment.
From what I've heard using lubricants of any kind on studs or wheel bolts is a no no. I've had the same problem you described on some cars and believe the problem is a result of corrosion buildup. The only way I know of dealing with this properly is to run a thread chaser over the threads and replace the lug nuts. It is rarely done however and studs break from this from time to time as a result. I suppose it is a judgment call.
To be fair, he clearly said to put the bolts or nuts on snug first, not tight. Snug here means way less than rated. In the video the lugs were already on, and the torque wrench pull was just a visual and audible demonstration of how the torque wrench works.
Torque sticks work, because of how an impact wrench works. An impact wrench imparts VERY small and short "knocks" on a rigid object. As the actual travel of a single impact is VERY short (otherwise wrenching a stuck bolt would break yout wrist as the wrench twisted out of your hand) - an impact wrench is incapable of applying mentionable torque force on a springy/flexing object (it just flexes that very short bit and springs right back). Torque sticks are made from spring steel, and designed to flex at a fixed torque rating - hence the working mechanism of the impact wrench cannot make it rotate any further. It just flexes and springs back.
To put it on a point; A powerful impact gun might be able to undo a rusted-down 2-inch nut - but the same gun is likely not be able to screw that same nut a single revolution onto a coilspring.
2 thingz that me that let'z me & anyone else who really know automotive & especially those that don't that ur intstruction on torqueing lugnut is on point, r the factz that (1) u showed the use of (TORQUE STICKZ), & (2) just as important as The (TORQUE STICKZ) waz imploying the (STAR PATTERN) when torqueing the nutz. Very nicely done video E. Rock on captain.
Always a great idea to check you lug nut torque. I know when I go in to get my tires rotated and check my torque afterwards they all range from 40 to 80 ft/lbs which is a huge difference.
Great video as alway. U are first person I ever subscribed to. Keep doing what u are doing and u do need your own TV show. Good voice, speech and good explanations. Highest rating.
You are the best Mechanical Professor I have seen, "Stay Dirty" Great!!!
Thanks and Thanks!!
Hey Eric, just a quick remainder to viewers. Never use Torque Wrench as a breaker bar to remove lug nuts, even thou it has the reverse setting. This can eventualy bugger up your torque wrench.
Hats off to you for a great choice of impact. I had mine Ingersoll now for 20 years. This bad boy never let me down yet.
Also someone mentioned about wheel nuts/bolts loosening up after driving. They don't loosen up after driving. If anything, they get tighter due to heat from the rotors.
Thank you!
The way you demonstrated it you showed that the torque was at least 80 lbs. The nuts could have been on at 200ft lbs and it will click at 80. I always run it down by hand. If you don't move the nut at all with the torque wrench you could be over tight. And NEVER use a torque wrench to loosen fasteners.
I was just about to make that exact comment. Another note on torquing any fastener is over torquing will actually lower total clamping force exerted. It's almost like a rubber band when it is torqued correctly the fastener will stretch a very small amount 1/1,000th or even 1/10,000th of a inch. This will apply a stored energy which will hold the components together. What happens if too much torque is applied is like a rubber band tiny microscopic fractures like tears will occur this will lower the amount of energy stored lowering clamping force.
I work for Firestone/Bridgestone the USA's largest automotive service provider. Here back about 14yrs ago my company conducted a test on mechanical fasteners particularly wheel studs as we were having a large amount of insurance claims over wheels falling off customers cars. This alarmed us as we had just put into action a new policy of "double torquing" in which a second employee would double check that all the lug nuts were tightened to specification. Even though we had put this policy into practice across all 5,000 stores nation wide we still had an unusual amount of claims. Upon further review and testing we discovered that "Over torquing" not under torquing of the fasteners was the cause of almost all of our claims. Now all employees are required to use a nut-runner pre-torque all lug nuts, then double torque, if the lug nut does not rotate at least 1/4 turn before reaching specification. They must remove the wheel and inspect all components.
hobbles wolf this is fantastic and should be done at all shops. your very last sentence is very important. normally if they even care to recheck, they would just loosen it up a little and retorque, without caring to investigate the red flag. your explanation is great and many many many people have no idea!!!and we're talking about "professionals"!!!! the bolt stretch you speak of can be thaught of like a mercury thermostat. 0 degress is the average of the torque spec. 30 degrees and you are undertorqued. negative 30 degrees and you are overtorqued and the bolt has yielded... and there is maybe the same clamping force as the 30 degree mark. negative 40 degrees and the bolt is in risk of shearing, or the threads pull out. most and i mean most people think, "hey, the more force i put on this, the tighter it will get!" when in actuality thats only true up to a point.
I don't know for sure but I think you're right.
Eric, Big Fan of yours. I am an Airplane mechanic. I could not help to notice that your TORQUE WRENCH was beyond its lowest setting. This might not be as important to you. But in the Airplane world, TORQUE WRENCH care is extremely important. 50 ft/lbs was your lowest setting. Your line should align with the that. Going lower than that, can and will throw you torque wrench out of calibration. Not picking at you. Staying dirty with ALL mechs. GOD Bless and Support your troops.
I had no idea. I'm about to set my torque wrench to 50, the lowest setting no xD.
Yes I have and it is quite common for those gaskets to fail. The next time I get one I plan to do a video.
It's hard to say in that situation what the cause was but yes, gears and chains do wear out and cause engines to jump time. Some stock gears have a plastic coating that wears out over time. They use this coating to keep them quiet. In your case it could also be a problem with the distributor.
Ahh, i am glad to see that you have encountered this gasket failure Eric. Me and my dad are replacing mine on my 1998 Buick park avenue and so far we have been doing a good job on it. I am also glad to hear that when you get one in that you will make a video on how to replace it.
@sav7152 Yes, I would go with the factory spec. On another note I've found that some aftermarket wheels work loose after a while so it's a good idea to recheck the torque about every oil change.
Because of the "differential action" the wheel with the LEAST traction gets power. The differential is designed to allow the rear wheels to travel at different speeds while going around turns, if not one wheel would hop while turning. A posi traction still slips in turns but power is always delivered to both rear wheels even if one looses traction.
When you are done using the torque wrench store it set to 0 or its lowest setting. Storing it other than 0 or its lowest reading will ruin the calibration of the torque wrench.
+Frank Gonzalez Hi Frank, your point on "unloading the wrench " makes sense for storing. What about using extensions with torque wrenches ? JK.
+James Krivitsky with extensions, if you can do without them, it would be better. If an extension is needed, the shorter the better. A shorter extension will give you more accurate torque than a longer one. And if you can't get to a fastener with a shallow socket but you can with a deep socket, then use the deep socket. A deep socket will give you more accurate torque reading than a short socket with an extension.
+Frank Gonzalez , so tell me Frank, do you also have presentations on RUclips, and if so what is the name ? Thanks Jim
James Krivitsky I don't have any presentations or channel. Just years of wrenching experience.
Frank Gonzalez
I just bought myself a nice torque wrench the other week, I haven't used it yet as knew they needed calibrating. I'm just wondering how though?
@BobTheSnail42 Hard to say, some parts are better than others. In fact many rotor manufacturers recommend machining them before installing them on the vehicle just to ensure against that type of thing. However to ensure the best possible result it's always a good idea to torque the wheels to their proper torque.
GLAD iwatched this!!! im about to do all 4 rotors/pads and 2 calipers in the rear. and had no idea that torquing the wheels was so important.
I can see how a leaking exhaust manifold or gasket can cause the engine to run poorly because the O2 sensor will read lean but I haven't seen one cause a no start condition. The exhaust system also creates a certain amount of back pressure that helps draw in the fuel mixture during valve overlap but that's as close as I can come to an explanation to what you described.
Wheel torque is real Tawk
As some others have commented, I think that not demonstrating the wrench actually turning the nuts is a bit of an oversight.
An apprentice I used to work with would bang on the lugs with his shiny, new IR impact wrench applying god knows how much torque...and then clicks the lugs as if a torque wrench is a magic wand.
The shop bought a Jeep a new front end, alloy rim and tire because of this...nevermind brake vibration.
I've done it more than once and have not suffered a failure as a result.
Metering or proportioning valves are on all cars in one form or another. Traditionally the front brakes are used for about 75% to 80% of the work, a proportioning valve is used to dictate this proportion.
Man i watch way too many guys use the torque stick and just keep hammering it on. Key is to stop right when it hits or you'll end up over torquing it anyways. That's always been my experience anyways.
Does nobody seriously notice that he said snug, not tight, then use the torque wrench to get the right setting... All these comments about if its to tight it will still click ate useless. He said snug, not hammer the crap out of it with an impact first...
so true, idiots
The way you did this is the way i have seen tire shops do it. You really did not torque the wheels to spec but made sure they were at least 80 ft/lb. The lug did not move at all when you torqued it, indicating that it was already above 80. If you had 200 ft/lbs of torque already on there, the wrench would click at 80. You should get some movement of the lug before it clicks indicating the proper torque.
K Kampy i feel like he already torqued everything and that was just a demonstration of how to do it…
Well if that was his intention to simply demonstrate 'how to' then he should have pointed that out to the viewers and not left it to interpretation of the viewer.
fucking rights eric , you need your own tv show
usernamelane1986 One of the other Clooneys might be able to help with that.
@grasscutter88 Yes, it is recommended to tighten in a star pattern. Removal is not important however you can remove them in any order you like. Thanks for the comment.
I would say that if the car vibrates while stopping it is most likely warped rotors. On acceleration however it would most likely be an engine performance problem. It's hard to say exactly what it could be but you could start by inspecting your ignition parts.
Once a tyre shop guy torqued my lug nuts up so hard with an impact wrench that I broke a socket wrench trying to undo them. I didn't know this could cause brake vibrations though, that's probably why mine honk since I got new tyres last week...
I noticed it clicked without moving - Wouldn't that mean the lugs are already on there above 80 ft/lbs? Shouldn't they move a bit before the click?
I put my lugs on with an air gun, but I just "blip" the trigger and let the "momentum" snug it up. Then I use the torque wrench to tighten it. If the bolt doesn't move before the click, I use a breaker bar to loosen it up a bit and then re-torque.
Also, with alloys, its important to check the torque after driving a bit - They can loosen up over time.
When I was taught how to use a torque wrench, they said to always make one continuous motion, if you stop it takes more torque to get it started again. Chances are if you have to torque over that bolt, you need to loosen it out and redo it, unless you are doing torqing in steps
Sudz that's true and Eric should know this. But i bet 70-80% of mechanics dont know it. You are doing it perfect with the "loosen an re-torque if it wasn't moving" that's how it should be done.
I was wondering about this too. his torque wrench didn't quite move at all and it clicked everytime.
So what your saying is you need to take the breaker bar and loosen it and then tighten it back with torque wrench? If so, whats really the point of the air gun to tighten it in the first place? I like to learn this myself now and start changing tires myself instead of dragging these tires out of my garage to the mechanic to change.
Do you also know the torque needed on a volkswagen passat 2010 16 inch tires? two year comment, but hope someone responds.
Yes Ford has owned Mazda for some years now as well as Jaguar and Land Rover up until recently.
I actually had a wheel fall off on me once and pass me on the road. No one was hurt and no damage was done. I guess the car gods were smiling on me that day. Thanks for watching Les.
They are actually extensions used on mostly older cars with hub caps.
I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what you are trying to say here but what I gather is that you have a broken timing belt. If your wondering what might happen if you left the belt exposed something could get dropped down behind the timing cover and rip the belt to shreds, I've seen this before.
Good point.
It has been our experience that drawing the lugs down in a single pass tends to cause distortion of the hub/rotor and can also result in improper rotor seating leading to run-out (wobble) on vehicles where rotor is separate from the hub. We had one extreme case where the only reliable procedure not to induce warpage was to torque in pattern and in steps, warm up the brakes and then loosen the lugs and repeat the process. Apparently the aluminum wheels on that vehicle were deforming when hot.
@mixwell1983 You know they say those needle wrenches are very accurate and some manuals prefer that you use them.
@TheMctwist174 Yes in fact it is just a socket.
@alienboy366 You have already run the lug nuts flush but not tight when the wheel is on the ground, you can do it while it's in the air but it's very difficult because the wheel will want to rotate as you torque. I prefer doing it on the ground when working with hand tools because it allows me to just use the wrench rather than fight the wheel rotation when it's up in the air, I've never suffered any ill effects from doing it that way.
Good Info! I torque mine when the tire is on the ground but all the way. Just enough for no spin.
It's just what Eric did at the end of the video when he tightened the lug nuts on the wheel to the proper torque. Torque is the rotational analog of force, or twisting force, just as Eric said in the video. If lug nuts aren't tightened to the proper torque, bad things can happen. They may loosen if they weren't tightened enough. If they were over tightened they may warp the brake rotor, again as Eric mentioned. I imagine they would also be more likely to seize and be a pain to remove later.
@Ibringthetruth1 I don't know about the anti-seize as it will effect the torque and make a mess, I don't recommend using lubricants on wheel studs, hubs yes but not the wheel studs.
Great videos. Just quick detail: can't accurately check torque of nuts already tightened with a torque wrench. The nut or lug already at static coefficient. The torque is correct only when the nut or lug is turning and exhibiting dynamic coefficient of friction when the torque value is reached or clicked using click type wrench. Generally speaking, the hardware could be under-torqued yet shows correct. The static coefficient could be 20% or more than dynamic.
Yes.
Excellent video. You're a good teacher. Thank you.
I will let you know when one comes through and I get a video from it. I don't usually cover long operations like that on RUclips, I plan to sell those as DVD's or downloads in the near future. Just work carefully and keep track of all your parts and you should be fine.
Good luck
The only thing I can think of is that it might be cooler, cooler air is denser and is better for combustion as a result.
I am a master tech and mechanical engineer and i learned, that you have to tighten the nuts/bolts with the torque wrench till it clicks. In your case, it just clicked and you didnt tighten them, they were tight before and maybe to tight. So just screw the fasteners in hand tight and then tighten them with the torque wrench slowly till it clicks. The threads and the seat have to be clean but you can use a little RTV on the seat, not the threads!
Nice production value and it looks like great content, thanks for the tip.
Informative vid, E. I always check the torque with a calibrated torque wrench after using torque sticks.
From what I've seen, if you find out the brake pedal is vibrating because the wheel lugs don't have all the same torque, no need to replace the brake disc even when driving like this for a while. Just torque back again the lugs in 3-4 steps, and the disc will go back to it's shape and the vibrations will be gone.
@emadseksek It's usually found in the service manual.
I agree with you to a point. I never use a torque wrench on steel rims but soft metal like aluminum and high dollar rims for sure I use a torque wrench.
TPMS didn't exist when I was inspecting cars in PA. I can't see how you could fail a car for lack of TPMS since in essence it is a luxury system but I'm sure the customer would be pissed with that light on the dash on all the time.
@Silent7mijo Or I should say I mentioned that in the How to torque cylinder head bolt video. Thanks for the comment and the suggestion.
Before I watch it, I already know hes gonna say something like oh you better torque them wheels right, I had a friend of a friend which had his wheels fall of at 600 mph.
My entire car would fall at 600 mph too
Another important thing to mention is on mag and aluminium wheels you may need to re-tighten the lug nuts after about 30 miles to ensure they remain seated. Its not absolutly nesscary but I have seen vechicles that have lost wheels because they didnt come back to get there wheels retorqued. That have even been instances that I removed a lug nut with nothing but my hand(while removing the annonying lug nut covers chevy puts on there trucks).
I work at a tire shop and the guys I work with ALWAYS over torque because they’re in a hurry to get the job over with…it really bothers me but I’m not sure how to bring it up. Maybe next you can do a video on that? Haha
I like the US flag in the background. I've been watching and learning from your amazing videos. I just want to say: THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
Have you ever started out on a 10 speed bike in 10th gear? If the drive-train is not functioning properly, that includes the transmission, then efficiency is compromised thus effecting emissions.
Lug nuts are steel rims are Al. Better to use anti seze on the steel thread and grease the contact area on the lug nut to Al wheel. Corrosion may not be a big deal but dissimilar metals can cause problems only way to slow it down is grease and that is not a fix.
Not really, an alignment is a precision measurement it's better if you use a tape measure instead of your eye if your trying to get it close. The truth is that they are not really hard to do with the proper equipment. That is if the adjusters move like they should, if not, it's time to break out the torch.
All of that will work but I try cranking the engine with the gas pedal fully depressed first. This puts the car in "clear flood" mode and sometimes works.
Yeah I love it when I get new tires and they always use the impact gun and all the nuts are on way too tight.
Next thing you know I am fixing the issue with my own torque wrench. Only need 100 ft lbs. on mine not 400
@tookimonster333 Service manual is the only place that I know of. 80lbft is a good number I think.
I was curious about how you determine if you have the nuts tight enough when using an impact wrench. I came across this info.
"Not meant for tightening purposes:
Impact wrench helps speed up the process of loosening or removing the nuts/ bolts, whereas a torque wrench is meant for tightening the fixings. Most people are not aware of this fact."
Source:
8 Common Mistakes When Using An Impact Wrench
I've seen this attempted without success. Sometimes tires are very difficult to seat and you try whatever you can to make it work.
Eric from watching you torque the lugs I saw no movement at all which leads me to believe they were all over torqued already. Just saying, 30 year aviation mechanic, everything gets torqued and witnessed by an inspector, no inspector would have ever signed off on that deal. Thanks for pointing out the necessity of torqueing crucial components.
Thank you Eric. You speak very well.
He's not doing it the proper way. Read Sam Johnsons comment.
WOW; thanks. I just did a rotor replacement and I'm curious why breaking after this work is not recently surging.. You may have solved the riddle. The rotor replacement on my 99 Acura was really painful as I had a hard time removing the holding screws; a requirement many of you experts understand but I didn't.
Hi there, I wanted to ask you what the potential damage that can occur if the tech only tightens 1 lug but and just hand tightens the others to put the lug nuts on. Then lowers the vehicle back onto the ground and gives it back to the customer. They then drive about 10 miles at 50 kph, and once notice at 55 kph that they can hear their wheel moving back and forth. You then drive another 2 miles in that condition in order to pull into a parking lot to see what’s going on and notice that the tech did this to your vehicle. I grab my torch wrench and tighten the nuts on the spot. Unfortunately, I didn’t have a jack with me to remove the rim first before torquing the nuts.
I am bring the vehicle back to the shop to inspect for damage as they are covered by insurance. I’d like to know what I should be on the lookout for and would appreciate any advice.
If you don't know what you are doing, you can still over tighten or under torque with torque sticks. It is depends on how long you hold the trigger and power setting of a pneumatic or electric guns.
This is such a good information for beginners to know and how to use torque correctly. However, I wonder what are the worse consequences when over or under torque if you are on the freeway at 70 mp.
I've lost two wheels because of incorrectly torqued wheels by tire shops. First time, they over did it and cracked the studs on the driver side rear causing 3 to snap off while I was going 65 down the highway. Truck shook for a second and then the wheel passed me in the left lane! Second time, the driver side front wheel was under tightened and when I turned sharp right into a parking lot, the wheel kept going straight. Both times caused very expensive damage to other parts.
If it makes life easier to remove something I'm all for it really. Just make sure you do evacuate the system properly before opening up the AC system.
So you roll the lugs until snug, lower the car to the ground, then torque them to spec in a star pattern? Or are you supposed to torque them while the wheel is still in the air?
The wheel will turn if not on the ground you moron!
LoudProudNPunk1
You are right. Sorry
I like to put the car down just far enough to hold the wheel while I torque the lug nuts, then I put the vehicle all the way down.
Eric, you mention you used torque sticks for years. Do you still use them? What are your opinions on them overall? Can you trust them?
Torque is very important, like your videos
Perhaps in a later video I will go into it further with some pretty animations or something. Understanding is my goal.
Another reason this can be good, is the garages (using air impact wrenchs), torque the studs so tight, that its nearly impossible to get them off with hand tools when you get a flat.
I found this out not long ago after a flat. I eventually got the tire off, but on one bolt had to put my entire body weight (200+) on a big star wrench and a lot of struggling to get it. I don't know what torque it was at, but I do know it was way too high.
Yes but I've never done it. I tried it with a wheel bearing once though and it did seem to go smoother.
Well done Eric ! i cant stand when mechanics use impact guns just because its easier and faster . Whenever i try and take the tire off myself it is virtually impossible to get the lugs off
Hey Eric, any chance of a video on how to advance the timing on a car? I've heard on 1992 & 1993 Lexus ES300's (with 3VZ-FE engine) that advancing the timing from 10 degrees to 17 degrees gives quite a good result, but I don't have a clue how to do it..
your the man!!! eric thanks 4 the excellent vids u helped me out a million!!!
Your just too Awesome.. Long time ago I use to buzz 'em with the air wrench. I went on a test drive and something didn't feel right. I got back to the shop and had one wheel loose. I guess the shop air compressor blew a fuse and I didn't know the air pressure was low. Lesson learned and I'll always use a torque wrench.
Les
I've worked on several classic cars with bias ply tires. I can say that driving on them is scary to say the least, they tend to wonder all over the road.
I agree, my Nissan dealer put my wheels back on after a service a couple of years ago with an impact gun. I had to buy an electric rattle gun to get them off again! Needless to say I haven't been back...