The Day of the Doctor - Take Two Doctor Who Review
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- Doctor Who celebrates its 50th anniversary with multi-doctor special. Matt Smith, David Tennant, and John Hurt, along with the return of Billie Piper. UNIT, Zygons, Queen Elizabeth and MORE! Can Steven Moffat pull all these elements together? Let's find out.
Original review can be found here: • Day of the Doctor Revi...
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Council of Geeks: "Because they're never actually going to do a series with Tom Baker as the great Curator "
Big Finish: "Hello!"
Those sneaky buggers.
In context to the series Nathaniel can be right cause big finish don't have an impact on the show itself it's just part of the expansive universe of doctor who but never impacts the show universe
Have you listened? Is it any good?
😢
@@kevin10001 well kinda, Night of the Doctor canonised Big Finish, by letting the eigth Doctor remember his "audio only" companions. They could pull it, if they want to. But doing that, the BBC needs someone who is on "storytelling" rather "political correctness"
"Great men are forged in fire. It's the privilege of lesser men to light the flame."
Still gets me feeling all kinds of ways
It’s so weird to realize how relatively quickly Tennant came back, but here we are 7 years later and Matt Smith’s only post-regeneration appearance is one filmed as he was leaving for the very start of the era without him. Yes the man has surely been busy with The Crown and his film work, but still…
That’s a very good point!
If we discount Smith's appearance in Capaldi's first episode as "coming back" then Tennent is the only Doctor from Nu Who who has done it and it took the 50th to make that happen. In that context it's not strange at all.
@@dansharp2860 - yeah, it's strange that Tennant came back. It's not strange that Matt hasn't.
It makes sense when you consider this episode is the 50th anniversary. It's not just any old episode. There's no milestone even close to importance for another multi-Doctor story.
kwanarchive **hums in Twice Upon a Time**
The tenth doctor mentions getting married to good queen bess in the end of time though so Moffat wasn't the one to explain it that way.
Agreed. That plotline with Elizabeth was kind of baked in by Russell.
And Moffat carried it on with Smith's second episode.
He didn't have to pick it up though. It was kind of a tasteless joke when Russell did it. Moffat didn't have to follow through with that idea.
@@Jedi_Spartan "So much for the virgin queen, you bad boy!"
Suffered from Eccleston's absence. It tried to be big stories like The 3 Doctors and later The 5 Doctors, but without Eccleston there is a missing link between the War Doctor and Tennant.
No there isn't. You can clearly see Eccleston's eyes (top half of the face) come through in the regeneration.
I don't think they mean a literal missing link, they seem to be saying that the ep would've been better with Ecclestone
@@TheGerkuman Ecclestone said in an interview that he didn't think the script with 9 was strong enough, and it's clear 9 had regenerated since the time war as Rose was a fresh regeneration, so I'm not sure. I'd like to see the first draft.
@@TheGerkuman Why does everyone say Ecclestone, it's Eccleston.
@@MovieMagic515 Auto correct :)
I just adore this episode. I saw it in the cinema, and this is basically the perfect Doctor Who movie for me.
I saw it in a cinema, too. Perhaps I shouldn't have been surprised how many children were there with their parents. I think, though, I was the only one there who can remember watching the first episode 50 years earlier on my parents' black and white, I think 15 inch, TV. Both times were a wonderful experience.
I’d love to see it in Cinema!
I saw it when it aired on tv and in theaters cause here in America it got aired on tv before it got released to theaters a few days later
I saw it at the cinema too it was amazing
It was at Cinemas and it was!!!
Are you going to cover The Five (ish) Doctors?
Was just about to write the same thing!!
Hope so, so underappreciated.
I think It's hard to find the whole thing anywhere for a rewatch
@@utherteasdale933 It's on Britbox, along with a lot of Classic Doctor Who episodes.
What I wish they had done was make it so when Clara tries to convince them to save Gallifrey Eleven says there isn't a way to do it. That they used the Moment because it was the only option. And then in Ten's mind you hear the echoes of Donna's voice from Fires of Pompeii. "Your own planet, it burned. Just someone, please..." and he completes the line out loud "...not the whole planet, just save someone."
Ten and Eleven go to whatever Gallifrey has that function as bunkers for the civilians as the bombs are falling. They manage to evacuate a few thousand Gallifreyans and escape because the Moment is holding the Time Lock open.
The War Doctor activates the Moment and all the time lords and all the dalek are destroyed. Except for those few thousand, protected because they're flying through the time vortex.
The two Doctors find a planet that's similar to Gallifrey's ecosystem, the same red grass and burning skies. He gives them whatever equipment from the two Tardises can be spared. The Gallifreyans tell him they're grateful that he saved them, but he can't come back. He's both a war hero, and a war criminal. He can't be around as they rebuild.
Back amongst the ruins of Gallifrey with the war now over we see the War Doctor wake up at the foot of the Tardis with Bad Wolf standing over him, leaning against the police box doors. She is furious. As the time lords said, she is weapon of mass destruction whose operating system can stand in judgement of any who use her. And her judgement is that the War Doctor gets to live, but she takes from him the memory that some of his people escaped. She leaves him with only the knowledge that he destroyed his home. Then either that propagates forward to make Ten forget or Eleven tells Ten he doesn't remember this and Ten wipes his own mind to keep the timeline intact.
When we next see Gallifrey it can have been a few thousand or hundred thousand years later, they've rebuilt their society but they are not on good terms with the Doctor.
'The Day of the Doctor' is in my top 5 personal favourite Doctor Who stories, as well as my second favourite Moffat-penned story behind 'Heaven Sent'. Saw it at the cinema in London and it wad an amazing experience. I love how this story is solely all about the Doctor and how he overcomes his torment and guilt over the Time War. Both Matt Smith and David Tennant were excellent, this was the first time Clara really clicked for me as a companion, and John Hurt was absolutely amazing here, giving one of the best performances of his career. He genuinely wanted to be the Doctor and was elated when Steven Moffat told him that he's not just the War Doctor, but an official Doctor. As sad as it was that Christopher Eccleston didn't come in for the 50th, I think it turned out for the better both in terms of the script and the final product that Steven Moffat then had to invent the War Doctor and thus bring in John Hurt. To this day, I think he and Paul McGann are the two most underrated Doctors.
As for Moffat deciding to bring Gallifrey back two years following this story, he said one time during an interview that the reason why he did this was because: "I don’t think there’s any long plot at all in the Doctor looking for Gallifrey. When we were doing Series 8, I kept saying "well, maybe he could be looking for Gallifrey".... And? How many times can we have the Doctor look for Gallifrey and then not find it before it gets repetitive? I think that's boring. So introducing, as has been done occasionally, a big quest into Doctor Who. Does it work? They had done it in the Key to Time season, but even there, which I think it’s a lovely season of the show, you’re saying there’s the bit of the key, got that, let’s have an adventure now. It just adds on to the outside of it. Also, the other thing is, which is a great mantra for me and Mark Gatiss, to hell with deferred pleasure. If something exciting is coming up, do it now. Don’t wait 20 years to do it, just do it now". Personally, I think that's a fair point since I think having 10-20 years of the Doctor longing and searching for Gallifrey would've have gotten a bit boring.
Up until recently, I was of the opinion that they should never bring Gallifrey back and I was salty that they brought gallifrey back. Because I had started and had only watched a couple episodes of classic who. And I thought that Gallifrey being gone was a great source of drama and emotional scenes. But I’m now thinking classic who was good for years without Gallifrey being gone and As Moffat said there’s only so much before it gets boring...
Cheers for this, just come from watching a funeral (wasn't close family so couldn't be in person) so this should cheer me up
hope it cheered you up. sorry for your loss.
I'm a little bewildered as to why you would say that the Zygon plot doesn't tie in to the War Doctor story. The Moment shows the War Doctor this point in time because the mechanism the Zygons use to travel in time (the paintings) is then used as the solution as to how to save Gallifrey. The Moment doesn't want to straight up tell the War Doctor, The Moment needs the War Doctor to discover the answer for themselves.
Also, the last time Zygons appeared, they were trying to take over the Earth because their planet was destroyed. In Day of the Doctor, we find out that the Zygon's planet was destroyed by the Time War, which explains why they've been trying to take over the Earth at different points in time.
*I don't know how to feel about John Hurt's casting.* On one hand, you've got Paul Mcgann. It was always supposed to be 8 in the Time War, and developing him from lover to warrior would be brilliant. On the other hand...it's John Hurt. Who can complain? Well, me. Because we really do need more Mcgann. I suppose we're just lucky to have both actors in the show.
@anti - Steven wanted Chris, but Russell wanted Paul before that.
@@nightowl8477 to ne fair McGann dors war-weary far worse than someone like Hurt so moot point
Queen Elizabeth was never going to be just one of those adventures we never knew what happened. If the show itself hadn’t done it you just know Big Finish would have. 😄
Yes but I’d like to think Big Finish would have found a better justification than “bitter ex wife.”
The Queen Elizabeth ex-wife subplot was already canon, before the 50th.
The Tenth Doctor says to Ood Sigma, at the start of End of Time Part 1, "I didn't exactly come straight here. Had a bit of fun y'know? Travelled around. Did this and that. Got into trouble, you know me. It was brilliant. ...Got married. That was a mistake. Good Queen Bess, and let me tell you, her nickname is no longer ... anyway, what do you want?"
While your complaint you don't like a 'woman scorned' motive is perfectly valid
, I think that it's not this episode fault.
A valid criticism that's not wrong, just unfairly misplaced, criticising an episode purely because of events in a past/future one.
Kind of the same way you keep criticising Clara now, because of the Doctor's motives behind Hell Bent at the end of her run.
Having re-watched The Day Of The Doctor only yesterday, I find myself thinking it's actually improved rather than degraded. Your criticism was that the long-term effects of the episode weren't so good. My initial reaction upon on seeing it reflected that of many viewers, I think: there seemed to be two parts, the Zygon part and the Time War part. Most folks initially thought the Zygon part fell flat but was redeemed by the Time War part. Upon re-watching it after some time, I think the Zygon part held up better than expected. As such, my enjoyment of the episode only increased. Whether or not Doctor Who went down the tubes after The Day Of The Doctor, the episode itself is still a triumph and one to be enjoyed.
Re the Zygons, I have read that they featured here as a tribute to David Tennant, as they were his favourite monster and he was disappointed he never got to appear onscreen with them.
I remember when I was watching this at my in-laws' house on air-date ( we didn't have cable or a streaming for it then), over Thanksgiving weekend, and I remember the moment I realized that Tom Baker had been brought back. The little bit of the back of his ear and the tufts of white curls, followed by that rich voice. I started crying, because that was the most thoughtful, surprising cameo for the 50th, and he played the Caretaker beautifully. The current elder-statseman of Doctor Who, playing what could be a future Doctor (that "old favorites" line brought more tears) was perfect. I love the episode as a whole, and while I love all the Doctors, Tom's is not one of my top 3, but it was absolutely the best decision for him to be there and to represent the legacy of the series. And my in-laws only teased me a little bit for crying at the TV, and they kindly waited until after the episode had finished, and I'd had a chance to pull back from the immediate emotional impact.
This was so awesome for 13 year old me who had gotten into Smith and Tennant simultaneously.
I find “Day of the Doctor” to be one of the more rewatchable episodes.
I mean the Doctor marrying Elizabeth was mentioned in The End of Time and The Beast Below. And in both cases someone said "so much for the virgin queen."
I understand Steven's desire to set the 50th during the Time War - it's such a cinematic idea, how could you not?! *But setting a story celebrating the Doctor during a time when he was least the Doctor?? Maybe not.* You either end this bombastic, fun, light story with double genocide, or you undo everything Russell added to the mythos of the show and the character of the Doctor. Neither option is desirable, perhaps Steven should have avoided the Time War entirely.
Having said that, I personally would have been satisfied if (after the three Doctors activate the Moment), they decide to save the children of Gallifrey! I mean, if the Time Lords really were as bad as the Daleks, why save them? But the children hadn't done anything wrong, and it is strange that the Doctor let them die. "All thirteen!" Doctors could save the children of Gallifrey, relocating them to an unknown planet in space in time. Then Capaldi's run could be about finding this new generation of Time Lords. But when he finally does, they're anything but grateful...
Just how I would have done it.
+
Luckily they don't give fans with no writing experience to write Doctor Who stories :)
The way Steven Moffat resolved the Time War was the most Doctor Who thing ever written about the Doctor. He, all thirteen of them, was the most like the Doctor that day. He lived out a whole regeneration fighting a war - something un-Doctor-like - but on the very last day, he came back in time to save himself and did the most Doctor-y thing he could have. On top of that, he saved the Zygon/Earth situation, showing that he always wants to avoid all out destruction. And on top of that, he didn't commit genocide against the Daleks either (something he detests even more than Daleks themselves), he just helped the Daleks destroy themselves in effect. There's no more fitting Doctor Who story than that.
He turned from the least Doctor-like Doctor to the most Doctor he's ever been on the last day of the war, when he lost any hope. It's the only story good enough for the 50th anniversary.
nightowl This is a take I really dislike and see FAR too often. Sure the political leaders are dicks but that doesn't mean that genociding an entire planet is justified
@@kwanarchive - whoa, calm down, man. As I said, *it's just my take.*
Secondly, I do have writing experience, doing six month's work experience for a tourist site in my home city. Thirdly, *what does that matter??* One of the best parts of this show is discussion, don't squander it due to something as petty as lack of qualification. Nathaniel's never showrun, does that render his channel and opinions meaningless? No! That's the *point* of fandom.
Finally, my version of The Day of the Doctor consides with Steven's exactly, except I'd only have the Doctor save the Children of Gallifrey. Everything you like about the story remains, it's just more respectful to Russell and doesn't read as much as a retcon.
@@rennythespaceguy7285 - all I'm saying is, it was made *repeatedly* clear that the Time Lords had become just as bad as the Daleks. If he bothered to save one, why not the other? You either save both, or neither. Russell went with neither, Steven just ignored this problem. What I'd have done is save the Children of Gallifrey, since they were presumably uncorrupted.
I am a big sucker for any plot involving the return of an “old guard” character, so when I heard the first doctor say “Calling the war council of Gallifrey - This is the Doctor!” I geeked out so hard I almost passed out.
I've seen this a few, ok, more than a few, times and every time I get to The Great Curator, I cry. I don't know why, possibly because he is my Doctor.
Tom Baker!! When this was broadcast and I heard that voice, I nearly fell off my couch. I recognized that deep tone immediately and was sent back to 1980 and my first viewing of DW. Matt Smith is my favorite Doctor, but Tom Baker will always be “my” Doctor. My first con was a Doctor Who one in 1982 and I was lucky enough to meet (and kiss on the cheek!) Tom Baker
You just made this episode at least 50% better for me with that last point, I never thought of it like that. That so beautiful and so The Doctor. So thank you for that.
While I think the episode would have been worse with an ending where Galifrey isn't saved/made more ambiguous would have been better for the show. Moffat never seemed to fully understand why loss is so important or comprehend that the timelords are more interesting dead which Chibs does. The story is good but usually overrated and despite being a 50th anniversary seems to fill more new who anniversary. John Hurt is great and it's so nice to see Tennent back in the role (he's now been gone twice as long since then). I think the story should of have been based just after the war Doctor activated the moment and no wanting to regenerate. I may seem very critical in this comment but I do like this episode
@anti Yeah but the opposite argument can equally be made; if a creator has a great idea for a Time Lord story, it couldn't be made in a "current" series because of the "irreversible" changes to the lore made by the predecessor.
Plus, the destruction of the daleks was a major part of RTD's Doctors' characters too, but that got undone a bajillion times even within his own run because daleks.
Alexander Taylor. Yes, the continued presence of so many Daleks is the best argument for this plot.
20:05 you could make that argument for the Valeyard.
I hate the idea of the Doctor "revisiting old faces" in the sense of regenerating into old bodies, because Doctor Who is about moving forwards, not backwards (plus, I'm sick of "WilL tEnNaNt rEtUrN??" articles.)
Personally, I prefer the idea that a future Doctor (sick of human companions) picks up the Fourth Doctor before his last story. They travel together, grow old, and separate. Four is about to die of old age but (as seen in The Time of the Doctor) reverts to his younger self before doing so, returning to his timeline for what he suspects to be his last adventure.
And then you remember all the Tennant fanboys who even before this episode were whining that he should have a "reverse regeneration" with Tennant also playing Twelve.
Oh my god all the depressing theories that ten and Rose would return and that Capaldi wasn’t actually the next doctor and the IMDb screecaps
I love the microcosm/macrocosm of the Zygons and the Time War. Thematically, it all fits.
But structurally...there are some issues. I think of it were just two Doctors, that may have worked better. Do we need Ten? He is just comic relief, ultimately.
Although I liked it when it aired, after several re-watches over the years since, it has become one of my least liked episodes, & mainly because of John Hurt. It’s not that he is bad, he is just so unnecessary. When it became evident that Eccleston wouldn’t come back, it should have become a Paul McGann story front & center. Huge missed opportunity imo.
10:08 Tbf that was what 10 said happened when talking to Ood Sigma about the stuff he'd been doing since Waters of Mars at the start of End of Time Part 1. They even repeat the same joke "good queen Bess, mind you her nickname is not..." and in this "the virgin Queen so much for history"
17:58 "If you could choose, Doctor, if you could decide who lives and who dies, that would make you a monster." - Mr Copper, Voyage of the Damned - and that quote just popped into my head as you were talking about him only saving the civilians putting him right back where he started.
I love this episode, particularly some of the inter-Doctor banter ("Shall we demand a better quality of door?").
Also the appearance of those furious eyebrows at the end...
This was the episode that made the 10th and 11th doctor make more sense to me. I was an old school Whovian where the 4th doctor will always be my doctor. and there was something about how childish the 10th and 11th doctor came across.... and the war doctor grumping at them about their behaviour said all the things I felt and made things better for me.
Its always been the tradtion in multi -Doctor Tv stories that whoever is the current Doctor gets the lead - it was the same in all previous ones. The 3rd Doctor leads in his anniversary episode, as did the 5th in his. I tend to find my opinion of this improving the more I hear what Moffat had to deal with behind the scenes to get it finished at all. The main way the Zygon plot plays into the main plot is the how they save Gallifrey - they get the idea from the Zygons.
I hate how they brought back Gallifrey, I hate it so much.
This is main issue that I take. It was always an option. There was nothing about War going to the future or seeing Ten and Eleven that gave him the ability to enact this plan. Freezing Gallifrey in time was always an option. Which effectively means that genocide occurred to the Doctor as the final solution before "well let's just move the planet". Like really? That weakens what the doctor had to do during the time war because it was so unnecessary.
The crux of the matter is that it *was* necessary. At least at inception. The Time War was this galaxy spanning event. The only way to conclusively end it was a reality warping device that systematically ripped every single time lord and every single dalek out of existence. There was no one battle that would solve it, no victory to be found. The Moment was the only option.
But because Moffat couldn't conceive of the Doctor having to do something terrible in the name of the greater good he boiled that terrible galaxy spanning conflict down to one fleet, and one planet and said "well remove those two and the war ceases". Yeah if you change the scale of the war it becomes very easily solvable. Which begs the question: why are we only doing this now? The time lord high council came up with "let's destroy all of space/time" before "let's move the planet out of the way"? Really?
To give an idea of how much the scale fell when Moffat rewrote it, Arcadia in several time war comics was a planet. The Fall of Arcadia was a massive battle that destroyed an entire world. In Moffat's recreation Arcadia is a city.
Can't believe you didn't talk about the opening. One of the best in the show. Especially all of Matt Smith's lines after they airlift the TARDIS.
Probably because it was so unnecessary. You can literally cut it and replace it with a five second clip of the doctor walking into the museum and asking unit why they called him and it wouldn't change anything. It's just fluff to show off that they have a massive budget for the 50th.
I was recovering from shoulder surgery when it aired so couldn;t go to a cinema screening, but when Tom Baker spoke off camera I just remember standing up.
Moment: "How many children were on Gallifrey that day?"
Me on rewatch: "Well, some Children are to Timeless to accurately count them" *frustrated facepalm*
I hated the fact that we didn't get a proper "search for Gallifrey" arc. Series 9 felt like it was dominated by its guest star, and the Gallifrey reveal felt unearned. It also wound up merely being a means to an end with the seemingly unending Clara exit.
Chibnall threw out all the good faith from this episode by deciding to retread the destruction of Gallifrey. I don't think it works in series 12. The Time War worked because it was such a shocking change from the classic series, and because it was The Doctor that did it. My response when it was revealed was an eye roll and "oh THIS again".
If this goes full circle - then are we going to have reviews of your reviews!!
I didn't like how they didn't include more doctors like Paul McGann as the eighth doctor or Sylvester McCoy as the seventh doctor
Great Review Nathaniel. Made me look at the Day if the Doctor in a new way. Love your summary that because Tom Baker will be the Great Curator, then the Doctor cannot die. Well done. Ps. Love the Osgood look.
To be fair to moffat he couldn’t have known we would never see Hurt on screen again without the help of a fortune teller
Moffat DOES THAT. He starts things he doesn’t wanna finish
Chibnall did worse
I definitely agree that they could have done more to make John Hurt's doctor feel like the main character. Especially because the way a lot of scenes are written it's pretty clear we're supposed to be exploring his point of view on the universe, but then they undermine that by focusing completely on Matt's doctor the very next second.
It definitely does feel like Moffat wanted to make the War Doctor the main character but he was afraid to, 'cause it feels like he was trying to have it both ways. Maybe it wasn't so much that he thought he needed to use his "main" doctor as it was worrying that too much focus on War would make the story too dark.
I wouldn't have minded. I like the idea of the story being focused more completely on a past version of the character meeting his future selves as a single possibility, while deciding whether to do the thing that will lead to him becoming them, and the main source of tension for the audience being whether he'll choose to give us that. And what better way to celebrate 50 years than to make a story that's really about the audience?
Again, it feels like that was the initial idea for the plot but it lost focus somewhere along the way.
Lovely review as always 😌 One thing that bugs me a little, is how disconnected it feels from Name of the Doctor. Like I had expected more of a continuation. Suddenly Clara’s a teacher, she’s no longer with the Maitland family who bear no reference anymore (not a bad thing but still slightly jarring), I know it’s referenced in a piece of prose and I just felt like her suddenly being a teacher was shoehorned in for nostalgia until it was worked into series 8/9. I’ve tried to think of the ending of Name of the Doctor, as us getting to see the war Doctor/ setting up trenzalore and giving us this secret and now, this episode we get to see this adventure. It’s taken me a while to realise that though. I guess maybe it’s meant to be set a good while since the last episode. I often wished there’d been another companion for Clara to play off, however, I’m aware it would’ve felt too overstuffed. I guess the 60th could be another stolen earth toned thing maybe.
Hi, a couple of days ago I watched your video called 'Doctor Who Dangling Plot Thread: The Time Agency', you uploaded last year. I was just wondering due to the revelations of Series 12 regarding the reveal of ''The Division'' and the return of Capt. Jack, if you could make an updated video regarding this subject, talking about possible new theories about The Time Agency, given what was revealed in Series 12 of Doctor Who, thank you!
Yay this on my birthday!! :)) Thanks Nathaniel! 💚
Well thought out points.
The zygon part was also good because it gave the doctors time to reflect on and talk about Gallifrey and when they did it. Think of the stuck in jail scene and stuff.
GREAT VIDEO, I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF YOUR OPTIONS, YET TO EACH HIS OWN. FANTASTIC WORK!
The explanation of Elizabeth I being angry with Tennant's Doctor Was given in The End of Time, when the Doctor was speaking to the ood, so it wasn't Moffat's idea that the 10th doctor married Elizabeth I, he was just using previously established cannon.
I wish there were more classic series references. It only has a few lines to reference the classics whereas it's the modern series references that are actually important. Shame we didn't have any classic Doctors to make a bigger impact than the Curator. I mean, McGann could've done a good job while he's still Young enough that it isn't distracting like if Davison came back for example.
It brought back a whole alien race from Classic. And there's the Five-ish Doctors reboot.
@@maurinet2291 yes but it was the FIFTYETH anniversary, not the EIGHTH and an insult to classic fans to have so few classic in it. Having the great one come back was a joy, but 4th through 9 all live, how hard would it be to include them, really!!!
Doctors I wish had more time on screen: John Hurt, Paul McGann & Christopher Eccleston. Unfortunately we won't see John Hurt on screen again since he passed away. I'm excited for the 60th anniversary in 2023. 😁
Every time I watch your show I find myself clapping, laughing and agreeing with everything you say. Keep it up thank you!!
I went in ready to enjoy some silliness, some Matt Smith emo stuff, some Tennant charm, and a half dozen great performances. I did NOT expect MY Doctor (correction, a "Curator," still protecting the stories and wonders of time in a brand new way). I cried like a baby, and only recently learned how not to do that (lying -- Elizabeth Sladen had recently passed, so it will always hit that heartstring). My only regret is the Doctors weren't MORE belligerent to each other. It seems to break canon :P
Not doing more Time War stuff was a good idea -- too depressing for a 50th Anniversary romp. I love it.
The time lord speech to the rabbit was so embarrassing, its so obviously moffat going "hey remember that other speech, that was good wasn't it"
I wouldn't be so sure they'll never bring Tom Baker back. With the rate CGI is advancing, one day all we'll need is a good voice impressionist.
Its like Moffat brought back gallifrey just to give him a way to grant the doctor more regenerations but then chibs comes along and just says the doctor never had a limitation on regenerations its only the genetically altered people who call themselves timelords have limits put in place.
Also i dunno about the Tom Baker bit... Chibs rewrote all of who history so im sure he could burn everything else to the ground if he wanted as well. Lets see how much damage he can do with his final season
Still one of the most enjoyable episodes of Who. Never tire of it.
This episode was just *chefs kiss* incredible, and I gotta say, even after all these years hence, every time I hear Hartnell come in and all the other Doctors, I just get chills and I jump up and down like a child on my couch.
Something I always wondered with your channel, this episode never appears in any of your lists or rankings which always seemed weird to me as it’s a solid episode and you always seemed to like it. Did you consider it being off the system because of its nature ?
Well since I don't count specials as standard episodes it doesn't come up in season rankings, and it's not good enough to make most of my broader "Top 10" lists. I still like it though.
Five(ish) Doctors Reboot is a better anniversary special than The Day of the Doctor.
I half agree :) The Day is so good tho. 5-ish is am-azing of course. Love those guys.
The fiveish doctor was more for the old fans whilst the day of the dr was for the younger fans
Pretty much every other thing celebrating the 50th was better than Day: Five(ish) Doctors, Adventure In Space & Time, Big Finish's Light at the End.
Ah, logistics, no arguments about the problematic details. Esp interesting points about the people of Gallifrey. Ah well, the whole thing is simply awesome to me. Seriously the best ep of many great ones, overall, of all Doctor Who history. Well curated.
That final expression on Tom Baker's face (Who Nose?) fills me with so much sadness...
As if he knows/nose that this is final appearance in Doctor Who...
Story never ends remind me of Sarah Jane Adventures haha yeah it is a good one also I like the tenth doctor being one to saved Gallifrey as he was the one that was most down and also the 9th doctor's was down about the war and talk about it a lot in there area but I thought it was quite vital for the 10th doctor to save Gallifrey and see it be saved good review
Mad idea for the 60th: the 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th & 13th doctors in the Death Zone on Gallifrey like in the Five Doctors :)
And another thing that irritates me about this, the Curator. Ok, so have the character, but instead of Tom Baker, bring in Carol Ann Ford. Eleven doesn’t recognize her, but she knows him, & gives him a quiet “yes Grandfather”. Susan as the curator, helping protect her grandfather’s legacy, that would have been worthwhile fan service.
Why would the Doctor not recognize Susan if she was played by Carole Ann Ford? Carole Ann Ford's face IS Susan's face. We know the Doctor remembers what Susan's last regeneration looked like, and we know that the Doctor doesn't always see people's age.
The 50th anniversary should have been a series long event.
The only scene I really like is the scene when the three doctors stand around talking about incredibly complicated ways to open the door with their Sonic's, congratulate themselves on how clever they are, then Clara walks in and it turns out they could have just opened the door, it wasn't even locked. Maybe I'm giving Steven moffat too much self aware credit, but it almost seems like a self-satire of how he writes "smart" characters like the doctor/sherlock
Is it clear how extensive the amnesia of the earlier regenerations is after they meet themselves? Do they remember meeting themselves, but not the events of what happened or do they forget everything? If it's the latter then Eleven remembering meeting the Curator would mean that he wasn't an incarnation of the Doctor, wouldn't it?
Ten feels very much tacked on to this entire story. Where Eleven and War could not conceivably be anyone else, Ten could basically have been any of the previous Doctors, and that hurts (hah!) the character here. It's also kinda sad that they picked a point where he didn't have a companion - Liz I doesn't really count, since she vanishes halfway through - because the dynamics there could have been fascinating, à la "School Reunion". That said, the moment in the cell where he goes off on Eleven for forgetting the number of dead children on Gallifrey is fantastic and goes a long way towards justifying Ten's presence in the story.
Billie Piper has probably the best line delivery in the special - her reaction to the fez dropping out of the time portal. Good to see that even sentient doomsday weapons still have human reactions to really unexpected things happening.
"You're basically just a rabbit aren't you?'
Best joke .
Is anyone else curious why Moffat didn't make 8 the doctor who went through the Time War?
He wanted to do 9, Eccelston said no, but why did he need to write a new Doctor? He wrote Night of the Doctor, so we know that, in canon, 8 WAS in the Time War (or avoiding it). If I were Paul McGann, I'd be kinda miffed XD
Moffat explained it by way of Night of the Doctor. Eight basically had to kill himself and force a warrior personality to come out.
Billie Piper as The Moment is AMAZING. I was never a huge fan of Rose, so it was nice for me to be able to enjoy her in a DW setting.
I really like the 50th anniversary special bit but the biggest unanswered question at least for me involved Clara cause there was nothing mentioned or shown in her part of season 7 that would make the sudden job change from nanny to an established teacher without showing any time has past cause the way we have the special most of us think it's not to long after the events that took place on Trenzalore not enough time for her to get a teaching degree and become an established teacher if the special wanted is to believe that a big jump forward in time had taken place there should have been a explanation of that narratively I know this could be a nitpick with me but to me is a major issue with Clara and the biggest evidence that proves people right when mentioning the lack cohesion of the character i do like how the zigon plot ties in with what the doctor was known to have done up until this point in the series cause of him seeing Kate having to make the same decision to save the earth was a good way showing the doctor what the decision looks like before he has to make it himself
I will always wonder what the 50th would have been if Eccleston had agreed to do it. He was to be the war doctor.
So am I the only one who *really* doesn't like Day of the Doctor on a spiritual level? They didn't even get Tennant's hair right!
10's hair changes from s2-4, its always in a state of flux
There is no "right" for Ten's hair, it's an ethereal entity that must change constantly to remain stable
He had to keep it as it was for another part he was playing.
I was SO SO aggravated at his hair
I hate that they devoted an entire episode to retconning a major part of the Doctors story. Its lazy, it's cheap, and it ignores the way that in real life you have to make tough decisions sometimes. Steven Moffat isn't just a lazy writer, he's a terrible human being.
in all realness 2013 i'd kinda had a shitty year cus my parents had split and my brother had been ill in hospital and my mum and brother watched this with me to try and cheer themselves up. They don't normally watch Doctor Who with me but they watched this and when my mum heard Tom Bakers voice she audibly gasped. But overall all three of us really liked this episode. Yeah the plot dragged a bit but it was fun and enjoyable and we loved the scene where we got all the Doctor's saving Gallifrey and my brother and I lost our minds when we saw Capaldi's eyes flash on the screen and non of us could predict Tom Baker but hearing his big booming voice we were like "OMG. SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!" so yeah we liked it a lot and it helped to cheer us up after a crappy year.
I think that this had been a better celebration of the entire show if it gave previous actors cameos like Tom Baker as the Curator and have quotes that wouldn't be distracting references to previous episodes but people could pick up on (both of which Zagreus did).
Also part of me wishes Day of the Doctor ended the way Stubagful once suggested of showing a vision of what would happen if the Time War didn't end and spreading the responsibility between the 3 incarnations (possibly with a reference to Fires of Pompey) and the Doctor visiting his granddaughter and first companions in an attempt to work out if he did the right thing.
ruclips.net/video/vN9epTFevYs/видео.html
I also find it annoying that 10 and Queen Elizabeth hooked up (mainly because I find it kinda badarse that she kept turning down suitors). But to be fair to Moffat, he was actually paying off 10's comment at the beginning of The End of Time (written by Davies) when 10 said that Queen Bess's nickname didn't suit her anymore. I do wish they had been more inventive than just a woman scorned though. Interestingly this also places 10 at the end of his timeline when he is procrastinating his regeneration. I feel like they wrote him a bit light-hearted for that though.
I felt like Moffat sabotaged David Tennant in order to lift Matt Smith up.
Here while it's unlisted
Aren't you a sneaky one?
Not the only one
Even without knowing how fraught it was behind the scenes, I always think that the 50th is Moffatt's line in the sand. Whatever you think of RTD's era as a whole, you cannot take away from him the reality that he is responsible more than anyone for New Who becoming a phenomenon to match the classic series. Whatever you think of Moffatt, the pressure to deliver the 50th Anniversary was overwhelming and he pulled it off. He was never going to make everyone happy, but it was easy to disappoint us and I don't think any but the hardcore Moffatt critics can argue this was disappointing.
Knowing the full story behind the scenes - the relative lack of time, the reality that contracts weren't settled until quite late in the day - it is all the more remarkable. It's fun, and it stands up to repeat viewings.
A couple of minor points: there wasn't much room for any other explanation for the QEI stuff; 10's dialogue from the start of End of Time took away all the ambiguity.
Interesting that you raise the humour with 10 - Moffatt says that Smith complained that Tennant got all the funny lines whilst Tennant was complaining that Smith was getting all the drama. Can't please everyone, I guess.
All of that aside - nothing can take away from the impact this had on first viewing. The gradual realisation that they were about to undo a major part of New Who cannon impressed me - this episode isn't just fun; something of import happens in it, that was impressive. The visceral reaction to the other Doctors being brought into it. The literal gasp when we get 12's eyebrows followed with the sheer joy of Tom Baker's appearance at the very end... It worked in the moment. I like that it still works for me 7 years later, but even if it didn't, it worked in the moment.
I'd also note a tiny moment that for me justifies the inclusion of 10 in the story. "The man who regrets... and the man who forgets." 10 represents the damage the Time War did to the Doctor far more than 11 does. Yes, ideally you'd have gone 9 and 11 here because 9 is even more affected by it but we all know why that was never going to happen. If the War Doctor only meets 11 at the end of his run, the War Doctor doesn't really see what the Time War will do to him.
I feel like that's ultimately where the story fails. There was this visceral reaction to realizing they're undoing the defining event of the revival series but all that really is, is shock value. The breaking of a taboo you didn't think they would ever touch. Once that shock dies down and the dust settles, what's left? They've undone the defining event of the revival series but, well, that event defined the revival series. Undoing it effectively replaces "The Doctor spent five seasons in agony and deep introspection about an earth shaking tragedy that reshaped the universe." With "The Doctor spent five seasons mopping about something that never happened."
Wonder if they could have used The Night of the Doctor as a cold open instead of a standalone story?
I am still sad, that I did not have seen this in cinema back then
i've always felt that the end of this story was exactly what Doctor Who needed. The story of the doctor trying to return to gallifrey is a perfect overarching narrative for the whole series, but it's immediately ruined in the very next episode and then even further by hell bent
Yeah, the return to Gallifrey could've made good stories for the next fifty years.
Moffat didn't know how to get them out of the doctors time stream so he didn't care to write it and he didn't know how to write the doctor looking for Galifrey so he didn't since in his own words "I thought that it was boring if the doctor would run around opening doors and going "nope Galifrey isn't there. Nope not there. Not there either." So I just didn't." I hate Moffat, why would you write about saving Galifrey in the first place?!
Can you cite me a source on that quote?
@@CouncilofGeeks I'll find the video interview. Give me a bit. It was a paraphrasing.
@@CouncilofGeeks Jump to 22:07 in this ruclips.net/video/ZOfIIqb8Uhg/видео.html and you will find it. Also this whole interview series as well as a lot of other interviews shows how bad Moffat is at running a show like for instance he wanted to make the show more American and therefore made it like a blockbuster for the longest time and forbid anyone to make 2 parters and every episode needed to have explosions. The list of ridiculous stuff goes on and on and on.
@@CouncilofGeeks - it's part 1 of the big interview. I don't know its name, but you must have seen it. From The Fan Show.
@@KerstinMamma - you say that, but it's needed. Russell brought Doctor Who back to the British consciousness, but Steven introduced it to the world. Thanks to these two men, they can never again cancel the show. Never. There's too many fans, regardless of the quality.
I loved the experience of watching it for the first time in the cinema. However, rewatches really are tough because of the reasons you stated. Knowing what they did with what they established, and the fact that nothing became if it makes this a little disappointing. I loved the chemistry between the three doctors, that was fun. However, I do agree with you, 10 was wasted.
Saw it in the cinema at the time and loved it then and love it now, strangely the episode i revisit the most
TBH, Moffat undoing RTD's destruction of Gallifrey will always make this one of my favorite stories. As a long-time Classic Series fan, going into the Modern Series with Gallifrey gone and destroyed by the Doctor himself NEVER sat well with me and felt extremely out of character for the Doctor to do, even in a moment of desperation. So glad that got fixed! (Of course, Chibnall just had the Doctor destroy it all over again, so there's that. 🤬)
The Master destroyed Gallifrey. It's not even debatable.
It's disappointing to see an actor you love underused. John Hurt was an amazing choice
The recurring thinking-things-are-Zygons jokes didn't bug me as much as the cringey bantering and riffing going on between the three Doctors, for what seems like the majority of the episode. I'm definitely with Twelve on bantering.
To me Matt smith is the Doctor and sort of a mascot to me of dr who
You don’t have the inhaler?? *gives side eye*
Oh I’m so ready to watch this review!
no mention of all the Doctors, including Capaldi??
I don't think the curator leads to your conclusion, though I wish it did. The series always makes clear there are points in Who we don't know about, and that might include the curator before regen. And maybe he was there for a finite specific reason: to convince eleven of his task. On the whole, I agree that big narrative - and this was a big narrative story - always ALWAYS - takes away from the the character. I understand why writers do it - hell, I'm a writer, and I feel the same gestaltian need to bring things under control with a narrative that changes things. But, no, it's always wrong with Who. The micro-narratives, the narratives of individual doctors should have an arc, but the soap opera of Gallifrey, the narrative of the "special" one, even her/his connections with the Master, don't require repeat visits. I think what the latest incarnation has proven is that it's the ellipses of fleeting connections, and small victories, once clotted, that is the DNA of emotional impact in the series
I still believe they brought Tennant back just to bring more fans in. John Hurt was teased to be important in the Name of the Doctor and of course Smith is great but the Day Of The Doctor Tennant just didn't seem like the 10th Doctor to me.
I absolutely hated the part with the nuke. It basically shows Kate is willing is willing to potentially start nuclear war (remember someone will be blamed), killing millions, potentially billions to stop a few Zygons. It just seems like an artificial means of raising the stakes when the room blowing up and the threat of the Zygons is enough.
The Zygons had access to (took over) the Black Archive. The bomb is there because of the Black Archive. It's explained in the episode. If the Doctor wasn't there, Kate didn't have a choice because just a few Zygons with access to all the technology in the Black Archive could take over the entire earth. It's literally explained in the episode.
kwanarchive I get that but it just seems to go a bit far to destroy London, which would kill millions even if the Royal family were on holiday and cripple Britain, likely leading to world war 3, when all you need is just a few non-nuclear bombs