What we love about Doctor Who (feat. Jay Exci)
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- There's almost 60 years of Doctor Who to dive into, and there's plenty of love along the way. Fellow RUclipsr Jay Exci joins me for a sharing session about our favorite stories, characters, and aspects of a show we both love.
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#doctorwho
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I think Jay's 5 hour video being maligned for being "too long" is ridiculous. It's like a series! It takes the Chibnall era episode by episode, so if you released it in bitesize chunks, no-one would bat an eye. Also, it's good criticism. I enjoyed it. I watched in stints over like a week.
The issue is that there *are* many drama-chasing essayists who stretch out their content just for the sake of views (and cash) to the point that the mere *concept* of a five-hour analysis video might seem cringy for some people.
@@Quirderph I know the people you're talking about.
Jay associates with them, and frequently appears on their livestreams
@@wrigglenight93 I like efap, but whatever
@@wrigglenight93 So what? if they watch it more then thats supporting them more so i dont get it. Thats a good thing to me.
I've been watching it for a month now, it's good.
I've never actually doubted it from either of you. Jay didn't make the five hour long video essay out of spite, it was made from her concern and care for a show that she loves. And you have been travelling through the modern Who stories for quite some years pointing out both the merits and flaws with the stories we've had in the past, something which has been a tremendous amount of time and effort for you. If these are people that don't like Doctor Who, my gosh that's some conviction to appear otherwise.
Jay identifies as a male I’m pretty sure
@@ceoofdinosaurs4276 no she doesn't, her friends have used she/her pronouns, she has taken her hormones in videos, her twitter has the trans flag in it, and has she/they/he as listed pronouns
@@abigailmcdowell4248 yep. just adding to this. she has said she accepts all pronouns currently as she's in the midst of the transition. but that is not the same thing as identifying as a man
oh ok my mistake then I thought I remembered them saying something about it but I guess my memory is bad
@@ceoofdinosaurs4276 Yeah, her other channel is "Jay Exci, Empress of Milk". I just hoped it was all for a joke, but apparently she doesn´t feel special enough by just identifying as a normal guy, unfortunately... I don´t know why, but we gotta respect that...
Didn’t realise this was the crossover I needed. Now I can’t wait
cringe
Right? This was great
5:42 Who else thinks that 'Prisoner of the Moment' sounds like a great title for the Doctor Who story?
For a time traveling show it seems like it should have been done already. It really writes itself.
@@shaneanderson2775 Considering how it took them over 40 years to finally put dinosaurs on a spaceship, I'm sure there's a lot of obvious ideas still to come.
The title makes me imagine an episode about a person stuck in a day that never ends. Not in a time loop way, it just never becomes night and nobody around them seems to acknowledge it and just go about the extended time normally.
Best story for each doctor
1. The daleks masterplan
2. The tomb of the cybermen
3. The time warrior
4. The city of death
5. The caves of Androzani
6. Davros
7. Remembrance of the daleks
8. Scherzo
9. Dalek
10. The stolen earth
11. Vincent and the doctor
12. Heaven sent
13. War of the sontarans
For me it's got to be Capaldi and Clara, I know that she may get some flak from many, including the host of this channel, but i love their dynamic for one basic, simple reason: the platonic love that they have for each other. I know many would say their relationship is highly toxic and that she became too Doctor like, but by the end of their time together I could understand how , and why, the Doctor would spend 4.5 billion years trying to break through an unbreakable wall, dying over and over and over again infinite times, because of his grief over her loss. She was that important to him. Makes me wish I had a real life companion like that. I relate to them. However unlikely it may be, and unpopular to many I'm sure, I would like to see Clara return one day and reunite with the Doctor again one last time just to see how she would react to their new incarnation before she has to finally meet her fate (or will she know that Gallifrey and the Time Lords have been destroyed?). The both of them together are magic for me.
I feel so alone when I say that Hell Bent is a decent story - hated because people hate Clara and didn’t get the Gallifrey arc they wanted rather than appreciating the quality of the dynamic between 12 and Clara. That story goes the distance in showing how toxic their relationship became- The Doctor becoming erratic and betraying his own nature the more Clara becomes a Doctor figure- and so the Doctor losing his memory of her was fitting. I do wish he didn’t get the memory back in his last story though- it felt like a real betrayal of that development since without the memory loss 12 would’ve never reached the character we had in Series 10.
@@marxistlynchist I don't think that's the only reason to dislike that episode. I quite liked Clara but bringing her back from death with no significant consequences really undermines the stakes. I also think there's a difference between acting erratic and totally out of character, I mean the Doctor shoots an unarmed man who had already surrendered. Also the hybrid arc didn't really go anywhere.
i completely agree with u ken!
@@Cicen2 the hybrid was Clara and the doctor, moffat himself confirmed this. Clara being brought back isn’t a fair criticism because she eventually still has to go back to the moment she died. And the doctor has killed many times especially in classic who, Tom baker’s doctor for instance twists the neck of some one during an episode. So it’s not out of character for the doctor to kill, especially if he thinks it will bring back to life someone he cares about.
I love doctor whos silliness. The way it doest take itself too seriously. The way things don't even need to make sense to work. I also love how it can tackle serious issues. Make you question things. Things like your own morals and philosophies.
I love how it makes me laugh, cry, warms my heart, puts me on the edge of my seat, scares me, and gets me thinking. I even kinda enjoy the fact it sometimes straight up irritates me.
Well people say things like "the sets wobble, the monsters are cringeworthy, the CGI is terrible, the stories make no sense" I say "I know but that's part of its charm" plus that's just a small amount of "bad stuff" in a whole universe of brilliant stuff. And when the small pile of bad stuff, is actually part of makes something enjoyable. I'd say that's pretty good going.
And if the characters feel emotiinslly real, then shaky sets and cheap costumes do not really matter.
You know when you talk about kinda obvious ideas at the end it made me remember one of mine.
You know you need to have a certain amount of episodes set in modern day Earth to keep the budget down? Usually you do that with a modern companion and they have some home life that they need to check back with between adventures.
I thought maybe you could do a companion from the future but who was an 'ancient' Earth Historian. The Modern Day Earth episodes are the adventure for them, while the sci fi crazy stuff is the normal day. Just thought it might be a fun flipping of the script for one companion/seasons worth.
You know, that's not a bad thought
That would be really fun. Imagine they’re walking through the streets of London and the companion is all like, “What is a Starbucks? Is it some kind of temple? That two-tailed mermaid must be their god… Fascinating!”
@@renegarza9 it's actually a siren! That's why it has 2 tails
thats actually such a good idea omg
they couldve done the same thing but with someone from the past, like victorian clara
oo that's such a good idea!
To be fair, Tegan was in 18/20 of Five's episodes, so I think she's as close to a definitive companion for his Doctor as it's possible to get. She's very much a proto-Donna, and did the whole challenging-the-Doctor-and-being-his-conscience schtick "before it was cool". The recent audio The Auton Infinity especially delves into their friendship, the fact that he sees her as an anchor of sorts, and how difficult the decision to leave in Resurrection of the Daleks was for her.
I think Vincent and the Doctor is the perfect example of the stories that sci-fi & DW can tell, that no other form of storytelling can. I think think is the best and most accurate portrayal of Van Gogh, because of the fantastical elements, since that's how his brain seems to have worked. As you said, i think that's why the portrayal of depression and Van Gogh's often portrayed "moodiness," makes perfect sense here. And how else could we give Van Gogh what we all want, to let him know how loved he is now, except through time travel? Sci-fi can go places emotionally few other genres can.
My mom was a huge Van Gogh lover, but never liked sci-fi and never watched DW, but I made her watch this episode and she loved it - and cried - and said she wished that had really happened to Van Gogh. And there you are!
I'm biased because I met him but I love Matt Smith. What I like about him is how he somehow felt old and young at the same time.
Lmfao when you said “I wish there was a villain version of river song” I was just like “but isn’t that missy” 😂 psychopathic time lord who basically becomes his time travel wife. Honestly tho, azure and swarm could have been that concept of a villain knowing everything about the doctor bc they met them in the future and then the doctor has to live through that, instead of them being from lost memories.
That 5h video is one of my very favorite videos on youtube. Idc that it's long, it's AMAZING. And it voiced a lot of things I also thought but couldn't articulate as well.
For me, we’re I to create a list, it would go a little like:
Hartnell: The Daleks
Troughton: The Invasion
Pertwee: Inferno
Baker: City Of Death
Davison: The Visitation
Baker: Revelation of the Daleks
McCoy: Remembrance of the Daleks
McGann: Night of the Doctor (haven’t listened to Big Finish, sorry)
Eccleston: Dalek
Tennant: Silence in the Library
Smith: The Eleventh Hour
Capaldi: Heaven Sent
Whittaker: The Haunting of Villa Diodati
For me it's...
Hartnell: "The Time Meddler"
Troughton: "The Power Of The Daleks"
Pertwee: "The Ambassadors Of Death"
T. Baker: "The Brain Of Morbius"
Davison: "Snakedance"
C. Baker: "Vengeance On Varos"
McCoy: "The Happiness Patrol"
McGann: "The Chimes Of Midnight" (Big Finish)
Eccleston: "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances"
Tennant: "The Impossible Astronaut"/"The Satan Pit"
Smith: "The Eleventh Hour"
Capaldi: "World Enough And Time"/"The Doctor Falls"
Whittaker: "Revolution Of The Daleks"
@@EvelynMadisonFaust may as well list mine..
Heartnell: “The Keys of Marinus”
Troughton: “The Mind Robber”
Pertwee: “Inferno”
T. Baker: “The Ark in Space”
Davidson: “The Caves of Androzani”
C. Baker: “The Ultimate Foe”
McCoy: “Survival”
McGann: “Terror Firma”
Eccleston: “Bad Wolf/Parting of The Ways”
Tennant: “Human Nature/Family of Blood”
Smith: “The Doctor’s Wife”
Capaldi: “World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls”
Whittaker: “Haunting of Villa Diodati”
For the War Doctor, his best story is Engines of War, the novel that pre-dates the audios. Cinder is the ONLY companion of the War Doctor, and it makes his transition from cold hearted warrior (which was implied by Night of the Doctor) into being the damaged man we meet in Rose feel much more gradual than Day of the Doctor did.
They built the War Doctor up as this incarnation who betrayed everything the Doctor stood for, but when we see him in Day of the Doctor, he seems like every other Doctor. Engines of War makes it believable that he WAS this hardened Warrior but is now ready to make his last stand but has softened a bit.
In fairness, Day of the Doctor also makes a point of saying that War Doctor was the Doctor on the day it was impossible to get it right. That when there was no better way to ever find a good solution, they chose to be what the Doctor stood for as best as was possible.
In other words, it's the end of the war, and the Doctor has chosen peace. The battle hardened Doctor intrigues me, and I really need to get around to seeing those Time War stories (can the audiobooks and comics match my imagination of what a Time War would be? Only one way to find out), but by virtue of setting the episode on the final day, not long before the Doctor regenerated into 9 (who, as we obviously know, was willing and able to keep the promise of the Doctor), I guess there wasn't much other choice.
@@theguywithsomething8634 Thanks for the comment, I love different perspectives. I agree, at least they verbally expressed why he was totally Doctor-like, but for me it's a case of "show, don't tell." Maybe some more of like PTSD symptoms in the War Doctor would have sold the story more for me.
Anyway, when you get around to it I would personally recommend the Engines of War audiobook as a starter since it was the first non-Day of the Doctor War Doctor content released. If anything is going to live up to Davies's descriptions of the Time War, it's that one. It's narrated by Nicholas Briggs who on top of voicing the daleks in the show does a decent John Hurt impression as well, plus he was basically showrunner for the later War Doctor audios so the continuity holds up. Plus it sort of acts as "the episode right before Day of the Doctor" in terms of the War Doctor's timeline, with the ending leading directly into the anniversary special. From there you'll want to jump into the Only the Monstrous boxset from Big Finish, since John Hurt gets to perform the role and really play the character more than he did on screen.
59:00 one of the more powerful moments I don't see talked about much with that episode was Yaz.
The fact she's doesn't have a suitcase, bag or any possessions when she's running away subtly implies to me that maybe she wasn't running away and was looking to end her life and it just took one person being kind to help turn that around.
It helped settle a lot of Yaz's gungho today's a good day to die attitude she seems to have.
that's definetely the way i interpreted it when i saw the episode! i was recently talking to a mate about it and they mentioned that moment and it got us into a little conflict about whether yaz was running away or trying to end her life. we ended up rewatching the clip and we realized it was very ambigious. there was no clear answer to our question. it could be seen either way.
I feel like Madame Kovarian was supposed to be the “bad River Song” because she was constantly trying to kill the Doctor for reasons we didn’t know about until “The Time of the Doctor,” but they just kind of sidelined that arc for most of Series 7, then dealt with it with an off-handed line in TofD.
The plan was for a fourth Smith season to wrap up the arc in a neat bow whilst developing 11 into an even darker and older characterisation- but then he decided to leave and so NoTD and ToTD had to conclude it all. It would’ve been amazing for us to actually learn how Kovarian actually broke away from the Church instead of us just being told The Silence were rogue confessional priests.
Someone might have told Matt about that fourth series before he decided to leave. Which he did around the same time as Arthur and Karen did. Moff thought he would be able to convince Matt to stay on, but couldn't.
I don't think there was ever any "Grand Plan" to tie up all the silliness that formed the "Silence Arc" and the "lets explain it standing round a table" was the last throw of the dice. I imagine there was a lot of, "I'm sure someone on the internet will find a way to make it all make sense..." going on in Moff's head when he wrote that scene. (A bit like the "How did Sherlock survive the fall..." hand wave.)
Like you I adore Capaldi. Getting to watch him grow was such a treat. He also dropped the kind of silly innocence of Matt Smith (Don't get me wrong i adore Smith) but Cpaldi really did feel like the cynical old alien who has seen too much death and destruction.
I agree, I love Capaldi as the Doctor a lot. Also I adore him as a person and the story that he always wanted to be the doctor.
It's super interesting. After watching David Tennant I really didn't like Matt Smiths Doctor. I couldn't get used to him and it took me one re-watch to finally be okay with the Doctor changing so much. And now he is also very high up there for me (it's difficult, my heart belongs to David Tennant but they all have something that makes them special and unique so I really can't pick a favorite).
I really like the interpretation of Matts Doctor as the kind of doctor who tries to ignore and suppress everything terrible that has happened or that he caused (even though it sometimes comes out). And so he is the exact opposite with his silly innocence as you call it. It feels like compensation to me and that is being dropped when Peter Capaldi becomes the doctor. He is bitter at first and we can finally get to see him grow, something Matt Smiths Doctor was not able to do. And Peter Capaldi does an amazing job at that.
So I adore them all (except Jodies Doctor whom I still don't really understand but... well that's not her fault) and they are all incredible at what they do.
Honestly thankyou. Last couple years I'd forgotten how much I love Dr Who. This positive look back though has sparked my nostalgia. Gonna rewatch some of my old favourites and give some big finish a go.
My favourite thing with the show right now is the fanfic tbh. Both my own and my friends'. We all have great ideas that would work really well for seasons of the show. There's so much untapped potential in the fan field that I really hope the BBC can find someone exciting to tell their story for S14
The villain River Song idea is basically what the Reverse Flash should've been on The Flash.
9 is and forever will be MY doctor 🩷 But I also think Capaldi is so underappreciated. I love him.
I just love the variety. There are so many different kinds of Doctor Who out there. Every era has a unique style and you can even get completely different episodes between weeks. For instance, you can get a gothic horror story literally a well before an intergalactic war in the future. You even get times when the quality takes a nose dive. From the great Heaven Sent to the abysmal Hell Bent.
The whole premise is just a mad alien in a box dashing from place to place. It’s also very silly and ridiculous. I like silly and ridiculous, especially when it’s mixed in with some of the darker concepts and ideas that the show takes on.
And that is in the early DNA of the show even before they had regeneration forced on the producers by the failing health of the first actor.
@@eastlynburkholder3559 Indeed. The Hartnell era is actually one of my favourite eras of the show to revisit. It’s one of the few times I think a TV show has hit the ground running from the very first episode.
@@samuelbarber6177 if you think of how the frame of Dr Who is like time tunnel with Irving but that show only went one season . Can't type well today.
@@eastlynburkholder3559 to my knowledge even the Time Tunnel didn’t really go forward in time or even to other planets. It’s taken Legends of Tomorrow six seasons to go that far and they barely touch on the future in certain seasons.
10:07 That’s a great quote, though my personal favourite doctor who quote has to be…
“This is Katana, she’s got my back. She could cut all of you down with one sword stroke like mowin’ the lawn. I would advise not getting killed by her, her sword traps the souls of his victims.”
-Peter Capaldi, Heaven Sent
In fairness, Peter Capaldi *could* probably make that line work.
@@Quirderph Almost certainly!
@@ironick729 I imagine it as a furious-yet-desperate rant at the villain, with a "okay, this *might* not work, but if it *does* it will work amazingly"-tone to it.
@@Quirderph dang it I want to hear him say it now! The ironic thing is he is in the new suicide squad!
The one with planet in the title and the one where the 4th doctor falls down the pit is the planet of evil
Just discovered Jay's content yesterday and I already love it. I can't wait to see this!
Omg please tell me this is gonna be as long as Jay's other videos. Collab of the decade! Can't wait to get my popcorn and devour this tomorrow
I do think that there are interesting parallels between Chibnal Who and Rise of Skywalker. It's like the creator wants to dismantle the last person's work. Moffat's big storylines seem to be primarily what timeless child is built to dismantle.
Great video. Also, that’s a really cool idea about a villain meeting the doctor out of chronological order. Reminds me of when Queen Elizabeth showed up during series 3 and tried to have him decapitated.
Nice to see this after catching a “I’m not gonna make a five-hour video”-themed zinger at the end of a Geeks episode the other day.
I love Capaldi . I love the telepathic paper sign scene with Bill. That scene sold me forever and unrepentably on Capaldi as the Doctor. I enjoyed the smiley icon show.
I love the " you attend my lectures but you are not on the roll " Capsldi says. BILL SAYS NO I DON'T. not yelling but with emphasis. And Capaldi is grouchy and can not hold his ground in a debate or argument with Bill. I love Bill as a character. And Capaldi did not always have the best scripts but he turned straw into gold whenever he even had a bit of straw.
My picks for each doctor
1 Dalek invasion on earth
2 Mind robber
3 Time warrior
4 Talons of Weng Chiang/City of death
5 Caves of androzani
6 Holy Terror
7 Master
8 Scherzo/Chimes of Midnight
War Day of the doctor
9 Empty child/Doctor dances
10 Midnight
11 Time of the doctor
12 Heaven sent/Doctor falls
13 Haunting
My top 5
5 Chimes of Midnigjt
4 Caves of Androzani
3 Scherzo
2 Doctor falls
1 Heaven Sent
I'd personally pick either Blink or the Library two parter for 10, but there's a lot of options
I'll look forward to seeing this. I'm a big doctor who fan.
My two favourite DW RUclipsrs - it's like a multi-doctor story!
Yesss what a collab!
I recently watched Jay's 5 hour video, and I just want to say, I thoroughly enjoyed it. You can tell they love Doctor Who, because someone who didn't would not invest that kind of time and effort in the critique.
As for what part of DW brings me the most joy, as a child of the 70's that grew up watching him on PBS, I have to say nearly anything with Tom Baker. I know it makes me a basic b*tch, but 4 and a strong Sara Jane is perfection. I love that they can both tell the other off, but that it's also perfectly obvious that they care about each other very much.
Oooo. Two of my favorite Doctor Who reviewers on one stream. Can't wait to watch this what a treat. I routinely put on Jay's 5 hour review in the background while I am working.
I recently watched a video talking about how Dalek in series 1 worked to help fix the Dalek's reputation and some of the clips they showed made me tear up and remember how much I love this show.
Seasons of Fear on Big Finish! It's exactly what you said with a villain being met in reverse though is resolved in a different way to what I think you would head in. I feel like it could have been utilised over many more stories but as a one off it was still brilliant and there's a beautiful little moment of foreshadowing for later stories. Main range, 8th doctor and Charlie.
05:12 I did that! No set schedule, just watched when I wanted. I watched in order from Heartnell to Whitaker. Took about a year and 4 months.
I'm currently watching the entire show in chronological order, and I'm on season 9 of classic Doctor Who.
I love that you guys are doing collabs, been a big fan of both for ages
Love LOVE LOVE Jay! I’ve been watching him since his Cinema Sins Sins days.
I’m so thrilled that people that disagree about some of the minutia can get together and have a productive conversation like this.
59:56 ayyy. I think it's a very tender scene, love that moment. She treats Graham as an equal in demonstrating that she feels just as comfortable sharing her insecurities with him, as he is to her. She doesn't have all the answers, and tries to tenderly make it clear that if she can't overcome her own issues, she certainly can't help someone else. Given the theme of communication issues in the story, it's a perfect little way to end. It treats the Doctor not as a hero archetype, but as her own character. It's rare and nice to see.
It's very much a _"We're in this together"_ moment without being insufferable enough to say that directly. A lot of people complain about the lack of subtlety Chris's era (and I'm amongst them), but I think the request to remove this scene or make what it's saying more overt proves that's not actually what those people want.
I will die on this hill, for this scene.
I'll take this over a generic _"I'm the Doctor and I save people!"_ speech any day. And to those saying 13 should have brought Graham to a future hospital and cured his cancer - get some damn perspective. There are few arguments in regards to our silly sci-fi show that make me genuinely furious, but that one boils my blood.
best doctor: 10
best newwho story: fathers day
best classic story: Time Warrior/Planet of the Spiders
best Companion: Captain Jack/Donna
best series: 4
favourite villian: emperor dalek
nice take!
i just noticed how small council of geeks is i found them first and watched them for ages then found jay and loved there stuff too so kinda mad the sub count difference
My favorite part of this show is listening wonderful fans like you two talk about a series you love so much.
That idea at the end about a character who really hates the Doctor and keeps showing up on their timeline sounds like what they've already got going with the Master, though they could change it up a little by having the Doctor not recognize them. It also sounds like the villain from Iron Man 3.
I hope we get good audio content for 13 in the future. Seeing how other Doctors were practically made by their extended material makes me hopeful. :)
So, here's all the things I love about Doctor Who:
Favourite Doctor: 7th Doctor
Favourite Companion: Ace
Favourite Villain: The Chief Clown
Favourite Dalek Design: Special Weapons Dalek
Favourite Stories (Not including Big Finish because I haven't listened to enough):
- 1st Doctor: The Keys of Marinus
- 2nd Doctor: Tomb of the Cybermen
- 3rd Doctor: The Sea Devils
- 4th Doctor: Genesis of the Daleks
- 5th Doctor: The Five Doctors
- 6th Doctor: The Two Doctors
- 7th Doctor: The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
- 8th Doctor: Night of the Doctor
- War Doctor: The Day of the Doctor
- 9th Doctor: The Empty Child
- 10th Doctor: Utopia
- 11th Doctor: The Name of the Doctor
- 12th Doctor: World Enough and Time
- 13th Doctor: The Haunting of Villa Diotati
Favourite Classic Story: The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
Favourite Modern Story: World Enough and Time
Favourite Story of all Time: The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
Favourite Big Finish: Protect and Survive
Also, one the subject you brought up at the end of a Villain, I had an idea of what I'd want to be a Villain one day. I want the Doctor to face an adversary that is so dangerous and terrifying that as soon as they realise who it is, the Doctor becomes extremely scared and vulnerable to the point where they admit defeat. I want a Villain that can break the Doctor.
I would also want a Villain that can show the Hypocrisy of the Doctor. We were close with the Valeyard and nearly got it with the Doctor Simeon incarnation of The Great Intelligence. But I want to explore more of how despite the Doctor being held up as a hero, they have caused so much death and destruction across the universe and have committed genocide on several occasions, even to the point of extinction such as in Image of the Fendahl and Terror of the Vervoids. The Doctor is the most dangerous character in the show's history, and not in a good way.
Your idea at 1:15:28, about a villain we meet out of order that we don't know yet but they know the doctor reminds me of the Big finish story seasons of fear. Its the story right after the chimes of midnight, and in it while 8 is off on a stroll after dropping Charley off some random dude off the street comes up to him and says I killed you in the future. And the story is 8 travelling through time just to figure out who this guy even is.
Its a solid fun story with some good moments in it. The biggest knock to it though is its directly after the chimes of midnight, so if you binged through the first 50 of the main range like me (since they are all free on Spotify) you're still going to be thinking about chimes. Cause that is a hard story to live up to as a follow up.
I loved this discussion, and I love both your and Jay's content! You have some diverging opinions on things that I always find interesting because it opens me up to several different perspectives on both Doctor Who and other media!
Omg you and jay exci together I’m dying. I love jay so much. And i watch your vids almost every time you post. Thank the heavens
I've been hoping for this collab
My favourite thing about the Doctor is the possibility that you brought up of anti-Riversong because I desperately want them to be called either “desert silence” or “silence dry.”
I really enjoyed this. As soon as you acknowledged Jay's video a little bit ago, I really hoped for something like this, to have a long form DW gush video. How nice that it actually happened.
I watched the Fall of Doctor Who video (not all at once, but chopped up). And what frustrated me was that it could have done with *a lot* of editing. I feel like Jay's best, most impactful points get lost. It's not that their criticisms aren't based (even though I disagree) it's that there's so much extraneous bitching basically. It could have been a very solid and persuasive hour and 45 mins video. But as it stands, it's kind of a failure to me :/
Blink's DVD thing was a lot like an extension of the City of Death's "This is a fake"
My favorite thing about dr who (after the everlasting nature of the property and the doctor being my favorite character in all of fiction)
Is that Canon doesnt matter. Fan stories if good are canon to me. For eg the audio exhausted supplies, its available on yt and its made my fans. Plus its great.
When fans like Moffat or Shearman(my 2 fav who writers and writers in general) become writers its simply brilliant.
I'd quite like to see a copy of Shearman's screenplay for Dalek just to see how much of it was actually rewritten by Davies. According to Rob it went through over a dozen re-writes...
I used to be a defender of this era but jay's critique was among the things which removed my rose tinted glasses.
I don't consider myself a defender of the Chibnall era, even though deep down I'd like to be as it's still DW, but I am a defender of the show as a whole, including the current era. It's had it's up and downs in the past, most notably in the 80's of course but it always finds it way back. I don't see the current Chibnall era being any different, especially as we now have a definite end to it. As the Doctor themselves said "Change, my dear and it seems not a moment too soon."
@@Elwaves2925 i wanted to like this. Trust me i did. Bit sadly chibs simply is nowhere near as good as the earlier showrunners.
@@scix8794 I agree and I believe you. I think there's many that want to like his era but find it a struggle. I still say that Chibnall is a good writer, he's just not a good DW writer.
I feel like the Queen who Tennant encounters at the end of the Shakespeare code hates the doctor and we find out why in Day of the Doctor? Or are they different queens?
They're both Elizabeth I.
@@jamma.77 cool, so I guess that's as close to a hater version of River Song as there is so far.
My first was Pertwee, and I loved "Planet of the Spiders." When I was growing up with his Doctor they were also doing repeats of the second Doctor who I really enjoyed as well. Like many Baker though had me committed to Who. Funnily enough I really loved Romana as a companion. It gave me a sense, moreso now, of where the Doctor "fitted in" in Timelord society, and I enjoyed that in some ways she felt, and he recognised, that she was more informed than him on a great many things, but he was much more streetwise with the universe than her.
Ooh a crossover of 2 great personalities
wow this gave me nostalgia vibes like jay doctor who was always been there for me my first memories of doctor who was the iconic speech from the daleks as they betray davros and this is when my obsession of this show was sparked
My first memory of doctor who was Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone, I wasn't necessarily paying close attention (it was my brothers show at that time) but I still love that two parter today
A great idea I feel they have not yet used for some reason is having a sort of evil-turn for a companion, they start like a standard good person travelling with the Doctor but then something changes and they become a recurring enemy.
I would say the main hurdle is those things are REALLY hard to balance. You tend to end up with one of two scenarios: an ally audiences love so much that they don’t truly buy the villain turn, or an ally where you buy the villain turn because you didn’t believe the initial friendship all that much.
Capaldi & McCoy are my favourites so glad we have some fans ❤️
For a while, before they went more into the Doctor's childhood and the academy and so on, I actually thought the whole "the Doctor meets a character out of order and makes them hate him" might have been an avenue for the Master. Canonically, Delgado is either his 12th or 13th incarnation, so it always seemed like there was potential for an earlier Master to meet a modern Doctor and thereby influence their relationship. I even thought Missy might be that, since the path from Simm to Gomez was never all that clear in the narrative. It probably would have been too much of a minefield to do a retcon like that, but still.
Jay´s 5 hour video was phenomenal. I´m really looking forward to this. If he plays mobile games again on stream, just kick him!
Can we all take a moment to think about the idea that most of Tennant's strongest moments as the Doctor are all sad? Think about it. I'll wait.
I'd been aware of Who since Tom Baker made his debut on PBS in the 70s but never fully watched because of the sheer volume of episodes. Two years ago I decided to watch every ep from the beginning (thanks BritBox). One of my fondest memories was actually watching the Underwater Menace and other Tele Snap eps. Something about the episodes being missing and the crudeness of just hearing audio along with the still images enhanced the weirdness of the show. I love all iterations of the Doctor and even the least eps have something special. Long live Doctor Who and thank you for the great video!!!
Add Stubagful in the chat and we have the best doctor who RUclips video ever
1:15:45
_“Queen Elizabeth the First!”_
“Doctor?”
_“What?”_
“My sworn enemy.”
_“What?”_
“Off with his head!”
_“What?”_
…
*“What have you done to upset her?”*
_“How should I know? Haven't even met her yet. That's time travel for you. Still, can't wait to find out.”_
the whole "meet a caharcter who hates the doctor, then figure out why" is basically the plot of seasons of fear, an 8th doctor bf! its really good and free on spotify, though it is also one episode rather than an arc
Can't wait to see this collab!
I agree that The God Complex is an underrated episode, I definitely think it deserves more attention and love. I also just gotta say that The Sarah Jane Adventures is my comfort show, I love it with all my heart ❤️
Man, series 3 to 5 of SJA especially were my childhood and I love every second.
I mean, I guess the silence is kind of a reverse river song type. The silence got created by the doctor chilling on trenzalore, then showed up 2/3 seasons earlier, with the doctor not knowing who they are.
Would much rather have what you said, which is basically Agrajag from hitchhiker's guide.
omg my two favourite youtubers had an hour-long discussion of Doctor Who!!!!!
Oooooo. Two of my favorites. Looks like a pre-like on this video!
This podcastish thing, just made me to start to rewatch my favorite Troughton Story "The Mind Robber".
Favourites. 1. The Keys Of Marinus. 2. The Invasion. 3. The Green Death. 4. The Talons Of Weng Chiang. 5. Caves Of Androzani. 6. Vengeance On Varos. 7. The Curse Of Fenric. 8. Chimes Of Midnight. 9. Empty Child/Doctor Dances. 10. Waters Of Mars. 11. Vincent & The Doctor. 12. Mummy On The Orient Express. 13. Gave up after a couple of episodes.
On the topic of characters that should return that haven’t, I wanna give a big shoutout to Anthony Selby’s Sabalom Glitz. He was basically Jack Harkness before Jack Harkness, and it’s a shame that he’s gone now. Rest In Peace Tony Selby
Where in the franchise does he come in?
@@ginge641 he appeared in The Mysterious Planet and Dragonfire, and I believe a few audios
From the 11th hour, I want to know what happened to the ducks! I’ve been waiting for years to find out about those birds. Maybe they were off auditioning for Amy’s Choice and the Dream Lord’s transition music….
Season five is just a great season overall. Dare I say the best single season of the new run?
This may be the first time I've smashed the like button before watching the video.
It's kinda sad that we had to actually do a vid where Jay had to explain that yeah, she actually does like Doctor Who. She ended it with talking about her favorite episode from the new era and had an entire segment dedicated to some random ad about buying a Doctor Who cutout. Still, this was a good vid!
Wasnt Madame Kovarian like a character who hated the Doctor without him knowing why, because of events that hadnt happened yet in the Doctor's timeline?
She was but she was a bit more of a background feature than I have in mind.
1:17:41 Scarlet Witch: "You took everything from me..."
Thanos: "I don't even know who you are"
My first doctor who episode must have been Dragonfire. I vividly remember * that * cliffhanger. I also remember watching all of season 26 on their original airing. With Andrew Cartmel I was in safe hands.
I have to agree with Jay on this one, I think New Who *purposely* took a lot from the Doctor Who movie. The vortex, the TARDIS, the Doctor's personality, even Rose is sort of a combination of Ace, Grace, and Charley. Also the fact that they started NuWho with Number 9 and not a new 8 says everything
I agree. I’m sure I remember Russell T Davies talking about it a fair bit on Doctor Who Confidential (or something similar) in 2005.
5:11 I started this during 2020 lockdown and I'm still going!
Would love to see you guys chat about DW more often!
I love the Master audio
It was like it was written for me, a Haunted House, Geoffrey Beavers, Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde references and themes, the Dr at their worst. It's such good stuff
All of the Hartnell episodes are on streaming service BritBox.
What I love is seeing my two favourite genderqueer WhoTubers on the same screen! This was absolutely lovely and I especially loved that moment where Jay scratched their shoulder and revealed a lot of the collarbone
(hopefully I'm not being too much of a creep)
Watching Doctor who in the chronological order is awesome, I am on my second viewing of Doctor Who and really enjoying myself.
Now, it took me 4 years to reach Season 17, but I don't mind!
Time travel is inherently messy. Long term shows may not want to dabble with it too much, least it bog down.
Fun conversation.
Favorite Doctors: Six, Thirteen, Three, Ten, Nine
Favorite Companions: The Brigadier, Jo, Peri, Rose, Captain Jack, Donna
Standout stories: The Green Death, Planet of Fire, Revelation of the Daleks, The Long Game, Gridlock, Twice Upon a Time, It Takes You Away
The seventh doctor has an amazing final two series, I really couldn’t choose
At 55 minutes in the essential element of the doctor is defined.
'kay, double-post, but this needs its own comment.
While I love the idea and I want to see it too now, I think there's one very serious pitfall with the whole "villain who meets the Doctor in the wrong order" concept.
It seems to me this would have to be a villain who, by their nature, must appear multiple times, but each time they do they get less threatening. 'cause even if their motivation to be the bad guy remains strong for their first few appearances, the Doctor is still learning lessons from them at the same time as they are un-learning the lessons they get from him.
I can still imagine a couple ways that it could be made interesting though: making them the subject of a tight series arc would probably be more rewarding for viewers than spreading out their appearances the way River Song was. It's not something the show normally does, though, so the writers would need to be very sure of what they were doing before they committed to that.
The other option I can think of would be using an established villain who's already got the right aspects to fill this role.
The Great Intelligence was... kinda sorta like this in series 7, but not in a particularly satisfying way since it was a retcon of deep lore. It could still fit the role at a stretch if they explored other parts of its lifespan, but we already know the Doctor was present for its birth.
The other one that immediately pops into my head is the Valeyard, since all we really know about him is that he is somehow an aspect of the Doctor's personality, and that the sixth Doctor met him out of order. The questions of how he was created and why he's the way he is just might be enough to drive a plotline about him even as, from our perspective, he gets younger. It would be bending the premise a little because we (and the Doctor) do know *who* he is, sort of, but we don't know *why* he exists, and that seems like the more important question.