@@JDT-Loadsamoney Ok so Sega wanted their brand to go so much farther, so they sponsored Williams and the European GP, now renamed to the Sega European GP. That is why a Sonic trophy exists
Points are scored on sundays, but what if it wasn’t the case? What if F1 was all about qualifying? How would the standings from 1950 to 2021 look based only on qualify results? I think the 50s/60s would be the most affected due to reliability issues during races
The interesting implicit consequence of this alternative-F1-universe is that, well, F1 has become a quasi-endurance sport. That's why nothing much changes from the 90's on, I'd say - the best teams tend to be the most reliable, too. But in this alternative universe, everybody knows anything but a victory counts for basically nothing. Building fast but unreliable cars would be a real strategy (one I suspect Newey would absolutely love), and I suspect that at least for a time we'd get some massive changes due to changed development strategies before safety concerns, cost concerns, or just the sheer madness of cars blowing up left and right would incentivize regulators to step in and change something.
I've been playing around with a lot of F1 stats recently, calculating the drivers and constructors standings for each year since 2015 (so far, I'm working backwards) but using all of the last 4 points systems (2019, 2010, 2003, 1991) to see what it would have changed, it's really interesting stuff. No changes in WDC yet but one of the most interesting changes I've come across is that if the 2019 system (same as 2010 but including fastest lap points) had been introduced a year earlier, Valtteri Bottas would have jumped from 5th to 3rd, as he had 6 fastest laps Vs Verstappens 2 and Raikonnens 1
@ I did start playing around with a system where each position is a point (so 20 points for 1st down to 1 point for 20th) recently, hadn't considered doing the IndyCar one but I'll probably add that one too!
So to sum it up, the medal system would have been great if your name is Clark or Mansell, but terrible if your name is Piquet or Rosberg. What an incredible video, I love playing around with stats like this and the amount of work that went into this must have been massive.
Mate your videos are crazy, the time it must have taken you to do this! Your passion for F1 is evident, keep it up because your videos are very interesting and nice to watch.
Awesome work. I wish something that is just absurd, what if drivers never retired from a race and kept their position to the end of race. On another side, the medal system gives a more fight and glory for the 1st place, instead of the podium as it is right now. Maybe things could be spiced up if 3 silver medals counted as gold one, and 3 bronce ones as a silver. And create some other "medals" up to 5th position. Constructors championship should remain the same, using points, but just 1 point difference from 1st to next (10, 9,8,7, etc) .
@@doghat1619 Yeah, no matter what I try my comments disappear immediately. Or at least not shown to me, so sorry for spamming in that case. If you want to know more you'll have to find out on your own sadly
I think it would be fair to assume that Piquet wouldn't have voluntarily dropped back from the lead to 3rd place at Kyalami in 83, so would have retained that championship anyway.
Essentially, this would be countback starting from wins. No matter how many drivers are awarded. So it works perfectly fine, and I think this could be an option to use in future. Wins are most important, but still every single position counts, as the countback might go to lower numbers as well. Especially with midfield/backmarkers, who'd try whatever crazy strategies to get a podium their rivals most likely won't get.
I disagree, the lottery quali was extremely dumb and unfair and his attempts to prevent the drivers to climb out of their car to make things more dramatic just dangerous.
Fantasric video. I had been thinking about compiling all of this myself, somewhat of a relief that someone has already done it. Where I disagree slightly is in that only the top three counts, in fact it is just the opposite , under this system every place counts and there is no such thing as outside the points, every finish counts even if it is 18th place.
Crazy to think, that just 1.5 years later, Verstappen has doubled his number of wins! At present (post Sao Paolo) he's at 17-2-0 ahead of Perez with 2-4-2, Sainz with 1-0-2, Norris with 0-6-1 and Alonso with 0-3-4.
Quick thought (correct me if i'm getting something wrong).....why are Fangio, Ascari, Brooks and Farina on the list of the 60's overall medals? None of them were active anymore or only on non-championship races. Ascari wasn't even alive anymore.
Slightly self-correcting: could make sense if it's the medals overall since the start of the championship, though it felt like it would be per decade at first. My bad if i read past it.
In 2010 I think Webber would have won, since Red Bull would use team orders in Brazil to let Webber past Vettel and ensure one of their drivers went into Abu Dhabi with the lead in the championship.
In 1990, the pole was NEVER moved! Pole had been on that side in 87, 88, 89 and 90! Senna had the two previous poles at Suzuka in 88 and 89 and suffered with bad starts and didn't want a bad start again there on the dirty side of the track. After qualifying on pole in 1990 Senna requested the pole to be moved as it was on the dirty side of the track, the side it had ALWAYS been on. The stewards granted this, but Balestre overturned the decision on the basis, The side pole was on was the same side as the 3 previous races there and Senna only complained because he was on pole, if he was starting P2 he would not have complained. For 1991 the side of pole was changed before the even started
The most "fair" system i think is the 1st - 10p , 2nd - 9p , 3rd - 8p , 4th - 7p , 5th - 6p , 6th - 5p , 7th - 4p , 8th - 3p , 9th - 2p , 10th - 1p for the drivers And for the teams do it like motogp I will explain...lets say as the current F1 teams , lets say in the first GP of the season Hamilton finish 1st Leclerc 2nd Russel 3rd Verstapen 4th Perez 5th Sainz 6th then Norris Alonso Vettell Ricciardo Bottas Gasly Stroll Ocon Tsunoda Zhou Latifi Schumacher Stroll Magnusen so Merc has 10p Ferrari 9p RB 8p Mclaren 7p Alpine 6p Aston Martin 5p Alfa Romeo 4p Alpha Tauri 3p Williams 2p and Haas 1p I believe this would be a really fair system both for driver and teams championships
I mean Hamilton does technically win 2021 as well because Abu Dhabi and Belgium were both farcical wins for Verstappen Belgium shouldn’t have counted because they didn’t race and Abu Dhabi should have been given to Hamilton
What do you mean 'isnt even on this list' He's literally on the list in 16th place (42:15) I get your point, it feels weird to have him behind Damon just because of one win, but that's what thos system does and that's literally what the video was supposed to show. And Kimi is on the list
Now that you’ve done all championships with the modern points system and the medals system, maybe you could do one where it’s all championships with the 1950 points system, or maybe double points at each finale
I actually did the championships with the 1950s point system. It's Incredibly Boring. Almost nothing changed! Though I think Peter could make it more interesting than I can lol
So, in terms of an impressive amount of Championships, we have: - Schumacher, Hamilton (7) - Fangio, Prost (5) - Clark, Senna, Vettel (4) - Brabham, Stewart, Mansell (3) Quite a difference, with e.g. Lauda and Piquet missing completely as well as Prost, Senna and Mansell doing much better.
Great effort on making this video. thumbs up This medal system puts weight on race results more than season results which I think is fairer than the actual system. Very interesting
They should've made a medal for every race but the golds weigh the same, the silvers weigh the same, and the bronze weigh the same. At the end of the season they'd weigh them all and whoever weighed the most won.
I actually would really like f1 to do it that way. Trophies would still be handed out. But it would be cool to try this method just to see how it would work. As an experiment
Somebody correct me on that, but the 1990 Senna "reason" about the pole being moved gets incorrectly repeated all the time: what actually happened was that the pole was NOT moved, and that irked him. "Ayrton Senna qualified on pole, but was unhappy with the dirty side of the track it was situated on, arguing that pole should always be on the racing line. He and Gerhard Berger then went to the Japanese stewards, to request a change of position of pole to the cleaner left side of the track."
Naw, look up for example "1988 Japanese GP Rd 15/16". You can see the pole is on the right there, too. It's always been there. It's the dirty side, yes, but it's also the inside line. There's a few cases like that for starting grids.
I was going to point this out. Pole was not changed at all, it had been there last 2 years. People like to believe what suits them but Senna was out of order even suggesting it. No other driver before or since has had the temerity to try that.
actual kinda works tbh, the same guy won a lot. but it's more likely that someone sucky can get lucky and get in like the top 8 or w/e. if there was like money going down to 8th or something, it'd really encourage backmarkers and such to stick in there. also encourages weird ideas (and cheating) that might win you a race or two, and that makes for good viewing.
Hi, great video! I love these "What if Formula 1 had used xy point system" projects. I'm currently working on similar project which shows how would be championships changed if points were awarded for qualis rather than races. I have done 1950-2011 seasons so far and I think it would be great idea for future's video, so if you want the point tables which I have all saved, feel free to contact me. There are many very interesting changes.
If we're not counting sprint races for 2021 then why count Spa? Spa 2021 was an absolute farcical race that gifted Max a 1st place podium. Remove Spa and Hamilton is/was level with Max on Gold 1st place finishes and Abu Dhabi was theft. Hamilton won Abu Dhabi.
If they always used a medal system, we never would have gotten the iconic Sonic The Hedgehog trophy from 1993
how the fuck is this real I just googled it.
Lol. to me tho, If Bernie's suggestion got implemented. They would still give out trophies. So in effect it would really be a 'trophy' system.
@@JDT-Loadsamoney easy answer the race was sponsored by Sega...ah the good old days when Sega was relevant.
@@JDT-Loadsamoney Ok so Sega wanted their brand to go so much farther, so they sponsored Williams and the European GP, now renamed to the Sega European GP. That is why a Sonic trophy exists
@@BDSFormula1 I love the lengths sega and nintendo went to when trying to beat the other, why isn’t this talked about more often
Points are scored on sundays, but what if it wasn’t the case? What if F1 was all about qualifying? How would the standings from 1950 to 2021 look based only on qualify results?
I think the 50s/60s would be the most affected due to reliability issues during races
I actually have an Excel with this
@@_out Me too, it was very interesting to do
Jarno Trulli entered the chat
@@PEPSIMaxMusic outperformed every teammate in quali
@Ben Was the quali GOAT. And he lead a race in a Porst!
The interesting implicit consequence of this alternative-F1-universe is that, well, F1 has become a quasi-endurance sport. That's why nothing much changes from the 90's on, I'd say - the best teams tend to be the most reliable, too. But in this alternative universe, everybody knows anything but a victory counts for basically nothing. Building fast but unreliable cars would be a real strategy (one I suspect Newey would absolutely love), and I suspect that at least for a time we'd get some massive changes due to changed development strategies before safety concerns, cost concerns, or just the sheer madness of cars blowing up left and right would incentivize regulators to step in and change something.
Most Underrated f1 youtuber. The amount of work is amazing
I've been playing around with a lot of F1 stats recently, calculating the drivers and constructors standings for each year since 2015 (so far, I'm working backwards) but using all of the last 4 points systems (2019, 2010, 2003, 1991) to see what it would have changed, it's really interesting stuff. No changes in WDC yet but one of the most interesting changes I've come across is that if the 2019 system (same as 2010 but including fastest lap points) had been introduced a year earlier, Valtteri Bottas would have jumped from 5th to 3rd, as he had 6 fastest laps Vs Verstappens 2 and Raikonnens 1
I'm glad to read I was not only one doing that :D
You should try the actual IndyCar points system in which all driver gets points in every race. That would be interesting.
@ I did start playing around with a system where each position is a point (so 20 points for 1st down to 1 point for 20th) recently, hadn't considered doing the IndyCar one but I'll probably add that one too!
@ I just calculated the points for 2021 if they used the IndyCar points system. Lewis and Max end the season tied on 867 points 😂
In almost every alternative universe Massa wins in 2008
Love those videos! There are so many what if stories in Formula 1 legacy. Mad underrated channel!
So to sum it up, the medal system would have been great if your name is Clark or Mansell, but terrible if your name is Piquet or Rosberg.
What an incredible video, I love playing around with stats like this and the amount of work that went into this must have been massive.
Mate your videos are crazy, the time it must have taken you to do this!
Your passion for F1 is evident, keep it up because your videos are very interesting and nice to watch.
Awesome work. I wish something that is just absurd, what if drivers never retired from a race and kept their position to the end of race. On another side, the medal system gives a more fight and glory for the 1st place, instead of the podium as it is right now. Maybe things could be spiced up if 3 silver medals counted as gold one, and 3 bronce ones as a silver. And create some other "medals" up to 5th position. Constructors championship should remain the same, using points, but just 1 point difference from 1st to next (10, 9,8,7, etc) .
i really like your alterative history videos.
Hope to see even more ;)
The good timeline (Nelson Piquet not winning a single championship)
why do you hate piquet? i think he was pretty good, deserved the wins he got imo. though im not an expert on f1 in that era
@@doghat1619 I don’t like racists
@@alexfirefly1956 hes racist?
@@doghat1619 For some reason my answers aren't shown anymore
@@doghat1619 Yeah, no matter what I try my comments disappear immediately. Or at least not shown to me, so sorry for spamming in that case. If you want to know more you'll have to find out on your own sadly
You just don't stop delivering, such a good video!
I think it would be fair to assume that Piquet wouldn't have voluntarily dropped back from the lead to 3rd place at Kyalami in 83, so would have retained that championship anyway.
Essentially, this would be countback starting from wins. No matter how many drivers are awarded. So it works perfectly fine, and I think this could be an option to use in future. Wins are most important, but still every single position counts, as the countback might go to lower numbers as well. Especially with midfield/backmarkers, who'd try whatever crazy strategies to get a podium their rivals most likely won't get.
Perhaps Bernie Ecclestone's worst idea
I disagree, the lottery quali was extremely dumb and unfair and his attempts to prevent the drivers to climb out of their car to make things more dramatic just dangerous.
Worse than taking a bullet for Putin?
@@sophieewohaa let's stick to F1, shall we…?
@@nichtarthur I would say his sprinklers idea was even worse lol
Fantasric video. I had been thinking about compiling all of this myself, somewhat of a relief that someone has already done it. Where I disagree slightly is in that only the top three counts, in fact it is just the opposite , under this system every place counts and there is no such thing as outside the points, every finish counts even if it is 18th place.
"John Surtees loses his title" might as well be the the title of the alternate history points videos playlist.
2022 End Of Season Medals Tally
1.Max Verstappen (15, 1, 1) (Wins Title 2 Rounds Earlier in Italy)
2.Charles Leclerc (3, 5, 3)
3.Sergio Perez (2, 7, 2)
4.Carlos Sainz (1, 3, 5)
5.George Russell (1, 1, 6)
6.Lewis Hamilton (0, 5, 4)
7.Lando Norris (0, 0, 1)
8.Esteban Ocon (0, 0, 0) (4th x1)
9.Fernando Alonso (0, 0, 0) (5th x3)
10.Valtteri Bottas (0, 0, 0) (5th x1, 6th x2)
2023 End of Season Tally
1. Max Verstappen (19, 2, 0) (Wins Title 3 Rounds Earlier in Italy)
2. Sergio Perez (2, 4, 3)
3. Carlos Sainz (1, 0, 2)
4. Lando Norris (0, 6, 1)
5. Fernando Alonso (0, 3, 5)
6. Charles Leclerc (0, 3, 3) (4th x4)
7. Lewis Hamilton (0, 3, 3) (4th x3)
8. Oscar Piastri (0, 1, 1)
9. George Russell (0, 0, 2)
10. Pierre Gasly (0, 0, 1)
Crazy to think, that just 1.5 years later, Verstappen has doubled his number of wins! At present (post Sao Paolo) he's at 17-2-0 ahead of Perez with 2-4-2, Sainz with 1-0-2, Norris with 0-6-1 and Alonso with 0-3-4.
The 1955 British Grand Prix was held at Aintree, not Silverstone
Aintree also hosted the race in 1957, 1959 and 1961
It's crazy how all Hamilton's 7 titles would be done consecutively
My boi Giacomelli 183th
I watched this video in December 2023 and Max is now 3rd in all time wins. He was only 9th after Austria 2002!
Quick thought (correct me if i'm getting something wrong).....why are Fangio, Ascari, Brooks and Farina on the list of the 60's overall medals? None of them were active anymore or only on non-championship races. Ascari wasn't even alive anymore.
Slightly self-correcting: could make sense if it's the medals overall since the start of the championship, though it felt like it would be per decade at first. My bad if i read past it.
In 2010 I think Webber would have won, since Red Bull would use team orders in Brazil to let Webber past Vettel and ensure one of their drivers went into Abu Dhabi with the lead in the championship.
In 1990, the pole was NEVER moved! Pole had been on that side in 87, 88, 89 and 90!
Senna had the two previous poles at Suzuka in 88 and 89 and suffered with bad starts and didn't want a bad start again there on the dirty side of the track.
After qualifying on pole in 1990 Senna requested the pole to be moved as it was on the dirty side of the track, the side it had ALWAYS been on.
The stewards granted this, but Balestre overturned the decision on the basis, The side pole was on was the same side as the 3 previous races there and Senna only complained because he was on pole, if he was starting P2 he would not have complained.
For 1991 the side of pole was changed before the even started
So what you’re saying is that it was moved, then moved back.
Wasn't the current system in place since 2010?
Fastest lap point came in 2019
@@PeterBrookF1 Ah I thought that.. Yeah technically that's a change to the rules
A stupid suggestion from Bernie. It’s only saving grace was that Nelson (racist) Piquet would not have been World Champion.
The most "fair" system i think is the 1st - 10p , 2nd - 9p , 3rd - 8p , 4th - 7p , 5th - 6p , 6th - 5p , 7th - 4p , 8th - 3p , 9th - 2p , 10th - 1p for the drivers
And for the teams do it like motogp
I will explain...lets say as the current F1 teams , lets say in the first GP of the season Hamilton finish 1st Leclerc 2nd Russel 3rd Verstapen 4th Perez 5th Sainz 6th then Norris Alonso Vettell Ricciardo Bottas Gasly Stroll Ocon Tsunoda Zhou Latifi Schumacher Stroll Magnusen so Merc has 10p Ferrari 9p RB 8p Mclaren 7p Alpine 6p Aston Martin 5p Alfa Romeo 4p Alpha Tauri 3p Williams 2p and Haas 1p
I believe this would be a really fair system both for driver and teams championships
15:10
I mean Hamilton does technically win 2021 as well because Abu Dhabi and Belgium were both farcical wins for Verstappen Belgium shouldn’t have counted because they didn’t race and Abu Dhabi should have been given to Hamilton
incorrect as whilst spa seemed unfair it was within the rules so nothing wrong was actually done, so max would still win
Cry all you want Max won the title fair and square
Medal system in 2021 would mean Lewis would have won. Spa wasn’t a race so that’s 9-8 wins to max then of course Abu Dhabi so that’s 9-8 Lewis.
No. he wouldn't
This is stupid for example Kimi has like 110 total medals and Damon Hill has like 30
But cuz Kimi has 1-2 wins less he isnt even on this list
What do you mean 'isnt even on this list' He's literally on the list in 16th place (42:15)
I get your point, it feels weird to have him behind Damon just because of one win, but that's what thos system does and that's literally what the video was supposed to show. And Kimi is on the list
Now that you’ve done all championships with the modern points system and the medals system, maybe you could do one where it’s all championships with the 1950 points system, or maybe double points at each finale
I actually did the championships with the 1950s point system. It's Incredibly Boring. Almost nothing changed! Though I think Peter could make it more interesting than I can lol
So, in terms of an impressive amount of Championships, we have:
- Schumacher, Hamilton (7)
- Fangio, Prost (5)
- Clark, Senna, Vettel (4)
- Brabham, Stewart, Mansell (3)
Quite a difference, with e.g. Lauda and Piquet missing completely as well as Prost, Senna and Mansell doing much better.
Crucially, the statistic G.O.A.Ts are the same
Interesting that all 3 of Piquet's titles are taken away too
Senna 3, 1988, 1990, 1991
Video idea: What if F1 used other series' points system (Indycar, MotoGP, Nascar,...)
Great effort on making this video. thumbs up
This medal system puts weight on race results more than season results which I think is fairer than the actual system. Very interesting
It's funny how the 80's points system was the worst for Prost, winning more championship with both, the Medal and the modern system
And also with the 2003-2009 system
This show how boring the last decade has been in terms in frontruners.
23:55 it wasnt MOVED to the dirty side, it had been there since the track started hosting f1. Senna was unhappy that it WASNT MOVED to the clean side.
This sure has taken an insane amount of work!! Great video, really fun concept, and great commentary! Xx
39:50
Made me laugh more than it should have
They should've made a medal for every race but the golds weigh the same, the silvers weigh the same, and the bronze weigh the same. At the end of the season they'd weigh them all and whoever weighed the most won.
that's just points again, but only for the top 3 each race.
The medals system values wins over consistency. Guess it depends what your preference is.
It’s crazy how many of them would have won either way
If these videos prove one thing, it's that Alain Prost was a lot better than people generally give him credit
I actually would really like f1 to do it that way. Trophies would still be handed out. But it would be cool to try this method just to see how it would work. As an experiment
Somebody correct me on that, but the 1990 Senna "reason" about the pole being moved gets incorrectly repeated all the time: what actually happened was that the pole was NOT moved, and that irked him.
"Ayrton Senna qualified on pole, but was unhappy with the dirty side of the track it was situated on, arguing that pole should always be on the racing line. He and Gerhard Berger then went to the Japanese stewards, to request a change of position of pole to the cleaner left side of the track."
It was moved after he got pole and he wanted it to be changed back. Thats how I remember it
Naw, look up for example "1988 Japanese GP Rd 15/16". You can see the pole is on the right there, too. It's always been there. It's the dirty side, yes, but it's also the inside line. There's a few cases like that for starting grids.
I was going to point this out. Pole was not changed at all, it had been there last 2 years. People like to believe what suits them but Senna was out of order even suggesting it. No other driver before or since has had the temerity to try that.
This was an incredibly fascinating experiment I love it
Schumacher is and always will be the king
46 minute video... you are crazy my friend, love it
Shit, making this video must have taken quite some time! Incredible work!
actual kinda works tbh, the same guy won a lot. but it's more likely that someone sucky can get lucky and get in like the top 8 or w/e. if there was like money going down to 8th or something, it'd really encourage backmarkers and such to stick in there. also encourages weird ideas (and cheating) that might win you a race or two, and that makes for good viewing.
Peter brooks f1 youtube channel my beloved
F for Mauri Rose
Nice idea and video. Already got some (more) Traffic from my banner @ the end of my video's?
Make a golf system lowest score wins
kimi STILL wins......
Ofc this is not necessarily what wouldve happened in those years. As the drivers raced with a different points system in mind
Hi, great video! I love these "What if Formula 1 had used xy point system" projects. I'm currently working on similar project which shows how would be championships changed if points were awarded for qualis rather than races. I have done 1950-2011 seasons so far and I think it would be great idea for future's video, so if you want the point tables which I have all saved, feel free to contact me. There are many very interesting changes.
Came here after the Australian gp podium where Carlos sainz received a medal
Factual data unsurprisingly shows Lewis Hamilton is the true
If we're not counting sprint races for 2021 then why count Spa? Spa 2021 was an absolute farcical race that gifted Max a 1st place podium. Remove Spa and Hamilton is/was level with Max on Gold 1st place finishes and Abu Dhabi was theft. Hamilton won Abu Dhabi.