How does anyone understand this? I just finished my master's degree in Computer Science, but this explanation is way too technical without visual/practical examples. I suggest you add more concrete examples instead of angular drawings. I really liked some of your other videos that are easier to follow, keep up the good work. It is appreciated!
Many thanks. As a TT lover who uses his body badly, I have long needed people knowledgeable about biomechanics to try to explain how to improve any part of it. Like the guy with the Master’s degree, I only got part of it (the commentary was far too fast to absorb easily). But I am grateful that you try to share this knowledge.
I'm having trouble understanding this concept. The idea "aim the ball with the elbow" is quite interesting. But how a 3D figure like a cone relates to my forearm I am lost ... any help?
@@DESANGGG Ok. good, now I have the cone :-) But what does that have to do with a FH stroke? I'm not drawing circles with my hand when I loop the FH ball?! So how does this cone factor in in the FH movement?
@@mihai8555 A lot, as mentioned it helps with synchronization of the stroke. look at section at 4:24 bottom right. If you do rotation in accordance to trajectory of incoming ball you get very precise timing and consistency in every loop. If you do not use circular motion during FH looping then start working on it. Guidance of this cone is then crucial. This concept is not easy to grasp and requires a lot of imagination. Please, study loop of Ma Long and compare it to this concept. Focus on elbow close to body and forearm rotation. Cone is moving, but if elbow would be fixed you would see it very clearly. This combined with energy focusing lesson is real secret to Ma Longs loop.
It would be better to specify what in the picture is the forearm, what is the shoulder, what is the playing side of the racket, in which direction the movement goes, what is what in the picture.....?
sorry - i cant understand this. I'm trying ... but it isn't clicking or coming togetherin my brain. I think I remebr you comment below says "elbow is pivot point and circular motion of hand draws a CONE shape between elbow and cirular motion of hand". I can understand creating that shape. But I can't get past just seeing that shape. How to piece it all together???
Hi Tim, I will try to do my best. Firstly you need to focus and find three things in the arm movement of Ma Long. Look at any training video of him (best loop In the world for exactly those reasons) and you will see it after this post. We know his FH loop by heart, so it is not hard to describe it here :) Ready? 1) So, easiest to find is the locking phase, where he fixes his elbow to his right hip (paddle alligned with right knee). You will notice that forearm movement, to the point just before contact with the ball (exactly to the point 2 - active phase) , draw half of the circle/cone. this is the part that is illustrated in the video (under whole horizontal dashed line at 3:45). 2) Start of active phase is noticable if you focus on the mutual position of elbow and wrist after backswing. At some point you will see that wrist advances forward (from lagging position). You can visualized it as crossing this horizontal line in video (from bottom-up). Imagine end line of the table going trough his elbow, this crossing will be more apparent. 3) After he finishes the stroke with snapping motion his hand (in front of his head) and elbow creates small glitch (paddle goes a little bit back, why?), because he restarts the cycle by retracting elbow to drag the CONE down and starts this cone drawing again. This is all very harmonic (circular) and eliminates mistakes if timed properly to the trajectory of incoming ball. Problem is in full stroke imagination, because if the elbow is fixed you can see this part of the cone easily. But because there are also other movements of the body involved, this reseting and active phase phase is not easy to spot. We tried to draw all of this in the second image, but sure its hard to imagine full composition of the movement from 2D shadow image. Now you should be able to understand it better. Listen to the every word in the video very carefully. Information is condensed, but its there. Once you will see these three points you will imagine whole CONE moving in the picture (by dragging it with upper part of arm - ROD). This technique is actually hard, but pradoxically very intuitive after some studying. No linear movement involved, only rotations. TT is circular or rather elliptical sport. Hopefully it helps you understand it little bit better. Have a nice day :)
@@DESANGGG Thank you so very much for the explanations. I think I do understand more clearer now. I think i was looking at the diagrams too literally and trying to apply a real life circular motion around the circumference of the cone(paddle/hand). Instead the diagrams are only meant to be a tool for describing whats going on. (explaining to use more of an arc/ellipital motion, instead of a straight/linear motion.
Thanks for the Videos. It really helping for our TT Practice. 'Cone on the rod' approach is helping in looping against backspin. I have a question, Can we use the cone on the rod technique for Forehand topspin against block? when I tried most of the ball is going out of the table. Thanks in advance.
Hi Atrix, note that this concept is used for proper timimng and synchronization of multiple movements of body parts. For the question you asked, please look more at the concept of EVIL TWIN. During every shot, you need to be aware of the part of the ball you are contacting, given the rotation of the ball. Easy aid is (top rotation - upper half of the ball, downspin - lower half of the ball). now, during hitting the are 3 key factors involved. 1) direction of the energy your hand/body is producing. 2) direction of the ball redirected by angle of your racket. 3) direction of the spinny ball after collision with your bat rubber. Idea to get safe shot on the table is to add those three directions mentally, so that resultant direction is going through the net. then you calibrate those angles and add your own spin (brushing) to get the ball over the net. It is easier/safer to get ball over the net, than to force the ball down by rotation once you shoot it up. I hope it makes sense.
Tried this today; has definitely improved consistency in my forehand. Thank you! Could you be able to do one also for backhand? I tried to apply the same concept for backhand, but it seems like there are more 'parts' involved (e.g. elbow, forearm, wrist) and the stroke is different
You are welcome, Actually, for the backhand - the concept stays the same, but the stroke dynamics is little bit different. Also your body feels it little bit wierd when performing backhand. because there is much less body rotation you need to use snap of your forearm little bit more to redirect energy the desired direction. You are also starting from right aiming to the left. not another way around. this is counterintuitive. Helper is: You are aiming at the left net stand with your elbow (pushing your foream in straight line - similar to forehand feeling) at the begining of active phase, even if you play cross shots. cone rotation is in reversed direction. also notice, that without proper grip (HPL) it is hard to focus on alignment of your thumb with the contact point on the ball durig shots. Your wrist will start to work naturally for the shot if you focus on your thumb alignment. We will probably do lesson or analysis on this topic later, we just wanted to demonstrate this concept in the first place.
@@DESANGGG So let me clarify just so that I'm understanding correctly: Are we bringing the elbow inward and forward, while rotating the forearm open to contact the ball? So before active phase, is the elbow behind the ball and to the right of the ball, while the forearm is parallel with the body?
yes, it can be stated this way. only forearm is approaching the ball under some angle, not parallel to the body. I would say something like 30-45 degrees with the line of your shoulders.
@@DESANGGG Thank you so much! This makes so much sense now. Now I feel the momentum of the elbow into my shots (which also is supplemented with legs/body). It also reflects how most Chinese national team players do their backhand now that I'm watching how they do it and comparing it to what you advise. You have great knowledge! Do you mind me asking is your TT background?
Thank you. As everything in life, it is about devotion. It is all about hard work we put into studies. We have done hard work for the others. Also countless months of analysis, trying different things, finding what work a what not and how it all feels and lot of practice (shadow training, trials and errors, etc.). Comparison with chinese and other players to test some hypotheses. This is where all the knowledge comes from. we are not super elite players. we just love the sport more than everything and we have very analytical mindset and technical background from university and post gradual studies. even as control system engineers it took us so many years to decompose the game and understand all these details and create those concepts that can be transfered and learned as the pieces of puzzle. we just see things differently than many other people, this as advantage sometimes. this is also barier in many cases, we are aware of it. our primary goal was to understand chinese TT on very deep level. Now we are almost 40 so we decided to share some of our knowledge with other enthusiasts. and this is bacically reason for NEW LEVEL TT. we will try to help as best as we can to everyone who asks for it. we are happy if your level rise up also thanks to our channel. wishing you a lot of success M N :)
I concur that the perpendicular force of the partial impulse force of the inertial rotation is effective in imparting the motor functional force of the generated acceleration path, but on the point of parallel amplitude tangential velocity of linear movement, I must say that it is the curvilinear orthogonal characteristics of rotational movement of the axis of rotation of accumulated mass of the rotation of the bio-mechanical closed kinetic movement.
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How does anyone understand this? I just finished my master's degree in Computer Science, but this explanation is way too technical without visual/practical examples. I suggest you add more concrete examples instead of angular drawings. I really liked some of your other videos that are easier to follow, keep up the good work. It is appreciated!
Many thanks. As a TT lover who uses his body badly, I have long needed people knowledgeable about biomechanics to try to explain how to improve any part of it.
Like the guy with the Master’s degree, I only got part of it (the commentary was far too fast to absorb easily).
But I am grateful that you try to share this knowledge.
I'm having trouble understanding this concept. The idea "aim the ball with the elbow" is quite interesting. But how a 3D figure like a cone relates to my forearm I am lost ... any help?
Sure Mi, imagine and draw a circle in front of you with your hand. If elbow is center of rotation, shape it creates is a cone.
@@DESANGGG Ok. good, now I have the cone :-) But what does that have to do with a FH stroke? I'm not drawing circles with my hand when I loop the FH ball?! So how does this cone factor in in the FH movement?
@@mihai8555 A lot, as mentioned it helps with synchronization of the stroke. look at section at 4:24 bottom right. If you do rotation in accordance to trajectory of incoming ball you get very precise timing and consistency in every loop. If you do not use circular motion during FH looping then start working on it. Guidance of this cone is then crucial. This concept is not easy to grasp and requires a lot of imagination. Please, study loop of Ma Long and compare it to this concept. Focus on elbow close to body and forearm rotation. Cone is moving, but if elbow would be fixed you would see it very clearly. This combined with energy focusing lesson is real secret to Ma Longs loop.
Like Mi, I struggle to visualise this. Is there another way to describe this more simply? A dummy’s guide!
It would be better to specify what in the picture is the forearm, what is the shoulder, what is the playing side of the racket, in which direction the movement goes, what is what in the picture.....?
sorry - i cant understand this. I'm trying ... but it isn't clicking or coming togetherin my brain. I think I remebr you comment below says "elbow is pivot point and circular motion of hand draws a CONE shape between elbow and cirular motion of hand". I can understand creating that shape. But I can't get past just seeing that shape. How to piece it all together???
Hi Tim, I will try to do my best. Firstly you need to focus and find three things in the arm movement of Ma Long. Look at any training video of him (best loop In the world for exactly those reasons) and you will see it after this post. We know his FH loop by heart, so it is not hard to describe it here :) Ready?
1) So, easiest to find is the locking phase, where he fixes his elbow to his right hip (paddle alligned with right knee). You will notice that forearm movement, to the point just before contact with the ball (exactly to the point 2 - active phase) , draw half of the circle/cone. this is the part that is illustrated in the video (under whole horizontal dashed line at 3:45).
2) Start of active phase is noticable if you focus on the mutual position of elbow and wrist after backswing. At some point you will see that wrist advances forward (from lagging position). You can visualized it as crossing this horizontal line in video (from bottom-up). Imagine end line of the table going trough his elbow, this crossing will be more apparent.
3) After he finishes the stroke with snapping motion his hand (in front of his head) and elbow creates small glitch (paddle goes a little bit back, why?), because he restarts the cycle by retracting elbow to drag the CONE down and starts this cone drawing again.
This is all very harmonic (circular) and eliminates mistakes if timed properly to the trajectory of incoming ball.
Problem is in full stroke imagination, because if the elbow is fixed you can see this part of the cone easily. But because there are also other movements of the body involved, this reseting and active phase phase is not easy to spot. We tried to draw all of this in the second image, but sure its hard to imagine full composition of the movement from 2D shadow image. Now you should be able to understand it better. Listen to the every word in the video very carefully. Information is condensed, but its there.
Once you will see these three points you will imagine whole CONE moving in the picture (by dragging it with upper part of arm - ROD).
This technique is actually hard, but pradoxically very intuitive after some studying. No linear movement involved, only rotations. TT is circular or rather elliptical sport.
Hopefully it helps you understand it little bit better.
Have a nice day :)
@@DESANGGG Thank you so very much for the explanations. I think I do understand more clearer now. I think i was looking at the diagrams too literally and trying to apply a real life circular motion around the circumference of the cone(paddle/hand). Instead the diagrams are only meant to be a tool for describing whats going on. (explaining to use more of an arc/ellipital motion, instead of a straight/linear motion.
@@DESANGGG.Thanks
Your explanation here is very helpful in understanding the video.
Thanks for the Videos. It really helping for our TT Practice.
'Cone on the rod' approach is helping in looping against backspin.
I have a question, Can we use the cone on the rod technique for Forehand topspin against block? when I tried most of the ball is going out of the table.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Atrix, note that this concept is used for proper timimng and synchronization of multiple movements of body parts.
For the question you asked, please look more at the concept of EVIL TWIN. During every shot, you need to be aware of the part of the ball you are contacting, given the rotation of the ball.
Easy aid is (top rotation - upper half of the ball, downspin - lower half of the ball). now, during hitting the are 3 key factors involved. 1) direction of the energy your hand/body is producing. 2) direction of the ball redirected by angle of your racket. 3) direction of the spinny ball after collision with your bat rubber.
Idea to get safe shot on the table is to add those three directions mentally, so that resultant direction is going through the net. then you calibrate those angles and add your own spin (brushing) to get the ball over the net. It is easier/safer to get ball over the net, than to force the ball down by rotation once you shoot it up. I hope it makes sense.
@@DESANGGG Thank you New Level TT. This helps a lot. 🙂
Tried this today; has definitely improved consistency in my forehand. Thank you!
Could you be able to do one also for backhand? I tried to apply the same concept for backhand, but it seems like there are more 'parts' involved (e.g. elbow, forearm, wrist) and the stroke is different
You are welcome,
Actually, for the backhand - the concept stays the same, but the stroke dynamics is little bit different. Also your body feels it little bit wierd when performing backhand. because there is much less body rotation you need to use snap of your forearm little bit more to redirect energy the desired direction. You are also starting from right aiming to the left. not another way around. this is counterintuitive.
Helper is: You are aiming at the left net stand with your elbow (pushing your foream in straight line - similar to forehand feeling) at the begining of active phase, even if you play cross shots. cone rotation is in reversed direction.
also notice, that without proper grip (HPL) it is hard to focus on alignment of your thumb with the contact point on the ball durig shots. Your wrist will start to work naturally for the shot if you focus on your thumb alignment.
We will probably do lesson or analysis on this topic later, we just wanted to demonstrate this concept in the first place.
@@DESANGGG So let me clarify just so that I'm understanding correctly:
Are we bringing the elbow inward and forward, while rotating the forearm open to contact the ball? So before active phase, is the elbow behind the ball and to the right of the ball, while the forearm is parallel with the body?
yes, it can be stated this way. only forearm is approaching the ball under some angle, not parallel to the body. I would say something like 30-45 degrees with the line of your shoulders.
@@DESANGGG Thank you so much! This makes so much sense now. Now I feel the momentum of the elbow into my shots (which also is supplemented with legs/body). It also reflects how most Chinese national team players do their backhand now that I'm watching how they do it and comparing it to what you advise.
You have great knowledge! Do you mind me asking is your TT background?
Thank you.
As everything in life, it is about devotion. It is all about hard work we put into studies. We have done hard work for the others. Also countless months of analysis, trying different things, finding what work a what not and how it all feels and lot of practice (shadow training, trials and errors, etc.). Comparison with chinese and other players to test some hypotheses. This is where all the knowledge comes from. we are not super elite players. we just love the sport more than everything and we have very analytical mindset and technical background from university and post gradual studies. even as control system engineers it took us so many years to decompose the game and understand all these details and create those concepts that can be transfered and learned as the pieces of puzzle. we just see things differently than many other people, this as advantage sometimes. this is also barier in many cases, we are aware of it. our primary goal was to understand chinese TT on very deep level. Now we are almost 40 so we decided to share some of our knowledge with other enthusiasts. and this is bacically reason for NEW LEVEL TT. we will try to help as best as we can to everyone who asks for it. we are happy if your level rise up also thanks to our channel. wishing you a lot of success M N :)
I concur that the perpendicular force of the partial impulse force of the inertial rotation is effective in imparting the motor functional force of the generated acceleration path, but on the point of parallel amplitude tangential velocity of linear movement, I must say that it is the curvilinear orthogonal characteristics of rotational movement of the axis of rotation of accumulated mass of the rotation of the bio-mechanical closed kinetic movement.
i get it :) ❤❤❤❤
Can you explain me simple pls?
When's your next video coming out 😐
Hopefuly, by end of the week. I had some health issues. Also work duties were growing. Videos are created in free time.
@@DESANGGG Thank you for everything! Looking forward. All the best to you
@@DESANGGG Thank you for these wonderful videos. Take good care of your health!
@@DESANGGG thanks but please add more explanation