I hate dual binding post on bookshelf speakers. For a bookshelf speaker there is no reason to bi-wire or bi-amp them. unnecessary crap in the signal path.
I fully agree with that. It seems that the dual binding post is the same as in the larger Bronze 200 floorstanders - guess that they have chosen to use the same parts - keeping costs in check - makes sense, but indeed unnecessary for bookshelf speakers.
On these, I'd much rsther see a pair of high-quality, non steel, binding posts and lose those awful connector strips. We also need to stop using the term book shelf. Hardly anyone is going to listen to these placed on a bookshelf. They would sound horrible. Stand mount speakers they are. In my exoerience Biwire is nonesense, however Bi Amp can have sonic benefits, but its difficult to get the balance right, and you are unlikely to hear those benefits in low or mid fi products like these.
The Bronze series from Monitor Audio, is kind of a unicorn, I think. The Bronze, sound almost identical to its more expencive sibling (especially the bookshelves). I have the Bronze 100's as bedlayer speakers all the way in my cinema/ musicroom, and the sound absolutly stuning. The details are so clear, bass tight and punchy (yes, they are crossed to subs). The coherency in the sound is fantastic (probably due to the speakers beeing identical all the way). I find that they actually sound best closer too the walls (don't understand why). The soundstage actually open up more, closer to the wall, and the buble of sound surrounding me, is more present in that position (in stereo). I have a rather dampened/ treated room, and I gues that might have something to do with placment/ soundstage. 😊
I have HT rig, Denon S6700H AV AMP, used as a processor. all the 11 channels have Emotiva BasX A3/A4/A4 power amps on them, Speakers are Monitor Audio Gold C350 Centre (£500 on Ebay like new) Monitor Audio Bronze 500 L/R (£500 in a sale) Monitor Audio Bronze 100's side and rear Surrounds (I got both pairs for half price in a sale so £250 a pair), Bowers and Wilkins M-1's as front and rear heights. And two SVS PB1000 Active subs £450 each. Sounds awesome, immersion is just wow. I also listen to stereo music, via streaming from my laptop or wired Phono, the MA 500's just fill the room, and the soundstage and separation is as good as anything I have ever heard, in fact I had to keep checking to make sure the Centre speaker was not on lol. Im very happy with my set up, and think I could of spent 4 times or more the money for very little improvement. So im done for now on my purchasing journey, and just enjoying the Movies/Music. Glad you are enjoying yours as well. I think too many people are chasing a dream instead of just listening and having fun.
@@johnbancroft5242 You are on point when it comes to just enjoying what we have, and not chasing demons of perfection🤪 What would you say is the difference between 500's and 100's ? 😊 Do you find any sonic differences between the ribbon tweeter of the gold center, and the metaldome tweeter of the bronze? 😊
@@andreemilsen369 The tweeter in the C350 gold centre, is better quality than the Bronze tweeters, but in real life use they work well together, In Movies, and TV the centre does most of the heavy lifting, and the C350 just disappears as you watch the screen, and only occassionally does dialogue move from left to right, but if it moves from one actor to the other, how can you tell the sonic difference. as all voices are different. The main reason to get the C350 was it is 200 watt RMS and and 90bd sensitivity so matched the Bronze 500's, Sadly the Bronze centre is a little weedy. As I said before, I think I made a good choice. it works well to my ears. They stopped making the Gold C350. but the do make the Gold C250, and I would get that, if you want a good centre to match any MA towers. As for the 500's to 100's. the 500's just fill the room more, scale. and they can dig deep. for some people you might not need a subwoofer.
I saved up for quite a while to get the Silver 100s-for me it was a big purchase. But I really enjoy them, especially for rock and modern pop, which I think benefit from a rather impressive bass, given their size. Overall I think the monitor house sound is just plain and simple fun
My days of buying expensive speakers are over, but I have a couple pairs of large and expensive (in today's dollars) stereo pairs that I'm maintaining for the long haul that were both refreshed within the last 5 yrs. In more recent days, I have purchased a TV soundbar and sub for TV room, pairs of open and closed back headphones for various applications, and a pair of bookshelf speakers with stands for low spl nighttime use. I've been working with audio long enough that I usually have a fairly good idea of what I want apriori, so these days I research options of my target product, find out all I can, and order what I think I want online, making sure that if I was wrong, I can return the product. I have a fairly good success rate that way, and rarely have to deal with the hassle of returns, thankfully!
Yes, always good to have a few speaker setups so that you can pick which to listen to based on application or program material for maximum enjoyment👍😉.
Always loved Monitor Audio and i now own the Platinum 100 3G with Accuphase and Holo Audio electronics. Started off 15 odd years ago with the RX6 and the Rega Brio R amplifier. Since then i've tried other speakers from Focal and heard tons of different speakers over the years and have always loved their lively house sound.
I bought them as back surrounds for 400 Euros. Indeed great for the job, not as your mains, but when you’re on a tight budget they will do nice work as your mains.
Thanks for the review. I’ve seen several good reviews of those MAs. A great deal at $600 for the pair. I have a pair of SVS SB1000 Pros in my 2.2 music system. They are only about a foot wide and a foot deep so they fit into small spaces with a 12 inch woofer and they sound excellent. No port so I have them each in a corner close to the front and side walls without any sound issues. I got the pair of open-box for under $1,000 US for the pair so very affordable. SVS also has excellent customer service before, during and after the sale. Rock on!
In the last 2-4 yr, companies like Monitor, JBL, Polk, wharfdale have really upped their game in the 600-800 dollar range. There really are a bunch of fabulous speakers down in that price range. I repair equipment for several pawn shops and online resellers on the east coast. When I tear down speakers I can observe the equipment without all the window dressing. 1. Cabinet and bracing design are very important. 2. Cross over design and capacitor quality are also important. 3. How pressurized air is directed into a port is also important. 4. Tweeter quality is also important. All of these are observable when a speaker is open. I like what JBL, WD, Martin Logan do in a mid cost speaker. Sometimes I open up costly speakers from lesser known companies and I do not like what I see (or hear). So the correlation between price 500---->3,000 and sound quality isnt always accurate. SVS PB-2000 Pro is a good sub in a moderately sized footprint. Air management from cabinet to port is well controlled. Larger woofer size ( > 12") are not always good for music, particularly when pairing to bookshelf size front speakers. Total overkill.
My favorite "bass reflex" type speaker is a good passive radiator design. I'm not a big fan of ported cabinets either. My favorites are actually large acoustic suspension designs, if amplifier power and the physical space to enjoy them can be afforded.
I have a MA speaker from the series below the Bronze. It's still quite well built. Poly cone woofer but nicely vented, solid cabinet. 2nd order crossover. Still has a "CCAM" tweeter.
I love the HSU VTF2mk5 fir a sub. $690 USD plus shipping. It has a 1 adjustment which I used to tuen to the room. It has 2 ports of different sizes which give it 4 tunings. And, it extends below 20hz. Performance for the price is excellent.
I have Harbeth P3ESR in my small room without acoustic treatment but with a table, close to windows and corners I use REL T9x sub but smaller REL will be great choice too I use Aurender N150 + Chord TT2 + Chord TToby on the desk But if I move Harbeth P3ESR to my dedicated music room with better electronics (Aurender N200 + Bricasti M1 + McIntosh C2700 + McIntosh 462) I can hear quite a lot of a difference (unlike other bookshelf I tried) This is why I bought Harbeth P3ESR - they have potential and in (very) certain cases overperform my primary Sonus Faber Amati
So glad finally someone has made a comparison with Harbeth. I've been impressed by Harbeth's sound at audio shows but couldn't justify their high price tags. Hope there's more options that can match its performance. Look forward to your next review of mini monitors.
How do I choose? When I lived in the city, I listened first, then read reviews. Now I live 7 hrs from the nearest major city that would have any substantial choices. Thank god, before I moved here, that decision was made. Now I would have to rely on reviewers. There are smaller centres that are closer, 2 to 3 hrs drive, but are limited with what they carry. What they do carry though, are surprisingly capable products, just not a lot of choices. I personally own Hyperion 968 and also Gallo Ref 3, 2nd gen..
I prefer to use dual subs with my music listening. Currently I have 2 RSL 12S subwoofers and use a Sublime Acoustics K235 crossover or my SPL Crossover to dial them in. I find the subs fill in what is lost with just using speakers by themselves. I have owned more expensive subs and th RSL match the performance or beat it in my opinion at far less money. This hobby is great so do what you want not what other suggest. Listen to others yet do what you prefer with your ears! Good video as always. Still waiting on the Schiit Yggdrasil MIB and LAiV Harmony comparison lol!!!!
@@PassionforSound I am chomping at the bit! Lol truly want to know how those two compare. I have seen it compare and pull ahead of the top Denefrips. Respect your review and opinion, nice to here several before Inpull the trigger on one.
I'd recommend a REL T0 for a small and unobtrusive yet very effective subwoofer -- but advise using its high-level input using the supplied Speakon connector. With Class D amps, best to connect the black wire to the ground screw of the amp, or if one isn't supplied, to one of the casing screws rather than the left negative speaker terminal. At £449 new, not sure if it'd be considered "affordable" though.
Lachlan, I have the Silver 50 7g which is being used in a near field application. They are terrific for many of the reasons you noted. I paired them with the REL TX5 sub which helped round out the low end. I also switched DACs from the RMA to the Bifrost 264. The latter has more low mid grip which helped as well. Cheers.
Your descriptions remind me of my Monitor Audio RS6 silver towers, a very old model that has served me well - Clear and fun with good tonality, very quick, but keep them away from the wall. I found replacing the metal plates that connect the binding posts with my own wire connections made sounded slightly better.
@@CarlVanDoren61 Lachlan said he was looking to add an affordable subfoower. Two REL Acoustics Carbon Specials and a JLA cr-1 active crossover is an excellent system, but somewhat outside the assumed budget. Lachlan also said there was a frequency hump in the mid bass response of his listening room. Too much energy in the bass will just excite the room resonant. So, he needs a smaller subfoower that will move less air.
MA does have really nice Tweeters , pair with a Sub is required for a good budget set ! The Performer 8 sounds better because it has Multi-Drivers , where Bookshelf Speakers are only 2 drivers Thank You .
Kef kc62 and svs micro are among the best micro subs. Not cheap though. T5x from rel is also great but not as small. I myself bought a used b&w asw608 for my medium sized room for around $250 and am pretty happy with it. Not ideal if you want a lot of output but overall quality (build, sound, etc) is very good, excellent for what i paid. You can always get a 2nd one if you need it.
Excellent informative review, and great to see you do speaker comparisons in your set up as well. I can recommend a REL sub to greatly enhance your music experience. The Harbeths with a REL (or two) depending on the size of your room should be just what the doctor ordered! REL T-Zero is their smallest in that series.
I have a pair of Monitor Audio dipole surround speakers in my AV system. Every other speaker has been changed at least once, but the Monitors still persist. For moderately priced stand mounts I like the Fyne Audio F500 and the Revel M106, though I think the price of the Fyne has gone up in the last year or two. The Revels were about 60% off when I got them. The Fyne have Fyne flute bottom ports which makes them super easy to place.
Aw man not sure if this conversation rings a bell, but round about the same time that those Harbeth’s came into your life, I said to you that after quite extensive experience with Harbeth’s speakers, many different ones in the range, that I did not like them very much, to my ears they are a bit un-engaging, but I also said that you might enjoy them because of your tastes, I thought your ears would find them pleasant, and you ended up buying them sure enough - however, guess what speakers I use in my main system…Monitor Audio Silver, great minds eh? And also, your description of them being a fun sounding studio monitor is spot on, absolutely so. Their house sound is very clean, very neutral and still a lovely listen. Nice slightly sparkly top end but not very exaggerated. Harbeth are good for classical, and the monitor audios are probably a much more engaging listen for more contemporary music. I moved into them from B&W, which are pretty excellent, but the monitor audio felt better. If you are after a sub, have a look at the little baby REL one, not sure the model number, but they can go high-level into the amp, rather than using the RCA connector, and that can make a wonderful upgrade to the sound, because it takes a load off of the speakers in a sense, supposedly anyway, but having heard and used it for years, yes bookshelves and a small sub can be a match made in heaven.
Sorry I’ve just said silver, but meant gold, gs10 think is the model number, but the colour is silver so got mixed up there. Never heard the platinums, but the golds are great, been happy with them. Never tried bi-amping them though…hmm 🤔
Heh, used to sell these back at the shop. They were alright. Couldn't personally tell many differences between the Bronze and Silver series. In the theatre rooms the Monitor Audios were good for movies but I personally though they lacked for music. The big Platinum 500 II's weren't too bad either.
@@MadLadsAnonymous Different strokes for different folks. Best thing would be to go and visit your local HiFi shop and demo some gear in person. It's fun, well, I find it fun.
I had seen Zeos do a review on the Edifier R1700BT way back in the day so I said "let me try it" and I'm still using them at my desk with my PC nearly 6 and a half years later
Its good midfi actives. The newer edifiers sound even better as they use improved D class amps. No reason to upgrade tho. Edifier is another company that has graduallly refining their mid price active speakers. I would not consider them for passives.
I design and build my own speakers with high quality components and make my cabinets out of a multi layer design I came up with and I get a lot of speaker for the money
In this size and price range for $800 U.S. it would make to sense to check out the Pro-Ject Speaker Box 5 S2 The reviews are excellent ….lot of love A couple 8 inch AudioEngine subs would be inexpensive and are a great value
Metallic cones typically have far more cone break up requiring more parts in the X-over to control those unwanted cone distortions. Paper cones are better.
That is true of that Klipsch rubbish. (not talking about Fortes). But its not always the case. I like the Martin Logan sound. The JBL HDI-3800 is ridiculous good at high volume. They key is designing good frames around the woofer. I had those JBLs operating at 126 decibels. So loud that you couldnt get near them and they were rock steady. . Its one of a small group of speakers that I have measured at extreme volumes that didnt sound like ass. Any subtle distortion at 85 db becomes pronounced at 120+. I like alot of speaker material, however. I try to remain unbiased.
Paper cones can also break up varying on how it's built. They also can sometimes have "pre-breakup" with wider areas of frequency anomaly. Plastic has even less breakup than paper. So you can use it without a crossover on the woofer. But not everyone thinks plastic is the best
Interesting review. I have the Monitor Bronze 50 towers at my parents theater room and I actually don’t like them. They are good for movies but for music I think my Ascend Acoustics 340SE2 is a cleaner sounding and more neutral speaker at half the price. Monitor probably has more bass I’ll give it that but its presentation as a whole was too warm for me, but to be fair I’m comparing it to Emotiva and Ascend.
When the woofer(*) warps and moves to distortion level you are really playing EXCEEDINGLY high SP level, as a close up(near field) monitor how often do you wind it up it to even HIgh SP level? This situation also never occurs. * Most modern woofers esp. from proven manufacturers like MA have low distortion level at normal listening level already.
Hey Lachlin, I was thinking it may have been nice to compare the Bronze 100's to the 50's .. the 100's seem like a better bang/buck for only slighter more $$.
Monitor audio is a fun sound but not my taste. They have a showroom sound that are immediately impressive sound similar to B&W. Dynaudio and harbeth w Are to my taste
Not heard Harbeth but agree with your statement about MA. I always thought the Monitor Audio speakers always had a weird sounding bass. Very "poppy" instead of "thuddy" and not in a responsive snappy sort of way either. It's hard to explain. No other brand did it at the store. Was like the tweeters were wired backwards or something. They might measure fine, but certainly not my cup of tea. The big Platinum 500 II's weren't as good as I was expecting either and they were running off a Rotel Michi Pre/Power combo. Not a fan of AMT style tweeters tbh, too dull and lifeless I find in comparison to traditional ribbons. Was the same with the Martin Logan flat panel speakers, AMT style tweeter which were absolutely lifeless connected to the Aventage Z11 we had them connected to in the 11 channel room. Didn't matter the tuning, the Klipsch room was way easier to tune and Klipsch has that "sparkle" to it which is epic for Home Theatre and used to impress all the customers. This is also coming from someone who doesn't like a bright and harsh sound. Musically? I was oddly impressed by the B&W Formation Duo speakers. I love active studio monitors where the company provides the perfect amplifiers for their drivers, same applies with those B&W's. And this is coming from someone who also hates Bluetooth lol. One of my systems is a 2.1 KRK studio system with Rokit 6 G3's and a S10.4 sub, interconnected with balanced XLR, with room treatment and a 80hz xover, with Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus DAC. Solid, value for money, tuned accurately without needing to spend tonnes on re-engineering the room from the ground up, clean balanced connections, sounds great. There are no below $2K AUD 2.1 systems I know of that can compete for my tastes from HiFi land and it's all connected to my desktop PC as a source.
I use CAT 7 network cable as speaker leads, very cheap & sound good so no waste of money. Mid/Bass drivers and tweeters are very different so it seems logical to use different leads. I use two complete cables for bass / mids, one for signal, one for ground but for the tweeter just one twisted pair is used. CAT 7 are Hi spec cables and sound better than CAT 5e or 6. Also Impedance matching between the Amp o/p and the tweeter lead is used but is not needed for the mid / bass leads
Neumann & Genelec have effectively killed the competition in small speakers and made everything else redundant. Maybe the KEF Meta R3 is worth considering for a passive option, good performance but still quite a bit worse than the above and can't be calibrated with DSP room correction in the same way.
I do like active speakers, but there's a certain something about passives and the ability to tailor their sound with the choice of signal chain that I'm really enjoying at the moment.
@@PassionforSound Indeed I agree - also since they have only passive electronic components they essentially have no points of failure within the next 20 years guaranteed.
It all depends on how you like the games and movies to sound. And also whether you want active speakers (built in amp) or passive speakers (need a separate amp)
Editing music podcasts audio books everyday with IEMs got my ears have tinnitus a monitor speaker looks like a good investment for me to take a break from IEMs for awhile. Will they be as good with detail retrieval?
It's hard to match IEMs for detail retrieval because of the combination of isolation and proximity to your ears, but there should be plenty of detail from any decent system to edit spoken word audio.
Hmmmm. I'm not sure specifically, but maybe look at Clapp AV, Hey Now HiFi and The Audio Experts. (Check with them about powered speaker options before you rock up though as I don't know what they keep in stock)
Hopefully I'll have more speaker reviews as time goes by. For now, I don't have a library of speakers like I do for DACs, amps, headphones, etc. Hopefully one day! 🙂
Hey Lochlan thanks for the review. I have a Rel tZero V3 that would be a perfect fit for those Harbeths. Small, sounds exquisite plenty for a small space, will dig down to approx 30-35Hz depending on the space. Brand new in box, purchased to review haven't had time to post for sale. Pm if interested i'm in Vic so not far from you :) ""G
Wow, based on what you get on paper for the money, I wouldn't even consider the Harbeths, tbh.. and I really like some of the "other" pricey UK speaker manufacturers!
Yeah I saw the inside of the 40 th anniversary and the crossover had a tag saying it was the same as the regular harbeth and it had electrolytic caps and cheap components in a thin cabinet. And I think it was $30,000 . I design and build my own speakers and I can build a speaker for under a $1000 that would run circles around most speakers
The Harbeths have a really lovely tone and nuance that I'm yet to hear from other options, but I'll keep trying. I've got some Proac monitors coming soon - excited for that.
@@BostonMike68the thin cabinet thing is something they do on purpose to supposedly damp midrange cabinet resonance. You do pay a premium for them though, it's like the LS3/5a thing. Has a certain sound but also an aura of exclusivity and "UK magic" lol
Yes there is (at least how I think of them). To me, imaging is about the focus and separation of each sound in space which could be in the left/right plane and the depth and height planes too. Layering is only about depth in the soundstage for me and is about how well the rows in the orchestra, band, etc. are defined from front to back.
It goes to show you that you don't always get what you pay for, especially with speakers. Many companies that think "they are all that", figure they can take you for a ride based on a name. As you see here, the $3000 speaker and the $600 speakers nearly have the same frequency response curve. So, I don't see the justification in spending more, even if the $3k speaker does out perform the $600 one, but only marginally. At 5 times the cost, the $3k speaker should be 5 times better, but that is never the case. So, I came to the realization that the higher you go in price, when it comes to speakers and amplifiers, the more the Law Of diminishing Returns comes into play. Is it worth it? No, it is not. Then there are those companies that just take you for a ride and you THINK you are getting a good speaker, but when you take it apart, you find the parts used and cabinet construction equates to a speaker that is priced 10 times less. Not mentioning names here, but the OP did and it begins with an R. So, you do have to do your proper research, especially with very expensive speakers. As you see here, a $600 speaker nearly matches a $3k one. Do your homework, and never impulse buy just base on what you might think is a good brand name.
There's diminishing returns in anything. You could settle for an Edifier MR4 or whatever it is. It also probably doesn't measure a heap different and costs far less
I agree about the MR4 (which I've also reviewed and liked). The problem with focussing on frequency response is that it tells you nothing about imaging and staging characteristics or detail retrieval and therefore the sense of subtleties and nuances available from the speakers. Despite the differences being small, the Harbeths are clearly better on both counts.
@@PassionforSound That may be the case, but to me, it would never justify the price jump from $600 to $3k. I will take the $600 pair any day...thank you.
I think if you are spending £3000 or more on speakers you need a sound treated room to get the best from them, many people have to put their system in the Lounge/living room, and sound treatment is not always possible, in that case, a good pair of £600 speakers should hold up ok.
I'm going to sound like a disagree with you and then, presently, I'm going to sound like I'm repeating exactly what you said, so what's the point of the comment. But I hope when I'm finished you'll agree that the comment is somewhere in-between. Lachlan, you're probably ( ? definitely ? ) too young to remember the "Pepsi Challenge" debacle in the mid-1980s, yes? The situation was that Pepsi was going to county fairs all over the U.S. and inviting people to take a blind taste-test between Coke and Pepsi, and Pepsi was winning in a blowout. It was well over 2:1. In response, Coke panicked and changed its formula to taste more like Pepsi -- the infamous "new Coke" -- and everyone hated it. (Except for me; I liked it, but that's another story). Eventually Coke changed their formula back and they lost even *more* money. But the story here isn't what happened -- most people know that part. The story is why. The thing is, we don't sip our cola once and walk away from it. That's why Pepsi kept winning: It's not a valid way of assessing the two products. Pepsi tastes better when it first hits your mouth because it's *way* sweeter -- more fun, to borrow a phrase -- and Coke is much, much, MUCH more long-wearing. You can drink an entire Coke. It takes dedication to drink an entire Pepsi. Gets old REALLY fast. Now you're probably way ahead of me but Lachlan, I am nowhere near as surprised as you were that the $600 Monitors sounded "more fun" than the $3000 Harbeths. And the reason isn't the smile-shaped frequency response of the Monitors; it's where that smile-shape is coming from. It's the metal drivers, sir. Metal-driver speakers ALWAYS blow people away straight out of the box. That's their party trick. You listen to a pair of Spendors for six months and then hook up a pair of Amphions and you're immediately going to think, "OH MY GOD WHERE HAS THIS BEEN?!?" but then, just like the Pepsi, the excitement turns to a real problem over time. And depending on how one listens, it can be a much bigger problem. I think most people fall into one of four categories of listener: The monitor listener, the concentrate-like-your-life-depended-on-it audiophile, the walk-around-the-room guy, and then there's this fourth category, the audiophile who sits pretty still while the music is playing, but not so still that he can't relax and enjoy himself. And this presents two problems for the conclusions in your review: First, the Harbeths already comfortably win two of those four categories, the walk around the room guy and the companionable-music audiophile guy. The Harbeths win both of those after ... less than a day. Maybe even less than that. Maybe, like, twenty minutes. But the elephant in the room is that we all WANT to be that fourth guy. The happy audiophile is the fourth guy. It's what we all dream of. And it seems foolish to me, lower price notwithstanding, to buy any piece of kit that won't fit that eventual fourth-guy system. Audio gear selection processes -- and by extension audio gear reviews -- should place much, *much* more emphasis on long-term companionability. If you bought those Monitors, and re-sold your Harbeths, you would regret it. To borrow a phrase, "Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon. And for the rest of your life." Call me an iconoclast but I'm over metal-driver speaker reviews. They don't pass the fourth-guy test. Because they can't. They're made out of metal.
I completely get where you're coming from and remember the Pepsi Challenge well (although more from studying it later than being conscious of it at the time). I definitely agree that there is showroom sound and enjoyment sound and they're very different. It's the same for TVs too with their picture setup. What's impressive in a shop is almost never enjoyable to live with. That said, I don't think we can generalise quite as much as you have about metal tweeters. Whilst I do have a preference towards silk tweeters and planar/AMT tweeters, I've definitely heard some wonderful metal designs too. Case in point is that I lived with the Bronze 50s for weeks as my primary speaker before this review and while I do prefer my Harbeths still, it's for their nuance as insight, not their overall character/tonality. As I said, I completely agree with where you're coming from overall - I just think generalisations about any product design approach (metal drivers, R2R vs Delta Sigma, tube vs solid state, etc.) are tricky because they're only true until they're not...
@@PassionforSound This is very well said and I needed to be less coarse. I've been fiddling with this idea of the four types of audiophile for a while now, and someday I'd love to make a video in which I argue pretty passionately that, if you're on the horns of a dilemma between two pieces of kit, choose the one that fits that fourth guy's approach, because that's what we all want anyway. That should have been more of a stand-alone argument and, on that basis, the Harbeths would have come across in my comment as a much clearer and less dogmatic preference.
Smaller speakers are physically incapable of reproducing the lower end spectrum without massive drop off, and discussion about their bass capabilities and "fun factor" should be taken with a grain of salt. I understand not everyone wants or can have a subwoofer, and for them this review is helpful. However, by design, you're working with a handicap if you're not comparing bookshelfs, or even mid sized monitors with a sub.
I hate dual binding post on bookshelf speakers. For a bookshelf speaker there is no reason to bi-wire or bi-amp them. unnecessary crap in the signal path.
I definitely don't see any need for them either...
I fully agree with that. It seems that the dual binding post is the same as in the larger Bronze 200 floorstanders - guess that they have chosen to use the same parts - keeping costs in check - makes sense, but indeed unnecessary for bookshelf speakers.
40 + pairs of speakers. Never need to buy new .Just rotate in a pair and Bingo !!!😅
I agree. I would rather have one binding post that accepts banana plugs.
On these, I'd much rsther see a pair of high-quality, non steel, binding posts and lose those awful connector strips. We also need to stop using the term book shelf. Hardly anyone is going to listen to these placed on a bookshelf. They would sound horrible. Stand mount speakers they are. In my exoerience Biwire is nonesense, however Bi Amp can have sonic benefits, but its difficult to get the balance right, and you are unlikely to hear those benefits in low or mid fi products like these.
The Bronze series from Monitor Audio, is kind of a unicorn, I think.
The Bronze, sound almost identical to its more expencive sibling (especially the bookshelves).
I have the Bronze 100's as bedlayer speakers all the way in my cinema/ musicroom, and the sound absolutly stuning.
The details are so clear, bass tight and punchy (yes, they are crossed to subs). The coherency in the sound is fantastic (probably due to the speakers beeing identical all the way).
I find that they actually sound best closer too the walls (don't understand why). The soundstage actually open up more, closer to the wall, and the buble of sound surrounding me, is more present in that position (in stereo).
I have a rather dampened/ treated room, and I gues that might have something to do with placment/ soundstage.
😊
Sounds like a pretty cool setup! Thanks for sharing
@@PassionforSound
Thanks😊
It works for me😊
I have HT rig, Denon S6700H AV AMP, used as a processor. all the 11 channels have Emotiva BasX A3/A4/A4 power amps on them, Speakers are Monitor Audio Gold C350 Centre (£500 on Ebay like new) Monitor Audio Bronze 500 L/R (£500 in a sale) Monitor Audio Bronze 100's side and rear Surrounds (I got both pairs for half price in a sale so £250 a pair), Bowers and Wilkins M-1's as front and rear heights. And two SVS PB1000 Active subs £450 each. Sounds awesome, immersion is just wow. I also listen to stereo music, via streaming from my laptop or wired Phono, the MA 500's just fill the room, and the soundstage and separation is as good as anything I have ever heard, in fact I had to keep checking to make sure the Centre speaker was not on lol. Im very happy with my set up, and think I could of spent 4 times or more the money for very little improvement. So im done for now on my purchasing journey, and just enjoying the Movies/Music. Glad you are enjoying yours as well. I think too many people are chasing a dream instead of just listening and having fun.
@@johnbancroft5242
You are on point when it comes to just enjoying what we have, and not chasing demons of perfection🤪
What would you say is the difference between 500's and 100's ? 😊
Do you find any sonic differences between the ribbon tweeter of the gold center, and the metaldome tweeter of the bronze? 😊
@@andreemilsen369 The tweeter in the C350 gold centre, is better quality than the Bronze tweeters, but in real life use they work well together, In Movies, and TV the centre does most of the heavy lifting, and the C350 just disappears as you watch the screen, and only occassionally does dialogue move from left to right, but if it moves from one actor to the other, how can you tell the sonic difference. as all voices are different. The main reason to get the C350 was it is 200 watt RMS and and 90bd sensitivity so matched the Bronze 500's, Sadly the Bronze centre is a little weedy. As I said before, I think I made a good choice. it works well to my ears. They stopped making the Gold C350. but the do make the Gold C250, and I would get that, if you want a good centre to match any MA towers. As for the 500's to 100's. the 500's just fill the room more, scale. and they can dig deep. for some people you might not need a subwoofer.
I saved up for quite a while to get the Silver 100s-for me it was a big purchase. But I really enjoy them, especially for rock and modern pop, which I think benefit from a rather impressive bass, given their size. Overall I think the monitor house sound is just plain and simple fun
Glad you're enjoying your choice! If they're like these, what you say makes complete sense. 🙂
Absolutely agree with this comment, you obviously hear what I do.
My days of buying expensive speakers are over, but I have a couple pairs of large and expensive (in today's dollars) stereo pairs that I'm maintaining for the long haul that were both refreshed within the last 5 yrs. In more recent days, I have purchased a TV soundbar and sub for TV room, pairs of open and closed back headphones for various applications,
and a pair of bookshelf speakers with stands for low spl nighttime use.
I've been working with audio long enough that I usually have a fairly good idea of what I want apriori, so these days I research options of my target product, find out all I can, and order what I think I want online, making sure that if I was wrong, I can return the product. I have a fairly good success rate that way, and rarely have to deal with the hassle of returns, thankfully!
Thanks for sharing your experiences
Yes, always good to have a few speaker setups so that you can pick which to listen to based on application or program material for maximum enjoyment👍😉.
My parents have been absolutely loving the MA Silver 100's that I bought for them last year.
Always loved Monitor Audio and i now own the Platinum 100 3G with Accuphase and Holo Audio electronics. Started off 15 odd years ago with the RX6 and the Rega Brio R amplifier. Since then i've tried other speakers from Focal and heard tons of different speakers over the years and have always loved their lively house sound.
Went for ATC (40 SCM), because they appealed to me as an engineering brand and had a proven track record.
I bought them as back surrounds for 400 Euros. Indeed great for the job, not as your mains, but when you’re on a tight budget they will do nice work as your mains.
That makes a lot of sense
Thanks for the review. I’ve seen several good reviews of those MAs. A great deal at $600 for the pair. I have a pair of SVS SB1000 Pros in my 2.2 music system. They are only about a foot wide and a foot deep so they fit into small spaces with a 12 inch woofer and they sound excellent. No port so I have them each in a corner close to the front and side walls without any sound issues. I got the pair of open-box for under $1,000 US for the pair so very affordable. SVS also has excellent customer service before, during and after the sale. Rock on!
Thanks for the input!
I have the KEF KC62 and love it, zero issues with it. Lovely little box. Pretty basic controls though, but that doesnt bother me
In the last 2-4 yr, companies like Monitor, JBL, Polk, wharfdale have really upped their game in the 600-800 dollar range. There really are a bunch of fabulous speakers down in that price range. I repair equipment for several pawn shops and online resellers on the east coast. When I tear down speakers I can observe the equipment without all the window dressing. 1. Cabinet and bracing design are very important. 2. Cross over design and capacitor quality are also important. 3. How pressurized air is directed into a port is also important. 4. Tweeter quality is also important. All of these are observable when a speaker is open. I like what JBL, WD, Martin Logan do in a mid cost speaker. Sometimes I open up costly speakers from lesser known companies and I do not like what I see (or hear). So the correlation between price 500---->3,000 and sound quality isnt always accurate. SVS PB-2000 Pro is a good sub in a moderately sized footprint. Air management from cabinet to port is well controlled. Larger woofer size ( > 12") are not always good for music, particularly when pairing to bookshelf size front speakers. Total overkill.
Thanks for the insights!
The RSL Speedwoofer line is highly rated and a fantastic value but may not be as small as you are looking for.
I'll check it out - thank you!
A very compact, sealed subwoofer is Lyngdorf's BW-3. It's not exatly cheap, but if you're thinking on long term, might be a solution. Cheers.
I'm currently running the Monitor Audio Radius 90's with a Rel T/5x for my computer desk audio, absolutely satisfied with the results!
My favorite "bass reflex" type speaker is a good passive radiator design. I'm not a big fan of ported cabinets either. My favorites
are actually large acoustic suspension designs, if
amplifier power and the physical space to enjoy them can be afforded.
I have a MA speaker from the series below the Bronze. It's still quite well built. Poly cone woofer but nicely vented, solid cabinet. 2nd order crossover. Still has a "CCAM" tweeter.
Nice! They seem to make solid gear even at the lower end.
I love the HSU VTF2mk5 fir a sub. $690 USD plus shipping. It has a 1 adjustment which I used to tuen to the room. It has 2 ports of different sizes which give it 4 tunings. And, it extends below 20hz. Performance for the price is excellent.
Thanks for the recommendation!
I have Harbeth P3ESR in my small room without acoustic treatment but with a table, close to windows and corners
I use REL T9x sub but smaller REL will be great choice too
I use Aurender N150 + Chord TT2 + Chord TToby on the desk
But if I move Harbeth P3ESR to my dedicated music room with better electronics (Aurender N200 + Bricasti M1 + McIntosh C2700 + McIntosh 462) I can hear quite a lot of a difference (unlike other bookshelf I tried)
This is why I bought Harbeth P3ESR - they have potential and in (very) certain cases overperform my primary Sonus Faber Amati
Thanks for sharing your experiences
I have Monitor Audio Silver 100 with 8' woofer. BEST SPEAKERS. No need for subwoofer.
Glad you're enjoying them!
So glad finally someone has made a comparison with Harbeth. I've been impressed by Harbeth's sound at audio shows but couldn't justify their high price tags. Hope there's more options that can match its performance. Look forward to your next review of mini monitors.
I've got some similarly priced competition coming soon with some Proac monitors to pit against the Harbeths. 🙂
Small speakers sound small especially at loud volumes. My speakers are 6' x 2' x 1' with dual 15" woofers each.
How do I choose? When I lived in the city, I listened first, then read reviews. Now I live 7 hrs from the nearest major city that would have any substantial choices. Thank god, before I moved here, that decision was made. Now I would have to rely on reviewers. There are smaller centres that are closer, 2 to 3 hrs drive, but are limited with what they carry. What they do carry though, are surprisingly capable products, just not a lot of choices. I personally own Hyperion 968 and also Gallo Ref 3, 2nd gen..
I prefer to use dual subs with my music listening. Currently I have 2 RSL 12S subwoofers and use a Sublime Acoustics K235 crossover or my SPL Crossover to dial them in. I find the subs fill in what is lost with just using speakers by themselves. I have owned more expensive subs and th RSL match the performance or beat it in my opinion at far less money. This hobby is great so do what you want not what other suggest. Listen to others yet do what you prefer with your ears! Good video as always. Still waiting on the Schiit Yggdrasil MIB and LAiV Harmony comparison lol!!!!
The LAiV is up for review pretty soon, but I produce a bit ahead of time so it's probably a late July public release IIRC.
@@PassionforSound I am chomping at the bit! Lol truly want to know how those two compare. I have seen it compare and pull ahead of the top Denefrips. Respect your review and opinion, nice to here several before Inpull the trigger on one.
I'm doing my critical listening and evaluation this weekend 🙂
I'd recommend a REL T0 for a small and unobtrusive yet very effective subwoofer -- but advise using its high-level input using the supplied Speakon connector. With Class D amps, best to connect the black wire to the ground screw of the amp, or if one isn't supplied, to one of the casing screws rather than the left negative speaker terminal. At £449 new, not sure if it'd be considered "affordable" though.
Thanks for your input!
Lachlan, I have the Silver 50 7g which is being used in a near field application. They are terrific for many of the reasons you noted. I paired them with the REL TX5 sub which helped round out the low end. I also switched DACs from the RMA to the Bifrost 264. The latter has more low mid grip which helped as well. Cheers.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and sub suggestion!
Your descriptions remind me of my Monitor Audio RS6 silver towers, a very old model that has served me well - Clear and fun with good tonality, very quick, but keep them away from the wall. I found replacing the metal plates that connect the binding posts with my own wire connections made sounded slightly better.
That's interesting about the binding post tweak! Thank you.
Have a look at the REL Acoustics T/x series subwoofers. Perhaps a REL Classic subwoofer would be a better visual match for the Harbeth speakers.
20.7s w 2-Rel Carbon Specials
JLA cr-1 active crossover 😊
Shunyata Research Python xlr's
@@CarlVanDoren61 Lachlan said he was looking to add an affordable subfoower. Two REL Acoustics Carbon Specials and a JLA cr-1 active crossover is an excellent system, but somewhat outside the assumed budget. Lachlan also said there was a frequency hump in the mid bass response of his listening room. Too much energy in the bass will just excite the room resonant. So, he needs a smaller subfoower that will move less air.
Thanks for all the info and ideas!
In your price range, compare rsl, svs, rel, polk, and klipsch and I'm sure something will appeal to you for subwoofer use.
MA does have really nice Tweeters , pair with a Sub is required for a good budget set ! The Performer 8 sounds better because it has Multi-Drivers , where Bookshelf Speakers are only 2 drivers Thank You .
Kef kc62 and svs micro are among the best micro subs. Not cheap though. T5x from rel is also great but not as small. I myself bought a used b&w asw608 for my medium sized room for around $250 and am pretty happy with it. Not ideal if you want a lot of output but overall quality (build, sound, etc) is very good, excellent for what i paid. You can always get a 2nd one if you need it.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Excellent informative review, and great to see you do speaker comparisons in your set up as well. I can recommend a REL sub to greatly enhance your music experience. The Harbeths with a REL (or two) depending on the size of your room should be just what the doctor ordered! REL T-Zero is their smallest in that series.
I'm glad you liked it and I have more planned soon. Thanks for the sub tip. Rel is getting a lot of love in the comments.
I have a pair of Monitor Audio dipole surround speakers in my AV system. Every other speaker has been changed at least once, but the Monitors still persist.
For moderately priced stand mounts I like the Fyne Audio F500 and the Revel M106, though I think the price of the Fyne has gone up in the last year or two. The Revels were about 60% off when I got them.
The Fyne have Fyne flute bottom ports which makes them super easy to place.
Thanks for sharing, Jim!
I've heard the Harbeths with two REL T Zero, and it's transformational, but I'd guess one is going to give you enough in your room
Thanks for the input!
Aw man not sure if this conversation rings a bell, but round about the same time that those Harbeth’s came into your life, I said to you that after quite extensive experience with Harbeth’s speakers, many different ones in the range, that I did not like them very much, to my ears they are a bit un-engaging, but I also said that you might enjoy them because of your tastes, I thought your ears would find them pleasant, and you ended up buying them sure enough - however, guess what speakers I use in my main system…Monitor Audio Silver, great minds eh? And also, your description of them being a fun sounding studio monitor is spot on, absolutely so. Their house sound is very clean, very neutral and still a lovely listen. Nice slightly sparkly top end but not very exaggerated. Harbeth are good for classical, and the monitor audios are probably a much more engaging listen for more contemporary music. I moved into them from B&W, which are pretty excellent, but the monitor audio felt better. If you are after a sub, have a look at the little baby REL one, not sure the model number, but they can go high-level into the amp, rather than using the RCA connector, and that can make a wonderful upgrade to the sound, because it takes a load off of the speakers in a sense, supposedly anyway, but having heard and used it for years, yes bookshelves and a small sub can be a match made in heaven.
Sorry I’ve just said silver, but meant gold, gs10 think is the model number, but the colour is silver so got mixed up there. Never heard the platinums, but the golds are great, been happy with them. Never tried bi-amping them though…hmm 🤔
Thanks Mark! 🙂🙂
Heh, used to sell these back at the shop. They were alright.
Couldn't personally tell many differences between the Bronze and Silver series.
In the theatre rooms the Monitor Audios were good for movies but I personally though they lacked for music.
The big Platinum 500 II's weren't too bad either.
What would you suggest for smaller rooms and low volume listening?
@@MadLadsAnonymous Different strokes for different folks. Best thing would be to go and visit your local HiFi shop and demo some gear in person. It's fun, well, I find it fun.
If you're looking for a compact and excellent value for money subwoofer I'd recommend looking at the Q Acoustics 3060S. Fast, tight and punchy bass.
🙏
I had seen Zeos do a review on the Edifier R1700BT way back in the day so I said "let me try it" and I'm still using them at my desk with my PC nearly 6 and a half years later
Its good midfi actives. The newer edifiers sound even better as they use improved D class amps. No reason to upgrade tho. Edifier is another company that has graduallly refining their mid price active speakers. I would not consider them for passives.
Edifier make some great gear for the prices!
Good review, I would suggest ditching the binding post links as they probably are smearing the sound and get something better.
I design and build my own speakers with high quality components and make my cabinets out of a multi layer design I came up with and I get a lot of speaker for the money
In this size and price range for $800 U.S. it would make to sense to check out the
Pro-Ject Speaker Box 5 S2
The reviews are excellent ….lot of love
A couple 8 inch AudioEngine subs would be inexpensive and are a great value
Thanks for the suggestion!
Very nice review thank you as far as a compact sub, take a look at the SVS 3000 micro.
That's actually one model I've considered previously and it looks like a great option! Thank you.
My pleasure
Metallic cones typically have far more cone break up requiring more parts in the X-over to control those unwanted cone distortions. Paper cones are better.
That is true of that Klipsch rubbish. (not talking about Fortes). But its not always the case. I like the Martin Logan sound. The JBL HDI-3800 is ridiculous good at high volume. They key is designing good frames around the woofer. I had those JBLs operating at 126 decibels. So loud that you couldnt get near them and they were rock steady. . Its one of a small group of speakers that I have measured at extreme volumes that didnt sound like ass. Any subtle distortion at 85 db becomes pronounced at 120+. I like alot of speaker material, however. I try to remain unbiased.
Paper cones can also break up varying on how it's built.
They also can sometimes have "pre-breakup" with wider areas of frequency anomaly.
Plastic has even less breakup than paper. So you can use it without a crossover on the woofer. But not everyone thinks plastic is the best
you should take a look at the Kanto subwoofer....perfect for small spaces, really cool looking and wont take all the food money...
Thanks for the suggestion!
And thank you to you Lachlan for this much nuanced review.
My pleasure!
Interesting review. I have the Monitor Bronze 50 towers at my parents theater room and I actually don’t like them. They are good for movies but for music I think my Ascend Acoustics 340SE2 is a cleaner sounding and more neutral speaker at half the price. Monitor probably has more bass I’ll give it that but its presentation as a whole was too warm for me, but to be fair I’m comparing it to Emotiva and Ascend.
I tend to like a little warmth so that makes sense. Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Adelaide speakers (ascension) a bespoke speaker manufacturer out of Adelaide do a fantastic subwoofer.
Cool! I do love to support local brands when they're good. 🙂
When the woofer(*) warps and moves to distortion level you are really playing EXCEEDINGLY high SP level, as a close up(near field) monitor how often do you wind it up it to even HIgh SP level? This situation also never occurs.
* Most modern woofers esp. from proven manufacturers like MA have low distortion level at normal listening level already.
Rel Tzero MkIII
Hey Lachlin,
I was thinking it may have been nice to compare the Bronze 100's to the 50's .. the 100's seem like a better bang/buck for only slighter more $$.
I had a look and don't know that Radio Parts carry them, but could maybe get them in...
Monitor audio is a fun sound but not my taste. They have a showroom sound that are immediately impressive sound similar to B&W. Dynaudio and harbeth w
Are to my taste
Not heard Harbeth but agree with your statement about MA. I always thought the Monitor Audio speakers always had a weird sounding bass. Very "poppy" instead of "thuddy" and not in a responsive snappy sort of way either. It's hard to explain. No other brand did it at the store. Was like the tweeters were wired backwards or something. They might measure fine, but certainly not my cup of tea. The big Platinum 500 II's weren't as good as I was expecting either and they were running off a Rotel Michi Pre/Power combo. Not a fan of AMT style tweeters tbh, too dull and lifeless I find in comparison to traditional ribbons. Was the same with the Martin Logan flat panel speakers, AMT style tweeter which were absolutely lifeless connected to the Aventage Z11 we had them connected to in the 11 channel room. Didn't matter the tuning, the Klipsch room was way easier to tune and Klipsch has that "sparkle" to it which is epic for Home Theatre and used to impress all the customers. This is also coming from someone who doesn't like a bright and harsh sound.
Musically? I was oddly impressed by the B&W Formation Duo speakers. I love active studio monitors where the company provides the perfect amplifiers for their drivers, same applies with those B&W's. And this is coming from someone who also hates Bluetooth lol.
One of my systems is a 2.1 KRK studio system with Rokit 6 G3's and a S10.4 sub, interconnected with balanced XLR, with room treatment and a 80hz xover, with Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus DAC. Solid, value for money, tuned accurately without needing to spend tonnes on re-engineering the room from the ground up, clean balanced connections, sounds great. There are no below $2K AUD 2.1 systems I know of that can compete for my tastes from HiFi land and it's all connected to my desktop PC as a source.
Lachlan i would suggest checking out rythmik or rel subs. Imo they are the best SQ subs for 2 channel enthusiasts.
My platinum 200s are a god send
I put my audiophile inside my bedroom...DAC amp (headphones 🎧)
Big speaker at hall...
Hi prefer Bi-wiring speaker with two sets of leads from one amp
I use CAT 7 network cable as speaker leads, very cheap & sound good so no waste of money. Mid/Bass drivers and tweeters are very different so it seems logical to use different leads. I use two complete cables for bass / mids, one for signal, one for ground but for the tweeter just one twisted pair is used. CAT 7 are Hi spec cables and sound better than CAT 5e or 6. Also Impedance matching between the Amp o/p and the tweeter lead is used but is not needed for the mid / bass leads
Thanks for sharing!
Neumann & Genelec have effectively killed the competition in small speakers and made everything else redundant.
Maybe the KEF Meta R3 is worth considering for a passive option, good performance but still quite a bit worse than the above and can't be calibrated with DSP room correction in the same way.
I do like active speakers, but there's a certain something about passives and the ability to tailor their sound with the choice of signal chain that I'm really enjoying at the moment.
@@PassionforSound Indeed I agree - also since they have only passive electronic components they essentially have no points of failure within the next 20 years guaranteed.
If not these, what are good speakers for gaming and movies?
It all depends on how you like the games and movies to sound. And also whether you want active speakers (built in amp) or passive speakers (need a separate amp)
Editing music podcasts audio books everyday with IEMs got my ears have tinnitus a monitor speaker looks like a good investment for me to take a break from IEMs for awhile. Will they be as good with detail retrieval?
It's hard to match IEMs for detail retrieval because of the combination of isolation and proximity to your ears, but there should be plenty of detail from any decent system to edit spoken word audio.
What are the 3 best places to go to in Melbourne if I’m after some powered speakers that I can listen to before buying?
Hmmmm. I'm not sure specifically, but maybe look at Clapp AV, Hey Now HiFi and The Audio Experts. (Check with them about powered speaker options before you rock up though as I don't know what they keep in stock)
Nice review! I'd love to see these compared to the JBL 306p mark2
Hopefully I'll have more speaker reviews as time goes by. For now, I don't have a library of speakers like I do for DACs, amps, headphones, etc. Hopefully one day! 🙂
Hey Lochlan thanks for the review.
I have a Rel tZero V3 that would be a perfect fit for those Harbeths.
Small, sounds exquisite plenty for a small space, will dig down to approx 30-35Hz depending on the space.
Brand new in box, purchased to review haven't had time to post for sale.
Pm if interested i'm in Vic so not far from you :)
""G
Thanks for letting me know. Not sure how I can PM you though...
Klipsch Cornwall IV have 'nuff bass....
wow that amp stand or what u call it, are sick! where do u find that ?
Those are the Burson Mothership stands: ruclips.net/video/Nn95ZL4adwo/видео.htmlsi=-ukt8tae3_Z27E1F
Bought this yesterday and looking for an amp, do you recommend sth like LOXJIE A30? Any other suggestions? Using it nearfield and not much desk space
The Fosi ZA3 is quite a good option. My review of that is coming very soon if you can wait a little.
You can't go wrong with a REL sub.
Is it a desk top application?
For me? Yes
Wow, based on what you get on paper for the money,
I wouldn't even consider the Harbeths, tbh.. and I really like some of the "other" pricey
UK speaker manufacturers!
Yeah I saw the inside of the 40 th anniversary and the crossover had a tag saying it was the same as the regular harbeth and it had electrolytic caps and cheap components in a thin cabinet. And I think it was $30,000 . I design and build my own speakers and I can build a speaker for under a $1000 that would run circles around most speakers
@@BostonMike68
No overhead 4u
The Harbeths have a really lovely tone and nuance that I'm yet to hear from other options, but I'll keep trying. I've got some Proac monitors coming soon - excited for that.
@@BostonMike68the thin cabinet thing is something they do on purpose to supposedly damp midrange cabinet resonance.
You do pay a premium for them though, it's like the LS3/5a thing. Has a certain sound but also an aura of exclusivity and "UK magic" lol
@@RennieAsh Do you actually believe a
thinner panel will damp resonances better ??
12:27 can i ask if there's a difference between the terms "imaging" and "layering"
Yes there is (at least how I think of them). To me, imaging is about the focus and separation of each sound in space which could be in the left/right plane and the depth and height planes too. Layering is only about depth in the soundstage for me and is about how well the rows in the orchestra, band, etc. are defined from front to back.
@@PassionforSound ah, thank you for the clarification 😊
My pleasure!
What amp are you using?
Enleum AMP-23R, Burson Timekeeper GTs, WiiM Amp and SMSL AO200 Mk2
It goes to show you that you don't always get what you pay for, especially with speakers. Many companies that think "they are all that", figure they can take you for a ride based on a name. As you see here, the $3000 speaker and the $600 speakers nearly have the same frequency response curve. So, I don't see the justification in spending more, even if the $3k speaker does out perform the $600 one, but only marginally. At 5 times the cost, the $3k speaker should be 5 times better, but that is never the case. So, I came to the realization that the higher you go in price, when it comes to speakers and amplifiers, the more the Law Of diminishing Returns comes into play. Is it worth it? No, it is not. Then there are those companies that just take you for a ride and you THINK you are getting a good speaker, but when you take it apart, you find the parts used and cabinet construction equates to a speaker that is priced 10 times less. Not mentioning names here, but the OP did and it begins with an R. So, you do have to do your proper research, especially with very expensive speakers. As you see here, a $600 speaker nearly matches a $3k one. Do your homework, and never impulse buy just base on what you might think is a good brand name.
There's diminishing returns in anything.
You could settle for an Edifier MR4 or whatever it is. It also probably doesn't measure a heap different and costs far less
I agree about the MR4 (which I've also reviewed and liked). The problem with focussing on frequency response is that it tells you nothing about imaging and staging characteristics or detail retrieval and therefore the sense of subtleties and nuances available from the speakers. Despite the differences being small, the Harbeths are clearly better on both counts.
@@PassionforSound That may be the case, but to me, it would never justify the price jump from $600 to $3k. I will take the $600 pair any day...thank you.
Fair enough. Personal preferences are important.
I think if you are spending £3000 or more on speakers you need a sound treated room to get the best from them, many people have to put their system in the Lounge/living room, and sound treatment is not always possible, in that case, a good pair of £600 speakers should hold up ok.
I'm going to sound like a disagree with you and then, presently, I'm going to sound like I'm repeating exactly what you said, so what's the point of the comment. But I hope when I'm finished you'll agree that the comment is somewhere in-between.
Lachlan, you're probably ( ? definitely ? ) too young to remember the "Pepsi Challenge" debacle in the mid-1980s, yes? The situation was that Pepsi was going to county fairs all over the U.S. and inviting people to take a blind taste-test between Coke and Pepsi, and Pepsi was winning in a blowout. It was well over 2:1. In response, Coke panicked and changed its formula to taste more like Pepsi -- the infamous "new Coke" -- and everyone hated it. (Except for me; I liked it, but that's another story). Eventually Coke changed their formula back and they lost even *more* money.
But the story here isn't what happened -- most people know that part. The story is why. The thing is, we don't sip our cola once and walk away from it. That's why Pepsi kept winning: It's not a valid way of assessing the two products. Pepsi tastes better when it first hits your mouth because it's *way* sweeter -- more fun, to borrow a phrase -- and Coke is much, much, MUCH more long-wearing. You can drink an entire Coke. It takes dedication to drink an entire Pepsi. Gets old REALLY fast.
Now you're probably way ahead of me but Lachlan, I am nowhere near as surprised as you were that the $600 Monitors sounded "more fun" than the $3000 Harbeths. And the reason isn't the smile-shaped frequency response of the Monitors; it's where that smile-shape is coming from. It's the metal drivers, sir. Metal-driver speakers ALWAYS blow people away straight out of the box. That's their party trick. You listen to a pair of Spendors for six months and then hook up a pair of Amphions and you're immediately going to think, "OH MY GOD WHERE HAS THIS BEEN?!?" but then, just like the Pepsi, the excitement turns to a real problem over time. And depending on how one listens, it can be a much bigger problem.
I think most people fall into one of four categories of listener: The monitor listener, the concentrate-like-your-life-depended-on-it audiophile, the walk-around-the-room guy, and then there's this fourth category, the audiophile who sits pretty still while the music is playing, but not so still that he can't relax and enjoy himself. And this presents two problems for the conclusions in your review: First, the Harbeths already comfortably win two of those four categories, the walk around the room guy and the companionable-music audiophile guy. The Harbeths win both of those after ... less than a day. Maybe even less than that. Maybe, like, twenty minutes. But the elephant in the room is that we all WANT to be that fourth guy. The happy audiophile is the fourth guy. It's what we all dream of. And it seems foolish to me, lower price notwithstanding, to buy any piece of kit that won't fit that eventual fourth-guy system.
Audio gear selection processes -- and by extension audio gear reviews -- should place much, *much* more emphasis on long-term companionability. If you bought those Monitors, and re-sold your Harbeths, you would regret it. To borrow a phrase, "Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon. And for the rest of your life." Call me an iconoclast but I'm over metal-driver speaker reviews. They don't pass the fourth-guy test. Because they can't. They're made out of metal.
I completely get where you're coming from and remember the Pepsi Challenge well (although more from studying it later than being conscious of it at the time).
I definitely agree that there is showroom sound and enjoyment sound and they're very different. It's the same for TVs too with their picture setup. What's impressive in a shop is almost never enjoyable to live with.
That said, I don't think we can generalise quite as much as you have about metal tweeters. Whilst I do have a preference towards silk tweeters and planar/AMT tweeters, I've definitely heard some wonderful metal designs too. Case in point is that I lived with the Bronze 50s for weeks as my primary speaker before this review and while I do prefer my Harbeths still, it's for their nuance as insight, not their overall character/tonality.
As I said, I completely agree with where you're coming from overall - I just think generalisations about any product design approach (metal drivers, R2R vs Delta Sigma, tube vs solid state, etc.) are tricky because they're only true until they're not...
@@PassionforSound This is very well said and I needed to be less coarse. I've been fiddling with this idea of the four types of audiophile for a while now, and someday I'd love to make a video in which I argue pretty passionately that, if you're on the horns of a dilemma between two pieces of kit, choose the one that fits that fourth guy's approach, because that's what we all want anyway. That should have been more of a stand-alone argument and, on that basis, the Harbeths would have come across in my comment as a much clearer and less dogmatic preference.
Passion: 100
Listening skill: 0
Wait til you hear Adam audio t5v. Best speaker under 1k$ easy
I'm keen to try some!
@@PassionforSound you have to bro!! Please lmk what you think when you do!!!!!
REL subs!
Smaller speakers are physically incapable of reproducing the lower end spectrum without massive drop off, and discussion about their bass capabilities and "fun factor" should be taken with a grain of salt. I understand not everyone wants or can have a subwoofer, and for them this review is helpful. However, by design, you're working with a handicap if you're not comparing bookshelfs, or even mid sized monitors with a sub.