Having been an audio technician for more than 50 years, I've found that explaining that doubling amplifier power only gives one a 3db increase in SPL. Large amps on efficient speakers have the feature of providing more headroom for loud passages, ensuring fewer square waves are delivered to the speakers, can be helpful.
I was in the same boat for so long. More watts = More better. Then I bought a second hand NAD 7020e receiver, rated at a whopping 20w/ch, and was blown away at how it would punch way above its weight class. It really made me rethink what I thought I knew about power ratings.
A couple of basic guidelines .... The minimum obvious change in volume most people can hear is 3db ... but increasing levels by 3db requires twice as much power. The "twice as loud" point most people talk about is actually +10db ... which requires 10 times the power. Average living room levels are about 70dba ... which most often requires only 2 or 3 watts of average power. With 10db of peak headroom that 70dba can easily be accomodated by a 20 watt/ch amplifier.
Hey Brother! This is from the 64 year old Black man O.G and music loving audiophile( my full title🤣). Just a comment or two. It's easy to understand. The more efficient the speakers the less watts you need. The reverse is true if you have something like Maggies, then you will need all the watts you can get!! I think also speakers with a big sound stage can seem louder than those that project smaller. Amplifier headroom plays a big part too. One of the amplifiers I have, a classic Hafler 120a is 60 watts, but has a dynamic output in excess of 110 watts. Let's not forget preamplifier output sensitivity!
Automotive industry calls it “tip in”. It’s how fast the car reacts when accelerator is pushed. Some sensitive, some not. You really feel it when driving something the first time. Could be a good reference for explaining to customers.
I have a sensitive accelerator on my short wheelbase 2007 Tundra, I purposely set the truck up to drive as street sport truck so it suits me but others with the same accelerator complain about it.
@@kevinyoung2431 Our old Cadillac from the early 70's had a quadrajet carb. Car seemed weak and sluggish even when gas was pressed well over 1/2 way, BUT the last 1/3rd? Yep, it poured on the coal! Move to a large 2bbl now. We had a 1967 Impala w/a 289. Just tap the gas and it would almost jump, but, get it up to highway speed and start pressing it down to the floor, not a whole lot of anything. Kinda like some volume controls. Wimpy big box receivers had a touchy pot, huge change of volume till 1/2 way (12 O'Clock), after that, little change.
Another reason I love the variable loudness knob on my Yamaha receivers. Between the volume knob and the loudness knob you can always find the perfect sound level.
Nice explanation. While explaining this to my son I showed him just what 1WPC (as per my amps meter) really sounds like. A lot louder than he expected.
Volume taper is something that most do not comprehend. I have a Pass Labs XP 32 and it has a very very long taper which is extremely useful for different types of speakers. Excellent explanation of watts vs volume control and actual output levels. Very very educational.
Thoroughly enjoyed this weekly installment. I think years ago, when I was working at Franklin Music, the manufacturers had their "Tim the Tool Man" moment, long before television show -- MORE POWER !!! Speaker manufacturers were trying to keep up with the "Watts Guys". They were having to build stuff that could actually handle the current. I am in complete agreement that I think right now, fifty watts IS probably a really good sweet spot. All of the vintage stuff that I have been picking up, hits right around that sweet spot. Enjoyed this. Thanks ! Rip
100% Accurate! I’ve been restoring advising people regarding audio for years. They never quite understand the logarithmic taper. Matching the speakers and amplifier is very important.
First-time I've heard of it. All the info I've been studying for last 3 yrs, never came up. Explains why a lower powered amp seems louder than some of the higher end units. My sx 750 seems to be more linear and it's a mid grade reciever, but man my sx 737 gets loud very quickly. Between 9 and 10 o'clock.
I find 60 watt and larger amps generally have more power reserve when hitting large bass notes and do not bog down like some of the lower wattage ones ,they may have better damping also.
This is a key statement that should never be overlooked, especially if you are a fan of full spectrum. This is why huge transformers and caps matter. And I suspect this is really the diff Kevin was speaking of at the end but not stating it.
Great perspective on wattage Kevin! On my Sansui 5050 (30 WPC) connected to my Klipsch Heresy III's (99db efficiency); once you turn the volume past the 9 o'clock position, you get into eardrum shattering volume levels!
I remember a car throttle linkage that was intentionally designed to give you a very non-linear response. The cable-operated pulley on the throttle was oval shaped, the first inch of your foot on the pedal opened the throttle almost half way, then it opened much more slowly. Made the engine feel very responsive, when in face it was a throttle body injected pushrod 4 cylinder.
In 1976, I bought a 15 WPC Technics Tuner/Amp and used it to make by ears bleed from vinyl, through CDs and then finally powering a home theater system. It finally gave up the ghost in 2012 but I loved that thing. Yes, I've been blown away by the looks and the depth of sound from the premium systems but, I had all I needed at 15 watts. The 15 watt amp here through the high efficiency speakers sounded fantastic. If I'm sitting in my basement mancave and I want to turn it up to 11, it better be no more than 25 watts or I'd have to move out. And frankly, who wants to listen to music so loud you can barely hear yourself talk? Great experience to go to a bar that's so loud you need to stand a foot away from a girl you're trying to talk to and you wind up spitting all over her face. No thanks.
This is a good explanation video. Not to technical, but simply explained that you can see the logic of it. Where were you 30 years ago when I was caught up in the More Watts era thinking.
That Au of yours is my holy grail, Sansui always has such an inviting sound with power . I’ll tell you from experience, my Sui 5050 comes on fast compared to my 9090db. My 9090 comes alive at half way.
I am a bit of a hifi junky; I love old Sansuis, Pioneers and Marantz. I have built plenty of big wattage systems. But I got a project that use to belong to my grand father many years ago. It is a Pioneer SX-535; it came with bad transistors in the amplification section and noisy transistors in the pre-amp. I decided lets do a full restoration on this guy after it sat in an attic for the better part of 30 years; with a note that said it was damaging speakers. When I completed the work I paired it with a pair of new Klipsch book shelf speakers that were really efficient. For only have 20 watts a channel it sure can punch pretty hard. Sounds great in the dinning room. I am from the school of having a few more watts than you need is never a bad thing; but there is certainly more to the sound like frequency response and slew rate. I like the idea of being able to work an amp and not stress it out.
RIGHT! If it has the beef you can play it as u want without clipping or taking off the top.of the audio wave which sort of ends up as D.C. I guess it could be likened to engines a 2 hp and a 20 hp. Both turning at 3000, yet one has much more torque in foot- pounds. If the load only needs 10 lbs of torque the engine can push that load all day n never break into a sweat. Push an amp.past it's rated figure an get distortion.
I just brought a pair of Danlavy SC IV speaker's. These speakers are huge at 6 feet tall and deep too. I have them connected to a Pioneer SX1280 and a Pioneer SX-1980. They sound wonderful to me. Have you ever heard Dunlavy Speakers. They are supposed to be studio monitor speakers. They sound a lot like your option 2 speakers but on a huge watt receiver they really shine. This speakers can handle anything from classical to head banging rock and roll. It all sounds good!
I continue to learn from pretty much every one of your videos. You just saved me a receiver service as, after watching this, I just swapped out my speakers & surprise... volume control exactly where I wanted it! Thank you... from Canada
As a rule of mine is to match the amp watts to the power rating of my speakers...I run 4 polk s55 signature series & 2 two ch PA amps rated 200 watts as well as the speakers rating 200 watts...never have a issue with not enough sound 😅 Thanks Kevin...termiteaudio
Right on... I built a small (2+2W) Elekit tube amp with my son many years ago for his birthday. That thing can easily drive a pair of Focal/Chorus 706 to very listenable levels in a decent sized room. And it sounds quite nice too... people are too eager to put quantity above quality, especially these days it seems. Thanks again and regards, and best wishes for Dad.
Love the enthusiasm for the pieces you have collected. Best part of all of this is the joy of finding the perfect component to listen to the music. Ty for sharing.
That was a great video, I didn’t realize about the volume sweep really good info. You opened up my eyes as well as my ears after 40 years of collecting vintage audio thanks man.
Being someone who restores audio as a hobby, I get sooooooo tired of people thinking you need "100 watts" for background music. My personal keeper speakers are old school Arnie era Infinity Reference Standard 2.5's, which are a 4-ohm speaker that dips below that... I drive them with a classic Carver MX-130 receiver and the power meters just start to blink when playing them loud. I could drive them with a 10 W/Ch amp if it had very high current capability.
Back in the day, I had the opportunity to tour Phase Linear's factory in Seattle. They filled the factory floor with background music from one Phase Linear 400, wired to about a dozen speakers per channel. Extremely low impedance load, the VU meters were dancing, but the amplifier wasn't clipping. It absolutely blew my mind to see that. Knowing that most speakers are rated with a "nominal" impedance and their actual impedance drops below that at certain frequencies, the amplifier was probably looking at a load of less than 1/2 ohm at some frequencies.
I think these big watts people come from a car audio background. I remember having 200 watt or 50×4 decks for the car. There is no way they were that powerful.
Well said. The volume contour variations are a real problem too as many people (and manufacturers) use it as a 'My amp is louder and better than yours' BS.
Great comparison of low wattage and high wattage amps with relation to speaker efficiency. Higher wattage amplifiers can supply the current required (power = amps squared x resistance) to charge large filter caps in the power supply which need more current to initially charge. These large filter caps are there to store energy when immediate high current is required to drive drivers especially woofers in the lower db speakers.
Many years ago I ran my Yamaha CR-2020 (105 wpc) with a set of Magnepan MGII's. The Magnepan's are long gone but the Yamaha receiver has been rebuilt/recapped and is powering a very efficient pair of Vandersteen 1Ci+ speakers. I set the volume control to the 10 o'clock position and they are rocking! In addition I have my DBX 3BX Series II Dynamic Range Expander with Impact Restoration. Talk about a game changer! Great video Kevin!
Back around 1994 I had a 100 watt per channel Radio Shack receiver. My neighbor came over with his 50 watt per channel Onkyo and blew me away🙂. He had more bass and you could hear more tones in the music. Watts are watts and quality is quality!
Explains a lot. My VSX-1022-K & 935 have a much more liner volume curve than my old Kenwood vr6060. At first I was concerned, but the pioneers get louder and clearer past the halfway point👍🏾
Efficiency and headroom- thats what I want. Started using QSC power amps from 200-700 watts per channel for my home stereo just for the ability to run down to 2 ohms. Some speakers dip down to 3 ohms during normal use so these amps easily provide that current without any sacrifice in sound and dynamics. A lot of receivers could run into trouble at 4 ohms or below.
Alright Kevin..you chose my speakers of old..the Cerwin Vega..the same kind.I know these don't get there due with the audiophiles..but to each their own. Keep up the great work greatly appreciated this post !!!!!
Keep in mind that most 'audiophiles' have never heard a pair of Cerwin Vega's or Bose 901's, they just parrot each other and bang on about mains cables.
Thanks Kevin for another good informative video. My Living room system changes quite often and right now I'm enjoying using the preamp from my MA6100 to my Dynakit ST70 and man that is a awesome combo. I brought it up because the volume pot on the 6100 is a linear style pot ( i mean to say it doesn't jump quick) and I love it.
Hey Kevin! Thanks for posting this, as this is an important, although often misunderstood issue. For me, the watts issue is less about loudness, and more about dynamics and clarity. And, if I'm being perfectly honest it's more about current than it is about watts. I had a beautiful Yamaha receiver back in the early 80's, as my first foray into hi-fi. Though it was somewhat limited as far as input options go, it had a nice warm sound that I still miss to this day. It sounded wonderful with my efficient Dahlquist speakers, and it's 40 watts of output was more than enough to shake the room. However, when I came across a pair of Thiel speakers, which were a sealed acoustic suspension design, 4 ohm, and really tough to drive, the Yamaha just couldn't do them justice. Yes, it would play them, even to loud levels, but it didn't sound good. It was thin sounding, and the music had no life to it, even at low listening levels. Swapped the Yamaha for a 140 watt high current integrated, and the Thiel's woke up, and came alive! And for me, it was more about how clear and rich they now sounded at low volume, than the ability to blast out at full monty. Just my 2 cents...
This was a really great explanation of differences a d how it affects and is affected by the way gear is made. Never thought about volume pot taper. 😊Thanks!
I’m 71 and for the first time in my life I have more watts than I need! Driving a pair of Martin Logan Motion 60XTi with an EMOTIVA XPA-3 Gen 3. Love it. Great video. Thanks.
@@slyspy9819let us know what do you think about the Martin Logan Motion 60XTi. They can be found at a nice discount, I am very pleased with them. If I had money to spare, I would love to try the new SVS Titan.
I always enjoy your videos, especially these common sense videos. I've never had more than 70 watts per channel. Right now my main system is being driven by a 20 WPC Marantz 2220b with some very efficient Klipsch tower speakers and I can shake the house down. I had never thought of volume tapers but it makes total sense. I had a hard time driving them with my Harman Kardon 70 WPC receiver because all of the volume came on so strong at the very beginning of the volume sweep just like you said.
I think a lot of people believe that a 100-watt amp is putting out 100 watts as soon as it is turned on. It is more difficult to damage speakers by over-powering than by under-powering. At normal levels, you are using maybe 20 watts, depending on speaker sensitivity. The excess is for reproducing peaks to avoid clipping the note. A 20 watts nominal, a music peak may require 10 times this to not clip, so you would want 200 watts. It's similar to cars. A 400 hp car and a 100 hp car can both easily maintain 60 mph, but when you need to pass cars, the 400 hp will do it with much less stress than the weaker engine. For the same reason you don't drive with the accelerator on the floor, you shouldn't have your stereo volume all the way up.
My whole deal on Higher power "Watts" Recievers Amps is Clean power, not Loud, IMHO The Clean Power of the high Power units is what I look for, never have gone by the Volume knob position because you Could be Clipping at Half Volume, so for me it's all about keeping the Sound Clean and taking care of your Speakers and Amps!
Kevin your video on the AU 20000 talked me into purchasing, then your video on having a matching tuner to have a set led me to buy a TT 9900 tuner. So happy I bit the bullet, please don’t convince me to purchase anything else till it sounds like a must have.
Kevin. Keep up the great work that you are doing. You're videos are so informative. And all your freinds are chiming in on your 11 questions. That's way cool man.
I have a pair of 4 ohm speakers, the Pioneer amp puts out 82 watts continuous power into 4 ohms per channel. The speakers are low efficiency, making the wattage ideal, but has more than enough power to effectively balance the high's and low without been blasted out of your chair, (with the vintage equipment to match).
I listen to most of your videos through modern speakers (Jamo C601's) which are powered by a Sansui 2020 (circa 1976?), which is an 18 watt receiver I don't see getting a lot of love online, but it sounds good to my ears!
Can definitely vouch for the volume control difference between a 2220B and a 2270. Offhand, the SX737 seems to be somewhere in between- perhaps closer to the 2270. Great vid!
Excellent video! I inherited my Marantz 2238B so I had to find the right bookshelf speakers to match the receiver and meet my needs. The 1st set were Klipsch RP-160M followed by a set of JBL 4311B, both sets were pretty efficient but their ported design created a booming effect in my dwelling. I shifted gears and tried a set of ADS L570/2s and then a set of ADS L780/2s, the ADS are not as efficient as my Klipsch and JBL but I am better able to dial them in and they don't create that booming effect. I had fun sampling the different speakers and hearing the difference first hand.
I think it boils down to the efficiency of the speakers you are trying to power. Great video. I guess i knew a little more than I thought about sensitivity. Giggle
Kevin, excellent video as always! People must remember to consider the room size, speaker efficiency, listening distance, and power output of the device. If you double the amplifier from 100 to 200 watts, there is only a 3 dB increase in sound level (SPL). To double the SPL, you need to increase the amplifier by a magnitude of 10 times, ie. from 10 to 100 watts. There are many excellent smaller-wattage receivers and amplifiers that do a great job in a smaller room - with the right speakers.
As I mentioned on Your Discord for a question, many amps/receivers have variable loudness compensation based on the position of the volume. This can cause more (or less) boost depending on how much boost has been set for a particular volume location. (in some cases creating the use of the irreplaceable multi-(3-4)gang volume potentiometers that can sometimes render a unit not repairable). Indeed your video was interesting as I never thought how much that is also effected by the match up between the unit and the efficiency of the speakers. It makes me understand Yamaha's providing a variable boost control instead of building it into the volume control on some equipment.
Ohm my goodness, watts all this then?! 😁 OK, I'll get my coat! 😁 Seriously though, good video. Efficiency, frequency response, volume taper and input sensitivity make a huge impact on the perception of system power. It isn't always about power output and power handling. Another hugely overlooked specification is headroom vs output power. For a doubling of perceived volume, a tenfold increase in power is required. It takes a LOT of peak power to provide the headroom for loud transients in dynamic material, particularly with less efficient speakers.
Just an idea that maybe people would find interesting. How about doing a comparison with similar low wattage amps one class B and the second a Class A with a lower db efficiency speaker. I would definitely would be curious about the results.
Great video, I used to have a Technics SA 500 that would blow you away around 4. I now have a Marantz 2270 and I have to get up around 6 to 7 for that volume. Case in point of what you’re saying!
Great explanation. I have a newer Rotel Pre Amp, and the volume goes from 0-100, and it doesn't really open up till it reads 60 on the screen. I've heard from many folks that the speakers should be the first in building a system. Of course, when building my system, I did it ass backwards, lol.
Nice comparisons, I'm running my SX 780 with just a pair of older Bose bookshelf speakers, heck, who knows, maybe I've got something screwed up here. I'm buying some merch to support the channel.
Really like those technical videos. Contribute knowledge, explanations, and help to focus on what matters when buying and picking audio stuff. Keep'em going, please 😎
One of my best sounding amps is Kenwood ka 4002 with 18Wpc , I own also Technics Su g700 mk2 with 70wpc and for sure you can drive speakers eter but not necessarily sounds better . I have also Marantz 1070 with i beliwe 22wpc and bass is fantastic. My PioneerA-400 with 50wpc can really play loud. Now im playing with Muzishare x7 with 22wpc in triode mode and 45wpc in ultra liner modes and with my Monitor audio gold gs60(91db) somedays 20Wpc is just enough. You wont get big bass from it but pure quality of sound especially midrange and upper frequencys. Thank you
Man! This helped me so much. I was trying to choose between the new 85th Wharfedale Linton vs Used/vintage Klipsch KC4's - I had the intuition that the more efficient Klipsch's would make it harder to adjust the volume on my Marantz 2230 - I went for the Lintons 90db and the 2230 pair incredibly well giving me different options in the volume dial. Your video really demystified the reasoning of my intuition. Thank you!
On the great power debate .... Most people want way more power than they actually need. Over the years of measuring stuff, my best estimate is that most listening (short of the audiophile's ear bleed festivals) actually happens at less than 5 watts.
McIntosh ML-2C pair bought new in 1975. I have had a number of amps utilized over the years. Considering my speakers are exactly double the speakers you demonstrated, I prefer the higher wattage. If you want the excellent transient response with BIG speakers, you are going to need some power. After 49 years with my speakers, I will say they NEED 100 watts minimum. 200 definingly sounds crisper and more delicate. Currently running MC-2105 after my son blew up our 360 watt Phase Linear. A real shame. I sounded excellent at any volume.
They used to say in racing “there is no for cubic inches”……so I went small block and played the weight to horsepower ratio gain…..and revved it up. 😂😂😂. Sounds like the same principle. More 😂😂😂. My Kenwood 700C has the 3 gain setting…..very useful for low level listening and matching components. Thanks …great explanation and test.
Outstanding The Key 🔑 Word is Taper Which is Correct …..Audio Taper Is a Round Potentiometer or Short (Pot) If You Look At Some Marantz For Example The Pre/Amps and Amps They Have a Linear Taper or Slide Ether Vertical or Horizontal or Like a Mixing Board That Refers To Faders Yet They Are Also Linear Taper This Is So The End User Can See At a Glance Where Their Volume Level Is In Relation To The Other Channels….. I Know I Went Off Subject Yet Once You Used The Word Taper That Got My Attention Thanks Kevin You Did It Again
Really cool video 👍 After this one, perhaps a discussion about current and how the current of your receiver or amp needs to be considered is in order. And why some vintage gear with the same wattage rating can be more powerful than one another or vice versa.
Here's some watts for ya. I had minty Cerwin Vega MX-400. Efficiency of 105db. I hooked up my 3/4 watt 1626 Darling tube amplifier. I didn't put a decibel meter on it but was impressed by how good they sounded. When I sold the Cerwins I had that amp hooked up for demonstration. I asked the buyer how many watts is the amp. He guessed about 50 per channel. Took me a lot convincing that it was only 3/4 per channel.
Outstanding content, and I really learned something----again! I do have a complaint however: You didn't let us listen to the music long enough; just as I was getting into it, you stopped it. LOL! I am moving in a few days and my system is broken down into containers. Thank you again, Kevin, for cluing me in!
Great videos always. There will always be a certain group of people that have to have the most powerful amplifier made on the planet, but I think it's a waste of money and not good for your eardrums..lol I'm more than happy with my Pioneer SX 780. Anything turned up past 10 watts on my Polk Towers will have my neighbor's pounding on my door..lol Years ago back when I had my large Acoustic Research studio monitor floor speakers, those needed my big Onkyo amp receiver to power them
That's interesting. I have a Pioneer SX-838 and an SX-3900. The 3900 is more than twice the power of the 838 but the volume pot requires more movement than the Pioneer to acheive the same volume. Hence, yes, it seemed that the 3900 was not as powerful, but that is NOT the case. Same is true on some other equipment so this is good info. Thanks! And yes, the 50 watt Pioneer can power most speakers. I also have a 35 watt JVC receiver that seems WAY more powerful than 35 watts x 2! It has a very aggreesive volume control. You can hardly go to 9 o'clock before you have to leave the room, lol!
Having a more spaced out volume control is better. Being able to really customize the level for the moment should be ideal for anyone. I have a Sony TA-3650 that sounds terrific, but most of the time the difference between two ticks of the volume knob is that between too soft and too loud. There's a muting switch, but it loses all its punch when you flip it.
I recently did a full recap (electrolytics only) job (and a few transistors) on my Pioneer SX-780. Damn what a difference it made, but it also made a huge difference in the volume levels I once stuck with because they were right where I wanted them for perfect sound. For movies, I once ran the volume control at 10 o'clock and for music, around 7 o'clock. Changing all the capacitors completely changed this because it now has better dynamic range, but I have to run the volume knob a bit higher for both conditions. I also had to reduce both the treble and bass controls from where they originally were. Interestingly enough, out of the 47 caps I replaced, only 7 were within 15% tolerance. WOW!
My Hitachi SR-804 is just starting to get loud at the twelve o'clock mark and my ears give up at 2 o'clock level. Way different from my SX-650 or Marantz 1090 and 2252B. Thanks for 'splainin'.
I know. My system is late 70's to 1990. I just don't hear anything out there that sounds better. I have 3 pairs of speakers for different uses. I love my 1978 ESS book shelfs. Looking forward to part 2.
I use 250 watts for headphones.....its not about how loud they can get.. its how the amp handles the input.... I don't ever have to worry about the amp clipping... bass is more controlled.. highs perfect and everything else well balanced.... two mono blocks.. left and right... works very well..
Great video. My SX 424 at 13 watts has the same kind of volume ramp. It is just barely at 9 O'clock setting and it's loud enough without being obnoxious through 89db sensitivity speakers. I've had speakers over the years that needed an 11 o'clock volume setting to get the same perceived volume. Thanks, Kevin.
Excellent! In 50 years in the hobby I have only had 1 speaker that really needed watts to sing (still have them) kind of a cult speaker the Dahlquist DQ-10 they went through a couple owners till I got them. I had a huge Sound craftsman amp that was what they wanted.
Great speaker the DQ10. but yes, they need power. Used to run mine on an SX1980 and sometimes a Harman Kardon Citation 16. One of the best speakers I've heard and I wish I'd kept them.
@@analoglooney Thank for the comment, Funny I have I guess you would say the opposite of the watt issue the Altec Model 19's couple watts all they need. Looking at the prices they go for these days I guess the single end folks want them. Then to round out this hobby a pair of Wharfdale WD-90's I think not moving them 4 way system. Over 50 years in this fun but crazy hobby, you would not believe all the stuff I have
"Make the coffin bigger", classic. Good master class on power matching. The entire linear/log/attention discussion very informative. Thanks Skylabs!
Thanks, Craig!
Having been an audio technician for more than 50 years, I've found that explaining that doubling amplifier power only gives one a 3db increase in SPL. Large amps on efficient speakers have the feature of providing more headroom for loud passages, ensuring fewer square waves are delivered to the speakers, can be helpful.
I was in the same boat for so long. More watts = More better.
Then I bought a second hand NAD 7020e receiver, rated at a whopping 20w/ch, and was blown away at how it would punch way above its weight class. It really made me rethink what I thought I knew about power ratings.
A couple of basic guidelines ....
The minimum obvious change in volume most people can hear is 3db ... but increasing levels by 3db requires twice as much power.
The "twice as loud" point most people talk about is actually +10db ... which requires 10 times the power.
Average living room levels are about 70dba ... which most often requires only 2 or 3 watts of average power.
With 10db of peak headroom that 70dba can easily be accomodated by a 20 watt/ch amplifier.
Hey Brother! This is from the 64 year old Black man O.G and music loving audiophile( my full title🤣). Just a comment or two. It's easy to understand. The more efficient the speakers the less watts you need. The reverse is true if you have something like Maggies, then you will need all the watts you can get!! I think also speakers with a big sound stage can seem louder than those that project smaller. Amplifier headroom plays a big part too. One of the amplifiers I have, a classic Hafler 120a is 60 watts, but has a dynamic output in excess of 110 watts. Let's not forget preamplifier output sensitivity!
Automotive industry calls it “tip in”. It’s how fast the car reacts when accelerator is pushed. Some sensitive, some not. You really feel it when driving something the first time. Could be a good reference for explaining to customers.
I have a sensitive accelerator on my short wheelbase 2007 Tundra, I purposely set the truck up to drive as street sport truck so it suits me but others with the same accelerator complain about it.
Good call
@@kevinyoung2431 Our old Cadillac from the early 70's had a quadrajet carb. Car seemed weak and sluggish even when gas was pressed well over 1/2 way, BUT the last 1/3rd? Yep, it poured on the coal! Move to a large 2bbl now. We had a 1967 Impala w/a 289. Just tap the gas and it would almost jump, but, get it up to highway speed and start pressing it down to the floor, not a whole lot of anything. Kinda like some volume controls. Wimpy big box receivers had a touchy pot, huge change of volume till 1/2 way (12 O'Clock), after that, little change.
@@curtchase3730 283
Another reason I love the variable loudness knob on my Yamaha receivers. Between the volume knob and the loudness knob you can always find the perfect sound level.
100%
Nice explanation. While explaining this to my son I showed him just what 1WPC (as per my amps meter) really sounds like. A lot louder than he expected.
Pretty impressive what a few watts can do. Thanks
Volume taper is something that most do not comprehend. I have a Pass Labs XP 32 and it has a very very long taper which is extremely useful for different types of speakers. Excellent explanation of watts vs volume control and actual output levels. Very very educational.
Thoroughly enjoyed this weekly installment. I think years ago, when I was working at Franklin Music, the manufacturers had their "Tim the Tool Man" moment, long before television show -- MORE POWER !!! Speaker manufacturers were trying to keep up with the "Watts Guys". They were having to build stuff that could actually handle the current. I am in complete agreement that I think right now, fifty watts IS probably a really good sweet spot. All of the vintage stuff that I have been picking up, hits right around that sweet spot. Enjoyed this. Thanks ! Rip
Thank you, Rip
100% Accurate! I’ve been restoring advising people regarding audio for years. They never quite understand the logarithmic taper. Matching the speakers and amplifier is very important.
It's a thing!
First-time I've heard of it. All the info I've been studying for last 3 yrs, never came up. Explains why a lower powered amp seems louder than some of the higher end units. My sx 750 seems to be more linear and it's a mid grade reciever, but man my sx 737 gets loud very quickly. Between 9 and 10 o'clock.
I’ve been playing with stereo gear for a long time and this is the best explanation I’ve ever heard. Keep up the great work!
Thank you so much, Dan. Really appreciate it!
I find 60 watt and larger amps generally have more power reserve when hitting large bass notes and do not bog down like some of the lower wattage ones ,they may have better damping also.
This is a key statement that should never be overlooked, especially if you are a fan of full spectrum. This is why huge transformers and caps matter. And I suspect this is really the diff Kevin was speaking of at the end but not stating it.
Great perspective on wattage Kevin! On my Sansui 5050 (30 WPC) connected to my Klipsch Heresy III's (99db efficiency); once you turn the volume past the 9 o'clock position, you get into eardrum shattering volume levels!
I believe it!
I don't think my light bulb is working any more! Great video my friend.
Try an LED, they last longer :) Thanks Ed!
I remember a car throttle linkage that was intentionally designed to give you a very non-linear response. The cable-operated pulley on the throttle was oval shaped, the first inch of your foot on the pedal opened the throttle almost half way, then it opened much more slowly. Made the engine feel very responsive, when in face it was a throttle body injected pushrod 4 cylinder.
In 1976, I bought a 15 WPC Technics Tuner/Amp and used it to make by ears bleed from vinyl, through CDs and then finally powering a home theater system. It finally gave up the ghost in 2012 but I loved that thing. Yes, I've been blown away by the looks and the depth of sound from the premium systems but, I had all I needed at 15 watts. The 15 watt amp here through the high efficiency speakers sounded fantastic. If I'm sitting in my basement mancave and I want to turn it up to 11, it better be no more than 25 watts or I'd have to move out. And frankly, who wants to listen to music so loud you can barely hear yourself talk? Great experience to go to a bar that's so loud you need to stand a foot away from a girl you're trying to talk to and you wind up spitting all over her face. No thanks.
This is a good explanation video. Not to technical, but simply explained that you can see the logic of it. Where were you 30 years ago when I was caught up in the More Watts era thinking.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
- Albert Einstein
Great explanation/demonstration. Thanks
Great video! This information should be recommended viewing for anyone getting into our hobby. 👍👍👍
That Au of yours is my holy grail, Sansui always has such an inviting sound with power . I’ll tell you from experience, my Sui 5050 comes on fast compared to my 9090db. My 9090 comes alive at half way.
I am a bit of a hifi junky; I love old Sansuis, Pioneers and Marantz. I have built plenty of big wattage systems. But I got a project that use to belong to my grand father many years ago. It is a Pioneer SX-535; it came with bad transistors in the amplification section and noisy transistors in the pre-amp. I decided lets do a full restoration on this guy after it sat in an attic for the better part of 30 years; with a note that said it was damaging speakers. When I completed the work I paired it with a pair of new Klipsch book shelf speakers that were really efficient. For only have 20 watts a channel it sure can punch pretty hard. Sounds great in the dinning room. I am from the school of having a few more watts than you need is never a bad thing; but there is certainly more to the sound like frequency response and slew rate. I like the idea of being able to work an amp and not stress it out.
RIGHT! If it has the beef you can play it as u want without clipping or taking off the top.of the audio wave which sort of ends up as D.C.
I guess it could be likened to engines a 2 hp and a 20 hp.
Both turning at 3000, yet one has much more torque in foot- pounds. If the load only needs 10 lbs of torque the engine can push that load all day n never break into a sweat. Push an amp.past it's rated figure an get distortion.
I just brought a pair of Danlavy SC IV speaker's. These speakers are huge at 6 feet tall and deep too. I have them connected to a Pioneer SX1280 and a Pioneer SX-1980. They sound wonderful to me. Have you ever heard Dunlavy Speakers. They are supposed to be studio monitor speakers. They sound a lot like your option 2 speakers but on a huge watt receiver they really shine. This speakers can handle anything from classical to head banging rock and roll. It all sounds good!
I continue to learn from pretty much every one of your videos. You just saved me a receiver service as, after watching this, I just swapped out my speakers & surprise... volume control exactly where I wanted it! Thank you... from Canada
Glad to help
As a rule of mine is to match the amp watts to the power rating of my speakers...I run 4 polk s55 signature series & 2 two ch PA amps rated 200 watts as well as the speakers rating 200 watts...never have a issue with not enough sound 😅 Thanks Kevin...termiteaudio
Right on... I built a small (2+2W) Elekit tube amp with my son many years ago for his birthday. That thing can easily drive a pair of Focal/Chorus 706 to very listenable levels in a decent sized room. And it sounds quite nice too... people are too eager to put quantity above quality, especially these days it seems.
Thanks again and regards, and best wishes for Dad.
This answers my question of why my 200 watt McIntosh amp doesn’t shatter my windows at 12:00 on the volume dial.
You need the right speakers at the right frequency. You need to try harder. Don't forget the dustpan and broom.
Love the enthusiasm for the pieces you have collected. Best part of all of this is the joy of finding the perfect component to listen to the music. Ty for sharing.
Thanks!
very good explanation without going way out in the tall grass where the snakes reside.
Thanks!
That was a great video, I didn’t realize about the volume sweep really good info. You opened up my eyes as well as my ears after 40 years of collecting vintage audio thanks man.
Glad you enjoyed!
Being someone who restores audio as a hobby, I get sooooooo tired of people thinking you need "100 watts" for background music. My personal keeper speakers are old school Arnie era Infinity Reference Standard 2.5's, which are a 4-ohm speaker that dips below that... I drive them with a classic Carver MX-130 receiver and the power meters just start to blink when playing them loud. I could drive them with a 10 W/Ch amp if it had very high current capability.
Back in the day, I had the opportunity to tour Phase Linear's factory in Seattle. They filled the factory floor with background music from one Phase Linear 400, wired to about a dozen speakers per channel. Extremely low impedance load, the VU meters were dancing, but the amplifier wasn't clipping. It absolutely blew my mind to see that. Knowing that most speakers are rated with a "nominal" impedance and their actual impedance drops below that at certain frequencies, the amplifier was probably looking at a load of less than 1/2 ohm at some frequencies.
I think these big watts people come from a car audio background. I remember having 200 watt or 50×4 decks for the car. There is no way they were that powerful.
Excellent episode. Never thought about using the muting attenuator to stretch that volume range. Thanks!
Me either.
Such a great feature!
Well said. The volume contour variations are a real problem too as many people (and manufacturers) use it as a 'My amp is louder and better than yours' BS.
Great comparison of low wattage and high wattage amps with relation to speaker efficiency. Higher wattage amplifiers can supply the current required (power = amps squared x resistance) to charge large filter caps in the power supply which need more current to initially charge. These large filter caps are there to store energy when immediate high current is required to drive drivers especially woofers in the lower db speakers.
WELL DONE K-MAN!!!! Now that’s the kind of content I’m talking about. Excellent bro, ty & plz keep it up. Oh, & congrats on your new printer too.
Great lesson for the day !!! 👍👍👍
Many years ago I ran my Yamaha CR-2020 (105 wpc) with a set of Magnepan MGII's. The Magnepan's are long gone but the Yamaha receiver has been rebuilt/recapped and is powering a very efficient pair of Vandersteen 1Ci+ speakers. I set the volume control to the 10 o'clock position and they are rocking! In addition I have my DBX 3BX Series II Dynamic Range Expander with Impact Restoration. Talk about a game changer! Great video Kevin!
The low watt Marantz is some of my favorite over the higher watt. I own both. Try a Marantz 2215b. Sounds amazing
Back around 1994 I had a 100 watt per channel Radio Shack receiver. My neighbor came over with his 50 watt per channel Onkyo and blew me away🙂. He had more bass and you could hear more tones in the music. Watts are watts and quality is quality!
Explains a lot. My VSX-1022-K & 935 have a much more liner volume curve than my old Kenwood vr6060. At first I was concerned, but the pioneers get louder and clearer past the halfway point👍🏾
Efficiency and headroom- thats what I want. Started using QSC power amps from 200-700 watts per channel for my home stereo just for the ability to run down to 2 ohms. Some speakers dip down to 3 ohms during normal use so these amps easily provide that current without any sacrifice in sound and dynamics. A lot of receivers could run into trouble at 4 ohms or below.
I have a nice collection of Renkus-Heinz pro gear to play with.
Alright Kevin..you chose my speakers of old..the Cerwin Vega..the same kind.I know these don't get there due with the audiophiles..but to each their own. Keep up the great work greatly appreciated this post !!!!!
Keep in mind that most 'audiophiles' have never heard a pair of Cerwin Vega's or Bose 901's, they just parrot each other and bang on about mains cables.
My god that Sansui is sexy!!
Be prepared to pay a hefty premium for that sucker...IF you find one.
NFS =)
Thanks Kevin for another good informative video. My Living room system changes quite often and right now I'm enjoying using the preamp from my MA6100 to my Dynakit ST70 and man that is a awesome combo. I brought it up because the volume pot on the 6100 is a linear style pot ( i mean to say it doesn't jump quick) and I love it.
Hey Kevin! Thanks for posting this, as this is an important, although often misunderstood issue. For me, the watts issue is less about loudness, and more about dynamics and clarity. And, if I'm being perfectly honest it's more about current than it is about watts. I had a beautiful Yamaha receiver back in the early 80's, as my first foray into hi-fi. Though it was somewhat limited as far as input options go, it had a nice warm sound that I still miss to this day. It sounded wonderful with my efficient Dahlquist speakers, and it's 40 watts of output was more than enough to shake the room. However, when I came across a pair of Thiel speakers, which were a sealed acoustic suspension design, 4 ohm, and really tough to drive, the Yamaha just couldn't do them justice. Yes, it would play them, even to loud levels, but it didn't sound good. It was thin sounding, and the music had no life to it, even at low listening levels. Swapped the Yamaha for a 140 watt high current integrated, and the Thiel's woke up, and came alive! And for me, it was more about how clear and rich they now sounded at low volume, than the ability to blast out at full monty. Just my 2 cents...
I agree, some speakers absolutely need current to wake up.
This was a really great explanation of differences a d how it affects and is affected by the way gear is made. Never thought about volume pot taper. 😊Thanks!
I’m 71 and for the first time in my life I have more watts than I need! Driving a pair of Martin Logan Motion 60XTi with an EMOTIVA XPA-3 Gen 3. Love it. Great video. Thanks.
I'm going to pick up a pair of those speakers today. I have the 40s and I'm hoping these are better
@@slyspy9819let us know what do you think about the Martin Logan Motion 60XTi. They can be found at a nice discount, I am very pleased with them.
If I had money to spare, I would love to try the new SVS Titan.
I always enjoy your videos, especially these common sense videos. I've never had more than 70 watts per channel. Right now my main system is being driven by a 20 WPC Marantz 2220b with some very efficient Klipsch tower speakers and I can shake the house down. I had never thought of volume tapers but it makes total sense. I had a hard time driving them with my Harman Kardon 70 WPC receiver because all of the volume came on so strong at the very beginning of the volume sweep just like you said.
Great video! It's not always easy to come up with new topics but you have the knack for it!
thanks :)
I think a lot of people believe that a 100-watt amp is putting out 100 watts as soon as it is turned on. It is more difficult to damage speakers by over-powering than by under-powering. At normal levels, you are using maybe 20 watts, depending on speaker sensitivity. The excess is for reproducing peaks to avoid clipping the note.
A 20 watts nominal, a music peak may require 10 times this to not clip, so you would want 200 watts.
It's similar to cars. A 400 hp car and a 100 hp car can both easily maintain 60 mph, but when you need to pass cars, the 400 hp will do it with much less stress than the weaker engine. For the same reason you don't drive with the accelerator on the floor, you shouldn't have your stereo volume all the way up.
GREAT point. Clipping was totally left out of the video.
My whole deal on Higher power "Watts" Recievers Amps is Clean power, not Loud, IMHO The Clean Power of the high Power units is what I look for, never have gone by the Volume knob position because you Could be Clipping at Half Volume, so for me it's all about keeping the Sound Clean and taking care of your Speakers and Amps!
Excellent point!
Kevin your video on the AU 20000 talked me into purchasing, then your video on having a matching tuner to have a set led me to buy a TT 9900 tuner. So happy I bit the bullet, please don’t convince me to purchase anything else till it sounds like a must have.
Kevin. Keep up the great work that you are doing. You're videos are so informative. And all your freinds are chiming in on your 11 questions. That's way cool man.
Will do!
That was so informative and makes sense when describe in a simple way, please dome more of the educational films
As always, excellent Kevin. My kiddo is now hooked on vintage 2 channel, so I'll be ordering more shirts. For both of us
I had an SX450 for years and it was just a superb unit. I upgraded to a Rotel RA01 through some two way Paradigms... a great set up.
It's a real pleasure to listen and watch your video's thank you,
Thank you
I have a pair of 4 ohm speakers, the Pioneer amp puts out 82 watts continuous power into 4 ohms per channel. The speakers are low efficiency, making the wattage ideal, but has more than enough power to effectively balance the high's and low without been blasted out of your chair, (with the vintage equipment to match).
I listen to most of your videos through modern speakers (Jamo C601's) which are powered by a Sansui 2020 (circa 1976?), which is an 18 watt receiver I don't see getting a lot of love online, but it sounds good to my ears!
Can definitely vouch for the volume control difference between a 2220B and a 2270. Offhand, the SX737 seems to be somewhere in between- perhaps closer to the 2270.
Great vid!
Yep. learned something … bulb lit. Thanks! Great video.
Glad to hear it!
Excellent video!
I inherited my Marantz 2238B so I had to find the right bookshelf speakers to match the receiver and meet my needs. The 1st set were Klipsch RP-160M followed by a set of JBL 4311B, both sets were pretty efficient but their ported design created a booming effect in my dwelling. I shifted gears and tried a set of ADS L570/2s and then a set of ADS L780/2s, the ADS are not as efficient as my Klipsch and JBL but I am better able to dial them in and they don't create that booming effect. I had fun sampling the different speakers and hearing the difference first hand.
I think it boils down to the efficiency of the speakers you are trying to power. Great video. I guess i knew a little more than I thought about sensitivity. Giggle
Kevin, excellent video as always! People must remember to consider the room size, speaker efficiency, listening distance, and power output of the device. If you double the amplifier from 100 to 200 watts, there is only a 3 dB increase in sound level (SPL). To double the SPL, you need to increase the amplifier by a magnitude of 10 times, ie. from 10 to 100 watts. There are many excellent smaller-wattage receivers and amplifiers that do a great job in a smaller room - with the right speakers.
Nice! I learned something. Thank you brother.
Glad to help
As I mentioned on Your Discord for a question, many amps/receivers have variable loudness compensation based on the position of the volume. This can cause more (or less) boost depending on how much boost has been set for a particular volume location. (in some cases creating the use of the irreplaceable multi-(3-4)gang volume potentiometers that can sometimes render a unit not repairable). Indeed your video was interesting as I never thought how much that is also effected by the match up between the unit and the efficiency of the speakers. It makes me understand Yamaha's providing a variable boost control instead of building it into the volume control on some equipment.
Ohm my goodness, watts all this then?! 😁
OK, I'll get my coat! 😁
Seriously though, good video. Efficiency, frequency response, volume taper and input sensitivity make a huge impact on the perception of system power. It isn't always about power output and power handling.
Another hugely overlooked specification is headroom vs output power. For a doubling of perceived volume, a tenfold increase in power is required. It takes a LOT of peak power to provide the headroom for loud transients in dynamic material, particularly with less efficient speakers.
Just an idea that maybe people would find interesting. How about doing a comparison with similar low wattage amps one class B and the second a Class A with a lower db efficiency speaker. I would definitely would be curious about the results.
Great video, I used to have a Technics SA 500 that would blow you away around 4. I now have a Marantz 2270 and I have to get up around 6 to 7 for that volume. Case in point of what you’re saying!
Great video. Thanks. I’m an old school Silver face ( sx 1250) but I love the look of your Sansui.
That was great information. best explanation ive heard on this topic. Thank you
Awesome, thank you!
Great explanation. I have a newer Rotel Pre Amp, and the volume goes from 0-100, and it doesn't really open up till it reads 60 on the screen.
I've heard from many folks that the speakers should be the first in building a system. Of course, when building my system, I did it ass backwards, lol.
Nice comparisons, I'm running my SX 780 with just a pair of older Bose bookshelf speakers, heck, who knows, maybe I've got something screwed up here. I'm buying some merch to support the channel.
Excellent demonstration and explanations. Thank you very much.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Really like those technical videos. Contribute knowledge, explanations, and help to focus on what matters when buying and picking audio stuff. Keep'em going, please 😎
Thanks!
One of my best sounding amps is Kenwood ka 4002 with 18Wpc , I own also Technics Su g700 mk2 with 70wpc and for sure you can drive speakers eter but not necessarily sounds better . I have also Marantz 1070 with i beliwe 22wpc and bass is fantastic. My PioneerA-400 with 50wpc can really play loud. Now im playing with Muzishare x7 with 22wpc in triode mode and 45wpc in ultra liner modes and with my Monitor audio gold gs60(91db) somedays 20Wpc is just enough. You wont get big bass from it but pure quality of sound especially midrange and upper frequencys. Thank you
Man! This helped me so much. I was trying to choose between the new 85th Wharfedale Linton vs Used/vintage Klipsch KC4's - I had the intuition that the more efficient Klipsch's would make it harder to adjust the volume on my Marantz 2230 - I went for the Lintons 90db and the 2230 pair incredibly well giving me different options in the volume dial. Your video really demystified the reasoning of my intuition. Thank you!
Good call on the Lintons
@@skylabsaudio thanks and love your channel - the new t-shirts are looking nice!
On the great power debate .... Most people want way more power than they actually need.
Over the years of measuring stuff, my best estimate is that most listening (short of the audiophile's ear bleed festivals) actually happens at less than 5 watts.
McIntosh ML-2C pair bought new in 1975. I have had a number of amps utilized over the years. Considering my speakers are exactly double the speakers you demonstrated, I prefer the higher wattage.
If you want the excellent transient response with BIG speakers, you are going to need some power. After 49 years with my speakers, I will say they NEED 100 watts minimum. 200 definingly sounds crisper and more delicate.
Currently running MC-2105 after my son blew up our 360 watt Phase Linear. A real shame. I sounded excellent at any volume.
That was very informative, I never knew this or why the db pass, really good info, thanks again
"Watts up Doc?"
They used to say in racing “there is no for cubic inches”……so I went small block and played the weight to horsepower ratio gain…..and revved it up. 😂😂😂. Sounds like the same principle. More 😂😂😂. My Kenwood 700C has the 3 gain setting…..very useful for low level listening and matching components. Thanks …great explanation and test.
Outstanding
The Key 🔑 Word is
Taper Which is Correct
…..Audio Taper
Is a Round Potentiometer or Short (Pot)
If You Look At Some
Marantz For Example
The Pre/Amps and Amps
They Have a Linear Taper
or Slide Ether Vertical or Horizontal or Like a Mixing Board That Refers To Faders Yet They Are Also
Linear Taper This Is So
The End User Can See At a Glance Where Their Volume Level Is In Relation To The Other Channels…..
I Know I Went Off Subject
Yet Once You Used The Word Taper That Got My
Attention
Thanks Kevin You Did It Again
Thanks!
Really cool video 👍
After this one, perhaps a discussion about current and how the current of your receiver or amp needs to be considered is in order. And why some vintage gear with the same wattage rating can be more powerful than one another or vice versa.
Here's some watts for ya. I had minty Cerwin Vega MX-400. Efficiency of 105db. I hooked up my 3/4 watt 1626 Darling tube amplifier. I didn't put a decibel meter on it but was impressed by how good they sounded. When I sold the Cerwins I had that amp hooked up for demonstration. I asked the buyer how many watts is the amp. He guessed about 50 per channel. Took me a lot convincing that it was only 3/4 per channel.
3 or 4 or ¾?
@@ShazeemKhan 3/4 watt 1626 Darling tube amplifier. Google it.
Outstanding content, and I really learned something----again! I do have a complaint however: You didn't let us listen to the music long enough; just as I was getting into it, you stopped it. LOL! I am moving in a few days and my system is broken down into containers. Thank you again, Kevin, for cluing me in!
Yeah, sorry. Try to provide enough of the song without people clicking off. Thanks for the comment and feedback.
@@skylabsaudio It wasn't REALLY a complaint. As far as your channel--I have no actual complaints.
Great videos always.
There will always be a certain group of people that have to have the most powerful amplifier made on the planet, but I think it's a waste of money and not good for your eardrums..lol
I'm more than happy with my Pioneer SX 780. Anything turned up past 10 watts on my Polk Towers will have my neighbor's pounding on my door..lol
Years ago back when I had my large Acoustic Research studio monitor floor speakers, those needed my big Onkyo amp receiver to power them
I'm with ya. The SX780 is the sweet spot. Plenty of power for most people and most speakers.
That was another fun one Kevin 👍🏼
Love this video! very informative and really important. Thanks guys
That's interesting. I have a Pioneer SX-838 and an SX-3900. The 3900 is more than twice the power of the 838 but the volume pot requires more movement than the Pioneer to acheive the same volume. Hence, yes, it seemed that the 3900 was not as powerful, but that is NOT the case.
Same is true on some other equipment so this is good info. Thanks!
And yes, the 50 watt Pioneer can power most speakers. I also have a 35 watt JVC receiver that seems WAY more powerful than 35 watts x 2! It has a very aggreesive volume control. You can hardly go to 9 o'clock before you have to leave the room, lol!
Having a more spaced out volume control is better. Being able to really customize the level for the moment should be ideal for anyone. I have a Sony TA-3650 that sounds terrific, but most of the time the difference between two ticks of the volume knob is that between too soft and too loud. There's a muting switch, but it loses all its punch when you flip it.
I recently did a full recap (electrolytics only) job (and a few transistors) on my Pioneer SX-780. Damn what a difference it made, but it also made a huge difference in the volume levels I once stuck with because they were right where I wanted them for perfect sound. For movies, I once ran the volume control at 10 o'clock and for music, around 7 o'clock. Changing all the capacitors completely changed this because it now has better dynamic range, but I have to run the volume knob a bit higher for both conditions. I also had to reduce both the treble and bass controls from where they originally were. Interestingly enough, out of the 47 caps I replaced, only 7 were within 15% tolerance. WOW!
My Hitachi SR-804 is just starting to get loud at the twelve o'clock mark and my ears give up at 2 o'clock level. Way different from my SX-650 or Marantz 1090 and 2252B. Thanks for 'splainin'.
I know. My system is late 70's to 1990. I just don't hear anything out there that sounds better. I have 3 pairs of speakers for different uses. I love my 1978 ESS book shelfs. Looking forward to part 2.
I use 250 watts for headphones.....its not about how loud they can get.. its how the amp handles the input.... I don't ever have to worry about the amp clipping... bass is more controlled.. highs perfect and everything else well balanced.... two mono blocks.. left and right... works very well..
*Looks over at SX-450 on shelf and smiles. My SX-850 definitely has trouble dialing in for listening under around 3w maybe.
Great video, Kevin.
Know how ya feel. We may need to have our mortal remains interred in the great pyramids of Giza.
I like your presentation, I learned alot about linear terms.👍
Great video. My SX 424 at 13 watts has the same kind of volume ramp. It is just barely at 9 O'clock setting and it's loud enough without being obnoxious through 89db sensitivity speakers. I've had speakers over the years that needed an 11 o'clock volume setting to get the same perceived volume. Thanks, Kevin.
That's it right there
That was very informative
Excellent! In 50 years in the hobby I have only had 1 speaker that really needed watts to sing (still have them) kind of a cult speaker the Dahlquist DQ-10 they went through a couple owners till I got them. I had a huge Sound craftsman amp that was what they wanted.
Love the DQ10s. Agree, they need some juice
Great speaker the DQ10. but yes, they need power. Used to run mine on an SX1980 and sometimes a Harman Kardon Citation 16. One of the best speakers I've heard and I wish I'd kept them.
@@analoglooney Thank for the comment, Funny I have I guess you would say the opposite of the watt issue the Altec Model 19's couple watts all they need. Looking at the prices they go for these days I guess the single end folks want them. Then to round out this hobby a pair of Wharfdale WD-90's I think not moving them 4 way system. Over 50 years in this fun but crazy hobby, you would not believe all the stuff I have