I know this was just released, and I’m currently watching, but I just wanted to share a comment early in hopes that you’d see it - thank you for sharing your knowledge and opinions on this stuff. We definitely need more people to take the gaming industry more seriously. It’s a MASSIVE industry and has changed the way the modern world consumes content in a drastic way but we have yet to really organize it like we have some of the other major industries in the world. Thanks for the great content and cheers!
To be honest idk if it can be just as easy of a fix as ppl need to "get better" I say this because in the gaming industry the age range and mental processing range is so big. Also I would say half of the gaming industry is really just there to have fun and use this as an escape so they do not want to talk about or focus on anything that would be considered to be serious. Because they themselves either one do not feel like they are really apart of the industry or 2 they feel like whatever they have to say will in the end not mean or affect anything in the overall picture.
I feel like it has a LOT to do with advertisers ONLY looking at numbers and not the person they are working with. It should be seen as an entire package.
See a lot of comments saying this only affects creators and esports and not games as a whole. Very untrue and a dangerous thought process of the industry is to continue growth. As was stated in the beginning this is a very new industry. Roughly 30+ years is still infant stage for a “industry”. What gaming was like 15 years ago is vastly different then what we have now. The curve of explosive growth for gaming kicked off when esports was becoming more popular and content creators were promoting games by allowing you to get interested in a game before you bought it, sometimes before it even came out. People are saying the money that esports and content creation bring in to the industry is minuscule compared to how much it makes outside of these two components, but that growth in money come hand in hand. The bigger twitch became and the bigger esports became, the more games were able to reach larger audiences and make more sales. Why do you think companies will pay creators to show off their games early or to promote it. Why do you think Valorant had esport tournaments before the game even came out of beta. If we undermine the repercussions of what will happen when these 2 components of the industry start failing, it’ll be to late.
Devin, a lot of what you're describing is not only isolated to the gaming industry at the moment but a lot of the tech industry as well. Its just hidden better due to very few companies being in the positive cash wise.
What is he considering "game industry" besides Devs and Publishers ? ( He says streamers , youtubers and gaming industry . But also says Devs and Publishers get money by game sales , so what's the rest of gaming industry ? ) To be quite sincere , I just left thinking : ruin the gaming industry as a product and saving it as an art . I never saw an expressive AD in game (besides AMD or Nvidia at the start of a game screen). Game industry will stagnate , so what ? I liked it more in 2012, 2008 , where it was a more nich driven . The more and more gaming tries to appel for everyone the less it appels for "OG gamers" . If this means we are not getting a new Assassin's Creed every year , loot boxes , mobile games , 10 thousand battle royale games every year . It could only be a great thing for me .
This video confuses me. When Devin says “Gaming Industry”, is he talking about broadcasters or the industry as a whole? For me, someone who doesn’t watch twitch that much, and I’m fairly sure people like me make up a large majority, why do I care if advertisers don’t want to choose streamers or gaming teams as platforms or partners? Publishers won’t stop making games because of that, and you don’t really see ads in games in general, so why is this that large of a problem outside of the twitch and esports sphere of the industry? Games aren’t going to go away suddenly because of this? Twitch and the esports sphere is toxic for the most part, if it fails why would that be a bad thing? Devin keeps saying “I don’t know where we go from here”, but I’m looking at the very top .01% of the gaming industry from a financial standpoint, and it may collapse but why should I care? From an outside perspective, if this whole sphere is going to be so toxic it deserves to collapse and be rebuilt, and that’s a good thing.
Furthermore, the US gaming industry alone churns out a hundred billion in profit each year and growing. How does the streaming and esports industry compare? A few billion at most? The difference between esports and other sports is that the connection between the popularity of the sport at a professional level and the popularity of the sport/game at the amateur level is much less connected in the esports world. The esports for a certain game doesn’t have to be particularly popular for the game to be very popular, it’s going to get exposure either way. From a macro perspective in the gaming industry, esports and twitch makes up a very small part of the money in the industry as far as I can tell. I’d love to be proven wrong, that’s just my perspective.
This content is specifically targeting people trying to make a living with Video Game Streaming or working on being a professional esports player. If the main representative body of streaming and esports continue to cultivate a toxic and awkward environment that encourages obscene behaviour for viewership then no big company will want to identify or spend marketing dollars in streaming. All the money comes from sponsorship deals for esports in particular. Major companies pull out, the profit and monetization fades and it will not be financially feasible to start a streaming channel nor become a professional video game player without 3rd party support. We love the wild content, but if it's not family friendly companies will diversify their advertising else where as to not tarnish the reputation of their brand. This leaves Devin and many other consumers worried because the money financing the free market industry we have now for streaming/esports will vanish, then all the monetization will come only from the videogame publishers themselves. This is bad. Esports will shrink and cease to exist - only the games that encourage micro gambling boxes will be encouraged. Because the cash flow will come from the publisher instead there will be contract obligations to be adhered to. Your favourite streamer won't be able to have the same liberties they had before and games executed like TLOU2 or Anthem will find their way into FAR more wallets of unsuspecting consumers.
Yeah I was a little confused because this sounds more like he is talking about the content creation side of things vs the actual industry as a whole. I can say out of the 15-20 I play games with regularly there are only 2 of us who really watch streams. Most don't seem to even use RUclips for gaming stuff outside of events or guides.
I think he should also look at other industries such as the sports industry. We see plenty of bad looks but it’s still an absolute titan in terms of $$$.
If I was a game company, I think one of the things I'd focus on is games that are stream friendly. Things that have a lot of action, no story, little dead time, straight up competition and focus on having moments that are clip-able. All you really need to do from that point is get a few popular streamers on board and, the rest will follow because their brand demands people play these games.
This is possibly the worst comment i've seen all month. He's literally talking about how having random individuals who do whatever hurts the industry because they run wild. Doing what you said would be ok in 2014 on youtube, but doesn't work now.
Gaming is my passion man i make videos on youtube and have just started streaming i may not be very good at gaming but its something im passionate about and will continue to stream and make youtube content no matter what happens
This is why Twitch needed to take those TOS issues seriously. As the dominating space and platform for the people who promote and are the first point of contact for the outside world when it comes to the industry( meaning streamers) they need to be held to higher standards. The nfl runs the league and has the power to make sure people on individual teams not only don’t make their teams look bad but the NFL as a whole so that the perception isn’t ruined. Although each streamer basically is his own business or team, he’s doing it on twitch platform and they are giving them the tools to create a negative narrative for the industry. Not saying we shouldn’t have a variety of styles and authenticity like xqc or Dr.Dis, raunchy has its appeals as well, but we all know those streamers who just give the industry as a whole a bad rep and are not people you’d want someone first visiting twitch to see. So if twitch or RUclips doesn’t step up and make sure their platform is what it needs to be to take care of those who care for the industry then we should pull back support of these platforms until someone does. Also hopefully someone who uses the TOS fairly and consistently no matter the size of audience or gender. We shouldn’t be memeing twitch for it we should drop support until they can get their act together
Games Industry is fine (meaning sales of games, development, game advertising). It's literally bigger and better than any other entertainment industry. You're describing tertiary shit that is bubbly (influencers, twitch, esports, etc). Yes advertising through those mediums is not in a good place. Labeling what you are describing as "the whole industry" is pretty loose. What you're describing is a small fragment of "the whole industry".
Ever since the first ever Adpocalypse Everything you just said became evident.. the price we pay to be free speaking and unfiltered creators is that it only takes a few crazies to taint the image and perception of an entire industry.. and like you said, why would a brand take a gamble on a creator or industry if they risk having that creator or community get cancelled from Allegations, Drama, etc... like I can only IMAGINE how many brands looked @ Twitch this Month... Saw all the #MeToo Statements from that community.. and the executives just said “yeeeeaaah let’s just get a billboard, or commercial, or work with a Sports athlete” these brands wouldn’t take that risk and in order to change a perception there needs to be regulation which goes against the very freedom that the Internet provides and boy oh boy do people live their internet freedom, myself included, but reality is not everyone can be “professional” as you described it.. Great Vid
It is all about being the right person at the right time. Takes practice. I am an upcoming comedy streamer and i super progressive. I go with the flow, if it goes against the grain i pull out. I still to my lanes. People need to be taken away from real life issues too and laugh and enjoy. I don't think the gaming industry is in trouble as i came from motoring industry as i used to host car shows and that culture can die as each person spends huge amounts of money and there is more reason now not too and that is how a culture dies. The gaming industry doesn't have the large cost of the customers. streaming platform for games is 100% possible to crash, Because the money is coming from investors and businesses. RUclips is in a good spot because there is other stuff to do beside streamers, It gets profit from elsewhere on the platform. So when twitch could die. RUclips would live on.
I think the biggest issue right now for Twitch is the fact that there are very few streamers that take the idea of entertainment seriously. I would hope there are streamers that think about their channel like a channel. They could have scheduled content then the live show is more valuable because I have an idea of what it is they do. I used to watch Twitch all the time but I just got tired of watching people struggle to fill time. I would rather VODs of good content then when the live show happens it is concise and focused.
This is the problem I’m seeing too! Investment is great, but if you can’t make your investors money, that discourages future investments. I believe the gaming industry, esports specifically can make allot of money eventually, but it’s too soon for the amount of investment the industry has received. We don’t have the mainstream mass following that would justify these investments.
You know what I just realized? Just because you're popular doesn't mean you're worth keeping around. We've seen this by streamers moving to Mixer and other platforms. What happened? Mixer folded and twitch still kept on going strong. If you do anything to upset the balance, any suit at twitch can confidently tell you to either get with the program or fuck off, without a second thought. Because, when it comes to getting streaming content, there's always one more person who's doing the exact same thing you are that's going to be more than happy to take your place. So keeping advertisers happy would be a priority over their employees. Whether you have 20K viewers or 20, you're disposable.
Okay dude, but have you considered the gaming industry isn't lead by streaming? Twitch viewers/influences comprise of like less than 10% of all consumers or probably less. Not to say streaming platforms don't have some swing in things, but it's really not the end-all-be-all of the industry lol. Change the title to : "Click to save streaming"
You have a valid point, but it's different than what he is explaining. Yes, it's not lead by streaming, developers have been creating and selling games for decades before streaming even became an idea. So to that regard, the "gaming industry" can be considered independent of streaming. Perhaps the use of such a broad term to refer to a more specific outlook of the gaming industry may be confusing for some people. To clarify, what Devin is talking about is not regarding the gaming industry existing or surviving in terms of sales and consumers continuing to buy games, he's referring to the gaming industry and its potential of becoming a nationally recognized and respected sport. Yes, there is "e-sports" but that's just it, and his point. E-sports isn't anywhere near on par with the National Basketbal Association (NBA), the National Footbal League (NFL), Major League Baseball (MLB), or etc. and for the "gaming industry" to progress or become something greater, it needs to have a higher degree of professionalism, organization, and recognition. In other words, it needs to grow enough to generate the sort of revenue that a sporting event such as basketball, football, or baseball can produce. So when he's talking about "saving the gaming industry" he, for lack of better word, is referring to it's existence in a capitalist society where it is currently not advancing towards becoming an opportunistic, nationally recognized league or association that can offer a lucrative career path. Think of it this way, the gaming industry's highest paid individuals are streamers whereas the highest grossing gamer was Ninja who wasn't even on a professional gaming team. So when you think about the professional teams that participate in e-sporting events and how they're not making anywhere near what a professional athlete in any other sports would be making and look at the reason why (which is what he explains in the video) then it might make more sense what he means when he says, save the gaming industry. As in, save it from continuing to just be a consumer goods industry, and help figure out a way to take it to the next level or else it will always be a consumer goods industry rather than the potential sports entertainment industry it could become.
@@chi11estpanda meh the reasons are still stupid tho. "he's referring to the gaming industry and its potential of becoming a nationally recognized and respected sport" gaming has been around for like 50 years, and it already brings in more revenue than hollywood. It s the biggest entertainment industry on the planet and with corona its going to get bigger. It will take time but national level leagues will come in time. "E-sports isn't anywhere near on par with the National Basketbal Association (NBA), the National Footbal League (NFL), Major League Baseball (MLB), or etc. and for the "gaming industry" to progress or become something greater" How long have these sports being played before they became national sports? For any sports to survive it needs people who are interested in it and a grass root support for competitive play. This is something gaming has a lot of. The main reason we esports are not nationalized or in the Olympics is because of the way esports are structured. COmpanies make games, fans make the esports scene. When you try to nationalize this take it to Olympics, there are many problems eg : who sets the rules? what about copyright? who balances the game? the cost? It was floated that in japan Olympics have esports section but the same problem came up, which games, who is in control and so on and it was rejected.
@@randomwanderer311 I think we can both agree, as @Freddy Español already mentioned, that it's a click bait title. In theory, it's supposed to be a title that loosely explains what the video is about and is made to sound far-fetched just enough to stir some level of curiosity and attract viewers while not being too unbelievable that it's dismissed before even being given a chance. Seeing as how this is one of his more recent publishes and is just under 30k views, it remains to be seen if it works out well for the video. But, believe it or not, the backlash that most people have is to be expected and in my opinion, it's because the way he thinks about it and talks about it is not the same way that most of us would look at it. But to your point, you could be right and Devin is overthinking a concern of his personal opinion. I mean, I was just clarifying what I understood the video as trying to say, in the hopes that someone might gain some clarity on the matter and not be mislead to think that he meant the "gaming industry" itself was in "need" of any saving since game sales will continue to prevail. So, while I understand (presumably) and was trying to explain what Devin is saying, I don't necessarily disagree with you in what you've said. So for what it's worth, and for anyone else reading the comments (mostly for those reading the comments though) let me try to clarify things in a different way. _The _*_TLDR_*_ version (which is super simplified) of what follows is this: He shouldn't have referred to it as "the gaming industry" on RUclips because most people will confuse it for the technical meaning or reference. So for anyone who thinks this is more related to streamers and/or competitive gamers (as in, anyone wanting/hoping to make a living or career out of_ *playing* _video games), then they're right for thinking the video title is misleading. This has little to do with the average gamer, so for them and to that regard, it has nothing to do with the gaming industry as a whole._ *For those looking for a more in depth explanation/justification:* First off, let's just start by saying, the video could've been titled better. So, to better understand why he chose to refer to the entire gaming industry as a whole and not just e-sports (1:06) it may be worth understanding how he's looking at the gaming industry itself. He pretty much sums it up at 12:17 (ruclips.net/video/Csv684eBZNs/видео.html) but for those who don't get that far or still don't get it, here's another way to look at it, broken down by section: [] The confusing title - "Saving" was probably not the best choice of words because when used in association with the "gaming industry", most people instantly think that it implies it is in jeopardy and needs to be saved from ceasing to exist. What's inferred is that if the continued growth or expansion of the gaming industry into other markets of opportunity is not there, then the gaming industry will continue to be an industry where only game/console developers, gaming title publishers, and video game distributors will be the ones to profit within it. Therefore for most people, even if all these things happen or continues to happen that he mentions, then to those people the gaming industry itself will continue to be exactly what it is now and therefore they would not see it as being in danger in any sort of way, making the viewing of this video to likely be a waste of time. [] "The Gaming Industry" - if you're the type of person who believes "the gaming industry" simply refers to the production, distribution and sales of video games and/or gaming consoles then in the general sense from an economic standpoint of academia, you would not be wrong to think that. When most of us think of industries in general, we think of the classification of a product or companies that make that product. Conversely, most business professionals will refer to an industry classification or taxonomy such as the Global Industry Classification Standard (GICS®) or the North American Industry Classification System (NAICS) which classifies businesses or business establishments for the purpose of organizing economic data or for financial investment purposes. In both cases, it should be noted that he's using the term "industry" loosely here as what he talks about is not about game sales or production but is with regard to a broader view and interpretation of matters related more particularly to those who participate in the gaming industry by buying and playing video games which would be, by that definition, consumers in the gaming industry. [] Expansion into other markets of opportunity - If the gaming industry refers to making, selling, and buying video games then only those involved in the making of a video game and those who sell video games are able to do business and profit within it. So to say, expansion into other markets of opportunity, I am referring to creating opportunities for individuals or companies to earn money or make a profit within the gaming world without having to be a video game maker, publisher, or retail seller. The most common and well-known ways of doing this as someone who doesn't make or sell video games is to either be a content creator of some sort (including live broadcast content) and monetizing that by way of ads or sponsorships; or to be a competitive player who competes and earns an income through winning competitions or through brand sponsorships. [] Tying it all together - Traditionally, an industry grows as more companies offering a similar product enters the market and competition rises. However, for an industry to grow laterally , it needs to expand in some way other than bringing in more competition. Such is the concept I believe Devin is focused on and is passionate about, which is growing the "gaming industry" in a lateral sense and why he's referring to the gaming industry as a whole when he refers to the a threat to the potential revenue or income contribution that could be added to the industry aside from just video game sales; which as Nikhil S made reference to, by 2018 matched the film industry in the United States on basis of revenue, with both industries having made around $43 billion that year. Furthermore, and to tie in the previous point, in each case of the aforementioned opportunities the technically correct categorization of each business by way of NAICS varies and its industry will fall under either Information, Wholesale Trade, Retail trade, or 'Arts, Entertainment, and Recreation' but they all essentially seek to earn income or produce revenue by offering some form of digital entertainment. Since it all has to do with video gaming entertainment, it seems much easier to generalize them under "gaming industry" and probably why Devin chose to use that term.
@@randomwanderer311 BTW to answer your question, at least for NBA, basketball was invented in 1981 and the first league (NBL) was founded in 1937 which later merged with the BAA to become the NBA in 1949. So 56 years to go small time but 68 years to become what we know today as the NBA. Although the first gaming machine was introduced in 1940 at the New York World's Fair, it wasn't until 1967 that it was designed for commercial home use and Atari only came out in 1972. But, we live in a digital age so information travels faster, hopefully it won't take 68 years for it to become a real sport. The unfortunate challenge though is that there are so many different games that can be played competitively and why it would be nearly impossible to have anything like an NBA, NFL, or MLB type league unless it was for a specific game. While League of Legends is the most popular and recognized game and CS Go has investors that poured money into the hopes of it growing big, none of the e-sports arenas have been able to produce a ROI for it's investors and why it's probably going to be still a long time before anyone can ever hope to have a career in gaming.
I think this pertains mostly to the recent dramas with esports teams and underage girls. He’s done other videos going into them and the impact they’ll have on the industry or community. Like recently there was Method and Fazebanks (I think) controversy about a year ago. I may need to edit later for accuracy
If you look at the numbers, everyone in gaming is banking hard - Microsoft and all the big ones made huge amounts of money with Corona. So no worries, this industry is basically bullet proof.
@DevonNash if twitch upped the game a 2nd division where those must apply like as a partner and be reviewed to determine if they are marketable and would represent the twitch pro division as a serious (non toxic) entertainer then that division could make the bigger deals Unfortunatly it would need to be a whole new web address and appear separate from regular twitch all together which might make regular twitch to where its not financially worth the use just as mixer decided So back to square one ( how to weed out the toxic from the earnest streamer?)
what about how investment companies have been pushing game devs towards games with micro transactions? IMHO thats whats killing that gaming industry and its been going on for years now. Its also a massive part of their income.
What is he referring to? People going on weird strands of consciousness? I understand what he is saying but what event or period is he referring to? Have I been under a rock or something?
Who's included in "the entire gaming industry"? The bigger twitch streamers can live on donations. The devs are payed by the publishers, and the publishers can't really get around that. The publishers make money on game sales. It is journalists and esports people that are dependant on advertising right, or am I missing a role? That's hardly the entire industry.
Yeah you're missing absolutely everything. Watch the first bit again. Streamers surviving off of donations, being toxic, doing whatever the fuck they want - hurts everyone else. Literally everyone else. Watch the first minute, Devin explains that most things run on ad money.
Donations are a tiny fraction of the income of big Twitch streamers. If you watch the video where Pokimane breaks down her income, less than 5% of her total income is donations. It’s mostly brand deals, merch, sponsorships, etc. The kind of stuff that goes away, like Devin said, when brands view gaming as radioactive. Smaller streamers survive off donations and subs because that’s all they can get (plus maybe some free g-fuel and scuf controllers).
He never said donations were a large percentage of big Twitch streamers, just that they can live off donations without advertising. Pokimane makes 10s of thousands of dollars every MONTH from Twitch subs with very few expenses. Most medium and smaller streamers already depend almost entirely on Twitch subs with maybe some RUclips cash depending on how many views their channel gets. So yeah, even if advertising was eradicated from the gaming sphere, most streamers would be fine. Personally, I would prefer that gaming not become radioactive because I like esports, but let's not act like thousands of streamers would be out of a job if it happened. Esports pros and staff are the ones on the chopping block.
This made me think and a question came to mind. Is Facebook Gaming like Twitch or RUclips? Or is it something of in between of both? Or a separate entity all its own?
Facebook gaming is somewhere in between because those creators have a much tighter leash in terms of what is and isn’t montizable. They keep a pretty heavy emphasis on family advertiser friendly content, while twitch lets anything go so long as it is within TOS. Facebook is very advertiser prone and therefore using that platform means you have more stringent rules that adhere to advertiser wishes
@@zixelation9251 Ahh ok. So if you break a ToS on Facebook gaming they won't out right ban you like Twitch can, but they also won't give you a warning like RUclips would. I only ask because Facebook gaming doesn't have a list of games that you can't stream.
Gaming was gaming well before esports. It would be here well after esports is no longer entertaining. I buy games all year, only a handful would probably have an esport. Which I don’t participate in, watch or buy merch for. And I buy games on 4 different platforms. Gaming does benefit from Multiplayer games, but esports not so much. That helps streaming more than anything.
Isn't it crazy how we have gone from the slogan "The Music Industry" in the late 90's/early 00's and now in 2020 it's "The Gaming Industry". We've come full circle.
I feel the vibe of the video. There are definitely some alarming developments when it comes to gaming content creators. But this video is about advertising and content production industry. The gaming industry is in a fairly strong position: 1) Global consumer spend on video games (ex. China) is more than USD 100bn [link to chart -> imgur.com/794zorW] 2) future prospects are driven by a) tech availability [access to gaming consoles, almost everyone in the world owns a phone now which was not true 15 years ago] and b) quality of games [games are in competition with other leisure, e.g. TikTok, Netflix, books, going out for drinks etc.] 3) gaming industry also creates strong IP and its potential has not been fully unleashed. there will be a "Disney" of gaming industry I think the youtube competition analysis was a bit strange - RUclipsrs are in as much competition as any produced content (TV series, movies etc.) on Netflix or HBO Max. It is true that there is not a lot of friction (you can jump from one RUclipsr to another or from one TV series to other TV series without any significant barriers). But the consumer has limited "content hours" per day, those who did not make into those "content hours" - lost. Devin, your video got into my "content hours" - you won.
Have streamers tried finding an existing union willing to bring them on or lend their knowledge? I know of unions for heavy equipment operators that represent EMTs. Maybe streamers should organize under the colors of an established union.
Gaming communities being less toxic isn't the real issue here. The truth is that media companies already have enough money to guarantee their eSports players, influencers, and content creators a living wage on their platforms, but they willingly choose not to do so. It's more important that the gamers themselves who are responsible for generating up to 50% of the media companies revenue, remain a disposable labor force for the capitalist system to maintain control over their workers. Once the workers aren't forced to live paycheck to paycheck, they will be more inclined to unionize, and demand a seat at the table, and will be overall less competitive compared to their starving artists peers. If the gaming community is toxic it's because the twitch, youtube, and other companies rather milk their creators for every dime and watch them self-destruct than share their profits, or any control over their platform. Unfortunately attracting more advertiser revenue by self-destructing less won't change things as the companies will only allow but so much of it to trickle down to their actual work force.
Bruh I got an ad for the stream upgrades app. Random actor nobodies saying they got 25k viewers on twitch cause of some website???? Why are their so many bullshit sites online now
Devin, I am a small time creator on twitch. I sometimes will stream a "Streaming 101" class for new streamers. The part of your video where you talk about professionalism would be PERFECT for me to show to people. Would you mind if I clipped some portion of that and showed it to my stream? I will give you full credit and provide a link to your youtube channel. I will let you know my twitch address if you'd like in the responses as I don't want to self advertise.
Esports/Gaming/Streaming now called "Gaming Industry" in this video, will not go anywhere then where they are right now, at least not in a foreseeable future. The reason is that they are all based on big phat money hungry corporations and they don't want it to go anywhere outside of their control. That's why Valve shutdown gambling websites, that's why Riot has a Franchised League, that's why Activision sends out boat loads of crap every year, that's why EA forces developers to do unnecessary money grabbing features, that's why Tencent owns shares on so many studios and publishers. They are all making money, they will keep making it and continue this cicle.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't mean the 'entirety' of the gaming industry does it? (which has been around for 40+ years) I imagine Devin is only speaking to the specifics of the 'gaming media creators' industry, the streamers and such..
On the topic of toxicity. The problem is there's no one to reign these shitheads in. Look at pro sports, you have your player do stupid shit, the organization will pull that leash in. We don't have that in gaming. It's also propagated by viewers who fund these shit heads just because they're amused by the unprofessional behavior. There's no gate to prevent anyone from streaming and no leash on these kids when they do. Look at the serious allegations recently. These people think they're hot shit with no consequences because they're in their bedroom in front of a computer having their ego propped up by people they don't know... And there's nothing to bring these people back down to earn until it's too late. The only change that can come about is if twitch, youtube, other big streaming sites enforce some degree of professionalism... Which none of them would ever want to take such a controversial and active role. It's simply a bad business model. So I don't see anything significant changing any time soon.
Experimenting with thumbnails huh. I prefer this one with the coffin cuz idk who that guy that you put on the previous thumbnail was and I didn't even bother clicking.
Before watching the video my first thoughts are that the gaming industry needs a massive overhaul in the sense its over valuing things because of the slippery slope of mtx and always pushing to make more when more wasn't needed for the development. I think way to much money is wasted on upper levels of business men that offer nothing to the product and just cause the product to need to make more money. Jim Sterling talks on many of these points its nothing new and its kind of getting worse as time goes on. Look to sports games for example the company is so over saturated with "investors" that they can't even keep talent on hand to make there games and now they just out source it to companies that make cheap product rehashes. I think in the short future we will see return to smaller indie dev games that still value what they give there communities and aren't over saturated with people that have money and just want more money at any expense of the brand. Now change my mind..
Off topic kinda, kinda not, advertising as a whole I don't think makes near what it used to. I think ads before kind of tricked people into buying things they don't need to some degree and because of social media and time spent within it people are almost wising up to being tricked into something. Think youtube thumbnail progression in the last few years its like when people see how the ads work they don't work unless its a product you actually are looking for. In this sense I think a lot of industries that rely on advertising as a large part of there revenue will be in trouble. Does this mean games should cost more probably but mtx is so manipulative in many cases that there still needs to be regulations because to many companies take the piss at the expense of people. I'd like to see the world of gaming return to an upfront cost, proper dlc (actual game content) or a monthly sub if they think they offer value for it. WoW having a sub is acceptable but swtor having a sub is not. I want to see some guidelines set out that in basic terms make sure you get some level of gameplay value for your money and not some kind of illusionary cosmetic value created by tweaking a few numbers to make an item rare.
Oh you mean save creator ad monetization not game companies from losing money from loot boxes lol Same shit really advertising as a whole doesn't work like it used to. Just think about yourself how many commercials have you clicked on lately. I feel like 10 years ago a big mac commercial made me hungry but now I just want to skip the ad or click off the video or get pissed off your stuck watching it and want the product less. Even if its a 30 youtube sponsorship how many people just skip 30 seconds ahead. Sure you can get interesting creative ads like angryjoe ones that make you want to watch but I still don't think you can be influenced into getting something you don't need as much anymore either. What that means long term for creators who knows I always liked the idea of patreon type creator money making over pushing product people don't need through ads.
Devin is a salary and industry guy. He doesn't know anything about making money for yourself. It's not his forte. Even the deals he knows of; someone else took a cut.
You should do a video for streamers who have come up with original ideas/approaches, but are having a hard time getting discovered despite having a balanced stream (streaming vs content creation) and need a little guidance as to how to get that initial foundation of viewers built! Thanks for all you do Dev!
Well pretty much what I have been thinking about dailey for the last couple weeks...I do not know if it is possible for esports to grow on twitch unless certain things change. Just chatting leaves open a huge world of controversy and well things that you do not see on espn and sportscenter. Although some find twitch rivals cool I always see it as twitch capitalising on hype for a game that has usually been recently released, basically not alot of competative integrity to it. Alot of esports teams have also started to go as young as they can to get the best performances possible which can lead to a mentally unstable person being thrown into the lime light. I think the biggest problem is the ip differences from sport...and I think the capitalistic side just out right kills any abilites to grow if not handled with care. Alot of things need to happen for gaming to be a serious venture for more people in the future...My biggest thought was that one day I would be able to either drive into a stadium in rocket league to watch a game....or go down to your local esports venue to watch a laser projected game. Sorry I know I am a dreamer lol
Ok, so if you want twitch to not be seen as a toxic environment, get twitch to stop putting chat with me as I flash my body suggestively to you, as the top channels when you log in. You also need to get the criminals off the platform. No one wants to go against RIAA because someone who was on a platform that lets stuff go on like react videos, that are 1 or 2 sentences on a 2 1/2 hour copyrighted movie or entire cd label.
??? Merch sales per individual are a larger part of their pie. Selling product direct to consumer... Affiliate programs... Donations. Creator Codes... Salaries/employment... Coaching/teaching/consulting.... Graphics, Editing... Rig building... Seems like you're only thinking in your own box. The industry is much larger than your own experience. You didn't even mention Real Estate/property rental... There's a lot more revenue stream ingrained in the industry that you neglected or naively must not know about...
Oh, i get why you are saying such misguided statements now... You spend so much of your own experience in the drama that your perspective is skewed from the reality of the larger industry as a whole. Your life would be happier if you paid less attention to the negative drama of other people's lives.
Been saying for months that communities kill games. ESPECIALLY free games. Honestly, the qualifications and standards to be a broadcaster should be increased. This can sound a little mean but, from a business standpoint, streams that arent for real trying to make money should nt be grouped with streams that are. The idea that Twitch just lets a person try forever, without demanding unwatched streams to change or try something different or delete unwatched accounts after 6 months and make them start over is, just a little silly. I almost think a subscription model to twitch, where you pay to watch the better streams, and all other streamers are grouped together would better serve Twitch. The idea that " I want to be a gamer" streams are also grouped with "maybe someone will want to watch me play around" streams, is kinda silly. The qualifications to be a professional gamer should go beyond "is good at 'insert game name'" Let's be honest. Being good at a video game does not mean you know how to make money. I can name 5 professional gamers. Thats it. thats all I can think of. how many are there supposed to be? Those people have no idea how to get their name out there. They literally dont do anything but, play that game. Unless a persons interest is exactly what that pro gamer plays, they will never get discovered. Most people arent business minded. Most people, especially in Twitch's broadcast industry, which is where most of gaming lives, are just as self oriented as you said, will try to get money in any way possible, and were raised in a culture where any exposure is good exposure, as long as your name is out there. They dont understand that the money they receive from this is the 1/2 of a percent, that you spoke of as merchandising. yet, most people are so greedy or, just plain starving, that they cant skip the little money to get to the big money. The type of intelligence you are talking of wont come from the average broadcaster Mr Nash. That type of intelligence realizes there isnt any money to be made in Twitch broadcasting or gaming in general.
Asmongold taught me the importance of not washing your hands after you pee. I'm glad he's one of the platforms biggest personalities. Thank you Asmon. :)
couldint agree more... people are loving games and playing more and more as tech get better... what we are starting to not care about is watching people who are not even talented at games playing.... if you were getting money to play games you should be thankful most are totally irrelivant unless you are one of the best players in the world.. we dont need more IRL streams or people on youtube pushing trashy mobile games.... seems like all these streamers are just starting to realize they are a dime a dozen... if you think you will stream forever as your job your are very mistaken.. it is totally a bubble and it will burst with only the best players or most interesting and entertaining content creators left.
Devin changing the title/thumbnail to improve the CTR
Yeah. And I clicked it again! Damnit Devin!
5Head Clap
Terrible Teammates I did the same lol
It worked
Following Ludwig style titles and thumbnails-nice
I initially read “Titles” as “Titties” 🤦🏻♂️
He could use a "..." at the end for some extra zoomer bait
upgraded to full zoomer now
Click to SAVE gaming...
I know this was just released, and I’m currently watching, but I just wanted to share a comment early in hopes that you’d see it - thank you for sharing your knowledge and opinions on this stuff. We definitely need more people to take the gaming industry more seriously. It’s a MASSIVE industry and has changed the way the modern world consumes content in a drastic way but we have yet to really organize it like we have some of the other major industries in the world. Thanks for the great content and cheers!
Agreed, it's nice to see some coherent thoughts given on the issue. The industry definitely needs some help.
Man, the last part with the bowl analogy was gold!! If I could I would subscribe again
Devin's impersonations/acting is fucking hilarious lmao, hope he does more in the future
To be honest idk if it can be just as easy of a fix as ppl need to "get better" I say this because in the gaming industry the age range and mental processing range is so big. Also I would say half of the gaming industry is really just there to have fun and use this as an escape so they do not want to talk about or focus on anything that would be considered to be serious. Because they themselves either one do not feel like they are really apart of the industry or 2 they feel like whatever they have to say will in the end not mean or affect anything in the overall picture.
Why is this business behind the scenes stuff so interesting so fascinating I never thought of it this way but twitch is very different than RUclips
I feel like it has a LOT to do with advertisers ONLY looking at numbers and not the person they are working with. It should be seen as an entire package.
Next level Devin: Get a big green screen and make these stream clips/videos with the TedTalk background! Going full meme! xD
See a lot of comments saying this only affects creators and esports and not games as a whole. Very untrue and a dangerous thought process of the industry is to continue growth. As was stated in the beginning this is a very new industry. Roughly 30+ years is still infant stage for a “industry”. What gaming was like 15 years ago is vastly different then what we have now. The curve of explosive growth for gaming kicked off when esports was becoming more popular and content creators were promoting games by allowing you to get interested in a game before you bought it, sometimes before it even came out. People are saying the money that esports and content creation bring in to the industry is minuscule compared to how much it makes outside of these two components, but that growth in money come hand in hand. The bigger twitch became and the bigger esports became, the more games were able to reach larger audiences and make more sales. Why do you think companies will pay creators to show off their games early or to promote it. Why do you think Valorant had esport tournaments before the game even came out of beta. If we undermine the repercussions of what will happen when these 2 components of the industry start failing, it’ll be to late.
Fuck it, let it fail. Failure is a part of life.
Devin, a lot of what you're describing is not only isolated to the gaming industry at the moment but a lot of the tech industry as well. Its just hidden better due to very few companies being in the positive cash wise.
What is he considering "game industry" besides Devs and Publishers ? ( He says streamers , youtubers and gaming industry . But also says Devs and Publishers get money by game sales , so what's the rest of gaming industry ? )
To be quite sincere , I just left thinking : ruin the gaming industry as a product and saving it as an art . I never saw an expressive AD in game (besides AMD or Nvidia at the start of a game screen). Game industry will stagnate , so what ? I liked it more in 2012, 2008 , where it was a more nich driven . The more and more gaming tries to appel for everyone the less it appels for "OG gamers" .
If this means we are not getting a new Assassin's Creed every year , loot boxes , mobile games , 10 thousand battle royale games every year . It could only be a great thing for me .
THAT WAS FUNNY AT THE END!!!! LMAO I was dying. Devin said "Old man yells at notepad" that needs to be a title for a vid
10:58 This is why we love Devin Nash
This video confuses me. When Devin says “Gaming Industry”, is he talking about broadcasters or the industry as a whole? For me, someone who doesn’t watch twitch that much, and I’m fairly sure people like me make up a large majority, why do I care if advertisers don’t want to choose streamers or gaming teams as platforms or partners? Publishers won’t stop making games because of that, and you don’t really see ads in games in general, so why is this that large of a problem outside of the twitch and esports sphere of the industry? Games aren’t going to go away suddenly because of this? Twitch and the esports sphere is toxic for the most part, if it fails why would that be a bad thing? Devin keeps saying “I don’t know where we go from here”, but I’m looking at the very top .01% of the gaming industry from a financial standpoint, and it may collapse but why should I care? From an outside perspective, if this whole sphere is going to be so toxic it deserves to collapse and be rebuilt, and that’s a good thing.
Furthermore, the US gaming industry alone churns out a hundred billion in profit each year and growing. How does the streaming and esports industry compare? A few billion at most? The difference between esports and other sports is that the connection between the popularity of the sport at a professional level and the popularity of the sport/game at the amateur level is much less connected in the esports world. The esports for a certain game doesn’t have to be particularly popular for the game to be very popular, it’s going to get exposure either way. From a macro perspective in the gaming industry, esports and twitch makes up a very small part of the money in the industry as far as I can tell. I’d love to be proven wrong, that’s just my perspective.
Its not a gaming problem like this video says its more a content creators problem.
This content is specifically targeting people trying to make a living with Video Game Streaming or working on being a professional esports player.
If the main representative body of streaming and esports continue to cultivate a toxic and awkward environment that encourages obscene behaviour for viewership then no big company will want to identify or spend marketing dollars in streaming. All the money comes from sponsorship deals for esports in particular. Major companies pull out, the profit and monetization fades and it will not be financially feasible to start a streaming channel nor become a professional video game player without 3rd party support.
We love the wild content, but if it's not family friendly companies will diversify their advertising else where as to not tarnish the reputation of their brand.
This leaves Devin and many other consumers worried because the money financing the free market industry we have now for streaming/esports will vanish, then all the monetization will come only from the videogame publishers themselves.
This is bad.
Esports will shrink and cease to exist - only the games that encourage micro gambling boxes will be encouraged.
Because the cash flow will come from the publisher instead there will be contract obligations to be adhered to. Your favourite streamer won't be able to have the same liberties they had before and games executed like TLOU2 or Anthem will find their way into FAR more wallets of unsuspecting consumers.
Yeah I was a little confused because this sounds more like he is talking about the content creation side of things vs the actual industry as a whole. I can say out of the 15-20 I play games with regularly there are only 2 of us who really watch streams. Most don't seem to even use RUclips for gaming stuff outside of events or guides.
100% agree. This talk had nothing to do with the gaming industry. the title is misleading
This is my NUMBER 1 concern about the gaming industry
Fantastic video and brilliant finish! Loved the voice overs :)
I think he should also look at other industries such as the sports industry. We see plenty of bad looks but it’s still an absolute titan in terms of $$$.
If I was a game company, I think one of the things I'd focus on is games that are stream friendly. Things that have a lot of action, no story, little dead time, straight up competition and focus on having moments that are clip-able. All you really need to do from that point is get a few popular streamers on board and, the rest will follow because their brand demands people play these games.
This is possibly the worst comment i've seen all month. He's literally talking about how having random individuals who do whatever hurts the industry because they run wild.
Doing what you said would be ok in 2014 on youtube, but doesn't work now.
i saved gaming by clicking this video.
The quality of the vids are really good as well now! Congratulate the editors in the lab :)
Gaming is my passion man i make videos on youtube and have just started streaming i may not be very good at gaming but its something im passionate about and will continue to stream and make youtube content no matter what happens
This is why Twitch needed to take those TOS issues seriously. As the dominating space and platform for the people who promote and are the first point of contact for the outside world when it comes to the industry( meaning streamers) they need to be held to higher standards. The nfl runs the league and has the power to make sure people on individual teams not only don’t make their teams look bad but the NFL as a whole so that the perception isn’t ruined. Although each streamer basically is his own business or team, he’s doing it on twitch platform and they are giving them the tools to create a negative narrative for the industry. Not saying we shouldn’t have a variety of styles and authenticity like xqc or Dr.Dis, raunchy has its appeals as well, but we all know those streamers who just give the industry as a whole a bad rep and are not people you’d want someone first visiting twitch to see. So if twitch or RUclips doesn’t step up and make sure their platform is what it needs to be to take care of those who care for the industry then we should pull back support of these platforms until someone does. Also hopefully someone who uses the TOS fairly and consistently no matter the size of audience or gender. We shouldn’t be memeing twitch for it we should drop support until they can get their act together
Business’s don’t like inconsistency and that’s where we are right now.
Any good self development books anyone would recommend?
Games Industry is fine (meaning sales of games, development, game advertising). It's literally bigger and better than any other entertainment industry.
You're describing tertiary shit that is bubbly (influencers, twitch, esports, etc). Yes advertising through those mediums is not in a good place.
Labeling what you are describing as "the whole industry" is pretty loose. What you're describing is a small fragment of "the whole industry".
Bad take. Learn english.
I feel such much better about the gaming industry after listening to this...
Ever since the first ever Adpocalypse Everything you just said became evident.. the price we pay to be free speaking and unfiltered creators is that it only takes a few crazies to taint the image and perception of an entire industry.. and like you said, why would a brand take a gamble on a creator or industry if they risk having that creator or community get cancelled from Allegations, Drama, etc... like I can only IMAGINE how many brands looked @ Twitch this Month... Saw all the #MeToo Statements from that community.. and the executives just said “yeeeeaaah let’s just get a billboard, or commercial, or work with a Sports athlete” these brands wouldn’t take that risk and in order to change a perception there needs to be regulation which goes against the very freedom that the Internet provides and boy oh boy do people live their internet freedom, myself included, but reality is not everyone can be “professional” as you described it.. Great Vid
It is all about being the right person at the right time. Takes practice. I am an upcoming comedy streamer and i super progressive. I go with the flow, if it goes against the grain i pull out. I still to my lanes. People need to be taken away from real life issues too and laugh and enjoy. I don't think the gaming industry is in trouble as i came from motoring industry as i used to host car shows and that culture can die as each person spends huge amounts of money and there is more reason now not too and that is how a culture dies. The gaming industry doesn't have the large cost of the customers. streaming platform for games is 100% possible to crash, Because the money is coming from investors and businesses. RUclips is in a good spot because there is other stuff to do beside streamers, It gets profit from elsewhere on the platform. So when twitch could die. RUclips would live on.
I think the biggest issue right now for Twitch is the fact that there are very few streamers that take the idea of entertainment seriously. I would hope there are streamers that think about their channel like a channel. They could have scheduled content then the live show is more valuable because I have an idea of what it is they do. I used to watch Twitch all the time but I just got tired of watching people struggle to fill time. I would rather VODs of good content then when the live show happens it is concise and focused.
This is the problem I’m seeing too! Investment is great, but if you can’t make your investors money, that discourages future investments. I believe the gaming industry, esports specifically can make allot of money eventually, but it’s too soon for the amount of investment the industry has received. We don’t have the mainstream mass following that would justify these investments.
wow, this thumbnail 180'd
You know what I just realized? Just because you're popular doesn't mean you're worth keeping around. We've seen this by streamers moving to Mixer and other platforms. What happened? Mixer folded and twitch still kept on going strong. If you do anything to upset the balance, any suit at twitch can confidently tell you to either get with the program or fuck off, without a second thought. Because, when it comes to getting streaming content, there's always one more person who's doing the exact same thing you are that's going to be more than happy to take your place. So keeping advertisers happy would be a priority over their employees. Whether you have 20K viewers or 20, you're disposable.
10/10 title and thumbnail
Okay dude, but have you considered the gaming industry isn't lead by streaming? Twitch viewers/influences comprise of like less than 10% of all consumers or probably less. Not to say streaming platforms don't have some swing in things, but it's really not the end-all-be-all of the industry lol. Change the title to : "Click to save streaming"
You have a valid point, but it's different than what he is explaining. Yes, it's not lead by streaming, developers have been creating and selling games for decades before streaming even became an idea. So to that regard, the "gaming industry" can be considered independent of streaming. Perhaps the use of such a broad term to refer to a more specific outlook of the gaming industry may be confusing for some people.
To clarify, what Devin is talking about is not regarding the gaming industry existing or surviving in terms of sales and consumers continuing to buy games, he's referring to the gaming industry and its potential of becoming a nationally recognized and respected sport. Yes, there is "e-sports" but that's just it, and his point. E-sports isn't anywhere near on par with the National Basketbal Association (NBA), the National Footbal League (NFL), Major League Baseball (MLB), or etc. and for the "gaming industry" to progress or become something greater, it needs to have a higher degree of professionalism, organization, and recognition. In other words, it needs to grow enough to generate the sort of revenue that a sporting event such as basketball, football, or baseball can produce.
So when he's talking about "saving the gaming industry" he, for lack of better word, is referring to it's existence in a capitalist society where it is currently not advancing towards becoming an opportunistic, nationally recognized league or association that can offer a lucrative career path. Think of it this way, the gaming industry's highest paid individuals are streamers whereas the highest grossing gamer was Ninja who wasn't even on a professional gaming team. So when you think about the professional teams that participate in e-sporting events and how they're not making anywhere near what a professional athlete in any other sports would be making and look at the reason why (which is what he explains in the video) then it might make more sense what he means when he says, save the gaming industry.
As in, save it from continuing to just be a consumer goods industry, and help figure out a way to take it to the next level or else it will always be a consumer goods industry rather than the potential sports entertainment industry it could become.
@@chi11estpanda meh the reasons are still stupid tho.
"he's referring to the gaming industry and its potential of becoming a nationally recognized and respected sport"
gaming has been around for like 50 years, and it already brings in more revenue than hollywood. It s the biggest entertainment industry on the planet and with corona its going to get bigger. It will take time but national level leagues will come in time.
"E-sports isn't anywhere near on par with the National Basketbal Association (NBA), the National Footbal League (NFL), Major League Baseball (MLB), or etc. and for the "gaming industry" to progress or become something greater"
How long have these sports being played before they became national sports? For any sports to survive it needs people who are interested in it and a grass root support for competitive play. This is something gaming has a lot of.
The main reason we esports are not nationalized or in the Olympics is because of the way esports are structured. COmpanies make games, fans make the esports scene. When you try to nationalize this take it to Olympics, there are many problems eg : who sets the rules? what about copyright? who balances the game? the cost?
It was floated that in japan Olympics have esports section but the same problem came up, which games, who is in control and so on and it was rejected.
@@randomwanderer311 I think we can both agree, as @Freddy Español
already mentioned, that it's a click bait title. In theory, it's supposed to be a title that loosely explains what the video is about and is made to sound far-fetched just enough to stir some level of curiosity and attract viewers while not being too unbelievable that it's dismissed before even being given a chance. Seeing as how this is one of his more recent publishes and is just under 30k views, it remains to be seen if it works out well for the video. But, believe it or not, the backlash that most people have is to be expected and in my opinion, it's because the way he thinks about it and talks about it is not the same way that most of us would look at it.
But to your point, you could be right and Devin is overthinking a concern of his personal opinion. I mean, I was just clarifying what I understood the video as trying to say, in the hopes that someone might gain some clarity on the matter and not be mislead to think that he meant the "gaming industry" itself was in "need" of any saving since game sales will continue to prevail. So, while I understand (presumably) and was trying to explain what Devin is saying, I don't necessarily disagree with you in what you've said. So for what it's worth, and for anyone else reading the comments (mostly for those reading the comments though) let me try to clarify things in a different way.
_The _*_TLDR_*_ version (which is super simplified) of what follows is this: He shouldn't have referred to it as "the gaming industry" on RUclips because most people will confuse it for the technical meaning or reference. So for anyone who thinks this is more related to streamers and/or competitive gamers (as in, anyone wanting/hoping to make a living or career out of_ *playing* _video games), then they're right for thinking the video title is misleading. This has little to do with the average gamer, so for them and to that regard, it has nothing to do with the gaming industry as a whole._
*For those looking for a more in depth explanation/justification:*
First off, let's just start by saying, the video could've been titled better. So, to better understand why he chose to refer to the entire gaming industry as a whole and not just e-sports (1:06) it may be worth understanding how he's looking at the gaming industry itself. He pretty much sums it up at 12:17 (ruclips.net/video/Csv684eBZNs/видео.html) but for those who don't get that far or still don't get it, here's another way to look at it, broken down by section:
[] The confusing title - "Saving" was probably not the best choice of words because when used in association with the "gaming industry", most people instantly think that it implies it is in jeopardy and needs to be saved from ceasing to exist. What's inferred is that if the continued growth or expansion of the gaming industry into other markets of opportunity is not there, then the gaming industry will continue to be an industry where only game/console developers, gaming title publishers, and video game distributors will be the ones to profit within it. Therefore for most people, even if all these things happen or continues to happen that he mentions, then to those people the gaming industry itself will continue to be exactly what it is now and therefore they would not see it as being in danger in any sort of way, making the viewing of this video to likely be a waste of time.
[] "The Gaming Industry" - if you're the type of person who believes "the gaming industry" simply refers to the production, distribution and sales of video games and/or gaming consoles then in the general sense from an economic standpoint of academia, you would not be wrong to think that. When most of us think of industries in general, we think of the classification of a product or companies that make that product. Conversely, most business professionals will refer to an industry classification or taxonomy such as the Global Industry Classification Standard (GICS®) or the North American Industry Classification System (NAICS) which classifies businesses or business establishments for the purpose of organizing economic data or for financial investment purposes. In both cases, it should be noted that he's using the term "industry" loosely here as what he talks about is not about game sales or production but is with regard to a broader view and interpretation of matters related more particularly to those who participate in the gaming industry by buying and playing video games which would be, by that definition, consumers in the gaming industry.
[] Expansion into other markets of opportunity - If the gaming industry refers to making, selling, and buying video games then only those involved in the making of a video game and those who sell video games are able to do business and profit within it. So to say, expansion into other markets of opportunity, I am referring to creating opportunities for individuals or companies to earn money or make a profit within the gaming world without having to be a video game maker, publisher, or retail seller. The most common and well-known ways of doing this as someone who doesn't make or sell video games is to either be a content creator of some sort (including live broadcast content) and monetizing that by way of ads or sponsorships; or to be a competitive player who competes and earns an income through winning competitions or through brand sponsorships.
[] Tying it all together - Traditionally, an industry grows as more companies offering a similar product enters the market and competition rises. However, for an industry to grow laterally , it needs to expand in some way other than bringing in more competition. Such is the concept I believe Devin is focused on and is passionate about, which is growing the "gaming industry" in a lateral sense and why he's referring to the gaming industry as a whole when he refers to the a threat to the potential revenue or income contribution that could be added to the industry aside from just video game sales; which as Nikhil S made reference to, by 2018 matched the film industry in the United States on basis of revenue, with both industries having made around $43 billion that year. Furthermore, and to tie in the previous point, in each case of the aforementioned opportunities the technically correct categorization of each business by way of NAICS varies and its industry will fall under either Information, Wholesale Trade, Retail trade, or 'Arts, Entertainment, and Recreation' but they all essentially seek to earn income or produce revenue by offering some form of digital entertainment. Since it all has to do with video gaming entertainment, it seems much easier to generalize them under "gaming industry" and probably why Devin chose to use that term.
@@randomwanderer311 BTW to answer your question, at least for NBA, basketball was invented in 1981 and the first league (NBL) was founded in 1937 which later merged with the BAA to become the NBA in 1949. So 56 years to go small time but 68 years to become what we know today as the NBA. Although the first gaming machine was introduced in 1940 at the New York World's Fair, it wasn't until 1967 that it was designed for commercial home use and Atari only came out in 1972. But, we live in a digital age so information travels faster, hopefully it won't take 68 years for it to become a real sport. The unfortunate challenge though is that there are so many different games that can be played competitively and why it would be nearly impossible to have anything like an NBA, NFL, or MLB type league unless it was for a specific game.
While League of Legends is the most popular and recognized game and CS Go has investors that poured money into the hopes of it growing big, none of the e-sports arenas have been able to produce a ROI for it's investors and why it's probably going to be still a long time before anyone can ever hope to have a career in gaming.
Awesome video, couldn't catch it live but always thankful for these uploads.
Now i can say I saved gaming
can someone explain whats been going on with twitch?? i don't really bother with drama so i dont really know whats going on
I think this pertains mostly to the recent dramas with esports teams and underage girls. He’s done other videos going into them and the impact they’ll have on the industry or community. Like recently there was Method and Fazebanks (I think) controversy about a year ago. I may need to edit later for accuracy
If you look at the numbers, everyone in gaming is banking hard - Microsoft and all the big ones made huge amounts of money with Corona. So no worries, this industry is basically bullet proof.
I think his point went over your head.
I love the mad scientist hair-do and vibes. I subbed.
The ludwig title advice worked on me
@DevonNash if twitch upped the game a 2nd division where those must apply like as a partner and be reviewed to determine if they are marketable and would represent the twitch pro division as a serious (non toxic) entertainer then that division could make the bigger deals
Unfortunatly it would need to be a whole new web address and appear separate from regular twitch all together which might make regular twitch to where its not financially worth the use just as mixer decided
So back to square one ( how to weed out the toxic from the earnest streamer?)
what about how investment companies have been pushing game devs towards games with micro transactions? IMHO thats whats killing that gaming industry and its been going on for years now. Its also a massive part of their income.
What is he referring to? People going on weird strands of consciousness? I understand what he is saying but what event or period is he referring to? Have I been under a rock or something?
Lmfao "black dragon robotic fuck machine 3000"
Who's included in "the entire gaming industry"?
The bigger twitch streamers can live on donations. The devs are payed by the publishers, and the publishers can't really get around that. The publishers make money on game sales.
It is journalists and esports people that are dependant on advertising right, or am I missing a role? That's hardly the entire industry.
Yeah you're missing absolutely everything. Watch the first bit again.
Streamers surviving off of donations, being toxic, doing whatever the fuck they want - hurts everyone else. Literally everyone else. Watch the first minute, Devin explains that most things run on ad money.
Donations are a tiny fraction of the income of big Twitch streamers. If you watch the video where Pokimane breaks down her income, less than 5% of her total income is donations. It’s mostly brand deals, merch, sponsorships, etc. The kind of stuff that goes away, like Devin said, when brands view gaming as radioactive. Smaller streamers survive off donations and subs because that’s all they can get (plus maybe some free g-fuel and scuf controllers).
He never said donations were a large percentage of big Twitch streamers, just that they can live off donations without advertising. Pokimane makes 10s of thousands of dollars every MONTH from Twitch subs with very few expenses. Most medium and smaller streamers already depend almost entirely on Twitch subs with maybe some RUclips cash depending on how many views their channel gets. So yeah, even if advertising was eradicated from the gaming sphere, most streamers would be fine. Personally, I would prefer that gaming not become radioactive because I like esports, but let's not act like thousands of streamers would be out of a job if it happened. Esports pros and staff are the ones on the chopping block.
Looks like Ludwig's advice got to you. Good title to ngl
This made me think and a question came to mind. Is Facebook Gaming like Twitch or RUclips? Or is it something of in between of both? Or a separate entity all its own?
Facebook gaming is somewhere in between because those creators have a much tighter leash in terms of what is and isn’t montizable. They keep a pretty heavy emphasis on family advertiser friendly content, while twitch lets anything go so long as it is within TOS. Facebook is very advertiser prone and therefore using that platform means you have more stringent rules that adhere to advertiser wishes
@@zixelation9251 Ahh ok. So if you break a ToS on Facebook gaming they won't out right ban you like Twitch can, but they also won't give you a warning like RUclips would. I only ask because Facebook gaming doesn't have a list of games that you can't stream.
Very insightful, cool video
Gaming was gaming well before esports. It would be here well after esports is no longer entertaining. I buy games all year, only a handful would probably have an esport. Which I don’t participate in, watch or buy merch for. And I buy games on 4 different platforms. Gaming does benefit from Multiplayer games, but esports not so much. That helps streaming more than anything.
Isn't it crazy how we have gone from the slogan "The Music Industry" in the late 90's/early 00's and now in 2020 it's "The Gaming Industry". We've come full circle.
Slogan? What do you mean? The gaming industry was a term in the 90s too... It's a phrase to explain what field you're talking about. What the fuck?
@@noname-ng6sj It's a metaphor, if you have to ask, there is no point explaining.
I feel the vibe of the video. There are definitely some alarming developments when it comes to gaming content creators.
But this video is about advertising and content production industry. The gaming industry is in a fairly strong position:
1) Global consumer spend on video games (ex. China) is more than USD 100bn [link to chart -> imgur.com/794zorW]
2) future prospects are driven by a) tech availability [access to gaming consoles, almost everyone in the world owns a phone now which was not true 15 years ago] and b) quality of games [games are in competition with other leisure, e.g. TikTok, Netflix, books, going out for drinks etc.]
3) gaming industry also creates strong IP and its potential has not been fully unleashed. there will be a "Disney" of gaming industry
I think the youtube competition analysis was a bit strange - RUclipsrs are in as much competition as any produced content (TV series, movies etc.) on Netflix or HBO Max. It is true that there is not a lot of friction (you can jump from one RUclipsr to another or from one TV series to other TV series without any significant barriers). But the consumer has limited "content hours" per day, those who did not make into those "content hours" - lost. Devin, your video got into my "content hours" - you won.
Have streamers tried finding an existing union willing to bring them on or lend their knowledge? I know of unions for heavy equipment operators that represent EMTs. Maybe streamers should organize under the colors of an established union.
Here from the thumbnail change lol
Gaming communities being less toxic isn't the real issue here. The truth is that media companies already have enough money to guarantee their eSports players, influencers, and content creators a living wage on their platforms, but they willingly choose not to do so.
It's more important that the gamers themselves who are responsible for generating up to 50% of the media companies revenue, remain a disposable labor force for the capitalist system to maintain control over their workers.
Once the workers aren't forced to live paycheck to paycheck, they will be more inclined to unionize, and demand a seat at the table, and will be overall less competitive compared to their starving artists peers.
If the gaming community is toxic it's because the twitch, youtube, and other companies rather milk their creators for every dime and watch them self-destruct than share their profits, or any control over their platform. Unfortunately attracting more advertiser revenue by self-destructing less won't change things as the companies will only allow but so much of it to trickle down to their actual work force.
Bruh I got an ad for the stream upgrades app. Random actor nobodies saying they got 25k viewers on twitch cause of some website???? Why are their so many bullshit sites online now
Between Amazons awesome union busting and exclusive contracts being effectively dead, there is no hope for it not to pop.
Devin, I am a small time creator on twitch. I sometimes will stream a "Streaming 101" class for new streamers. The part of your video where you talk about professionalism would be PERFECT for me to show to people. Would you mind if I clipped some portion of that and showed it to my stream? I will give you full credit and provide a link to your youtube channel. I will let you know my twitch address if you'd like in the responses as I don't want to self advertise.
yes
I wonder if devin replies to comments
Esports/Gaming/Streaming now called "Gaming Industry" in this video, will not go anywhere then where they are right now, at least not in a foreseeable future.
The reason is that they are all based on big phat money hungry corporations and they don't want it to go anywhere outside of their control.
That's why Valve shutdown gambling websites, that's why Riot has a Franchised League, that's why Activision sends out boat loads of crap every year, that's why EA forces developers to do unnecessary money grabbing features, that's why Tencent owns shares on so many studios and publishers.
They are all making money, they will keep making it and continue this cicle.
Does the gaming industry even stand a chance?
We need to take responsibility for our future as gamers and content creators, have fun and don’t be a “dumbass”
Support indie devs!!!
The original thumbnail was way better
I think you could be the figure that helps guide the streaming community in a healthy direction. Get in contact with the radioactive brands, please.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't mean the 'entirety' of the gaming industry does it? (which has been around for 40+ years)
I imagine Devin is only speaking to the specifics of the 'gaming media creators' industry, the streamers and such..
I need a patch that says "Old man yells at notepad"
isn't it against federal law to actively punish people for attempt to form or include yourself in a union?
What can I do? Asking for advice
Post more videos on here plz
Thumbnail and title game strong
On the topic of toxicity.
The problem is there's no one to reign these shitheads in. Look at pro sports, you have your player do stupid shit, the organization will pull that leash in.
We don't have that in gaming. It's also propagated by viewers who fund these shit heads just because they're amused by the unprofessional behavior. There's no gate to prevent anyone from streaming and no leash on these kids when they do.
Look at the serious allegations recently. These people think they're hot shit with no consequences because they're in their bedroom in front of a computer having their ego propped up by people they don't know... And there's nothing to bring these people back down to earn until it's too late.
The only change that can come about is if twitch, youtube, other big streaming sites enforce some degree of professionalism... Which none of them would ever want to take such a controversial and active role. It's simply a bad business model. So I don't see anything significant changing any time soon.
You be the leadership of the union! They will listen to Grand Master Devin!
Experimenting with thumbnails huh. I prefer this one with the coffin cuz idk who that guy that you put on the previous thumbnail was and I didn't even bother clicking.
Before watching the video my first thoughts are that the gaming industry needs a massive overhaul in the sense its over valuing things because of the slippery slope of mtx and always pushing to make more when more wasn't needed for the development. I think way to much money is wasted on upper levels of business men that offer nothing to the product and just cause the product to need to make more money.
Jim Sterling talks on many of these points its nothing new and its kind of getting worse as time goes on. Look to sports games for example the company is so over saturated with "investors" that they can't even keep talent on hand to make there games and now they just out source it to companies that make cheap product rehashes.
I think in the short future we will see return to smaller indie dev games that still value what they give there communities and aren't over saturated with people that have money and just want more money at any expense of the brand. Now change my mind..
Off topic kinda, kinda not, advertising as a whole I don't think makes near what it used to. I think ads before kind of tricked people into buying things they don't need to some degree and because of social media and time spent within it people are almost wising up to being tricked into something.
Think youtube thumbnail progression in the last few years its like when people see how the ads work they don't work unless its a product you actually are looking for. In this sense I think a lot of industries that rely on advertising as a large part of there revenue will be in trouble.
Does this mean games should cost more probably but mtx is so manipulative in many cases that there still needs to be regulations because to many companies take the piss at the expense of people. I'd like to see the world of gaming return to an upfront cost, proper dlc (actual game content) or a monthly sub if they think they offer value for it. WoW having a sub is acceptable but swtor having a sub is not. I want to see some guidelines set out that in basic terms make sure you get some level of gameplay value for your money and not some kind of illusionary cosmetic value created by tweaking a few numbers to make an item rare.
Oh you mean save creator ad monetization not game companies from losing money from loot boxes lol
Same shit really advertising as a whole doesn't work like it used to. Just think about yourself how many commercials have you clicked on lately. I feel like 10 years ago a big mac commercial made me hungry but now I just want to skip the ad or click off the video or get pissed off your stuck watching it and want the product less. Even if its a 30 youtube sponsorship how many people just skip 30 seconds ahead.
Sure you can get interesting creative ads like angryjoe ones that make you want to watch but I still don't think you can be influenced into getting something you don't need as much anymore either. What that means long term for creators who knows I always liked the idea of patreon type creator money making over pushing product people don't need through ads.
nice title actually
Devin:Merch sell is nothing.
pewdiepie:hold my beer
Devin is a salary and industry guy. He doesn't know anything about making money for yourself. It's not his forte. Even the deals he knows of; someone else took a cut.
any chance you could make these videos shorter there is lots of dead air when you dont speak that could be gotten rid of :)
Yes, this volatility is good, us noobs can use this.
Asmongold needs to start charging dr pepper for promoting them for 20+ years same with trainwreckstv and coke.
lol @ everyones fighting for their own scraps at the table
I've saved the gaming industy where is my medal at
5:40
You should do a video for streamers who have come up with original ideas/approaches, but are having a hard time getting discovered despite having a balanced stream (streaming vs content creation) and need a little guidance as to how to get that initial foundation of viewers built! Thanks for all you do Dev!
Well pretty much what I have been thinking about dailey for the last couple weeks...I do not know if it is possible for esports to grow on twitch unless certain things change. Just chatting leaves open a huge world of controversy and well things that you do not see on espn and sportscenter. Although some find twitch rivals cool I always see it as twitch capitalising on hype for a game that has usually been recently released, basically not alot of competative integrity to it. Alot of esports teams have also started to go as young as they can to get the best performances possible which can lead to a mentally unstable person being thrown into the lime light. I think the biggest problem is the ip differences from sport...and I think the capitalistic side just out right kills any abilites to grow if not handled with care. Alot of things need to happen for gaming to be a serious venture for more people in the future...My biggest thought was that one day I would be able to either drive into a stadium in rocket league to watch a game....or go down to your local esports venue to watch a laser projected game. Sorry I know I am a dreamer lol
devin didnt like how the means of production were distributed in this debate
I know because i put a 100%
This really shed a lot of light on so many things I hadn’t considered, thanks Devin. Spooky stuff
This thumbnail must've taken ages to make, poggers dud
Damn...
good vid
Ok, so if you want twitch to not be seen as a toxic environment, get twitch to stop putting chat with me as I flash my body suggestively to you, as the top channels when you log in. You also need to get the criminals off the platform. No one wants to go against RIAA because someone who was on a platform that lets stuff go on like react videos, that are 1 or 2 sentences on a 2 1/2 hour copyrighted movie or entire cd label.
its fine man, gamers score high on disagreeableness ofc they know that. normal adds dont work on our demographic
its like you said. you suggest we improve, people will argue why we shouldnt. :P disagreeable
??? Merch sales per individual are a larger part of their pie. Selling product direct to consumer...
Affiliate programs...
Donations. Creator Codes... Salaries/employment... Coaching/teaching/consulting.... Graphics, Editing... Rig building...
Seems like you're only thinking in your own box. The industry is much larger than your own experience.
You didn't even mention Real Estate/property rental... There's a lot more revenue stream ingrained in the industry that you neglected or naively must not know about...
Oh, i get why you are saying such misguided statements now... You spend so much of your own experience in the drama that your perspective is skewed from the reality of the larger industry as a whole.
Your life would be happier if you paid less attention to the negative drama of other people's lives.
Gaming industry is fine. Streamers are going bye bye.
We're reaching peak disheveled Devin.
Been saying for months that communities kill games. ESPECIALLY free games.
Honestly, the qualifications and standards to be a broadcaster should be increased. This can sound a little mean but, from a business standpoint, streams that arent for real trying to make money should nt be grouped with streams that are. The idea that Twitch just lets a person try forever, without demanding unwatched streams to change or try something different or delete unwatched accounts after 6 months and make them start over is, just a little silly. I almost think a subscription model to twitch, where you pay to watch the better streams, and all other streamers are grouped together would better serve Twitch. The idea that " I want to be a gamer" streams are also grouped with "maybe someone will want to watch me play around" streams, is kinda silly.
The qualifications to be a professional gamer should go beyond "is good at 'insert game name'" Let's be honest. Being good at a video game does not mean you know how to make money. I can name 5 professional gamers. Thats it. thats all I can think of. how many are there supposed to be? Those people have no idea how to get their name out there. They literally dont do anything but, play that game. Unless a persons interest is exactly what that pro gamer plays, they will never get discovered.
Most people arent business minded. Most people, especially in Twitch's broadcast industry, which is where most of gaming lives, are just as self oriented as you said, will try to get money in any way possible, and were raised in a culture where any exposure is good exposure, as long as your name is out there.
They dont understand that the money they receive from this is the 1/2 of a percent, that you spoke of as merchandising. yet, most people are so greedy or, just plain starving, that they cant skip the little money to get to the big money.
The type of intelligence you are talking of wont come from the average broadcaster Mr Nash. That type of intelligence realizes there isnt any money to be made in Twitch broadcasting or gaming in general.
Asmongold taught me the importance of not washing your hands after you pee. I'm glad he's one of the platforms biggest personalities. Thank you Asmon. :)
Gaming industry is fine , e-sports and content creators are irrelevant in the gaming industry.
couldint agree more... people are loving games and playing more and more as tech get better... what we are starting to not care about is watching people who are not even talented at games playing.... if you were getting money to play games you should be thankful most are totally irrelivant unless you are one of the best players in the world.. we dont need more IRL streams or people on youtube pushing trashy mobile games.... seems like all these streamers are just starting to realize they are a dime a dozen... if you think you will stream forever as your job your are very mistaken.. it is totally a bubble and it will burst with only the best players or most interesting and entertaining content creators left.
captinturtle1 with the EZ money
Ok, you got me. I clicked