this was such a good accompaniment to my dinner tonight!! i’ve always seen vivienne westwood around the punk and alt sub genre, especially with the anime/manga nana getting popular again, i’m so in awe of the woman behind the work, she truly is an inspiration, i am definitely a viviene convert and will try to delve deeper into her work.
I’m Oglala Sioux and I honestly find admiration in artists taking inspiration from my people. “Appropriation” is subjective. The current flock seems to look at punk with their modern politicized standards. Punk was provocative. Rebelling against the former hippy saturated, passive mentality and counter culture. It was a form of liberation. The fashion embodied this mental & physical liberation through statements to confuse, disrupt/shock and make the suppressed minds question. The incorporation of things like swastikas, inverted symbolism, bondage, corporate and military/totalitarian styles. It had tones of irony and humor. Punk was a fashion & music movement but all in all it was a mentality. The media I believe coined the term punk. So, Vivian and Malcom basically commodified and capitalized off the punk fashion and music. Thats why Malcom wanted to start a “boy band” aka Sex Pistols. Bands created manifestos and wrote about their political ideologies and some were just full of angst and humor. How can we slap those in the past with the current constant politicized mentality? A lot that we deem politically incorrect back then wasn’t even a form of thought. Anyway, long rant. I just speak for myself as someone who’s listened to punk, post punk, goth and new wave etc. since I was 14 and now 26. Social media’s has a newfound interest in punk aesthetic without the interest in what, where and why. Hmm appropriation much?? in all seriousness, im not serious or am I?
Completely agree that “appropriation” is subjective, but I certainly think that working with people in the culture you’re interested in, learning traditional methods, and involving people in the process, as well as properly crediting inspiration are much more in the appreciation side, rather than copying something and claiming as your own. In terms of looking at the past through modern perspectives, those are interesting musings. I do think it’s valuable to contextualize the time and place that birthed certain art, as the people of the present will always process the past with modern sensibilities. Thank you for listening and commenting 😊
thanks for making my art assignment for researching an artist more bearable with this really well made and interesting video :) i love vivienne and this video helped me to learn so much more about her !!
Taken too long? You were dealing with a concussion and were sick. You need to take all the time you need to rest and recover. Your health and wellbeing are #1and if you don’t have that all else suffers. Loved this podcast episode ❤️🔥
Also awesome video! Very informative and i love the more socio political exploration of the world in which her art existed too i love how indepth this is with her history and history of her inspiration Also note on appropriation, its not just adopting a culture's items into one's art. Its when you take something and "pervert it", eg qipao. Making a qipao inspired item and crediting chinese fashion history is appreciation, sexualising it and not crediting the culture from where it came is appropriation. Same with closed practices. Esp if the appropriator is one who has more systemic power to influence. Its the power dynamics and the mutual consent of mutual understanding. Im a loyal fan now within 30 minutes.
16:20 "art is eternally self-referential and policing it is against the very nature of art" girl... THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST DID! Galliano for Dior, Gaultier in his prime, Westwood, McQueen...wouldn't have their most iconic collections if they listened to your pontification about cultural appropriation. You think you're virtue signalling how sensitive you are to marginalized groups but you're really just stifling creativity and setting up a slippery slope argument where the inverse could happen and westerners could gatekeep western fashion from the rest of the world.
Not sure if you watched the rest of the discussion on this, but I actually agree with you. However I do believe it is valuable to include context, and I don’t think this gate keeps or stifles it by encourage crediting and appreciating the inspiration. I think it enriches art to carry on its evolution without forgetting its past! 😊
@@bymayaginzburg I did watch the rest. I'm surprised you agree with me. You also said something like, the line between inspiration and appropriation is razor thin and I would err on the side of caution. That doesn't really convey agreement. This mentality of being afraid of offending is probably one of the main reasons why current fashion is boring and there's not a lot of unique POVs. And that's just my opinion on it.
@@andrewjones9991 I think the line is thin, and erring on the side of caution is taking the space to reference and research the history of your inspiration. Perhaps I could have said it in more words, but I think that if you’re not willing or able to respect and pay homage your inspiration properly, you might as well not do it. Even outside of cultural things (art styles, design aesthetics, literature, music etc), not crediting those who came before you is in equally poor taste, just not as controversial. At the end of the day, it is up to each artist to be able to respect themselves and their own work within their sphere. These are my personal feelings upon it. We all answer to ourselves in the end right?
“she was vivienne, long before she became vivienne westwood” beautiful
thank you! 😊
this was such a good accompaniment to my dinner tonight!! i’ve always seen vivienne westwood around the punk and alt sub genre, especially with the anime/manga nana getting popular again, i’m so in awe of the woman behind the work, she truly is an inspiration, i am definitely a viviene convert and will try to delve deeper into her work.
I’m Oglala Sioux and I honestly find admiration in artists taking inspiration from my people. “Appropriation” is subjective. The current flock seems to look at punk with their modern politicized standards. Punk was provocative. Rebelling against the former hippy saturated, passive mentality and counter culture. It was a form of liberation. The fashion embodied this mental & physical liberation through statements to confuse, disrupt/shock and make the suppressed minds question. The incorporation of things like swastikas, inverted symbolism, bondage, corporate and military/totalitarian styles. It had tones of irony and humor. Punk was a fashion & music movement but all in all it was a mentality. The media I believe coined the term punk.
So, Vivian and Malcom basically commodified and capitalized off the punk fashion and music. Thats why Malcom wanted to start a “boy band” aka Sex Pistols. Bands created manifestos and wrote about their political ideologies and some were just full of angst and humor.
How can we slap those in the past with the current constant politicized mentality? A lot that we deem politically incorrect back then wasn’t even a form of thought. Anyway, long rant. I just speak for myself as someone who’s listened to punk, post punk, goth and new wave etc. since I was 14 and now 26. Social media’s has a newfound interest in punk aesthetic without the interest in what, where and why. Hmm appropriation much?? in all seriousness, im not serious or am I?
Completely agree that “appropriation” is subjective, but I certainly think that working with people in the culture you’re interested in, learning traditional methods, and involving people in the process, as well as properly crediting inspiration are much more in the appreciation side, rather than copying something and claiming as your own. In terms of looking at the past through modern perspectives, those are interesting musings. I do think it’s valuable to contextualize the time and place that birthed certain art, as the people of the present will always process the past with modern sensibilities. Thank you for listening and commenting 😊
😂 they're not smart enough. But welcome to the club Hun😉🖤✨
Btw I wasn't being unkind. I meant I thought ur post was intelligent and unfortunately the people that need to read it won't read it through ✨🖤✨
thanks for making my art assignment for researching an artist more bearable with this really well made and interesting video :) i love vivienne and this video helped me to learn so much more about her !!
so glad to hear that! If you need to find any of the references, make sure to check the description 😊
@@bymayaginzburg thankyou!!
Taken too long? You were dealing with a concussion and were sick. You need to take all the time you need to rest and recover.
Your health and wellbeing are #1and if you don’t have that all else suffers.
Loved this podcast episode ❤️🔥
Wow, ‘same princess, different planet’ a great sartorial maxim!
Also awesome video! Very informative and i love the more socio political exploration of the world in which her art existed too i love how indepth this is with her history and history of her inspiration
Also note on appropriation, its not just adopting a culture's items into one's art. Its when you take something and "pervert it", eg qipao. Making a qipao inspired item and crediting chinese fashion history is appreciation, sexualising it and not crediting the culture from where it came is appropriation. Same with closed practices. Esp if the appropriator is one who has more systemic power to influence. Its the power dynamics and the mutual consent of mutual understanding. Im a loyal fan now within 30 minutes.
what a lovely and insightful comment! Glad you enjoyed, more episodes coming soon :)
“Airing on the side of caution” was def not her style. Love the video!
loved this video, thank you!
So here for this fashion history content! Thank uuu
@@kalyssaromero8343 thank you! New episode coming next week :)
I love this series I hope u keep it up
Thank you for this video!!!!
Your channel is a gem
Great work
❤!!
Yeahhh he was a dick. Sorry. Imagine what she could have accomplished with a loving supportive partner 😢❤
16:20 "art is eternally self-referential and policing it is against the very nature of art"
girl... THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST DID!
Galliano for Dior, Gaultier in his prime, Westwood, McQueen...wouldn't have their most iconic collections if they listened to your pontification about cultural appropriation.
You think you're virtue signalling how sensitive you are to marginalized groups but you're really just stifling creativity and setting up a slippery slope argument where the inverse could happen and westerners could gatekeep western fashion from the rest of the world.
Not sure if you watched the rest of the discussion on this, but I actually agree with you. However I do believe it is valuable to include context, and I don’t think this gate keeps or stifles it by encourage crediting and appreciating the inspiration. I think it enriches art to carry on its evolution without forgetting its past! 😊
@@bymayaginzburg I did watch the rest. I'm surprised you agree with me. You also said something like, the line between inspiration and appropriation is razor thin and I would err on the side of caution. That doesn't really convey agreement. This mentality of being afraid of offending is probably one of the main reasons why current fashion is boring and there's not a lot of unique POVs.
And that's just my opinion on it.
@@andrewjones9991 I think the line is thin, and erring on the side of caution is taking the space to reference and research the history of your inspiration. Perhaps I could have said it in more words, but I think that if you’re not willing or able to respect and pay homage your inspiration properly, you might as well not do it. Even outside of cultural things (art styles, design aesthetics, literature, music etc), not crediting those who came before you is in equally poor taste, just not as controversial.
At the end of the day, it is up to each artist to be able to respect themselves and their own work within their sphere. These are my personal feelings upon it. We all answer to ourselves in the end right?
Sad, her brand is dead now.. despite co-deign with her husband, Andrea didnt do her justice and he make her brand look like worse.