Awesome work & demonstration & filming & editing & presentation, explanation of the math & trig to get there. Great skills on every aspect. Now I just need to fill my ears with cotton wool, and take a wee nap, because my brain is bleeding from my ears trying to understand it all and is literally exhausted & needs a rest - & I only woke up 2 hours ago, so that’s how taxing it was trying to understand it all. Kudos to you for even being able to figure all this out, let alone actually do it.
Thank you very much! I used the copper wire rack model because it is very visual and gets the idea over without heavy maths. The gear cutting attachment does all the complex maths creating the involute for you, you don't need to understand how it does it, it just does!
That's just the ticket for a home shop to cut a one-off gear for a machine in need of help. Too often there aren't parts for sale for old machines, at any price. Thank you for the spectacular work proving it can be done!
Thank you! I designed the gear cutting attachment for the shaper because I dislikes having to spend out on a cutter for every gear I needed! Its come in useful, cutting non standard DPs for replacement gears to replace a lathe helical back gear with a spur gear - before I'd worked out how to do helicals with it. In principle, it should be capable of doing profile shifted gears too.
You managed to make the first gear tooth cutting video that I fully understood so well done and thankyou very much. Sliding that external gear into the internal one must have been incredibly satisfying. Very cool indeed Thankyou for sharing
Thank you! Gears can be quite a mathematical subject. Glad you found this understandable. And yes, when I tried sliding the gears together I did not expect such a good fit. I obviously got lucky!
I’ve tried to work that out for some time, I really appreciate that you demonstrated that process. I am going to use your method. I have never been interested in an approximate gear tooth form. You have given me a huge leg up.
Awesome!!!.....Thanks so much Robert for all your hard work in making this video. As with other comments you can clearly see that the set up takes an ENORMOUS amount of time. The results are excellent. I personally liked this video in one part. I put this particular installment on hold until now so that I could watch it on a relaxing Saturday afternoon.🤓👍🏻
@@GenauMann Thanks for the feedback, glad you liked it. I was really happy with the way it turned out. The next video will be delayed as I'm in the process of changing lathes.
Extremeley impressive! Thank you for showing us mere mortals what could be done. I think those two gears need to be mounted in a frame and hung in the workshop.
@@thomasstover6272 Hi Tom, you're welcome. I couldn't find much regarding the math of internal gear teeth, so I went with a simple illustration that I think worked pretty well, for me at least!
Thank you. All the side projects done off camera took most of the time. Not including of course the 3 months it took me to make the shaper gear cutting attachment a couple of years ago.
You are most welcome! They are a bit old fashioned, but can do some jobs that might otherwise be awkward. Just takes a bit of imagination... and a lot of time!
That was awesome! Phenomenal what can be done! I expect that the back rake on the involute cutter could be ground in at the same time as the involute profile, but it would necessitate angling the tool being ground (say an angle of 5 degrees), and it would also require calculating and machining a different pressure angle for that angle, such that when the tool was placed back in the vertical orientation it would cut the correct profile. The benefit of this is that it could be sharpened multiple times and still retain the correct profile, similar to how involute gear cutters can be sharpened while retaining the correct profile.
@@marcsimonsen1578 Thanks! Yes, I considered angling things to grind the relief but it complicates grinding the other side of the tool as you cant just index round. You have to rotate the fixture and line things up, unless the pivot point is bang on the middle of the leading edge of the tool. It all took far too long to finesse everything so I went for the quick option!
Well that was a lovely job Robert. The way that spur gear slid into the ring gear was confirmation of the time spent on the calculations and setup. For me you could do a full series on how to do the calculations for various types of gears. Toms Rabbit Hole does some wonderful gear setup and cutting as well with his homebuilt hobbing machine, but this seems to be a more achievable way for us mere mortals.
Thanks Bill. Yeah, the fit of those gears was really pleasing! It would be nice to do something with the ring gear, but there's a problem... I've just bought another lathe!!
@ThePottingShedWorkshop Yeah, I've got one too many lathes at the moment. I'm hoping the old Roundhead Triumph will be going soonish, I'm desperate for space. Looking forward to seeing the new machine in harness.
Excellent video as always great explanation and camera work. I have ran across the micrometer barrel line disappearing act many times I have had starrett barrels walk out away from the frame when you turn to adjust them to zero. You might see a slight crack between them so if you push the barrel to the frame as you turn to adjust to zero the line will be uncovered again just a thought thanks again hope you have a merry Christmas ed
Morning Robert, set up DAAAYS😅. As always very interesting, nice to see you master a new technique. Gears would look good in different coloured anodising. Keep them coming
@@Griffon37 Thanks Jon. The whole saga took about 3 weeks. I've got footage that didnt make it to the final cut as it was a distraction, like the grinder motor shaft shearing off and me having to repair it! The next video will be delayed - I've acquired a better condition M300 so will be doing that up. That'll prob be the subject of the next video.
Bonjour , très intéressante approche du taillage de roue , votre maîtrise es impressionnante,vos vidéo et votre travail sont d’une grande qualité et mettent votre grande expérience et maîtrise de l’usinage à l’ancienne en avant . Merci pour votre partage de connaissances . Cordialement Thierry.
Installing the grinding wheel as a shaper tool was a key feature. Could you have dressed the wheel straight and just rotate the wheel during the tool grind? Setting up side offset and height however might have been just as much work as dressing the wheel to the angle. Now next request: Make a 2 stage planetary gear box 🙂! Fantastic video.
@@timogross8191 You could I guess, but it complicates things when you move to grinding the other side of the tool. With the bevel ground on both sides you simply have to rotate the toolbit with the dividing head. If the wheel is angled you have to rotate it to grind the second side of the tool losing all positional references which you then have to reestablish. No doubt it would work, just replaces one problem with another! Gear cutting will have to wait I'm afraid. I've got a new to me lathe in the workshop. I think it'll be getting a strip down, clean, paint and reassemble. I should have it done by the summer!
Thank you. I'm sure it could be improved upon. This was a result of my first ideas. Having done it, I now know lots of things I should or could have done. Bear in mind the weight is tiny compared to the cutting forces that a shaper, even a small one like mine, can generate!
I can fully appreciate why they ended up using such an odd spindle bearing arrangement. there's only so much you can do on a refit. One thing of note. If the deep groove ball bearing can float the inner race can move away from the outer causing significantly more clearance that it's factory amount. It's possible to go from 5um clearance to a few thousands if it's floating. At a minumum you'd want the inner race hard against the shaft step and a spring washer on the outer race between the bearing and the outer boss that bolts on the front housing. With this odd bearing arrangement, I'd say it's imperative to have preload on the front deep groove ball bearing. A spring washer (a lighter version of a belleville washer) will accomplish this. If you've never seen them, look up wavy spring washer or bearing spring washer and you'll find they are readily available. You want ones made from carbon steel. For some reason there are a lot of stainless steel ones coming out of China, they don't hold their shape and won't do the job properly. They are thin, probably less than 0.060" thick in this size. It's possible you might need to machine a bit off the front bolt in boss face to make room (maybe not). As your spindle is it's possible that the balls aren't always in gull contact with the bearing grooves. When loaded they will contact but not in thecorrect position and this will vary even more over time. Even the smallest, lightest er collet spindles. The ones made for use in a lathe with an overhead drive (also rose engine lathes, ornamental lathes) use the wavy washer in their deep groove ball bearing spindles. Without one spindle will have radial movement, bearings will get damaged and sooner than later it will affect performance. Sorry to ramble on, i would just hate to see the spindle damaged.
Amazing work! You are on another level! Are there any resources you can share from this? I'm trying to take it all in. How did you set up the formulas in your spreadsheet? Thank you and all the best, looking forward to more quality content!
‘Gears and Gear Cutting’ by Ivan Law is a good place to start for the conventional methods use to cut spur gears in the home workshop. I’m not sure he goes into ring gears though.
A tour de force Robert. It is a long video but viewers can just stop at a convenient point. Not taking anything away from the painstaking approach you took but I wonder how close one could get by generating the cutter profile in CAD then grinding the tool by eye, certainly some good magnification would be required.
@@tonyray91 It is indeed a very helpful book but from memory I think he only deals with practical methods of cutting spur gears but not internal ring gears.
Thanks for watching! The spreadsheet is described in part 2 of the series of the shaper gear cutting attachment. For resources I've done a lot of searching on the internet, I've Ivan Law's book and used Machinerys Handbook too.
I like the full video format since I don't like cliffhangers. Is there a limit to how small an internal gear can be made using this technique, since I assume the tool would narrow towards the "root" (which would be the crest on the ring gear's teeth)? The wide area in the middle would cut away material that should be there on the theoretically correct shaped internal tooth crest, I assume. I don't know if that would ultimately matter, though.
Thanks for the feedback! I guess the lower limit for cutting internal gears with this technique will be hen a gear tooth starts to get undercut, so around 20T for a 20deg pressure angle. Such a small ring gear wouldnt be very useful though as the pinion it engages with has a size limit somewhere around half the number of teeth of the ring, as various interferences come into play.
@BronzeAgePuritan I have a technique to do this! Its the second technique for cutting internal gears that I didnt describe. I'll do a video on it one day, but that won't be for a while, as I've got a new to me lathe coming thats in better condition than my current one but it needs cleaning and fettling.
@@Griffon37 The workshop is well insulated, floor, walls and ceiling. The doors aren't too draughty. The day before the weather is due to warm up I run my 3kW fan heater - its on the floor behind the mill - for a few hours and wince at the cost, but, hey ho, needs must. Not 100% effective as a couple of chucks got a few brown tinges, but generally it's ok.
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop Thanks Robert, really wished I had done more in insulation when I built the garage, I do have a cavity i could fill but not sure on that one, but the 3KW heater is something I have been looking at. Cheers Jon
@@BOBPortlandOr Quicker and easier if you have a gear hobber. I got fed up of spending out on a cutter for nearly every gear I needed to make. I made some backgears for a lathe to replace the chipped cast iron ones. The owner was quoted over £1000 / $1200 for bespoke commercially made ones, more than the lathe was worth. You'd gripe at that!!
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Awesome work & demonstration & filming & editing & presentation, explanation of the math & trig to get there. Great skills on every aspect.
Now I just need to fill my ears with cotton wool, and take a wee nap, because my brain is bleeding from my ears trying to understand it all and is literally exhausted & needs a rest - & I only woke up 2 hours ago, so that’s how taxing it was trying to understand it all.
Kudos to you for even being able to figure all this out, let alone actually do it.
Thank you very much! I used the copper wire rack model because it is very visual and gets the idea over without heavy maths. The gear cutting attachment does all the complex maths creating the involute for you, you don't need to understand how it does it, it just does!
I always find your videos are both informative and interesting, They give me inspiration to have a go myself. Thanks
@@richardvoller9204 Thank you! Whatever it is you want to try, give it a go. You just might surprise yourself and succeed!
It was very nicely done, always inspirational to watch you work on your projects
Thank you! I'm trying to make videos that show something a bit different.
That's just the ticket for a home shop to cut a one-off gear for a machine in need of help. Too often there aren't parts for sale for old machines, at any price. Thank you for the spectacular work proving it can be done!
Thank you! I designed the gear cutting attachment for the shaper because I dislikes having to spend out on a cutter for every gear I needed! Its come in useful, cutting non standard DPs for replacement gears to replace a lathe helical back gear with a spur gear - before I'd worked out how to do helicals with it. In principle, it should be capable of doing profile shifted gears too.
You managed to make the first gear tooth cutting video that I fully understood so well done and thankyou very much.
Sliding that external gear into the internal one must have been incredibly satisfying. Very cool indeed
Thankyou for sharing
Thank you! Gears can be quite a mathematical subject. Glad you found this understandable.
And yes, when I tried sliding the gears together I did not expect such a good fit. I obviously got lucky!
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop Thats not luck thats skill and accuracy
I’m fascinated with how you generated an involute form cutter. Amazing work, thank you for sharing.
Thank you. Grinding the cutter was a logical follow up to cutting gears with the shaper.
I’ve tried to work that out for some time, I really appreciate that you demonstrated that process. I am going to use your method. I have never been interested in an approximate gear tooth form. You have given me a huge leg up.
Awesome!!!.....Thanks so much Robert for all your hard work in making this video. As with other comments you can clearly see that the set up takes an ENORMOUS amount of time. The results are excellent.
I personally liked this video in one part. I put this particular installment on hold until now so that I could watch it on a relaxing Saturday afternoon.🤓👍🏻
@@GenauMann Thanks for the feedback, glad you liked it. I was really happy with the way it turned out. The next video will be delayed as I'm in the process of changing lathes.
Gday, certainly a ton of work in setup but with all the effort, the fit between the 2 couldn’t be better, great job mate, cheers
Always the same- hours of setup and minutes of cutting.
Thanks! I was chuffed with the way it came out.
Hours of setup? Days, weeks?😂
hello Matty, nice to see you here too.
Extremeley impressive! Thank you for showing us mere mortals what could be done.
I think those two gears need to be mounted in a frame and hung in the workshop.
Thank you! The gears are in the collection of useless ones I've cut on the shaper, along with the 9 1/2 tooth gear!!
Thanks, Robert, and well-done as always! I appreciate the theory work, too!
@@thomasstover6272 Hi Tom, you're welcome. I couldn't find much regarding the math of internal gear teeth, so I went with a simple illustration that I think worked pretty well, for me at least!
Excellent video, very interesting part. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Thank you and thanks for watching!
this was again very interesting. and indeed often the setup takes more time than the work👍🏻
Thank you. All the side projects done off camera took most of the time. Not including of course the 3 months it took me to make the shaper gear cutting attachment a couple of years ago.
Like the inteligence. Simple made tools not over complicating! Like your vids!
Thank you very much!
Really interesting video and very informative. Thanks!
@@DudleyToolwright Thank you. I haven't seen any other videos on making these, so I thought it would be interesting.
Thanks for your time sir . Its great job to see what I can do with my shaper
You are most welcome! They are a bit old fashioned, but can do some jobs that might otherwise be awkward. Just takes a bit of imagination... and a lot of time!
Well, that sure is an interesting experiment.
A bit of fun to keep you all entertained😁
That was awesome! Phenomenal what can be done! I expect that the back rake on the involute cutter could be ground in at the same time as the involute profile, but it would necessitate angling the tool being ground (say an angle of 5 degrees), and it would also require calculating and machining a different pressure angle for that angle, such that when the tool was placed back in the vertical orientation it would cut the correct profile. The benefit of this is that it could be sharpened multiple times and still retain the correct profile, similar to how involute gear cutters can be sharpened while retaining the correct profile.
@@marcsimonsen1578 Thanks! Yes, I considered angling things to grind the relief but it complicates grinding the other side of the tool as you cant just index round. You have to rotate the fixture and line things up, unless the pivot point is bang on the middle of the leading edge of the tool. It all took far too long to finesse everything so I went for the quick option!
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop I get the long setup time! What you demonstrated was excellent!
Great video. Nice explanation of everything.
Thanks! I try and keep the explanations simple.
Amazing work,Robert.Thank you.
Thank you for watching. Glad you liked it!
Well that was a lovely job Robert. The way that spur gear slid into the ring gear was confirmation of the time spent on the calculations and setup. For me you could do a full series on how to do the calculations for various types of gears.
Toms Rabbit Hole does some wonderful gear setup and cutting as well with his homebuilt hobbing machine, but this seems to be a more achievable way for us mere mortals.
Thanks Bill. Yeah, the fit of those gears was really pleasing! It would be nice to do something with the ring gear, but there's a problem... I've just bought another lathe!!
@ThePottingShedWorkshop Yeah, I've got one too many lathes at the moment. I'm hoping the old Roundhead Triumph will be going soonish, I'm desperate for space. Looking forward to seeing the new machine in harness.
Excellent video as always great explanation and camera work. I have ran across the micrometer barrel line disappearing act many times I have had starrett barrels walk out away from the frame when you turn to adjust them to zero. You might see a slight crack between them so if you push the barrel to the frame as you turn to adjust to zero the line will be uncovered again just a thought thanks again hope you have a merry Christmas ed
this was an awesome video. I always want to know how gears were made. I would love to see how ring and pinion axle gears are made.
Thank you! I've got several videos on cutting gears, spur gears and helicals, with the shaper, including the maths behind the gear train setup.
Morning Robert, set up DAAAYS😅. As always very interesting, nice to see you master a new technique. Gears would look good in different coloured anodising.
Keep them coming
@@Griffon37 Thanks Jon. The whole saga took about 3 weeks. I've got footage that didnt make it to the final cut as it was a distraction, like the grinder motor shaft shearing off and me having to repair it! The next video will be delayed - I've acquired a better condition M300 so will be doing that up. That'll prob be the subject of the next video.
Very impressive, Philadelphia Pennsylvania, USA
Thank you!
Bonjour , très intéressante approche du taillage de roue , votre maîtrise es impressionnante,vos vidéo et votre travail sont d’une grande qualité et mettent votre grande expérience et maîtrise de l’usinage à l’ancienne en avant . Merci pour votre partage de connaissances . Cordialement Thierry.
Merci beaucoup!
Really interesting, thank you. 👏🏼👍🏻
@@stephenperry5849 Thank you! Something a little different I hope.
Awesome work!
Thank you!
Installing the grinding wheel as a shaper tool was a key feature. Could you have dressed the wheel straight and just rotate the wheel during the tool grind? Setting up side offset and height however might have been just as much work as dressing the wheel to the angle. Now next request: Make a 2 stage planetary gear box 🙂! Fantastic video.
@@timogross8191 You could I guess, but it complicates things when you move to grinding the other side of the tool. With the bevel ground on both sides you simply have to rotate the toolbit with the dividing head. If the wheel is angled you have to rotate it to grind the second side of the tool losing all positional references which you then have to reestablish. No doubt it would work, just replaces one problem with another!
Gear cutting will have to wait I'm afraid. I've got a new to me lathe in the workshop. I think it'll be getting a strip down, clean, paint and reassemble. I should have it done by the summer!
Very nice work sir
💯💯💯🤸♂🤸♂🤸♂🌟🌟🌟
Thanks!
Just Genius
the amazing grinder setup is a lump to be held off the Lantern, perhaps a block mount to replace the clapper would be more rigid ??
Thank you.
I'm sure it could be improved upon. This was a result of my first ideas. Having done it, I now know lots of things I should or could have done.
Bear in mind the weight is tiny compared to the cutting forces that a shaper, even a small one like mine, can generate!
Well done
Well done!
Thank you!
Bloody amazing.
Thank you!
I just realized the method you used to grind the cutter, could be applied to finish grind OD gear teeth, after heat treating by using a shaper.
@@someguy1508 Yup! One day when a machine of mine needs a hardened gear I'll have all the tools I'll need to replace it.
I can fully appreciate why they ended up using such an odd spindle bearing arrangement. there's only so much you can do on a refit.
One thing of note. If the deep groove ball bearing can float the inner race can move away from the outer causing significantly more clearance that it's factory amount. It's possible to go from 5um clearance to a few thousands if it's floating. At a minumum you'd want the inner race hard against the shaft step and a spring washer on the outer race between the bearing and the outer boss that bolts on the front housing.
With this odd bearing arrangement, I'd say it's imperative to have preload on the front deep groove ball bearing. A spring washer (a lighter version of a belleville washer) will accomplish this. If you've never seen them, look up wavy spring washer or bearing spring washer and you'll find they are readily available. You want ones made from carbon steel. For some reason there are a lot of stainless steel ones coming out of China, they don't hold their shape and won't do the job properly. They are thin, probably less than 0.060" thick in this size. It's possible you might need to machine a bit off the front bolt in boss face to make room (maybe not). As your spindle is it's possible that the balls aren't always in gull contact with the bearing grooves. When loaded they will contact but not in thecorrect position and this will vary even more over time.
Even the smallest, lightest er collet spindles. The ones made for use in a lathe with an overhead drive (also rose engine lathes, ornamental lathes) use the wavy washer in their deep groove ball bearing spindles.
Without one spindle will have radial movement, bearings will get damaged and sooner than later it will affect performance.
Sorry to ramble on, i would just hate to see the spindle damaged.
Amazing work! You are on another level! Are there any resources you can share from this? I'm trying to take it all in. How did you set up the formulas in your spreadsheet? Thank you and all the best, looking forward to more quality content!
‘Gears and Gear Cutting’ by Ivan Law is a good place to start for the conventional methods use to cut spur gears in the home workshop. I’m not sure he goes into ring gears though.
A tour de force Robert. It is a long video but viewers can just stop at a convenient point. Not taking anything away from the painstaking approach you took but I wonder how close one could get by generating the cutter profile in CAD then grinding the tool by eye, certainly some good magnification would be required.
@@tonyray91 It is indeed a very helpful book but from memory I think he only deals with practical methods of cutting spur gears but not internal ring gears.
@@tonyray91 CAD modelling would certainly be useful
Thanks for watching! The spreadsheet is described in part 2 of the series of the shaper gear cutting attachment. For resources I've done a lot of searching on the internet, I've Ivan Law's book and used Machinerys Handbook too.
Nice!
Thanks!
I like the full video format since I don't like cliffhangers. Is there a limit to how small an internal gear can be made using this technique, since I assume the tool would narrow towards the "root" (which would be the crest on the ring gear's teeth)? The wide area in the middle would cut away material that should be there on the theoretically correct shaped internal tooth crest, I assume. I don't know if that would ultimately matter, though.
Thanks for the feedback! I guess the lower limit for cutting internal gears with this technique will be hen a gear tooth starts to get undercut, so around 20T for a 20deg pressure angle. Such a small ring gear wouldnt be very useful though as the pinion it engages with has a size limit somewhere around half the number of teeth of the ring, as various interferences come into play.
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop next video: "cutting a helical internal ring gear"
@BronzeAgePuritan I have a technique to do this! Its the second technique for cutting internal gears that I didnt describe. I'll do a video on it one day, but that won't be for a while, as I've got a new to me lathe coming thats in better condition than my current one but it needs cleaning and fettling.
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop Congratulations on the new machine. It's always nice to get acquainted with a new friend.
Impressive
Thank you!
Robert having seen your workshop i forget to ask, winter is here how do you combat condensation?
@@Griffon37 The workshop is well insulated, floor, walls and ceiling. The doors aren't too draughty. The day before the weather is due to warm up I run my 3kW fan heater - its on the floor behind the mill - for a few hours and wince at the cost, but, hey ho, needs must. Not 100% effective as a couple of chucks got a few brown tinges, but generally it's ok.
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop
Thanks Robert, really wished I had done more in insulation when I built the garage, I do have a cavity i could fill but not sure on that one, but the 3KW heater is something I have been looking at.
Cheers Jon
I will never gripe at the price when I need to purchase a gear.
@@BOBPortlandOr Quicker and easier if you have a gear hobber. I got fed up of spending out on a cutter for nearly every gear I needed to make.
I made some backgears for a lathe to replace the chipped cast iron ones. The owner was quoted over £1000 / $1200 for bespoke commercially made ones, more than the lathe was worth. You'd gripe at that!!
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop Problem with the gear hobber is, it cannot do internal gears. (at least not as easy).
Nicely done..
Thank you, and thanks for watching!