Great video again. Complements too on the camera angles + editing of the shaper work , iv watched a lot if shaper footage from rustiknox , abom79 , steve summers , etc and your filming is amongst the most enjoyable. Mery Christmas , god bless
I learned metal work at school and the shaper was my favourite machine. We had to use it to make complex profile shapes - you never see that on YT videos. Its always just straight cuts
Good to see an old lineshaft shop running. We had one locally for many years. Three generations but the last family member died and it was sadly sold and dismantled and all the remaining machines were sold. Great job by the way!
Great video! The Shaper is a fantastic machine, I loved all the various camera angles, the motion of the crank is very interesting, could watch it all day. Very nice job, your keyway cutting set up worked great.
Again absolute magic watching you work and proving once again my personal adage,if you do not learn the very basics of engineering,machining,you can never progress in this wonderful trade i enjoyed for over 50 years,keep making these videos,it's my go to place
Hello Alec. What a fantastic film... From anvil to tool holder... yon must have had 3 weetabix ... swinging that hammer!!! ( im impressed how square and accurate it came out !) Then to make the cutting tool, set everything up and then cut the keyway. As ever an amazing, talented chap. Jim.
Nice to see that old shaper still doing real work. And it is so refreshing to see smithing working hand-in-hand with machining, just as it was in the late 1800's. All of the different camera angles were very helpful. Thanks for all the time you put into these videos and for keeping the best era of the mechanical arts alive.
While I love these old machines and have a library of machine books going back to the mid 1800s, as a “modern” machinist, I would go crazy using some of these machines. They work so slowly and the machinist had to stop so often to resharpen the carbon steel cutters, no high speed steel until the 1900s, that by today’s standards, nothing was getting done. It would drive me crazy to cut that key way that way. But these were the machines, going back to before 1850, that made the Industrial Revolution possible. It’s not that they were more patient back then. It was just the only way things could be done. I’m sure that 100 years from now, if we haven’t destroyed civilization first, that people will be looking at our most advanced CNC machinery the same way we’re looking at this and thinking at how patient we were waiting for the slow machines to finish.
@@iron_jonesy Chisel and file. Somewhat slower. We started with that in 1968 on my apprenticeship, drill, chisel and file the frame of a small G clamp. I never used that combined set of skills again. But shapers, though inefficient, are lovely machines.
Well done! Good job. As my grandfather from mother's side was a blacksmith, I liked to see the process of forging the tool, which came out really nice. There is a lot of memories of grandpa working with the hammer in his hand...
Was just imagining a Victorian James Bond strapped to a table being menaced by a villain and his giant shaper. "No, Mister Bond, I expect you to die. Just give me a moment to oil her up before I get her going."
That's a nice old machine.🙂 I am lucky enough to own a small 7" stroke Mit-a-Mit shaper, made here in Oz for the WW2 effort. It's meant to be mounted on a bench with the apron hanging over the side and has a hole in the top of the apron so a keyway can be cut into the end of a shaft. Mine was put on a floor pedestal. It's a great little machine to use and it does a wonderful job. 👍👍
My converted line shaft shaper, circa 1900 has an extra large lantern style holder, and my key cutter replaces that and is held in by a large nut behind the tool bar insert. Its 1 1/2 in dia or so, and has a 1/2 in insert for small keys Rustinox is a great source.
In north America they started phasing out shapers in favour of milling machines at the end of WWII. The adage was "you can make anything with a shaper except money". Today, there are dozens of people scrambling to restore shapers from the scrap heap because they have found that they are still the best thing for work like this. Yes, you can use a broach and a press, but how many broaches do you you want to make or buy and how many bushings do you want to have on the shelf? Yes you can use mill cutters to cut slots but how many do you want to buy in specific sizes to do a hundred different jobs? For this kind of work the shaper is still King.
really pleasing to watch this vid,, it makes you wonder at how good the old timers were at accuracy on the old style equipment. you're not bad either! slow and sure building ships ,, lathes etc, etc. what got a young guy like you interested in this old style stuff in the first place?? i have just used my SBW lathe and still love it. looking forward to more vids ,, cheers.👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks! I've always loved experimenting with old ways and always been keen on industrial history. I bought a few belt driven machines when I set up shop because they were cheap and very quickly became fascinated with line shafting and old machine tools. I guess it spiralled from there and its been one hell of learning curve!
That was a good watch. Thanks Remember what you think is bearing is all new to us (me). What I am getting at is if you could be more regular with the videos you will get more viewers (viewers = increased income). I think that what you do with the equipment you have weekly 30 minute+ videos + a bit of time - you are on a winner.
Yeah it's very close! There are certain combinations of ram position and stroke length where it will hit the wall, but I did a lot of working out and decided those rare times were worth the sacrifice to gain a bit more space in the middle of the shop!
Thanks! This machine is still in original condition, amazingly. It needs some work to get it perfect but it functions as is! Some of my machines have been ground up restorations but not all of them
Great question. I did consider it, but settled on the drill for two reasons. Firstly it makes it very simple to get square to the rest of the bar and secondly punching it would have caused the end of the bar to swell. While it wouldn't have been an issue here, the swelling could be a problem in the future if I need to get into a tighter spot. I could have ground/filed the swelling back but that's an extra step in an already slow process!
Cheers Alec - thank you for the informative and entertaining video. I was very impressed with the way that you forged the tool and the care taken to get the 90 degree angle so neat. I notice that your shaper takes the same time for the cutting stroke and the return. Am I right that later shapers were designed to have a faster return stroke?
I was counting the stroke time too and made it about 4 and a half Mississippi on the cut and 3.5 on the return ? You could see it does use the Whitworth Quick Return mechanism, but maybe it just looked equal cos of the slow speed ? Good point on upsetting the bar too, I snapped one of the "claws" off the end of my two legged bearing pullers (ground them too thin trying to make them fit !) and have been thinking the best way of turning a length of key steel into new legs.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. It does have a quicker return, but tricky to see at these speeds, as Graeme says. The stroke length also plays a role, on long stroke lengths the difference between cutting and return is a lot more noticeable! Most shapers used the Whitworth yoke mechanism, although many older travelling heads used an offset crank, which produces a similar quick return effect. Mine having the yoke under the ram is fairly unusual in that respect.
I wonder where you found that fine old machine? So much has been junked! While I daresay that you used an hss tool bit, plain carbon steel is entirely adequate at slow cutting speeds & can produce a finer finish.
This particular machine worked at Wildspur mill. This isn't its first time on youtube, there is a video of it in its original location, not running unfortunately, but there nonetheless. Ill dig out the link and post it. That workshop was eventually cleared and the shaper found its way to me via friends. Yes! plain carbon tooling is not something I've dabbled in to much, its too easy to reach into the hss drawer! Definitely a subject to visit another day!
There is something calming about watching old iron do its thing, particularly a shaper. Thank you.
Very nice. On a shaper you can make whatever you want. Just go for it.
And thanks for the nice shout out. I appreciate it.
Thanks for your video on shapers as well. That was very helpful.
Great video again.
Complements too on the camera angles + editing of the shaper work , iv watched a lot if shaper footage from rustiknox , abom79 , steve summers , etc and your filming is amongst the most enjoyable.
Mery Christmas , god bless
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
I never miss a shaper video. Seeing it done on an antique line shaft machine is just that much sweeter. Thanks
I learned metal work at school and the shaper was my favourite machine. We had to use it to make complex profile shapes - you never see that on YT videos. Its always just straight cuts
The old machines are awesome!. That is some really cool history you have there
It gives a Man a great sense of accomplishment when something he's building actually turns out nice... Job well done!
Good to see an old lineshaft shop running. We had one locally for many years. Three generations but the last family member died and it was sadly sold and dismantled and all the remaining machines were sold. Great job by the way!
Great video! The Shaper is a fantastic machine, I loved all the various camera angles, the motion of the crank is very interesting, could watch it all day. Very nice job, your keyway cutting set up worked great.
Again absolute magic watching you work and proving once again my personal adage,if you do not learn the very basics of engineering,machining,you can never progress in this wonderful trade i enjoyed for over 50 years,keep making these videos,it's my go to place
Hello Alec.
What a fantastic film... From anvil to tool holder... yon must have had 3 weetabix ... swinging that hammer!!! ( im impressed how square and accurate it came out !)
Then to make the cutting tool, set everything up and then cut the keyway. As ever an amazing, talented chap.
Jim.
Thank you!
great video. you have the shaper humming like a watch! great video production too, and explanation. many thanks.
Thanks!
Nice to see that old shaper still doing real work. And it is so refreshing to see smithing working hand-in-hand with machining, just as it was in the late 1800's. All of the different camera angles were very helpful. Thanks for all the time you put into these videos and for keeping the best era of the mechanical arts alive.
Thank you. Combining forgework and machining in a historic context is one of my favourite things to do.
While I love these old machines and have a library of machine books going back to the mid 1800s, as a “modern” machinist, I would go crazy using some of these machines. They work so slowly and the machinist had to stop so often to resharpen the carbon steel cutters, no high speed steel until the 1900s, that by today’s standards, nothing was getting done. It would drive me crazy to cut that key way that way. But these were the machines, going back to before 1850, that made the Industrial Revolution possible. It’s not that they were more patient back then. It was just the only way things could be done. I’m sure that 100 years from now, if we haven’t destroyed civilization first, that people will be looking at our most advanced CNC machinery the same way we’re looking at this and thinking at how patient we were waiting for the slow machines to finish.
Absolutely, its just a step up from doing it by hand!
We'll be right mate !!!
@@iron_jonesy Chisel and file. Somewhat slower. We started with that in 1968 on my apprenticeship, drill, chisel and file the frame of a small G clamp. I never used that combined set of skills again. But shapers, though inefficient, are lovely machines.
It's absolutely amazing to watch you make these machines dance. Thank you sir for sharing.
Well done! Good job. As my grandfather from mother's side was a blacksmith, I liked to see the process of forging the tool, which came out really nice. There is a lot of memories of grandpa working with the hammer in his hand...
Thank you Alec; entertaining and informative as always. May your cogs never stop turning.
First time I've seen the front mounts on the table used. Something most modern machines don't even have. Nicely done, a great watch.
That close up of the cutter going from left to right was really cool.
Love watching you using these ancient tools and getting awesome results!!!
Was just imagining a Victorian James Bond strapped to a table being menaced by a villain and his giant shaper. "No, Mister Bond, I expect you to die. Just give me a moment to oil her up before I get her going."
i find your shop extremely interesting and idk why, i love seeing the "old" machinery.
Great combination of forging and machining, beautifully shot and edited.
I grew up near a town that had a overhead belt driven machine shop. Always fascinating to watch and listen to the sounds of these machines at work.
That's a nice old machine.🙂 I am lucky enough to own a small 7" stroke Mit-a-Mit shaper, made here in Oz for the WW2 effort. It's meant to be mounted on a bench with the apron hanging over the side and has a hole in the top of the apron so a keyway can be cut into the end of a shaft. Mine was put on a floor pedestal. It's a great little machine to use and it does a wonderful job. 👍👍
love health and safety approved equipment cheers from a snowy day in canada
Your keyway tool holder turned out brilliant. Worked well and looked great on the shaper. Great job. Enjoyed watching..... Tony
Nice work there.
Brilliant! As a kid I would watch my dad's best friend run his hand cranked Atlas shaper!
Very cool. Now I want to try and copy the shaper -very useful tool.
My converted line shaft shaper, circa 1900 has an extra large lantern style holder, and my key cutter replaces that and is held in by a large nut behind the tool bar insert. Its 1 1/2 in dia or so, and has a 1/2 in insert for small keys Rustinox is a great source.
Amazing work.
Great video showing an old shaper doing whatbit does, best😀 well forged extension bit for reaching the stroke for key way
Short and sweet so cool , time line for how it was done in the past , and again in 2024 .
The only difference between engineering today and engineering 100 of years ago it’s the speed difference, but the actual engineering hasn’t changed
Good job sir and what a lovely old shaper with a very accessible bull wheel.
In north America they started phasing out shapers in favour of milling machines at the end of WWII. The adage was "you can make anything with a shaper except money". Today, there are dozens of people scrambling to restore shapers from the scrap heap because they have found that they are still the best thing for work like this. Yes, you can use a broach and a press, but how many broaches do you you want to make or buy and how many bushings do you want to have on the shelf? Yes you can use mill cutters to cut slots but how many do you want to buy in specific sizes to do a hundred different jobs? For this kind of work the shaper is still King.
Agreed! You can't beat mills for production work, but for odd awkard sized jobs, a shaper can really earn its keep
And, I love the sound and rhythm.
Nice job! Thanks for the video.
really pleasing to watch this vid,, it makes you wonder at how good the old timers were at accuracy on the old style equipment. you're not bad either! slow and sure building ships ,, lathes etc, etc. what got a young guy like you interested in this old style stuff in the first place?? i have just used my SBW lathe and still love it. looking forward to more vids ,, cheers.👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks! I've always loved experimenting with old ways and always been keen on industrial history. I bought a few belt driven machines when I set up shop because they were cheap and very quickly became fascinated with line shafting and old machine tools. I guess it spiralled from there and its been one hell of learning curve!
@@iron_jonesy sometimes the belt drive is more interesting!
Very nice work mister. Keep it coming.
nice bit of work
Great vid, very informative and interesting video thanks
That was some fine upsetting at the beginning of the video. 👍
What a wooonderfull wooonderfull Work❤
Jeez! You only need to look at that and a modern machine to see how productivity has improved as much as if has.
That was a good watch. Thanks
Remember what you think is bearing is all new to us (me). What I am getting at is if you could be more regular with the videos you will get more viewers (viewers = increased income). I think that what you do with the equipment you have weekly 30 minute+ videos + a bit of time - you are on a winner.
Another fine job! Mighty close to the back wall with the ram. I guess you figured out the max stroke before you placed the machine where it sits?
Yeah it's very close! There are certain combinations of ram position and stroke length where it will hit the wall, but I did a lot of working out and decided those rare times were worth the sacrifice to gain a bit more space in the middle of the shop!
That was brilliant. I wondered how you got all these old machines and how much work there was in restoring them all?
Thanks! This machine is still in original condition, amazingly. It needs some work to get it perfect but it functions as is! Some of my machines have been ground up restorations but not all of them
YEO - you got a sub my friend
enjoy your work, would like to know why did'nt you forge a square hole for the cutter
Great question. I did consider it, but settled on the drill for two reasons. Firstly it makes it very simple to get square to the rest of the bar and secondly punching it would have caused the end of the bar to swell. While it wouldn't have been an issue here, the swelling could be a problem in the future if I need to get into a tighter spot. I could have ground/filed the swelling back but that's an extra step in an already slow process!
Strange that the keyway would be right in the parting line like that.
Cheers Alec - thank you for the informative and entertaining video. I was very impressed with the way that you forged the tool and the care taken to get the 90 degree angle so neat. I notice that your shaper takes the same time for the cutting stroke and the return. Am I right that later shapers were designed to have a faster return stroke?
I was counting the stroke time too and made it about 4 and a half Mississippi on the cut and 3.5 on the return ? You could see it does use the Whitworth Quick Return mechanism, but maybe it just looked equal cos of the slow speed ?
Good point on upsetting the bar too, I snapped one of the "claws" off the end of my two legged bearing pullers (ground them too thin trying to make them fit !) and have been thinking the best way of turning a length of key steel into new legs.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. It does have a quicker return, but tricky to see at these speeds, as Graeme says. The stroke length also plays a role, on long stroke lengths the difference between cutting and return is a lot more noticeable!
Most shapers used the Whitworth yoke mechanism, although many older travelling heads used an offset crank, which produces a similar quick return effect. Mine having the yoke under the ram is fairly unusual in that respect.
nice and easy, a shapers dream :-) just a sad thing, that I dont have surround sound ;-)
Great vidio, is there no place you could move the electric motor to the noise ruins the charm of a line shaft shop.
Thanks. Unfortunately not, but I could do more to insulate the noise so perhaps ill do that.
I wonder where you found that fine old machine?
So much has been junked!
While I daresay that you used an hss tool bit, plain carbon steel is entirely adequate at slow cutting speeds & can produce a finer finish.
This particular machine worked at Wildspur mill. This isn't its first time on youtube, there is a video of it in its original location, not running unfortunately, but there nonetheless. Ill dig out the link and post it. That workshop was eventually cleared and the shaper found its way to me via friends.
Yes! plain carbon tooling is not something I've dabbled in to much, its too easy to reach into the hss drawer! Definitely a subject to visit another day!
Probably could've gone up a gear....
The rhythmical sound of the line shafts working almost sends me to sleep.🥱😴👍🏴