So if I were 4th I guess it would be 3/6/11 together with 3/4/8 city (wheat/sheep/wood). 😊 Espacially if you place your city on 3/4/8 wood/wood/brick it is super likely you lose your city as you massivly need a 3 to get a sheep. 🐑
I would take 8/4/3 (Wood Wheat Sheep) as the settlement (road North for the port) and 8/4/3 (Wood Wood Brick) for the city (road to coast). You have 2 wood to start and should get two more easily to trade with the bank for ore. You would easily take the Science Metropolis and have a clear path to expand to the 4/11 wood port which will be the key to driving the city improvements with the vast amount of wood and replacing missing resources. The lack of number diversity is key to getting full benefit of level three of the Science Improvement. Pointing the City road to the coast helps to preserve the lack of number diversity. Getting an Inventor card due to the Paper commodities would also give you a viable path to longest road. Red would then take 9/10/11 and win the Politics metropolis. Yellow would take 8/5/10 losing out on the science metropolis but would have an initial advantage for longest road. Purple would then take 6/3/11 with two sheep and win the Trade Metropolis with a back door to the Politics.
To be clear, I had the video on pause at 9:12 when I gave my answer. I should have let the rest of video play before posting as it was mostly redundant with your analysis. You didn't really talk about the roads or the wood port though and I think that is important to making it work. If you lose your city the first time around, that wood port will be the path to rebuild it.
I believe you! Fun how we share the opinion on how to place this situation. I didn't mention the roads, but I mentioned "a lot of great ports around you" and I pointed upwards in the video. Thinking about 'paths to rebuild cities' is interesting. In the past, I was thinking: if I lose my city, I lose the game regardless. But from what the experts I've interviewed and now you point out, is the potential ways to still win (or at least do well). Thanks for your in-depth comments Dan!
@Starshine Hmm interesting! I guess we play the game differently (read: you play C&K more efficiently). I really don't see it win to be honest. I've done some math with Raoyourboat and the odds of keeping your city are really good, because of the 4:1 possibilities on wood and brick.
Thanks for the video treeck, I really enjoyed it. Love the on board examples, they make the learning experience so much more effective. Would love to see a recording of you playing Cities and Knights, or watch a live stream. Kudos!
Nice video. Which part of the Cities and Knights do you think is far too weak or far too strong? Do you see any issues with the game + cities and knights that you would want to be fixed?
I think there's no way to win the game outside a strong city calendar. I wish the blue path would be a bit stronger than it is and that the game would be a bit faster, especially at the end. What do you think?
@@Treeckosaurus I think that apart from calendar necessity (and the strength of progress cards) Cities and Knights puts a bit too much focus on Ore / Wheat early on. Everyone needs to build a knight and feed him early. Building a city before the first barbarian attack can make some players lose the race from round 6, as with no towns towns there's no commodities and no city calendar and no progress cards. And this goes further. The only way to get back into the game after losing a city is... ore and wheat to get that city back. Aqueduct may be good, but early on you need ore and wheat above all. Do you also find the game so centered around these two?
@@Treeckosaurus you're welcome. I've used your tips to greatly improve my "family" gameplay and think that you're the best of the YT channels on Catan.
Thanks Treecko for the tips! A small (and weak) disagreement regarding the Number 1 rule: targeting wheat+brick for the first settlement may be a better priority than wheat+ore. The reasoning is that you don't want to target wheat or brick for your second pick, because these don't generate commodities. So for example as a second position in 4:38 I would consider taking the 9-6-3 brick-double-wheat spot, being confident that a good ore spot would be available for my second pick (possibly the 11-3-6). Combined with the vicinity of brick and ore ports, this should be a quite good setup IMHO.
I find 6/5/11 + 9/4/11 better than 6/9/3 + 6/3/11. It could work though, not saying it's a bad pick. It's my preference to have more flexibility in C&K.
@@Treeckosaurus The 9/4/11 is a bit sad spot for the first city. It offers only 3 points of commodity production. Do you remember how well did Red fared with this setup in the actual game?
Red got an early lead, but played inefficiently after that and got third place. I ended up with Aquaduct from 4 wood, so I don't think that was the reason he lost.
4th positin is a toughy here. The way you suggest is risky, as you’ll have to 4:1 for Ore and it’s not guaranteed the 3 Sheep and 4 Wheat will even hit before the first Barbarian strike. And lossing a City for such tactics is a disaster. Ofc if your City survive, it’s excellent tactics for Aqeuduct (only 3 numbers), but it’s so risky at start. I would rather take a much safer option: first 6/3/11 (double Ore+ Sheep), then City on 8/4/3(Wood, Wheat Sheep) = you already have Sheep and Wheat, and it is very likely you will get Ore from that 6+11, so activated Knight is guaranteed. Next it would be easy to upgrade 6/3/11 and go for Coin metro. Also I always like to protect Wheat spots with Knight, as they are always attacked and ‘no wheat=defeat’ applies even more in CaK than in Base. And CaK is such a dynamic game so it’s almost impossible to comment outcome from starting settlements. Another great content. Thank You.
I'm glad you enjoyed it and I thank you for your thoughts on the 4th position. I understand your reasoning, but as I explained in the video, I have different thoughts on this matter.
that 4th position strategy you recommend at the end is pretty bold, its a tough spot. You'd be playing without any wheat, ore, and sheep to start. I'm curious what your chances of losing your city are at that point?
Great video. Very interesting 4th pick. I see the reasoning for double 843 and agree if you survive you have a great shot. I think the burn rate is very high and for that reason i would swap the city and settlement to start with a wheat and sheep. Getting level 1 cloth quickly will also be valuable. I'm not sure about pointing to the wood port as if red takes the other 6311 (double cloth) they can cut you with a starting knight. My preferred set up is 8510 (point right as 910desert should be open) and city 843 on the left (point left for knight protection). Should be much safer as only need a 4 for 1 for ore. Whilst leaving the 843 double paper spot open means you may lose the green metro, that is dependent on that player keeping their city which will be risky for them starting with no OWS. If you don't get the green metro you can still win by playing high production with the aqueduct (at worst you are 2nd to the aqueduct) and taking longest road (easy connection). If 843 player burns and you don't then you probably win comfortably with road and green metro.
Doubling on 8 4 3 is very risky and it's a kind of All of in approach. If 8 won't be popular you will get 4th place. I would like to get more good numbers and also more diverse resources so I would place the house on 8 10 5 and the city on 8 4 3 with wheat. The reason is that I will be a road builder and I will get a chance for ore because of this. The other 3 folks cannot block all the ores on the map and in case they do it won't be a rare resource so it will be traded for a decent price.
@@Treeckosaurus if you like risks then prepare to be on 4th place many times. I don't think it's bad, but you will get bored in some of these games. I hope you aren't a quitter :D
It depends per season. Over the past year I've usually played Base Game. I think my best game mode is Base, because I play it most. In terms of win-rate, it's difficult to compare, but in terms of skills it's 4P Base Game, no doubt.
For auto-matches I mainly focus Hybrid OWS + Army, but in high-level game-play I use a variety of strategies. I mainly try to have a 'sneaky strong' set-up, instead of the strongest set-up with strong players, because otherwise I get robbed non-stop. In the past King of Catan season I had a 77% win-rate (11 out of 15), but that was a positive exception. My auto-match win-rate is around 50%.
@@Treeckosaurus sorry for all the questions man, but what is your order or things? Like do you focus on getting a city at the start rather then buying a development card at the start . Like for example do you do ( city , dev, dev, city, dev, dev, settlement, city etc. Again sry for all the questions big fan of ur videos they're really helpful thanks man
Could you tell me when I say that? The gist of the advice is this: build your settlement on Ore/Wheat to city up this settlement faster. Build your city on Wood/Sheep to get Paper/Cloth
In the King of Catan tournaments, players who have Aqueduct get targeted a lot. And players who pursue other metros or road get targeted less. Maybe "overvalued" isn't the right word, but in the current meta-game, it's not always a good idea to go for the Aqueduct.
Can't know how I bumped onto this. Anyway Awesome clip 🥇. I also have been watching those similar from MStarTutorials and kinda wonder how you guys make these stuff. MStar Tutorials also had amazing information about similiar things on his vids.
This game honestly is a lot of luck. I've had games where I've been on 4,5,9 and opponents on 3,11,6 get more rolls. It's all about just getting your numbers rolled in your first 10 rounds or so. After that, the player who has their number come up the most frequently will have expanded to your numbers and when your numbers finally come around, they are gaining from it as well.
@@TreeckosaurusAlthough I can understand you just fine, it might help to reduce "vocal fry". That's the creaky, low sound you usually use at the end of a sentence. I think less vocal fry sounds more relaxed. I'm no speech therapist, so I don't know how you'd achieve that. Just curious: are you Dutch?
![Treeckosaurus [Catan]](http://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AIdro_nRVKXeGFBefgIvY06ORFQmO0c1cs3nZ5tcP_kSXaGz8Iw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
What would you do in the video's fourth position situation?
So if I were 4th I guess it would be 3/6/11 together with 3/4/8 city (wheat/sheep/wood). 😊
Espacially if you place your city on 3/4/8 wood/wood/brick it is super likely you lose your city as you massivly need a 3 to get a sheep. 🐑
I would take 8/4/3 (Wood Wheat Sheep) as the settlement (road North for the port) and 8/4/3 (Wood Wood Brick) for the city (road to coast). You have 2 wood to start and should get two more easily to trade with the bank for ore. You would easily take the Science Metropolis and have a clear path to expand to the 4/11 wood port which will be the key to driving the city improvements with the vast amount of wood and replacing missing resources. The lack of number diversity is key to getting full benefit of level three of the Science Improvement. Pointing the City road to the coast helps to preserve the lack of number diversity. Getting an Inventor card due to the Paper commodities would also give you a viable path to longest road. Red would then take 9/10/11 and win the Politics metropolis. Yellow would take 8/5/10 losing out on the science metropolis but would have an initial advantage for longest road. Purple would then take 6/3/11 with two sheep and win the Trade Metropolis with a back door to the Politics.
To be clear, I had the video on pause at 9:12 when I gave my answer. I should have let the rest of video play before posting as it was mostly redundant with your analysis. You didn't really talk about the roads or the wood port though and I think that is important to making it work. If you lose your city the first time around, that wood port will be the path to rebuild it.
I believe you! Fun how we share the opinion on how to place this situation. I didn't mention the roads, but I mentioned "a lot of great ports around you" and I pointed upwards in the video.
Thinking about 'paths to rebuild cities' is interesting. In the past, I was thinking: if I lose my city, I lose the game regardless. But from what the experts I've interviewed and now you point out, is the potential ways to still win (or at least do well).
Thanks for your in-depth comments Dan!
@Starshine Hmm interesting! I guess we play the game differently (read: you play C&K more efficiently). I really don't see it win to be honest.
I've done some math with Raoyourboat and the odds of keeping your city are really good, because of the 4:1 possibilities on wood and brick.
Thanks for the video treeck, I really enjoyed it. Love the on board examples, they make the learning experience so much more effective.
Would love to see a recording of you playing Cities and Knights, or watch a live stream.
Kudos!
I'm glad you enjoyed it! I can't imagine never doing a C&K gameplay video
Nice video. Which part of the Cities and Knights do you think is far too weak or far too strong? Do you see any issues with the game + cities and knights that you would want to be fixed?
I think there's no way to win the game outside a strong city calendar. I wish the blue path would be a bit stronger than it is and that the game would be a bit faster, especially at the end. What do you think?
@@Treeckosaurus I think that apart from calendar necessity (and the strength of progress cards) Cities and Knights puts a bit too much focus on Ore / Wheat early on. Everyone needs to build a knight and feed him early. Building a city before the first barbarian attack can make some players lose the race from round 6, as with no towns towns there's no commodities and no city calendar and no progress cards. And this goes further. The only way to get back into the game after losing a city is... ore and wheat to get that city back. Aqueduct may be good, but early on you need ore and wheat above all. Do you also find the game so centered around these two?
I think ore and wheat are the best resources in C&K, but games can be won without either of the two.
I'd like to see more vids of actual C&K games -- so far I only see 2 vids on this playlist and both are about strategy (albeit very helpful!).
Thanks for the suggestion!
@@Treeckosaurus you're welcome. I've used your tips to greatly improve my "family" gameplay and think that you're the best of the YT channels on Catan.
Thanks Treecko for the tips! A small (and weak) disagreement regarding the Number 1 rule: targeting wheat+brick for the first settlement may be a better priority than wheat+ore. The reasoning is that you don't want to target wheat or brick for your second pick, because these don't generate commodities. So for example as a second position in 4:38 I would consider taking the 9-6-3 brick-double-wheat spot, being confident that a good ore spot would be available for my second pick (possibly the 11-3-6). Combined with the vicinity of brick and ore ports, this should be a quite good setup IMHO.
Ah okay. I personally don't think you should target brick at all (as your first option). In my opinion, brick-strategies are back-up strategies.
I find 6/5/11 + 9/4/11 better than 6/9/3 + 6/3/11. It could work though, not saying it's a bad pick. It's my preference to have more flexibility in C&K.
@@Treeckosaurus The 9/4/11 is a bit sad spot for the first city. It offers only 3 points of commodity production. Do you remember how well did Red fared with this setup in the actual game?
Red got an early lead, but played inefficiently after that and got third place. I ended up with Aquaduct from 4 wood, so I don't think that was the reason he lost.
4th positin is a toughy here.
The way you suggest is risky, as you’ll have to 4:1 for Ore and it’s not guaranteed the 3 Sheep and 4 Wheat will even hit before the first Barbarian strike. And lossing a City for such tactics is a disaster. Ofc if your City survive, it’s excellent tactics for Aqeuduct (only 3 numbers), but it’s so risky at start.
I would rather take a much safer option: first 6/3/11 (double Ore+ Sheep), then City on 8/4/3(Wood, Wheat Sheep) = you already have Sheep and Wheat, and it is very likely you will get Ore from that 6+11, so activated Knight is guaranteed. Next it would be easy to upgrade 6/3/11 and go for Coin metro.
Also I always like to protect Wheat spots with Knight, as they are always attacked and ‘no wheat=defeat’ applies even more in CaK than in Base.
And CaK is such a dynamic game so it’s almost impossible to comment outcome from starting settlements.
Another great content. Thank You.
I'm glad you enjoyed it and I thank you for your thoughts on the 4th position. I understand your reasoning, but as I explained in the video, I have different thoughts on this matter.
that 4th position strategy you recommend at the end is pretty bold, its a tough spot. You'd be playing without any wheat, ore, and sheep to start. I'm curious what your chances of losing your city are at that point?
I tried to calculate it, but I'm still doubtful of the math. It came down to almost guarantee to keep the city, which I find to be optimistic.
@@Treeckosaurus your the man! i've been watching your cities and knights tips and got to grandmaster on Catan universe!!
Do you play on colonist.io these days?
I find both platforms really good
Great video. Very interesting 4th pick. I see the reasoning for double 843 and agree if you survive you have a great shot. I think the burn rate is very high and for that reason i would swap the city and settlement to start with a wheat and sheep. Getting level 1 cloth quickly will also be valuable. I'm not sure about pointing to the wood port as if red takes the other 6311 (double cloth) they can cut you with a starting knight. My preferred set up is 8510 (point right as 910desert should be open) and city 843 on the left (point left for knight protection). Should be much safer as only need a 4 for 1 for ore. Whilst leaving the 843 double paper spot open means you may lose the green metro, that is dependent on that player keeping their city which will be risky for them starting with no OWS. If you don't get the green metro you can still win by playing high production with the aqueduct (at worst you are 2nd to the aqueduct) and taking longest road (easy connection). If 843 player burns and you don't then you probably win comfortably with road and green metro.
Lovely Video!
Many intresting great information to pick up for the C&K Community! 🤓
I'm glad you liked it Starshine!
won my first game today, feeling fine
Awesome! What strategy did you use?
@@Treeckosaurus I hoarded ore to get the politics metro
Doubling on 8 4 3 is very risky and it's a kind of All of in approach. If 8 won't be popular you will get 4th place. I would like to get more good numbers and also more diverse resources so I would place the house on 8 10 5 and the city on 8 4 3 with wheat. The reason is that I will be a road builder and I will get a chance for ore because of this. The other 3 folks cannot block all the ores on the map and in case they do it won't be a rare resource so it will be traded for a decent price.
What fun is life without risks? :)
@@Treeckosaurus if you like risks then prepare to be on 4th place many times. I don't think it's bad, but you will get bored in some of these games. I hope you aren't a quitter :D
who did the captions in this video.
No one probably, RUclips makes most of them automatically. What's up with the captions?
Do you mainly play the base game or cities and knights. What are you best at?
It depends per season. Over the past year I've usually played Base Game. I think my best game mode is Base, because I play it most. In terms of win-rate, it's difficult to compare, but in terms of skills it's 4P Base Game, no doubt.
@@Treeckosaurus playing hybrid ows and largest army, is that ur goto strategy? Whats your stats, is your win rate high because of that strategy
?
For auto-matches I mainly focus Hybrid OWS + Army, but in high-level game-play I use a variety of strategies. I mainly try to have a 'sneaky strong' set-up, instead of the strongest set-up with strong players, because otherwise I get robbed non-stop.
In the past King of Catan season I had a 77% win-rate (11 out of 15), but that was a positive exception. My auto-match win-rate is around 50%.
@@Treeckosaurus sorry for all the questions man, but what is your order or things? Like do you focus on getting a city at the start rather then buying a development card at the start . Like for example do you do ( city , dev, dev, city, dev, dev, settlement, city etc. Again sry for all the questions big fan of ur videos they're really helpful thanks man
He said to build your 1st settlements on ore and wheat but then said to build on sheep and wood for your first settlement ??
Could you tell me when I say that? The gist of the advice is this: build your settlement on Ore/Wheat to city up this settlement faster. Build your city on Wood/Sheep to get Paper/Cloth
Good tutorial about C&K placement.
I'm glad you like it :)
Why is aqueduct overvalued?
In the King of Catan tournaments, players who have Aqueduct get targeted a lot. And players who pursue other metros or road get targeted less. Maybe "overvalued" isn't the right word, but in the current meta-game, it's not always a good idea to go for the Aqueduct.
Very nice
Awesome!
Can't know how I bumped onto this. Anyway Awesome clip 🥇. I also have been watching those similar from MStarTutorials and kinda wonder how you guys make these stuff. MStar Tutorials also had amazing information about similiar things on his vids.
I use www.canva.com/ to make these animated sheets. Never heard of MStar, but I'll check him/her out!
This game honestly is a lot of luck. I've had games where I've been on 4,5,9 and opponents on 3,11,6 get more rolls. It's all about just getting your numbers rolled in your first 10 rounds or so. After that, the player who has their number come up the most frequently will have expanded to your numbers and when your numbers finally come around, they are gaining from it as well.
The accent is tough to sit through.
What would you say is the best way for me to improve my accent?
@@TreeckosaurusAlthough I can understand you just fine, it might help to reduce "vocal fry". That's the creaky, low sound you usually use at the end of a sentence. I think less vocal fry sounds more relaxed. I'm no speech therapist, so I don't know how you'd achieve that.
Just curious: are you Dutch?
Yep I am. Thanks for the feedback!