How to install cement board on a shower curb and not pierce the waterproofing
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- Опубликовано: 12 май 2020
- This technique can be used over a PVC liner that is wrapped over a 2x4 stud curb. This technique is the same as when a form curb overlay is used, referred to as a preformed curb on page 258 under common shower configurations in the TCNA handbook , the difference is that the overlay is made by you. While there is nothing wrong with foam overlays, they can be a little tight and may develop a twist as they are installed. This technique makes it so the board can be customized when dealing with the liner. If the liner is bunched or tight, you just need to make an adjustment in the size of the top face. A cement board curb is slightly easier to adjust when correcting for level and slope than a foam overlay is.
Lath and mud is still a good alternative but the preformed method can actually be easier to correct for level and slope. Mud and lath requires a slightly higher skill set than the method here, but mud and lath has no structural advantage, in spite of what some pros may say.
Thinset mortar in this application makes a mechanical bond, not an adhesive/chemical bond.
As we all know and all the internet warriors concur, thin-set mortar does not stick to (adhere to) plastic or PVC. In this instance the thin-set mortar is used to complete the mold that is essentially being made when the curb is wrapped with the cement board. Think of it like this; If I took a bucket of thin-set, turned it upside down and put it over your head and let it dry, you wont be able to get it off. Is that because the mortar stuck to your skin? No. It is stuck because the mortar dried in the form of a mold that contoured the entirety of your head. When someone goes over a liner with lath and mud they are doing the same exact thing with different materials. Essentially creating a mold that will hold similar to an uncoupling system used on floors. This is essentially an uncoupled curb.
Topical or bonded waterproofing membranes should still be used over the curb as well as the wallboard following the dried application of this overlay.
Topical waterproofing does not protect screw penetrations from water intrusion if the screw is installed on the curb.
Read this reply that I posted to a comment:
There was a time when I used to put screws on the top of the curb to hold the board down. I thought I had to. I would put the screws in an area that I felt was outside of the shower door line and I would put topical waterproofing over the board and screws on the curb.
I found out years later that it didn't work. I never had a complaint, or had to return because of a problem. But on one job a customer wanted to do their other bathroom. I looked at the one I did twelve years earlier. Everything looked good except the curb. The curb wasn't horrible but I could tell something was going on. I offered to repair the curb. When I took it apart I could see that the water found a way. It managed to deteriorate the curb and was retaining water.
How did it happen? The glass enclosure screws. And I don't mean the glass enclosure screw through the curb, I mean the screws mounting the hardware on the walls for the panel.
The penetration from the glass shower panel screws allowed water to pass through my topical membrane via the surface tension along the screw, through the board, down the wall and into the waiting liner, where the curb meets the wall. The water then traveled horizontally along the curb liner, mind you, under the board, until it found the screw penetration which had fastened the board to the curb. The topical membrane could do nothing to stop this. The glass panel hardware that was attached directly to the curb may have also contributed to the curbs deterioration, but I could definitely see where the water had entered through a wallboard screw on top of the curb.
This is real, and most customers don't complain when something starts to fail. You wouldn't even know that you had been doing something wrong until one day you stumble upon it.
Trust me, no matter what anyone says, screws in a curb will one day screw you up.
Now think about this...
Tile guys are a stubborn bunch and every one of them thinks they're the best. To those of you that feel you're the best, I'm sure your mother agrees with you, send her my best!
Please note; The shower in the video is a TCNA B-415 cement board traditional/water in-water out receptor. Cement board can be installed on the curb lower than the height of the shower pan mortar. Fiber cement board cannot be installed below the height of the shower pan mortar. This goes for coated glass mat water resistant board as well (think Dens-Shield). The only other board in the handbook that states the board may be installed below the height of the shower pan is Cementitious-coated extruded foam. This technique can be done with foam board as well, but 1/4 inch cement board is relatively inexpensive and makes for a very strong curb because there is no give, or deflection once embedded, which foam may have. 
Хобби
Check out the description! Your question may be answered there.
Thank you so much for all the info
Man every other video seems to skip this step or just flat out shows it when its already done and i was looking exactly for this video!!!! 👍👍👍👍
Thanks for the video, and getting straight to the instruction! I spent hours searching for how to properly install a curb over PVC membrane.
Starr Tile or TileCoach.
This is the first time I've seen this technique for using cement board over the whole curb. I like this very much and will be trying it on my own new shower going up in our basement. Nicely done. Thank you.
Thanks for making this video, it's really helpful. I've done tons of tile showers with prefab shower pans but this is my first making my own and I've had a heck of a time wrapping my head around the whole procedure, but you really helped clarify things
This worked out great for me, I did use wire mesh as well , as able to level my curb as well. Thanks for the great content.
Thank you so much for posting this video! After seeing this video I decided this was the best route to go. I completed it last night and it turned out flawless! Excellent video.
That's awesome! I really appreciate knowing how it turned out for you, thank you!
Thanks for the clear and understandable video! I'm going to give this method a try. After reading ALL of the comments, I still feel you've done a great job and love the comment about the mothers. Love your sense of humor!
I’ve been installing tile for nearly 30 years, never seen a curb done like that. Great innovation, I will have to try it. Thanks so much for sharing. Old world Tile
Finally someone showed how to do a curb. Thanks
Thanks for the reply, never too old to learn something new (50 yrs in business), I will try that on my shower, that I just learned was leaking after a yearly termite inspection.
I did not do the install it was already done when I bought the house, I was not planning on it but the wife is happy, she was not a fan of the current tile!
I love the folding technique. In the past I have always put thinset on the wood curb under the membrane to make it even more solid. May not be necessary but makes me feel better :)
Awesome. First I’ve seen this done. Definitely saving this video for future use. Thanks.
Very clever solution, thanks for posting this.
I like that versus putting wire mesh and floating it with cement. Thx
Fantastic video. Thanks so much for the help.
Thank you for this very helpful video. And well done just enough talk keeping it straight to the point.
Thank you! I can't stand it when a video drags and it doesn't contain substance.
finally. this is the first video on installing / prepping for tile over a shower curb with a rubber liner. i would have definitely screwed the durock onto the curb. even though i'll be installing sliding glass doors, one less potential place for water to infiltrate below the liner is a good thing. thanks for the common sense video and getting right to the work.
You're welcome. It is unfortunate that the shower door hardware piercing the curbs liner is part of the business. Silicone should be driven into the holes where the screws will hold the glass panel bracket prior to fastening. This is not foolproof but can help to limit the moisture getting past the screw.
Thanks
Best video on this by far.
Brother thank you for taking the time to post this instructional. By far the absolute best I have seen! I was at odds on how I wanted to do my shower curb. Once I saw your video I was sold. Excellent craftsmanship as well.
Now I am off to do my curb per your instructions!
Thanks again and God Bless,
Yellowhammer
You're very welcome!
Thank you!
@@trendsettertilestone9602
I DID IT BROTHER AND IT WORKED OUT LIKE A CHARM.
GOD BLESS! YOU ARE THE BEST!
@@yellowhammer4747 Thanks again! I bet it turned out a lot stronger than you thought it would. It's a strong curb when done right. Thanks for letting me know how it turned out!
@@trendsettertilestone9602
Super Strong!
The problem with these curbs are they are trafficked areas and are stepped on. Curbs need to be completely solid and fastened securely to the curb frame. Screwing the hardibacker or Durock to the curb frame is the most solid structure. Followed by first coat diluted with water of redgaurd. Followed by two more coats.
Awsome Bro. I figured I wanted you use the BB from a previous install but was concerned about the angles (great technique)👍🏻.
-God bless
Thanks so much Bro, couldn’t have done it without Ya!
Awesome man. thank you!
I followed your instruction and nailed it on my first try! I made a two step project out of it as I finished the curb corners on day 2. I did use gentle pressure with clamps...the curb is perfect! It is ROCK SOLID! Thanks for taking the time to post the vid.
Thank you for letting us know how it worked out!
It means a lot!
Very helpful video. Thank you for sharing!!!
Great work. I used to do cement curbs and b52000 the pan liner to the curb creating a bond then using this technique. For tile to adhear to. The slack in the liner under the curb would bother me.
Finally, one of these where they don't immediately put screws through the liner.
Excelente aplicación muy profesional, 👍
Thank you for the great instruction steps. I usually just perforate screws on my shower curbs, for both exterior and top, once the boards are installed, I do two coats of the liquid waterproof membrane. That’s plenty seal for waterproof. I also finish with a curb cap (granite, marble or quartz (best).
Your way is pretty safe, especially if installing tiles on top of the curb.
You're welcome! There was a time when I used to put screws on the top of the curb to hold the board down. I thought I had to. I would put the screws in an area that I felt was outside of the shower door line and I would put topical waterproofing over the board and screws on the curb.
I found out years later that it didn't work. I never had a complaint, or had to return because of a problem. But on one job a customer wanted to do their other bathroom. I looked at the one I did twelve years earlier. Everything looked good except the curb. The curb wasn't horrible but I could tell something was going on. I offered to repair the curb. When I took it apart I could see that the water found a way. It managed to deteriorate the curb and was retaining water.
How did it happen? The glass enclosure screws.
The penetration from the shower panel screws allowed water to pass through my topical membrane via surface tension, through the board, and into the waiting liner, where the curb meets the wall. The water then traveled horizontally along the curb liner, mind you, under the board, until it found the screw penetration which had fastened the board to the curb. The topical membrane could do nothing to stop this.
This is real, and most customers don't complain when something starts to fail. You wouldn't even know that you had been doing something wrong until one day you stumble upon it.
Trust me, no matter what anyone says, screws in a curb will one day screw you up.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 how do you suggest I go about securing the glass panel to the top of the curb without screws ? Or should I only secure it along the 1 wall
@@OGCJ10 This is a very good question! We don't install the shower doors, another contractor following our tile installation does it so my knowledge on it is limited, however I have had conversations with them about this and typically when possible if the bracket is an L-shape they make the fastener on the outside portion of the panel so the penetration is not within the "wet area".
When the mounting hardware is shaped like a U, directly below the glass, they force silicone sealant into the drill hole and then fasten the bracket. Additional silicone around the glass perimeter and over the top of the screws is also helpful however this is not full proof. In truth this is still a shortfall in terms of a guaranteed leak proof shower.
I have seen instances when no screws were used in the curb for the glass panel but this was on small pieces of glass and not the typical 7' X 3' panels. It is slightly easier to get away with no fasteners if there is a track above the glass but this wouldn't be the case for a truly frame-less enclosure.
Whenever we do Schluter or Hydro-ban showers we leave literature on the job instructing contractors that they must fill the holes with silicone sealant prior to fastening plumbing hardware or shower enclosures.
Thank you.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 thank you very much 🙏
Just what I was looking for thx
Interesting. Good idea.
Pal. Your videos are much better than 90% of the videos out there but there are so few videos? Hope you are ok pal. Why so few videos?
Thank you very much! We do have plans for more videos, they're just of a lower priority with how busy we are. Promise there are more to come, thanks.
Try gluing the liner to the wood curb if you do it this way
THANKS SO MUCH!!!!
Awesome video don’t change clear and to the point no extra clown comment -great video just subscribed because of it
Thanks
Will be using Dreamline 60x30 pan. Not that it matters cause didn’t buy it retail but they claim modifications to pan voids warranty. I’m wanting build pony wall in front of toilet so thinking of finding bracket for cantilevering up 2x3 or 4” wall up slightly over curb taking most the weight off curb I like your concept here wondering how it would work if not doing tile on base. Thinking would have to silicone the bottom seam where tile butts to the pan. Advice be very much welcomed
I like this method and will give it a shot !! Do you waterproof the curb after everthing is set and dry? I use red guard on my curbs and around the perimeter of the shower pan where the wall meets the shower pan floor.
Yes, you should waterproof the curb the same as you would waterproof the wallboard. While cement board will not deteriorate from water exposure it would retain the moisture, and that can lead to longer dry out time in between use.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 appreciate the advise!!!
Nice Job, one question how well does the thinset mortar stick to the membrane?
The thinset is not meant to "stick" to the liner. The thinset will harden into place and form a mechanical bond/anchor, as opposed to an adhesive bond. The thinset bonds to the cement board, but becomes a contoured shape around the liner which is not easily removed. This is the same concept used on Schluter Ditra, with Schluter's built in dovetails. Thinset does not bond to plastic ditra, it does however form a mechanical bond filling in the shape of the dovetail squares. Essential this is an uncoupled curb. This overlay will not be removed any easier than any other part of a demo.
NICE!
Hello and thank you for posting the video on this curb. It looks really good. My question to you is would you then pour cement over the liner to hold the inside part of the curb you just built?
Thank you. Following this overlay, dry pack mortar can be installed on the shower floor. The dry pack mortar should be in contact with the cement board that was installed for the overlay. When the dry pack makes contact with the cement board on the curb it will also cover the lower area where the liner is exposed. Read the description which includes some details on different showers and how not all can have the board installed on or below a dry pack. Cement board is permitted at or below the dry pack surface.
This is the way.
Was wondering if instead of mortar we can use a liquid nail fuz it under the pvc shower pan liner around the curve so there's no movement on the liner and then use your technique but just making the cement board a lil tighter and instead using 1/2 inch board to make the surface stronger, use enough liquid nail fuz it right under the cement board to make everything nice and tight and possibly bond everything together nice and tight, you think that's a good option, will that work since liquid nail fuz it bonds to all types of plastic including pvc and the 2x4 board
The thin-set mortar can't be substituted. Think of it like this, once the 1/4 inch board and the mortar dry together the thickness just about meets what you would have with just 1/2 inch board.
Do not be concerned about thin-set mortar not sticking to the liner. That is not how this method works, it works by casting the thin set mortar around the shape of the curb by a principal termed uncoupling. Do not use the liquid nail, it offers no support, no matter how well it sticks! If you haven't already, check out the description.
Thanks!
I'm curious as to why paint on waterproof membranes are not used and curbless panless systems not used in a lot of youtube vids.
Very interesting concept. I like
It. Never any issues with the thin set releasing from the Durock? How long have you been building with this method?
Durock releasing from
The pan liner. Sorry typo
Hi, thanks for the question. I have installed curbs for this shower type like this since 1999. Builders were always leaving the curbs unfinished. Trendsetter has been in business since 2007 and we have not had any curb failures, these curbs are strong.
The thinset is not meant to "stick" to the liner. The thinset will harden into place and form a mechanical bond/anchor, as opposed to an adhesive bond. The thinset bonds to the cement board, but becomes a contoured shape around the liner which is not easily removed. This is the same concept used on Schluter Ditra, with Schluter's built in dovetails. Thinset does not bond to plastic ditra, it does however form a mechanical bond filling in the shape of the dovetail squares. Essential this is an uncoupled curb. This overlay will not be removed any easier than any other part of a demo. You cannot adhesive bond to a plastic liner, but that is not what your going for here.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 There is nothing to mechanically bond to. That's what lath is for.
Is this an acceptable method in the NTCA handbook?
@@k0harmer Hi, thin-set mortar has a chemical bond within itself. Sand, polymers, water and other componants cure and bond to one another chemically. When you "stick" a tile to anything, cement, wallboard, etc. It attempts to make a mechanical bond. Filling small crevices and shapes looking to attach and remain locked in. Even as the shape increases, mortar still locks into a shape. whether around a curb or into a glass vase. The thinset is not making a chemical bond with the liner, for that matter a metal lath and mortar shape is not either. Both methods make a shape that you will be able to bond to after the shape has cured. They are essential the same. If you gave it a try, it's just as strong as your lath curb. Nothing against lath and mud, this is just another way.
The NTCA does not make any standards or guidlines. The TCNA handbook does have a drawing for a curb using reinforcing/lath on page 284 of the 2020 handbook. The reinforcing/lath is used mainly to contour the shape of the curb so the mortar will be able to attach in a mechanical shape around the curb. Lath is not required for the curb in this video because the cement board already has the integrity that the lath achieves when mortar alone is used. Other curb types like solid foam, foam overlay, solid concrete curbs, bricks etc. are not in the handbook. Sometimes the book is a little vague to let installers and manufacturers have some room in how to construct assemblies. TCNA is all about guidelines, not hard and fast rules, even if it sometimes seems like it.
Thanks
@@k0harmer On page 258 of the 2020 TCNA handbook there is a section titled common shower configurations. It shows a mortar curb and a preformed curb side by side. The method on this video is the preformed curb also referred to as overlay. I knew it was in there, just in a different section.
Thank you.
Is possible just to use liquid nail / glue vs thin set mortar?
No, the thin-set mortar cannot be substituted. It's not about bonding strength, it's about material stability. Cement products have compressive strength and the ability to conform to the curb creating a locked-in mold, whereas the liquid nail only makes an adhesive bond which does not do anything for this assembly.
Tho a good idea, there’s too much movement with the cement board which will cause tiles and/or grout to crack down the line
You are incorrect. If you put wire and mud around a curb, how have you made it any stronger than this overlay?
With the mesh, thinset and board you have made a monolithic overlay.
Also, adding additional thinset along with the tile will further increase the rigidity of this curb. Sealant, or to a lesser extent caulking, used around all changes in-plane around the curb remove any chance of perimeter grout cracking, which is also required in a mud/lath curb.
You should really try this sometime. You'll be pleasantly surprised. I didn't create this method. It was shown to me in the late 90's and I have used it hundreds of times. I have never, ever, ever had to return to one of our jobs for an issue with a curb.
How do ppl install glass doors over foam curbs tho? Just use strictly wall mount doors?
Very innovative! I plan on doing the same thing. Question, how do you correctly attach the glass panel hardware to the curb? Do you put a dab of silicone on the screw before driving it? Also, is that a wood curb or brick? I've been told not to use PT wood, and only kiln dried. Thank you!
Hi, the shower door installer should put a generous amount of silicone sealant into the hole prior to fastening the hardware.
The curb is composed of standard 2x4's with sill seal below it. The sill seal is so the 2x4's are not directly on a concrete substrate.
PT is not encouraged. The main reason being that since they are already holding a tremendous amount of water, they may develop a twist as they dry out/shrink. There is a higher potential for grout cracking and tile de lamination when attaching to PT.
PT is only used when a building inspector insists on it. Local code sometimes dictates PT on concrete no matter what and in most condominiums they only allow wood if its pressure treated or fire retardant lumber.
Bricks are fine, though somewhat less convenient.
A brick curb is for more experienced installers. Between the mortar work and lining them up it is easy to accidentally make a weak or crooked curb.
Thank you!
@@trendsettertilestone9602 Thanks for confirming! You are absolutely a professional.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 , how about pressure-treated that has been sitting in the garage for years?
@@bobhucker1434 HaHa No! PT lumber shrinks and curls as it loses moisture. It is notorious for cracking grout. It is also likely to turn into mush as it will be under that impervious PVC membrane.
Most local code does require PT lumber over concrete when your bathroom requires an inspection, but when possible, use regular lumber with sill seal beneath it.
Do you recommend wrapping the curb with galvanized lath before apply the thinset ?
And the thinset do you recommend doing unmodified or modified ?
Or there’s no difference
No, lath would be used only if you are going to mud the curb by traditional means with fat mud. A lath mud curb has no cement board on it. I recommend modified thin-set mortar that is designated LHT mortar. Typically these mortars are ANSI 118.15T. The T at the end stands for Thixotropic. Using a modified mortar is not for the sake of bond strength but because modified mortars like LHT can be used slightly thicker than un-modified mortars. The thinset does not make an adhesive bond to the liner, it makes a mechanical bond after it forms to the shape of the curb. Your modified mortar may not display a "T" but if it's LHT it should have thixotropic properties.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 can it be done with a double curb shower pan as well ?
@@marianah.3164 Yes, I imagine you mean where two curbs meet at 90 or 22 1/2 degree intersection. 1/4 inch board is even more important when there are multiple curbs because the liner will be slightly bunched up at intersections. Using the mesh tape is always important but especially so where two overlays meet one another.
Great idea and Video. I was thinking.....to make the Choryloyl be a tighter fit on the curb. Cam you nail on some Choryloyl on the 2x4 Curb and the glue the Choryloyl pan to the Choryloyl Curb? That would make that a nice tighter fit, rather than a loose fit. Is that worth the extra effort??
Thank you. I can see how your idea would help reduce how loose a typical liner is on the curb but as long as the liner was put in with proper corner dams, the liner being a loose fit is fine.
I built mine similar to this video, but I used construction adhesive between the liner and the wood. I’m not sure if it actually worked, but I did it. I also did the pan first and used mesh tape where the curb met the pan. I believe I put some screws on top, but I definitely used none on the inside.
Great idea! Will this method work with 1/2 inch cement board too?
1/2 inch board will work but the thinset under the cement board on the inside face may make your curb wider than you would like. 1/4 inch board makes it so the overall width of the curb is not far off from what a 1/2 inch board is without thinset.
Thank you!
Thank you.
Great Idea. But isn't the RedGard going to seal up any/all points ( bc it's a solid water proof membrane)
No. Since the Red Guard or any other brand of bonded waterproofing does not cover the bottom of the inside face, the area where the pan mortar and wallboard are in proximity to one another, Moisture, in small part, may be carried up from the pan and behind the inside face of the curb. Just like a tree pulls water up from the ground, cement board and any other cementitious product will draw some water into it. If there is a screw in the liner, capillary action may bring some water high enough to a screw, and surface tension of the screw may continue to draw the water into the wood 2x4's. This quantity of moisture that is drawn up is not enough to travel to the top of the curb and will dry out in between use. But a low screw does present potential for water over the years to damage the integrity of the assembly.
Topical waterproofing like Red Guard is excellent if every possible place for water penetration is completely covered. For this type of shower, TCNA 415, which is an unbonded membrane shower receptor, topical waterproofing serves as moisture limiter. For Red Guard to function as the total waterproofing a shower must conform to TCNA B421 or B422 which is also referred to as a sealed system.
Thanks for the question!
I would have perhaps liquid nail glue down the curb flap of the shower pan liner.
The issue that I see with the Dura rock being stuck down inside the soon to be set shower pan mortar?, Is that it will wick-up whatever water does make it into the shower pan which will set the entire thing up for failure and mold propagation.
Hi, Mold cannot be created in this curb as there is no food source. Cement materials like Durock and cement mortar are not a food source. Neither is the vinyl liner. Mold requires; moisture, darkness, and a food source.
This shower conforms to TCNA B415-20. See page 242 of the 2020 TCNA Handbook.
There is no concern of water wick. This shower is, utilizing cement board is permitted to have the wallboard lower than the mortar bed. A fiber cement board however is not.
The board, and or thinset, would have to "drink" a substantial amount of liquid, and by sustantial I mean; The drain is stopped up and the shower can't drain for days. If a pre-pitch is used and the weep holes are protected, water wicking cannot cause a problem.
Thank you
Thanks for sharing. At this point do you pour the final mud bed touching the Durock walls? Does it wick moisture?
At this point the next step would be to waterproof the walls and the wallboard on the curb.
The pan mortar can touch the wallboard as in TCNA method B415 cement backer board.
TCNA B415 Fiber cement board cannot.
The difference is that while both boards have a high absorbancy, Cement board has a larger pore structure. Capillary action that causes wicking, requires finer and tighter materials to bring water up against gravity. Fiber in fiber board is like a paper towel drawing water up, cement board is no where as near in efficiency in drawing water upwards, and so it is permitted into the mortar of the shower pan.
Thank you
@@trendsettertilestone9602 so Durock is cement board and permitted to rest on the mortar bed. Do you ever use Hardibacker? Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge.
@@aaplzen9051 You are quite welcome. Yes cement board is permitted to rest on the mortar bed or be installed lower than the top of the mortar bed.
We do not select Hardi-backer or fiber board for construction of our showers. There is nothing wrong with fiber cement products and when installed correctly they are just as functional and long lasting as other types of board. If you are comfortable with a specific type than you should use that type.
The majority of our showers are Laticrete or Schluter system which use foam panels and bonded waterproof membranes. This is often because the showers we do are curbless and we need complete system integration from the shower walls to the drain.
Foam panels are also very rigid. Cement board on the walls has some "give" between the stud framing. This perceived give, or bounce, from the substrate can be interpreted by an installer as lack, or overabundance of mortar when that may not be the case. Feedback from a substrate can often speed up or slow down an installation. The "give" should be considered a characteristic of cement board and not a flaw. We choose a shower type based on many factors but material consistency and predictability play a big part.
For the most part we do not use cement board. It is however very helpful in situations like in this video.
The manufacturers directions in combination with the ANSI standards and TCNA guidlines, increase the longevity regardless of the board selection.
Thank you again.
The only problem i see is that the thinset will not stick to the pan liner! It won't stick! That's why people float the curb. I think you should at least wrap it with wire mesh so the thinset will stick to the wire mesh. Another option is to use a type of membrane that thinset will stick to. Noble ts can be used as a pan liner and thinset will stick to it.
Hi, thanks for the comment. The thinset is not meant to "stick" to the liner. The thinset will harden into place and form a mechanical bond/anchor, as opposed to an adhesive bond. The thinset bonds to the cement board, but becomes a contoured shape around the liner which is not easily removed. This is the same concept used on Schluter Ditra, with Schluter's built in dovetails. Thinset does not bond to plastic ditra, it does however form a mechanical bond filling in the shape of the dovetail squares. Essential this is an uncoupled curb. This overlay will not be removed any easier than any other part of a demo. So yes, you cannot adhesive bond to a plastic liner, but that is not what your going for here.
When you say membrane do you mean you could roll redguard over the liner because it does says redguard adheres to pvc and therefor make it adherable
You the boss
So this is exactly like making your own noble preformed curb. Same install process too. Am I correct this is a great idea
Exactly, I learned how to do this before the noble curbs were on the market. I loved the Noble curbs when they became available but my boss never wanted to pay for them and cement board was always readily available.
The preformed curb overlays sometimes develop a slight twist during installation and they can be fussy depending on how well the plumber installed the liner. Making the overlay myself takes 5 minutes and I use the rest of the board for other things on the job.
Thanks!
Question for Trendsetter Tile & Stone: What kind of thinset did you use under the cement board and on top of the PVC liner? It was my understanding thinset would not adhere to the PVC liner?
The thinset is not meant to "stick" to the liner. The thinset will harden into place and form a mechanical bond/anchor, as opposed to an adhesive bond. The thinset bonds to the cement board, but becomes a contoured shape around the liner which is not easily removed. This is the same concept used on Schluter Ditra, with Schluter's built in dovetails. Thinset does not bond to plastic ditra, it does however form a mechanical bond filling in the shape of the dovetail squares. Essential this is an uncoupled curb. This overlay will not be removed any easier than any other part of a demo. So yes, you cannot adhesive bond to a plastic liner, but that is not what your going for here.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 Makes sense! Thanks for your reply (and time)!
@@trendsettertilestone9602 lmao amazing how delusional you are.
@@SomeDumUsrName onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/9781119044123.ch1
A little light reading for you wizard
Nice job my curb slab is 6 inches in diameter can 1/2 Durock be used in this install technique that would leave me approx 1 inch over hang on each side of the curb , please let me know Thank You
You can use 1/2" Durock. Your outside face would increase a half inch since the board is screwed directly on the outside, but on the inside you would increase about three quarters of an inch or more for the thickness of the board as well as the thin set mortar used behind it.
We use 1/4 inch board to help minimize the profile and height on the top.
Great video, really can see you know your stuff
I like the idea, but not sure about the inside piece. It would seem that once the curb dried it wouldn't take much effort to separate the inside duroc piece away from liner. I don't know for sure, but that liner is not attached to the 2x4 , so its just kind of loose and now your bonding duroc to that? I bet I could pull away that piece of duroc the next day with minimal effort....
This overlay is quite strong once it's meshed up with an adequate amount of mortar under the cement board. The impact strength is very strong and the pull strength is the same as a foam overlay but maybe slightly less than wire mesh curbs. Regardless, once your mortar bed/dry pack is up against the inside face of your curb, there is no pulling the inside face off!
oh, ok, i missed that, i thought you were packing under the inside board, not against it. so yes, if you pack up to it and lock it in, then its not going anywhere, but now you get into the debate of the "should you bury the duroc in the pack or not" debate. i personally never bury my duroc down into the pack because i feel it can wick some moisture, but i guess if you waterproof the duroc face and edge its fine.. i do like the way you did it, its pretty cool and seems alot easier than mesh and mud for sure...
What should the minimum height of the finished curb be inside the shower?? Thank you
The size of the shower pan, and the drain location make the depth from curb top to pan top a variable. When possible, I make the minimum depth from the top of the finished curb to the top of the finished pan no less than 1 and a half inches. A very long pan with a drain that is offset to one side can make the pan depth shallow on the end farthest from the drain. A curb that built 3 2x4s high can accommodate over an inch of slope from the far end to the drain in a 5 ft long shower easily, and still leave you with 3 inches of depth. Your local building code would be your official reference for this question. Thanks
@@trendsettertilestone9602 Thank you for your reply
So how do you support your cement board on the wall where the membrane is on the bottom
Fasteners must be installed no lower than four inches above the height of the curb, on any walls within the enclosure. This is the local building code in my area.
When the dry pack/mortar bed is installed along, and against the cement board walls, this will provide stability for the lowest part of the board.
This is only for cement board and some foam board types.
Fiber cement, coated glass mat, gypsum board, or fiber reinforced board must not be installed below the height of the finished mortar bed. Some require a gap and some require sealant.
Four inches above the curb usually translates to eight to nine inches above the mortar bed.
The CTEF recommends fasteners eight inches apart and most manufacturers recommend between 8 to12 inches apart.
The lack of fasteners at the very bottom of the installation will not effect the assemblies integrity provided the stud spacing is no greater than 16 inches o.c. and the board is a rigid type at 1/2 inch thick.
Thank you
Do you per slope the pan
Yes for this shower type, which is a TCNA B415-20, a pre-slope is required. The pre-slope under the liner and the mortar slope above the liner are both to be a 1/4 inch per foot.
I really like this method! I want to try it today however it's going to be hard because my curb has 2-45deg turns in it.
Yes, Neo angles most likely. They are usually 22.5 degrees and can be tough to figure out when you're not used to it. If you do have 45's and not 22.5's to do they should be a little easier. This video ruclips.net/video/fSe1ELEK1CM/видео.html shows some basics for finding the angle. You could make templates with cardboard so you don't chew up cement board trying to find the angles.
Best of luck, sorry but it's hard to explain how to do these angles through the keyboard.
This could be asking for trouble after several times of stepping on the curb after tiling, I can't see how it won't loosen without any screws. Screw it coat it with thin set, then put a few screws in the upper edge of the inside of the curb and on top. The odds of that causing a water issue are slim to none.
Screws are death for curbs. Screws move a lot of water via surface tension. Just like when you use a hose and the water might travel from your hand along your arm all the way to your elbow. Screws facilitate failures.
There is no standard in the TCNA handbook for a curb using screws on the inside or the top of the curb. There are only three types; mortar curb, preformed curb, and solid curb.
The curb is just as strong as a lath and mud over a 2x4.
Hey C-3PO, "Never tell me the odds"
my old shower I demolished because of curb failure, they nailed the inside wall of the linner and the top , which caused water to soak up into the wood for many years, the wood deteriorated , their where worms in the wood, well it looked like dirt not with small wood chippings. the tile was the one holding the strength, no movement or squishyness at all . But in this video I still don't understand how the background will not soak up the water from the inside of the pan, what ive seen is that the walls soak up the water if installed into the pan . that's why some say to leave a gap between cement backerboard and the pan , and only the tiles touch the pan . but this curb backerboard is touching the pan. Do we leave a gap as well? and let only the tiles touch bottom of pan?
@@trendsettertilestone9602 ^
@@ArtOfTheWeld Hi, there are eleven shower types in the TCNA handbook. The shower in the video is B415. It does not require that the cement board be installed above the mud in the shower pan. It is one of the few like this. Think about it like this;
The wallboard on the curb is on top of the thin-set mortar and the liner, there are no screws in the curb on the top of the curb or the inside face. How can water get to the 2x4 lumber that is used as the curb base? It cannot, provided the liner is installed properly with corner dams and no penetrations.
The mud will make contact with the cement wallboard, and some water may be pulled up into the cement board via capillary action. The cement board can handle it. Cement board does not deteriorate with water intrusion. It is not a food source for mold growth. The only part of the assembly that is in danger is the 2x4 lumber, if it is not properly isolated from water during it's service.
Cement fiber board, say Fiber-Rock, is a board that cannot be installed into the pan mortar. Coated Glass Mat water resistant gypsum, like Dens-Shield is another one that can't touch the mortar bed. On both of those showers a gap is required and should be filled with a flexible sealant.
I understand if your skeptical, you can always install the cement board higher than the pan mortar. But the cement board being wet is not a problem unless there is a screw somewhere to transfer the water to the back of the assembly.
A Bonded waterproofing membrane is required over the cement board on the walls which in this instance would include the curb. The bonded waterproofing does not prevent the cement board from wicking water up and into it, but it does prevent water from getting to the board through the board face.
Check out this link:
www.tile-magazine.com/articles/88016-how-to-install-a-beautiful-and-functional-stall-shower?
You've got the right idea. You are taking a thorough approach and I appreciate that!
The TCNA Handbook won't let you down, and if it's in the handbook it's been through the TCNA lab, and only lasting assemblies are shown in the handbook.
Does this method work with hardiebacker fiberboard?
No. The composition of fiberboard does not allow it to keep its integrity when it is bent along the partial cuts. Fiberboard cannot be installed below the mud line in a pan or in contact with the pan mud for that matter.
While cement board has a high porosity, Fiber board has an even higher rate of absorption. Fiber board has a strong capillary action and will draw water from the pan mortar if it is in contact with the pan mortar.
Thank you
Thanks for your detailed response, i really appreciate it. Subscibed👍🏻
Have you ever used Kerdi membrane instead of PVC liner? I'm considering using Kerdi, because you can tile directly over it. But I'm confused as to why people put Kerdi in front of the wall board, instead of behind like PVC liner installs.
We use Kerdi regularly. Kerdi is a bonded membrane and a PVC liner is an unbonded membrane. There are several shower types in the TCNA Handbook. Kerdi is used on two specific shower types when integrating the waterproofing into the drain. Unbonded methods are integrated at the bottom of the drain, known as a three piece clamping flange, whereas Kerdi installations use a bonding flange drain where the waterproofing meets at the top of the flange. Both shower types have some pros and cons. We use Schluter Kerdi for the majority of our curbless showers, along with Laticrete Hydro-Ban which is also the same shower type TCNA B422C.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 thanks for replying. I understand all of that, including why you would want to Hydro Ban the thinset'd seams. And that you must bond Kerdi with unmodified thinset or use All-set. But what I don't get is why Kerdi is used in front of the wall board, instead of behind. You could say there's nothing to bond to, but it would be compressed in place by the board in front. I plan on using Kerdi, in lieu of the PVC liner, with the 3 piece clamping flange, instead of the bonding flange; I don't like how large Kerdi's flange is.
@@adde32332 I would't recommend using the Kerdi behind the wallboard, the manufacturer wouldn't stand behind it and there is nothing to lose in using the PVC liner if you're ultimately making a TCNA B415 shower anyway.
If I was going to make a shower that had to have a three piece clamping flange, and I wanted to use a bonded membrane, I would make a TCNA B-421 utilizing Hydo Ban waterproofing and a "divot" around the drain.
This video ruclips.net/video/ZzAPYCahET0/видео.html
shows a shower similar to B421 in a drawing with a divot around the 40:06 mark.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 I understand that putting Kerdi behind wallboard is not best practice. But I am trying to understand why. PVC liners have been around longer, and they always go behind the board to prevent water that seeps through the tile and mortar from reaching the underlying framing and subfloor. Why wouldn't the same logic apply to Kerdi membrane?
@@adde32332For the most part the Kerdi may function very similar to pvc. Since it is thinner, it is possible that it would fold better than pvc.
However, It is waterproof, but not vapor proof. Kerdi is a vapor retarder, unlike pvc which vapor impermeable, or at least as close as you get to vapor proof.
Perhaps if water sat on the Kerdi, under a mortar bed, and for whatever reason; poor pre slope or clogged weep holes, the water eventually evaporated through the Kerdi, moisture may re-condense on the other side.
Damage to the framing or subfloor would probably take a good deal of time, but the Kerdi probably leaves greater potential than pvc for this to happen.
With Kerdi on top of the pan mortar the drying potential is greater. If the Kerdi was under the pan mortar there is a higher chance that the moisture would rest on top of the Kerdi and eventually get through via vapor migration.
When Kerdi is on top of the mortar, and the wallboard, it becomes a sealed system. And while it will still have moisture vapor pass through it, it is far less because it dries out more efficiently between each showers use. Pan mortar, while efficient in directing excess moisture towards clean weep holes, will eventually over time lose efficiency and hold onto more and more water as the years go by.
I thought the title of this video was not piercing the rubber with any screws ? I learned that cut though with Becky board good stuff but I'd still like to see how to install it without piercing the rubber liner
The screws on the outside face of the curb are not penetrating a section of liner that is used in waterproofing. The liner on the outside of the curb is excess liner as long as the top of the curb is pitched properly towards the drain.
Will this work for a cinder block curb
yes, process is the same.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 you didn’t add any thinset on the face of the curb I can’t screw into concrete blocks
@@781redrum8 You can, you would have to use Tapcon screws into the block. A hole is drilled with a masonry bit and then the Tapcon is used
@@trendsettertilestone9602 thanks didn’t know that
I always thought thinset will to stick on pvc liner??
Please read the description
I have never been more torn in my life... do I make the curb like you, which I like, not penetrating the liner but risking the inside cement board making the grout crack because it's loose... I do not want to butt the mortar bed up to the cement board. My last shower was builder grade and the curb failed after like 15 years or so.
Or, do I stick with my man Star tile and screw in the cement board through the liner and just redgard the crap out of it??? The glass guy said they screw through the curb to install the door anyways... I don't know what to do!
The shower door guy will screw through the curb. If he's worth his salt he will fill the hole with silicone sealant when he installs his anchors prior to fastening the screws. Take a look at the description to this video.
Star tile...ugh.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 What if I redgard the cement board before I put it on the curb and put the mud bed up against it? Then there is protection from water weeping and also I wouldn't have to screw into the liner except for the shower door hinge
@@troydarling7614 I think I understand but to clarify this shower's sequence of events;
1.2x4's for the curb installed.
2. Drain installed.
3. Pre-slope installed.
4. Liner installed on top of pre-slope, curb, and up the wall minimum 6 inches above the expected finished curb height.
5.*Perform flood test* 24 hours
6.Cement board overlay installed over the curb, Allow the thin-set mortar to dry under the overlay and on the curbs edges and corners where you applied the mesh and thinset.
7. Apply bonded waterproofing membrane over the walls and the curb.
8. Install the mortar for slope-to-drain on top of the PVC liner, being sure to protect the weep holes.
Cement board is one of the few showers that can have the pan mortar installed along the wallboard. Fiber board cannot have pan mud touch it, nor can board such as Dens-Shield.
9.Begin tile installation.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 yes sir, exactly. I am on step 5, then I saw this video and liked the not-screwing-into-the-curb method you use. I always use durock cement board, I think redgarding the curb overlay before putting in the mud bed in the pan will make me feel better about possible water weeping up in that area. The other walls I will leave a gap so they don't touch just in case.
I think this is the plan! thanks a lot for responding. You are now my favorite tile you tuber lol
@@troydarling7614 Thank you! I wish we had more of a drive when it comes to putting videos together.
Is there any one out there that doesn't use 2x4 wood for a curb.Why are you using wood in a wet area and doing a solid cement pour of the pan with out the wood or has no one made a video of how too pour a pan with out using wood as a curb.. I would like too see one.
The 2x4 curb is outside of the wet area as long as the waterproofing I.E. the PVC liner, and topical membrane are installed correctly with no punctures or gaps. The 2x4 is friendly in size and stability, which is why they are often use.
The only time they fail is when they are done wrong!
Here is a link to a guy doing a mud curb.
ruclips.net/video/pTcA04aZH2Y/видео.html
It requires a higher level of skill and can be much more time consuming to those unfamiliar with it.
There are several different ways to build, waterproof and tile curbs.
Good luck!
@@trendsettertilestone9602 thanks I'll watch the link.
How about just using screws and putting kerdi over the curb then you don't have to worry about outside corners getting water in them
Putting waterproofing, any type of waterproofing over screw penetrations will not make this type of curb waterproof if there is a screw on the inside or the top.
Topical waterproofing, whether fabric applied or liquid applied, does not stop water from traveling up from the pan behind the board. The water that is drawn up would find the screw and travel along it into the 2x4's behind it.
The only way the Schluter System works is when the shower is covered in Schluter completely. That means the entire pan, curb, walls, etc.
This shower is a TCNA B415 and has its limitations. A Schluter shower is a TCNA B422 and is functionally different.
Thanks
you may be waterproofing that curb, but the tiles will move and cause the thinset to breakdown and the tiles or whatever you have glued on there will pop off or break.
and it won’t take long for it to happen.
are you doing this at your house or for a customer? have any customers called you back because it’s leaking of breaking apart?
i like that it’s water proof before the durock or hardie board but it’s too cushiony.
it’s too soft of a base for tile of any kind.
hopefully it works, but don’t trust it.
Hey Gino, give it a try. It works.
Read the description to understand how it works.
every one says thin set does not stick to the pan liner
That's right it doesn't. It doesn't need to. The shape of the Durock with the mortar is making a mold around the curbs liner. The molded shape is what attaches this part of the assembly, not an adhesive bond.
Great idea but what if someone stands on the curb (because you know they will at some point)...I'd be afraid of the bond breaking on the loose liner.
We, I, every contractor on the job, walks all over the curb. There is no problem, the curb will not move.
I have prepared curbs days in advance, with all kinds of trades stompin around the job.
The key thing here is that we're not bonding to the liner at all. The thin-set mortar is forming a mold around the liner of the curb. Once the mortar is cured, it's not moving. Especially after the tile and additional thin-set is applied to it.
This method is no different than lath and mud over the liner in terms of performance.
The only part I'm not thrilled with is the 1/4 inch backer, it flexs a lot and your screws could pull through, and with 1/2 inch backer, Your curb will be stronger and curb top cuts will be larger and with the large bull nose the cuts will be a better match to the larger tile most people have went to. Hey just my 2 cents and 40 plus years, hundreds of showers later.
I understand but with the mortar under the backer there is no flex. I know what you mean when you say screws on 1/4 inch board can pull through. I have not experienced any pull through with this method and if I had I would not put this method up. I'm sure the screw pullout you've seen with 1/4 inch is most likely from when it's installed on a wood substrate, and when stepped on the flex causes the pullout.
The reason we don't use the 1/2 inch board is because with the addition of the mortar under the board it can make the curb slightly wide. It might make the curb 6 1/4 or slightly more which is too big in my opinion. With 1/4 inch I can be sure the curb will not be wider than 6".
I appreciate your comment and I can tell you have real experience by the question. Thanks again!
Thanks bud, I really enjoy install tile. I take my time to insure a great job. A few years ago I had 5 guys working for, witch turned out to be 5 headaches. I cut back to 1 great one. I explain to who ever works with me, MY NAME is on EVERY piece of tile installed, not theirs, mine! They couldn't stand me, I was Dick, but oh well, I have a Great name in the business. Old school, use to do mud walls and floors. A tub surround would pay 250.00, crazy right. Okay man. Bust ass.PS I'd like to share a couple ideas with you on pans and curbs. I'm sure I've done about a thousand showers.
@@jamesderbaum9678 I'd love to talk, fill out the contact form at this link www.southfloridatileinstallation.com/contact-us.html
and I will give you a call!
THINSET DOES NOT STICK TO PVC SHEETING
Read the description captain obvious.
I felt to sleep
How did it feel?
This technique is a little doubtful. If your inside liner at the curb is not secured neither will your cement board curb. Any movement in that area might cause potential trouble.
This technique is no different than lath and mud. Which is considered a reliable method. Instead of mortar/fat mud, thinset is used, and instead of lath, cement board is used. Both are applied over a liner in this shower type. Fat mud is not used as an adhesive- neither is the thinset. Lath is used for shape conformity-so is the cement board. The liner moving is not an issue, especially if you consider the fact that the shower pan mortar is installed against the curb further solidifying the overlay.
In no way would I be comfortable ever doing this...though I read some comments where you say the pieces can't pull away because the force of mortar in pan, you marry the mortar and backer which allows moisture to wick up & out onto outside floor...
Unless you're going to waterproof the entire shower, in which case screwing all 3 pieces of backer into liner/curb would be easier and make it irrelevant that you compromised the curb.....just saying
1. The moisture through capillary action will not make the journey up and over the curb. If it did, that would put at risk any mortar curb, like a mud and lath curb for instance or a shaped foam overlay. Please remember a shower is being built here, not a swimming pool. The shower will dry out in between use and water will not make it out because of "moisture wicking up".
2. The curb built this way is very strong. Don't forget the tile to be installed around it along with the thin-set under the tile only increases its strength.
3. You stated that since a bonded waterproofing membrane will be added to the walls and curb, that keeping the screws out of the pan liner makes the bonded membrane redundant. Or irrelevant as you stated. That is foolish of you to say because if what you said in section the 1st is correct, that would mean through moisture wicking, on it's way over the curb(lol), would also imply that the same moisture may pass through the fastener on the inside of the curb face. Which you said was okay, since a bonded waterproofing covers the entirety of wallboard in the installation.
So do you still think it's okay to put screws through a liner just because your adding topical waterproofing to the board?
Now take a deep breath and realize you are not special. You're a smart ass, and there is nothing special about that.
Word to your mother
@@trendsettertilestone9602
You're correct on 2 things...yes, I am a smart ass, though you don't know me well enough to know that ✔
And yes, liquid topical membrane or even kerdi on pan & curb makes it possible and ok to perforate liner, and it's 100% waterproofed in and out...plus I raise my wallboard all the way around, no wicking, no transfer of moisture EVER to outside...if you believe in water in/ water out garbage and don't waterproof then yes, capillary action will kick in.
Not something I'm guessing at, see it all the time on demos and document that proof on my channel...subfloor rotted outside curb...sometimes transfers under liner and ruins entire flooring.
Your TCNA won't help you on real world failures.
Second thing your right about...I am special 👍👌💪
This is thread is good. I literally was hoping to find this and, what do you know? I did.
@@StarrTile Isn't this the "I don't need no steenkin' preslope guy?"
@@lazarususa and aren't you the 3rd in command for trolls on tile videos ? 😂😂😂
I tell you what book soldier, you prove to me that a pre slope works as intended and I'll send you $1,000...PayPal is preferred method by I'll pull up to your house and hand it to you, bet you won't take my bet, trolls never do...time starts now, you have a week ⏰
That is not durable, the mud won’t adhere to the liner. The liner is simply rolled over the 2x4’s and is loose therefore your inside piece of backer board is going to be loose. You could easily pull that apart with a small tug on the inside. The answer lies in not using wood inside your curb period. You need a mud curb with no foreign objects inside the curb.
I don't know why guys like you need to pretend to know it all. This works, and it works well. Try reading the comments and you'll see I address that the liner is not meant to adhere to the board with thin-set. Go ahead...If you wanna talk some time go to our website and give me a call. I'm here to help, not to criticize somebody with a method that I'm not familiar with. Best of luck to you, and for real, give me a call. I much prefer to make a friend out of you.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 I am familiar with this method. I’ve had a very long career in the tile trade and over the years have tried every method known to man to build a curb efficiently and durable. I’m not a know it all but do have a vast experience with mud pans as 80% of my work is showers. I not long ago took over a job where they built curbs this way and while it appeared stout it wasn’t as strong as a true mud curb. It is better than running screws through your liner though. My point is if you had to tear out a mud curb vs a backer board curb the difference would be obvious which one is the strongest. And I would be happy to reach out and chat. Appreciate your input.
Meanwhile constumer making complaint about cost to done a shower base
This is not gonna hold up. This is incorrect.
Go back into your hole troll!
Best way is not to do it. Thinset doesn't bond to a liner
Try reading the description handsome.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 yeah. So what. Thinset is just that. THINLY SET. It is a process of thinly setting mortar. The mortar also had limitations. It is not designed to be used as a filler to make things level. It also has a maximum thickness. Read it on the bag. You are a hack
@@speedy63663 Hey handsome, no need to get ugly. The product is not used in a way that exceeds it's limitations.
The mortar may look excessive upon application but once the overlay is compressed the mortar does not exceed a half inch in depth which is acceptable according to any bag of LHT, and some LHT's allow for three quarters of an inch.
Do you know the company Noble?
Here is a link doing the same thing in this video with a pre-formed overlay.
www.bbindustriesllc.com/noble-285-preformed-curb-overlay-36.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwr4eYBhDrARIsANPywCgTPvQlvwFQsFSFxyQdo294PGXgWGT7cAu5WMUvk4P9GgDFaZTyZP8aAkqPEALw_wcB
Man you better call Noble and straighten them out!
Look man, I understand that this assembly seems improper to you, and by the way you've commented I can see that your someone that values quality workmanship.
Your comment though is wrong.
Best of luck.
Again with this method the problem is the curb is a high-traffic area being stepped on getting in and out of shower. Although I do like this method I just know that the curb needs to be solid and tight. After a short time of traffic stepping on this curb the mortar will eventually crack and break out and cause the curb to crumble apart under the tile. Ultimately water can get into this area and underneath the shower pan tile. Putting screws in the curb and Redgaurd to the pan liner is more efficient. You could even go as far as red guarding all two-by-fours completely sides top bottom and seems in-between. Remembering that the first coat will be diluted with water for better absorption.
I assure you this curb is very strong. The tile and the thin-set used to install the tile after the curb is built only adds to the strength of this curb.
Bonded waterproofing should always be used on the curb and walls even though a liner is used here.
As far as a high traffic area concern, in most instances the curb is stepped over as opposed to onto. This curb when completed can handle plenty of traffic, and by completed I mean tiled and grouted, and by traffic I mean even in a commercial application.
With that being said, given the choice I would not use a B-415 in a commercial location.
Thank you for commenting.
Geeze. My trade is dead. Does anyone know how to float a shower anymore? This is so wrong.
Keep being crotchety, I approve of mud work but not dinosaurs like yourself that can't see past the only thing they know. Mud work is one type of method, not the almighty method. Cheer up fossil there's nothing wrong here!
Savages, savages everywhere 🤣
curbs are old school. Curbless is what's in fashion.
Old school will be around long after the fashion trends fade away. So, l am watching just in case 👉🏼🔥🤏🏼
This is not good installation, nothing secure the curb ,eventually the tile over the curb gone crack, maybe in one month o less
Lol
Thin set doesnt grip on liner big fail amateurer work stay away from the trade
lol Butcher!
Unique, but not an industry approved method. No thinset mortar manufacturer would warranty their product being used to fabricate a curb in that manner. That’s not what thinset mortar is used for, it is used to set tiles. period.
This is a think outside the box method. It came about as a solution when skilled mudwork was on the decline and careless installers were penetrating liners with regularity. I understand that because this method has not been defined by the guidelines you feel it must not work.
If that is the case why would Noble, Laticrete, and others manufacture foam overlays. That are to be installed in the same manor as this method.
Laticrete states "Works in conjunction with most LATICRETE tile and stone installation materials."
Heres a link to the product.
stonetooling.com/laticrete-hydro-ban-preformed-curb-overlay/?scid=scplp70.607&sc_intid=70.607&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwg4SpBhAKEiwAdyLwvKL8VxdG06EhPnjGsPMfjJbbhe2AFwSpMb_tdy0LSI1KH88pdA4lFxoCwZIQAvD_BwE
The fact of the matter is that the handbook is vague in the description of how some things are done intentionally. Products like uncoupling membranes took over a decade to get into the TCNA handbook. When it came about everyone scoffed at uncoupling. "No way you can stick to plastic, this can't work!"
Ingenuity and practicality has always had its place in construction. This method still operates within TCNA guidlines since manufacturer guidlines overide the handbook.
Even if something is not in the book that does not preclude it from being in a tile assembly. Unless specifically stated. Like spot bonding for example.
We put this video up because it shows a practical way to construct a curb when mudwork skills are not on tap. You may have been taught mud work, and so you can understand that mud work is not something that can be learned over a video. Mud work takes finesse, a lot of time spent practicing, and a proper teacher.
Word to your mother
That inside curb flap will definitely detach over time and crack the tiles. Very poor install.
lol
Not funny for paying customer. And, you did pierce the membrane with the exterior side screws. Later.@@trendsettertilestone9602
Watch and then read. It can't detach. You can see in the video that the shower floor mud HAS NOT been installed yet. The shower deck mud will be against it and under the edge of it, which will lock it all together and make it tight.
The only part I wasn't so sure about was that most folks are saying not to have the wallboard touching the shower floor. Here, he is saying that the cement board (like Durock) IS allowed to contact the shower floor mud, right?
It's all as clear as mud, yes? 🤔🤪🤣
You should never install the dry pack over the cement board walls and inner curb. Never.@@jeffleonard5535
OMG! are people actually doing this? The curb isn't even secured at all because the PVC isn't secured.... you can't mount unsecured things to ... other unsecured things. terrible advice.
OMG! I understand how you might feel this way.
Read the description.
Stop using OMG, you're welcome.
It would seem to me that once the curb is screwed in from the outside, you then pour cement inside to make your sloped floor, if the cement goes over the curb just built even by 1”, it will secure the whole thing. Plus you’ll be adding more thinset and tile over the curb anyway. It seems to me that this will work just fine. The way the curb was built it’s like a cast, the screws on the outside hold it in place and the cement on the inside holds the other side. It’s not going anywhere, unless it’s on the ceiling and even then I don’t think it will go anywhere
thinset DOES NOT stick to pvc liner. Both manufacturers tell you that thinset should never be applied to pvc. Fingers crossed that it doesn’t move and crack your grout lines in the future.
Fingers crossed that you read the description
@@trendsettertilestone9602 you built the curb out of 2x4’s?
@@mk-jm5tv Yes
No..that's NOT how you do it
How do YOU do it?
@@trendsettertilestone9602 read your TCNA handbook
@@jeffd5970 Thanks for the reminder!
Title should say "How to NOT do a shower curb." Absolute Garbage.
You're another one that needs to read the description. This method works.
@@trendsettertilestone9602 No. You haven't a single clue about structural integrity. This 'will' fail, and unfortunately a bunch of doofus home owners are going to repeat this garbage and fuck their shower up. I read every comment. You're obviously very hard headed and don't listen to professionals.
This technique is a little doubtful. If your inside liner at the curb is not secured neither will your cement board curb. Any movement in that area might cause potential trouble.
He poured a mortar bed which goes up against the inside face so its a non issue.