I think we all forget the basic rule of business. When the headline says it made a billion dollars the movie studio only gets about 55% of that. Then you have to add in marketing and advertising costs. If you spend $400 million dollars to make and market the movie you're going to need to make 800 million at the box office just break even. At least this is what I've been told. I think the truth lies somewhere in between.
This trilogy might have been great if Kathleen Kennedy hadn’t torn up the agreement she had with George Lucas. The way Han was needlessly killed off and what Luke became was so disrespectful. The ‘modern speak’ as you mentioned, just feels jarring. You are 100% right with how messy this trilogy is. I originally didn’t like the prequels but they have grown on me for the simple reason is that Lucas is quality, had a real vision and gave us two genuine trilogies from the outset. This is so not the case here and shows the direction that Disney wanted to go in.
The Last Jedi gave Luke Skywalker a crisis of faith OFF SCREEN?!?!? As Mark Hamill said, the character Rian Johnson wrote wasn’t Luke - how in the heck did they let this script through? The level of incompetence here is just beyond the pale. Saying the trilogy is “messy” is an understatement.
Lucas made 3 great movies with the original trilogy. I can't stand that Lucas has Anakin kill the children in Revenge of the Sith. Vader has no redemption after killing children. So for me, the prequels don't exist.
We were right as rain. The sequel trilogy were soul-less, cash-grab, abortion-of-franchise SW movies, especially compared to the Lucas movies, most especially compared to the original trilogy. These empty vessels SW movies are simply atrocious, especially the last 2.
Lmao dude , I was actually stoked when I found out we were getting more Star Wars Movies. I LOVE the original movies btw cause those of the ones that made me become a fan in the first place.
@@CerealAtMidnightgee, you assume that he assumed you like the movies now. He’s just saying “no, I’ll save you the time. They’re just bad movies.” No amount of viewing or re-viewing will make the movies good.
I am about to watch this video and I really hope it ends up with you realizing that they are terrible. I have tried and tried and tried to like these films. Let’s see… Edit: yup. Force Awakens feels decent but then you realize it goes nowhere and the trilogy ends up leaving you feeling empty.
Actually they could never return to the glory days of the first trilogy. Those three films will always be the greatest of Star Wars. You just can't go back.
It seriously pains me to think of these movies, and the waste of talent and opportunity they had to continue the story. I read the expanded universe too and yeah theres so many things they could have done but they couldnt and still wont let go of their agenda. Thats the most important thing to them. Its why Rey is now a Skywalker. In her next movie they will call her Master Skywalker. The force is still female. Dont forget. She'll reform the order, something Luke did in the books and they should have focused on in these movies. Or it should have already been re-established. They had 30 years. In my version of The Last Jedi, Rey goes with Kylo Ren willingly to see Snoke and maybe she turns to the darkside and thats what the Resistance thinks and thats the cliffhanger we are left with. In "rise of skywalker" Luke has no choice but to come back and confront his old student and Snoke and with help of Rey's old campanions bring her back to the light. And what if Kylo had returned to the light too. Kylo and Rey didnt make a bad couple lol. Anyway, theres so much. And it hurts. These movies are evil and vomit on everything that is star wars and everything that could've been...
Yeah, pretty much on the same page, but I do think Rise of Skywalker was significantly worse than the other two, not being just bad Star Wars, but a bad film (how many fake outs of characters appearing to die, but not, can you fit in one movie?) It was all recoverable until that point. Force Awakens was fun at the time, but less so now that we know it wasn't really setting up anything. I thought Last Jedi was the best of the three (certainly not without flaws itself) and Johnson a far better director than Abrams, but it has no relation to what came before or after. Who would have thought we'd wish we had the work of the Jurassic World guy.
Recently, I watched the sequel trilogy. I focus on Rey's and Ben Solo characters. I found a coherent narrative. The story is about them. It's no longer Luke, Leia, and Han story. I enjoyed very much.
Real question: when is the law of diminishing returns not in effect? I feel like so many of these companies are tarnishing classics by continuing to mine them for profits. It fails ten times for every one time it succeeds.
@@CerealAtMidnight They haven’t the imagination to write anything new anymore and the oversized budgets meaning they won’t take risks on new concepts, only safe bets on previously successful IPs.
I believe that's true. Everything now is an echo of what was once original and fresh. Ghostbusters, Transformers, Star Wars, all these Marvel movies, Warner's continued attempt to keep The Wizarding World alive long after the story was told, just about everything we're being fed is a distant echo of something that first made a splash years ago.
I loved Force Awakens initially but after a few viewings, it’s just so-so. It has some great moments still. Han Solo, worst on screen death ever. Last Jedi, I’m not even going to talk about it and I never saw Rise. Of all the Disney Star Wars movies, Rouge One is amazing and honestly, I liked Solo outside of some bad dialogue.
I have friends that were HUGE Star Wars fans and they hate Episodes 7-9. Disney is a freaking cancer now and all they want to do is kill our childhood movies. They are the dark side. I tell my kids, just watch the original trilogy. That’s it.
They’re like the hot chick who, while maintaining a shred of good looks, is now the syphilitic hotbed you really don’t want to engage with anymore if you’re smart.
The first major problem was selling Star Wars to the Evil empire. 2nd was dumping all the EU outta cannon. I really liked Force Awakens, saw 3 times in theater, and liked parts of the other 2. I think your idea of these being products to sell instead of stories to tell is right on point. Shame really. Love the books as well. Such a waste
Agreed. Somebody's gonna say "but all movies are products!" And they're right, but the product has to have a value and a purpose, otherwise it's hollow, like an NFT or a widget. And Star Wars was never just a widget before Disney bough them.
It just sucks that they never had a plan or story treatment for all 3 movies to begin with. George had the story for the original trilogy planned out and split it into three chapters. It should've been Abrams and Kasdan from the beginning to plot out all three films to keep the consistency.
Actually, he didn’t have it fully planned out. He had a basic outline, but things changed all the time. Vader wasn’t supposed to be Luke’s father, for example.
It's a myth that Lucas had it all planned out. Star Wars was going to be a one and done movie. It was a surprise mega hit and Lucas wasn't planning for a sequel. He had to hire other writers to come up with Empire.
That’s not true, they did have a plan. JJ Abrams changed the plan and then lied to the press and told the press there was no plan. There was a plan, JJ didn’t like it and altered it.
@@ajzeg01Exactly! Luke was "hiden from his father",...on his father's home planet, at his grandmother's house, without even changing his last name! That cannot have been the part of any "plan"!
Even with a clean state of mind on these movies i cannot bare myself to watch them again. The way they handle the story, the characters and their relationships. How they evolve, like you said, Kylo was cool on the first movie but seen him defeated at the end of ep1 by someone who has no knowledge on the force or light saber fighting, it would be like Luke defeating Darth Vader on Ep4, no way that could happen and you don't want to see that happen anyways!. You want the hero to struggle, to find its way on the vast galaxy and arrive to an ending where he/she has matured and it is on pair, or better, that its nemesis. Small things like that completely ruined this new trilogy. The last installment had tons of fan service but even with all that, still feels mediocre. My biggest disappointment was when Han died. We could not watch the movie in theaters as our first daughter was too young and we had no one to babysit, so i managed to avoid any spoilers of the movie all the way until it was released on disc; and i was very excited to watch it but then when Han died, my jaw dropped to the floor, I could not believe it. I simply could not re-watch these movies, ever.
Keith Why didn’t you mention Kathleen Kennedy? She was given the keys to the kingdom and quite frankly failed. I know movies are a collaborative effort but she is at the head and should take the blame in my opinion
I did when discussing how The Force Awakens was conceived not by George Lucas or even just by J.J. Abrams, but also by Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy. Executives are not creators, and that's why so much of what we're seeing today feels hollow. The directors are often puppets of a corporate regime who's really pulling the strings, demanding plot devices, and messing things up.
They might be a slightly below average set of movies on their own. It was three films where 2 of them tried to erase and undo things that was done in the preceeding film. Like you siad, there was no well thought out plan to guide them through the trilogy. We can look back at the prequel trilogy and most assuredly say we were wrong from our initial takes. Those weren't as bad as everyone cried. This trilogy? No we weren't wrong. They are still bad.
Hated the prequels then. Hate them even more now. Lucas ruined everything with those awful movies. The sequels were a waste of time. Only the originals are worth watching.
I think you’re spot on about the sequels, Heath. I did enjoy all the films, especially THE FORCE AWAKENS, because it was essentially a carbon copy of the original STAR WARS in a lot of ways. Episodes 7-9 were all serviceable popcorn entertainment, but as a die hard Star Wars fan since the 70’s, “serviceable” is not good enough for this Star Wars franchise. We were so spoiled with how great the original trilogy was that the expectations for the prequels and sequels were definitely too unrealistic. I think the closest that we’ve come to capturing the magic of the original trilogy was the final episode of Season 2 of The Mandalorian.
Everyone always brings up Luke refusing to kill Vader, but they always forget that that moment happened after he cut him arm off and held him at the end of his lightsaber. Luke lost control, regained it, and did the right thing. The same thing happened with Ben, only Ben didn’t see it that way and became the very thing Luke feared.
I think the writing ignores the growth Luke experienced at the end of Return of the Jedi. Clearly Rian Johnson disagrees, and so do you, but it's not like the argument comes out of nowhere. Luke already faced that temptation, confronted it, and moved past it. Having him do it again feels like going backwards to me.
But that part of his character was something he gave in favour of patience and wisdom. His hotheadedness he inherited from his dad was something he moved past. Not something he would still have in him to the point where he nearly kills his student nephew thirty years later. I mean, come on.🤦🏻♂️
@@CerealAtMidnightI think part of the problem is how the scene was put together. Luke didn’t just sense darkness in Ben, he had a vision of the future where he saw Kylo Ren and what would happen. If we actually saw that vision, that would’ve been better. They could do something like Kylo Ren seeing Luke and attacking him with his lightsaber, Luke pulling out his lightsaber in self-defence, then cutting back to the real world with his lightsaber ignited over Ben. I think that would fix a lot of people’s problems with that scene, I can picture it in my head. It would’ve just made it a misunderstanding, but Luke’s feelings of guilt would still be there, his character arc of confronting his past guilt and becoming the hero the galaxy needs him to be would still work. I think the scene in the movie still works, I understand why he would have such a strong reaction to seeing a vision like that, we know from The Empire Strikes Back that Luke doesn’t do well with visions, but actually showing it would’ve gone a long way.
Solid video. I slightly disagree, as I didn't like THE FORCE AWAKENS, and I thought the next two films were worse. I'm not a huge fan of J.J. Abrams. Many of his projects start out okay (or bad) and then go off the cliff. My favorite thing from Abrams was FRINGE, but the last season is the weakest. Rian Johnson is more hit and miss, for me, but his misses (THE LAST JEDI and GLASS ONION) are way deeper than his hits. You said that Lucas did not employ auteurs. Hmmmm, I don't agree. Irvin Kershner was a pretty solid auteur director for the first 15 years of his career. He was a favorite of Pauline Kael. He veered off into more commercial fare, and then made more fantastic fare after EMPIRE. Also, Richard Marquand was a very promising directors of romantic thrillers prior to his early death. VERY interested in what you think of the prequel trilogy. Also, I greatly prefer ROGUE ONE and to a lesser degree, SOLO, to the sequel trilogy, and would be interested in what you thought of those. There are many gaps in my reading, but Dark Horse and Marvel have done a lot more interesting work with Lucas' Star Wars characters and have invented more compelling new ones, such as Doctor Aphra.
I'm really interested in your thoughts on Irvin Kershner as an auteur. Do you think that's why Empire is the most successful of the 9 films? I've always heard that Lucas shadow-directed that movie because Kersh was taking so long on every little detail, but those little details are a lot of what I love about Empire (like R2-D2 on his tip-toes peering into the window of Yoda's hut on Dagobah). Honestly, I've never thought of Kershner as an auteur, but I like the notion.
@@CerealAtMidnight I don't think of Kershner as a pantheon auteur such as Hitchock, Ford, or Welles; he's more like a second tier Sidney Lumet. His first series of feature films are all interesting to great: THE HOODLUM PRIEST, THE LUCK OF GINGER COFFEY, A FINE MADNESS, THE FLIM FLAM MAN, LOVING, and UP THE SANDBOX. All made outside of Hollywood. He was consistently championed by Pauline Kael, who praised EMPIRE. (I suspect becuse of Kershner's involvement.) He was making more Hollywood type fare (SPYS, EYES OF LAURA MARS) before doing EMPIRE. I think Lucas was happy with Kershner on EMPIRE, as he offered him the director's job on RETURN. I'm pretty sure Kershner was offered EMPIRE because he was a past teacher of Lucas at UCLA. However, when Lucas tried to recruit Kershner for Empire, he told Kershner that he wanted him to direct because he made so many good films outside of Hollywood. Karnak predicts that there will be a Kershner box set from Imprint in 2024!! Also, even though he didn't direct any of the films, the writer Lawrence Kasdan went on to be a fine auteur (writer/director) for a decade or so.
I'm mostly a horror fan but have a few sci-fi and fantasy movies. My favorite sci-fi movies are the Star Wars movies. I love the original trilogy, the prequel trilogy is O.K.(except JaJar) and the last trilogy is passable. But thing is they messed up the stories. The beginning of The Book Of Boba Fett is the real beginning of episode VII. There's this thing about the Emperor that died in episode VI was really a clone but I don't remember how it continued. But I don't think that the novels were like what we got in these last movies. Anyway good discussion and cool video Heath!👉😄👈
TFA is entertaining but shallow, typical of JJ Abrams' cinematic output. TLJ is objectively bad storytelling even separated entirely from SW canon. TRoS I didn't even watch, and I never will.
Hi Heath, I am an original fan of the Star Wars films. I do think it's a commendable effort for you to go back and give the sequels a second chance, and see again, what the films were about. For me, however, I just can't bring myself to do so. I saw Force Awakens twice, in the original run, Last Jedi, I saw only once (a first for me), and I never bothered to see The Rise of Skywalker. I was that offended. I don't think I was as appalled by a film, since the Spielberg version of War of the Worlds. You hit all the salient points in the overall critique, about the weaknesses of the trilogy. However, I'd apply your critique, as the overall complete answer to why all 3 films are not good. I chose not to acknowledge their existence. If other fans do like them, that's cool too. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to their likes and dislikes. I think you've hit the nail no the head with the current state of the modern Disney corporation too in this and other discussions. I think I've argued in the recent past , for why you can / should have the ability to tell an ongoing , complex story, via many films and shows. In general I felt there was nothing inherently wrong with this (there should be some way to tell an epic , ongoing story.) But as we've gone on , and Disney keeps pumping out one show or film after another (with the Marvel stories and Star Wars stories) I now am more in your camp: have we reached a "jump the shark " moment ? Is too much, truly too much, and are these films and shows, just corporate swill, with no artistic side or merits ? I"m not sure even a 3 year break is enough. I honestly don't think anyone but George Lucas can really do these stories justice, as he had something personally at stake in writing the stories, something to say, and he put himself into them. I'll go you one better, in that I was 8 when I first saw Star Wars in 1977, so I have been there from the beginning..... but I am not only a fan of the original trilogy , but an unapologetic die hard fan of the prequel trilogy. All 6 felt like they were his projects, had a specific vision and reflected artistic intent. The new Disney era, feels disjointed and given all the directors, writers , etc..... the films and shows all don't have a consistent feel. It's interesting, as Lucas, may have been an auteur who also operated on a highly "commercial" level..... but all in the name of his personal vision. I don't get artistic or vision out of Disney.... just cashing in. The sequels, for me, feel like bad fan fiction, projected via a bad after school special lens. I felt like I was watching a train wreck the moment I started watching The Force Awakens. I was never a big JJ Abrahams fan , and this made me even less of one. "over rated" comes to mind. I remember many friends started off as Lost fans, and half way through, complaining (as many of us did) that it seemed like he would forget his cliff hangers / plot points / "puzzle box" story elements, and never bring anything to a conclusion. You had something start, and never get resolved. This fit right in, in a bad way, since Disney seemed to want to acknowledge the vocal fans who disliked the more detailed / explained elements of the prequels. Abrahams slap dash work fit right in, with the sequels which felt soooo disjointed. much like yourself, I've lost interest in the modern Super Hero comics..... for me, continuity is king and most important. How can I stay interested if back story can change from one year to another, on a whim for one new writer's stories. Similarly, Star Wars and Marvel , from Disney feels this way. Not only have I left super hero comics, but I cancelled Disney Plus. one last point or question : if as you have stated in the past, we can only "vote" with our wallets, what happens if something gets "voted down" by lack of sales by us, by not spending our money? will we have the corporation "right the ship" by telling the stories we want, the way we want ? will they finally stop mining one territory and give a new writer or director a chance to experiment ? If they don't actually ask our opinion , and there is no way to ask / advise specific points...... how do we get what we want ? how does someone new break in ? It seems the big corporations can be both babies , or reactive, instead of pro-active, and on the side of art. Case in point : pharmacies went from being "mom and pop" to being bought out by by larger and larger businesses..... the personal touch is gone, everything is turned into a Ford assembly plant, both in what we as consumers get, and how the employees are treated. A local pharmacy was bought out by a sleazy local business couple , who were then bought out by a regional pharmacy group, who were then bought out by 2 larger national conglomerates. The larger conglomerates don't treat employees or customers well, and my local store , was shut down as a low performer, ...... the large conglomerate doesn't analyze its own business principles as being part of the problem, it just looks at the sales, and basic info, with no real deep dive analysis. How can we get what we want, before Disney has bought everything, and just pulls the plug, as their "answer" to all the issues ? like with everyone, I have strong feelings about the topic. I also had many other points to discuss or ask.... I'll stop here. Again..... as always.... excellent topic !!! Thanks Heath !
I felt the Farce Awokens was passable. Nowhere approaching the originals or the EU, but I didnt find it offensive. Episode 8 is the worst thing I've ever seen. Becsuse of that, I still havent seen episode 9. So yeah, they are as bad as I remember. Let me rephrase: I only found one thing offensive in Farce Awokens. How they regressed Han's character development.
Everything Disney has done with Star Wars is crap. They had no plan. It was product constructed by hacks pretending to be story-tellers. Terrible Plots. Terrible dialogue. Terrible pacing. All the shows, movies, and assorted media are made by people who do not care except to destroy what has come before. There is nothing good that has come from new Lucasfilm.
Um…. TLJ has more in common with later Arthurian legend. Read the final parts of “The Once and Future King” and you will find the major inspiration for TLJ
You just made me realize, as simple as it may sound, that the Disney created storyline was an Evil Skywalker ultimately forfeited to a good Palpatine. And we lost one of our favorite original characters in each movie along the way. 😕 Now buy the lunchbox.
I hate D-0. Why does a scary Sith assassin have a cute little Pixar lamp wheel droid? And why does it talk? In the marketing, he just whistles. Really goes to show how rushed the production was when the marketing materials don’t match the movie.
yikes. going to have to unfollow my guy. Taste in movies is subjective but I can't follow someone who defends the trilogy in any way shape or form. It's embarrassing. Later
Force Awakens felt fine, well made, and could have been potential for a new jumping off story. My problem was that it did a lot of rehash and retread from earlier films. I would have forgiven it that rehash if it had went in a new and exciting direction. I liked Last Jedi more than Force Awakens.
Sorry I disagree they'll terrible. Disney destroyed the star wars franchise and continued until this day! I won't lie i did like Rogue one after that it went into the toilet! I no longer care about star wars and marvel. Sorry @cerealatmidnight had to suffer this traumatic experience! Lol 😅😅😅
No, I hated TFA and it's terrible writing and incredible amount of rehashed ideas and the fact that they made the accomplishments in the OT pointless. Kylo Ren has a tantrum, fails to do common sense early on that would've already the empires win straight away and he failed to beat people that barely have any experience with a light-saber. He's anything but cool. It's all embarrassing and I have no idea how anyone tolerates it.
The last time I tried to watch them, years ago now, I had the same wonder, were they really _that_ bad?, & I’m sorry I did waste my time, the overwhelming thing that I was reminded of is just how *boring* these films are, surprisingly tedious & a genuine _chore_ to try & get through, which in fairness to Disney, is something they’ve managed to instil in *all* of their attempts at Star Wars. So, at least they’re consistent.
First thing first I loved your video and agree with everything you said since I watched the Sequels the first time 3 months ago. I also agree with you that a lot of the post Endor novels weren’t the best especially the bantam era, but they had everything I wanted in Star Wars. Honestly when I saw the title of the video I was hoping it would be a positive outlook of the sequels because I wanted to see an opposite pov, instead I agreed with everything you said
“I’m sure there’s a reason” sums up this entire trilogy. We all assumed there was a reason behind everything and we were proved wrong every time. Force Awakens was a great movie. Maybe it copies a new hope but what it does new was near perfect in my opinion. The rest of the trilogy is complete crap.
A friend gave me the duplicate Blu-ray discs from his massive 4K set. I kept Episodes 1 - 6 and donated Episodes 7 - 9 to Goodwill, but even felt a slight sense of guilt for doing this, not wanting to contribute to anyone else seeing these terrible films. Basically, these movies tell the story of how Palpatine hijacks The Skywalker legacy, and that is wholly unacceptable and disgusting. The prequels had many problems, but at least they felt cohesive, told an interesting story, and for the most part FELT like Star Wars.
Palpatine learned to cheat death through Plagueis, he felt Anakin's light within already and planned for it as well as the prophecy. He cheated the prophecy which is realistic if the devil read revelation he wouldnt just follow the same plan
Disney didn't know what they weer doing from day one. How do you go into a trilogy with not over arching story map? Who does that? I can't stand Disney SW but hey...I still have the original trilogy. That's where my fandom begins & ends.
I titled the video "Were We Wrong About The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy" to invite the viewer into a conversation and to prepare them for an analytical look at these movies. I thought that--at the least--the audience would know I had things to say and click to hear them.
Episode IX also feels rushed because they originally had Colin Trevorrow to write and direct, but they ended up letting him go from the project and completely rewrote his script in a limited amount of time. The script, called Duel of the Fates, is online and there’s also lots of concept art for it. It is flawed but I would’ve preferred it. Leia’s in it a lot though so that probably also had something to do with why they didn’t go with it. They couldn’t have done it without Carrie Fisher.
When it comes to TLJ, everyone says it's weird that Luke almost killed Ben but wouldn't kill his father, but everyone forgets that he almost killed Vader when Vader said he'd just turn Leia to the dark side instead and Sidious had to stop him. Luke not killing Ben in the end shows growth.
You hit on how I view Star Wars. Although I too read a lot of the novels and such back in the day, I've become more and more convinced that SW is not a sandbox universe where infinite stories can be told, but is about the rise, fall, and redemption (through his son) of Anakin. It was told in 6 movies (preferably 3). The real films meant us to believe in RotJ that the Empire was permanently defeated and the Sith destroyed forever (bringing balance to the force). So, I didn't even want to see these movies, but I did when they hit Netflix on disc. I'd like to live with my head canon of "they lived happily ever after," but I feel like that is head-in-the-sand. So, Disney has permanently tainted my love of SW to the point if someone asks me if I'm a Star Wars fan I now say "not really" or "sort of" (on a good day). So, I felt compelled to see these so I could be informed, but I never intend to rewatch them and not only what they did, but the very existence of the movies offends me.
You're completely wrong about Last Jedi. Finn becomes a Resistance hero instead of only a stormtrooper run away who cares only for Rey & not the cause of the resistance. Poe learns to be humble and not just run in guns blazing every situation. You either didn't pay attention or are being unfair. Luke said he saw a vision about everything Kylo would do and it would cost him everything he loved (including Han) so for ONE SECOND he wanted to save it all if he already KNEW it was going to happen. Like he KNEW Vader had good in him, he knew Kylo didn't. Luke will do anything to save family but what about when family threatens family? It's a great idea and a great movie
Finn completed that arc by the end of The Force Awakens. His Last Jedi arc is mostly busy work to give him something to do. Same with Poe. I'm glad you enjoy the movie, but let's not act like opinions are facts, please. I'm glad you enjoy it.
I was hoping for an exciting editorial but this sadly wasn’t it. I think that’s a HUGE problem with RUclips creators these days is that their views bleed into one another, regurgitating the same talking points over and over again. This video seemed as necessary to make as “Solo”. We all get it. We’ve heard the same criticisms when these films were released. There’s literally hundreds of videos saying the same exact thing. I miss when RUclips creators had contrarian views. Now I feel like hundreds of RUclipsrs are making the same exact videos.
Bud, I question how much of the video you actually watched. This video was too harsh for the fans of the trilogy and too kind for the haters. In short, it's a unique take.
Well, it does have proper thematic and character development. Which sometimes can slow plot right down. Ahsoka also does the same... but without much deep developments, in contrast.@@CerealAtMidnight
They were bad films. They clearly didn't have a plan, the story was all over the place and the characters were largely unlikeable. They didn't honour the legacy of the original films. The Force Awakens is the best of them all... but it's still not great, and from The Last Jedi onwards the films are just a travesty of horrendous storytelling.
I really enjoyed Rogue One. Out of all the recent movies, it's easily the best one. I liked The Force Awakens. However, I haven't seen Solo and The Rise of Skywalker. I have absolutely no interest in watching The Last jedi. Of course, I'm only talking about the main movies and not the animated series, The Mandalorian, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan Kenobi, The Clone Wars, Andor, or the Book of Boba Fett. The reason why most of the recent Star Wars movies have lost their soul is mostly because of Kathleen Kennedy. She manipulated George Lucas in order to give her complete control of Lucasfilm. She destroyed the franchise by scraping his ideas. She failed to take responsibility for her mistakes by blaming the fans for hating the recent films. It's really unfortunate to see a legendary franchise like Star Wars get treated like this. The people who are in charge have no idea what they are doing because they don't care. They have no respect for the work that George Lucas had put into the older films and for the legacy that he built. Aside from Rogue One, most of the recent movies are mere cash grabs. Thanks, Heath! As always, I really appreciate the hard work! Keep it up! God bless and stay safe!
100% agree with your takes here sir. I try to forget about these movies, and I mostly do. It's only recently with the Mandalorian and Ahsoka series starting to edge closer to the First Order, they start to come back to me. I hope we get some kind of miracle (like alternate timelines or something) that rewrites this terrible history.
Honestly if we could by some miracle just get an animated adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy, I’d be ok with that. Not gonna happen I’m sure, but that would be nice. Those are the true sequels anyway.
I absolutely loved The Force Awakens when it came out. Saw it at least 7x at the theater. I felt that JJ brought back the magic in this first film. It’s a shame the original actors never had a scene with all 3 together. I also wish there had been an overall plan. Rian Johnson basically undid everything JJ had done in the first film, and then JJ had to undo what Rian had done in the second. So many lost opportunities
The Force Awakens is also my favorite of the sequel trilogy. Yeah it's kinda derivative in many ways, but after the prequels were generally seen as a disappointment, maybe that was kind of what we needed at that time (at least to some extent). And I felt like it set up really great POTENTIAL going forward, so I left the film really excited and hopeful for the rest of the trilogy. However, 8 and 9 did not live up to that potential. The Last Jedi did throw things off-track, in my opinion, but at least Johnson was trying to do something a bit different and unique, it just didn't all work super well and some things fell flat. I felt that Rise of Skywalker, however, was an absolutely TERRIBLE attempt to "fix" those problems from Last Jedi and I found it to be a big mess (though still entertaining, and I was surprised that C-3PO ended up being the best part for me).
What's wrong with the sequels? The fans! They prevent Disney from improving on the franchise and try to change things and move forward Like everybody, i have a lot to say, but long story short, i accept them for what they are, warts and all You're a couragous man for making a video about the sequels
Hey Heath. I too am a HUGE Han Solo fan and it crushed me when they killed him off in The Force Awakens. Episodes 8 & 9 are just f’n awful. Not a fan of BB-8…I really agree when Lucas sold to Disney Star Wars lost integrity in movie storytelling & character development. I would have completely been satisfied if they ended it with Episode 6. I truly believe they should have used Jon Favereau & Dave Filoni to direct those films.
I do feel like I'm in a alternate timeline where people think the prequel trilogy are a masterpiece, as a fan who has been there since the beginning, seeing how much Obi seem to be so close to Lukes father, it's like they were best friends or brothers, Obi Wan would talk about when he first saw Anakin he was already a great pilot, then you watch episode 1 he tells Qui Gon "don't tell me you picked up another pathetic life form" then in Return of the Jedi Obi Wan says I took it upon himself to train Anakin, he thought he could train him as well as Yoda trained Obi Wan...Which is a lie because he was forced into...Qui Gon took it upon himself not Obi Wan...Obi Wan told Qui Gon "why can't you see what the jedi counsel sees?" he was against training the boy, as Qui Gon dying wish saying to Obi Wan you must train the boy...He is the chosen one...Which another thing in Return of the Jedi it was a beautiful moment between a father and son...Then George shoe horns a Christ like story for Anakin who by the way kills younglings... Now we are suppose to see him being this figure fulfilling a long prophecy? Sorry I personally hate that story it makes a beautiful moment in return of the Jedi messy, then you have Yoda not be the character he was in the OG trilogy, you have Leia remembering her mother but not Luke...Since Revenge of the Sith came out this line made no sense...Obi Wan show fixed this, that show also filled a plot hole with Obi and Vader, now the prequels have so many other issues be it terrible dialog or cgi yet people are saying these films age beautifully, instead of complaining about it I would rather celebrate the people who enjoy the films because it's their Star Wars, lets do the same for people who enjoy the sequel trilogy which in my honest opinion TFA and TLJ is already a masterpiece.
This pretty much sums up my opinions of the sequel trilogy. I thought The Force Awakens was great the first time I watched it, but the second watching revealed things that started to bug me. At the time, I brushed those doubts off, assuming that the second and third movie would answer and resolve everything. Instead, with each movie, I liked them less and retroactively liked the previous one(s) less. If you want to keep an aging franchise going, introducing new main characters is perfectly legitimate but you also need the audience to connect with those new characters. And they didn't even really try to do that.
If they weren't going to let George lucas write the new movies then disney should have gone with the thrawn trilogy into dark empire. If my recollection of old interviews I read/had are correct then Return of the jedi was compressed episodes 6-9 as originally planned. At the time lucas never saw himself doing all 9 episodes and wanted to do the prequels over the last three so he compressed the last arc. If it wasn't for a flood I'd still be reading the old expanded universe books. For me the disney movies are poorly written, highly funded, bad fan fiction to recoup the money spent to get the rights. And don't get me started on rogue one, that pile just ignores the original radio dramas.
It seems like Disney deliberately ignored 20 years of Expanded Universe just to do their own thing, instead of using it to inform their movies. We had great Thrawn stories from Timothy Zahn, but rather than acknowledge them, Disney ignored them and decided to call 20 years of second-tier continuity "legends." Then they decided they liked some of what he did and he had to start over from scratch, bringing Thrawn back in a new series of "canon" novels that are completely separate and different from the novels he wrote in the 1990s that actually kicked off the Expanded Universe. Messy stuff. But that's Disney for you. It would be like Paul Dini creating Harley Quinn, DC liking what he had done, but saying "We like what you created, but this is our character now, so start over using these guidelines."
The Thrawn trilogy wouldn’t make sense taking place 30 years after the OT, the actors are too old. They’d have to recast if they went in that direction.
I also get the feeling that there was no story arc set out for the trilogy when production started... at least the main plot points. The 2nd and 3rd movies just felt like sloppy writing. Too much happens in the 3rd movie and it's too long. Some of what happens in the 3rd movie perhaps should have gone into the 2nd. It was so poorly planned out for such an important franchise.😢 Edit: I guess I should have watched the last half of your video before commenting. I just parroted what you said😅
I respect the effort but can't go on that journey again! Love your channel though!
To me they were neither very enjoyable or nuanced, only the visuals are where they are consistent.
Disney forgot the basic rule of a trilogy: There's a beginning, a middle and an end....plus they lost 50% of their audience by the end of ep 9.
But the new trilogy has a beginning, middle and end.
they lost 50% at Last Jedi. Train went of the tracks with that one.
The sequels made 4 billion dollars and are the highest grossing movies of the Star Wars franchise. They were massively successful.
I think we all forget the basic rule of business. When the headline says it made a billion dollars the movie studio only gets about 55% of that. Then you have to add in marketing and advertising costs. If you spend $400 million dollars to make and market the movie you're going to need to make 800 million at the box office just break even. At least this is what I've been told. I think the truth lies somewhere in between.
@windfire05 financially successful but a failure in the eyes of the fans.
This trilogy might have been great if Kathleen Kennedy hadn’t torn up the agreement she had with George Lucas. The way Han was needlessly killed off and what Luke became was so disrespectful. The ‘modern speak’ as you mentioned, just feels jarring.
You are 100% right with how messy this trilogy is. I originally didn’t like the prequels but they have grown on me for the simple reason is that Lucas is quality, had a real vision and gave us two genuine trilogies from the outset. This is so not the case here and shows the direction that Disney wanted to go in.
I hate what Disney has done to Star Wars! Example everyone seems to survive a lightsaber strike, I remember when a lightsaber duel meant something!
I hear you man!
The Last Jedi gave Luke Skywalker a crisis of faith OFF SCREEN?!?!? As Mark Hamill said, the character Rian Johnson wrote wasn’t Luke - how in the heck did they let this script through?
The level of incompetence here is just beyond the pale. Saying the trilogy is “messy” is an understatement.
Lucas made 3 great movies with the original trilogy. I can't stand that Lucas has Anakin kill the children in Revenge of the Sith. Vader has no redemption after killing children. So for me, the prequels don't exist.
We were right as rain. The sequel trilogy were soul-less, cash-grab, abortion-of-franchise SW movies, especially compared to the Lucas movies, most especially compared to the original trilogy. These empty vessels SW movies are simply atrocious, especially the last 2.
No, they’re bad movies
Did you watch the video?
Lots of comments here from people who haven't watched and have no idea what I think or have to say about the movies. That's RUclips for ya!
Bruh 🤣🤣. Watch the damn video
Lmao dude , I was actually stoked when I found out we were getting more Star Wars Movies. I LOVE the original movies btw cause those of the ones that made me become a fan in the first place.
@@CerealAtMidnightgee, you assume that he assumed you like the movies now. He’s just saying “no, I’ll save you the time. They’re just bad movies.” No amount of viewing or re-viewing will make the movies good.
I am about to watch this video and I really hope it ends up with you realizing that they are terrible. I have tried and tried and tried to like these films. Let’s see…
Edit: yup. Force Awakens feels decent but then you realize it goes nowhere and the trilogy ends up leaving you feeling empty.
Actually they could never return to the glory days of the first trilogy. Those three films will always be the greatest of Star Wars. You just can't go back.
Lol, I did this after those train wrecks you call the prequel trilogy subverted everyone's expectations and practically destroyed Star Wars.😂
It seriously pains me to think of these movies, and the waste of talent and opportunity they had to continue the story. I read the expanded universe too and yeah theres so many things they could have done but they couldnt and still wont let go of their agenda. Thats the most important thing to them. Its why Rey is now a Skywalker. In her next movie they will call her Master Skywalker. The force is still female. Dont forget. She'll reform the order, something Luke did in the books and they should have focused on in these movies. Or it should have already been re-established. They had 30 years. In my version of The Last Jedi, Rey goes with Kylo Ren willingly to see Snoke and maybe she turns to the darkside and thats what the Resistance thinks and thats the cliffhanger we are left with. In "rise of skywalker" Luke has no choice but to come back and confront his old student and Snoke and with help of Rey's old campanions bring her back to the light. And what if Kylo had returned to the light too. Kylo and Rey didnt make a bad couple lol. Anyway, theres so much. And it hurts. These movies are evil and vomit on everything that is star wars and everything that could've been...
Yeah, pretty much on the same page, but I do think Rise of Skywalker was significantly worse than the other two, not being just bad Star Wars, but a bad film (how many fake outs of characters appearing to die, but not, can you fit in one movie?) It was all recoverable until that point. Force Awakens was fun at the time, but less so now that we know it wasn't really setting up anything. I thought Last Jedi was the best of the three (certainly not without flaws itself) and Johnson a far better director than Abrams, but it has no relation to what came before or after. Who would have thought we'd wish we had the work of the Jurassic World guy.
Recently, I watched the sequel trilogy. I focus on Rey's and Ben Solo characters. I found a coherent narrative. The story is about them. It's no longer Luke, Leia, and Han story. I enjoyed very much.
Disney raided Star Wars like a hoard of locusts and left an empty husk of forgettable films.
the law of diminishing returns is strong with these...
Real question: when is the law of diminishing returns not in effect? I feel like so many of these companies are tarnishing classics by continuing to mine them for profits. It fails ten times for every one time it succeeds.
@@CerealAtMidnight
They haven’t the imagination to write anything new anymore and the oversized budgets meaning they won’t take risks on new concepts, only safe bets on previously successful IPs.
I believe that's true. Everything now is an echo of what was once original and fresh. Ghostbusters, Transformers, Star Wars, all these Marvel movies, Warner's continued attempt to keep The Wizarding World alive long after the story was told, just about everything we're being fed is a distant echo of something that first made a splash years ago.
Never watched the sequels before, and after your review, I think I never will.
Full disclosure, I can’t even watch your video. Yes they are that bad.
I loved Force Awakens initially but after a few viewings, it’s just so-so. It has some great moments still. Han Solo, worst on screen death ever. Last Jedi, I’m not even going to talk about it and I never saw Rise. Of all the Disney Star Wars movies, Rouge One is amazing and honestly, I liked Solo outside of some bad dialogue.
I have to admit.. the excitement in the theater when Kylo Ren stopped the blaster bolt was awesome!
I have friends that were HUGE Star Wars fans and they hate Episodes 7-9. Disney is a freaking cancer now and all they want to do is kill our childhood movies. They are the dark side. I tell my kids, just watch the original trilogy. That’s it.
They’re like the hot chick who, while maintaining a shred of good looks, is now the syphilitic hotbed you really don’t want to engage with anymore if you’re smart.
The first major problem was selling Star Wars to the Evil empire. 2nd was dumping all the EU outta cannon. I really liked Force Awakens, saw 3 times in theater, and liked parts of the other 2. I think your idea of these being products to sell instead of stories to tell is right on point. Shame really. Love the books as well. Such a waste
Agreed. Somebody's gonna say "but all movies are products!" And they're right, but the product has to have a value and a purpose, otherwise it's hollow, like an NFT or a widget. And Star Wars was never just a widget before Disney bough them.
Worst movies. Post modern sludge
It just sucks that they never had a plan or story treatment for all 3 movies to begin with. George had the story for the original trilogy planned out and split it into three chapters. It should've been Abrams and Kasdan from the beginning to plot out all three films to keep the consistency.
Actually, he didn’t have it fully planned out. He had a basic outline, but things changed all the time. Vader wasn’t supposed to be Luke’s father, for example.
It's a myth that Lucas had it all planned out. Star Wars was going to be a one and done movie. It was a surprise mega hit and Lucas wasn't planning for a sequel. He had to hire other writers to come up with Empire.
That’s not true, they did have a plan. JJ Abrams changed the plan and then lied to the press and told the press there was no plan. There was a plan, JJ didn’t like it and altered it.
@@ajzeg01Exactly! Luke was "hiden from his father",...on his father's home planet, at his grandmother's house, without even changing his last name! That cannot have been the part of any "plan"!
They had an overview but not 100% planned out ,otherwise we wouldn't have had the Luke and Leia incest French kiss.
Even with a clean state of mind on these movies i cannot bare myself to watch them again. The way they handle the story, the characters and their relationships. How they evolve, like you said, Kylo was cool on the first movie but seen him defeated at the end of ep1 by someone who has no knowledge on the force or light saber fighting, it would be like Luke defeating Darth Vader on Ep4, no way that could happen and you don't want to see that happen anyways!. You want the hero to struggle, to find its way on the vast galaxy and arrive to an ending where he/she has matured and it is on pair, or better, that its nemesis. Small things like that completely ruined this new trilogy. The last installment had tons of fan service but even with all that, still feels mediocre. My biggest disappointment was when Han died. We could not watch the movie in theaters as our first daughter was too young and we had no one to babysit, so i managed to avoid any spoilers of the movie all the way until it was released on disc; and i was very excited to watch it but then when Han died, my jaw dropped to the floor, I could not believe it. I simply could not re-watch these movies, ever.
ditto.
Keith
Why didn’t you mention Kathleen Kennedy? She was given the keys to the kingdom and quite frankly failed. I know movies are a collaborative effort but she is at the head and should take the blame in my opinion
I did when discussing how The Force Awakens was conceived not by George Lucas or even just by J.J. Abrams, but also by Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy. Executives are not creators, and that's why so much of what we're seeing today feels hollow. The directors are often puppets of a corporate regime who's really pulling the strings, demanding plot devices, and messing things up.
They might be a slightly below average set of movies on their own. It was three films where 2 of them tried to erase and undo things that was done in the preceeding film. Like you siad, there was no well thought out plan to guide them through the trilogy. We can look back at the prequel trilogy and most assuredly say we were wrong from our initial takes. Those weren't as bad as everyone cried. This trilogy? No we weren't wrong. They are still bad.
Hated the prequels then. Hate them even more now. Lucas ruined everything with those awful movies. The sequels were a waste of time. Only the originals are worth watching.
I think you’re spot on about the sequels, Heath. I did enjoy all the films, especially THE FORCE AWAKENS, because it was essentially a carbon copy of the original STAR WARS in a lot of ways. Episodes 7-9 were all serviceable popcorn entertainment, but as a die hard Star Wars fan since the 70’s, “serviceable” is not good enough for this Star Wars franchise. We were so spoiled with how great the original trilogy was that the expectations for the prequels and sequels were definitely too unrealistic. I think the closest that we’ve come to capturing the magic of the original trilogy was the final episode of Season 2 of The Mandalorian.
After watching the Force Awakens I haven't seen the other two, too painful.
The headcanon is the Canon that matters. Heath you are a true genius I have never heard that said and it is pure gold.
Everyone always brings up Luke refusing to kill Vader, but they always forget that that moment happened after he cut him arm off and held him at the end of his lightsaber. Luke lost control, regained it, and did the right thing. The same thing happened with Ben, only Ben didn’t see it that way and became the very thing Luke feared.
I think the writing ignores the growth Luke experienced at the end of Return of the Jedi. Clearly Rian Johnson disagrees, and so do you, but it's not like the argument comes out of nowhere. Luke already faced that temptation, confronted it, and moved past it. Having him do it again feels like going backwards to me.
But that part of his character was something he gave in favour of patience and wisdom. His hotheadedness he inherited from his dad was something he moved past. Not something he would still have in him to the point where he nearly kills his student nephew thirty years later. I mean, come on.🤦🏻♂️
@@CerealAtMidnightI think part of the problem is how the scene was put together. Luke didn’t just sense darkness in Ben, he had a vision of the future where he saw Kylo Ren and what would happen. If we actually saw that vision, that would’ve been better. They could do something like Kylo Ren seeing Luke and attacking him with his lightsaber, Luke pulling out his lightsaber in self-defence, then cutting back to the real world with his lightsaber ignited over Ben. I think that would fix a lot of people’s problems with that scene, I can picture it in my head. It would’ve just made it a misunderstanding, but Luke’s feelings of guilt would still be there, his character arc of confronting his past guilt and becoming the hero the galaxy needs him to be would still work. I think the scene in the movie still works, I understand why he would have such a strong reaction to seeing a vision like that, we know from The Empire Strikes Back that Luke doesn’t do well with visions, but actually showing it would’ve gone a long way.
@@ajzeg01No that’s a false equivalence because Luke contemplates killing his nephew in his sleep because he had dark dreams for crying out loud!
Solid video. I slightly disagree, as I didn't like THE FORCE AWAKENS, and I thought the next two films were worse. I'm not a huge fan of J.J. Abrams. Many of his projects start out okay (or bad) and then go off the cliff. My favorite thing from Abrams was FRINGE, but the last season is the weakest. Rian Johnson is more hit and miss, for me, but his misses (THE LAST JEDI and GLASS ONION) are way deeper than his hits.
You said that Lucas did not employ auteurs. Hmmmm, I don't agree. Irvin Kershner was a pretty solid auteur director for the first 15 years of his career. He was a favorite of Pauline Kael. He veered off into more commercial fare, and then made more fantastic fare after EMPIRE. Also, Richard Marquand was a very promising directors of romantic thrillers prior to his early death.
VERY interested in what you think of the prequel trilogy. Also, I greatly prefer ROGUE ONE and to a lesser degree, SOLO, to the sequel trilogy, and would be interested in what you thought of those. There are many gaps in my reading, but Dark Horse and Marvel have done a lot more interesting work with Lucas' Star Wars characters and have invented more compelling new ones, such as Doctor Aphra.
I'm really interested in your thoughts on Irvin Kershner as an auteur. Do you think that's why Empire is the most successful of the 9 films? I've always heard that Lucas shadow-directed that movie because Kersh was taking so long on every little detail, but those little details are a lot of what I love about Empire (like R2-D2 on his tip-toes peering into the window of Yoda's hut on Dagobah). Honestly, I've never thought of Kershner as an auteur, but I like the notion.
@@CerealAtMidnight I don't think of Kershner as a pantheon auteur such as Hitchock, Ford, or Welles; he's more like a second tier Sidney Lumet. His first series of feature films are all interesting to great: THE HOODLUM PRIEST, THE LUCK OF GINGER COFFEY, A FINE MADNESS, THE FLIM FLAM MAN, LOVING, and UP THE SANDBOX. All made outside of Hollywood. He was consistently championed by Pauline Kael, who praised EMPIRE. (I suspect becuse of Kershner's involvement.) He was making more Hollywood type fare (SPYS, EYES OF LAURA MARS) before doing EMPIRE. I think Lucas was happy with Kershner on EMPIRE, as he offered him the director's job on RETURN.
I'm pretty sure Kershner was offered EMPIRE because he was a past teacher of Lucas at UCLA. However, when Lucas tried to recruit Kershner for Empire, he told Kershner that he wanted him to direct because he made so many good films outside of Hollywood. Karnak predicts that there will be a Kershner box set from Imprint in 2024!!
Also, even though he didn't direct any of the films, the writer Lawrence Kasdan went on to be a fine auteur (writer/director) for a decade or so.
Kids, this is why you don't take drugs. You'll think the sequel trilogy is good.
I'm mostly a horror fan but have a few sci-fi and fantasy movies. My favorite sci-fi movies are the Star Wars movies. I love the original trilogy, the prequel trilogy is O.K.(except JaJar) and the last trilogy is passable. But thing is they messed up the stories. The beginning of The Book Of Boba Fett is the real beginning of episode VII. There's this thing about the Emperor that died in episode VI was really a clone but I don't remember how it continued. But I don't think that the novels were like what we got in these last movies. Anyway good discussion and cool video Heath!👉😄👈
TFA is entertaining but shallow, typical of JJ Abrams' cinematic output. TLJ is objectively bad storytelling even separated entirely from SW canon. TRoS I didn't even watch, and I never will.
The answer is no...
If anything, it deserves even more scrutiny...
This video is that scrutiny.
These 3 movies weren’t planned out. Really liked VII, the other 2 were forgettable to me. They made me appreciate the pre-quels.
Prequels were awful. Nothing will change that.
I’d love too see a video of your thoughts of “roge one” and “solo” a Star Wars story 👍
Hi Heath Kino lorber have released Hyenas 1992. A Senegalese comedy film about overkill of consumer culture. I'm picking this up. Cheers Stuart.
These movies… The Last Jedi in particular completely shattered over 40 years of fandom. They are a disgrace and it really disgusts me to this day.
Hi Heath, I am an original fan of the Star Wars films. I do think it's a commendable effort for you to go back and give the sequels a second chance, and see again, what the films were about. For me, however, I just can't bring myself to do so. I saw Force Awakens twice, in the original run, Last Jedi, I saw only once (a first for me), and I never bothered to see The Rise of Skywalker. I was that offended. I don't think I was as appalled by a film, since the Spielberg version of War of the Worlds. You hit all the salient points in the overall critique, about the weaknesses of the trilogy. However, I'd apply your critique, as the overall complete answer to why all 3 films are not good. I chose not to acknowledge their existence. If other fans do like them, that's cool too. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to their likes and dislikes.
I think you've hit the nail no the head with the current state of the modern Disney corporation too in this and other discussions. I think I've argued in the recent past , for why you can / should have the ability to tell an ongoing , complex story, via many films and shows. In general I felt there was nothing inherently wrong with this (there should be some way to tell an epic , ongoing story.) But as we've gone on , and Disney keeps pumping out one show or film after another (with the Marvel stories and Star Wars stories) I now am more in your camp: have we reached a "jump the shark " moment ? Is too much, truly too much, and are these films and shows, just corporate swill, with no artistic side or merits ? I"m not sure even a 3 year break is enough. I honestly don't think anyone but George Lucas can really do these stories justice, as he had something personally at stake in writing the stories, something to say, and he put himself into them.
I'll go you one better, in that I was 8 when I first saw Star Wars in 1977, so I have been there from the beginning..... but I am not only a fan of the original trilogy , but an unapologetic die hard fan of the prequel trilogy. All 6 felt like they were his projects, had a specific vision and reflected artistic intent. The new Disney era, feels disjointed and given all the directors, writers , etc..... the films and shows all don't have a consistent feel. It's interesting, as Lucas, may have been an auteur who also operated on a highly "commercial" level..... but all in the name of his personal vision. I don't get artistic or vision out of Disney.... just cashing in. The sequels, for me, feel like bad fan fiction, projected via a bad after school special lens. I felt like I was watching a train wreck the moment I started watching The Force Awakens. I was never a big JJ Abrahams fan , and this made me even less of one. "over rated" comes to mind. I remember many friends started off as Lost fans, and half way through, complaining (as many of us did) that it seemed like he would forget his cliff hangers / plot points / "puzzle box" story elements, and never bring anything to a conclusion. You had something start, and never get resolved. This fit right in, in a bad way, since Disney seemed to want to acknowledge the vocal fans who disliked the more detailed / explained elements of the prequels. Abrahams slap dash work fit right in, with the sequels which felt soooo disjointed.
much like yourself, I've lost interest in the modern Super Hero comics..... for me, continuity is king and most important. How can I stay interested if back story can change from one year to another, on a whim for one new writer's stories. Similarly, Star Wars and Marvel , from Disney feels this way. Not only have I left super hero comics, but I cancelled Disney Plus.
one last point or question : if as you have stated in the past, we can only "vote" with our wallets, what happens if something gets "voted down" by lack of sales by us, by not spending our money? will we have the corporation "right the ship" by telling the stories we want, the way we want ? will they finally stop mining one territory and give a new writer or director a chance to experiment ? If they don't actually ask our opinion , and there is no way to ask / advise specific points...... how do we get what we want ? how does someone new break in ? It seems the big corporations can be both babies , or reactive, instead of pro-active, and on the side of art. Case in point : pharmacies went from being "mom and pop" to being bought out by by larger and larger businesses..... the personal touch is gone, everything is turned into a Ford assembly plant, both in what we as consumers get, and how the employees are treated. A local pharmacy was bought out by a sleazy local business couple , who were then bought out by a regional pharmacy group, who were then bought out by 2 larger national conglomerates. The larger conglomerates don't treat employees or customers well, and my local store , was shut down as a low performer, ...... the large conglomerate doesn't analyze its own business principles as being part of the problem, it just looks at the sales, and basic info, with no real deep dive analysis. How can we get what we want, before Disney has bought everything, and just pulls the plug, as their "answer" to all the issues ?
like with everyone, I have strong feelings about the topic. I also had many other points to discuss or ask.... I'll stop here. Again..... as always.... excellent topic !!! Thanks Heath !
I felt the Farce Awokens was passable. Nowhere approaching the originals or the EU, but I didnt find it offensive.
Episode 8 is the worst thing I've ever seen. Becsuse of that, I still havent seen episode 9.
So yeah, they are as bad as I remember.
Let me rephrase: I only found one thing offensive in Farce Awokens. How they regressed Han's character development.
Everything Disney has done with Star Wars is crap. They had no plan. It was product constructed by hacks pretending to be story-tellers. Terrible Plots. Terrible dialogue. Terrible pacing. All the shows, movies, and assorted media are made by people who do not care except to destroy what has come before. There is nothing good that has come from new Lucasfilm.
Um…. TLJ has more in common with later Arthurian legend. Read the final parts of “The Once and Future King” and you will find the major inspiration for TLJ
You just made me realize, as simple as it may sound, that the Disney created storyline was an Evil Skywalker ultimately forfeited to a good Palpatine. And we lost one of our favorite original characters in each movie along the way. 😕 Now buy the lunchbox.
And that is why I prefer the 6 films and the Expanded Universe. From Dawn of the Jedi all the way to the Legacy comics.
Were We Wrong About The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy? HELL YEAH ! WE ALL THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE GOOD ! DUH !
I hate D-0. Why does a scary Sith assassin have a cute little Pixar lamp wheel droid? And why does it talk? In the marketing, he just whistles. Really goes to show how rushed the production was when the marketing materials don’t match the movie.
yikes. going to have to unfollow my guy. Taste in movies is subjective but I can't follow someone who defends the trilogy in any way shape or form. It's embarrassing. Later
Force Awakens felt fine, well made, and could have been potential for a new jumping off story. My problem was that it did a lot of rehash and retread from earlier films. I would have forgiven it that rehash if it had went in a new and exciting direction. I liked Last Jedi more than Force Awakens.
Sorry I disagree they'll terrible. Disney destroyed the star wars franchise and continued until this day! I won't lie i did like Rogue one after that it went into the toilet! I no longer care about star wars and marvel. Sorry @cerealatmidnight had to suffer this traumatic experience! Lol 😅😅😅
No, I hated TFA and it's terrible writing and incredible amount of rehashed ideas and the fact that they made the accomplishments in the OT pointless. Kylo Ren has a tantrum, fails to do common sense early on that would've already the empires win straight away and he failed to beat people that barely have any experience with a light-saber. He's anything but cool. It's all embarrassing and I have no idea how anyone tolerates it.
The last time I tried to watch them, years ago now, I had the same wonder, were they really _that_ bad?, & I’m sorry I did waste my time, the overwhelming thing that I was reminded of is just how *boring* these films are, surprisingly tedious & a genuine _chore_ to try & get through, which in fairness to Disney, is something they’ve managed to instil in *all* of their attempts at Star Wars. So, at least they’re consistent.
First thing first I loved your video and agree with everything you said since I watched the Sequels the first time 3 months ago.
I also agree with you that a lot of the post Endor novels weren’t the best especially the bantam era, but they had everything I wanted in Star Wars.
Honestly when I saw the title of the video I was hoping it would be a positive outlook of the sequels because I wanted to see an opposite pov, instead I agreed with everything you said
It is all true what you said about episode 8. I hate this movie so much.
“I’m sure there’s a reason” sums up this entire trilogy. We all assumed there was a reason behind everything and we were proved wrong every time. Force Awakens was a great movie. Maybe it copies a new hope but what it does new was near perfect in my opinion. The rest of the trilogy is complete crap.
She didn’t he didn’t teach her anything that’s the problem if they had shown Luke Elise Trainng Ray is something but they didn’t
A friend gave me the duplicate Blu-ray discs from his massive 4K set. I kept Episodes 1 - 6 and donated Episodes 7 - 9 to Goodwill, but even felt a slight sense of guilt for doing this, not wanting to contribute to anyone else seeing these terrible films. Basically, these movies tell the story of how Palpatine hijacks The Skywalker legacy, and that is wholly unacceptable and disgusting. The prequels had many problems, but at least they felt cohesive, told an interesting story, and for the most part FELT like Star Wars.
Palpatine learned to cheat death through Plagueis, he felt Anakin's light within already and planned for it as well as the prophecy. He cheated the prophecy which is realistic if the devil read revelation he wouldnt just follow the same plan
First one was pretty good then just got worse. Wasted Snoke, wasted Phasma, wasted Han, Luke and Leia reunion.
Every generation will love the Star Wars they grew up on. hat means these will be a generations favorite Star Wars trilogy. I'm fine with that.
Disney didn't know what they weer doing from day one. How do you go into a trilogy with not over arching story map? Who does that? I can't stand Disney SW but hey...I still have the original trilogy. That's where my fandom begins & ends.
No we were not.
I titled the video "Were We Wrong About The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy" to invite the viewer into a conversation and to prepare them for an analytical look at these movies. I thought that--at the least--the audience would know I had things to say and click to hear them.
With Ep9, from the mention of Palpatine in the crawl, it really felt like they just gave up
See i hated the sequels from episode 7 forward, i never got behind the hype i hated the atmosphere of the cast and i hated kylo ren.
Episode IX also feels rushed because they originally had Colin Trevorrow to write and direct, but they ended up letting him go from the project and completely rewrote his script in a limited amount of time. The script, called Duel of the Fates, is online and there’s also lots of concept art for it. It is flawed but I would’ve preferred it. Leia’s in it a lot though so that probably also had something to do with why they didn’t go with it. They couldn’t have done it without Carrie Fisher.
Sorry but Adam Driver looks like hes holding in a wee all the way through. They are not great.
When it comes to TLJ, everyone says it's weird that Luke almost killed Ben but wouldn't kill his father, but everyone forgets that he almost killed Vader when Vader said he'd just turn Leia to the dark side instead and Sidious had to stop him. Luke not killing Ben in the end shows growth.
LOTS of stuff here I hadn't thought about, for better and worse. Great video 10/10 fricheks
ok, wo when is The Sequel Trilogy going to get officially retconned?
Not a fan of the last 3 movies. I really enjoyed Revenge of the Sith though.
You hit on how I view Star Wars. Although I too read a lot of the novels and such back in the day, I've become more and more convinced that SW is not a sandbox universe where infinite stories can be told, but is about the rise, fall, and redemption (through his son) of Anakin. It was told in 6 movies (preferably 3). The real films meant us to believe in RotJ that the Empire was permanently defeated and the Sith destroyed forever (bringing balance to the force). So, I didn't even want to see these movies, but I did when they hit Netflix on disc. I'd like to live with my head canon of "they lived happily ever after," but I feel like that is head-in-the-sand. So, Disney has permanently tainted my love of SW to the point if someone asks me if I'm a Star Wars fan I now say "not really" or "sort of" (on a good day). So, I felt compelled to see these so I could be informed, but I never intend to rewatch them and not only what they did, but the very existence of the movies offends me.
GEORGE LUCAS, "There is no episode 7."
There are only 6 Star Wars films. and a bunch semi related garbage.
The force awakens is genuinely a terrible movie
You're completely wrong about Last Jedi. Finn becomes a Resistance hero instead of only a stormtrooper run away who cares only for Rey & not the cause of the resistance. Poe learns to be humble and not just run in guns blazing every situation. You either didn't pay attention or are being unfair. Luke said he saw a vision about everything Kylo would do and it would cost him everything he loved (including Han) so for ONE SECOND he wanted to save it all if he already KNEW it was going to happen. Like he KNEW Vader had good in him, he knew Kylo didn't. Luke will do anything to save family but what about when family threatens family? It's a great idea and a great movie
Finn completed that arc by the end of The Force Awakens. His Last Jedi arc is mostly busy work to give him something to do. Same with Poe. I'm glad you enjoy the movie, but let's not act like opinions are facts, please. I'm glad you enjoy it.
I was hoping for an exciting editorial but this sadly wasn’t it. I think that’s a HUGE problem with RUclips creators these days is that their views bleed into one another, regurgitating the same talking points over and over again. This video seemed as necessary to make as “Solo”. We all get it. We’ve heard the same criticisms when these films were released. There’s literally hundreds of videos saying the same exact thing. I miss when RUclips creators had contrarian views. Now I feel like hundreds of RUclipsrs are making the same exact videos.
Bud, I question how much of the video you actually watched. This video was too harsh for the fans of the trilogy and too kind for the haters. In short, it's a unique take.
I did enjoy Solo and Rouge One. TV series are typical Disney. Ugh
Andor is incredible
@@ajzeg01 I thought it was boring. Glad you enjoyed it though!
Andor feels like a 2 hour movie stretched to 11 episodes, which is exactly what I think it is. There are three major plot events in 11 episodes.
Well, it does have proper thematic and character development. Which sometimes can slow plot right down.
Ahsoka also does the same... but without much deep developments, in contrast.@@CerealAtMidnight
@@chrissonofpear1384 character development is fine but not at the expense of pacing. Especially with star wars.
Great review. You are correct about no thinking about these movies. Forgettable.
They were bad films.
They clearly didn't have a plan, the story was all over the place and the characters were largely unlikeable.
They didn't honour the legacy of the original films.
The Force Awakens is the best of them all... but it's still not great, and from The Last Jedi onwards the films are just a travesty of horrendous storytelling.
I hate we didn’t get Luke at all five seconds
I tried doing the same experiment last summer. They’re all still bad movies, especially Episode 9. I don’t consider them canon.
Last Jedi review. Perfect
I really enjoyed Rogue One. Out of all the recent movies, it's easily the best one. I liked The Force Awakens. However, I haven't seen Solo and The Rise of Skywalker. I have absolutely no interest in watching The Last jedi. Of course, I'm only talking about the main movies and not the animated series, The Mandalorian, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan Kenobi, The Clone Wars, Andor, or the Book of Boba Fett. The reason why most of the recent Star Wars movies have lost their soul is mostly because of Kathleen Kennedy. She manipulated George Lucas in order to give her complete control of Lucasfilm. She destroyed the franchise by scraping his ideas. She failed to take responsibility for her mistakes by blaming the fans for hating the recent films. It's really unfortunate to see a legendary franchise like Star Wars get treated like this. The people who are in charge have no idea what they are doing because they don't care. They have no respect for the work that George Lucas had put into the older films and for the legacy that he built. Aside from Rogue One, most of the recent movies are mere cash grabs. Thanks, Heath! As always, I really appreciate the hard work! Keep it up! God bless and stay safe!
I made this comment one minute into the video.
100% agree with your takes here sir. I try to forget about these movies, and I mostly do. It's only recently with the Mandalorian and Ahsoka series starting to edge closer to the First Order, they start to come back to me. I hope we get some kind of miracle (like alternate timelines or something) that rewrites this terrible history.
Honestly if we could by some miracle just get an animated adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy, I’d be ok with that. Not gonna happen I’m sure, but that would be nice. Those are the true sequels anyway.
Just let it die.
A fan made version is actually well underway. And a motion comic...@@chriswhite8717
Well, you failed to review the trilogy isolated of it being Star Wars. Thanks for trying 😊
Thanks for watching, commenting, and supporting this video in the algorithm!
Since when they use gas in space
I absolutely loved The Force Awakens when it came out. Saw it at least 7x at the theater. I felt that JJ brought back the magic in this first film. It’s a shame the original actors never had a scene with all 3 together. I also wish there had been an overall plan. Rian Johnson basically undid everything JJ had done in the first film, and then JJ had to undo what Rian had done in the second. So many lost opportunities
The Force Awakens is also my favorite of the sequel trilogy. Yeah it's kinda derivative in many ways, but after the prequels were generally seen as a disappointment, maybe that was kind of what we needed at that time (at least to some extent). And I felt like it set up really great POTENTIAL going forward, so I left the film really excited and hopeful for the rest of the trilogy. However, 8 and 9 did not live up to that potential. The Last Jedi did throw things off-track, in my opinion, but at least Johnson was trying to do something a bit different and unique, it just didn't all work super well and some things fell flat. I felt that Rise of Skywalker, however, was an absolutely TERRIBLE attempt to "fix" those problems from Last Jedi and I found it to be a big mess (though still entertaining, and I was surprised that C-3PO ended up being the best part for me).
The story ends on Endor.
She did nothing
He’s a crybaby
In a word, no.
What's wrong with the sequels? The fans! They prevent Disney from improving on the franchise and try to change things and move forward
Like everybody, i have a lot to say, but long story short, i accept them for what they are, warts and all
You're a couragous man for making a video about the sequels
@@ChrisBipolarjediisatrans-zn4qs no!
Hey Heath. I too am a HUGE Han Solo fan and it crushed me when they killed him off in The Force Awakens. Episodes 8 & 9 are just f’n awful. Not a fan of BB-8…I really agree when Lucas sold to Disney Star Wars lost integrity in movie storytelling & character development. I would have completely been satisfied if they ended it with Episode 6. I truly believe they should have used Jon Favereau & Dave Filoni to direct those films.
I do feel like I'm in a alternate timeline where people think the prequel trilogy are a masterpiece, as a fan who has been there since the beginning, seeing how much Obi seem to be so close to Lukes father, it's like they were best friends or brothers, Obi Wan would talk about when he first saw Anakin he was already a great pilot, then you watch episode 1 he tells Qui Gon "don't tell me you picked up another pathetic life form" then in Return of the Jedi Obi Wan says I took it upon himself to train Anakin, he thought he could train him as well as Yoda trained Obi Wan...Which is a lie because he was forced into...Qui Gon took it upon himself not Obi Wan...Obi Wan told Qui Gon "why can't you see what the jedi counsel sees?" he was against training the boy, as Qui Gon dying wish saying to Obi Wan you must train the boy...He is the chosen one...Which another thing in Return of the Jedi it was a beautiful moment between a father and son...Then George shoe horns a Christ like story for Anakin who by the way kills younglings...
Now we are suppose to see him being this figure fulfilling a long prophecy? Sorry I personally hate that story it makes a beautiful moment in return of the Jedi messy, then you have Yoda not be the character he was in the OG trilogy, you have Leia remembering her mother but not Luke...Since Revenge of the Sith came out this line made no sense...Obi Wan show fixed this, that show also filled a plot hole with Obi and Vader, now the prequels have so many other issues be it terrible dialog or cgi yet people are saying these films age beautifully, instead of complaining about it I would rather celebrate the people who enjoy the films because it's their Star Wars, lets do the same for people who enjoy the sequel trilogy which in my honest opinion TFA and TLJ is already a masterpiece.
Should have made Timothy Zahn trilogy of books with some retro-fitting of time difference.
This pretty much sums up my opinions of the sequel trilogy. I thought The Force Awakens was great the first time I watched it, but the second watching revealed things that started to bug me. At the time, I brushed those doubts off, assuming that the second and third movie would answer and resolve everything. Instead, with each movie, I liked them less and retroactively liked the previous one(s) less. If you want to keep an aging franchise going, introducing new main characters is perfectly legitimate but you also need the audience to connect with those new characters. And they didn't even really try to do that.
If they weren't going to let George lucas write the new movies then disney should have gone with the thrawn trilogy into dark empire.
If my recollection of old interviews I read/had are correct then Return of the jedi was compressed episodes 6-9 as originally planned. At the time lucas never saw himself doing all 9 episodes and wanted to do the prequels over the last three so he compressed the last arc. If it wasn't for a flood I'd still be reading the old expanded universe books.
For me the disney movies are poorly written, highly funded, bad fan fiction to recoup the money spent to get the rights.
And don't get me started on rogue one, that pile just ignores the original radio dramas.
It seems like Disney deliberately ignored 20 years of Expanded Universe just to do their own thing, instead of using it to inform their movies. We had great Thrawn stories from Timothy Zahn, but rather than acknowledge them, Disney ignored them and decided to call 20 years of second-tier continuity "legends." Then they decided they liked some of what he did and he had to start over from scratch, bringing Thrawn back in a new series of "canon" novels that are completely separate and different from the novels he wrote in the 1990s that actually kicked off the Expanded Universe. Messy stuff. But that's Disney for you. It would be like Paul Dini creating Harley Quinn, DC liking what he had done, but saying "We like what you created, but this is our character now, so start over using these guidelines."
The Thrawn trilogy wouldn’t make sense taking place 30 years after the OT, the actors are too old. They’d have to recast if they went in that direction.
@ajzeg01 not a problem for me. The characters are not the actors.
I also get the feeling that there was no story arc set out for the trilogy when production started... at least the main plot points. The 2nd and 3rd movies just felt like sloppy writing. Too much happens in the 3rd movie and it's too long. Some of what happens in the 3rd movie perhaps should have gone into the 2nd. It was so poorly planned out for such an important franchise.😢
Edit: I guess I should have watched the last half of your video before commenting. I just parroted what you said😅