I haven't seen it in person, but whenever I see reviews of this games, I can't help feeling it looks like a home-made prototype. The huge, empty black fields with regular borders, the lollipop planets…
Thanks for the review. I was really interested in this game before it was released, but most of what I have heard about it over the past few months has cooled my jets for it.
Still would love to try this one. However, you more or less addressed my concerns as well. The board seemed too basic; the components (even the deluxe) look only OK. I love the idea of the game... but was afraid it would just boil too much down. Seems like he tried to channel some Cosmic Encounter with purposedly unbalanced factions as well... which works great in that game... but not so sure here. Especially since defense doesn't seem like it is an option. There is a reason why there aren't many "quick" space 4x games. More and more glad that I saved my money and didn't feed into my FOMO. Which is what I am struggling with again now with FLOE... Time will only tell I suppose.
My experience is captured in this video. Sold it after a 7 then 3 player game. Way over priced for a mediocre game. Thought the large game was particularly not worth it - over two hours then we just packed it up unfinished
Yeah I wanted to change that and make it clear to people that I use all ten points and that 5-6 doesn't mean a garbage game unlike in other channels where 7 means terrible
I think the main reason to have this game is for the 6+ player count. I’ve played this a lot 6-8 players, and typically it’s 70-90 minutes. I have no idea how people get 3 hour games of this if they’ve understood the rules. There are so few non-party games that support these high player counts. For that, Last Light fills a unique spot in my collection with the playtime, play style, and player count. That said, I’d probably never choose to play this with 5 or fewer players because I agree with your major criticisms. For the price, the component quality isn’t impressive. I had to get a 3d printed insert to fit the base game plus expansion into the main box. The game tray bins were a complete waste of money.
The game length is variable, that's the issue. There's no round limit. Games will just carry on until one player manages to get away. And with 6+ players you increase the time it takes to go through all the command cards.
The reprint will address many of the "balance issues" and some other minor grievances from the community, but I doubt these fixes will change your mind. Thank you for the review.
100% agree with the larger expansion box. Publishers are just taking advantage of completionists when they leave open spaces in the box. And they unnecessarily increase cost (excessively larger boxes increase cost in terms of material and shipment)
I played 8p in an hour haha. Not sure why it is taking that group 3 hours I will agree that player count is chaos. The game turns into a party 4x game hybrid. Ton of fun!
My problem with this game is the fact that it advertises itself as a "4x Game in an Hour." Even with it taking a bit longer (1.5hrs to 2hrs) that part doesn't bother me. It's the 4x piece that bothers me. Is it a 4x game? Technically, sure okay. But just like was said in the video, the eXplore, eXpand and eXploit pieces are all a bit dull or weak. To me, this feels like an intense and chaotic area control game. In that sense, I think this is a really fun and unique area control game! Just like with Smallworld, you just need to go into it with the expectation that you most likely won't hold onto your planets and ships very long. But to try to sell this as a 4x game, I think that is what hurts the game. People have certain expectations for 4x games and this game just doesn't quite scratch that itch in my opinion. Again, I think this is a really good game! It's just not what I would consider to be a 4x game. Even though it technically checks all the boxes, there is a certain feel that 4x games provide, which I don't get from this one. Also, I got the deluxe version that includes the 3D ships and asteroids and other fun pieces. I think the planets from the standard version should be deluxe pieces. You can get upgraded planets, but why? I personally don't think they look all that more exciting than the originals. Plus, the 3D planets do get in the way. I would have actually preferred that they used flat cardboard tokens to represent the planets. It would have been much easier to see and to see around. I also agree with the chaotic randomness of the faction abilities. This has been a big pain point for many people and the standard response is that the game is random and chaotic in nature, so it all balances out in the end. I'm sorry, I don't agree. I've played a few times and could definitely feel the advantage and disadvantage from having better or worse faction abilities, regardless of the randomness of the rest of the game. For a crazy area control game, I'm okay with that. But for a 4x game where you are supposed to represent a unique faction that is making its own unique mark in the universe, this is a big miss for me. As for the "expansion," the fact that it only provides pieces to play 5-8 players seems like a tease to me. That is literally ALL that it is. That's not an expansion in my opinion, that's just an upgrade kit. An expansion to me would include additional pieces, mechanics, and rules that you don't see in the base game. But everything in the expansion is found in the base game, you just get more of it so as to play up to 8 players. As for actually playing 8 players...nope! I did 5 players which was probably as high as I would ever want to go. Playing 6 players might work but it will definitely start getting extremely crazy. I watched an 8 player game once and it was just non-stop battles. You couldn't hold onto ANYTHING. I didn't actually play, but I'm glad I didn't because I would have just gotten frustrated. When it is THAT chaotic, you truly have no control over your fate, so why even bother? Especially when it is supposed to be a 4x game, the idea in a 4x game is that you are crafting a unique faction and empire. You're not creating hardly anything when your ships keep getting blasted and your planets keep getting taken over. All in all, I do think that this is a fun game and I would gladly play it again, up to 5 players. But I would play it under the premise of it being an area control game. If I and my buddies wanted to play a 4x game, I'd rather play something else. Personally, I actually do LOVE Eclipse and think that it is a fun 4x game, one that not only checks the boxes but actually provide the 4x feel of being a unique faction within the universe, even if everyone was playing as the humans.
Thanks for the review Luke. I would try it but this video made it clear this is not a game for me. BTW, good idea to include a chart next to your rating. A 5/10 = not a complete dud, simply average…which is what a 10 point scale should be !
You should try Empire of the Stars. Its a 4X (but no player elimination) fast-paced boardgame where each turn one of 7 different roles is chosen by the active player. Like Puerto Rico, each player get a turn acting the chosen role and the active player gets a privilege. It has a build in timer, so the game wont last forever 😊
I presented the balance issues to the designer and he said its by design that some abilities are meant to be better than other to encourage bashing the leader.
Theres some hyperbole there so let me clarify, heres the official response. "Welcome to the campaign and thanks for your interest in the game! Last light can be a chaotic game. Sometimes that means big come-from-behind moments. Sometimes it means a leader that can't be stopped. The game is not perfectly balanced and players are expected to work together to try and reel in a player who is exploiting a powerful combination of technologies or a menacing alien faction power. But after hundreds of playtests we like those things about it! I tell you all this for context because even though we HAVE made some adjustments based on feedback from the community, the chaos, and associated drama is still very much a part of this game! For this second printing, 2 minor adjustments have been made to movement technologies. 1. The Pioneering card now allows a player to move only a single ship and not all ships of 1 type. (we agree after deeper analysis that the original tech gave outsized value for its cost) 2. The Supersonic technology is slightly more expensive (meaning it tends to show up a round later in the game giving players without this speed tech a change to develop other avenues to compete) These two minor changes alter the pace of the race very slightly but players will still need to keep an eye on their opponents and combine forces to slow down a player who finds good exploration tokens, develops strong tech, or has a particularly nasty alien faction ability. Thanks for being a part of the campaign and good luck in your pursuit of the Last Light!"@@TheBrokenMeeple
Another excellent review! I was waiting for this one soo long. This game almost got me, but the price (especially for all-in -- I love the best looking one IF I decide to get it) was just too much. And how am I glad now. SOLO I really would miss. I was already afraid about the little token fiddly ness. And you also confirmed the missing X-ploration, when I was thinking hard (even now with LL V2-campaign) to back this or not. And do I agree with you on the look of the map! Love your work Luke
I’m right there with you as well as Shelfside on this. Bought and had high hopes, even tried to house rule, but alas it still fell flat to other game we own. While not space, my fav short 4X still March of the Ants by far.
I prefer having a box fit everything in it. I get what you're saying but the expansion is just more pieces for a higher player count so it came out at the same time. The trays that fit it the box being extra add ons is a bit unforgivable imo. That's part of the storage solution, don't be cheap, not for that price point especially. Grey Fox Games makes such bad components too. They feel so cheap, even the plastic upgrade pieces feel like dollar store chits. 2nd game I have from Grey Fox, and I'm absolutely done with them. Premium price for discount components.
Thanks for this video! This game has been getting a lot of hype. I was very much on the fence about getting this one, but something just didn't feel right (never played it). Your video is the first one I saw with some proper critiques. I'll be skipping this one.
that confirms my impressions of the game. It appears to be quite sterile and bland. The board itself.. the artist thought this was a good idea? Supernova does something similar. I think *Galactic Emperor* does a pretty good job in boiling down TI4 in 90min. But it also sacrifices all the fluff and idiosyncracies TI offers. A game doesnt have to be clinical. Except its an abstract game.
Yeah, dice tower Roy or not, it didn't look like a game for me. The silly choices about the components was one thing. Over the top and underwhelming at the same time, but then a lot of red flags about gameplay popped up as well.
The retail version components (I don't know about other versions) is pure trash, really the worst quality board game I ever bought, we played ONCE before sleeving the cards and some already had white spots on the back :( We really love the game tho, very pleasant to play. So sad they really cheaped out.
Honestly that is the weirdest thing i have heard. So make 2 boxes? Imagine if every publisher did this insane thing. Who thinks of getting a biger box to then just throw out a box. That is why inserts are invented. It also makes more waste and it is not free to make extra boxes. No company in their right minds would ever do that. Honestly i am shocked you even thought of this. #insanity
I thought the same. But thinking about it, he really has a point. Normally, you're discarding the expansion box. Now you discard the base game box. Not big of a difference.
@@TheBrokenMeeple not the correct order. Shipping an empty box is just shipping volume of air instead of a full board game or expansion in a box. That costs money. Also thise big boxes fill up retailers stores. And will it sell? Not everybody will buy the expansion so they don't need the big box. And do we need bigger boxes? I have everything Everdell in the complete collection bix but it is so big and heavy now that I don't even get it to the table, let alone carry that monstrosity to game night.And i have my expansion boxes on the wall as art.
I haven't seen it in person, but whenever I see reviews of this games, I can't help feeling it looks like a home-made prototype. The huge, empty black fields with regular borders, the lollipop planets…
The board is the big sink, just black with no art.
Thanks for the review. I was really interested in this game before it was released, but most of what I have heard about it over the past few months has cooled my jets for it.
Glad I could help!
Still would love to try this one. However, you more or less addressed my concerns as well. The board seemed too basic; the components (even the deluxe) look only OK. I love the idea of the game... but was afraid it would just boil too much down. Seems like he tried to channel some Cosmic Encounter with purposedly unbalanced factions as well... which works great in that game... but not so sure here. Especially since defense doesn't seem like it is an option. There is a reason why there aren't many "quick" space 4x games. More and more glad that I saved my money and didn't feed into my FOMO. Which is what I am struggling with again now with FLOE... Time will only tell I suppose.
most honest board game reviews on RUclips. amazing!
Glad you think so! Appreciate it!
My experience is captured in this video. Sold it after a 7 then 3 player game. Way over priced for a mediocre game. Thought the large game was particularly not worth it - over two hours then we just packed it up unfinished
2 hours and still not finished, what a waste!
Very frank and informative review - thanks.
That's how I roll thank you!
Totally agree with you about the expansion boxes. what is the problem really? is it a production thing? or big boxes catch the eyes better maybe?
Nice addition of your 10pt scale at the end 👍
Yeah I wanted to change that and make it clear to people that I use all ten points and that 5-6 doesn't mean a garbage game unlike in other channels where 7 means terrible
It is a smart move, for sure. It makes your content more inclusive for people who don't frequent the channel.
@@Original_Maverick yeah I explained how it worked in my q and a recently but of course that is only useful if you watch it 🤣
I think the main reason to have this game is for the 6+ player count. I’ve played this a lot 6-8 players, and typically it’s 70-90 minutes. I have no idea how people get 3 hour games of this if they’ve understood the rules.
There are so few non-party games that support these high player counts. For that, Last Light fills a unique spot in my collection with the playtime, play style, and player count.
That said, I’d probably never choose to play this with 5 or fewer players because I agree with your major criticisms. For the price, the component quality isn’t impressive. I had to get a 3d printed insert to fit the base game plus expansion into the main box. The game tray bins were a complete waste of money.
The game length is variable, that's the issue. There's no round limit. Games will just carry on until one player manages to get away. And with 6+ players you increase the time it takes to go through all the command cards.
The reprint will address many of the "balance issues" and some other minor grievances from the community, but I doubt these fixes will change your mind. Thank you for the review.
It would help but that won't solve the other major issues.
@@TheBrokenMeeple mountains and mole hills
100% agree with the larger expansion box. Publishers are just taking advantage of completionists when they leave open spaces in the box. And they unnecessarily increase cost (excessively larger boxes increase cost in terms of material and shipment)
I played 8p in an hour haha. Not sure why it is taking that group 3 hours
I will agree that player count is chaos. The game turns into a party 4x game hybrid. Ton of fun!
The game length is variable, it entirely depends on what goes on because there's no game structure.
My problem with this game is the fact that it advertises itself as a "4x Game in an Hour." Even with it taking a bit longer (1.5hrs to 2hrs) that part doesn't bother me. It's the 4x piece that bothers me.
Is it a 4x game? Technically, sure okay. But just like was said in the video, the eXplore, eXpand and eXploit pieces are all a bit dull or weak. To me, this feels like an intense and chaotic area control game. In that sense, I think this is a really fun and unique area control game! Just like with Smallworld, you just need to go into it with the expectation that you most likely won't hold onto your planets and ships very long.
But to try to sell this as a 4x game, I think that is what hurts the game. People have certain expectations for 4x games and this game just doesn't quite scratch that itch in my opinion. Again, I think this is a really good game! It's just not what I would consider to be a 4x game. Even though it technically checks all the boxes, there is a certain feel that 4x games provide, which I don't get from this one.
Also, I got the deluxe version that includes the 3D ships and asteroids and other fun pieces. I think the planets from the standard version should be deluxe pieces. You can get upgraded planets, but why? I personally don't think they look all that more exciting than the originals. Plus, the 3D planets do get in the way. I would have actually preferred that they used flat cardboard tokens to represent the planets. It would have been much easier to see and to see around.
I also agree with the chaotic randomness of the faction abilities. This has been a big pain point for many people and the standard response is that the game is random and chaotic in nature, so it all balances out in the end. I'm sorry, I don't agree. I've played a few times and could definitely feel the advantage and disadvantage from having better or worse faction abilities, regardless of the randomness of the rest of the game. For a crazy area control game, I'm okay with that. But for a 4x game where you are supposed to represent a unique faction that is making its own unique mark in the universe, this is a big miss for me.
As for the "expansion," the fact that it only provides pieces to play 5-8 players seems like a tease to me. That is literally ALL that it is. That's not an expansion in my opinion, that's just an upgrade kit. An expansion to me would include additional pieces, mechanics, and rules that you don't see in the base game. But everything in the expansion is found in the base game, you just get more of it so as to play up to 8 players.
As for actually playing 8 players...nope! I did 5 players which was probably as high as I would ever want to go. Playing 6 players might work but it will definitely start getting extremely crazy. I watched an 8 player game once and it was just non-stop battles. You couldn't hold onto ANYTHING. I didn't actually play, but I'm glad I didn't because I would have just gotten frustrated. When it is THAT chaotic, you truly have no control over your fate, so why even bother? Especially when it is supposed to be a 4x game, the idea in a 4x game is that you are crafting a unique faction and empire. You're not creating hardly anything when your ships keep getting blasted and your planets keep getting taken over.
All in all, I do think that this is a fun game and I would gladly play it again, up to 5 players. But I would play it under the premise of it being an area control game. If I and my buddies wanted to play a 4x game, I'd rather play something else. Personally, I actually do LOVE Eclipse and think that it is a fun 4x game, one that not only checks the boxes but actually provide the 4x feel of being a unique faction within the universe, even if everyone was playing as the humans.
Good read, and agree, v this game was a dud for me.
Thanks for the review Luke. I would try it but this video made it clear this is not a game for me.
BTW, good idea to include a chart next to your rating. A 5/10 = not a complete dud, simply average…which is what a 10 point scale should be !
Exactly!! The industry is brainwashed into the "less than 7 is terrible" mentality.
You should try Empire of the Stars.
Its a 4X (but no player elimination) fast-paced boardgame where each turn one of 7 different roles is chosen by the active player. Like Puerto Rico, each player get a turn acting the chosen role and the active player gets a privilege.
It has a build in timer, so the game wont last forever 😊
Never heard of that one before!
@TheBrokenMeeple You will love the colorful board, that's for sure 😃
I presented the balance issues to the designer and he said its by design that some abilities are meant to be better than other to encourage bashing the leader.
That's insanity!
Theres some hyperbole there so let me clarify, heres the official response. "Welcome to the campaign and thanks for your interest in the game! Last light can be a chaotic game. Sometimes that means big come-from-behind moments. Sometimes it means a leader that can't be stopped. The game is not perfectly balanced and players are expected to work together to try and reel in a player who is exploiting a powerful combination of technologies or a menacing alien faction power. But after hundreds of playtests we like those things about it! I tell you all this for context because even though we HAVE made some adjustments based on feedback from the community, the chaos, and associated drama is still very much a part of this game! For this second printing, 2 minor adjustments have been made to movement technologies. 1. The Pioneering card now allows a player to move only a single ship and not all ships of 1 type. (we agree after deeper analysis that the original tech gave outsized value for its cost) 2. The Supersonic technology is slightly more expensive (meaning it tends to show up a round later in the game giving players without this speed tech a change to develop other avenues to compete) These two minor changes alter the pace of the race very slightly but players will still need to keep an eye on their opponents and combine forces to slow down a player who finds good exploration tokens, develops strong tech, or has a particularly nasty alien faction ability. Thanks for being a part of the campaign and good luck in your pursuit of the Last Light!"@@TheBrokenMeeple
Totally agree about the speed enhancements. Overpowered.
Luke seriously just said "dulled down to a point"...
Red Dwarf intro...NICE
Another excellent review! I was waiting for this one soo long. This game almost got me, but the price (especially for all-in -- I love the best looking one IF I decide to get it) was just too much. And how am I glad now. SOLO I really would miss. I was already afraid about the little token fiddly ness. And you also confirmed the missing X-ploration, when I was thinking hard (even now with LL V2-campaign) to back this or not. And do I agree with you on the look of the map! Love your work Luke
Thank you so much!!!
I’m right there with you as well as Shelfside on this. Bought and had high hopes, even tried to house rule, but alas it still fell flat to other game we own. While not space, my fav short 4X still March of the Ants by far.
That is a game I really need to try, I hear a lot about it.
Impulse is absolutely fabulous 4X game, it's Chudyk so pure chaos, but you actually get a proper 4X and you can play it in about an hour.
I prefer having a box fit everything in it. I get what you're saying but the expansion is just more pieces for a higher player count so it came out at the same time.
The trays that fit it the box being extra add ons is a bit unforgivable imo. That's part of the storage solution, don't be cheap, not for that price point especially. Grey Fox Games makes such bad components too. They feel so cheap, even the plastic upgrade pieces feel like dollar store chits. 2nd game I have from Grey Fox, and I'm absolutely done with them. Premium price for discount components.
Thanks for this video! This game has been getting a lot of hype. I was very much on the fence about getting this one, but something just didn't feel right (never played it). Your video is the first one I saw with some proper critiques. I'll be skipping this one.
Room and Board has said he was disappointed and wanted to like the game but didn't
You're welcome thanks!!
@@MrDJCoulton Ah, hadn't seen that one, going to check it out now!
Luke, I think you just got kicked off the Dice Tower network. But I agree, not interested. Your honest opinion is much appreciated. Thx!
Ha ha you know me, tell it how it is, regardless!
Never played it, but now not fussed!
I don't think it is for you.
That really is my fave red dwarf scene of all time 😂
Such a classic!
This cements what I was thinking already, I will stick to Eclipse Second Dawn. Quicker, funner and much more meaning powers
Hmmmm, funner is debatable 😁, though quicker hold up. I know this game can drag sometimes but in no way is Eclipse a faster game.
that confirms my impressions of the game. It appears to be quite sterile and bland. The board itself.. the artist thought this was a good idea? Supernova does something similar.
I think *Galactic Emperor* does a pretty good job in boiling down TI4 in 90min.
But it also sacrifices all the fluff and idiosyncracies TI offers.
A game doesnt have to be clinical. Except its an abstract game.
It has dice for combat... yak!
So glad I stayed away from this game. This was hyped way too much and really glad you have reviewed this as definitely not a game for me.
Thank you for watching!
Nice review, what a shame, the game sounded pretty nice at the beggining and then, is went down and down.
I’m disappointed that you would play any space game other than empires of the void II
Well forbidden stars and star wars rebellion and xia are decent too
Yeah, dice tower Roy or not, it didn't look like a game for me. The silly choices about the components was one thing. Over the top and underwhelming at the same time, but then a lot of red flags about gameplay popped up as well.
Connections won't influence the verdict at the end of the day
The retail version components (I don't know about other versions) is pure trash, really the worst quality board game I ever bought, we played ONCE before sleeving the cards and some already had white spots on the back :( We really love the game tho, very pleasant to play. So sad they really cheaped out.
Components wise, yeah it's pathetic with the asking price.
Honestly that is the weirdest thing i have heard. So make 2 boxes? Imagine if every publisher did this insane thing. Who thinks of getting a biger box to then just throw out a box. That is why inserts are invented. It also makes more waste and it is not free to make extra boxes. No company in their right minds would ever do that. Honestly i am shocked you even thought of this. #insanity
Yeah I was shocked when I heard his gripe about that.
You're discarding a box one way or the other, at least this way it's done in the correct order
I thought the same. But thinking about it, he really has a point. Normally, you're discarding the expansion box. Now you discard the base game box. Not big of a difference.
@@TheBrokenMeeple not the correct order. Shipping an empty box is just shipping volume of air instead of a full board game or expansion in a box. That costs money. Also thise big boxes fill up retailers stores. And will it sell? Not everybody will buy the expansion so they don't need the big box. And do we need bigger boxes? I have everything Everdell in the complete collection bix but it is so big and heavy now that I don't even get it to the table, let alone carry that monstrosity to game night.And i have my expansion boxes on the wall as art.
@@HALOX30 Everdell got far too bloated but it still needed at least a decent sized box to hold everything to date.