I think it would be helpful to separate the scenario where Esper Sentinel is tutored by Ranger-Captain of Eos from situations where it is not. The Ranger-Captain is a very strong card that significantly boosts the win rate. In this case, playing Esper Sentinel doesn't cost you a card from your hand; it's essentially a bonus provided by the Captain, and the winrate is actually Esper Sentinel + Ranger Captain vs Remora. On the other hand, Mystic Remora typically requires you to spend a card from your hand in most cases.
Stats like this are my favourite part of cEDH. I wonder though, how do stats in RUclips videos which are played for content differ from tournament games where players are competing for real prizes and are more willing to play less cards to play around Mystic/Esper change the win rates. I'd imagine Remora tends to be worse if you're playing fast decks like RogSi but mid-range and control likes like TnK or Tivit are happier sitting on Remora and just playing lands each turn.
I would love to know that to but I can't really get tournament data like this. But I do have 2 tournament games in here actully, I watched a live stream from a tournament and added the stats in here.
I think the big difference hear is that esper not many people care about. It’s one spell you pay 1. For fish you need a land drop to continue, however I have a good amount of pods where players just stop playing the game until fish is gone which will never happen with esper. So hands down I think fish is better for those reasons most people won’t pay for remora as well to esper they can. I also like to think of it past turn one, if we look at this 4 turns in which one would you take a remora or esper and the answer is always remora. I also hardly see esper countered ever so that also shows the power level difference. I think you would have to see each match and determine if one won because of those specific draws to know truly know but I’m guessing remora.
Isen't the fact that people stop playing the game a reason Fish is weaker. On the record I haven't seen that in the games I watched. People tend to cast spells and feed the fish while it is alive. But if it affects your pod to cast less spells then fish draws less and makes it weaker. But I will agree that lategame remora is better then esper.
Is there a statistic on how often the fish gets countered? Might be influencing the winrate difference if they're in the data from the moment they're cast regardless of it resolving or not
Yes there is. Or kinda. I do write down how often people counterspell value plays. If a force of will is used I currently write down what it counterd, not what card but if it counterd a stax card, value card, combo card, tutor, bordwhipe etc. But I also have data on if the fish sat in play and drew a lot of cards or if it was just casted and drew no cards. So yes but not in a clean way that I can just answer here. But I do play to showcase the force of will part once I have looked into what the data is showing.
You need to pay for remora to keep it and easier to counter, while esper is both a creature and a artifact to tutor with Urza's saga or ranger captain of eos. Paying 3 mana sometimes to keep the fish while with esper you can hit people to draw cards with Tymna or reduce Ad naseaum value. Only my opinion.
You can't search for the esper sentinel with urza's saga Chapter 3 ability because it can only search for artifact with mana value 0 or 1 in its mana cost it doesn't count as colored mana symbol in its cost. And ad naus curve value doesn't change eather because both are 1 mana value cards.
Seeing how high the win rate is for the one ring atm would you suggest playing it in Blue Farm without Minamo? Just curious based on your previous video on blue farm.
I personally don’t play it anymore id rather have cephalopod or ortawara. It’s nice if you can get it but i hardly ever do so i prefer color fixing if not the other 2.
Yes and no. Let me say this. I don't think tutoring for it turn 4 is a good idea. If you can play it turn 1 that it is awsome regardless. If your alredy mulliganing a lot, then I thin the one ring could be good. But I actully think it might be better to skip the one ring. The games when the one ring have been good from the gameplay videos, there has been synergy. There have been a few wins when people have unqinding clock and the one ring. Or seedborn muse and the one ring.
Hello there. You have forgotten to say the biggest difference between esper sentinel and mystic remora in general that drawing a card from esper sentinel isn't optional and can ruin your win with thoracle consultation. Thats the reason i cut him off of a deck. It basically looses games. Also i like to have more blue cards in deck so i can pitch them to force of will. Anyway have a nice day. :)
Hey! Heads up, you can sacrifice Esper Sentinel (Culling the Weak, Diabolic Tutor) in Brain Freeze lines to just not lose instead. Same thing as Kraum, it's literally impossible to lose to your own card unless you are intentionally trying to lose that way.
This is no question that esper sentinel is better than Remora. Rhystic study has been the best card in the format for a long time. This isn’t new Information.
I think it would be helpful to separate the scenario where Esper Sentinel is tutored by Ranger-Captain of Eos from situations where it is not. The Ranger-Captain is a very strong card that significantly boosts the win rate. In this case, playing Esper Sentinel doesn't cost you a card from your hand; it's essentially a bonus provided by the Captain, and the winrate is actually Esper Sentinel + Ranger Captain vs Remora. On the other hand, Mystic Remora typically requires you to spend a card from your hand in most cases.
I have that data. I do write down what cards ranger captain tutors for. I haven't looked at it yet but I do have it.
This makes me think about watching Pontus throwing away hands that lean all in on Fish
Ty this is another banger!
"there is no taxes on this thing"
- cEDH TV, talking about Esper Sentinel and Rhystic study, taken out of context
I meant cumultive upkeep tax that you the owner pays.
@@cedhtv I know, but it does sound funny out of context
Thought provoking work
Stats like this are my favourite part of cEDH. I wonder though, how do stats in RUclips videos which are played for content differ from tournament games where players are competing for real prizes and are more willing to play less cards to play around Mystic/Esper change the win rates. I'd imagine Remora tends to be worse if you're playing fast decks like RogSi but mid-range and control likes like TnK or Tivit are happier sitting on Remora and just playing lands each turn.
I would love to know that to but I can't really get tournament data like this. But I do have 2 tournament games in here actully, I watched a live stream from a tournament and added the stats in here.
@cedhtv Yeah it's unfortunate tournament don't typically have video coverage. I appreciate the effort you put in though! It's a lot of work.
I think the big difference hear is that esper not many people care about. It’s one spell you pay 1. For fish you need a land drop to continue, however I have a good amount of pods where players just stop playing the game until fish is gone which will never happen with esper. So hands down I think fish is better for those reasons most people won’t pay for remora as well to esper they can. I also like to think of it past turn one, if we look at this 4 turns in which one would you take a remora or esper and the answer is always remora. I also hardly see esper countered ever so that also shows the power level difference. I think you would have to see each match and determine if one won because of those specific draws to know truly know but I’m guessing remora.
Isen't the fact that people stop playing the game a reason Fish is weaker. On the record I haven't seen that in the games I watched. People tend to cast spells and feed the fish while it is alive. But if it affects your pod to cast less spells then fish draws less and makes it weaker. But I will agree that lategame remora is better then esper.
@@cedhtv Depends on what your deck is trying to do. If you're playing the control game, a few free turns can be very important.
Is there a statistic on how often the fish gets countered? Might be influencing the winrate difference if they're in the data from the moment they're cast regardless of it resolving or not
Yes there is. Or kinda. I do write down how often people counterspell value plays. If a force of will is used I currently write down what it counterd, not what card but if it counterd a stax card, value card, combo card, tutor, bordwhipe etc.
But I also have data on if the fish sat in play and drew a lot of cards or if it was just casted and drew no cards. So yes but not in a clean way that I can just answer here. But I do play to showcase the force of will part once I have looked into what the data is showing.
@@cedhtv Awesome thanks for your hard work!
You need to pay for remora to keep it and easier to counter, while esper is both a creature and a artifact to tutor with Urza's saga or ranger captain of eos. Paying 3 mana sometimes to keep the fish while with esper you can hit people to draw cards with Tymna or reduce Ad naseaum value. Only my opinion.
No I agree. I was thinking of saying that Esper and Tymna draws cards now and then. Like esper turn 1 into tymna turn 2 is good.
You can't search for the esper sentinel with urza's saga Chapter 3 ability because it can only search for artifact with mana value 0 or 1 in its mana cost it doesn't count as colored mana symbol in its cost. And ad naus curve value doesn't change eather because both are 1 mana value cards.
@@rikudousennin1218 ty for the enlightened tutor
So TLDR; Mystic should be considered like a soft Silence.
YES! It really should. Someone wrote that casting silence in upkeep in respons to fish cummultiuve cost sounds like a good idea.
❤❤❤
Seeing how high the win rate is for the one ring atm would you suggest playing it in Blue Farm without Minamo? Just curious based on your previous video on blue farm.
I personally don’t play it anymore id rather have cephalopod or ortawara. It’s nice if you can get it but i hardly ever do so i prefer color fixing if not the other 2.
Yes and no. Let me say this. I don't think tutoring for it turn 4 is a good idea. If you can play it turn 1 that it is awsome regardless. If your alredy mulliganing a lot, then I thin the one ring could be good. But I actully think it might be better to skip the one ring. The games when the one ring have been good from the gameplay videos, there has been synergy. There have been a few wins when people have unqinding clock and the one ring. Or seedborn muse and the one ring.
Hello there. You have forgotten to say the biggest difference between esper sentinel and mystic remora in general that drawing a card from esper sentinel isn't optional and can ruin your win with thoracle consultation. Thats the reason i cut him off of a deck. It basically looses games. Also i like to have more blue cards in deck so i can pitch them to force of will. Anyway have a nice day. :)
This is true. I have seen players in gameplay videos actully lose games to this.
Hey! Heads up, you can sacrifice Esper Sentinel (Culling the Weak, Diabolic Tutor) in Brain Freeze lines to just not lose instead. Same thing as Kraum, it's literally impossible to lose to your own card unless you are intentionally trying to lose that way.
This is no question that esper sentinel is better than Remora.
Rhystic study has been the best card in the format for a long time. This isn’t new Information.
Yes we all know rhystic is the BOSS. But Before I looked at the data I thought remora was better then esper.
@@cedhtv sorry I didn’t finish my comment and it comes off very negative. It’s all love! Keep killing it!
I'm in first few seconds of video, but i think people slam remora too early. It's better on the combo turn than the first turn.
I agree. I think remora is better late game then eraly game ATM.
Than not then
Thanks. Fixed.
If I drop a Mystic Remora I am guaranteed to draw cards. Table just gives up. If I Try an early game Esper or Study, Table at least tries.
@@Radjammin nothing is guaranteed. People just refuse to play noncreature spells until remora is gone. But its good to stax them like this.