After 29 playthroughs it’s simple… (Staryu Only - Pokemon Yellow)
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Rules:
1. Only my starter in battle
2. No items in battle, except held items
3. No glitches, exploits, or save states
4. No movepool evasion-boosting moves before level 100*
Rule details:
-- I make no attempt to have the exact same rule details between generations.
-- I am allowed to manipulate my starter
-- I play the game at 4x game speed
-- For fair comparisons my Pokemon have perfect (or near perfect) DVs / IVs
-- I am allowed to catch HM users - I can use all field moves
-- Evasion boosting is allowed if the move is not obtained from the Pokemon’s movepool. For example, using Mimic or Mirror Move to boost evasion is allowed.
-- Surge's trash-can-puzzle is automatically solved
-- The bike is allowed in gen1 & 4, banned in gen2, and allowed only to bypass terrain in gen3
-- Saving between league members is allowed
-- I can pause the game and timer to take breaks
-- Items obtained with the ability Pickup can only be used if the starter obtained them
-- The footage is sped up & slowed down to match the pace of my narration
These Rule details apply only to generation 1:
-- All battle-mechanic glitches are allowed (glitches that occur outside of battle are banned)
-- In generation 1, I'm allowed to skip Marowak with the Poke Doll
If you didn’t read these rules and left a comment. Thanks for helping with the algorithm.
Patreon: / scottsthoughts
RUclips memberships:
/ @scottsthoughtspokemon
X: / psychicflying
Thumbnail art by BrianLS: / brianlsart
Illustrations by Sarina Vail: / sarinavail
Video Editing by Shawn McMullen
STAB: bulbapedia.bul...
DVs / IVs: bulbapedia.bul...
Damage Calculation: bulbapedia.bul...
Stat and Catch Calculators: pycosites.com/...
Gen1 Crit Rates: www.smogon.com...
Growth Rates: bulbapedia.bul...
Learnsets: bulbapedia.bul...
Base Stats: bulbapedia.bul...)
If you're new around here, Venomoth is a Psychic/Flying type, you can't change my mind.
For those wondering about blackout training on Brock's Geodude, here are some numbers:
Tackle
- Staryu, at lv16 has a 1.7% chance to 10hko
- Geodude has a 20.2% chance to 10hko
- To get reliable ranges, Staryu has a 99.5% chance to 17hko and Geodude has a 99.7% chance to 14hko.
- So it's just likely that you're going to lose trying to get the trainer boosted EXP from the Geodude.
Struggle
- Better damage ranges
- 25.4% 6hko
- 100% 8hko
- 1/2 damage in recoil (2-4 per turn totaling 12-14 damage [Geodude has 29 HP])
- Geodude's tackle does 4-5 regular damage and 5-7 with a crit. If every hit is regular then it will attack 5 times for 20-25 damage.
- 25 + 14 = 39 so Staryu would survive with 3 HP (it has 42 health at lv16)
- If Geodude crits even once then Staryu loses and just wastes time
Summary:
- Tackle isn't an option
- Struggle is high risk, but could give a bit of trainer boosted experience
- Grinding wild Pokemon is by far the most reliable way to play the early game
What about blackout training the junior trainer in Brock’s gym AFTER KO’ing some wild poke, which would lead to either less hp or less tackle pp for junior trainer.
Both cases are better as you’ll likely beat diglett consistently but faint at sandshrew.
Battling at less hp would be preferable like 10-20 less hp because it looks like the only way you’d run out of tackle PP and start using struggle on the junior trainer would be depleting the 35 PP down to 10 PP
Almost certainly weakening yourself with wilds then blacking out is slightly faster
I got in an argument a while back with another content creator who was dead convinced that starmie would be the best possible Pokémon to solo run fire red with. Turned out he hadn’t actually done the run; or any solo runs, didn’t understand how growth rates work or the fundamental metrics of success. This is why actually doing these runs to gather this data is important. Ran into some other Scott’s Thoughts fans in the comments making the same points, great community guys!
People never realize that growth rate is so important, the only two that can bypass this with great strategy is mew and mewtwo
@@chrisgonzales4420it really seems like people miss the importance of growth rate a lot; there are a few other Pokémon without legendary stats that have the tools to be good but not great. Like every “best Pokémon” video tends to just throw out starmie or gyarados and they’re ok, but definitely not the best.
The need to buy ice beam/thunderbolt in the gambling corner would make starmie waste time too.
Maybe Starmie would win something for the lowest level non legendary pokemon to do a solo challenge. Slow leveling group would help too as it won't level up as much.
@@naraiceylob move availability is a big part of the downgrade for sure, along with psychic being a less dominant typing in Gen 3, starmie losing some special defense in the split and having an ability that literally does nothing
Also it doesn’t get calm mind as never has for some reason
The in depth explanation about first stage water types in the beginning is one of the many things that set you apart. That level of effort to craft a story about the video we are about to watch is unnecessary but very appreciated.
I’m going to try to go in depth like this more and more comparing all the results I’ve collected as we approach the finale.
I think it’s a really interesting way to engage us intellectually while you are showing us the grind in the background for some of the slower parts in the playthrough
Shouts out jrose, then forgets Erika.
Poetry.
Venomoth Fact #34: Venomoth occasionally uses Staryu and Starmie as personal fidget spinners. This is a surprisingly well paid job that has gone on for generations.
Such cruel and mischievous behavior, justifies Venemoth being the only dark/fairy dual type in generation one
How is that a job?
This feels like a Jimothy Cool factoid
That explains why they can afford so many Star Pieces!
Lick paralysis chance:30%
Against Scott: 100%
Bruno managing to knockout Staryu is an incredibly small chance. It requires failing a 25% X Defend check, a 25% choice to use Submission, an 80% chance to hit, and a 10.7% chance to crit for .75 * .25 * .8 * .107 = 1.61%. For reference, Staryu has a crit chance of 16.6%, meaning the chance for back to back crits will be 2.76%. It is significantly more likely for Staryu to have multiple crits in a row than for Bruno to be able to hit a critical Submission.
Me: "It feels like it's been a bit since that last Scott video"
Scott, 1 hour later: "I'm soloing the main series pokemon game with every species"
Me: "Excellent. Have a thumbs up."
Thank you for the wonderful video again Scott~
It probably wouldnt save that much time, but I think Scott couldve used Swift for Sabrina because he didnt need to teach Ice Beam until the R22 rival. For Erika you're overleveled anyway and have Psychic, I don't think theres another trainer its useful for
Wanted to mention this as well, ice beam really isn’t that helpful for water Pokémon with psychic in the midgame. Psychic takes care of all the grass/poison types for you
It was cool to see Scott in a Jrose play through. Now it’s cool to see Jrose in a Scott play through. Will MDB show up!
The holy Trinity 🎉🎉
BigLeagueMDB is bound to appear at *SOME* point.
BigLeagueMDB: But on my way to the video, I took the Helix Fossil. I knew that if I didn't say what I took, you'd all ask. Actually, I think you'll ask anyway. Comments are good for the RUclips algorithm.
The stone evolution tradeoff with level-up moves is actually noted in Gen 5 by an NPC (also very obvious from the monkey pokemon you get for free for the first gym), so that's canon, yeah
Don't they say something similar in the anime, too? When Ash's fighting Surge and loses, nurse Joy offers him a thunderstone, but Pikachu refuses. Later in the rematch, Pikachu uses some high level attacks and Misty comments something like "woah, Pikachu learns that attack on a high level and since Surge evolved his early, it has no access to it"
The Hiker: I need a vacation.
Bruno: *I gotchu fam.*
Oof. I was very wrong. I thought it would hit around c teir. Poor little star, it had alll the answers it nedded but at the wrong times.
I realy had fun with the breakdown of what was needed for a water type to succeed. It realy helped me focus on and understand the importance of specific points you were brining upthrought the video. It also meant is was better able to understand why my guess of "around c teir" was misguided. I would love more viedieos like this, it was quite engaging.
Thanks for the feedback! I’m working on trying to make the narratives more cohesive like this, so I’m glad you noticed! Means on I’m on the right path.
Was wondering why things were so quiet from the Scott's Thoughts channel... turns out he was doing 29 runs with Staryu... Talk about dedication!
That was my first though too. But I think he may meen 29 watter pokemon runs.
Scott, I loved that intro, been here since the very early days and seen the progression in your presentation skyrocket, I really liked how it was concise and informative, to someone who's never seen one of your videos before, it's a great introduction to the project, but not lengthy and filler enough to put off longtime viewers
I’m putting in a lot of time behind the scenes trying to make the intros better. Removing them was obviously not the right choice (see Sentret video comments.) thanks for this comment, it’s proof that we’re onto something!
Finally, another video to fall asleep to, thanks Scott!
Don't take this as a bad thing, you're one of the few things that can help me sleep, I find your videos very soothing and I always make sure I finish watching it the next day.
Keep going with the excellent content!
The chart at 2:10 is neat. I wouldn't mind seeing iterations of it in the future, particularly as each series' charts get fuller and fuller. It really clarifies things since there's so many Pokemon on the Yellow ranking now that it's hard to pick certain Pokemon out at a moment's notice.
"Hey Staryu, do you think you could beat a solo run of Yellow?"
"Shuriken!"
Puns aside, I like what you did with comparing the water types here. Have you considered doing dedicated videos like that? I don't know if they'll hold up, but it might be worth considering.
Yes sir!!!!! Hope vacation is treating you well Scott!!! Well deserved!
The tier list is beautiful, being so well-populated. You've got this whole process so refined over the years it is inspiring, excellent work.
Love the shout out to Jrose for shouting you out lol. You two are hands down my favorite poketubers!
Yaaaay! Seeing seel in the middle of all those other vid thumbnails is great! I really, reeeally, no joke, learned to love and appreciate the cuteness of its simplicity. You may have played a factor in it, too, so thank you for opening my eyes to my favorite pokemon! ❤
-Number 1 Seel fan
I watch these so much that get confused when i end up seeing someone else doing a normal run. Love the content
Perfect content for my flight today. Praised be to Scott for producing fire content.
Water content, actually
Yellow content technically.
…you know water content was also pretty good 👏
I enjoyed seeing your analysis about Water types and what they need for success to defeat Pokemon Yellow. It's cool that you've done enough of these that you can guess how well a Pokemon can perform before you've done it.
It's fun to speculate the outdated philosophy of first gen pokemon games, my hyperbolic take on moves and stone evolutions: the idea of stone evolutions was to bring a pokemon to it's final form, once it is ready. Barring exceptions (mainly Eevee), By the time you evolved your pokemon with a stone the assumption the devs had was that by the time you used one, you tried them out, and reached a point where you're ready to take your bond with your pokemon to the next level. They likely assumed that by the time you got around to buying a water stone for Staryu, you'd have tried out what Staryu had to offer.
...the flaw in this hyperbolic philosophy is not in the design nor the execution, but because it doesn't mesh with the discovery motifs of the first games - if the game was built in a way where you had transparency with movesets internally, and the NPCs told you about this clearly - I'd call it a clever mechanic... all I will say it thank goodness they made it more sympathetic ik later gens.
Gym Leader Matt shout-out for "highest density of mandatory trainers" line.
This was in fact a reference!
Really fun to see the top down analyses you can do with so much data, i love it. Reap what you've sown, Scott, reap what you've sown
21:51 that's awesome! I started watching Jrose11 a long while ago, and while the solo-format is obviously similar, you've done so much with focusing on the data side to fill an important niche.
It comes around full circle and the whole community wins!
100%.
One part of me would like to program it, other part simply love the adventure it expresses and the experimental value, haha. Also the time counter gives it the little spice it craves. Love your content 🥰
I really can't go back to watching other unnamed pokemon solo challenge youtubers anymore - next to you they feel like amateurs. Your level of analysis with the literal hundreds of runs and legitimate data, and actually bringing it up, makes this far more interesting to watch on a random Pokemon that I'd otherwise not think would be particularly interesting to see.
Other people have other things to offer. I have an advantage, my channel was able to grow large enough that I could reinvest the cash flow in support freeing up my time to develop the tools required to collect this data. Plus, the community has supported this effort with so much volunteer time. I’m really grateful to be here.
That said, I do feel that recently things have started to come together for me. The volume of runs complete is starting to give me deep insights that I just didn’t have 2 years ago. It’s exciting to be able to share it!
22:03
Update: Finished, and congratulations on 100 Yellow Playthroughs!
That intro giving context to the other water types was fantastic. Thanks for going thru that data
Great video Scott! Staryu was always one of my favorites as a kid, I loved how it was alien-esque but clearly based off an animal
Congrats Scott!
Aaaaaaaaaaay,, our Innocent Bysyander finally has fanart! Awesome job, Serena!
I have an idea for more blackout training.
With a pokemon with no access to a status move (like Satryu) you can blackout train until you're very close to defeating the Sandshrew. Then for subsequent attempts you can train in the forest until tackle runs out of PP and you start using struggle and damage yourself. When you get damaged a bit, head back to the lightyears trainer and OHKO both pokemon. Because of the way pokemon works, if you KO the Sandshrew and kill yourself, you will lose the battle.
I think this will only work good for slow growth rate pokemon with one normal move (Staryu and Magikarp are good cases) because depleting all of tackle for a medium-fast growth rate might just be enough training to beat Brock.
Been looking for something to chill and watch, thanks for the content 😄
You’re welcome!
Hi Scott. Long time fan, rare commenter. You have mentioned a number of times in your videos that one of your many ongoing quests is to improve your English. As an English teacher with over fourteen years' experience, I can tell you that a simple upgrade is to learn when to use less/least and when to use fewer/fewest. At the moment you are using less/least before all nouns, when you should actually be using fewer/fewest before count nouns and less/least before non-count nouns only. Non-count nouns are those that cannot be counted, e.g. health, PP, special defence etc. Count nouns are those that can be counted, e.g. three bosses, ten rare candies etc. Here are some examples:
I finished this fight with less PP than expected.
I passed through Mt Moon using the fewest possible steps.
I fought fewer optional trainers on route 14 than on my first playthrough.
I had the least confidence in this particular strategy.
I hope this helps you in your quest for grammatical optimisation - keep up the great work!
Shame Staryu can't use Minimise. I get the rules, but it's such a key feature of this species.
I would love to see a playthrough with Red's Eevee...
You mean the one that can evolve between his 3 evos? That could be interesting, wonder if there's a way to program an item to help switch evolutions
"I think gamefreak wanted you to feel like there was a tradeoff between either levelling up and getting the best moves for a pokemon or evolving them quickly for good stats"
mmm interesting idea gamefreak, might have worked if LITERALLY ANYTHING IN-GAME HAD EVER BOTHERED WITH THE BAREST INDICATION SUCH A TRADEOFF EXISTED
ooooooh, having the play the battle music vs Bruno is always a FeelsBadMan
33:03 I audibly gasped 😅🤣
Man, that Harden *really* came in clutch against the Vaporeon in the first run!
Gotta say, it's a shame Staryu doesn't start with Water Gun. Otherwise, the early game would be significantly better. Late game Staryu/Starmie is a beast. I came around to its prowess when watching BigLeagueMDB use it during the Gym Leader Challenge when he and his friends were playing through Pokémon Stadium.
Anyways, fantastic job, Scott and Team! And congrats on hitting triple digits!
Okay, I didn’t realize Scott had made his tier list with a LT. SURGE and BRUNO below F Tier
And I love it 😂
I love how Harden was finally effective for it’s primary use Defense
great video Scott always enjoy these veidos definitely making my days better thank you for all your hard work
Absolute clutch at the end 🙈❤️
29:19
Hiker's Machamp uses Submission. Critical Hit! Shuriken faints. Hiker levels up. What? HIKER is evolving! Hiker evolved into Elite Four Bruno.
I like how his name changed mid-video.
Love how at the end you briefly explained every 1st stage water mon's ranking while only saying "Seel is one of my least favorite pokemon." for Seel 😭
One of the things I appreciate about Sarina's art is that the Rockets' pokemon don't appear abused and, frankly, seem to enjoy a bit of the criminal lifestyle lol.
And I love how in the final analysis, Scott just dismisses Seel as his least favorite with no elaboration. 😂
I cant believe how close you are to the end of Yellow. What a journey!
Congrats on 100 rankings! Though I am a little sad, it's exciting to see us near the end of gen I!
Excellent video as always =)
Hey Scott, great video as always! I just wanted to say that I thought “this… is gonna be Staryu’s undoing” (around 20:30) was a good line, since I know you think about this stuff a lot.
Slight correction regarding Viridian Forest, there's only a couple Pokemon that are available at higher levels in that area in Yellow rather than Red or Blue, and it's not really that significant since they're not the big EXP yield Pokemon anyway. The big differences are Caterpie and Pidgey.
Caterpie can be found at levels 3-6 in Yellow, whereas they're found at levels 3-5 in Blue and just 3 in Red. Weedle can be found at levels 3-5 in Red and just 3 in Blue, whereas it doesn't appear at all in Yellow.
Pidgey is Yellow exclusive in this area and is found at levels 4, 6 and 8.
However, the cocoons, Metapod and Kakuna, are found more or less at the same levels throughout all three games, and these give the best EXP yields out of the encounters. Kakuna is found in Red at levels 4-6 and in Blue at level 4, Metapod is found in blue at levels 4-6, in Red at level 4, and in Yellow at levels 4 and 6.
The other even remotely noteworthy encounter in Viridian Forest is the "super rare" encounter, that being Pikachu at levels 3-5 in Red and Blue with a 5% chance, and the 1% chance of encountering a Pidgeotto at level 9 in Yellow. Technically the Pidgeotto would have the best EXP yields but it's so rare that you're probably not going to encounter it without going out of your way to do so. This 1% Pidgeotto encounter is an obvious reference to Ash's Pidgeotto.
The level 6 and 8 Pidgey really help when grinding. Plus if you are doing it for along time Pidgeotto do end up appearing. It's also worth noting, that while the levels are better in Yellow, even if only slightly so due to the Pidgey, the major factor making the forest better is the fact you cannot be poisoned. Red/Blue force many trips back the center where as Yellow doesn't.
Not sure why Scott didn't use the super-effective Ice Beam against the Grass type Venomoth. Maybe he forgot its type during the playthrough? Nah, Scott could *never* make such a mistake. He was probably banking on that special drop.
Congrats on 100 pokemon!
Congrats on the big 100! Going to be a depressing day when 151 is finished
There's still Red, and Blue... and Green..............
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon we will start offering you therapy hugs if that's the case
Wow your first play-through Lt. surge and bruno clearly are sick of your trash talk.
Lol, true. But what they gonna do about it? Use and x-item? ;p
"The electric grass type" then you used psychic instead of ice beam?
Love your stuff keep being awesome.
Great video dude!
Staryu is... interesting. It spends literally 20% of its time beating Brock then annihilates the rest of the game until Route 9, stalls slightly, goes back to annihilation. That starting movepool hurts... wow. Great runs.
29?! Scott's on fire with these playthroughs (or water, one could say)
“Oh God, Scott, why did you run staryu 29 times?!” -my first reaction
Just a point about a more powerful Resisted Special hit Vs a weaker neutral Physical hit ...
Is ALSO taking into consideration the opposing Pokemon's Special stat. It still may be more beneficial to attack with a lower effective power move, as it intersects with their lower defence stat.
I imagine it'll be percentile.. maybe 1-2% difference. But it might take a 3 Hit to a 2 hit
It's so fitting that you gave a shout out to Jrose and then minutes later forgot to fight Erika
It's always an interesting video when Bruno and Surge get wins lol
Yellow is the Pokémon GOAT.
For those that are wondering:
The rival team with Jolteon is easier for a water type, since he will not have a Magneton.
Debatable. Any Water type with no badge boosting options will likely struggle more with Jolteon being faster (see Seel or Psyduck), and Thunder, while less accurate, would hit harder, especially with Jolteon’s high crit rate.
How many pokemon have badge boosting moves available to them? I think it's at least 75% of the entire Kanto roster.
So the rule is that Jolteon is easier to face than Magneton, and there would logically be exceptions to the rule.
The little guy did better than I thought.
I'm not sure if this has been addressed at some point but it would be nice to have some data from your overworld movement "mistakes". You've made some incredible overlays but I'd like to see the number of wall hits as they are bound to happen when playin at 4x speed. Some stairs or narrow ways are harder to track how many time you miss them but i think they still make up some time in every playthrough. If you already had this kind of data it would also propably show your progression as a more accurate player :) Anyway, great work and thank you for these videos :3
If you watch my live streams I show a “bonk” counter there which approximates the type of data you’re looking for.
Just doing my part to feed the algorithm.
In my opinion staryu evolution starmie is one of my favorite gen1 pokemon good stat fast hit hard great choice of movepol , starmie even on most fan games where dificulty is much higher then from orginal games is still awesome. It is one of this pokemon i like to get to my team even after like 20 yers of playing pokemon😂
hey just wanted to suggest finding a more colourblind-friendly way of highlighting the Pokémon in the tier list. I know all colourblind people are different but I found it really hard to notice the black and white vs colour Pokémon.
(PS it’s my first time I’m commenting on your vids and i have to say you’re my favourite Pokémon content creator on RUclips, your attention to detail really appeals to the mathematician in me)
Yup. Agreed, even without colour blindness this approach didn’t really do it for me. We’ll do a different approach next time.s
Would like the bit at the start comparing similar pokemon going forward when there's enough data for it
12:08 you could say that machop has a sassy nature 😂
Here's to number 100! And to the more than likely 200 runs with the remaining 51 pokemon left to go, judging by how you like to do things
When it comes to blackout training against the lightspeed trainer, if you're starting to get close to defeating his Sandshrew but need more exp, could you diversify your training a bit and pre-damage your pokemon with some training in Viridian Forest before each fight? Or would trying to do a but of both end up costing even more time?
Edit: Or you know I could WAIT till I watch the second playthrough before commenting
it really amazes me that after 100 pokemon on the tier list the top pokemon is victreebel
Victreebel is so good in gen1
No, you're incredible!
Your videos are so good😊
Love the Jrose shoutout!
"He never desorves any respect"
imagine if only there wasn't that npc blocking you from going to Route 3 before Brock: you could get trainer exp while clearing the road for later and use that Watergun TM if you still need coverage for Brock. kinda like in gen3 you train around the city before Roxanne. Just thinking in terms of event Flags here but that npc could be a Hiker blocking you in the middle of mt. moon first floor, let's say after you can get Watergun, Rare Candy and that Escape Rope to easily go back to Pewter to fight the gym :)
Yup. If he was blocking a ladder inside Mt Moon everything would change.
1:30 in the am? Can’t sleep? I open? I thought.
I just started a playthrough of pokemon Crystal clear and its a 10/10 wonderful rom hack.. it would be cool as hell to see you try a challenge run through a rom hack like legacy yellow or liquid crystal.. i just finished radical red and the base version of that hack is a challenge run omg.. i got clapped so many times
I did Legacy Yellow with only Pikachu.
Nice number of subs 👌🏻
LETS GOOOOOO!!!
100 pokemon done!! Talk about a sticky situation!!!!
just want to point out that exploud isnt in the hoenn playlist. ill probably put this on the next video in the event this is not fixed by then. i would imagine it fits between crawdaunt and gardevoir.
I need to do a better job of curating the playlists.
A collab between you and Jrose would be wild. Great video!
That’d be very fun.
Thank you GOAT
Average thoroughness of a scott’s thoughts playthrough
(Seriously though 29 is insane can’t wait to see what this is about)
29 total playthrough with all first-stage water mons.
I always assumed staryu was psychic when i was younger
In regards to the swift vs Sabrina could you not teach swift over ice beam and then teach blizzard over it? Tired so may have missed something but just a thought. Great video as usual!
Yes, but you don't want to teach Blizzard before Lorelei and you need and Ice-type move for Rival6's Exeggcute, unless you want to just reset everytime it chooses Stun Spore.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon ah makes sense! Keep up the great work!
Oh nooo. Just the title already brings concern, and I do remember a lot of not so great things about Staryu's moveset and growth rate so I am guessing it has to do something with those things.
Also droooopppeeed my ballssss.
A Star-yu are
Love the pun.
@@SoraDonaldGoofy99 omg thank you
Maybe you could have stick with Bubblebeam for a while, change it for swift against Sabrina and then learn surf. I guess there are some fights you would lose time with some 2 hits but maybe it is faster. The most problematic foes in that space can be handled with psiquic and Ice beam, like the rocket trainers , Koga, and I dont know the ranges you have agains Blaine, but maybe are not that bad.