Goonswarm Federation. Is it still worth in 2024 joining?
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
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Many have asked me after the Horde video, if I could do a review of Goons. Surprisingly, I received an invitation from CEO Aher Elias himself, granting me the freedom to record and film everything while providing an honest impression. That's exactly what I aimed for: bold, critical, and unbridled. Of course, they knew I was coming, but I was well-prepared :-) I believe the result is a good and objective review that can offer some insight to new players or those wanting to go someday into null. As always, the video doesn't claim to be perfect, and it's also as always only my perspective.
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Good early experience review. You are right that nowadays there are fewer differences among nullsec groups. However, as someone with
2+ years first in Horde and then in Goons I found both the Horde and Goons videos lacking. It is unfair to you to expect more detail
and depth from a short-term review so here are some of the biggest differences in my experience:
1.- Moments.
Asher is exactly right in pointing out the importance of moments in Eve. Both organizations provide epic moments for the story of the individual player but Goons is much better at it. The choices that Goon leaders through time have made consistently lead to large epic stories that fill a unique mythology in gaming. The military moments from m2 to the fall of bob are well documented but there are myriad industrial, financial, diplomatic, political and espionage plots too. There is no facet of gameplay that has not been used to further the sovereign goals of the Imperium and its members.
I wish you had seen Delve before the war. A true empire pumping at its cenit. The largest and most sophisticated player economy attached to an enormous and professional military. Together capable of violently imposing the will of the state on our enemies. Your review comes essentially at what is London in the 1950s for Goons. A victorious but wounded state renewing its leadership and how it thinks of itself.
It does not help that CCP decided through scarcity that the tools of sovereignty we rely and wish for are unavailable.
Horde does (copies) some of those things too mind you, but it is far worse at distributing those experiences to its members due to the points I mention below.
2.- Source and distribution of power.
Fundamentally power in Horde flows down from leadership to the membership. It is a much more hierarchical society. Goons are not completely bottom up either but on relative terms corp CEOs, SIG leaders and recognized useful members are much more powerful and trusted than in Horde.
This is primarily due to the flow of money. Historically in PL/NC/Horde money flows into the organization not through the members but through
renting, the TTT and the AT. All are forms of top down income leaving a small elitist cadre of people who do not much care for sovereignty
gameplay in charge. This leads to misaligned interest between leadership and members and therefore choices that result in poorer moments and stories than Goons.
3.- Trust.
In order to compete with Goons, PL copied karmafleet and brave and created Horde with a more open style of membership. This accessible PvP
you Monica enjoy so much. Then, it went beyond that and made Horde Inc completely open. This only furthers the stratification problem of Horde and it once again leads to greater distance from leadership to membership.
Goons are much more committed to a united idea of empire and doing good by our brothers in arms. It requires more verification processes and that trust be distributed more evenly even when you get burned (Jay) but this is an institutional cost we gladly afford.
Admittedly the trust difference is harder to ascertain without having been in Horde recently. It may have changed.
3.- Organization.
Finally, another big difference between the space alliances is the function of the specialized groups within. Logistics, coord, black hand, gsisk, theta, delta, cd etc. They are always driving the meta. Again Horde does have some of this but it is just not as good. Horde often understaffs its equivalent orgs purposefully because it does not trust its members enough. This not only means there often are single point of failures in the institution but that the task is not trusted to be completed right so it must be checked again. I could point out many examples but suffice to say that during my time in Horde Gobbins' complaints of having to micromanage were constant.
On the Goon side I will give you one example. During the last big war, the military coordination group, coord, not only kept but surpassed the operational tempo of all Horde, Test, FRT, Brave and the rest. This was incredible to watch. It speaks to the quality of the general staff that in a war where Goons were overwhelmingly outnumbered 3 to 1 the military managed to not be overrun and retain the initiative with ops like enho or m-2.
Sorry for the wall of text. Looking forward to more of your videos.
I am super thankful for your feedback and the ad ons. I like the wall of text, because you give me important Feedback....Feedback is always a chance !! It's impossible for me to cover everything comprehensively, and it was never my intention to imply that Team "A" is better than Team "B", or that team "C" stands out as the best, surpassing both "A" and "B"...
I'll join in thanking for the wall as well. I much more prefer well worded, expanded reasoning/opinion than short, conclusive statements that don't offer any insight at all.
Eloquent... True
I miss Alex. Goonswarm is not the same without him. The golden days are behind us now.
This was a fun watch. Thank you for that.
As a Goon and EVE player since 2007 ( on and off ), I do miss the "bad guys" of EVE sticker. Simply for RP reasons. But I will say overall, if you do make the cut, it is a good place to be.
EVE has changed a lot and not just mechanics of the game, we as players grew up. We are mostly more mature and the overall ( not just Goons, game wide ) culture has changed. And that is a good thing. Player base is, arguably, less fun but more wellcoming overall.
To PH members - see you on grid everyone. Win or lose, enjoy the pew.
2007, thats a long time tbh !
when was the last time u didnt steal stuff? thief
Goon here, I LOVED THIS VIDEO. Your editing is incredible. Keep up these awesome videos love them!
Thank you will try...but that editing is intense...but will do it from time to time. When something.
I've only listened for first 5 minutes so far but great intro and I look forward to hearing more
Been in Goons since 2006 and it's had ups & downs but always the best place to call home in EVE.
are you a part of 4s?
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb No, I'm a Theta industrial Goon for the most part. I fly logistics in fleets and used to do logistic in GSOL.
@@tarrif important part in every fleet
@@tarrif Theta squad best squad! $$$$
Digging these alliance review videos - good stuff!
lot of work...will do so :-)
I'm not surprised by the lengthy application process for the professionalism in pvp aspect mentioned in the video and the simple fact of Goons being famous/infamous for their espionage gameplay tactics and paranoia that comes with that. Not a negative comment by any means. Goonswarm history is loaded with not only their infiltrations but also those defecting to them from other alliances.
This is turning in to a great series! The effort to give a good quality review of these alliances IS SO NEEDED for the community as a whole! This is exactly what we need to inform and engage the new pilots coming in to the game as the most common question on reddit has to be "what corp/alliance should I join?!
Thank you for your work!! and please consider adding "Kitchen Sinkhole" to what I assume is a a rapidly expanding list of alliance you would consider reviewing :)
🙂Wll thank you. But who is "Kitchen Sinkhole" ??
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb they are one of the few… semi-newbie accepting corps in wormhole space
@@MifuneSwordGod WH space is not my Space tbh.. i need to know who is in local...
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb haha… d-scan is all ya need
@@MifuneSwordGod That's her Solo playstyle talking - I too prefer local to know my enemies. D-scan is plenty if you only want to survive. But to find the good fights as a loner, every bit of information helps. Just knowing whether potential targets fly solo or exclusively in gangs can be huge... Knowing their preferred fits is only secondary for me at least.
I don't mind unfavorable odds, but I genuinely hate not knowing my odds at all.
Overall, a very fair and comprehensive review!
I have one criticism: Horde headshots Goonswarm FCs as well. Tetrakill in particular is headshot every other fleet, but this was not mentioned in your Horde video.
Sure maybe. In my time i did not saw any headshots from horde...so as always: my point of view.
I dont understand this complain about focusing FC.You fly to wreck
Havoc you take out fc fleet falls apart.This new modern fair fight bullshit.Its a war even if its not in real.You like hugd and pink unicorns you stay in emlire with carebears
i was a goon for 4 years before 2019 and i had different experience when it came to getting in. the need for 3rd party software was there back then aswell but was doable. i got accepted within a day. mentality wise , you make a mistake and you will get shit on but then they all help out when they can, big brother esk style. loved it. left because i was not a fan of the time dilation fights in capitals. other then that it was the best allliance i had been in for 6 years of my eve life. now i found a highsec corp, which is the right place for me at this time in my eve life. i do hope to go back to null and goons one day... great video btw keep it up
thank you ! i will 🙂
we will be waiting
Nice video! I used to be part of Goons Karma years ago and I needed like 10 chrome tabs open when playing, it was horrible! There was a select few members that made the game fun though
I liked the editing! As someone who has been in both alliances, both videos seem to be pretty fair reviews for someone who is new to nullsec
like it too - a lot of work tbh
Editing is amazing
@@MA-uy7iu 🙂
I know the goons in this video, the recruiters and FC's in goons treat every new player like this. I had frequent check-ins from recruiters in my first couple of weeks on goons and older members inviting me on fleets. I am not in 4S.
Landed in MJ5, set as home, was in a 600-person fleet battle 30 minutes later. Pandemic is great at getting you started. The basic corp though does seem rather hollow, no idea where or how to plug in and find people to just chill with. Almost makes me want to dip and go find a small wh group or something.
I remember the Goons being around back in '06 - '09. So that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. A long time. Glad to know that they are still around.
Then again, they sound like they're more like signing up for a job. I just want to play. Thank you for the insight.
When I used to play eve, more than a decade ago, the corps did take care of their pilots. Helped with getting set up, flying in assets and getting isk farming set up, jump gate networks. The whole lot.
I was even a minor FC by the time I left the game.
On an Alliance front they helped train their pilots in blob combat etc.
So the helpfulness isn’t exactly weird to me.
I applied to karma and got in very quickly. I gave a very detailed account of my history in eve from 2007. I liked the scrutiny and the time that was made for acceptance.
thats cool !
This is another great vid, if you have the time and inclination please try Brave next, my favourite alliance in EvE. It has a well used standing fleet, plenty of help for new players and well organised.
A lot of ppl said Brave is very cool....hmmm will put it on my list for some day. Who´s Braves CEO?
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb Jinx De Caire is the main man. I’m going to take a screen shot of your reply and forward on to our diplos. Not sure if they’ll do anything, never had to speak to them before. Hopefully it goes somewhere.
I very much enjoyed the bit about API/ESI and the 1990's IT infrastructure.
hey thx
Awesome, lots of respect for doing this!
Thank you.
Pretty balanced commentary... i have recently joined Goons, and as a filthy casual (45 or so fleets last month), im lovin it. Previously was a solo FW and WH dude. Heaps of PVP opportunities with Goon Mob, and solid management support. Always previously shied away cos "Grrr Goons Culture" but TBH its been awesome! Entirely not the shitfight i expected 🙂. oh yeah, IT requirements little bit complex ... lot of 3rdP stuff, but im old and i managed, so not that bad.
For context, AUTZ so quite difficult to find content, Goons have delivered...
Very interesting perspective. It's nice to be in the imperium but i'm glad i'm not in goonswarm federation because of all them requirements you mentioned, i like the absolute freedom the alliance i'm in gives me. That said, another big downside of goons, and well horde too, is that I'm not happy with the distances I have to travel for content, but the safety the blue croissant offers for my ratting, mining, exploration and building activities is very nice. The SEA ending means feyth and omist are back on the menu, and I'm happy, skirmishing with the mohist, hold my probs and the zergs, they're a nice bunch of guys. Most horde guys and frat guys that come visit in Paragon and Eso are also quite chill, it's nothing but fun with them. I hold no resentment whatsoever against them, and i thank them for coming all the way to us from time to time.
agree...i think eve went boring without Horde/Goons, right?
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb yes, i think both blocks bring interesting opportunities and challenges, i mean, who else can make that much tidi? But they're both too big to be actually top level kek. I think eve would benefit from more groups gaining some of their share of power and toss it around a little, and not be like now that groups part of the collapse of fire or rekkingcrew just folding into or aligning with the goons or horse, or how horde and test are with frat, which is a sad state of affairs. And CCP could actually do something to make carrier fights great again... XD
In Delve content comes to you all the time, i might have to move a few jumps out our home system to fight off some people filamenting in or coming trough a WH, more then enough pvp content for me at least.
I really like the format of these videos they are a monumental effort, well done! I would add some observations from someone who has spent a number of years in nullsec
A requirement of 3 fleets per month is hardly a stringent requirement when any one of those fleets could be as little as 15 minutes. Sure that could be a lot for people that don't play often but I don't know that I would call it a stringent requirement, plus it's per character so putting three characters in one 15 minute fleet meets the requirement for the month.
I also think you missed things like Horde severely limiting access to space for characters that haven't gone through the ESI / API check process, they cannot join their pankrab fleets etc. Goons do not limit a player in any way like this, any player can do anything in any blue space. I know you mention this in your Horde video but it's not mentioned here as context for people who may only watch one video without the other.
You appear to have come into the assessment with a preconception that Goons headshot enemy FCs. Where did this preconception come from? As someone who has lived in nullsec for over 10 years this has been a mechanic used by all sides, Flag Cruisers (Monitors) were introduced 100% to counter this mechanic and until CCP introduce a Frigate / Destroyer variant then this will continue to be the case. In my experience PL and PH are the worst for attempting headshots at the outset of most engagements. Goons do it from time to time but not nearly as often as horde.
I would also suggest that joining a large alliance and then attempting to do a whole bunch of things solo is not really in the spirit of the point of the video. I get that people knew you were coming and may have treated you differently but I think that's more or less unavoidable. You could have easily joined fleets without people noticing you were there if you're not so overt with your presence.
yes thats true you can handle that in 1 day easy...i call it a stringent requirement because its a deal breaker: means if you dont match it you will be out
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb thats not really true, maybe for "elite" corps it is, but its mostly only handled at a corp level, rather then alliance, and at least for the corp im in, its pretty lax, we def expect it, but we won't insta kick you if you fail it, and i can assure you, the alliance does not look at each player
@@jannloneke8366 yes you are right. it belongs for sure for the pvp related corps.
Man, I remember when Goons were the ones everyone else was doing the extreme background checks for, and they were the ones taking anyone with a pulse for more numbers.
The fleet participation of 5 fleets can easily be achieved in a weekend. If you're lucky, you can accomplish this in one evening with home defense fleets.
Also in Horde. Easy
Yes,. but I think Ami doens't like the PAP requirement at all, period. Which is a fair view point I think. However, I am surprised that 4S has PAP requirements at all. Technically, goons/Imperium doesn't have a PAP requirement, its the individual corps that create and enforce it (usually because they want to keep their own players active in game). My corp as an example requires 3 PAP's per month, but to my knowledge, there are corps that do not require PAPS at all, and thats allowed cos Goons doesn't actually require them either.
@@somebodyintheworld5036 yes. i dont think its a problem for the players...but youre on the watchlist and you need to go for it.
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb that's what not undocking for 4 weeks straight can get you
Fleet participation requirements make me think of the old Dragon Points system used by guilds in other games to determine who gets what loot or gets to even come along on the dungeon run.
Ich weiß noch als man früher bei MMORPG Gilden richtige Bewerbungen im Forum schreiben musste, weil die mit erwachsenen spielen wollten und nicht mit Kindern. Heute wird man im Voice ausgefragt, aber wenigstens erkennt man an der Stimme wer am anderen Ende sitzt.
i am in the imperium but not goonswarm specifically. i feel this is a great place to be because we dont have the same fleet participaton requirements but get all the benefits of having access to delve. the criticism of the long and tedius IT setup is valid for sure, but at least once its set up, its done.
once its set up its done. thats for sure true. i think its in general a big problem that you need so many 3rd party software. How many are out there? Mumble, Discord, Pathfinder, Auth, Teamspeak, ZKill, Forums, Pidgin, IS Boxer, Eve HR, dScan, GateCamp Check, eve metro, jita kalender and and and (...)
@@Redishere will put that on the list 🙂
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb You only really need 2 of those things, 3 if you count the forums for SRP, pidgin and mumble. Plenty of people never post or use the forums and the rest really have nothing to do with being in goons at all just eve in general. I dont even know what a couple of them are and ive been playing eve for over a decade lol
@@matahashisatoa Certainly, I wanted to embrace the full experience, and when the recruiters asked me to follow these exact steps, I didn't want to make any exceptions. The feedback process with the goons should not mean "you only need 3 of those" but rather take opportunity to critically question existing processes. If I were CEO, I would survey my players online. Such a survey can be set up in 2 minutes. Involving players in decisions is an extremely good process for player engagement.
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb
in my memories only 3 set up in Goonswarm :x The Forum , Mumble and Jabber that's all (depends on the corp discord)
It was never boring with The Mittani. Space needs salt
yes !
It doesn't need sexual harrasment. Him leaving is good for everyone.
always just saw him a a giant space asshole, and kicking him down a peg was why I was so glad to be part of WWB2 against goons. Now with himù gone.. might even consider being a goon if I pick the game back up (left for a variety of reason, first the end of the war that sounded like our side just throwing the towel instead of being actually defeated, and more personnal thing like feeling I'd never get any good use out of the vindicator I basically spent my whole playtime skilling up for and affording as my endgame goal), but if I do come back since my old corp is dead.. I may consider goons, which was unthinkable to me with mittens still around.
@@thorveim1174 if you come back and if you want to join goons again - apply to "4s corporation". Cool guys there.
the channel is so you can convo those people directly
love the vid, currently returning to eve and making my own decision. absolutely hate putting mobile msg sounds in videos though, confused everyone :D
No matter what ill always feel like smaller groups and alliances with under 500 members make more wholesome moments and really allow you to impact the group dramatically if you really try. Not saying its impossible in big groups; just much more difficult and stuff. No hate though, great video 👏
thank you !
Very nice video as always. Brave is a really cool corp in my humble opinion, very easy to get into, people are cool, and very few rules. I'm always doing my own thing.
Arent Brave a part of goons now???
@@MA-uy7iu they are imperium members but not part of goonswarm federation
never was in BRAVE.....but a lot of ppl telling me the same
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb, great vid really enjoyed it. I recently joined brave on recommendation of youtuber @Aceface and have genuinely enjoyed the freedom. It's great for a single character account. Link for reference:
ruclips.net/video/K4PJ7vrT6jg/видео.htmlsi=hnHEbCiF2q51u3LI
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb I'm currently enquiring if we can offer the same sort of deal Asher gave you for brave - personally I'd love to hear your thoughts. If things go well I'll be in touch
as an old bittervet i ended up coming back yesterday -because i hate myself- because flying with karmafleet and goons is some of the best fun you can have in any game, and we have a lot of helpful people in corp/alliance.
Welcome back, and yes Karmafleet is a great place to be.
Thanks for the great review
Just a couple of points id like everyone to know incase they are thinking of joining
1 4S are a pretty strict corp but not all corps in goons have the same participation rules
2 In General its very easy to meet pap requirements i mean if you are in a null sec corp in the first place you probably like to pvp anyway right? Also there is a sig
called locust fleet which is for mining you also get paps for this as it is an import industrial arm of the organisation.
3 What you said about all the forums and things you have to sign up for....yeah i agree completely but as you said most medium to large alliances in eve not just null sec have these and you only have to do it once and its done.
4 I don't think just pvp orientated people would enjoy goonswam there is a place here for everyone you just have to find the right corp there are quite a few industry heavy corps in goonswarm and the market here has massive opportunities for anyone interested in trade although it is true everyone is expected to join at least a few fleets per week but you will find the same to be true in any null or lo sec alliance.
That's all, overall a great and honest review and I hope you enjoyed your time with us maybe someday you'll come back and stay for good :-)
That's true, but as a PvP player, I naturally only see things through a PvP lens. There's a lot more to do, that's right.
ochh c'mon we have rl jobs ! Do you really want to be control in your free time, in the game that is paid by your rl job money xD c'mon man its a joke
Thank you for making a video about my discord chat and your feedback. I want to correct some inaccuracies:
- You failed to reference how cool my Slithery Little Sneaky Snake hat is on my discord image
- Within 4S, all members proudly wear the 4S badge on our suit pockets not above it and on the back of our suits it says 4S Is Recruiting, always in capitals.
- There is no policy for you to greet me in a certain way but when we chat on mumble but, I would appreciate you greeting me by saying, I’m a snake, a slithery little sneaky snake
haha i love that :-) If i need you some day with your blobs down in Kubinen i hope YOU WILL BE THERE !
~ 8:00 - "Can leadership really change, if old members remain?"
Yes, absolutely. Leadership culture is not so much the *people* in the leadership, as it is the relationship dynamics between them all. It's a social engineering thing before it is an individual personality thing, if that makes sense. This distinction is important, because it allows you to see the dynamics to their fullest. It allows you to see when a particular personality has skewed the "center of mass" of all the dynamics towards themselves, as well as when other personalities within that web of dynamics are too weak to anchor the web *against* being pulled in any one direction by just one individual, or a small group of individuals.
And that's where the "secret" to the answer for your question lies: What happens when you remove that one element (person), who skewed the entire web of relationships towards themselves, made themselves the center in an ultimately toxic way? Well, suddenly the weaker personalities don't have their priorities forcibly shifted anymore, and they'll (hopefully - depends on their individual psychology) do their jobs free of undue influence. The entire web of relationship/authority dynamics shifts with the absence of that one personality (this was a "cult of personality", essentially), the very vibe of the culture shifts to something new, even though most of the old leadership's still there.
There's good things and bad things about having these "cogs", these weaker personalities around - they provide stability during political upheavals in a way that strong personalities cannot. Weaker personalities don't just lose their skills, their ability to perform their job, after all, and they tend to not be so interested in applying power over other people. They just want to have their place, and do their job, and anything beyond that doesn't really matter. They'll go wherever the wind blows (which is the trait that makes it impossible for them to anchor the relationship dynamics gainst powerful personalities, even if it is an advantage in other ways), and keep working in the background, while others "duke it out." Strong personalities instead tend to get distracted by power struggles and invest their energies in disruptive strategies. They'll fight a political war before they do their job.
So, yes. A change in leadership culture requires only that the center of mass be disappeared. Unless the old center of mass still has an in, still has sway with elements of the old leadership. But that's probably less likely in EVE Online than it is in real life, since it's a lot harder to pressure or manipulate somebody in a setting where they can just...ghost you.
the UI maybe shit but Eve still has one of the smartest player bases anywhere.
@@tehKap0w XD
great narrative voice.. very sexy accent whilst speaking yr second language imo. yr eve content is quite good too, lol
thank you
Hey i was a recruiter in a goon corp (left goons/game after Asher took over). And yes this is part of the regular recruitment process. If you specifically choose to skip the standard entry level corp - ie Karmafleet - and instead go for one of the big name or highly specialized corps (especially one of the corps that make blops or high value big plays), the requirements get a lot steeper. And its also a pretty standard practice to make people wait. A lot. In essence if you are a alliance hopper or a child, you will tend to have very little to no patience, so in the long run this simply filtrates these people away as they are not a good match for us.
"And its also a pretty standard practice to make people wait. A lot." Yes, exactly, I have seen it and I personally consider it a negative point. If Karma presents their Corp as a highly professional one to the eve world, then the issue of recruitment and specifically the professional handling of applicants should be a matter of course.
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb I got accepted into karma fleet within 2 days, maybe they sped up their process because of your video lol
@@ginjaedgy49 thats cool, yes they also changed the ingame chan. i like that... a outsuide view is always nice for improvement
As a goon, i must admit horde applications are streamlined, usually do it every couple of weeks as i burn through awok chars. Keep up good work Horde!
Interesting video, hope you enjoyed your time in Goons.
yes it was very cool time there
With 16 characters online in that channel, there's a good chance that there were only a handful of people logged in on several alts and were just afk. It's possible I suppose, but unlikely that they saw the chat and just ignored it
If you want to be part of GS it's best you join the jabber fleet announcements I hope you got that installed and running as that's the only way you'll know there's a fleet happening. It's not opsec as it's open to KarmaFleet members which is open to well apply and find out. If you have a particular interest or speciality there may be an existing SIG or you could do a few with volunteers and then put your case forward for an SIG and a budget to get more people interested.
I haven't been in many other alliances so I don't know what's normal or not these days. I look forward to watching your takes having re-joined EvE after more than five years.
Playing is sadly more limited than I want and expected but hopefully soon.
LITTLE BEES FOR LIFE!!! THE IMPERIUM WILL NEVER FALL!
Never is a very long time.
@@Caviar_Liberta we fall when eve falls
Nice vid. I will stay in Brave. Happy there for a long time 😉
a lot of ppl are very pleased inside brave....wondering why
a lot of those toons crying about no feed back are believed to be spais who were dropped all together in the recruitment process
Ive been in goons since 2018 and as u say now is pretty chill moment to be a goons, also I am in a small hispanic corp (Rekium for anybody intested) we always teach pvp to people in our fleets to defend delve and we give a fast response to recruit you:)
thats cool !
"Brightest candle on the cake" I lol'd
"not" the :-)
i understand only trainstation! xD
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb
but this is not the yellow of the egg ;)
😂😂😂
In my experience with GOON fleets, they only head shot FCs that are known to try to head shot regularly. Players like Zer0Musky and Zigam will always be head shot in Imperium space because that is their go to strategy.
Having been a member of Goons for only 7 months I have to say that I find your view a little....biased/skewed. My entree into Goons was greased by previous communications, but was overall simple. Granted, there are PAP requirements, but they are set by individual CEOs and often can be fulfilled in a single night of spamming fleets. Other than that I am free to be my own toon and do what I damned well please without the feeling I need to do more to fit in. 4S and karma fleet are huge corps that have different requirements than my own Corp. Plus, If I am not PVP focused I can support in other ways, Locust fleets, or other SIGs provide just as much participation credit. I have no real experience with Horde other than being shot at. I can't speak for them, but I know that the Hordelings that come over to us are inevitably happier in their games. :)
that said, I does answer the question in the MOTD ;) so you could say that your question was answered immediately and you infact did not wait hours - also yes, in general as an ex recruitment member of KF we have moved towards discord as a better way to communicate (thus why the motd encourages you to join the discord) and you likely would have waited ~ max 15mins for a response edit: i did reply to your question, but i think it might have been filtered for some reason, not to sure :)
Yes, I know that, of course. And I was on Karma Fleet Discord. People there also asked how long the waiting period is. And the answer was? They send them a video... I believe there was a cat or something in it... with a message that was something like "It takes as long as it takes." But I'm happy to ask again here: How long does it typically take?
every application is different done by a team of volunteers who get on average 30 applicants a day - the only correct answer is as long as it takes there are too many variables to give any other answer and people are in general unwilling to be reasonable from experience if you tell them it'll be a week and you hit 8 days you then have to deal with someone throwing a temper tanrum, the truth of the matter is the wait more often and not shows peoples true colours more than any back ground check, watching people flip out and abuse people because they waited 2 days is just not a person we want in our group, and not someone i want to fly with.@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb
hmm i thought i hit enter on my response to this so it may show up twice - but the only correct answer is 'as long as it takes' there are too many variables to give any other response, its done by a team of volunteers who get on average 30 applicants a day, many of what range from terrible spys who very poorly hide it, to characters who have literally over 100 characters, and from experience if you tell someone it will take around a week, then hit the 8th day, they are there throwing a temper tantrum because they waited too long and they were told a week, more often than not.. the wait shows peoples true colours more than any background check and the ONLY requirement of KF is dont be a dick..
as for no communication, again from experience people find they dont have communication when they dont get the answer they want to hear, if you post in KF discord now, you'll get a response thats communication, if you post in there how long on my app, and get told as long as it takes, people think they didnt get communication.@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb It depends on a lot of factors, but there's nobody in our queue right now that has been waiting more than 7 days, and the longest person waiting has not replied to requests for clarification on parts of their application, and that's the only hold up. We send the videos because 99% of the process is explained there, and most questions can be answered instantly, rather than waiting for someone to respond directly. That being said, the are hundreds of people active in the discord and an entire recruitment team of more than 15 people who are available 24/7, in every time zone. Generally speaking, if you're waiting for more than a week, it's because you didn't add all your characters to the API, you didn't respond to questions from the recruiter, or you're not getting in because of a security concern.
@@TheBriscRubal Great, that helps people understand it better. I also think Karma has a high workload when it comes to applications, at least from what I read in the Karma Discord about all the new people coming in...
I hope you enjoyed your time. Best of luck out there capsuleer!
i did :-) still there.
Playing in Horde, I actually like our "political" war with the Goons and I do enjoy their recruitment policy Goons have being a but more selective.
Regarding the headshotting, I've seen it happen on both sides, so its not a Goon thing or a Horde thing, but an FC mood thing (at least it seems). There is absolutely some "gamer words" in local thrown by both sides, and both sides employ some annoying fleet warp harpy tactics that often encourages the headshot.
Other than that - the little war we are having is great content. Much respect to the goons and their FCs that continue to drive content for all of us.
i have a major respect for Goons over all
Goonwarm... gotta love this headline ^^
ohhh i see...its late here in germany ;-)
changed :-) thx...
That change came quickly 😉
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb Ich weiß! Top Video, wie immer! o7
@@EbizzerHH danke für den hinweis...das wäre mir echt nicht aufgefallen und könnte auch bei vielen "falsch ausgelegt" werden. du sitzt bei solchen videos immer extrem zwischen den stühlen. man kann eigentlich nur verlieren :-)
It wasn't like that in 2019. I was only in horde a short amount of time and was called everything, but a nice guy by quite a few Goons and I was only applying to join.
people can be assholes man but there is a clear history of this on both sides of the fence not just goons
Pretty sure its like 3 fleet participations per month.
Some fleets last about 15-20 mins so they paps fill up pretty much.
Can be in standing fleet for an hour or 2 and pretty much get the required paps, and when in a mining fleet for 6 hours+ well you have enough for a long time
My takeaway from this is...
Goons = mad cause bad
Fleet participation is mandatory in many corps, but lets be real: I you don't have the time to join 3-5 fleets a month, stop playing eve and come back if you take it serious 😉There are many many many many many ... corps in Goons with very different approaches to recruitment and requirements. For every language and playstyle a corp exists, the only hard thing is to find the one that fits best for you. And yes, i'm also a recruiter for a german corp called Balanced Unity (BALA) and we are much smaller it's more about the players reallife character and social factors to fit into our corp. And we try to answer as fast a possible in chats, but we don't play eve full time, we also have a reallife, where we have make real money for things like food ;) I for myself have a look in the chats, if someone else pokes me that someone asked a question or every hour or so, if i'm working homeoffice 😀
"I you don't have the time to join 3-5 fleets a month, stop playing eve and come back if you take it serious". Yes ofc. As i said. If you like that, go for it. 3-5 Fleets you can make in one day.
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb Doing 5 fleets in a month is doable. for everyone.
Horde is free to join. 🎉
I thought you were falling into the Goons trap, making it a "oh, how great are the Goons" after the Horde video was also critical in some points. Well done! I find it fair for both sides.
you can only trap me with 500bil isk, 2 titans. but i cant fly them...lol
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb
too cheap
Up it to like 5T liquid, an Azariel and a Moloch
@@frosthound_8594 you know i am poor
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fbthat's why you have to minmax iskies
With ref the karma public chat - the MOTD states they won’t answer questions on how long it takes to complete checks. So not getting an answer to that type of question shouldn’t have been disappointing or a surprise
why?
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb because the checks are thorough, and they look into things that could point to a spy or a history that wouldn’t be good for the alliance, also because ESI is terribly unreliable - oh, and because they get many apps -and if they spend their time looking to see how your apps are progressing - they aren’t using that time to work on processing applications
There's no democracy in MOST corporations (much like real corporations), but some value a horizontal social structure. The game isn't really built to accommodate that too well, but players can make it work.
thats true...
The vod iz Buzzing... Thank You ^^
Im playing 14 years eve Online - 7 years in Goonswarm Federation. The Goons of 2024 is better then I know them 2017 when I joined.
I was in a Delve when the disband of Band of Brothers happened and we lost sov. I didint like the way this went down. Not that I cared about loosing sov, what I didnt like was how it actually happened. Whilst I appreciate that some might use out of game ideas in game this to me was an exploitation of a mechanic which was never intended to happen. It wouldnt have mattered if BoB did it to Goons. I dont see much difference between that and say DDOS a comms channel. In game, go for your life, do what you want.
Well, CCP endorsed this as a legitimate mechanic and did not take any remedial action as they do when game mechanics break.
This was good, but I feel like it could have been edited down to maybe 10 minutes as much of it didn't really have anything to do with goons but alliances in general.
A few gripes:
For waiting in the public channel, it says to get on discord to chat.
For the 3 fleets a month requirement, that is specific to 4S and it isn't actually strict.
Most are closer to 3 fleets per quarter, and as long as you're checking the forum or getting on jabber you can take long breaks with no fleets and people understand you're taking a break from the game. And actually these are for PAPs, not specifically fleets. If a fleet goes long you will get a second pap.
For setting up services you did way more than was required of you. Just need to set up jabber, get auth'd on the forum and that is actually it I think. Shouldn't have taken more than 15 minutes, less if you asked someone about it as we have mentors ready to help people get set up an integrate with the alliance (these mentors are separate from the people there to help you in your unique situation).
"For setting up services you did way more than was required of you": I did exact that, what i was asking todo. Why are players then overloaded with setups when it's not necessary?
You need to approach joining goons from the perspective of a newbie corp like Karmafleet or ASCEE, in order for this to be more balanced.
was placed in 4s
Good review! Btw you misspelled goonswarm
i did the same mistake with horde...isn´t that bad?
So diffrent frpm bob yes. Mittani.
I think using Zigam as an example for FC headshotting isn't a fair choice. He is a streamer and taunts Goons and talks ish the whole time, he gets sniped for that reason I'd say. He is often taken out by standing, which isn't as structured target wise than a pinged fleet would be.
Some of what's presented is 4S specific, rather than Goonswarm Federation. There are some corps that are very PVP focused, and others not so much.
Thanks for visiting! See you in space! Maybe we will see a FRT video soon ?
Hello 4s CEO. You really have a very good group together at 4s. Totally relaxed and super nice people. Thank you for the extremely good support. The Karma guys don't like the feedback on the recruitment channel at all while you and 4s are relaxed and chilled...keep that running. FRAT? Aren´t they chinese Players? idk.
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb KF is a good bunch too :) on the other note, FRT has some international corps too, not just chinese, mayde you'll take a look. Take care!
@@nepenthefin9286 When it comes to member corps I know they have their own identity and as a KF member I can join any corp Jabber channel at will, just like everyone else.
There may be differences but when necessary it's the alliance that stands together as one. At least as long as you can make it. No one wants to give up their family or sleep time for an MMO any more. But if you do, you do you. You don't have to unless you want to.
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb When TEST collapsed after WWB2, Frat absorbed a lot of their NA and EU players. But yes, there are a lot of Chinese players in it.
Personally I just bounce around what I find enjoyable in game. Never been in Goons and spent a little time in some of the other blocs, but not enough to have a good understanding of either. Guess I always feel better in "start ups".
You're very correct about the autocracy of a lot of EVE Online blocs, I've seen attempts at democracy, been apart of some, and its always lead to inner civil wars.
Their IT... my christ, we keep ours limited to something simple, as simple as possible for recruitment. IF CCP made this something IN GAME, it wouldn't be needed. How these several systems have not been combined into one is crazy.
Yes...i think there are more than 30-40 (??) 3rd Party programs out there....
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb I've gone through most of them, a lot are just a recreation of another because either the original project died off or because they wanted their own Blackjack hall.
5 Auth platforms I'm aware of, SeAT, Alliance Auth, Neucore, EVE-HR, and ThunderED. Each do the same sort of thing, in their own ways. Sadly given the nature of tooling out there, I highly doubt CCP would want to put in the resources to make their own voice servers again which is the most typical use, fleet voice, you'll be remembered.
Nice video an interesting topic, would have loved knowing you in game.
Im an old vet from 2006 but don't really play atm last few years for various in game and some out of game reasons.
I ran my own training corp, spent a lot of time also in Null mostly AAA of old, NC. etc so fought a few wars against goons and saw them rise from drake fleets etc.
Did fleet stuff but also used to build Titans once under old POS indy systems.
I mostly enjoy reading or listening to Empires of Eve 1 & 2 by Andrew Groen.
Eve has such a rich in game history it's mental.
re join the game ! 🙂
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb ha i kept up with changes, but the changes ccp made to game (especially around indy & capital construction) stuff I invested in heavily - kinda ruined my game overnight. I still never forgiven them lol
Happy to chat eve stuff anytime.
I like to see more journalism stuff in EvE but when you've been at the heart of eve history there's never really been another game like it. 😉
I joined goons back in 2022, and I did lose some fun from the game. After a year I left as I noticed I was playing less. The community is good, but it's not very welcoming to new people. Overall my experience with goons was okay, but it did make EVE less fun.
There's some back and forth about head shooting FC's in the video and in the comments. In the U-Q fight between Panfam and Init last week with 3000+ pilots involved, not a single Monitor was killed ...
I love Goon's. They are the hero's of the galaxy! Without them it would be A horde clusterf%ck! I was A goon while I was still learning the game. I accidently went to a crabbing site where Asher was. I saw blues shooting rats, so I thought I would help. Next minute asher opens fire at me so I returned fire. Next minute I was kicked and set to red. I was gutted as I made some good friends in Delve. But I'll always love Goonswarm and hate Panfam!! Long live The Mittani!!
You understand that Horde exists because of goons (when they created Karma fleet), who literally WERE the clusterf%ck alliance? Goons set about making the game as toxic as they could. It was goons who created the big blue donuts, forcing the rest of eve to band against them. Goons are the high sec gankers, the recruitment scammers, the awox'er, that is what they are.
🤣😂The only question is: Did you POD Asher, yes or no? 🙂
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb Na.
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb Na mate. I enjoy your videos. You don't hold back!lol
@@TimsMissions 🙂
When an alliance has a recruiting department and an HR department uou know its legit lol
I joined karma fleet a couple days ago, i agree that alot of their stuff is pretty out dated compared to other alliances. They still rely on forums for most of their admin which feels quite clunky.
but karma is a cool crew....met a lot of funny ppl there
As for PAPs, it not several, it’s 3 a month, and you can reach that in 1 evening
Thanks for coming to check us out! The headshotting FCs thing was kind of odd to focus on because its not really a thing since monitors exist, at least in bigger fights like you said. Theres also the argument to be made that if your there to win the objective (IHUB contest, fortizar timer w/e) removing the people in charge is certainly a viable tactic.
sure, it's standard to have at least a second and third FC as a backup - in large fleets, who can take over. The space is to cold for honor ;-)
The issue is just if you go once to PH, your account is basically branded. You will have difficulties to join any goon corp afterwards and vice versa.
PH inc. is also doing checks, they check your corp history and they dont allow everything.
thats what I hate about eve. you cannot simply play the game, check out one side and maybe the other side. You can litterally brand your 5year old account and have very low chance to get away with that branding.
most corps dont even communicate with you during recruitnment, that you could explain yourself, why you were in this and that corp. they just reject and no discussion.
Yeah, that's unfortunate, though I do get where they're coming from. I'm a long time PH player but made a new alt account at one point to check out what goons were like. I joined Karmafleet, it was relatively similar. I did fleets here and there. One day I logged in to find that I was blacklisted though, no mail, no explanation. I had never done anything wrong or broken any rules. There was never any interaction between that account and any of my other accounts. I still wonder what triggered that suddenly after a month.
Democracy is possible in Eve, by giving everyone even shares ;)
It will never work though. All the best corporations and alliances work as dictatorships.
"intensive background checks", When dealing with large scale nullsec shenanigans, one of the most effective ways to attack/harm your enemies is to insert spies into their organisation. Some of the most pivotal moments in nullsec even in the last 7 or so years were defined by spycraft etc (seriously). My favourite example is a fucking newbie pilot leaking PL's plan to destroy the GOTG super fleet, (said newbie, was a close personal friend of the man behind the plan, for context). Suffice to say, destroying a super fleet of a major nullsec power has immense ramifacations for the game, and thats just, one example.
PH's extremely lax security policies means that it frequently deals with awoxing, as does brave newbies (although brave suffers it a bit less).
Too bad they knew you were coming. I think a “real influenced” review would have zero people knowing you’re there. Great video overall though. I’d love to see more of these.
yeah she should have just joined karmafleet
PH also knew she was coming it just wasn't mentioned in the video and is clearly evident in communications in the discord screenshots.
@@BanControl they "placed" me in 4s
I have to agree, to be as unbiased as possible the reviews could have been done 100% anonymous published at the same time. Goons having watched the Horde review will obviously try to appear better in every way compared to Horde. Good job being this objective, I mean that.
4S is recruiting BTW
I really like the CEO of 4S. He´s very nice and always respectful in chats with the team. I bet hes a leader also in real life too. I highly recommend joining 4S... BUT without any sec 0 and PvP experience, the rejection rate is probably pretty high, right??
I find it unbelievably hypocritical to complain about Goons head-shotting FC’s and preventing ‘good fights’ when your entire Eve career and media content was built on “head-shotting” helpless miners and low-sec newbs.
Thats true. ! Love that. Btw i am not killing miners, i kill helpless pve players also !!
Great Video as always! :)
How is the lip-sync done with the game avatars? Is this a in-game feature now?
No i did that online. Its a cool feature...its called D-ID. You need the picture and a voice...so i used Ceo´s original voice. you can also youse a text to voice from D-ID, but i dont like that...it sounds to much "unreal"
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb Awesome, Thanks!
let me know when you create something with it pls!
i too, hate it when i show up for a fight and the other side try and win
I just like the bee. Simple as
Great video on our alliance, great stuff - I really enjoyed this. Make more videos on us please hahaha
you put me on the line of fire? 🙂
i dont understand ur question sry@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb
more goon videos = line of fire
i am so confused Ö_Ö@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb
ppl sended me some links to goons treamers who...hmmm...are not amused about the video. you know...its the line of fire, also if the ceo asked you for a review :-)
Yea come on in the waters lovely
Eh why join the imperium, it’s eve on easy mode. The smaller groups is where it’s at.
Years ago, early in my EvE career, I was on the receiving end of the Goon's blitz. Naturally Goons were the big evil bad and I looked at them as such. Years later, my corp joined Goons, which was controversial at the time. After joining I had come to realize that Goons really do take care of their members and everyone was friendly. They killed us with kindness. It was a clear departure from other alliances that had taken advantage of their members in order to funnel isk to their top members of said alliance. This was a clear departure from other alliances where shame and ridicule was a constant.
Have A 280m sp clone that can fly everything maxed out. A 180m sp strictly combat pilot and 160m industrial mega trader/researcher, 1t in assets and liquid. Just dont have the time anymore. Jumping back in after idle into pvp is not smart, flying around a titan with cobb webbs is not smart, so they just sit there. Sleeping dragons.
Love this
thank you !
I would say NO. I stopped when leadership changed when they started to look what was wrong with the old Goons and started apologising and punishing ppl for being diks that's THAT is the moment GSF changed what remains today is shadow of it's former glory . The guy who took over is too small for Mitten's shoes !
good vid, any interest in taking this concept of trying out corps to wormhole space?
Its a huge workload....maybe i can do that from time to time...but....tbh.... Wormhole space is so challenging for me. Everyone is cloaked, I can't see who is in the local chat, and when I try to troll the local chat, no one ever responds.
Its a different style for sure. If you want to take a shot at it "Kitchen Sinkhole" would be happy to take you in. You would be welcome to review us if your interested. We live in a low class C2 with High sec and C3 static connections so we aren't the average wormhole. We would usually have plenty of connections scanned that allows access all over new Eden and we value our connectivity because it allows us to find content far more easily.
If your familiar with OZ EVE I did a presentation on his twitch and u-tube "Pitch Your EVE Online Playstyle: Low Class Wormhole Life feat. Varag (Kitchen Sinkhole)" take a look see if you would want to check out the flip side of EVE. PS. I don't have 500 billion for you ;)
@@ThisisAmi-Eveonline-xi8fb