The Sega Saturn vs. The Arcade
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- We take a quick look at 8 games the Saturn pulled from the arcade.
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Opening "Sega" jingle is from Astal for the Sega Saturn.
Ending Music during the credits is from Batman for the Sega Genesis.
SLX Logo
By: Jan Neves
RUclips Page - / jan3d
Intro by Evan S.
portfolio.tsestudios.com/
Episode Notes:
1. Saturn footage captured on real hardware. Arcade footage from MAME and Nebula Model 2.
2. RayCrisis is the 3rd entry into the "Ray" series of shooters. Thought it was actually a prequel to the first.
3. Night Warriors is one of the few Capcom fighters that made its way west for the Saturn. It's sequel, Vampire Savior, did not.
4. Most of the games in this episode did not come out on the Saturn in the US and Europe.
5. Capturing footage for UMK3 was agonizing. I fought Shang Tsung half a dozen times before the asshole would finally morph. I also couldn't get off a damn fatality to save my life. I ended up using old footage for it in the end.
6. Chase HQ and SCI are both much harder on the Saturn than they are in the arcade. Even on easy, the car steering is less forgiving and it seems to take longer to bring down a bad guy.
7. Liquid Kids gets crazy hard in the upper levels. I tried to beat it a few years back and it really put me through my paces. It may look kiddy but it sure as hell is not.
8. Thunder Force AC was ported to the SNES as Thunder Spirits. It was an OK job, but I recommend the Switch Sega Ages release if you want a modern version of it.
9. I'm terrible at Battle Garegga. Always have been. The debris field left by dying enemies covers the bullets so well to my eyes. Half the time, I never see what kills me.
10. If you find the bouncing boobs in DOA too silly, there is an option to turn it off. There's actually a fair number of options to modify the game, as well as additional play modes beyond arcade.
11. Chase HQ obviously came out in 1988 and not 1998. A mistake I missed in editing. 
Игры
I remember seeing X-men vs Street Fighter in the Saturn and then.. we bought the PS1 version. We couldn´t believe how bad it was XD
I imported the Saturn version as soon as it was released, especially since it's what my friends and I were playing daily at the arcade at the time. Having to do the ram cart swap trick with the original one that came out sucked, but everything was great once some off brand ram carts were released that you could just leave in forever.
@@NeonmirrorblackI never had a chance to import it for saturn but do remember all of my friends telling me for that game, be glad that I had a saturn because they butchered the PS1 version.
What a gift after a 12 hour shift my beer in hand walking home watching this great video that just brings me back to my youth. As always thanks sega lord X
Damn bro! Hope your resting up OK. Been pulling 9-10 hour shifts myself trying not to drive myself crazy but I need the cash ;)
You are walking, drinking a beer, and watching this video at the same time?
@@AmbientMess i feel you bro but i walk home cause its a 20min walk to work lol
@@n0isyturtle yup legal too drink outside so one hand a beer and other hand my phone not many cars in the small streets so safeeee
Dam bro, what work do you do?
4:09 "Stuff blows up real good here"
Haha, oh Sega Lord X, we love you.
To have this quality of content takes AGES
What do you mean ?
I disagree. Quality like this takes passion and a love for the subject. There's plenty of RUclipsrs who have been around for ages and they have only gotten worse and worse. Of course time and experience helps, especially with pacing, editing and the like.
@@Gatorade69 He could be talking about home port content.
More like Sega Ages >:D
@@Gatorade69 the op is referring to the SEGA UK marketing slogan - to be this good takes AGES
I'm all for getting a Part 2!
And part 3 & 4 😃
One interesting detail about the Saturn version of DOA 1 is that Tomonobu Itagaki, the game's main creator, said that it was better than the arcade and chose it for the Xbox re release on Dead or Alive Ultimate. Now I don't know in what way he he considers that, I guess the gameplay had some refinements here and there.
I think sometimes those creators say things like that to get a reaction. He knows full well that the arcade version is superior.
@@tom11zz884 I think he said whatever he said back then because the Saturn version is based on the Model 2 arcade.
@@tom11zz884 if the creator says the Saturn version is best ill go with the creator we all know darn well they know what they are talking about
From a technical standpoint, the Saturn version is inferior to the Model 2 arcade version. What made the Saturn version superior was that it had more content than the arcade game while retaining most of the technical aspects of the arcade's graphics. What made the PlayStation version inferior to the Saturn version is it has 2D backgrounds and simpler character models (but with better lighting), which is why Itagaki did not choose the PS1 version even though it has two additional characters, Ayane and Bass. He also didn't want to backport all the additional content and console modes to the Model 2 version, which would have made it beyond the scope of the project when the main point of the bundle is to remake Dead or Alive 2. The inclusion of the first game is for completion purpose only (so the Xbox would be the only console to have every DOA game available at that point).
I’ve done a lot of research on this, and when Itagaki had the option to choose the best console port of DOA1, he choose the Saturn version for the original X-Box DOA 2 Ultimate collection. Something that I wrote about DOA 1 made it to NeoGaf’s Saturn thread. Some of the information I found was partially misinterpreted.
The reason, why the Saturn port was chosen, for DOA Ultimate over a port of the original arcade version is largely due to a lack of a proper model 2 emulator, with fully decrypted rom boards. At the time, model 2 games were largely rebuilt ports. The best example is Virtua Fighter 2 on PS2. It’s missing texture detail, and all of the assets in general, are lower quality.
Here are some general facts, and something that constantly gets mentioned. On the Saturn, a single quadrilateral is interpreted as distorted sprite that’s seen as 1 polygon. DOA on the Saturn runs in HiRes mode 2, and it pushes 60,000-65,000 quadrilaterals per second. The PS1 version pushes close to its max, with AI and lighting, 115,000. The thing is, with model viewer on, for both ports, the PS1 has to render 1 more polygon to have a rectangle or a square shape. This is why the counts are actually higher. If you force the ps1 emulator to render quads, the polygon counts drop to Saturn levels. The Saturn is also doing a lot more with the backgrounds, displaying the overhead bridge on Hyabusa’s stage, as well as the animated danger zone, waterfall, and the lightning. The PS1 simply has a solid, low res bitmap stretched around the screen.
Now, by comparison, the Sega Model 2 offered 2 different lighting modes, as well as the ability to display 300,000 polygons per second. This was more than any N64 game ever pushed, bad enough to have secs claim, and hold the graphics crown with every new version of Virtua Fighter until the 5th one, which brand it for 1 1/2 years. There’s a Yu Suzuki quote that’s also been taken out of context. It was from the Official US Sega Saturn Magazine. To paraphrase it, he generally said that the polygon counts are lower in Virtua Fighter 2 than Virtua Fighter 1… For many people, that’s how they choose to close off the comment. The rest of it is, “On the Saturn.” Virtua Fighter 1 in the arcades pushes 180,000 polygons per second, which is far more than the actual in game max of each 32bit console. Virtua Fighter 2 could pull this off due to clever texture mapping. Virtua Fighter 1 on Saturn is 90,000 quadrilaterals per second, running 90% of its code on Saturn’s VDP1. The rest is the low res backdrop, and the life bars, which run on the VDP2. Virtua Fighter 2 on the Saturn displays 60,000 texture mapped quads at 60fps with 1 lighting mode, all while running in the Saturn’s highest resolution mode, 704x512 interlaced in Pal regions, and 704x480 in the U.S.
For anyone wondering what the basic lighting mode in the Saturn’s Virtua Fighter 2 port is, play the game on the Saturn emulator Kronos, then start the arcade mode, dumping the textures from Lau’s stage. This next step is important, hit Alt + Tab to go to whatever folder you have the Lau stage textures in, and name it Lau. This will keep you from overwriting player model textures, When you get to Sarah’s stage, which every character except Jacky, fight’s Sarah there, dump the textures when the lightening hits. When you get to Kage Maru’s stage, dump the textures there, then lastly, do the same thing for Dural’s underwater stage. Now, there should be a series of assets in individually named stages. In game you’ll see that when the lightening strikes in Sarah’s stage, the entire screen will be completely bright eight for under a second, but, when it strikes again, the background will flash white, and only your player model will be temporarily dark. This applies to Kage Maru’s stage where both players have darker tones for their player models. Looking at each folder, you’ll see that for every stage that has dark and light mode, the costumes are still always their bright and vibrant color tone. There are 2 different beta versions of Saturn’s Virtua Fighter 2 port that leaked recently. The less complete version is missing dark and light mode completely, and certain stages, such as Kage Maru’s, are still missing this effect in the much more complete beta.
To close this extremely long response out, Zero Divide on the Saturn, which was basically coded by a small design team within a few short months, runs on the Saturn’s HiRes mode 2, and it features Gouraud shading, with certain stages displaying popup free, basic VDP1 quadrilateral backgrounds. The total polygons counts are 55,000-65,000, depending on the player models, and it doesn’t stutter, or drop frames at all. On the title HiRes Mode 1 title screen, near the logo it says “Featuring the SH2.” As strange as it sounds, they were literally advertising to players that it’s using both Saturn CPUs at the same time.
The Saturn was by far the best console period if you enjoyed Capcom fighting games at the time. They were either arcade perfect (with the ram card) or close enough that you wouldn't notice the difference without being ridiculously familiar with the arcade version. Marvel Superheroes, Night Warriors, Street Fighter Alpha 1-3, X-Men vs Street Fighter, Marvel vs Street Fighter etc.
It was also the best console of that period for Shmups like Battle Garegga, Dodonpachi, Radiant Silvergun, Strikers, and many many others. An FPGA hardware Saturn is coming soon. I'm looking forward to replaying many games I've played on the Saturn.
FACTS
30K+ views in the first 24 hours I'd say you'll make another one of these. :) I hope you do anyway, I like this kind of stuff.
Joe The Red, do another left in Japan video, check out Wachenroeder on Saturn, Dragon Force 2, and Slayers Royal both Saturn also. I think youll find Wachenroeder is a dark depressing but phenominal SRPG
Please make an updated Saturn console video, Joe. The N64 got two videos and the N64 sucks.
@@agarza915 shiiiiet
Game Sack!!!
Part two!
part two!
Love your videos man. Said it before but I'll say it again, you've really helped me appreciate the Sega library of games from the 90s. I grew up with NES and Playstation so I missed most of these titles unless I was at a friend's house
More Saturn goodness is always great. Would love a part 2.
Great video! MK2 Saturn port hurt my soul as a kid. VC is near flawless I believe and deserves a worthy mention!
Vampire Savior port is probably considered one of the best arcade ports ever, it has characters that not even the PS3/360 HD version have, because they actually used the Arcade ROM while the saturn port didn't
Only arcade ROM version that equals the Saturn in amount of characters in game for Savior are the emulations found on Darkstalkers Collection on the PS2. That collection even allows you to choose whether you can select the 2 bosses in the original Darkstalkers.
@@Bloodreign1 Yes, but the character present in Vsav on Saturn are Donovan and Phobos/Hutzil wich were completely Absent in the Arcade version, there's no sprite data or anything else from them in the arcade rom because they were scrapped in production phase due CPS2 limited memory.
They were later added in Vampire Savior/Hunter 2 but 2 other chracters had to be removed for them to be included (Lilith and Bulleta/B-B. Hood in Hunter 2 and Sasquatch and Gallon/John Talbain in Savior 2). Those games, however was japan exclusive and they are SO bad.
The boss characters in Darkstalkers/Vampire 1 in the Vampire collection are actually present in the original arcade rom, though phobos had an incomplete attack animation that was either finished or removed in the ps2 collection. Pyron even had his own ending in the original arcade release but was unfinished, i believe it was finished for the ps2 port.
@@CiccioImberlicchio Huitzil's alternate pallet in Darkstalkers 1 is also bugged in the original arcade release (even though you'd never legitimately see it). The PS2 collection version fixes this, and even adds in Dee as a new secret character in Vampire Savior/Hunter 2/Savior 2.
Vampire Hunter/Night Warriors didn't see any major enhancements or tweaks, but that's fine by me as it's my favorite of the series (purely for the soundtrack alone, which I own on CD!)
Ps1 version was also impressive and had extra content as well included vampire savior 2 in the game. Dreamcast and psp versions are basically collections of the games into one game like how hyper street fighter 2 and hyper street fighter alpha was. All in all the Saturn port is the one I always go back to playing and I find it hilarious that you can unlock English support after beating the game without continuing.
Darkstalkers always felt like a sega franchise it was always better there
It still impresses me how much they were able to do with relatively limited hardware. I wonder how much of todays game's system requirements are due to wasteful or inefficient coding...
Way too many unfortunately.
Much since most have to rely on Unreal layer. But on the other hand I can't even imagine the learning curve to low level programing in last three gen machines
Something like Unreal Engine 4 does have large overheads, but it means it takes less time for your artists and devs to build a good looking game. Meanwhile, the Saturn was notoriously difficult to develop on, so good luck utilising the hardware well anyway!
@@riaz8783 No doubt, but if you look at some of the things that they were able to pull off on the Genesis/Megadrive, for instance, it's pretty remarkable.
Low level coding to the silicon is rarely used these days except in the rare case for speeding up some algorithms. Most coders aren't and don't have to be efficient coders along with the need to get games out on time (I know...they don't and still push buggy messes) means they're not rewarded for efficiency. They're using frameworks like Unreal Engine and slap their code on top.
One of your best vids! I didn't even know about a few of these. Another round please!
Perfect timing Mr X. (S.o.R pun intended. )
Seeing as you know I had to sell my collection...these days its just me, my phone, mame, and a 8bitdo mini hanging from my cars interior mirror.
Thank you.
Good topic choice.
Liquid Kids, like Bubble Symphony, are basically arcade perfect, I can find no differences, even on real hardware for the Saturn versions, and the arcade versions on the PS2 Taito compilations.
Battle Garegga. Such a masterpiece.
Just got up for work and this appeared. What a pleasant holiday gift from SLX.
Missed this one but always admired Sega’s dedication to porting over their arcade hits as accurately as possible.
Even the Capcom Vs. series is better on the Dreamcast than on the PS2 and XBOX,
because the sound qualities are muffled on the non-sega systems.
Good morning SLX!! This channel is always fire, so your vid makes for a great wake-and-bake, so to speak!!
The realization Saturn games in my early teens are the reason I love homing lasers and why frame rate slowdowns don't bother me as much as most lol
It's always so nice to hear someone else talk about games on this console. It was so special to me
You really bring me back to simpler times.
Great topic! Keep it up!
Bring on Part 2! This is great content. Keep up the good work SLX.
Awesome video. I love your Saturn coverage. I just recently got into the Japanese Saturn so your videos have been a big help. 🙂👍
A deep dive into Battle Garegga? Now we're getting into the truly fine Sega wine. AC is my favourite Thunder Force, too. It just nails it and the extra music channel makes a great difference. And Chase HQ has been a favourite since after school sessions at the entrance of a local department store. I was hoping Night Striker would make an appearance too, but I understand why it would have been redundant here.
Great video as usual! I love the arcade / console comparisons, keep it coming!
Love watching your videos with my student to study English.
I love these videos! Thank you for making them.
I love how you started this with Strider on the genny. I bought that on release in japan and was blown away by it. Seeing it on my humble little genny was insane and it was so much fun! Prolly second to Revenge in making the Genesis' the ultimate 16 bit beast.
Part 2!!!!
Absolutely look into some more arcade releases on home hardware and your usual presentation 😎
I love these System vs Arcade videos. I always wonder how the 32x would have faired with some of these arcade ports. I know some of the colors wouldn’t be as good but I feel as though games like Dalkstalkers and MK3 would have been awesome on the 32x
would have been a pricey cart. 32x carts were generally 20megs.
Enjoyed the video as usual.cant wait for part 2. Keep them coming sega Lord x
I do so miss the arcades those where great times to be found
It's odd that sprite scalers haven't been represented in any modern games that use retro styles. I'd love to see a revival.
In fact, there's one racing game with such style, that being Victory Heat Rally
More than one. Check out 80's Overdrive and the racing stage in 198x.
The coffee machine at work uses scaling effects on coffee cups that would have been to die for in the 16 bit days
It has to be done in software these days. There's no modern hardware that has 2D acceleration.
Slipstream (2018) is based on scaling sprites, and it plays like OutRun. Definitely worth a try.
Great video. I've been playing the Saturn a lot the last few days and it's such a fantastic system.
I still have my Saturn! Love Dragon Force and Astal
Fantastic video. Hope to see more!
Another great video. One of the challenges I noticed during that era was handling vertically oriented games on a horizontal monitor. Either the graphical details were compressed, in order to fit everything on screen, or they kept the details, but portions of the upper and lower part of the screen were cut off, giving you less time to react to oncoming enemies.
Or you'd get the occasional TATE/YOKO modes with many vertical Shmup's and the like. Always fun to see which ports included a true vertical orientation mode, like Battle Garegga on Saturn or The Raiden Project on PS1.
@@AceTrainerX3 PS1 shooters like Strikers 1945 (optional) and Mobile Light Force (default) had the scrolling feature where the action moves forward or backwards, when moving up or down.
Thank you for the fantastic video and Happy Xmas to you and family :)
Just subbed. Fellow Saturn lover here. Thanks for the video. I will take as much Saturn as you send out
Awesome list of games man! Some I definitely need to track down.
14:55 what if Lando and Han were on a buddy cop movie lol
You have by far the best intro on RUclips!
i live in Moscow, Russia.
i so envy you Western guys - you could play arcade games in your childhood. In Moscow there were very few places during 90s with modern arcade machines. In 97 my parents took me for a vacation to Italy - there were three arcade halls near our hotel and while my parents had afternoon nap - i spent these 2 hours in those halls watching others playing. Every day my parents gave me 3 coins so there was no hope to beat House of the Dead or something like that so once when a rich guy came with loads of coins and beat HotD - i was super happy.
Sega lord thank you for bringing back arcade memories I never had.
I would always try to pay for a second person if I had enough change. Some arcade games wete much more fun with two players, especially lightgun games. I would save up all my change (and even take some of my parents change as they didn't care) and go to the arcade with a sock filled with quarters.
The first thing I find noticeable about CPS2 arcade ports is the cropped resolution from 384x224 to 320x224.
Since most of the graphics haven't been rescaled, this means there's less screen space to move around and the visuals look stretched.
Love this channel
Can you produce a part two? Street Fighter Alpha 2 on the Saturn was damn near perfect. I enjoyed the art section Capcom added to the home release.
All the alpha games on Saturn were fantastic.
Saturn zero 3 is actually even better than the Dreamcast version too. Bigger sprites.
Great video as usual!
You got me with Dimitri in the thumb nail!
Also the darkstalkers segment was a nice touch 👍
Lots of Taito love in this video! My favorite Taito arcade port on the Saturn is Elevator Action II - another perfect port! Great video, the Sega Saturn is home to the best arcade ports.
Thanks to you and after watching many of your videos about Sega Saturn I finally decided and bought a Saturn model 1, one of the best purchases ever!
i really wish switch gave us saturn games instead of genesis man
Why not both? Hell, also give us the SMS and the DC.
@@DanoLefourbe
In general Sega does not seem to acknowledge anything outside of Genesis/Mega drive and occasional arcade games. The Saturn and DC just seem constantly MIA.
@@JohnDoe-wq5eu Yeah I can't remember ever seeing any re-release of anything else than MD/Genesis. Such a waste.
We already got that, with Cotton 2, Cotton Boomerang and Guardian Force. You can go and purchase it right now if you like.
Many Saturn IPs are on Switch: Panzer Dragoon, Street Fighter Alpha 2, Cotton, Guardian Force, even the soon to be release House of the Dead.
Another great vid! Love the content. Please do a series on Shining Force III - all scenarios. Feel you are one of the few channels to do it justice and may be able to reinvigorate the push to get a remake made. Thanks for all that you do!
The Layer Section games are among my favorite shooters. LS1 has some incredible backgrounds.
Love me some Gallatic Attack. Cleared it last year with 3 credits on Saturn.
Amazing video segalord x. Love the Saturn for its arcade ports. Lucky enough to pick up Liquid Kids recently. Love it. There are other greats to consider like all the RAM Capcom fighters as well as Elevator Action Returns. Such a brilliant system. Please do some follow ups!
The Model 2 Sega games still look pretty good to this day.
Of course, a few of the Model 1 games like Virtua Racing still play well, too.
IT's a shame they kind of faded into semi-obscurity and basically only got re-released (in a few cases) on PS2 in the 2000's.
I'm glad they brought back what they did on PS3 and Xbox Live (VF2, Fighting Vipers, Daytona, etc.) but it would have been nice if more had been ported.
I really liked the video. Looking forward to the second one
Glad I got a Fenrir, as well as the 1MB and 4MB ram carts, so I can basically check out any of these games (with the exceptions of The King of Fighters '95, and that one Ultraman game, due to their proprietary Rom carts). Good stuff all around on Sega's 32-bit wonder.
A very interesting episode, normally you see videos who shows the difference betwwen consoles, i also like the fact that you mentioned some things i didn´t know before.
I´m all for The Sega Saturn vs. The Arcade part 2.
Awesome as always, looking forward to part two. Hopefully we’ll see Darius Gaiden in the next video.
Awesome video, ur vids always make wanna play my saturn, but sadly I only got a few games
Great work segalordx thank you
Awesome comparison! I'm so happy to still own my original Saturn since it's release!! (have to get back to it playing again with it soon 😉).
Love the AquaJack shout-out. Always wanted a home port of that game.
Does the cropping on the Saturn version of Battle Garegga not significantly affect game play at all?
I was wondering the same thing.
You can play it in Tate more in the options if you are ok with putting your tv on its side. That's what I used to do it makes a huge difference to the visuals.
Man the sad part about Liquid Kids on the Saturn is that it's so much more expensive than the arcade pcb. I bought the arcade pcb sometime last year for 100 bucks, Id be lucky to get the CD for that much.
The 2D games looked and played like the arcade versions. While some of the 3D games may have fell short visually, they felt like the arcade and that's the important part. Going all the way back to Atari - its more important to feel and play like the arcade than look like the arcade.
Sprite scaling technology is what I always wanted in a home console.
It had a greater wow factor to my eyes back then when compared to polygonal 3D games, and to this day I am still disappointed at the fact that we don’t have new games with sprite scaling technology.
Hopefully indie design can bring it back one day.
Fantastic upload as usual good sir!
Awesome stuff!
That era was special while I chose the Sega Saturn to be my Arcade at home system the PS1 also had some great Arcade to home ports Tekken games for example almost 1 to 1 with more fleshed out 1 player mode where each character had an ending FMV which certainly gave me motivation to keep playing.
ALWAYS COOL TO SEE HOW CLOSE THE HOME CONSOLE CAME TO THE ARCADE THE SATURN WAS ALWAYS RIGHT THERE WITH THE 2D OFFERINGS
Great vídeo!!
Part 2? Yes please. Also, nice to see coverage of Liquid Kids, also available on the PS2’s Tahiti Legends 2 disc.
Ah, Tahiti Legends one of my favs
Sega Lord X video about the Saturn = Auto like!
Chase HQ was badass!
Great reminder as to why I loved the Saturn so much.
I remember when MK3 and UMK3 came out on disc based home consoles had great times playing those games then. Yes please do a part two to this video.
Yes definitely do a 2nd, and 3rd part.
Radiant Silvergun was a great arcade port to the Saturn as well.
Great episode :)
Loving the selection here, roll on oart 2!
For Thunderforce 3 ac the sound effects are muffled.
There are the same problem with thundercore4 port on saturn.
the sounds effect use sample too compressed and it's a big different with the cristal clear sound from a real FM chip
Those were really cool conversion ports they did :)
Can't wait for part 2
Looking forward to Part 2! 🥶🥶🥶
Great video!
Merry Christmas homie
I'm getting me Sega Saturn by the end of this year! I don't know how, but I'm getting one!
Kid: Can you drop me off at the arcade?
Me: But we have the arcade at home.
Arcade at home: Dreamcast+Saturn
If you do a part 2 then I'd recommend Tecnosoft's Hyper Duel. Near perfect other than some short loading times. Also a unique "Saturn" mode with reworked sprites, game mechanics and soundtrack. It's a banger of a game.
GREAT GREAT VIDEO!! 10 outta 10!
very good conversions
Man i love the saturn, one of the many reason why i havent quit my job, also uni, yeah that too
I know that before I even get properly into this video I'm gonna love it from the start 😀👍👌
Raiden Trad is so sick. The whole series going back, still one of my favorite shooters. And I'm playing Grind Stormer now. This game needs be remade. One of the Genesis best shooters. FireShark, Musha, Gleylancer, Guardian Force. Such nasty Sega games.
Night warrior: darkstalkers revenge is fantastic. 😀👍🎮
great work! to be fair, during the Dreamcast era arcade ports were still a big deal, I guess because they were able to port games from the last great days of the arcade.
Plz, plz, plz, Mr x, do a part 2.i still play my Saturn with the 4in1 ram cart, and shit, I love your videos.