Franciscas (throwing axes)
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- In which our besweatered presenter shares with the viewer his experience of throwing reconstructions of franciscas. Of course, he never actually threw any at people with any intention of harming them. He just bunged them around and observed how they behaved.
www.LloydianAspects.co.uk
I saw a demonstration with franciscas where some were thrown at the ground just in front of a line of dummies with shields (actual dummies, not people stupid enough to stand in place whilst others threw sharp/pointy/stabby things at them) and the others were thrown in the air above. The franciscas that were thrown at the ground bounced up and under the shields as the others were raining down over the shields. The demonstrators said that this was how the axe was used: to force the opponent to either raise or lower their shields and be exposed to one or the other direction of the bounding axes. Would have done a marvelous job breaking formations.
This is my understanding of how Sikhs used their chakrams.
2 minutes in and I scroll down to look for this exact comment (which is top comment)
Yeah I thought this was common knowledge among weapons antiquities guys.
That would mean that they had a metric fuckton of those things to throw?
@@Scarlioni but chakras don't bounce as much do they? They have serrated ends so they probably end up stuck somewhere.
I noticed a couple of days ago that the the Wikipedia entry for the francisca says that they bounced and that this would disrupt enemy formations, and the citation was my article on my website!
Now I imagine these things spinning and flying around like theres a glitch in the physics engine.
SAME
People running out of formation, trying not to get winged by an axe tumbling sideways and just yelling "HAX!!".
+mrwindupbird101 l.o.l! trully a weapon(s) of mass destruction!
You just learn how far 1,2+3 spins will take. You can!
I just love imagining the recreation process.
"I really can't see the point in this design, frankly it just looks a little rubbish to me."
*throws axe*
"Oh...OOOOHH!"
That's probably how they were invented too. Some drunk Frankish blacksmith accidentally forged one, looked at it, thought it was rubbish, chucked it away, over his shoulder and hit himself in the back of the head.
Now imagine the inventor of the boomerang.
@@Milan_Smidt Human advancement and ingenuity is amazing. I love trial-and-error engineering.
So, I have been competing in axe throwing competitions for many years now (we normally refer to them as tomahawks, although a large variety of axes are used, including franciscas, but "hawk competition" is easy to say) and I will say that it was definitely awkward and difficult at first, however now I can easily aim and accurately hit my target from up to and exceeding 15 meters. We sometimes practice by running and turning, giving very little time to judge the distance to our target, but after a while, you get a very good feel for the weapon. My first year of competing, just sticking the axe in the target from a distance was an accomplishment, however now its about how quickly and where on the target I hit.
My point is, throwing an axe is a lot more plausible than it seems, and just like bows, the more you train with them, the more accurate they are. In my experience with javelins, throwing them requires more strength and form than with an axe, and although they can be thrown further and fly faster, a throwing axe can be taken out of a holster and thrown accurately in much less time (albeit, much less distance as well)
I am not disagreeing with anything in this video, and I quite enjoyed the history lesson from it as well, just thought i'd provide more insight on the matter.
now that you mention that they bounce, I'd like to see a video of a demonstration outdoors, with someone hurling a bunch of franciscas and we see them bounce
That would be cool
There are two kinds of people
Bagsy be the thrower, not the throweree (if that's what you call the intended "catcher"?).
Holy shit, you juggled franciscas? That might be the coolest thing ever.
it was a joke
@@peterdonaldhume no he actually juggles like that... he also juggled lit torches in the respective video
"If you can dodge a Francisca, you can dodge a Wrench" Patches O'Houlihan
Yep, you'd be in your formation, see the Franks coming, and be like, oh shit are they going to throw those axes again? Ahh fuck they are.
Cal6009 I don't know why this comment is so funny.
ecuse it is the realest. B
My sister is called Francisca
Big Bad Wolf Does she bounce?
Only on clubs.
That old battleaxe.
nice
Big Bad Wolf Over here in Germany, it's a quite common girl - name.
Pleasingly, the way he describes is exactly how franciscas work in Rome Total War: Barbarian Invasion. They bounce all over the place, and iirc can hit units while bouncing after the initial impact. They are also very good at disrupting formations.
Only game I've played that implements them that way!
I remember reading a pretty good translation some 40 years ago, that the franciscas were indeed thrown. The translator was a bit perplexed that the description seemed to indicate that the axe was thrown with the blade reversed!. He related to me that this was consistently stated in the document.
Upon examining the various franscisas, were most often a fairly well made weapon, but extremely plain. Remember at this time, weapons were often personally known, and so were most commonly decorated. Examination of franciscas were not.
Actually, when one reverses the axe while throwing, the reason for the off s-curve becomes quite startling apparent. As the presenter states, upon throwing, and hitting the ground, at speed, they tend to bounce around more than a little. The problem is that throwing the axe blade first, tends to dig the blade into the ground stopping the "bouncing" If the blade is reversed, it hits poll side fist on the ground and then effectively doesn't stop until much later down field.
Additionally, like the franciscas; arrows, sling pellets/balls, javelins, other ballistic weapons; even firearms, were not designed to be necessarily immediately lethal. Ballistic weapons were designed to incapacitate, so the wounded to be not available for the fight. The finishing could be then done at leisure.
Good point, and I know it is possible to catch a javelin and throw it back because I've done it. They were still in use in the late eighth century, so that's overlapping the very early Viking age
its funny to see your old videos where you reply to everything, always a great watch :)
The other thing to know is that a correctly thrown francisca can actually split a poorly made shield (One without facing). It gets in the grain of the wood and just reams the planks with its weight, like a woodcutting axe.
goddamn watching your videos always makes me want to play total war
I thought i was the only one
You're not alone!
I'm almost going back to play some Medieval II again
Francisca Heerban!
Mount & Blade for me
7-0
So they are reusable grenades?
no they are axes
Yes. An axe grenade.
No, they bounce.
@@jeremyszpicki491 bouncy reusable axe grenade, sounds great
Imagine a volley of Franciscas. Thanks for this 11 year old video! Doing a bit of family history and looking into Salin Franks.
Every weapon is a throwing weapon!
+dendronkenfoetus My throwing grenade launcher rocks.
+Wiggum Esquilax If you throw it with a thread attached to your fingers and the trigger, you can even fire it after it hits!
There is a story of a gurkha who resorted to throwing the bipod from his GPMG at an enemy as a last resort. He survived and was decorated for his action
The most effective being a bow.
Sherman Tank?
To the people saying these couldn't break shields; Procopius mentions that franciscas were used *primarily* to break the enemies' shields (The exact quote is on wikipedia).
Remember this isn't even the middle ages yet.
Shields weren't of the same quality as they were later on and the developments in shieldcrafting may very well be the reason that franciscas were no longer used at some point.
That's correct. Plywood was rediscovered during the middle ages. The Romans had plywood and it made the franscisca a lot less useful.
simplethunder It wasn't intended to break the shield when thrown. of course most one handed axes don't break throw shields the tactic is to get over or around a shield and hit he guy behind it this includes pulling the shield open by hooking a axe on it and simply using force to pull the shield down while you use another weapon to kill the enemy or you buddy next to you kills the enemy. All ancient combat formations were about teamwork. and most shields that are modern reconstructions to day are rubbish compared to the shields of ancient cultures who actually relied on them for protection. a modern reproduction usually uses plywood, most ancient shield used actual hardwoods like ash or oak. the strength of the shield depended on its design.
RileyWorks No the Romans didn't have plywood shields they had shields made from sheets of hardwood basically they cut down a tree mailed it into thin sheets of wood and made their shields from about half inch thick sheets of wood in 3 layers glued together one sheet on top of the other. Modern plywood uses basically saw dust and fragments of wood glued together with resin. Romans used larger sheets of wood not plywood. a single roman shield was made of 3 layers of wood sheets. modern reconstructions use plywood because its easier to work with. Than what the Romans used. However Modern plywood doesn't hold up as well as ancient roman shields. did ... btw Spartans used hardwood shields made from ash or oak at least 1-2 inches thick. Modern reconstructions use plywood which doesn't have near the strength of either ash or oak wood.
John2r1 "...each man carried a sword and shield and an axe. Now the iron head of this weapon was thick and exceedingly sharp on both sides while the wooden handle was very short. And they are
accustomed always to throw these axes at one signal in the first charge and thus shatter the shields of the enemy and kill the men."
that's shattering the shield wall formation. not the individual shields. after the shield wall breaks up combat becomes warrior vs warrior or if your smart as they where you work with your fellow warriors to kill the enemy creating a 2 or more vs 1 enemy as you kill enemies through tactics. however the tactic I described is historically accurate as they did throw their axes up in the air so that they came down on the enemy like javelins only more devastating as throwing axes tend to bounce around hitting multiple opponents. they never broke the shields themselves just the formation which was called a shield wall.
so we are talking about the same tactic. which is throwing the axes high in the air so that they come down on the enemy who can't lift his shield while in a shield wall to protect himself, then charging in on the disorganized shield wall right as they are attempting to protect themselves form what they think is going to be another volley of throwing axes thus breaking the shields of the shield wall which only means breaking the formation generally although I suppose if you hit a damaged shield with a two handed axe when you charge the enemy force it could literally break the shield. but that wasn't the objective of throwing axes in ancient warfare. the objective was the same as throwing javelins into the enemies ranks , ie breaking the formations ranks up.
Is it snowing in your room?
+MrRamazanLale2 Ghosts
but in all seriousness its probly a hanging thing for decoration that has little mirrors on it.
+fig8man It's probably lint glistening in the light.
That's just his dead skin.
I had always imagined that they had named the rocket after the pointed stick, but I could have it the wrong way around.
inwas taught by a latin prof. that franciscas were bounced or skidded off the ground intentionally. plus any francisca bouncing at you has a franc chasing after it....
then what are the scariest from them? the francisca or the franks afterwards? no pun intended of course
"...they bounce."
Draven, you wanna get in on these?
+Gypsy Squid
DRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEN
+Gypsy Squid I'd imagine Katarina would take an interest as well
Who is draven?
The Emperors Exicutioner
He's an endearingly egotistical entertainer/executioner who shouts and throws windmill machetes that ricochet off of people's faces.
From?
Speaking of "tribal" European weapons, could you please make a video about the Dacian falx if you happen to know anything about it? Thanks.
Francisca Heerbanns were my favorite unit as the Franks in the Barbarian Invasion expansion for Rome: Total War. While the bouncing was not a thing in the game, their franciscas were ludicrously powerful, and could even tear through heavier Saxon and even Roman shields.
+Sawed Off Laser Still prefer my berserkers...XD
+wu1ming9shi Berserkers were really shit in MP though, insane in single player because AI is bad at managing missile units.
A francisca was a known historical battlefield weapon, and I have made an observation of its behaviour. I don't think anyone threw knives at formations of troops to break them up just before contact.
Ah, so they were inspired by the bouncy destructiveness of pommels
Truly the most destructive tool to end someone rightly.
so meta
***** Ending someone rightly is never a laughing matter
@Catachan1brainleaf Pila would be effective against all types of shieldwall. In the case of hoplite phalanxes, not much air volume in front would be filled with spear.
I adore coming upon an old lindybeige video I’ve never seen!!
Of all my life, Mr. Llyod. you are the best and most entertaining youtuber. Your body language and verbal language fit so well together, I want you to cover all possible topics.
I happen to have experience throwing varieties of spears and axes,and or javelins and hatchets, and both are really good and can hit hard and be thrown far. Its just a matter of practice. What I liked more about throwing hatchets and small axes is that even when the point did not stick to the target it, it still would hit hard, and in some cases crack our wood targets. (in this case, planks of wood from an old fence). The sound that makes is both frightining and thrilling, excellent fun!
I know some axe throwers myself and they are shit hot at it! if you practice, it is very possible to repeatedly hit your target every time without bounce. That's if you know where your SUPPOSED to throw it. You should look at Mike Loade's interpretation. His experiments showed that a significantly aimed and powered throw could even burst a shield. I certainly don't think there would be a situation where one group is simultaneously chucking their axes at another group, in a volley so to speak (that's what bows and arrows were for). Mike describes how a warrior might charge an enemy, and while sprinting towards him, mill one axe into his shield, and then another for close measure. Even if it didn't penetrate armour, It completely disorientates the opponent and even sometimes decimates his shield by the time the warrior is on him, and has his main weapon drawn. Combat isn't always about directly inflicting damage, but getting the upper hand.
do you have a link to Mike Loade's interpretation or at least can tell me what work of his its from?
who would have a shield that split from one strike?- what a monumentally useless thing that would be!
But why strike the enemy directly if having it bounce around causes mass panic? Why not have it bounce around? It could easily become more effective to have 10 men not know whether they will be slain by an individual axe than to kill 1 straightup. Especially if 1 man is, ultimately, killed by the the bouncing axe. Perhaps the tactics were used in conjunction?
Nice video. I like all you "A point about..." videos. Just a few comments. I recently began throwing axes, tomahaws, and franciscas. It's a fun, inexpensive hobbyfor those interested. I agree with two points of your video: 1) franciscas were used similar to pilums in order to wound/kill closing ranks of warriors just prior to melee combat. and 2) The francisca - due to its forward rotation - can skip,bounce, hop off the ground or another warrior to strike someone else.
So the Franciscas are like those thrown bug weapons in Half Life 1 that just bounce around everywhere hitting multiple enemies.
Except fransiscas are reusable.
Also, how's it hanging Saddam?
I can just imagine right before the two armies meet in battle, the Franks throw their axes, then the enemy gets hit in the back of the head by them just when the Franks get within sword or spear range. The enemy instinctively ducks forward, and the Franks stab them all in the top of their heads. All you really need is one moment of hesitation to gain the upper hand.
@Krampus: Not anymore of course, that would be silly. But back in the day, absolutely.
Štěpán Hýbl armies were quite organized back then aswell.. i wouldnt call greek and roman tactics underdeveloped
My mother's name is Francisca congratulations you earned a follower
in age of empires 2 the Frank elite unit had a throwing axe. it's ridiculously large but still.
The bouncing would have been trivial to put in the game too; just add splash damage. AFAIK the game doesn't though.
+Timothy Heimbach It's a massive double bearded long axe. Hilariously inaccurate, but fun to watch one unit take a bunch of massive axes travelling at high speeds and shrug them off.
Mike M oh yeah, I was just saying that something knew something about them. Albeit not much.
Timothy Heimbach By inaccurate I meant historically inaccurate, FYI. :)
+Mike M Yeah, but you forget that the game was very pixely. So if you want to show something, you have to make it very stupendously big...Atleast that's what i think was the reason they did that. It's possible it just looked cool too to them too.
Nor should anyone else! Your humor displays a hint of Monty Python series word for word flavoring.
Having spent plenty of time messing about with both such weapons I feel that I can state quite equivocally that they are both bloody good and worth carrying. The javelin is great from a distance, but your going to have to break stride and formation to get the footing right. The back end of it, often pointy can stick your comrade behind you in the shin, and it is really quite obvious to the enemy what your about to do, so they can prepare themselves for impact, although thrown in volleys prior to advancing could probably do a nasty number on your the other side. The Axe/ francisca/ tomahawk can be thrown very well from the shoulder mid stride, with enough force to at least undermine the integrity of the opposing shield wall a little if you fail to actually stick a man with the edge. Also, the man you are closing with cannot be sure if you are going to throw it or chop with it, and a secondary weapon (why not a seax?) can be held ready behind the shield to be taken in your right hand just before contact. Thus you close with an at least slightly weaker shield wall and that I think, Is well worth the hassle of carrying the awkward shaped thingy.
"Randomness"
I like the sound of that.
1:22 "I distinctly remember making three because I *jungled* with them"
Not necessarily an S shaped handle. They'd probably be made of a broken off tree branch, which still has a lot of springiness, but requires much less time and effort to make into a handle, and therefore much more eficiant for something you'd throw
Who says the franks didn't have craftsmen? Yeah, the poorer quality ones might just be tree branches, but the other ones would be worked. Just like how every individual arrow shaft is whittled.
another aspect is of course that an axe - as we all know is the favourite weapon of the Vikings as well - is a tool. You use it for stripping branches of trees, cut logs into shape, etc. When assembling an army of frankish tribesmen you can expect them to take what kind of weapon they got available. A sword is an expensive thing, and you can't use it for much else than cutting down people. And you don't do that quite often. Most people would try to avoid it as far as possible. great film btw. :)
@GhostXDog Please believe me that I am very conscious of the difference between duelling and mass battle. Please also accept that I cannot deal with every aspect of a topic in a five minute video. Remember too that most foes the franciscas were thrown at would have had large shields.
I love throwing axes, though the ones I use have a more tomahawk shape, and I think they're a bit heavier to a francesca. I tried out a brace of francescas a few weeks ago at an SCA event and I found them a bit light and the balance was wonky, though I bet with a good bit of practice that wouldnt have been such an issue.
I love it in movies and whatever when they show the +1 to lethal blow throwing knives of instant death and its just this little thing you'd probably be better using at a cocktail party to spear gerkins. You have to have some mass to make it feal right when you throw it.
Great timing of this video (for me). I just received one Friday. I am hoping to try it out tomorrow.
This is a right lenght of videos, Nicholas. Great job! - Argentina.
I know a lot of things about the Francs. I studied their battles techniques and my response is: Yes, they did use it. Here you say that javenin is more practical. Yes it is indeed, and the Francs used them more than axes !
But the francisque is useful as: -psychological weapon. It's very frightening to see those axes flying over you then bumping all around with noises.
-They were mostly used by the nobility. It was a way for them to be separated from the lower people.
- They were used just before the impact of the charge, and it forced the ennemy to protect themselves and distracted them on this crucial moment.
-to conclude with, it has more impact force than a javelin, so if it was well trown it could be fairly effective. .. In some cases only.
So it was mainly used for traditional and psychological reasons, but was effective enough ( If not, the francisque wouldn't have lasted long)
Lindybeige, you damn Brits and your nice wool shirts. I am always jealous of your wool shirts, and tweed jackets, and hats. I used to have a Welsh hat, and i wore it till it was down to nothing, even after the button on top went missing. Loved that hat!
I'm surprised and impressed that he's kept those same magazine clippings on his wall for 10 years.
@beardiebuddy Yes, I see your point, although I don't know if the kpinga was a battlefield weapon. I know very little about African warfare.
I don't know if Francisca were used bouncing or not, but I think they would have been efficient enough without it. Your principal argument is that it's not as efficient as using javelings but the Francisca was a cultural weapon and I think it could have been enough for the Franks to prefer them.
But the Franscisca was also, apparently, carried by people who were going in melee, having a whole bunch of them wasn't needed as they would only be able to throw a few before making contact, longer range wouldn't be that interesting as they closed in. And the Francisca, contrary to a Javelin, can be used in melee.
Also... I'm skeptical about dodging them. Sure if you were facing an axe thrower in an open field maybe. But in battle? While charging? With comrades on either side preventing you from sidestepping? And even if you could dodge... the guy behind you is probably an ally, and now he'll be taking an axe to the face. And if there are hundreds of Francisca being thrown at the same time... It's way more likely soldier used their shield to block the throws.
Now in this situation both Javelins and Francisca would most likely stick in the shield, weighting it down, but I think Javelins would be easy, or at least easier, to break off compared to axes.
Early medeival formations were much looser than previous formations.
Franciscas were used by the Franks and Vikings as a throwing axe. They'd mainly be thrown at shield walls before an onslaught. And the martial arts from Honolulu regularly train to avoid javelin throws
There was some mention both of Franciscas as throwing axes and the fact that they bounce in some documentary I have run across. Shame on me for making assumptions, but I had thought that all this had been found recorded in accounts of battles.
Throwing axes of varying sorts fill a niche between javelin-style weapons and melee weapons. Javelins are not at all durable in a melee compared to more traditional melee weapons. They also don't have the weight, the heft of a throwing axe. The throwing axe lacks in range, but makes up for it in kinetic energy transfer. I personally like to play with tomahawks, and they have this dual purpose of a strong melee weapon that can be reliably thrown at targets inside of 8-10meters. Francisca's have larger heads than tomahawks so I imagine they could cleave wooden shields nicely too.
The point of bouncing/ricochets is a good one. The initial target may have blocked it with his shield, but it then ricochet's into the head of the guy next to him. Brilliant point!
I was always fascinated as to why franciscas were used as during the period throwing an axe you were likely to never see again tended to be expensive. But i also found the bouncing effect to be one main reason for its's use. The rationale i created was during the period it was used it faced predominantly shield wall. Now a spear and arrow is likely to hit the shield as you can only aim it at the person. The axe however could be aimed low or directly at the ground in front of an attacker on purpose as to take out legs of the oncoming advance and effectively go under the wall of shields.
Sounds a bit like an axe version of a boomerang. Australian aboriginals would use non-returning boomerangs to hunt kangaroos (which can be as large as humans) and other game by throwing them at the ground in front of the animal. Upon impact with the ground the rotational inertia would kick it into a higher translational velocity meaning that even wood with an "edge" could give horrific wounds. A whole heap of light boomerangxes hurled at the feet of enemy shield walls where the legs are often not as protected as the torso would cause havoc.
I wonder if they threw them on high parabolic-arcs, so that they had more power when bouncing.
Also a note after the bounce, think about how much of a tripping hazard they would be in a tight formation where people would accidently be kicking them up and around or stomping on them.
@lebarosky If the pilum was so great, why did it evolve into the plumbatum and then the dart? Actually, the metalworking aspect is not an explanation in my opinion. The francisca required more metal, better quality metal, and the barbarians had their equivalent anyway - the angon.
Here are some other things to consider: 1) the thickets/forests of northern europe did not give the pilum/spear any significant "killing ground" advantage over the thrown axe. In Italy or Greece, yes, but in northern Europe, no. 2) With the francisca, the "beard" oftheaxe points up in order to increase range of axe rotation in which the axe will stick in a target. In other words, if you are slightly too far away in the rotation cycle of the axe, the axe will stick even if it overrotates.
Javelins were not long. Re-enactors find that with a bit of practice, they can run and get off three javelins while still running at a foe before contact..
@MadNumForce If it is possible to make a straight-handled francisca by inserting from the top, then an S-curve is possible. Even an extreme S-curve would only require a very slightly bigger hole, and the wedges could have been wooden.
The javelin also uses much less iron than an axe. As iron was an expensive material, this may account for them being relatively more common.
Why is it snowing in your house?
I was wondering how many noticed he now lives on the moon, Pandora, with seed pods flying around everywhere like snow..
I wondered the same. I don't know what that is. My best guess is that while setting up the camera I somehow knocked the Habitat globe around the ceiling light, and that this had dust on top of it.
I've always wondered why someone would use throwing axes. Thanks, I like this explanation!
@MadNumForce Doesn't have to be very S-curved, and possibly doesn't even need to be S-curved at all. The ones we threw had slight S-curves. perhaps straight ones would have bounced as well.
In Viking period,the warriors ware often use two small axes together and he can carry on his back a bigger axe or a sword.Or if the formation was broken,the warrior with a one handed axe can use a francisca for defending himself or attacking(if he lost his shield)...I don't think that they were design only for throwing but if you know how to throw,you can throw it.
another thing to take into account is the psychological impacts of the wounds. Puncture wounds are very neat in comparison to an axe wound
I found this video 10 years too late...so many problems in my life could've been prevented had I only seen this back then :(
Well, the French brought the Hawk over to begin with, and they brought the "throwing hawk" as well. THs act in a similar manner to what you've described here, but the later steels allowed for much sharper blades which caused more damage when bouncing about. They never saw heavy use though, as muskets and rifles advanced far too quickly and you would be shot before you could make throwing range. Hawks took on a "sidearm" role very quickly, and throwing hawks became a gaming device.
The only reason I can begin to comprehend your videos is my childhood obsession with Diablo II
If you stick a curved handle into the wide eye from below, this handle should be wider/thicker then the eye (in order to stay there). I have no old franciscas around but if you have (in a museum or so) things can be easily checked - if the eye is conical with the wide part up, then the handle was inserted from above so we can assume it was rather straight then s-shaped. If the eye is narrow then the handle was probably inserted from below with a wedge. So check and tell us please
I was unaware the Franks made the hafts of their weapons out of flubber. You learn something new every day.
I think lindybeige needs a follow-up video of Francsica throwing in action.
@deepashtray When was this made? I've not seen it.
That largely depends on who you're fighting, how many there are, and where you're fighting. One cannot say that the javelin is just outright superior to the francisca or vice versa. In somewhere like the Black of Germany the francisca would have the advantage due to it's dual usage as a melee weapon and to clear up brush, it's also probably more durable than a javelin as well, and easier to carry in dense undergrowth. While in a flat area such as in Italy the opposite holds true.
Even longer javelin-esque cousins can be thrown on the charge, see: Roman Legionnaries. Axes may have been smaller and handier, but all the more reason for them to be the weapon for the melee, rather than a formation-disrupting projectile.
The physical appearance of a francisca would also indicate it was designed to be less weight on the user whilst allowing the same motions and equal or insignificantly less damage in comparison to typical axe bits with more heftiness about them.
The theory I read was they would specifically throw them at the ground so they would bounce up under a shield.
Italy isn't a flat area, most of the country is reasonably rugged and much of the north is quite mountainous. It contains a wide range of different terrains including heavily wooded areas - just like Germany. Also, a large heavy knife or bill-hook is the typical device for clearing brush, axes for felling (but not war-axes as you want them in good condition for fighting).
I dont remember where did I read it, or see it, but I remember that Franciscas were designed to be used in melee or thrown away, and sinse it bounced, it could be use in a few interesting ways, like when the enemy is retreating and you may not reach them with a normal throw, the axe would still have the chance to hit the enemy. Rather unique and interesting ability.
Possibly, but we just don't know.
Hi again! So, here's a thing. I don't know if you guys forged the franciscas you spoke of but one good theory (if I say so myself) is that it is easy to forge an axe using that shape. Take a big bar of metal, hammer it into a curve, then flatten out the front into your bit (which is the proper name for an axe blade, not used as a colloquialism. I am American). In short, economy and simplicity would allow you to make plenty of them to supply your troops with.
Very good analysis, as always. This one in particular strikes my fancy.
I've heard of African tribal weapons that are basically sharp pieces of metal, barely formed into some sort of pointy/sharp/flying shape, used as a way to, from an intermediate distance, break enemies ranks by throwing these at them just before engaging in melee combat. I guess, this purpose of using havoc produced by basically shrapnel, to break ranks could be what franciscas were used for
And good against camel legs too.
Franciskas are awesome in convinient usage. This was just another axe design, not just for throwing
You could also carry them attached to your waist, where they'd take up less space than a 2-3 meter javelin across your back or in your hands.
My understanding was that they were a short to medium range weapon, and fighters would carry several to use on battlefields while charging and while pressing the attack, and then pick them up and reuse them as they took ground. Axes (well, hawks) are much more legitimate throwing weapons than knives. Its plausible, if you fight in packed formations like that.
Fair. I have no personal experience or to back this up. I did read about it on Wikipedia, and have heard it in common life. Since I can't throw any weapon save a dodgeball effectively, I am willing to believe that a javelin is better overall. If given the choice, I would probably hang on to a francisca for later hand-to-hand use.
Interesting video. The shape of the handle can be altered after hafting with humid heat. One can insert a straight handle then bend it into shape. Hafting them like Tomahawks by inserting from the top seems practical to me, then one can easily replace the haft. It seems to me that the haft ought to follow the edge of the Fransisca. The pointy ends of the axe bit can be used for stabbing (top) or grappling foes shield (bottom) in close combat. Throwing them at attacking cavalry from behind a shield wall with spears poking out? And of course very practical in everyday chores.
I'd say these are damn deadly to cavalry. The potential force that would be hitting an enemy can't be ignored: If a horse is charging and gets struck, that horse is going down. And you don't have to hit the head: if they get hit by one bouncing into a stomach or leg, that's the end of the horse.
More I think of it, the more likely this is to be true: if they were capable of devastating a cavalry charge, that's one hell of a good reason to be scared of them as a 'tribal' weapon!
Seems like a Gothic variation on the pilum; throw it, force the guy to catch it in his shield (thus lowering it's efficiency), then charge to melee.
One last set of comments, then I'll shut up. I've tried various scenarios to ascertain how the francisca would have been best put to use as a formation weapon. In my opinion, a warrior should only carry 3 franciscas (2 to throw and one to use in melee). The group should discharge an axe at 9-10 paces from the enemy (~10 yards), then again at 4-5 paces (`5 yards) from the enemy. Then close as a group to fight close quarters. Again, just my opinion...
@Wikingersohn93
A thrown axe will not burst a proper, covered shield. It MAY get stuck in, but more likely than not, it's going to bounce off, regardless of whether the blade hits first. Leather covered limewood is incredibly flexible and tough.
One francusca tucked in a belt would be easy, but I wouldn't want many more. I'm afraid I cannot at this moment give any firm evidence for the S-bend in the hafts. I cannot recall seeing any surviving artefacts, nor can I think of an ancient picture of one, but this is how they are usually reconstructed, and it does seem to work.
The element of surprise is strong with this axe
“You can’t try to persuade the enemy to be terrified of your weapon”
Japan: starts sweating
I *love* the little animations! They suit your storytelling/lecture style so well; you should use them more often, if you can.
@Enysvar Why would a cracked head in any way contradict what I say in this video?
The Invention of the Francisca:
"Pierre, why you make axe head and haft shaped like wiggly Italian noodle instead of good straight Frankish baguette?"
"It was an accident Louis, but look what happens when I throw it."
*boing*
"Au hau hau, oh la la!"
"Oui oui, au hau hau!"
*au hau haus in Frankish intensify*
In case that they would "bounce up" on contact with the ground, they could be used alongside arrowfire.