Conversational English in 1586

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  • Опубликовано: 20 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 2 тыс.

  • @djitidjiti6703
    @djitidjiti6703 7 месяцев назад +4247

    "Let us have a reckoning". Gotta remember that one next time I'm at Aldi

    • @infpdreams
      @infpdreams 7 месяцев назад +169

      As someone going to Aldi later today, I'll test the waters with it for you! If I do not update, expect the worst...

    • @stevenmontoya9950
      @stevenmontoya9950 7 месяцев назад +132

      "Let us have a reckoning" sounds like a Florence and the Machine song

    • @GadolElohai
      @GadolElohai 7 месяцев назад +36

      Report, good sir/ma'am?

    • @clavichord
      @clavichord 7 месяцев назад +98

      Fare ye well to Aldi!

    • @SCAJolly
      @SCAJolly 7 месяцев назад +68

      I loved hearing that! It's what you'd say today in German, rechnung, or Norwegian, regning, meaning "the bill". You'd call the waiter after you've finished your meal and request it.

  • @RichardTheFourth32
    @RichardTheFourth32 7 месяцев назад +5299

    Sounds like a modern-day Swede speaking English after learning it from an Irishman

    • @thefloop2813
      @thefloop2813 6 месяцев назад +210

      Oh my god. This. You nailed it, and all of a sudden im having flashbacks to the ranting swede from sheep in the big city.

    • @stevemartin7464
      @stevemartin7464 6 месяцев назад +5

      Lol

    • @marwood1969
      @marwood1969 6 месяцев назад +14

      Yes! THAT! Loooool.

    • @isabellasanpablo
      @isabellasanpablo 6 месяцев назад +113

      I actually have a friend with this exact background (Swedish, practiced English primarily with an Irishman growing up) and honestly you're kinda dead on LOL

    • @davidb8539
      @davidb8539 6 месяцев назад +7

      Unbelievable, that's what I thought

  • @HANKTHEDANKEST
    @HANKTHEDANKEST 7 месяцев назад +3256

    I love this sort of thing. Just a French lad trying to help his fellow French refugees, and accidentally creates a brilliant primer on honest-to-goodness 16th c. street English, not the "proper" stuff taught at school. I'm sure Mr. Bellot would've been pleased to see us finding such utility in his humble phrasebook, all these centuries later.

    • @Iceland874
      @Iceland874 7 месяцев назад +37

      Totally fascinating! Thank you for an inspiring video.

    • @cd-zw2tt
      @cd-zw2tt 7 месяцев назад +113

      its funny because more of these sort of language-to-language transliterations are incredibly helpful at preserving a time's pronounciation (in both languages)

    • @katiekawaii
      @katiekawaii 7 месяцев назад +30

      It's incredible that we have it.

    • @nostalji93
      @nostalji93 7 месяцев назад +5

      I am not sure how humble it is to write something and than translate it twice.^^
      The only reason I imagine him being so pedanticly is either, because that was his character or he wanted to profit of it.

    • @MattNeufy
      @MattNeufy 6 месяцев назад +26

      Regardless, he was just some schmuck as we all are, and probably knew it too! I don’t do much of anything to directly benefit future generations, doubt he did either.
      Well, he did write a book, he was proud of all the work he put into it over the years, and was happy with the profit it (hopefully) brought him.
      Love to learn who he was, what he did in his free time, where he lived, was he an introvert or an extrovert (as someone who wrote a book about conversation in another language, it’s kind of a toss up!)

  • @jasonwateano6775
    @jasonwateano6775 6 месяцев назад +1631

    I love how the whole video is just some random footage of some grass.

    • @Skuu
      @Skuu 6 месяцев назад +114

      So close to touching it, yet so far

    • @MolecularMachine
      @MolecularMachine 6 месяцев назад +67

      And isopods!

    • @Boamere
      @Boamere 6 месяцев назад +21

      Woodlice everywhere

    • @aaronmarks9366
      @aaronmarks9366 6 месяцев назад +29

      Rolly-pollies

    • @_Emit_
      @_Emit_ 6 месяцев назад +21

      peak youtube

  • @nunyabiznez6381
    @nunyabiznez6381 6 месяцев назад +961

    My great grandfather, a former native of Galway, born 140 years ago, used "tis" a lot. He also would pronounce a lot of words with extra syllables and then skip entire words if he thought you would think them implied by context. "Tis fine moranin, tain't na rain in sight." is an example. Or "ga fetcha me slippers lad, under bed." would be another. He died in 1964. He learned Irish from birth and spoke it exclusively until he was in his teens when he found it necessary to learn English to transact business in the nearest town, Loughrea.

    • @ladydynamite7
      @ladydynamite7 6 месяцев назад +81

      'Tis still gets used in Ireland. Hiberno-English retains features of older forms of English alongside influences from the Irish language.Younger people such as myself use "'tis" slightly jokingly, I think, but it keeps it alive. It would be a shame for us to lose our dialect, after all.

    • @SuperTed.
      @SuperTed. 6 месяцев назад +4

      Cool

    • @ebenezercunningham9073
      @ebenezercunningham9073 6 месяцев назад +13

      Thanks for this little bit of history. God bless.

    • @RosieMe5
      @RosieMe5 6 месяцев назад +5

      Thank you for sharing

    • @nathanbarker616
      @nathanbarker616 6 месяцев назад +12

      As you probabaly know, many words in Northern England are often inferred. I live in West Yorkshire and much of my vocabulary is inferred

  • @geishasha
    @geishasha 7 месяцев назад +4317

    Always up for a pint of wine

    • @KeefsCattys
      @KeefsCattys 7 месяцев назад +86

      I'd prefer 568ml though

    • @FromTheFens219
      @FromTheFens219 7 месяцев назад +45

      Sam Allardyce would fit right in

    • @Amesang
      @Amesang 7 месяцев назад +73

      It comes in pints?

    • @KeefsCattys
      @KeefsCattys 7 месяцев назад +3

      I think they did that sadly . It wasn't necessary :(

    • @qeithwreid7745
      @qeithwreid7745 7 месяцев назад +65

      A cheeky pint of wine

  • @AbhNormal
    @AbhNormal 7 месяцев назад +1584

    I'm honestly amazed at how comprehensible this is. I had expected much more Middle-English era words and grammar to be present, especially in the middle of the Great Vowel Shift, but now I'm happy that, were I to acquire a time machine, I could have a pint with the lads 400 years ago 😂

    • @Galenus1234
      @Galenus1234 7 месяцев назад +223

      I think that sentence structures, pronunciation and vocabulary are unfamiliar to a speaker of modern English, but yet they are understandable (especially when they were spoken slowly). A quite short exposure to this Middle English speech (maybe some weeks just living amongst 16th century Londoners, NOT formal training) should be enough to bridge the language gap.
      I bet that there are remote *modern* dialects of English, that are harder to understand.

    • @mesechabe
      @mesechabe 7 месяцев назад +179

      this is early modern English, progressed well past Middle English even of Chaucer’s time. He died 1400. In 1586, the time of Bellot’s book, Shakespeare was 22 years old.

    • @stephanleo
      @stephanleo 7 месяцев назад +10

      Then you'd miss the lads by 38 years ;)

    • @greva2904
      @greva2904 7 месяцев назад +41

      @@Galenus1234I’m from Northamptonshire, though I’ve lived on the south coast for 30 years. About 18 years ago I was talking to some drunk geordies and I could only understand about two out of every five words. You’d think being from the midlands I’d have had more chance of understanding them than a southerner would… but nope!

    • @m00zic
      @m00zic 7 месяцев назад +13

      ​@@greva2904 I am sometimes a drunk Geordie, and I feel like there's a few similarities especially to the way older people used to speak in the 90s. They would have been born at the turn of the century if you're wondering. I do wonder if we just continue the southern dialect from previous generations as we stubbornly cling on to our regional speech over generations.

  • @billpotter7162
    @billpotter7162 7 месяцев назад +1759

    "How do you?" = Howdy

    • @flaming_bentley
      @flaming_bentley 6 месяцев назад +64

      Oh wow!!

    • @bawbehh
      @bawbehh 6 месяцев назад +131

      The interesting thing about this, is it's held it's meaning depending on where you say it. Saying Howdy in the south us usually results in an answer responding to the question. Where it's just a simple greeting in other places

    • @dannyboy-ym3uu
      @dannyboy-ym3uu 6 месяцев назад +25

      Pint of wine ?

    • @peteg4957
      @peteg4957 6 месяцев назад +27

      @@dannyboy-ym3uuwe shall go together, if you will

    • @丫o
      @丫o 6 месяцев назад +80

      My guess is that it could be a contraction of “How do ye do” to “How’d ye do” to “Howdy do” and finally to “Howdy”.

  • @dmitrigheorgheni
    @dmitrigheorgheni 7 месяцев назад +591

    'What do you lack?' sounds like my late grandmother, who lived in the Appalachian mountains, when asking if we wanted seconds at the dinner table. This is a fascinating book! Thanks for the excellent video.

    • @inlemur
      @inlemur 7 месяцев назад +63

      I grew up in rural eastern middle Tennessee in the 80s and 90s and this type of expression was absolutely normal

    • @rakninja
      @rakninja 7 месяцев назад +84

      a lot of appalachian communities have been isolated from the rest of the world for quite a bit, so much so that linguistically they're said to be closer to the form of english from just before the period this video discusses.

    • @HweolRidda
      @HweolRidda 7 месяцев назад +19

      ​​@@rakninjaI'd be interested to see that quantified. Even in isolation language evolves. Is the speech of Appalachia closer to English of the 1500's or just different in different ways?
      It also depends on which 1500s dialect you compare it to. I hear a number of things I associate with Northern Ireland, but that accent probably hadn't formed yet,

    • @rakninja
      @rakninja 7 месяцев назад +5

      @@HweolRidda if i recall the research, it's mostly referencing the great glottal shift. i wish i could help point you to the correct papers, but you know how youtube comments don't like links.
      it is pretty dang fascinating, though!

    • @amazingdoggo
      @amazingdoggo 7 месяцев назад +16

      I've heard it all my life in west Texas, too. Plenty of people here whose ancestors came from the southern states within the last 150 years or so, of course. But it's pronounced "like" here. For example, if you're short of money when it comes time to pay, your companion (or a friendly bystander) might ask, "How much do you like?"

  • @timoloef
    @timoloef 7 месяцев назад +658

    I love that old "how is it with you?" ... literally how it's said in the Netherlands and Norway

    • @DIOBrando-wl4xq
      @DIOBrando-wl4xq 6 месяцев назад +41

      hoe gaat het met jou

    • @timoloef
      @timoloef 6 месяцев назад +18

      @@DIOBrando-wl4xq ja, of: hoe is het met jou? Kan allebei :)

    • @DIOBrando-wl4xq
      @DIOBrando-wl4xq 6 месяцев назад

      @@timoloef fakka met jou

    • @robertsaget6918
      @robertsaget6918 6 месяцев назад +7

      They greet each other "How are you Now?" In Canada

    • @timoloef
      @timoloef 6 месяцев назад

      @@robertsaget6918 or: hey bud

  • @MURDERPILLOW.
    @MURDERPILLOW. 7 месяцев назад +2194

    This is also how people speak when i hide in the bushes to hear them talk

    • @Ithirahad
      @Ithirahad 7 месяцев назад +68

      Ah yes, the legendary bushes of time. Not to be confused with particularly overgrown thyme plants.

    • @onlymeok
      @onlymeok 7 месяцев назад +28

      But the trees speak Vietnamese.

    • @jimmyflawless
      @jimmyflawless 7 месяцев назад

      Were you searching for mutilated porn mags?

    • @MegaZeta
      @MegaZeta 6 месяцев назад +11

      I hide in the people to hear bushes talk. Built different

    • @Everettalla
      @Everettalla 6 месяцев назад

      Uhhhhhh…..

  • @kerridwynntheacegoblin6465
    @kerridwynntheacegoblin6465 6 месяцев назад +199

    Totally using ‘shall we have a reckoning’ when paying for something

    • @marumiyuhime
      @marumiyuhime 5 месяцев назад +28

      them fighting words in some places, be careful mate now

    • @mrsrjlupin3650
      @mrsrjlupin3650 4 месяца назад +19

      My elderly relatives (UK, Midlands) would say "Reckon up" e.g. a bill, or when they went to a checkout. They would have grown up close to the Black Country, where Old English is still presrved in the dialect

    • @michelvanbriemen3459
      @michelvanbriemen3459 2 месяца назад +10

      "Reckoning" sounds a lot like "rekening" in this context. A rekening is the Dutch word for a calculation and often refers to the bill yet to be paid.

    • @mrsrjlupin3650
      @mrsrjlupin3650 2 месяца назад +3

      @@michelvanbriemen3459Same as "rechnen" in German. My elderly mum says "reckon up the bill" in a shop/restaurant.

    • @sieasunder2871
      @sieasunder2871 2 месяца назад +1

      @@mrsrjlupin3650 Yes, my mum (in her 70s now) has always used 'reckoning up' when doing her income and expenditures. I like it. It is a good Old English word: reckon. Reckon, of course, really means to calculate, unlike now in Britain where it is often used interchangeably with 'to think'.

  • @pipipip815
    @pipipip815 7 месяцев назад +327

    I found the phrase right at the end of this video really interesting, “what is of the clock?” “it is two of the clock” and explains why we say 2 o’clock now.

    • @highdesertutah
      @highdesertutah 6 месяцев назад +16

      In the US it’s more like 2 a’clock.

    • @tristantheoofer2
      @tristantheoofer2 6 месяцев назад +3

      actually yea it does. what about the "i used to do (x)" thingy tho? like now to me in modern english it sounds kinda archaic ngl. like i think its one of the only actual archaic things people still use regularly

    • @electrictroy2010
      @electrictroy2010 6 месяцев назад +5

      @tristantheoofer2 I used to do exercise. How is this archaic? I don’t understand

    • @electrictroy2010
      @electrictroy2010 6 месяцев назад +4

      @pipipip815 I thought it was obvious 2 o’clock was an abbreviation for a longer phrase. “2 on the clock” is what I always thought it meant
      .

    • @wiseoldfool
      @wiseoldfool 5 месяцев назад +3

      How goes the night? At odds with morning which is which. What's amiss? You are, and do not know it.

  • @z.l.burington1183
    @z.l.burington1183 7 месяцев назад +123

    Listening to that haggle conversation was incredible. I was cast back in time. Thank you.

  • @SFforlife
    @SFforlife 6 месяцев назад +110

    I may not sell them so.
    Farewell then.
    Haha love how haggling is still the same even all these years later.

    • @dleechristy
      @dleechristy 4 месяца назад +16

      very slightly more polite than the alternate: "Alright, Fook Ye Off now..."

    • @SFforlife
      @SFforlife 4 месяца назад +1

      Absolutely it was lol

  • @StarkRG
    @StarkRG 7 месяцев назад +106

    I like how this is pretty much how conversational or utilitarian language books are written today. Everyday dialogues, sometimes a bit stilted, and often presented in the same three columns: the language to be learned, the meaning in your own language, and a transliteration of the new language in your own phonetics.

  • @vitamins-and-iron
    @vitamins-and-iron 7 месяцев назад +1451

    “god be wy” looks like how someone might type “god be with you” over text lol

    • @davidz2690
      @davidz2690 7 месяцев назад +256

      It’s actually pretty fascinating as this is in the midst of “god be with you” turning into “goodbye” and then “bye”

    • @m00zic
      @m00zic 7 месяцев назад +26

      In Geordie speak it would be W ye (or w yu) tho the phrase has died since people don't tend to say that phrase now

    • @ericlewisauthor
      @ericlewisauthor 7 месяцев назад +9

      Elizabethan AF

    • @jimthain8777
      @jimthain8777 7 месяцев назад +25

      Just wait til the younger folk start pronouncing English the way they text it!
      That will be a serious headache for older folk.

    • @davidz2690
      @davidz2690 7 месяцев назад +39

      @@jimthain8777 well we’ve had texting first 25 years and no sign of that happening lol

  • @anarchodolly
    @anarchodolly 7 месяцев назад +412

    We still routinely greet people with "How..." in the north-east. "How lad, ya alreet?"

    • @Kerithanos
      @Kerithanos 7 месяцев назад +31

      As an American, if I were greeted with the word "how", I would be compelled to include in my reply a phrase such as "paleface" or "smoke-um peace pipe" 🤔

    • @stumccabe
      @stumccabe 7 месяцев назад +28

      @@Kerithanos I know that the first native American to make contact with the Pilgrims of Plymouth Colony spoke English. His first words were "Welcome Englishmen". I wonder whether the "how" greeting was actually borrowed from English. btw I live in Plymouth England where the Mayflower set sail from.

    • @mistressofstones
      @mistressofstones 7 месяцев назад +2

      ​@Kerithanos seems the native Americans were speaking good English lol 😊

    • @philroberts7238
      @philroberts7238 7 месяцев назад +6

      @@mistressofstones That particular one was - it seems he had actually crossed the Atlantic on an English merchant ship.

    • @ZeroGDucks
      @ZeroGDucks 7 месяцев назад +8

      In the Guaraní language, the common greeting is "Mba'éichapa", which is basically "How" plus a "pa!" to make it a question 😆

  • @satohime
    @satohime 7 месяцев назад +125

    thank you for the tips, going to gradually pepper these phrases into my casual speech to subconsciously manipulate my friends into adopting them and spreading it to their friends

    • @KateGladstone
      @KateGladstone 6 месяцев назад +8

      How has that been going? I’d like to know!

    • @jsmithy643
      @jsmithy643 6 месяцев назад +4

      YES.

    • @CiphersWon
      @CiphersWon 3 месяца назад +3

      let’s revive the heck out this old english

  • @sionnachs_workshop
    @sionnachs_workshop 6 месяцев назад +392

    I'm a simple man. I see a video about conversational English in 1586 and I click

  • @Sweetthang9
    @Sweetthang9 4 месяца назад +66

    THIS IS WHY THE INTERNET IS GREAT. It brings me joy that you share this for free. I commend you.

  • @C_In_Outlaw3817
    @C_In_Outlaw3817 7 месяцев назад +571

    7:22 lmao he said “farewell, then”
    😂😂
    That made me laugh idk why. I wish haggling like this was available everywhere

    • @UmbrellaGent
      @UmbrellaGent 7 месяцев назад +108

      A perfect phrase for a passive-agressive goodbye.

    • @C_In_Outlaw3817
      @C_In_Outlaw3817 7 месяцев назад +57

      @@UmbrellaGent
      Lol my Grammy is from TN. Whenever I ask her “Grammy aren’t you gonna tip him?” She always says “shit, I’ll tip my hat and say good day, but I’ll be damn if I got any more to pay.”

    • @pyrenees2695
      @pyrenees2695 7 месяцев назад +36

      @@UmbrellaGent I wonder if the dialogue was passive agressive for the time, if this type of passive-agressive was normal, or if it wasn't at all

    • @C_In_Outlaw3817
      @C_In_Outlaw3817 7 месяцев назад +11

      @@pyrenees2695
      Nah I think he was just saying bye.

    • @qeithwreid7745
      @qeithwreid7745 7 месяцев назад +6

      @@UmbrellaGentit’s like how I say “laters” if I want to be passive-aggressive. Just as in Dizzee Rascal: “playa hatoh? see you latoh!”

  • @Nea1wood
    @Nea1wood 7 месяцев назад +280

    I don't know a lot about how Londoners spoke in 1586, but I do remember when I was a young child in NE England in the 1960s, that when counting money in shops, in phrases like 'two pence', 'three pence', 'six pence', people always used to stress the number and not the word 'pence'. So they said 'tuppence', 'threppence', 'sixpence' as if they were single words. The coins were known as 'tuppney, threpney and sixpenny' bits.
    But when the UK currency was decimalised in 1971, people in shops started saying, instead, "That will be six new pence, please' stressing the fact that it was new pence and not old. After a few years, they stopped saying 'new pence'. But the word pence continued to hold its stress.
    I never heard the word 'bit' used for coins any more after that. They became known as two-pence, five-pence and ten-pence pieces.
    Does anyone else remember this?

    • @mesechabe
      @mesechabe 7 месяцев назад +28

      being an American no, I don’t remember that, but I remember the word “bits” being used to indicate monetary value. There was a sports cheer in which the usage appeared for a long time, “two bits four bits, six bits, a dollar, all for the Tigers, stand up and holler!” I remember reasoning that if the progression was two bits, four bits, six bits, a dollar, then a dollar must have been eight bits, so two bits was 12 1/2 cents! I asked my dad and he had no idea what I was talking about.

    • @sluggo206
      @sluggo206 7 месяцев назад +32

      "8-bit coin" or "pieces of 8" was used for divisions of the Spanish dollar in colonial times in the Americas.

    • @Nea1wood
      @Nea1wood 7 месяцев назад +12

      @@sluggo206 And Bitcoin itself, of course! How could I have missed that? 🙂

    • @dibblethwaite
      @dibblethwaite 7 месяцев назад +5

      Yes, I remember but there was never a tuppney bit in old money.

    • @faithlesshound5621
      @faithlesshound5621 7 месяцев назад +11

      @@dibblethwaite You're right, we spoke of "tuppence" but the 2d coin only existed in Maundy Money, which was worth far more than its face value. There was, however, the half penny coin, or "hA'penny bit." It had a galleon on the back: referenced by JK Rowling in the "Galleon," the largest coin in Wizarding Britain.
      Something cheap or tawdry could be described as "tuppenny ha'penny" or worth 2.5d, which at one time was enough to send a postcard, or an unsealed Xmas card: what later became second class post. Now that costs 85p, or 17 shillings in old money: though inflation means the increase is nothing like as bad as it looks.

  • @jenniferdingenouts3203
    @jenniferdingenouts3203 7 месяцев назад +45

    I was born in Lancashire but have lived most of my life in the Netherlands.
    I speak Dutch fluently and without an English accent and am convinced that me having a broad Lancashire accent helped me as there are so many words and ways if speaking Dutch that are almost the same.
    We always hear English compared to French or German but really Dutch, Flemish and most of the Scandinavian languages are more similar.

    • @LMB2301
      @LMB2301 7 месяцев назад +8

      As a Lancashire lass living in Sweden, I can only agree! I studied languages and I once read in an authoritative book that the closest language to English is in fact Dutch, but I think the Scandi languages of Swedish, Danish and Norwegian come a close second.

    • @SusanGeyer-l4k
      @SusanGeyer-l4k 7 месяцев назад +2

      Yes, me too. Cheshire cat.

    • @DavidJohnThompson
      @DavidJohnThompson 6 месяцев назад +6

      ​@@LMB2301A week ago I was having dinner with two Danish friends. I'm a Lancashire lad, the other guest is from Yorkshire. Half way through, Lars, at of the blue said, why is it so easy for me to understand you two so easily. I couldn't find any explanation, but after your comment, I can now.

    • @benanderson89
      @benanderson89 6 месяцев назад +5

      If you find someone with a broad dialect in Sunderland or Newcastle, half the worlds are still Dutch and Scandinavian.
      I'm from Sunderland, and if I was to say "I'm going home" I'd say it in what is basically a pidgin Norwegian: "am gaan hjem".

    • @modulusshift
      @modulusshift 6 месяцев назад +3

      Dutch and Flemish really are English's closest blood relatives, and the Danelaw saw to the Scandinavian influence being stronger than the French in many dialects. It's interesting seeing a map of the Danelaw reach right up to Lancashire.

  • @history_by_lamplight
    @history_by_lamplight 7 месяцев назад +111

    What's funny about English in this time (say, 1500-1640ish) is that when subtitles are included, as you've done here, it's really easy to understand. But if the subtitles were to go away (i.e. if I were that time traveler) then I could maybe pick up about half of the conversational speech I heard. What I love about your videos is the eerieness of Middle and Early Modern English, almost like you're listening to some buried ancestral memory. I keep looking for ways to include your inspiration in my fiction. Thanks so much for this rare window into the past, Simon. ❤

    • @ugleebuggs7597
      @ugleebuggs7597 6 месяцев назад +1

      Being able to understand the words when text is included is just basic psychology, not anything to do with the era of the speech lol.

    • @electrictroy2010
      @electrictroy2010 6 месяцев назад +6

      It’s archaic but I understood every word. It’s like listening to American hillbilly

    • @marumiyuhime
      @marumiyuhime 5 месяцев назад +1

      as a speaker of new england english, i understood every word with neigh difficulty

    • @Adonnus100
      @Adonnus100 5 месяцев назад +1

      Curious, what's your fiction going to be about?

    • @history_by_lamplight
      @history_by_lamplight 4 месяца назад +1

      @@Adonnus100 Nothing directly relevant to anything in this video 😅 It's literary historical fiction and time travel (1920s) but I have a real fixation for writing language exactly as it was - or as close as possible - whether that's Ohio in the 1920s or England in the 1400s. I end up writing a lot of fictional primary source material that's referenced in the story, and (in future books) there might be undead fragments of people left over from the Middle Ages - just as a vehicle to include this kind of spoken Middle English. I'm still playing with plot elements so there's a lot I don't know yet. The first book, "Mary, Everything" was published in 2020. 🙂 Thank you for asking! ❤

  • @argonwheatbelly637
    @argonwheatbelly637 7 месяцев назад +137

    I read books from the 1500s, albeit printed in the early 1600s. Sometimes people look over my shoulder and ask me if it's Old English. "No," I tell them. "It's Early Modern English. Not too different from today, innit?" Cheers! Thanks. Lovely, this. Keep making these videos.

    • @rikwisselink-bijker
      @rikwisselink-bijker 7 месяцев назад +15

      500 years is objectively old, even for a language, so the confusion of lay people (including myself) is understandable.

    • @jsmithy643
      @jsmithy643 6 месяцев назад +5

      @@rikwisselink-bijker Old English is more than 1000 years old.

    • @rikwisselink-bijker
      @rikwisselink-bijker 6 месяцев назад +5

      @@jsmithy643 I don't know how to respond, other than with 'ok'. The colosseum is about 2000 years old, but if your house was built in the 1800s I'm still going to call it an old building.
      Perhaps a useful distinction would be 'old English' vs 'Old English'. The latter is a term of art, while the former is more of a personal opinion.

    • @jsmithy643
      @jsmithy643 6 месяцев назад +4

      @@rikwisselink-bijker While Shakespeare's form of English IS old, he did not write in Old English.

    • @rikwisselink-bijker
      @rikwisselink-bijker 6 месяцев назад +5

      @@jsmithy643 I don't believe we disagree, but it sounds to me like you think we do.

  • @mesechabe
    @mesechabe 7 месяцев назад +64

    this is what I came here for! The development of English as a spoken language. thanks Simon, for getting back to this topic.

  • @kevinjohnlancaster8333
    @kevinjohnlancaster8333 7 месяцев назад +181

    Probably one of the best talks yet.
    A controversial view but one I am growing more and more to believe is that what Shakespeare wrote in the 1590s to 1610s was NOT everyday speech of that time but was some sort of confected recollected speech from perhaps 50 years earlier and then corrupted by memory and grandeloquence.
    I have a long text written by a very articulate man, John Mayer, Master of Sedbergh School in the 1590s. He was no fool, but a fellow of St. John's Cambridge. Like this gentleman he writes much more freely that Shakespeare makes his characters speak. The text was an answer to a Chancery Bill, but John Mayer was not a Lawyer and so he literally wrote to describe his everyday experience as articulately as he could, and he was articulate.

    • @philroberts7238
      @philroberts7238 7 месяцев назад +94

      A lot of it was conscious and deliberate grandiloquence. Not even the 'nobs' would have gone around speaking in iambic, pentametric verse!

    • @rickpeters1626
      @rickpeters1626 7 месяцев назад +70

      You might call it 'stagey'.

    • @jimthain8777
      @jimthain8777 7 месяцев назад +45

      I think Shakespeare wrote in a register that was slightly above the everyday use of his time, but not so much that everyday people would not understand it.

    • @capitalb5889
      @capitalb5889 7 месяцев назад +38

      Shakespeare wrote in blank verse, so it was already not a normal speech pattern. And sticking to the rules of the verse would have influenced word choices and and style.

    • @ewanherbert3402
      @ewanherbert3402 7 месяцев назад +65

      Didn't he write plays set in the past?
      I know people weren't as educated back then, but maybe it would've still sounded weird if those historical kings sounded "contemporary", same as if we made a WW2 movie where Churchill says things like "cringe", "yikes" or "rizz"

  • @HerdyBert
    @HerdyBert 7 месяцев назад +101

    One of my favourite British English greetings which makes no sense when I think about it is "Now then". Me and my friends use it all the time

    • @almishti
      @almishti 6 месяцев назад +21

      I lived in UK for 9 years and my favorite greeting is "ey ya c*** ya alright" 😂

    • @WgCdrLuddite
      @WgCdrLuddite 6 месяцев назад +8

      @@almishti So have you taken the hint yet ?

    • @antonystringfellow5152
      @antonystringfellow5152 6 месяцев назад +9

      In the village in the North of England where I grew up, "How do?" was a common greeting

    • @randominternetguy8735
      @randominternetguy8735 6 месяцев назад +5

      'Eyup' is quite common in Yorkshire.

    • @electrictroy2010
      @electrictroy2010 6 месяцев назад +3

      “Yeah No.” is suddenly popular with younger Americans.
      It annoys me.
      Is it yes or no?
      .

  • @mollydooker9636
    @mollydooker9636 7 месяцев назад +32

    'How are you going' is still used commonly in Ireland, which is probably how it arrived in Australian English.

    • @wiseoldfool
      @wiseoldfool 5 месяцев назад +10

      In Australian it's eryagahn. Mark Twain: "The Australians consume nothing so much as syllables."

  • @MacNab23
    @MacNab23 7 месяцев назад +228

    *Working with a crew of hillbillies in western North Carolina years ago.* The boss comes over the radio: "Hey, Buster, how much d'you lack on that job?" Buster, visibly frustrated, answers, "I don't lack none of it". The boss goes silent for a moment, gritting his teeth at the pun. "Damn it, Buster..."

    • @SupahTrunks7
      @SupahTrunks7 7 месяцев назад +21

      Could you explain the pun? I’m curious but can’t parse it.

    • @zeedub8560
      @zeedub8560 7 месяцев назад +92

      @@SupahTrunks7 Southern pronunciation of "like."

    • @DrWhom
      @DrWhom 7 месяцев назад +51

      @@zeedub8560 Bill Bryson mentions a southern lady who asks him "How d'ya lack Miss Hippy?" and he is quite confused, not being acquainted with one Miss Hippy and certainly not experiencing any lack of her. Of course, she asked him what he thought of Mississippi.

    • @zeedub8560
      @zeedub8560 7 месяцев назад +15

      @@DrWhom I was in class one day during my freshman year of h.s., only a year after moving from PA to TX. A girl asked, "Anyone have any type?" I thought, huh? My grandfather was a printer, so I though of printer's type. After a few seconds of confusion, I figured out she was asking for tape.

    • @justinstewart4889
      @justinstewart4889 7 месяцев назад +7

      ​@@SupahTrunks7
      In Western North Carolina, they pronounce the i sound in night, kite, bright, and etc very...widely. I'm from the Piedmont, and though we're very Southern it is something we don't do. It's jarring even to us. So, I take it that the long i sound made like and lack almost sound the same, so Buster is saying he doesn't like the work he is having to do and being a smart ass.

  • @michagorka3789
    @michagorka3789 7 месяцев назад +70

    I follow you Simon for years, since your early "on a chair" videos and untill now I find you my best discovery on YT. Not only the great knowledge and passion but the voice as well. Thank you for all you make and as always, best wishes from Poland :)

    • @jmolofsson
      @jmolofsson 7 месяцев назад +5

      Seconded!

    • @chaoticgiraffe
      @chaoticgiraffe 7 месяцев назад +1

      Thirded

    • @markgeraghty4125
      @markgeraghty4125 7 месяцев назад +2

      Forthded 🤣

    • @robwillems4398
      @robwillems4398 7 месяцев назад

      Veefed

    • @michagorka3789
      @michagorka3789 7 месяцев назад

      Piąty kurwa ;) to put emphasis on Polish background :) the second Polish word is probably the only one every Brit knows ;)

  • @argonwheatbelly637
    @argonwheatbelly637 7 месяцев назад +197

    Interestingly, I'm starting to hear modern youth say, "Can I come with?" not, "Can I come with you?" Mitkommen is German, but in English this appears to be making a strange comeback.

    • @HeadsFullOfEyeballs
      @HeadsFullOfEyeballs 7 месяцев назад +49

      "Come with", at least in American English, has been around for a long time I'm pretty sure! It was a Germanism (or maybe a Yiddish-ism?) originally, but spread from the language of German immigrants to colloquial speech more generally in some regions. Compare also "what gives?" from "was gibt's"?

    • @m00zic
      @m00zic 7 месяцев назад +6

      Yeh I agree I've come with in England. Maybe in the North especially Yorkshire and the North East

    • @elizabethwall8063
      @elizabethwall8063 7 месяцев назад +20

      Interesting….Growing up in the ‘80s in Northern Virginia in the U.S., I had a friend who always said “come with” without the “me,” and I always found it annoying somehow-like, “Just finish the sentence!!” But now I see there are historical reasons for that expression. I’m not sure where she got it from since no one else in our area seemed to say it that way, but it must have been something passed down in her family.

    • @FenceThis
      @FenceThis 7 месяцев назад +10

      it’s exactly what they say in Danish: “kan jeg komme med ?” much closer than in German (also the ‘soft d’ in ‘med’ reminiscent to the ‘th’ in ‘with’)

    • @valentinmitterbauer4196
      @valentinmitterbauer4196 7 месяцев назад +26

      A common mistake for german speakers learning english: Asking for the time. They don't ask "What is the time?" or even "Is it late?", but "How late is it?", implying that they are late at any given moment and just request an estimation of their relative lateness.

  • @subutaynoyan5372
    @subutaynoyan5372 6 месяцев назад +19

    That haggling part is just, marvellous! Thank ye sir! For this gift of content!

  • @aepfeln
    @aepfeln 7 месяцев назад +11

    I like how you can vary the sound of your voice enough to make the two sides of the conversation sound different, but without either of them sounding cartoonish. I always do the audible equivalent of a double take, because it sounds like two different people with similar voices rather than one person playing two characters.

  • @johnjakson444
    @johnjakson444 7 месяцев назад +66

    I was also surprised about how easy it was to understand 95%, the rest I would pass over. As a Brit thats been in the US for 40 years, I have the same problem today, I'm still acquiring UK English again, and many street talk I overhear is nearly incromprhensible to me.

    • @DrWhom
      @DrWhom 7 месяцев назад +9

      "many street talk" ? you really have been away for a while...

    • @ianhelyar6383
      @ianhelyar6383 6 месяцев назад +7

      I feel ya! I got back to Australia after 15 years in China, and the service staff in McDonald's were utterly unintelligible. I found myself thinking, "I speak English, German and Chinese, plus a smattering of Swedish. I've taught English for many years, and I have no idea what that kid just said!"

  • @xFlRSTx
    @xFlRSTx 7 месяцев назад +132

    its worth noting that a frenchmen might be more likely to notice/register contractions that are similar to frech, like th' corrisponding to l'

    • @Mcfunface
      @Mcfunface 7 месяцев назад +24

      An astute observation

    • @HweolRidda
      @HweolRidda 7 месяцев назад +9

      ​It's interesting that modern English has the opposite trend. The vowel in "the" strengthens before a word starting with a vowel rather than disappearing. "Thə man" but "thee opposite".

    • @tommccanna7036
      @tommccanna7036 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@HweolRidda That was the case in classical British Received Pronunciation. But there's an even more modern trend of using Thə before a vowel.

    • @bacicinvatteneaca
      @bacicinvatteneaca 6 месяцев назад

      That's because modern English diphthongises every tense vowel apart frombroad a, and at the end of the day this means they all get an optional final semiconsonant, preventing hiatus that English so hates

    • @electrictroy2010
      @electrictroy2010 6 месяцев назад

      @Allan_son AS an Anerican I say “the opposite”. I don’t say “thee” unless it’s the actual word thee
      .

  • @Jd-808
    @Jd-808 7 месяцев назад +119

    You’ll still hear ‘How goes it’ and ‘how do you’ in the US. Rural and southern

    • @Ksim3000
      @Ksim3000 7 месяцев назад +8

      You can still hear these phrases in parts of the UK too. I even use them from time to time as well. 😅

    • @bootmii98
      @bootmii98 7 месяцев назад +45

      "how do ye" became "howdy"

    • @rickpeters1626
      @rickpeters1626 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@bootmii98 Very interesting, thank you! Regarding the use of 'ye' as a plural, I wonder if it was once more often used as an address to a group than to an individual. 'Howdy folks' will be familiar to anyone who's ever seen a Western.

    • @EdMcF1
      @EdMcF1 7 месяцев назад +4

      'How goes it' was a standard greeting from a Rhodesian/Zimbabwean (White) friend of mine born in the 1960s. It sounded odd in 1980s England.

    • @carolinejames7257
      @carolinejames7257 7 месяцев назад +4

      As an Australian born in the 1960s, I've both heard and used "How goes it?", "How's it going?", and "How's it hanging?" The first of those is more old fashioned, the middle one still current, and the last is both more casual and more ... crude or uncouth.

  • @peterjhillier7659
    @peterjhillier7659 7 месяцев назад +11

    I remember in 1967 my dear Wife and I visited her Sister who lived with her Yorkshire born Husband near Castleford in the West Riding, we came from Lewes East Sussex, and I remember we were surprised that on asking a wee Lad the way he answered us by using thou and thee in his Yorkshire Dialect.

    • @MHLivestreams
      @MHLivestreams 7 месяцев назад +4

      Aye, 'tis the way.

    • @dee4174
      @dee4174 Месяц назад

      It's still the case in Sheffield in informal speech.

  • @janecarmichael8060
    @janecarmichael8060 7 месяцев назад +42

    “How do?” was used as a greeting in Manchester where I lived in the 1960s and 70s.

    • @paulaunger3061
      @paulaunger3061 6 месяцев назад +8

      Still is ;)

    • @khuntasaurus88
      @khuntasaurus88 6 месяцев назад +7

      I think its a precursor to the southern "Howdy"

    • @yateslawrence
      @yateslawrence 6 месяцев назад +3

      I still use "howdo" regularly (although it was sometimes frowned upon in formal situations) Lancashire.

    • @lindsayheyes925
      @lindsayheyes925 5 месяцев назад +3

      Shropshire, Herefordshire and Gloucestershire too.

    • @HappyBeezerStudios
      @HappyBeezerStudios 4 месяца назад +1

      you can absolutely translate that directly word by word into modern german and get a pretty acceptable casual greeting.

  • @philroberts7238
    @philroberts7238 7 месяцев назад +28

    As far as the informal use of "thou" as distinct from the more polite "you" is concerned, Shakespeare (and presumably his audiences) was keenly aware of the social nuances involved in the choice. Sometimes a speaker will even shift from one to the other to emphasise a shift in attitude. If I were to suddenly address you as "thou" rather than "you", it would mean I was either trying to be rude or, alternatively, trying to get more familiar in other ways!

    • @LMB2301
      @LMB2301 7 месяцев назад +9

      There’s an old English folksong (As I roved out one May morning) where a man meets a maid and begs her to stop a while with him. He begins by addressing her with ‘you’ but after they have lain together he addresses her with ‘thou’. One can only imagine why…

    • @stevekaczynski3793
      @stevekaczynski3793 7 месяцев назад +7

      In Richard III, the two murderers switch between "you" and "thou" when talking to Clarence before killing him.

    • @normandduern2413
      @normandduern2413 6 месяцев назад +2

      Sounds to me (French Canadian) like an exact parallel of the French use of 'Tu' - singular familiar - and vous - plural, or singular formal/respectful.

    • @philroberts7238
      @philroberts7238 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@normandduern2413 Exactly so.

  • @artugert
    @artugert 7 месяцев назад +7

    I can’t get enough of this kind of stuff. I was actually a little sad when the video was over.

  • @bensmith7536
    @bensmith7536 6 месяцев назад +17

    its remarkable that we could easily communicate in english with these people using current english, nearly 450 years later.

  • @stacyakin
    @stacyakin 7 месяцев назад +26

    I find this fascinating. As a school psychologist who is highly interested in dyslexia, this is a treasure trove of information about our use of language and the written symbols that allow us to reproduce the sounds of said language. The evolution of the language and the written words of it is itself fascinating.

    • @bobojenkins5805
      @bobojenkins5805 6 месяцев назад +1

      Are you going to cure dyslexia? If so how far along are ye?

    • @Dillybar777
      @Dillybar777 6 месяцев назад

      What the hell does your interest in dyslexia have to do with this? Nobody asked.

  • @naufalzaid7500
    @naufalzaid7500 7 месяцев назад +53

    9:30 My god, I’ve just realized that the “o” in “o’clock” stands for “of”, so when we say something like “it’s 5 o’clock”, we’re actually saying “it’s 5 of (the) clock” 😮

    • @KushLemon
      @KushLemon 6 месяцев назад +5

      You are slow, aren't you?

    • @Daisy-tl2lh
      @Daisy-tl2lh 6 месяцев назад +2

      Yes!

    • @dragondov
      @dragondov 6 месяцев назад +8

      I always assumed it was for on-the-clock.

    • @Cricket2731
      @Cricket2731 6 месяцев назад +2

      I learned this in primary school, back in the 1960s!

    • @bill-2018
      @bill-2018 6 месяцев назад +2

      I knew this as a kid. I'm aged 68 now.

  • @MikeS29
    @MikeS29 7 месяцев назад +4

    I've never watched a video of yours that I didn't love, and that didn't transport me to another time. Thank you for all you do, Simon.

  • @MB-st7be
    @MB-st7be 7 месяцев назад +35

    It is amazing how many of these patterns still survive in northern England. Even 'thee' is heard occasionally

    • @paulclarkson9391
      @paulclarkson9391 6 месяцев назад +4

      They say it all the time in Barnsley.

    • @benanderson89
      @benanderson89 6 месяцев назад +2

      "How do" is probably the second most common greeting in the north east after y'allreet.

    • @jupitersnoot4915
      @jupitersnoot4915 6 месяцев назад

      I'm born and raised northern english and i've never heard anything like this

    • @juliangilbert5465
      @juliangilbert5465 6 месяцев назад +5

      I'm from Lancashire, 60 years old now and people regularly used thee when I was a kid, pronounced 'the' or 'tha'. There was a joke we'd say, but only works in a Lancashire accent from that time.
      Someone wants to throw some rubbish away, and asks:
      "Where's the bin?"
      In an old Lancashire accent we'd answer ...
      "Nowhere. Where's you been?"

    • @michaelpowell775
      @michaelpowell775 5 месяцев назад +3

      I used to hear it a lot in Sheffield being a child in the 90’s, such as “how’s tha doing”, “is tha coming to t’pub?”

  • @johnbyrne1022
    @johnbyrne1022 7 месяцев назад +68

    You should visit the west of Ireland where some of these things are still common. One weird thing is that we use "ye" (pronounced "yee") strictly as a plural for "you". Most of the time, people who hear this don't realize it's a plural and assume it's just a weird way of pronouncing "you". One time on a work trip to the US someone asked why we sometimes say "you" and sometimes "yee". I realized then it's not obvious because a lot of English speakers don't make any singular/plural distinction for "you" at all.

    • @celiabarrett2107
      @celiabarrett2107 7 месяцев назад +5

      My grandma spoke this way, she'd say ye three be quiet. But you if just one of us. She was from South West Ireland.

    • @Xezlec
      @Xezlec 7 месяцев назад +21

      Here in Texas, "y'all" is definitely the normal standard plural form of "you".

    • @sarahrosen4985
      @sarahrosen4985 7 месяцев назад +6

      Don't forget you & you'nz / yinz.

    • @jimthain8777
      @jimthain8777 7 месяцев назад +9

      Actually many of us do have a plural for the you pronoun, but it isn't anything like "yee", in my area it "you guys" (regardless of gender), in some parts of North America is Y'all, (which is you+all).

    • @casparwright1891
      @casparwright1891 7 месяцев назад +10

      Yous is common in Australia. And I mean common 😊

  • @timthelamb
    @timthelamb 7 месяцев назад +6

    Hello Simon. I have heard many of these sentences uttered by both rural dwellers and traveling people in Cumbria, so the language is still extant. The countryside is so conservative in nature and so steeped in heritage that some phrases are as enduring as the seasonal traditions, especially in this sometimes forgotten nook of furthest north-west England. I enjoy listening to your presentations and look forward to more of them.

  • @sagetmaster4
    @sagetmaster4 6 месяцев назад +12

    Wow. What an unbelievably valuable document for linguists

    • @wiseoldfool
      @wiseoldfool 5 месяцев назад

      The world is full of cunning linguists, apparently.

  • @Muritaipet
    @Muritaipet 7 месяцев назад +9

    My man, that was absolutely brilliant. And really educational on so many levels!
    I learned more about 16th century speech. I learned one of the ways we know how people spoke. I got to hear a likely genuine conversation, from 400 years ago. And I leaned the etymology for goodbye. Do more of these!

  • @polyMATHY_Luke
    @polyMATHY_Luke 7 месяцев назад +21

    What a superb video and topic. Iċ þancie þē, mīn freond!

  • @yes_head
    @yes_head 7 месяцев назад +17

    Fascinating. It occurred to me the lack of contractions may be to ensure non-native speakers aren't misunderstood, since accents can mess with pronunciation. But all the discussion about evolution of informal speech has made me want to listen to Fairport Convention's "Come All Ye". 😀

  • @andreab5356
    @andreab5356 7 месяцев назад +3

    I love these types of videos that describe how conversations actually went

  • @miketaylor5088
    @miketaylor5088 3 месяца назад +4

    Fascinating. Sometime in the late 70s or 80s, I was in Victoria Station using a public pay telephone (no cell). I finished my call, and having noticed that an older man using the next phone was having trouble making his call. Public phones at that that time were "A and B button" phones, not user-friendly. So I offered to help. He responded quickly and gratefully, but I was shocked. I remember thinking at the time that he might have stepped out of Chaucer, using archaisms besides which the speech in this video is quite modern. Anyway, he told me that this was the first time in his life that he had left his village, somewhere in the southwest. I helped him place his call and when he got an answer I went on my way. But to this day I remember this encounter with the frozen past and regret missing the opportunity to perhaps buy him a cup of tea for a chat.

  • @Tonks143
    @Tonks143 7 месяцев назад +42

    I think you'd find the 1819 Burslem Dialogue quite interesting, its an account of two men from Stoke-on-Trent in the early 19th century, it's avaliable from Google books for free.

    • @stephenryan7855
      @stephenryan7855 7 месяцев назад

      Thank you. Is it much different from today?

    • @Tonks143
      @Tonks143 7 месяцев назад +3

      @@stephenryan7855 There are some differences, but it's hard to tell because the author wrote it phonetically, but not using a modern phonetic transcription. But when I've read it it doesn't sound too different from some of the oldest people I've met in the North of Stoke-on-Trent near to where the dialogue is supposed to have taken place.

  • @antoninbesse795
    @antoninbesse795 7 месяцев назад +13

    Really like the ‘time traveller’ insights in your videos.

  • @iberius9937
    @iberius9937 7 месяцев назад +16

    A linguistic treasure! Brought to life by your awesome voice and reconstructed phonology!

  • @spacey4828
    @spacey4828 4 месяца назад +1

    things like this make me so much more excited to study history in uni, yes all the language stuff is interesting, but the fact that we have records of what casual conversations might have been like? it's amazing! I love people just being people and going about their lives during different time periods

  • @CC3193
    @CC3193 5 месяцев назад +3

    I’m Australian & can easily spot differences between your modern phrasing & pronunciation to ours here. But we’re a young country with English brought over only 200-odd years ago.
    What’s _really_ interesting to me - as I’ve been married to an Irishman & travelled a lot of Ireland in the past ten years (and always enjoyed their colourful, unique, almost theatrical dialogue) - is that in this video, I can hear a LOT of the current phrasing, vernacular, and style of Irish English in your 16th Century conversational English. And now, I have the uncanny sense that I’ve been hearing English preserved in a time capsule through my Irish family & friends! Particularly when outside of Dublin. Amazing.

    • @HappyBeezerStudios
      @HappyBeezerStudios 4 месяца назад +3

      and now imagine how much more uncanny it is when you know german. Half the sentences could be direct word-for-word translations and the rest use words that aren't typical in modern english, but have clear analogys in german.

  • @MichaelPattiruhu
    @MichaelPattiruhu 7 месяцев назад +23

    Sentences like “Where live you?” sound to me like a Dutch kid learning English.

    • @DrWhom
      @DrWhom 7 месяцев назад +6

      The Dutch never developed the need for do-support.

    • @HappyBeezerStudios
      @HappyBeezerStudios 4 месяца назад +5

      @@DrWhom guess they can ..... do without

    •  Месяц назад

      German too!

  • @Ramngrim
    @Ramngrim 7 месяцев назад +52

    Interesting how this older syntax is closer to Scandinavian languages than current English is.

    • @sirkalasnefzenlot
      @sirkalasnefzenlot 7 месяцев назад +19

      Im learning Dutch (in Belgium). The first time I went to see Shakespeare since starting, I had a similar surprise. My understanding was improved allot by learning another germanic language.

    • @keltzy
      @keltzy 7 месяцев назад +10

      @@sirkalasnefzenlot That was how I maintained a grasp on Dutch grammar too when I was studying it. I was just sat there thinking "Wow, this feels a lot like archaic English"

    • @sarco64
      @sarco64 7 месяцев назад +5

      Also closer to modern German. I'm curious about when the "do" forms became required rather than optional for questions and negations in English, as in "Where do you live?" rather than "Where live you?" and "I don't live in London" rather than "I live not in London."

    • @geisaune793
      @geisaune793 7 месяцев назад +7

      This older syntax is closer to other germanic languages in general, not just scandinavian languages. The ‘do’ forms likely arose as a result of the Norman invasion. If I remember correctly, in most romance languages descended from Vulgar Latin, the primary way in which you ask a question is simply with rising intonation, not necessarily with subject/verb inversion like in germanic languages. As the Norman-French speaking upper classes gradually intermixed with the Anglo-Saxon lower classes over the centuries, the ‘do’ form probably arose as a sort of grammatical compromise that tried to reconcile the germanic requirement that a question begin with a verb with the romance tendency to maintain SVO word order.

    • @jeff__w
      @jeff__w 7 месяцев назад +7

      @@geisaune793 “The ‘do’ forms likely arose as a result of the Norman invasion.”
      One blog post, summarizing John McWhorter’s view in his book _his book Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue,_ says
      “What specific elements of the English grammar can be said to be of Celtic origin? One well-studied example of a trait now thought to derive from Celtic is the so-called do-support. In English, a ‘dummy’ auxiliary _do_ must be used to form negative and interrogative sentences; hence, we say _John does not swim_ (instead of _*John swims not_ or _*John not swims)_ and _Does John swim?_ (instead of _*Swims John?)._ Other Germanic languages (German, Dutch, Norwegian, Afrikaans, etc.) do not have this construction (note that the English use of do-support is different from the so-called emphatic _do,_ as in _John does swim!,_ which is found in other Germanic languages). Nor do Romance or Slavic languages have anything resembling do-support. In fact, it’s a rather rare quirk, cross-linguistically.
      “We now think that English picked it up from its Celtic neighbors. Unlike Germanic languages, Celtic languages like Cornish have had do-support since before English started using it. It is used in Celtic exactly as in English: to express tense and agreement in negative and interrogative sentences.”
      It then gives several objections to this Celtic hypothesis.

  • @hugodesrosiers-plaisance3156
    @hugodesrosiers-plaisance3156 7 месяцев назад +8

    Native Quebec French speaker here.
    I'll start off by saying that Quebec French has many archaic or unique features compared to Metropolitan French, and that's a whole Pandora's Box of its own, and Quebec French is closely related to older forms of French which had a lot of influence on Old English.
    Now to the point I mean to make, old English seems to have many grammatical structures that are similar to French. Inverting the verb and subject in a question for example, without the need for an auxiliary "do" for it to make sense. It "feels" natural to a French speaker.
    Also, I have some degree of knowledge of the Icelandic language, and an equivalent of "thou" is still used by the Icelanders. As a matter of fact, they still use it with the "original" letters "thorn" - Þú - when used in a more formally correct way, and with "eth" - ðu - when slipped into casual speech. The transition from þú to -ðu is similar to contractions using the apostrophe in the English language (you are not = you aren't, etc).
    A simple Icelandic greeting: What say you? (that choice of words for a greeting already feels archaic by modern English perspective)
    Formal - Hvað segir þú?
    Casual - Hvað segirðu?
    Considering Old English in the context of it historical linguistic ecosystem makes it all the more interesting, I find.

    • @HappyBeezerStudios
      @HappyBeezerStudios 4 месяца назад +1

      Considering how much of a thing linguistic purism is in France, it's realky surprising that quebec french is so much more resistant.
      And for the icelandic example I can add two more from the germanc area: "wat zeg je?" and "was sagst du?" which make it pretty clear where english got it's roots.

    • @hugodesrosiers-plaisance3156
      @hugodesrosiers-plaisance3156 4 месяца назад

      @@HappyBeezerStudios In Québec we have the "Office Québécois de la Langue Française" which is an official independent office that governs what is and isn't appropriate french language in Québec.
      It really helps keep it all structured and cohesive.
      Iceland has a similar "office" that decides things regarding the Icelandic language, like when some new tech becomes important enough to warrant a native Icelandic word.
      Most Germanic languages have some form of the word "computer"
      Not Icelandic. They dug out an old word that wasn't used anymore and there you go, a computer is "tölvu".

  • @xiaohung6014
    @xiaohung6014 25 дней назад

    That’s a truly fascinating exposition on London’s spoken English at the time of Shakespeare. I never knew such a valuable document, with its guide to pronunciation existed. Thank you for sharing.

  • @boiledelephant
    @boiledelephant 7 месяцев назад

    This is fascinating and answers the exact question that's rattled around my brain for years now. Thank you for making it.

  • @weewooweewoo906
    @weewooweewoo906 7 месяцев назад +26

    i remember reading that Quakers in the mid to late 1600s got into a lot of trouble by speaking informally to nobility, as per our stance on radical equality, and that included them using "thou" instead of "you"

  • @elizabethwall8063
    @elizabethwall8063 7 месяцев назад +5

    Fascinating! The old speech sounds so quaint and even cute to my 21st-century American ears. I wish people still talked like this!

    • @paulclarkson9391
      @paulclarkson9391 6 месяцев назад +3

      They do. Thee is still common in South Yorkshire.

    • @cosimo7770
      @cosimo7770 Месяц назад

      As in late-19th century New England.

  • @ahilltodieons
    @ahilltodieons 5 месяцев назад +5

    Focusing the footage on the most ancient bug in existence is a nice touch.

  • @Nobile-Cavaliere
    @Nobile-Cavaliere 7 месяцев назад +3

    I found this phrase interesting: "Have you any good, broad cloth?" As "broadcloth" is a term used nowadays for any number of fulled plain-woven wool fabrics.

  • @eucliduschaumeau8813
    @eucliduschaumeau8813 6 месяцев назад +4

    “Hello” existed for a very long time, as a combination of “hail” and “all”, as “hall-oo” or “calling out hallows” to friends in the woods. I’ve seen many references in 17th century writing about people who recorded their stories of the day.

  • @anaccount8474
    @anaccount8474 7 месяцев назад +4

    It's weird to think that in one thousand years people will be able to know exactly how we talked now. They'll be able to watch videos of us, see exactly what we looked like and how we lived. It would be amazing if had videos of people form hundreds of years ago. I think in the future this time will regarded as highly significant in the same we regard the beginning of recorded history as significant. This is the time that history started to be recorded both visually and audibly.

    • @alexandrashaw314
      @alexandrashaw314 4 месяца назад +1

      Many say that our digital age and culture will vanish because of its reliance on specific mediums/software and hardware to access. If you found a heap of CDs in 100, let alone 1000 years, how could you read them? The internet and digital files will go even more completely up like smoke.

    • @pierzing.glint1sh76
      @pierzing.glint1sh76 2 месяца назад

      @@alexandrashaw314 strongly doubt it.
      YOu can find the first video and audio ever recorded, right here on RUclips and somehow I don't think when they recorded it in 1880 they intended for it to be uploaded to a global network of computers that didn't even exist at the time.
      I wouldn't worry about it. Those willing to preserve our recordings will always find a way.
      The 20th century will indeed be a watershed moment for recorded history, thousands of years from now, in the same way that clay tablets are today.

  • @draelyc
    @draelyc 7 месяцев назад +13

    The King James Bible & the Church preserved the use of “thou” in addressing God precisely because it was the informal “you”; the idea was that one’s relationship with God should be the most intimate relationship of all. It’s one of those funny bits of linguistic history - it’s because “thou” was eventually preserved *primarily* in Scripture and worship, it over time came to be understood as the more formal pronoun. The exact opposite of what it originally was. I love that.

    • @bacicinvatteneaca
      @bacicinvatteneaca 6 месяцев назад

      I though it was to make the Bible sound older, because it was already antiquated to use though at the time

    • @draelyc
      @draelyc 6 месяцев назад

      @@bacicinvatteneaca Hmm, I've never heard that explanation. I'd be skeptical, though ~ I don't think that Shakespeare was trying to make Hamlet sound older, you know? And his writing was contemporary with the KJV.

    • @P_Ezi
      @P_Ezi 5 месяцев назад

      ​@@bacicinvatteneaca
      My understanding is that they wished to preserve the singular and plural senses found in the original Hebrew of the Old Testament and Greek of the New Testament.
      The English forms were apparently a bit dated, but they were a convenient way to preserve the full meaning.
      Thou, thee, thy, and thine were used for singular form, and ye, you, your, and yours for plural.

    • @draelyc
      @draelyc 5 месяцев назад

      @@P_Ezi I don’t know the Hebrew, but there’s certainly some truth to that regarding the Greek, absolutely.👍🏼

    • @RegularCupOfJoe
      @RegularCupOfJoe 3 месяца назад +2

      William Tyndale was the man who translated the Hebrew and Greek transcripts into what is now known as the King James Bible. Tyndale's use of "thou" was not from a desire to make the Bible sound older but rather for two reasons. First, the original Greek manuscripts of the New Testament maintain an emphasis of the personal relationship of the believer and God through uses of Greek equivalent pronouns, etc. Tyndale observed that the Latin translations of his time removed that "personal-ness", so he brought it back. Second, Tyndale's target audience for his translation of the Bible was the average, everyday person, not the academic or cleric or member of the King's court. (By far, the majority of Britons did not have a Bible of their own at the time.) The use of "thou" was one of many word choices he made in order to broaden the accessibility of the Bible as much as possible.

  • @wakayama1991
    @wakayama1991 7 месяцев назад +11

    I might have misconstrued, but it may be worthwhile considering the the "y' " is not just a short form of ye, but the french pronunciation of 'y' - 'ee' (...mal y pense). I often had shouted at me as a boy "I'll give ee a thick ear if...".

    • @bacicinvatteneaca
      @bacicinvatteneaca 6 месяцев назад +2

      Not just that - French's "y" as a particle, is related to Italian "ci" and galloitalic "ghe", meaning it was probably originally a consonant+vowel sequence; it could be that, at Bellot''s time, "y" was still pronounced [ji] or [i:] rather than [i] a in modern French

  • @hanselpollack4075
    @hanselpollack4075 4 месяца назад

    Thank you for sharing your scholarship. English is so widely spoken around the world. Your voice is very pleasant, modulated, and easy to hear…

  • @Veritas-dq2hs
    @Veritas-dq2hs 6 месяцев назад +1

    This is insanely wonderful. Thank you so much for all of this!!

  • @Belki404
    @Belki404 7 месяцев назад +5

    Just found this channel, this is the coolest

  • @Carbine92
    @Carbine92 7 месяцев назад +9

    A lot of this phrasing is still normal to speakers of Dublin English. You definitely need to cover it.

  • @robert48719
    @robert48719 7 месяцев назад +7

    "how are you going " for "how are you doing" is the way we say it in German, but also in norwegian. Good example for how out languages were more similar the further you go back

    • @einarbolstad8150
      @einarbolstad8150 7 месяцев назад +1

      In Norwegian it would most likely be "how is it going?" or, if directly translated, "how goes it?" (hvordan går det?) or "how is it going with you?", which directly translated is, "how goes it with you?" (hvordan går det med deg?).

    • @keighlancoe5933
      @keighlancoe5933 7 месяцев назад +2

      Where I'm from in England you can say 'how's it going' which means the same as how are you doing.

    • @carolinejames7257
      @carolinejames7257 7 месяцев назад +1

      In Australia, "How's it going?" is equivalent to "How are you?" - but more frequently used.

    • @oj9370
      @oj9370 7 месяцев назад

      I say, "How's it going?" but you even here "how's it" shortened, as everyone understands the context. NW England here.

    • @riateor2243
      @riateor2243 5 месяцев назад

      same in greek.

  • @YuTyuberful
    @YuTyuberful 6 месяцев назад +3

    'how goes it?' is still used in the UK ironically (as many archaisms, such as 'little did he know...' etc.). Once in a pub the barman greeted a customer saying, 'hello James! How goes it?' and the guy, a bit taken aback replied, 'I'm good, how... goes you?' That made me laugh😅

  • @Ultramesh
    @Ultramesh 7 месяцев назад +1

    One of the most fascinating and interesting videos I've seen in recent times.

  • @jdoniach
    @jdoniach 7 месяцев назад +8

    Very interesting. Would you please do a reading of William Caxton's Preface to Eneydos (1490), in the pronunciation of the time, where he discusses the difficulties of translating into English? Thank you very much!

  • @neileyre6019
    @neileyre6019 7 месяцев назад +10

    Like a bullet to the head I’ve just realised that growing up in Rotherham I used to hear “How do” (as a greeting) all the time between grown ups. Fantastic vid as always mate.

  • @jim4671
    @jim4671 7 месяцев назад +7

    I really enjoy the little scenes of what I assume is the garden.

  • @AstheCrowTries
    @AstheCrowTries 6 месяцев назад +1

    Okay but this is ridiculously helpful for people trying to learn an early modern English accent and don't want grandiose Shakespearean or lofty language as an example. It's nice to have examples from this period that's just two ordinary folks chatting.

  • @nevercomestheday
    @nevercomestheday 6 месяцев назад +1

    This is so, so cool. As great as it is to be able to study older forms of English from more popular and "standard" texts like Shakespeare and Chaucer, I love being able to get a feel for how people actually spoke, rather than just what was grammatically correct at the time. That old question you brought up, "how far back in time could I travel and still understand the language?" is something I think about a LOT. People also often tend to forget that regional dialects have a huge impact as well- even if I travelled tomorrow to Dublin, I'd have a hard time understanding the accent, let alone parsing the regional slang and grammar! The same language changes so much over both time and space.

    • @yoyo-gv8zs
      @yoyo-gv8zs 6 месяцев назад

      These dolls are scary

    • @HappyBeezerStudios
      @HappyBeezerStudios 4 месяца назад

      To be fair, Shakespeare was pretty creative himself. Even when it came to writing his own name.

  • @robert48719
    @robert48719 7 месяцев назад +16

    Hey Simon. There were love letters from king Henry the 8th to Anne boyelin. I thought: how about using that source and reading them as they were been read at the time? You would have a real cotemporary example from the early 1500s

  • @michaelaaylott1686
    @michaelaaylott1686 7 месяцев назад +7

    Thank you for that moment of time travel

  • @handsfree1000
    @handsfree1000 7 месяцев назад +5

    In those days local accent was very strong. You could travel to another county and not understand a word said

  • @ryanr3071
    @ryanr3071 2 месяца назад

    This is amazing. After getting my 23 and me results back it’s awesome to see how my ancestors spoke for the most part.

  • @БогданКостюченко-ц4о
    @БогданКостюченко-ц4о 2 месяца назад +1

    Thanks, Simon! We should speak English the way it was pronounced back then. Pronunciation was clearer than nowadays, no [ɹ], which is so rare among world languages, but (unfortunately; in my humble opinion) has spread in all English speaking countries, except perhaps Scotland, but a clear [ɾ] instead. Since English is the lingua franca these days, I think it would benefit from having the pronunciation it had during Shakespeare's time because it seems that it was easier for English learners back in the day.

    • @SajtosNokedli
      @SajtosNokedli 2 месяца назад +1

      At least people are less likely to be stigmatized for using a non-standard dialect or for having a strong accent. It is an issue in many languages, and another standardization is just another tool in these people's hand to harass their fellow-beings.

    • @SajtosNokedli
      @SajtosNokedli 2 месяца назад +1

      Sorry, you have just said the complete opposite thing, a.k.a to return to phonetic pronounciation. Hard to tell how could it possibly happen, but sigmatization is still an issue with this concept.

    • @БогданКостюченко-ц4о
      @БогданКостюченко-ц4о 2 месяца назад +1

      @@SajtosNokedli I was just joking. Nobody would change their pronunciation because I want so. :-D

  • @khuntasaurus88
    @khuntasaurus88 6 месяцев назад +5

    That haggling part was fascinating!

  • @serafiiiine
    @serafiiiine 7 месяцев назад +8

    Fascinating, thank you

  • @gammamaster1894
    @gammamaster1894 7 месяцев назад +6

    Would make some good voice lines for characters in a game based in Tudor England! Very interesting stuff, thanks.

  • @DrBible-ThD-HarvardLaw
    @DrBible-ThD-HarvardLaw 4 месяца назад +1

    Beautiful language. I love the King James Bible because of its elegance and metered rhythm. The reason legal contracts and even your insurance policy is written in Elizabethan English is because it is an exact language.

  • @gyrogearloose1345
    @gyrogearloose1345 6 месяцев назад

    Not only a fascinating and powerful presentation here, but a wonderful community of thoughtful enthusiastic commenters. What can all think and write proper, like . . . eh!
    Tremendous! I love to hear this language. Thanks to Simon Roper and everyone!

  • @JordanBeagle
    @JordanBeagle 6 месяцев назад +3

    8:06 So glad he included a little isopod in this video! Although I got distracted watching him scuttle, haha

  • @royfr8136
    @royfr8136 7 месяцев назад +2

    Hi Simon - just discovered your channel. So, the word 'hello' has only been in common usage since the1800????? Wow, crazy

  • @mattc9998
    @mattc9998 7 месяцев назад +6

    Fascinating similarities with Dutch!
    de rekening - the bill
    Hoe is het met jou/je? - How are you?
    Disclaimer: I'm not a Dutch native speaker, I'm just familiar with it from frequent travelling to Flanders and NL, but I recognise some terms and a lot of the sentence structure.
    On a related note, Simon, could you look into the history of Dutch influence on English through East Anglia? I have read that, in 1578, before which Elizabeth I allowed a large number of Dutch-speaking refugees to settle in the area, around a third of the population of Norwich were Dutch speakers. I've also heard that, during the Elizabethan and Jacobean periods, Dutch culture and architecture seen as highly admirable. I wonder if this too entailed influence on English, particularly through commerce.

    • @DrWhom
      @DrWhom 7 месяцев назад +1

      Not so much Dutch influence as Dutch grammar having retained original features.

    • @mattc9998
      @mattc9998 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@DrWhom Either way, the fact that Dutch and English at one point were even more alike than they are now is fascinating.

    • @HappyBeezerStudios
      @HappyBeezerStudios 4 месяца назад

      Now I get where german "Rechnung" and even "Abrechnung" get their origin.

  • @peterfazziola9081
    @peterfazziola9081 6 месяцев назад +1

    Wonderful! I applaud your erudition and the clarity of your explanations.

  • @FionaEm
    @FionaEm 6 месяцев назад +2

    This was fascinating 😊 Yes, in Australia we say "How're you going?", not "How're you doing?" as Americans do. We sometimes also say "give us" instead of "give me", just like your 1586 example. "Give us a look/squiz/gander" etc, i.e. "Give me a look", or "Give us a go/turn" instead of "Give me a turn/it's my turn". IDK why we say that, as English wasn't spoken here until colonisation, 200 years after Bellot wrote. Guess Cockney Brits still said it and brought it with them.