It Is Time for the Downplay to Stop
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- streamed June 10 & 12, 2024
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Tokido said himself that he was an Akuma loyalist... "I just love the character." So, unsurprisingly he'll play Ken.
😔
Tokido played Vega in sf2... that should show where his loyalties lie
@@KidArkxTo be fair, Akuma is banned in _SF2_ *and* Vega (Claw) is pretty goddamn dumb in that game, to the point that Vega is *still* paying for it. You're not wrong though.
@@KidArkx Yeah, I'm not saying he's not an amazing player. I just never bought the whole line about his love of Akuma in 5. Always seemed so inauthentic. Now Akuma drops... not absurdly dominant... *crickets*
True akuma fans would not play him if he’s not at least top 3 in the game
SF6 violating mathmatical laws by having like 10 top 5 characters
Tekken is the same, top 5 is a top 15 😂
as a future Terry player, I have to say: i can't believe how underpowered they made him in sf6
Can't Capcom made him underpowered months before release, sf6 will never recover
What if he's trash like the game he came from?
@@josephwiard6695 wake up downplaying a whole series, that's impressive
@@josephwiard6695 subscriptions: infiltration
Lmfao
@@birdonline2751 infiltration the goat 🐐
Sajam being the one instigating twitter discourse to make a video on it is a Blanka main move if ever I’ve seen one.
At the moment complain about being worst Shoto is like complaining about being poorest billionare.
fr, ryu was the worst shoto season 1 and its not like he was bottom 3 terrible he just wasn't THAT good
Tbf Ken literally is the poorest billionaire now 😂
@@charlieharrington9555lore accurate balance patch, you love to see it
Imagine only having $999,999,999, couldn't be me 😂 /s
He's not even the worst Shoto, he's tied for top billionaire.
One thing life has taught me, people say a lot of things.
I never say anything.
@@duxnihilo "Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege 2019 11 29 19 33 11 03" disagrees
@@CrucibleOfHate I never said anything.
@@duxnihilo Oof, I got outplayed
As a mute, I can only think…LUCKY!!!
The title is so ominous
Sajam has been building the sajam profile pic army for his new crusade.
Broski was so right when he said Shoto players are the least loyal gamers around. They will ride with the best shoto regardless of which one it is and will act like the others are unplayable. Inspirational downplay, quite frankly
I mean they are just different skins really
Always been the case. Daigo dropped Ryu for E.Ryu in SF4 and when none of the shotos were good in SFV he was on Guile. And let's not forget Ken in both Third Strike and SF6.
Not for me, I quit the game cuz Akuma wasn't in it and now I'm back, I could care less who is the strongest, akuma could be bottom 5 and I would still main him and bison
Got a DP ? Got a Fireball ? Aight i am sold
@@jhuyt-I mean they aren’t but ok
Shout-outs for Cat Cammy for being the pillar of all the RUclips content for this game.
She's just too adorable.
Nothing new, dp for Shoto players might as well mean DownPlay at this point
'Wake up downplay' has a nice ring to it, since it's what people do when they get up in the morning and head to twitter
@@ShadowChaolanwakeup ex downplay*
@@bigjc5546 "Too broken. Pls nerf."
The DP works tho, Ken dodged nerfs
@@Aggrofool You're right. My tone was a silly one. I do agree that the wakeup ex downplay actually needs nerfing. Haha. More players need to acknowledge the legitimate weaknesses of a character, *and* their strengths.
I feel like I could see an argument that Ken *could* be the worst Shoto in the game, but even if that's true that's like saying you have the cheapest Lamborghini. All the shotos are so incredibly well-rounded and work with this game's system mechanics so proficiently that if you're downplaying by saying you're the worst Shoto then you're not really playing down that much at all.
I feel like you can come up with little arguments for Ken, Luke and although super hyped up after the nerfs, Ryu, being the "worst shotos", but they all feel pretty close to eachother now
Akuma's the only one where I feel like you can definitively call him #1 but it'll probably be a bit before he gets those tourney results, though I feel like even if in need of a nerf the gap between him any everyone else isn't as big as the gap that Ken/Luke had with pre buff Ryu in S1, shoto mains are eating good in S2 (saying as a shoto main)
When someone says worst shoto I don't think they are saying that particular shoto is low tier. "Comparatively" to all other shotos who are the weakest in that archetype.
I think that's just a clickbait title. All the shotos are very different in their playstyle. Ryu is damage and pressure
Ken is corner carry and rush down
Akuma surprisingly is the better zoner
Luke is the best turtle into corner monster.
@@checkmate8849it's true that Akuma probably has the best zoning out of all the shotos, but i think reducing him to just a zoner is stupid when he also has the best rushdown, the best mixup, (arguably) the best neutral and the best damage across all of them.
@@heymemesaucevichaelhere9595luke is in fact not the worst shoto
Nah, you’re on drugs if you think Ken is worse than Ryu.
Me personally, think Ken is atleast top 22 in the overall roster
That’s a good point lol
Easy top 5
Millia is the best character in sf6
Nerf Millia?
Watch out or you will summon the Millia guy here to say she's trash.
@@SerpenSquamata unfortunately his account is gone. Fly high millia guy❤
@@SerpenSquamata nah it seems he's gone, all that remains is a copy paste impostor with a AI pic
Nah, still Bottom 3. She can’t deal with Green Wild Assault.
And Sanford Kelly was proven right once again.
PICK A TOP TIER. AND IF PEOPLE SAY THEY'RE GETTING CARRIED? THEY'RE RIGHT!
THEY'RE GETTING CARRIED TO THE TOP!
in the words of the greats: if you dont pick a top tier and you want to win you're fn stupid🗣️🗣️
more like pick a top tier and downplay them till the patch comes
Meanwhile, Ryu players have no concern about tier lists. They've been jump kick sweeping for 30+ years. No balance patch has taken that timeless combo out yet.
idc who says what on twitter, any character that beats me is top tier so akuma should be like triple S
Finally, a sensible comment.
3:05 "MAI guess". Sajam already been playing some Mai, and crazy he'd leak it like that.
I hope zangief gets to be an actual character for more than a month
they actually put gief in the game and people already want him out again 😭
I swear people who say zangief can't be good are just bad at fighting him and should learn the mu, hes in such a good place
Ken being THE corner carry god means he was and always will be top 5.
When Sajam kept listing Ken's strength I was waiting for him to mention corner carry, when he kept going without ever even mentioning it, that's when I knew
Oops you just got hit once in neutral time to play the Ken Corner Hat Game
I can't imagine playing a top 5 character, that character getting barely any significant changes in a patch, some of the other best characters getting nerfs, and then saying your main isn't top 5.
It's very confusing to me
Downplaying that's how you don't get people calling you carried 😂
i saw that tweet at the start and Immediately thought "alright, when's the video coming out"
I say this as a lover of Hwoarang that a lot of hwoarangs can be CRAZY downplayers just like Ken players. like come on guys, Ken and Hwoa might not have the best tools in the game but a BIG aspect of them is their ease of use and that just makes them way better than a lot of people say
I think Hwoa has a huge learning curve but once you're in you're in
I think MC Mura cracked the code about what feels off with Akuma. It's the pressure. He can't really stay up in your face like people are used to him doing and he's actually better at the kind of style Daigo is playing him with, where he zones and plays footsies whittling away health and then has explosive confirms and punishes. You just can't do stuff like vortex, mix, rushdown constantly in SF6 with him.
This is pretty accurate imo
Mura is a beast
Akuma needs to be in striking range which is really stubby for him otherwise shit just misses regularly, playing in throw range puts him at a disadvantage because he has longer startup on his normals than the really strong characters like Ken/Cammy/Guile and can get stuffed super easily.
He bizarrely excels at zoning from full screen with fireballs so if you just run away constantly you can secure a solid hp lead by the time anyone closes in on you.
It doesn't really feel good to play him as someone who has been an Akuma main since 3rd Strike. I regularly get caught by jabs because pushblock placed just enough distance between a normal and a special cancel to make the first hit of the special delayed by only a few frames at most.
His damage scaling is also really weird and I struggle to make big cash out combos actually worth the cost unless I'm at CA hp range which significantly boosts his level 3 damage. Without it I am capping out at like ~5k damage, meanwhile Ryu has a two button cash out combo ending in SA3 that does 70%
His pressure strings are incredibly predictable and he has no real options for opening an opponent up if they choose to just sit back and block, I have serious problems with Guile players which end up coming down to getting a life lead and running the round clock down to the single digits to pressure them into moving.
On top of that you can just completely outclass most akuma players by blocking low.
Don't get me started on his Drive Rush being one of the slowest and least ground-covering in the game which gives him even more trouble converting fireball pressure into ground gains.
If I had to break him down in one phrase or sentence it would be "All risk, no reward"
Gief isn't cheap in this version, he's just not handicapped to hell like the first version.
He's not as meter hungry and he can actually damage drive gauge now. Something he wasn't really doing in the previous patch.
This patch normalized him essentially.
I don't think he's top 5. He's better, but I think people are trippin.
Agreed. I think it's also the fact that so many people are playing Akuma right now too, who basically dies to like three good hits from Gief at most. So of course Gief ends up feeling "overpowered".
I think gief is mid-high tier, the people who still think hes low tier need a huge reality check
I feel like he’s maybe top ten now? Maybe? Somewhere between 8th and 12th?
@@maxpflughoeft6806Probably not top 10, hes really good don't get me wrong but he's still a character with clear weaknesses
Yeah man. ken players are the biggest most annoying downplayers ever. And the biggest cry babies whenever they finally see a nerf.
oh no hes the worst shoto that surely must mean he is literally unplayable
He's the best shoto statistically, that's the tilting part
In the opposite direction (in any fighting game) zoners (and often puppet characters) are complained about until they fade into obscurity
Dhalsim has an almost 70% win rate against Lily? Oof.
critical thinking devil strikes yet again
It's an atrocious matchup, She barely gets any reward for whiff punishing his limbs, He can punish windstock from anywhere on the screen and his heavy punch stuffs spire approaches. It's unreasonably difficult to get in, I always feel like I'm behind on drive meter meanwhile he can set up his fireball teleport nonsense for free pressure.
You need to understand that the pool of players above 1700MR are low and they usually play against each others without even talking about the same players having multiple characters around the same rankings.
@@evalangley3985 It just stands WAY out compared to every other stat there for >1700MR matchups.
Good.
When I was 4 I liked Ken because he controlled like Ryu, but he wears red and his dragon punch LIGHTS ON FIRE!!!! No matter how good or bad, I will always love Ken.
literally me
One thing that skews this negatively for Ryu and Guile is I think it's comparatively easier for someone who has strong fundamentals to get Master with those characters, but afterwards it's a bit tough to keep up once things like just solid fireball/dp won't beat everyone, as at that point everyone uses the system well. I think they can coast through the mid level pretty well that way for a while, whereas other characters might have a struggle start earlier in ranked, but they climb the plateau earlier too since they were forced to reach deeper in learning phases before even getting Master.
If that's the case, it would speak even higher of Ken too lol. Means he's a good investment the whole time.
If the "best" character is only 52%, seems like a pretty well-balanced game.
The gief buffs aint really ham, we rarely see him as good and he adds so much more variety in tournaments with characters like him being viable, plus what you said about itazan mauling a chun player was on them, chun is still the better character
TLDR: grapplers can be good and learn the mu
I wish more people talked about how phenomenally balanced this patch really is.
Ken players are a plague, and have been since s1 of SFV. This hasn't changed to this day
I mean it started in SFIV at least, but there’s also third strike ken who is like the third best character, and ken’s pretty good in at least one version of alpha, and O. Ken has safe light DP in ST. Ken has always been very strong and very easy to play, but Ken players think they are really good because Ken is a shoto so they assume he can’t be that dumb, as that’s reserved for “gimmick” characters
Players pro or not need to understand that it takes longer than two weeks to master a character. Perceiving disadvantages as a weakness without taking the time to figure out how to overcome them is a flaw in the player not the character. This is why I admire character loyalist over top-tier chasers.
One thing I think most people (except extreme downplayers) can agree on is that there's at least no longer any bad shotos in this game, I don't think year 1 Ryu was ever even bad but didn't really do enough to be worth using, Akuma has overtaken Ryu as the go to fireball war shoto but those buffs especially for Hashogeki are still super good even if they were overrated at first
I think the secret with Ryu is that Shoto players are most disloyal players on the planet, so the best players are just playing another shoto.
These people need to play an old fighting games to understand how tier lists don't matter now. The only reason people play top tiers is because they want to skew their odds of winning by
Honey wake up, its the ken downplay all over again
Sajam doing hard work lifting those Zangief MR stats.
Shoto players have this weird idea that their characters are eternally “fair” no matter how good they are because they’re fucking boring but any character with any level of interesting mechanics is a “balance problem”
Not just shoto players
Any player of any more conventional character has this mindset
If a matchup is not the standard flowchart, the character is a balance problem
damn, calling them op or braindead sometimes, I may get. But boring? Thats a new one to me
Shoto players have nightmares about "gimmicks"
@@marcoelmago9211 Yeah, I don't really agree with the boring part
If the shoto is boring that means the entire game is boring
Shotos will ALWAYS be more dominant in SF than any other archetype because their core design is built with all the essential tools, lack of weaknesses and being easy to use. Their consistence across the board means that at worst a shoto is just mediocre and at best they're meta defining. How many times has a shoto been bottom tier with the exception of joke characters (Dan and Sean)?
All I know is that anyone who beats me is getting carried by their character, and anyone I beat is because I outplayed them...
I don’t about the specific rankings when it comes to character strength. What bothers me about phrases like “worst shoto” is people implying the character isn’t good at all
Tokido Is like a mine canary, if he goes for a certain character you can bet on the character to be the best.
Snake eyez be bloating the stats give me full screen SPD
Tier list anytime soon? Im interested in saying who john sajam thinks is good
@Brian_F would never engage in this kind of conversation. He FIRMLY believes capcom has made a PERFECTLY balance game where at the highest level it is truly up to the players skill & wit! He really needs that capcom sponsorship! DONT U DARE THINK THIS GAME HAS IMBALANCES OF ANY KIND!
Dont think Akuma is top 5 strictly because that health, in a game with stupid easy damage is actually a BIG DEAL and the damage that he does, is not any better or worse then the average character in SF6. He does great damage, but its not like his max damage super 3 combo is like 75% health easy. If it was, closer to that, Akuma would be the best character period....but its not.
People overrated his damage. Midscreen, he's not doing much more than anyone else.
@@WutTheDeuceGaming Exactly. Hes only really nasty in the corner.....but so is everyone else.
my takeaway from this video is that they should put sean in the game
Nah, Luke literally has almost every single one of Sean's moves
@neobahumut707 if you've never played or seen Sean I could see how you could believe that.
@@neobahumut707 he has a jank tatsu?
Thanks man, finally someone with some logical reasoning, players like Tokido have been downplaying Ken for a full year and we should 100% trust their opinion on Akuma only 3 weeks after release ? With all due respect there are plenty of reasons why he'd say that in a non genuine way, being to get attention, because he doesn't want to invest in Akuma while he thinks Ken is better than ever this season and he has experience with it, because he's thinking to really pick up Akuma after but and redoes the season 1 downplay scheme etc. That being said Akuma already got serious results with Kawano making it to top 3 of DH Summer and Akuma was the #1 and #2 most represented i top 64/32, not bad for a 3 weeks old character.
nuckledu 1199 rating. 100% responsible for that chart LMAO
He finally breaks his silence LMAO
I never understood downplaying your main if he is top tier / elite. Just be proud of it and represent your character! Sometimes I think people are just insecure...
FYI: I played Urien in SFV & now Luke in SF6 😈😈😈 Waiting on Lord Bison
Shocking, modern fighting game has 15 characters as comfortbale top 5 spot, more at 11
Someone should make a chart with only pros in tournament matches, I think the Data would be much better.
The data would be worse. Its a much smaller variety of players and a much larger gap in skill between the players.
i agree, the ed downplay has GOT to end.
Ken is the worst shoto? As a ken player that is just a lie. With that said i dont think there's a way to weaken him without making him trash. He just have really good solid foundations. Jinrai kick is a great move, the same with the running specials and I'm against completely destroying a character. Maybe slightly nerf his corner carry? His nerfs felt pretty square overall. Same with the buffs some worse characters got. Jamie is actually fine for example
The downplay will never stop. Asking for that is like asking for fortnite to not be popular.
I hope they don't get Ed nerfed, because I bought the dip just like I did with Luke in the closed beta lol
The numbers at 1700+MR definitely don't support Guile being top tier, not to mention top 1 like in some tier lists.
"Is Akuma a weak character?" now hits different...
Yeah!! I’m sick and tired of downplaying Street Fighter 6 and I’m simply not going to do it anymore. This game is smart and cool and really fun.
Just kidding,
I’ve never downplayed Street Fighter 6. 😎
I just play Ken no matter if he is good or bad bc he is the coolest shoto. Keeping it simple here
I can't believe the Ken propaganda actually got to me. I genuinely thought that Ryu might be better than Ken now, but man, it was propaganda spread by the Ken mains! Honda bros, forgive me, I will redeem myself by headbutting every Ken player on round start :c
Ken really big winner of Season 2 patch.
I see why people say that Guile is the strongest or one of the strongest. But I always see some Guile in a tournament run be like Du or Caba and they keep their opponent out almost the whole game, then they make 1 mistake get pushed to the corner and guess wrong twice and lose. It seems like you can do great the whole time but mistime a boom and eat a jump in or misjudge a flashkick and eat a whole punish and it ends up feeling like your booms and some pokes didn't do that much especially with your lower than average combo damage outside of corner. But thats just my low-MR opinion
I can't believe there's a 7-3 matchup in this game. lily dies to dhalsim. another dooity is that the manon zangief matchup is perfectly tied, jamie akuma is almost tied.
You hate it, but water without ice will always be the best.
I dont watch a lot of SF content, i dont like other people's opinions and mindsets to influence mine. That being said, im glad im not the only one who thinks that ken and zangief are better than people let on. As Akuma, i have more problems against Gief and Ken this patch than i did playing against them as Juri or Ryu previous. Gief just needs 1 knockdown then you play RPS a couple times and die. Ken just throws out c mk drive rush all day and it works even when you know its coming.
Protester sign video title lol
ive had a taste
been listening to nago downplayers with their "but bloodrage though" since season 1
hehe danzai go brr 623H 623H 623H (my goldlewis ancestry is showing)
but normal mode is so baaaaad thooooough
Can we start a Ken downplay thread here? Only reply to this comment if you can downplay Ken to make it seem like he's the weakest in the game!
He has too many options, which means as a Ken player you have an overloaded mental stack. His corner carry is too strong, meaning you end up pushing yourself from one corner to the other when you could have just used back throw to switch sides.
He has to spend 3 bars to do a level 3 super.
No command grab means you have to resort to his numerous, extremely powerful low/overhead/frame trap/throw loop mixup tools that all lead to massive damage and oki setups.
Sthk and jinrai Lk ender are a whopping minus 5 on block and can be punished if you purposely space them really badly.
Terrible character
I honestly think ken is definitely better than akuma and ryus skirting the line.
I recently got Zangeif to Masters, and my take is that he's REALLY freaking good. The amount of damage he does without spending any drive meter is immense.
Getting to save drive meter for extended pressure sequences is absolutely terrifying, and he's absolutely a contender for top 5 in this season. That being said, his defense is still really dookie despite having wake-up drive reversal. So he still has his pitfalls.
Alas, I will still downplay him because I don't want him nerfed 💀
@@HCG-FGC'least you're honest! A commendable trait to have!.. mostly!
Zangief is so much better it's crazy
Idk about top 5, but he absolutely got the biggest increase in tier out of everyone this patch. Wakeup drive reversal is actually huge for him, as well as headbutt giving hellstab. I could probably live without the knee (though I like the knee) and wheel kick buffs, they seem a little obnoxious and are probably the most contentious buffs for him.
@@maxpflughoeft6806 I'd go as far as saying not even top 10. There are just way to many amazing characters in the game right now. I think the amount of buffs he got is overshadowing the shit other characters got.
What irks me the most is that the Ken players can whine and cry in their privileged little baby bubble all they want and it’s fine, I guess, albeit annoying, but that whining and crying led to an almost overall net gain for Ken this patch. They actually threw such a big tantrum their favorite shoto still gets to get full screen corner carry off any combo and jinrai as a move that only got buffed. Injustice doesn’t quite describe it when you see the success the pros have with Ken. Capcom clearly listened to the mountain of whining on twitter. The Ken mains won the battle to keep their S tier character through godly downplay
Us Ken mains know the pain of having to fight an uphill battle against broken characters and not being recognised as the low-tier underdogs that we are.
😂
High level players say Guile is really strong, yet his winrate is the second lowest in high rank lol
seems like a decent time to be getting into Manon, I was going down my list of who I wanted to get well versed into and people were not kidding when they said she was an honest character PHEW. I also never ventured much into grab heavy characters so it's definitely a nice change of pace
Imagine the downplaying when 2XKO releases
I play zangief my average MR was 1300 now its 1500 XD
I will not downplay, zangief is strong and i love it
just play the character you love and are passionate about who cares about who s high on the tier list and win rate being high just play!!!
No
People who play for money think differently I guess
if you play to win you should pick someone in the top 5
I think it shows how much more popular Ken is then Ryu, since it seems more people are upset that he seems better then Ken then there are people who are happy that Ryu is better.
Tokido is sandbagging and Angry Bird is either sandbagging too or stupid. Ken is still top but Akuma is better.
5:50 wouldn't loyalists inflate the win rate of the character, instead of lowering it? Typically thats how I've seen it play out in games like league
I haven't seen the video yet but my response on a read: Sajam is once again wrongjam.
Try saying Battle Arena "Melbin" or "Melben" to really win over the Aussies.
Depends on how you interpret it for which of those you should aim for but almost no Americans can get it from reading Melbourne.
I mained third strike since downplay
I bought the game for akuma, i dont care where he is i just wanna tatsu into dp 😂
Starting to think guile was a mid tier last season and mid tier this season
Yes please it’s honestly so dragged out. I was in a stream the other day and this one dude swore ryu was still trash it’s insane how defensive people get when you tell them their character is solid because they can’t accept the fact there just trash
The fact that Daigo isnt maining Ryu and Tokido not maining Akuma is very dissapointing they are both good enough to win tourneys from what ive seen so far
i just want them to nerf jinrai
Zangief players stay winnig 😤
They shouldn't nerf anybody just buff take a lesson from MK1
Rashid is top 3
As a JP player with similar stats, AKI, Deejay, Juri, Luke, Cammy, Kimberly and Rashid are my worst matchups. Guile can be a real nerve breaking situation to. Contrary to that chart, I believe Dhalsim and Akuma are not as bad matchups as the charts are showing. And ironically, I now believe ED is slept on... he is literally a monster on the right hands.
As a Marisa player, life sucks, life still sucks, if by a miracle I manage to walk somebody to the corner and anti air them when they try to cross then life is GREAT for a moment.
Fax I hate this shi
I would be interested in seeing some damage comparisons between seasons 1 and 2. I main chun-li, and I'm really feeling the damage nerfs. Trying to fight a Zangief in season 2 is rough. The amount of clean hits I need compared to Zangief makes the matchup really hard.
The mindgames have left the video game