This is What Really Bad Match-Ups Actually Look Like (New Hold Back to Block Video)
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- streamed Aug. 10, 2021
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I'm pretty sure that in Vanilla Divekick, Dr. Shoals vs Jefailey was 10-0.
There's the gem system, where you get to pick which stat between speed, jump height or meter building you wanted to boost, but there was also the Yolo Gem, which gave your opponent 4 rounds for free, putting them on game point, but also gave you all 3 bonuses and like triple the boost to each. Along with this, Jefailey has a mechanic, where his head grows bigger with each round he wins, making his jump floatier and higher, but also making him a bigger target, and picking yolo gem against him would set him to max immediately. Shoals with her jump height and ability to alter her kick arc meant that there was I believe, no option Jefailey could do that Shoals couldn't cover. They fixed this in Addition Edition by keeping his head normal size when you pick Yolo
Bro I read this 🤣🤣🤣🤣 excitedly 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don't think Jefailey Shoals is 10-0
Just really bad for Jefailey
He does have some things going for him in the matchup
His floatiness helps him match shoals height and can contest her a bit since one of her weaknesses is characters who can get above her or control the air more than her
His kick angle is also really good
The thing that gunks up this matchup is obviously the massive boosts shoals gets from the yolo gem and the fact that one headshot probably means Jefailey loses but it's possible for him to squeak out a round with his strengths
And he only has to win 1 round
@@PotofGlue She can cover all the options at once, that's literally what I'm talking about
The best 10-0 matchup is me against everyone else
Damn you must be really good. *kappa*
Chadly
You never faced me
Dang that’s a lot of losses
ruclips.net/video/OC375rujZhs/видео.html
I remember finding this video once that's some guy playing a game, getting angrier as the video goes on. Eventually the guy yells "FUCK!" and throws his controller, then the video ends. You can't see the game he's playing, the TV is off-screen, but if you listen carefully, there are a few points where you can hear a muffled, "Tiger! Tiger! Tiger! Tiger! Tiger! Tiger!" Right before the man throws his controller, there's a barely-audible Cammy death scream.
Crazy no one mentioned Old Sagat vs Cammy in SF2, it's legitimately unwinnable, the only thing Cammy can do about Tiger Shots is to neutral jump, if she jumps foward Sagat can react and anti-air sweep her and that's it
Q vs Remy in 3rd Strike is also a really funny match-up, Remy has zoning but does no damage, Q has no mobility but has a ton of HP
It's either 99 seconds of Q being a sandbag or Q gets in once and Remy dies, both characters are so bad that it's interesting to watch, it's actually kinda balanced, altho Q has the advantage because of how high his damage output is, which makes his parries very dangerous
doesnt cammy have her dodge thing?
@@khhnator I assume you mean Spinning Knuckle? The motion for it is a weird butchering of a half circle forward (such that doing an actual hcf is more inconsistent than doing the actual weird motion which is kinda difficult), it's projectile invincibility does not begin immediately, which really compounds with the drastic speed differences in Sagat's three fireballs, and the move is so slow/Sagat recovers so fast that even a succesful dodge with it doesn't amount to anything.
Watch the RUclips video "Nakamura Cammy vs Muneo O.Sagat" to see a demonstration. The last thing that happens in the fight is a failed knuckle into stun.
@@Copperhell144 oh ic, i personally never been a cammy nor a heavy fireball character layer
Cool and informative. A good takeaway for me was that 10-0 matchups only exist when the devs test their game while on paint thinner prescriptions.
In Melee, Bowser-Shiek MU is declared 100-0 by Mewtwoking himself. One grab from anywhere on stage is instant death at any percents, and a f-tilt/f-air leads to offstage which either leads to an edgeguard in which is instant death or leads to a ledgetrap which is hard to escape and one wrong move can lead to a grab or get hit off stage to be edgeguarded. It's all death
Bowser moment
Yeah unlike a lot of these "winner zones the bruiser character for 99 seconds but if they get hit they pop" situations Sheik just also has the better punish game lol
Not saying it's not bad but that doesn't sound 10-0 to me. One grab from most places on the stage is instant death for any character vs Ice Climbers and they have some pretty strong losing matchups. Obviously Bowser sucks and Sheik is way better than ICs but 10-0 is hyperbole when a theoretically well played Bowser could just avoid getting hit by these things.
A 10-0 matchup is when there's nothing a character could conceivably do to actually counter a strategy. I'm not sure if you've seen Brawl Bowser vs Falco but that's way closer to 10-0 than anything Melee Bowser has.
@@RainbowLizardOne The difference is Bowser doesn't have to tools to platform camp or air camp to avoid chain grabs; Shiek doesn't need to desync; isn't vulnerable to Bowser's juggling; doesn't need a Nana to do chaingrabs or play the game (which can be eliminated easiy by juggling); can't be camped by Bowser and can camp him though; and a top of all Shiek has much better mobility, projectile, and f-tilt making it nearly impossible for bowser just to get a meaningful hit.
If Shiek had true 0-deaths on every character like Bowser, she would undoubtedly be SS tier. What makes icies not top tier with 0 to deaths is their awful exploitable weaknesses that top tiers have tools to easily exploit, weaknesses that Shiek doesn't have with strong tools that Bowser doesn't have. This is undoubtedly the worse matchup in melee
While that sounds bad, it doesn't sound like a 10-0. 10-0 is pretty much reserved for matchups that are actually broken, where there is literally no way one character can win the matchup: usually an unavoidable setup that leads into an inescapable situation. Even Zod-Luthor that was shown in this video is 9-1. The Chen-Iori matchup is closer to what I consider a 10-0, because no combination of inputs on the Chen side can stop the Iori player from getting that infinite.
Bad matchup: Any character I lose to (all of them)
Good matchup: None, I'm just so good I can overcome them all
All this matchup talk and nobody brought up the worst matchup of all time? Sonic fox vs perfect legend. It’s literally a 13-0 matchup
The players have to be equally skilled.
Fucking got em
Ouch! That was so harsh!
from what I can tell, justice in +R is a character with both 8-2 and 2-8 matchups depending on if the other character can deal with nukes or not
The best matchup is the Schrodinger's 10:10 matchup between Potemkin and Chipp in Guilty Gear Strive.
This is just the Death Slug analogy.
9:06
Jank as it is, Pot's best option against this is probably using back megafist, to put him over the hit box of Axl's js and simultaneously giving a chance to snipe it's hurtbox. Don't know how hard it is to do, but I had it happen to me a few times in a match where I got too js happy.
Congrats, you widened the gap. Axl thanks you.
congrats on 100k. Pretty crazy seeing you go from like 14 or 15k to this in such a short time. I think a lot of people that were either hesitant to try other fighting games or play them for fun were inspired by a lot of the content you put out showing a learning process of multiple titles if I am being honest. Not many in the fgc had tackled that niche and I think it was done well. Keep it up man.
Roll in MVC2. The only character I know with 55 losing matchups, most of them 7-3 or worse, and only a 5-5 matchup against herself.
The only character I know to have the lowest tier named after her.
Yep, Roll tier was a thing in MVC2.
People still mained Ganondorf, Gief, Chin, Luthor or Raam despite their horrible matchups.
No tournament player in over 20 years of competitive MVC2 has ever used Roll.
TvC Roll: Allow me to introduce myself
@@meathir4921 Never played TvC but I find it hard to imagine how Capcom could f'up the character more to be honest.
@@mappybc6097 No she's busted in TvC
I'm pretty sure that Gold Lightan from Tatsunoko vs Capcom has a 10-0 matchup against certain characters.
Gold Lightan is a giant with full hyper armor on everything. But one of the few things that gets through his hyper armor is command grabs and certain hit-grabs. In particular, Tekkaman Blade's medium and heavy fireballs grab on hit, putting you in an animation that leaves you nearly full screen from your opponent. This means that Blade can just spam his fireballs to keep Lightan out, and if he gets hit *once* he gets put full screen and has to try to get in again.
Saki also has a command grab which puts Lightan in stun, removing his hyper armor and allowing you to actually combo him. This is in addition to being a zoning character with an unblockable super that she can use to blow Lightan away, making the matchup nearly unwinnable.
Yuzuriha vs Waldstien in UNICLR the CURRENT version of the game is literally an 8-2 matchup, because Yuzu uses physical attacks to zone, where Wald's only anti zoning tools are proJectile destroying normals. Ironically, he has an even matchup with Vatista, the unquestionably most broken bullshit character in the game.
I don’t know, man… Merkava has a lot of bullshit, as well. And he doesn’t have to maintain charge to do it. Vatista is very busted; don’t get me wrong. But Merkava is riding the same train.
@@TheTouristArrives What are you even talking about. Vatista *cannot be counterhit* for the exclusive reasoning of priviledge. She has the best meterless DP in the game, Merkava has a force trade DP that costs meter, who's invuln ends on the first active frame.
They are hilariously incomparable
@@The-toast Simmer down, squirt. No need to get angry.
@@TheTouristArrives Then quit telling me bullshit like you know what's goin on!
@@The-toast Damn, you actually mad, huh? Okay, youngster. 👍
In the last 10 years, there are some games like p4au, where's it's like, 90 percent 5-5/5.5-4.5 MUs, then you got shit like kanji V Margaret which is literally 9-1/8-2, it's great
4.6-5.4 matchups are still very winnable
Zoners can't keep the rushdowns away forever
G vs Zangief in sfv is pretty brutal. As a G player I feel guilty.
At least with VS1 the Gief has hope that "Maybe if I knock him down I can get my offense started".
@@kevingriffith6011 yeah if the G shows no mercy with vskill 2 he can double back dash get one free charge. Then fire ball till 2nd charge. After that fireballspam/ vskill2 cancel. Basically gg
Hell yes congrats on the RUclips subs milestone! I've been learning fighting games since the pandemic started, and your channel has been an incredible resource for me. Keep up the good shit Sajam 👌 💯
I've never seen Axl gameplay that's got me hyped
LordKnight did a good video on my pick - Tager vs. Nu-13 from BBCT. Shoutouts to Tager vs. anyone from the top 3 in that game actually.
NRS games are funny with this, MK9 had some crazy ass matchups with Sonya, including I believe an interaction with Reptile and someone else, where if reptile got hit by something he was in Blockstun longer so it was an infinite or something
I hate blaming the matchup but as a Pot/Goldlewis player, Axl is truly awful. Pot definitely has a better chance, I honestly think GL's best option against Axl is just waiting for Level 3 Security and hoping Thunderbird or Burn It Down gives you the chance to be within the same third of the screen as Axl for once. At the very least it's the most difficult matchup in Strive.
Axl can hit you out of Thunderbird and use command-grab invincibility against Burn It Down tho...
@@Stickrulez22 That is true as well due to the long startup of both. Sometimes he can try to use disjointed BTs to smack the hurtboxes a little ways down the chain, but without a proper punish situation you're swinging blind unless Axl gets too predictable.
@@goldglovegrappler1382 yep, really hope they figure something out for GL in the October patch
asymmetry in fighting games is nice and all but an unfun matchup is no fun
I absolutely think Goldlewis needs buffs, but one of Strive's problems right now is how underrepresented some archetypes feel, with the roster being GG1's relatively plain roster and then Leo and Anji, characters I'd put in similar categories so Sol.
I guess what I'm saying is that one absolutely terrible matchup for Pot maybe feels way worse early on with the relatively small roster, but I think is mostly a normal experience for grapplers. If they really are adding Slayer and Baiken that's another even and one favorable matchup added to the list, you know? And it might even out characters like Sol without even having to touch em.
But yeah Goldlewis sucks please help him
No love for nu13 vs tager
There’s an LK video I saw on that matchup and DAMN, it is messed up
@@aureliaaugusta1507 LK?
@@FelipeSS98 ArcSystem Works legend LordKnight
Dissidia 012, while an arena fighter, has a fucked up match-up thats anywhere between a 2-8 and 0-10 depending on circumstance and who you ask. Exdeath, a top 3 character, has a nasty counter-based gameplan and leverages the best meter gain in the game to brutally oppress opponents that dare to be in his range. To add to this, Exdeath can force people to approach into his range with an unmissable, infinite range, largely unblockable, super delayed (yet cancellable) move that can combo off assists. Yet Exdeath is on the losing end of this particular matchup as Squall's Revolver Drive can be held down indefinitely and always blocks this move, so Exdeath is taken out of his game and is forced to approach Squall where Squall's own close range gameplan is very difficult for Exdeath to deal with. 012 matches have no timer so Squall can theoretically force a game of chicken for as long as he pleases. The matchup varies on assist choice as Exdeath can certainly run a different assist to make things easier, but it's still a very uphill matchup and if you load in with the standard Aerith assist you are forced to play Squall's game.
Technically, other characters can actually do something similar, with only 3 characters being completely unable to block Exdeath's long-range pressure, but other characters are reliant on timing specific block frames on random moves to do so while Squall just holds a single button.
Wow I haven't heard anyone mention Dissidia in so long
Me who mains Zidane: You're too slow
As a Squall main since Dissidia 1's launch, I appreciate you dropping this knowledge. It is absolutely a fucked up matchup. I feel bad saying it but I got a sick twisted enjoyment out of seeing my local group's Exdeath players stop being smug whenever they saw Squall on that matchup screen.
I'm pretty sure you can dodge the move fairly reasonably, but moreover I did not know you could hold Revolver Drive forever and it kept its Magic Deflect guardpoint forever either
Exdeath is still real struggle hours either way, dude is a menace
The worst 0-10 match up is me versus my mental state :(
"you know my big thing im going to do for hitting 100k? Absolutely nothing I'm just gonna keep making new shit" Love it
Yooooo. Congrats on 100k! I recently subbed because I started watching GG Strive content and I love your laid back style. Keep it up.
5:37 and 5:43 are everyone’s thoughts on this.
It's amazing injustice 1 was even liked as a game. It had a bunch of stupid stuff.
Also shout out brawl mk vs Ganon.
Matchups are a social construct is my new fav meme btw
I love your face, Sajam. Congrats on 100k.
Happy chaos vs ino in strive used to be extra cursed :3
Congratz on 100K subs. That's pretty huge dude.
As a thawk main all of ssf4’s life span and on.. that blanka match…
Wizard vs Wonderboy
Congrats on 100k sajam
Congrats on 100k!
Let me talk to you about MK9 Sheeva. Now MK9 Sheeva didn't have any 0-10 matchups, but she was 1-9 against Katana. On the other hand, Sheeva has ZERO 5-5 matchups. Literally her best matchups were 4-6, not in her favor. In a game with 31 characters, Sheeva had zero favorable matchups, zero even matchups, 11 4-6 matchups, while having NINETEEN matchups that were 3-7 OR WORSE (obv I'm not counting the mirror). Sheeva had FOURTEEN matchups that were considered 2-8 in her opponent's favor. So out of 30 (non mirror) matchups, 15 were either 1-9 or 2-8, and the other fifteen were 3-7 or 4-6.
MK9 Sheeva was DOGSHIT bro.
Let’s go Sajam!!! Congrats!!!
I really enjoy vids like this, would love to see more
This is why I, a Potemkin main, plays an Axl secondary. (And Leo third)
I think there should be some mention of the very first guaranteed 10- Zip featured in the video, where our bespectacled host fell victim to the dreaded MacGuffin, the plot device that ain't nothin' nice, ya hate to see it
Eyyy, congrats on the 1hundo
IIRC in the PSP Dissidia Duodecim, Exdeath vs Emporer was 10-0
im a shin main, they patched this out like immediately. Shin has a great back dash, but terrible forward. Eventually she runs out of stage and if raam catches her once, he has so many routes to 80 percent damage
I’ve been playing Shin for the last couple months, what exactly changed when they patched her? Was it recovery or distance thing, or something on orb?
@@XIVDock they made the orb disappear when its off screen for 2 seconds. before it wouldn't disappear at all when its off screen.
They did also added a faster wake up from exchange ender and hard knock down ender. her oki used to let her stack 2-3 mix ups on top of each other (so sudden block high, low, then other side etc) and it was basically impossible to guess right
God damn I have lost the jackie chan mu one multiple times
The only (9-1 or 10-0) one I can think of is Smash 4 Mario vs Little Mac.
While Little Mac is a hard hitting demon on flat ground, Smash 4 custom moves gave Mario two wind box attacks that could launch 0% fighters to the blast zone. That plus his ability to combo everything into off-stage launches meant that because Little Mac had no off-stage recovery and no vertical reach, a Mario player could ignore his armor moves with wind boxes, or time out the character with his much better mobility.
smash 4 pac man vs little mac is funnier - pac man could just trampoline in the middle of the stage and mac literally can't do anything about it
Raam vs Gargos in KI, its pretty bad and it was worse before Raam got a small buff to his armor moves
I like grapplers so I've play a LOT of 3/7 matchups. It's not a fun life, but how else will I support my glue eating addiction?
anyone reading the comments go watch Esteban's other videos and his documentaries they're all EXTREMELY good
the only matchups I've seen be worse than like 6-4 in recent memory is like axl vs, potemkin in ggst and axl vs goldlewis, outside of that I've yet to even hear anyone claim a matchup is more than 6:4
Super late but G vs Gief is one of those that's at least 7-3. I think I've only seen footage of a Gief player winning once ever
1:14 Hide under beds😂
Heritage for the future has plenty unplayable ones
God do I hate fighting Alessi as rubber soul, not to mention all the other 8:2's, and god forbid I meet a Kak or a petshop. At least Devo has a better matchup spread
What's the david vs online Tony vid he talks about in the sf4 section?
MK9 Sheeva and Jade vs anyone else.
i thought Kenshi vs jade in MK9 is a 9-1 for Kenshi?
Baraka vs cetrion mk11 is 7-3 or 8-2
Jigglypuff ganondorf is a strange match up
Jigglypuff has a whiff punish heavy neutral and a strong edge guarding game. Ganon’s weaknesses are slow laggy moves bad mobilty and a weak recovery and general off stage game.
Ganon relies on strong single hits to build up damage or just randomly kill you since the majority of his move kill pretty early or set up for kill via ledge trapping or *UP AIR* . Jigglypuff’s main weakness is a weak grounded game and having the lowest weight (the thing that decides how far you get sent after getting hit) and lowest fall speed (this mean he gets sent upwards easily. And will immediately die should her shield break, ganon is very good at threatening shields. Not the best but pretty dann good.
On one hand jigglypuff can just get one hit and send ganon off stage for an easy edge guard. On the other hand ganon can get a single f smash or up smash or fair or bair or dair or really anything at past 50% and jigglypuff will die.
Note that his grab bnb deal a good +25% combined with pummels and you will be at kill percent very fast as jigglypuff.
Super volatile match up
Nu-13 vs Tager in Calamity Trigger was 10-0 I think or atleast really fucking bad.
Its not 10-0 but its very bad. Tager gets about 2 chances to play the game per round whenever Sparkbolt comes off of cooldown. If Sparkbolt hits he can win, and if it doesn't its back to suffering for another 30 seconds or so.
Not an impossible matchup, but since you spend 95% of the match just waiting for the Sparkbolt meter to fill its incredibly miserable to play.
8:24 and people have the gall to say that Axl doesn't need to be changed
All he really needs is for the hurtbox to be extended on jS so that it will actually lose to anti-airs. It wouldn't even hurt him that badly in most matchups he'd just have to change up his options.
@@jasonslade6259 no, he needs more changes. Snail for example has inconsistent combo capacity where it seemingly drops for some reason sometimes.
He's currently doubled down on his matchup spread. He's a joke against who he already had trouble before like Millia or Chipp, while he's extra oppressive on big bodies which he was already beating before. Cherry and Mantis being the most blatant case of being utterly useless against airborne speedsters while extra debilitating those already struggling due to slower movement.
Now he's currently sitting on the game's most skewed matchup off of one button.
Axl is just badly designed. There's no matchup where both players have fun when this character is involved: as you're saying, he either destroys some characters or he gets completely demolished by others.
I have no clue how they can fix this
Level 3 X factor Vergil has a 10-0 match up with every character in any fighting game
Laughs in Lv3 X-factor Dark Phoenix.
@@mappybc6097
*Laughs in "Now I'M MOTIVATED"*
Not aganist Zero Umvc3. He won't let you play the game.
pretty sure Nine - Tager is 10 - 0 probably the least fun match-up I've ever played you get mixed just for starting the match
Goldlewis v. Axl is not 7-3 lmao. It's worse than Potemkin v. Axl. The person in that video obviously does not play Goldlewis OR Axl.
If you can get a crisp animation intro and thumbnail like maximilian dood you might get 200k
There are a lot of fairly bad matchups in Smash, especially in Smash 4 since it has a large roster and is poorly balanced, but the worst one I can think of is Smash 4 Bayonetta vs Little Mac. Not only is Bayonetta the undisputed best character in the entire game, so much so that she was banned, Little Mac has an awful recovery and can be consistently killed at low % by most characters. Bayonetta on the other hand has 3 jumps and 2 Up Bs, so she can literally carry him off the side out of any combo.
Have you seen kazyua vs Mac? Command throw off the ledge kills at 0 🤣
smash 4 pac-man vs mac is worse i think, bc mac has literally no tools to get around pac-man just placing a trampoline in the middle of the stage and dropping hydrant and charging bonus fruit
Gigas is 1-9 against everyone.
Speaking of Axl vs. Pot, Jmcroft's Axl got rekt by a pot: ruclips.net/video/7Olfmg_KBGU/видео.html
Good shit Mr.Jam
Ivan Ooze with the full-cast 10-0 coming through
When he (accidentally) said Power Rangers I thought it'd get a mention.
Can only wonder what they were smoking by making a character entirely invulnerable to lows
First thing I thought of.
@@Clickstop24 Shit is, he's entirely invulnerable to combos too. His invincible move can be used when he's in hitstun.
It's a boss character.
Congrats on the 100k!!
That Chin clip would have been funny on Will it Kill. Freezing it right before the round start lol.
Vanilla Seth was so wack, he could do Ultra 1 with a fireball on screen. So once he had ultra he could just throw booms from far away, and if you ever jumped or did a move to go through the boom, he ultra'd you.
I think the right move as Zangief was to just immediately eat the ultra on purpose, incredibly miserable.
idk if it's 10-0, probably 9-1. But BlazBlue Calamity Trigger Nu-13 vs Tager was absolutely disgusting.
i believe carl vs tager was even worse. which is saying something.
Susan vs Izanami is 8-2 at best
Next will it kill clips will be paused from the stage select screen
Me vs My opponent is a worse matchup than any shown in the video.
As a fellow me main, I feel you
The saber tooth chain grab is the funniest shit I’ve ever scene.
"A goddamn sniper rifle" My fucking sides, lol
Chin on the italy stage in kof96, "i cant block, i cant do anithing" probably one of the few times saying this is actually true.
I was expecting the video to pause as soon as the round started and Sajam to ask “will it kill?”
also in one nes beta of sf2 (forget which version) gief could command grab e.honda roundstart then tick throw loop him to death
In smash bros brawl, ganondorf had like, 4 8-2's or worse
The worst character in the least balanced smash game. Yeah thats gonna hurt lmao
Snake has an non 5-5 match up against himself.
@@jaksida300 port priority is a hell of a drug
@@kaleidoslug7777 "you got the superior dominant port, while I was stuck with the cursed recessive port."
That's literally nothing bro. Look at MK9 Sheeva's matchup chart. Imma copy my earlier comment on this:
"Let me talk to you about MK9 Sheeva. Now MK9 Sheeva didn't have any 0-10 matchups, but she was 1-9 against Katana. On the other hand, Sheeva has ZERO 5-5 matchups. Literally her best matchups were 4-6, not in her favor. In a game with 31 characters, Sheeva had zero favorable matchups, zero even matchups, 11 4-6 matchups, while having NINETEEN matchups that were 3-7 OR WORSE (obv I'm not counting the mirror). Sheeva had FOURTEEN matchups that were considered 2-8 in her opponent's favor. So out of 30 (non mirror) matchups, 15 were either 1-9 or 2-8, and the other fifteen were 3-7 or 4-6.
MK9 Sheeva was DOGSHIT bro."
I would love to see more videos from some fg content creators that cover match-up analysis, especially for those harder match-ups. Since I'm a Nago main, I've found that match-up vids for Axl help so much more than me going into the lab and grinding reactions to stuff.
I think a lot of people feel the same way and need to see that whichever match-up isn't insurmountable, maybe they have been looking at it from the wrong angle.
Good video!
Any advice for Goldlewis when fighting Nago?
@@duckadence I would say, try to bait slower moves like HS. Be patient, if you can make Nago get impatient and start pushing his blood gauge more and more. Either he goes into blood rage, or you catch him with a costly typhoon. Nago excels in making people panic if they are good at pressure and blood management. I haven't faced too many GLs but the ones that beat my ass were patient
Jackie Chan in Fists of Fire made it onto Sajam's channel, mission accomplished
There are a few other matchups that come close to Thorsten vs Kim too, but that one is the most blatant
Bad matchups these days are bad in completely mundane ways, which is one of the good but also kinda dull part of the modern polish.
Like not as much as having no answer but something like SFV Guile vs. Sagat where the Sagat player can very reasonably say "Is there anything my character does that his doesn't do better?"
Also matchups can massively change depending on skill level. Most long limbs characters seem to be only really balanced for high level play where they can reasonably be punished for a proportional amount to what sort of damage they can get just sticking out full screen normals.
What gets lost in the context of MUs is assuming that both characters are at high level and are exploiting the tools. Yet people are willing to overlook that info, take the hard numbers and bad situations and apply it to their low level play. At that point match ups don't matter because neither unoptimized player knows HOW to even excel at it to begin with! So unfortunately you get a new crop of players crying about 6-4/7-3 when they know nothing about the MU to begin with. And can probably be fixed/alleviated by having to change the approach and testing the player, not what the character can do.
Plus some players don't realize some MUs have very extreme momentum swings. USF4 Elena playing keep away and doing ultra2 Healing was frustrating for many chars who didn't have ways to approach her and be aggressive with their damage. But the moment said offensive chars (say E Ryu) got in, then Elena has to pray she can run away again or establish neutral or she's getting all that smoke.
@@t4d0W The reason I identified long limbs characters is specifically because they rely entirely on momentum swings. Which are harder to do if you're a beginner or even an intermediate player. Like the way they're balanced is obviously that they're supposed to take potshots and wear down an opponent but when the person gets in that they get bodied but if the player doesn't know optimal combos it's very easy for the long limbs character to get out a simple escape having only taken a suboptimal combo before reverting back to neutral (like Dhalsim just doing a Yoga Teleport or even just grabbing them). Having the tools or not, I think that accounting for execution is also a part of some matchups being different as the skill levels change.
I'm more saying that players who are for instance saying, "It's not that bad a matchup, it's a 6-4" aren't accounting for the idea that most players aren't at a high enough level and that statement may not actually be accurate since if you change what you generally assume players are capable of it very well could be a 7-3 or 8-2 and might even swing in the other character's advantage.
@@Zetact_ Grapplers and Zoners both tend to exacerbate this because they have a distinct strength that if you can leverage it, makes up disproportionately for poor skill in other zones when playing at low levels, while in turn that specialization often leaves them with greater weaknesses at higher levels, ironically they both often have the same strength in different forms, many Grapplers in the Potemkin mold have maddeningly large normals that are unsafe as hell but can chip you out in much the same way as a Dhalsim or Axl, never mind having the wherewithall and skill to drop a 360 on someone and laugh as their HP bar breaks in half
It's not usually relevant but Melee universally has the exact same problem as that KoF stage; characters who fall faster get to start playing sooner. Since your start position on the stage is determined by your controller port, you actually have some control over how bad this is for you if you're playing the floatier character. If you're not careful you can get hit before you can do anything. In matches between two fast-fallers (which is really common in a ton of the game's metas) it's not uncommon to have the characters just straight up be playing real neutral and hitting each other before the giant "GO!" text is even off the screen.
Ucf implements neutral start.
I do remember the days that a fox spawning on the platform of stadium can shine spike noobs spawning on the outside of them though.
I didn't realize sabertooth was doing the loop either I thought the video was looping to the example lol
Oh thank god someone reputable talked about the Axl vs Pot matchup in strive. I'm not trying to duck responsibility and be the "whens the patch" guy, but it do feel real bad as Pot. Just feels good for some validation. I saw people calling it 5-5 or even Pot favored on launch and just gotta wonder how bad those Axl players were.
It's rough for sure, but as much as I'd like the matchup to get better I'm not sure what they could give us that makes the Axl matchup close without making him unacceptably oppressive in others. It's not like they can give HF more hits of armor or make kMFF safe on block, and that's almost what it would take I think (barring some big system change to IB or something)
@@I_recommend_suicide The best I can come up with is making heat knuckle faster to contest the j.s? And even that could be to much in other matchups.
specifically what they could probably do is make Axl's chains fully non-disjoint but just to grabs, so HK. it wouldnt affect too many other MUs but being able to grab the very tip of his chain I think would do what it needs for those MUs. Pot still loses but its better, and most other MUs dont change.
I think that MU's just the price to pay for character archetypes. There isn't a whole lot you can do for that matchup, because it's just the nature of the design of the characters. It's grappler vs zoner. It's a dynamic as old as Gief vs Guile. If you downgraded Axl, he'd start seriously struggling outside of this one matchup. If you upgraded Potemkin, he'd become too abusable within all other matchups. If you just evened out their strengths and weaknesses for a more consistent MU experience, you'd kinda lose the charm of playing the characters in the first place. This is one of those cases, where you just gotta admit that if you play an extreme archetype like Potemkin, you're encouraged/expected to run a secondary to cover his worst matchups or you should kinda just expect to have rough sets like this.
pot Axl is probably a 4-6, pot has the double jump to mix up his air approach and evade the up rensengeki follow up. Axl has a lot of recovery after the rensengeki boom, so you can try to hammer fall right after.
In general patience and knowing how to mix up your approaches is the key to a more positive match up. But I agree that without knowing much Axl can tear you down as a pot
I see, Sajam doesn't know the glory of Saturday Morning Scrublords or he'd know about Fists of Fire.
"You know what my big thing i'ma do for 100k? Absolutely nothing. I'm just gonna keep making new shit"
This is the best thing he could give us. Keep it coming and congrats!
That Zod vs. Lex matchup is a big part of why I don't play NRS games. Their philosophy towards zoning makes things super unfun to me.
@@leithazizpagy4699 Yeah. I have no problem with zoning. I just don't like how NRS approaches zoning.
Meta Knight vs Ganon in Brawl, a true travesty
Bruh, Ganon in brawl Is honestly a complete disaster. He only has one move that’s considered okay (down air). The rest of his kit is dogshit.
So is Falco vs Ganon
Something I kinda like is that in SSBM, fox has the best matchup spread in the whole game, with at least 5-5 with everyone and up to 9 MU’s that are 8-2 or worse. In order to take advantage of his overwhelming power, you need to play with precision so ridiculous top players have been giving themselves hand injuries after playing this character for so long.
meta knight in brawl dominated every matchup that wasn't pikachu, but I guess ganon is the most extreme
@@abirneji you did not play brawl LOL. Ice climbers are actually a VERY close #2 in brawl
A week or two after Strive released, I made an off-hand comment on the subreddit that Axl-Pot felt like the worst matchup in the game, and I was downvoted and mocked. After watching this, the petty vindication feels pretty sweet ngl.
I think there’s a few 7-3’s in SFV and I think they all belong to Gief. Birdie, Abigail, Sim and G all have potential to be 7-3. Bison vs Nash is fucking horrific too.
I haven't played IJ. But how do other characters interact with Zod? It seems like his zoning tools seem really strong regardless of who he is facing
There's a lot of characters who have teleports or other anti-projectile tools that can deal with Zod's zoning more easily, or they can trade with their own projectiles in a favorable way. Its extra miserable for Lex because he's so tall. You have to have very clean inputs to consistently get the lowest possible air fireball, if you're slightly sloppy a lot of them will be high enough that shorter characters can walk or dash under them, but against Lex you can play the character for like an hour and get air fireballs low enough to hit him standing. If it wasn't for the fact that his air fireball is specifically flagged to whiff on crouching, it would be totally impossible to approach as Lex because his crouching stance is taller than some standing characters.
To be clear, this version of Zod is still top tier, its just most of his matchups aren't *this* bad.
I remember a guy telling me that back in the days of original GGX2, Anji vs May was 8-2 in May's favor cause she can go through all of Anji's Guard Points. Is this true?
IIRC May’s straight dolphin bounced far away and was plus on guardpoint. Anji got punished for guardpointing said dolphin. Anji’s counter (guardpoint followups) doesn’t reach her either.
There's a jmcrofts video about E. Honda vs Dee Jay on ST, where the mu is 9-1 for Dee Jay iirc and the Honda player wins. I don't think I ever saw a mu in the latest fg games that looked as miserable as that
Thinking about how BBCT Arakune had a 1 button infinite blockstring against like 30~50% of the cast with 2D2D2D2D2D2D2D
Also BBCT had a guard bar so you'd eventually get guard broken into full combo OMEGALUL
Grapplers don’t mind being grapplers with 8-2/9-1 matchups because we subsist off that shock value of killing in one moment. Gief v JP is torture but you can always tell the moment JP’s brain breaks when Gief crawls his way in.
AE Yun vs Dhalsim was a nightmare lmfao. A no height restriction dive kick against Sim? You hate to see it.
Damn, new haircut, where are the birds gonna live?
Congratulations on the 100k ! Keep the good stuff coming, you're perfect the way you are 👌