Excellent lesson on Dispensationalism that hit all the right key points in 20 min. It is always a joy to hear people realize that Dispensationalism just does not add up (on so many levels) and dig deeper to understand why. Glory to Almighty God and Lord Jesus Christ!
The Premillennial Harpazo isn't a "new doctrine:" the Rapture of the Body of Christ was taught more than 1,500 years ago. It appears in the writings of Ephraem the Syrian: “For all the saints and the elect of God are gathered PRIOR to the Tribulation that is to come and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.” That is a Premillennial, Baptist, Pretribulation Rapture letter from the sixth century A.D. ascribed to Ephraem Syrus (A.D. 306 to 373). It was from a sermon on “The Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World” and is cited in a footnote in Alexander’s Byzantine Tradition, 1985, p. 210.
I appreciate your perspective on where evangelicalism went wrong. It's concise, hits on the key players and the movement that made us of 'no earthly good'. Hard to advance the kingdom with a pessimistic, escapist eschatology.
I was also brought up in a dispensational church in the mid 60's to the early 90's. I remember when Hal Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth" came out. I remember thinking that the end times scenario that was being taught was so very confusing, but that the preachers must have known what they were talking about because they went to seminary. There was much emphasis on the "premillennial rapture" and the "great tribulation" (that, of course, was imminent - in the 70's and 80's). Little did I know then, that dispensationalism was not Biblical and had no exegetical support. I'm so thankful that sound, exegetical teaching on eschatology has helped me see the errors in the dispensational eschatology.
Unfortunately, most Evangelical Christians are dispensationalists whether they could articulate it or not. I think that is slowly changing, and I pray it accelerates.
The early Church from the 1st to 3rd century were premillennialists. The issue is that when Catholicism started to rise in the FOURTH century alongside it came the rise of amillennialism. Papias (c. 60-130 AD), Polycarp (c. 69-155 AD), St. Justin Martyr (100-165 AD), St. Irenaeus (c. 130-202 AD), St. Hippolytus (c. 170-235 AD), Tertullian (c. 155-240 AD), St. Lactantius (c. 250-325 AD), St. Victorinus (c. 280 AD), St. Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 313-386 AD), were premillennialists. Papias of Hierapolis (60-130 AD), a disciple of the Apostle John, Justin Martyr (100-165 AD), Irenaeus of Lyons (130-202 AD), Tertullian (155-240 AD) Hippolytus of Rome (170-235 AD), Lactantius (c. 250-325 AD), and Victorinus of Pettau (280 AD) explicitly believed in a literal future 1000-year reign of Christ. Papias: “There will be a period of some thousand years after the resurrection of the dead, and the kingdom of Christ will be set up in material form on this very earth.” Polycarp: “Polycarp…who was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna, by apostles in Asia…always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles.” (Polycarp discipled Irenaeus) Justin Martyr: “But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged.” Irenaeus: “For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded...This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come. For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things were completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year...For the righteous shall reign in the earth, until the end of the thousand years, when the world shall be brought to its consummation.” Tertullian: “But we do confess that a kingdom is promised us upon the earth, although before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be after their resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem…” Hippolytus of Rome: “And 6,000 years must needs be accomplished, in order that the Sabbath may come, the rest, the holy day on which God rested from all His works…For the Sabbath is the type and emblem of the future kingdom of the saints.” Lactantius: “But when He shall have destroyed injustice, and shall have restored the just to life, He will be conversant among men for a thousand years, and will rule them with most just command.” Victorinus of Pettau: “The true Sabbath will be in the seventh millenary of years, when Christ with His elect shall reign.” Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 313-386 AD): “For we shall reign with Christ a thousand years; we and the heavenly Jerusalem, after which we shall be taken up.”
Amillennialism was just as prominent as Premillennialism throughout the early church. It wasn't Roman Catholicism that helped Amillennialism to dominate, but Augustine's influence of this truth.
May I suggest reading the Bible and searching for what scriptures say on the subject? This was intellectualism at its worst. To suggest Darby came up with pre-millenialism and a pre trib rapture eschatology is to be in total denial (or lack of knowledge) of scripture and the teachings of the early church fathers.
For the life of me, I will never understand how seemingly learned individuals can still perpetuate the lie that Dispensationalism did not exist until Darby. For those individuals, I recommend the following books: "Dispensationalism Before Darby," by William C. Watson "Ancient Dispensational Truth," by James C. Morris This lie that Dispensationalism did not exist before Darby is EASILY debunked.
@@mikedvirgilio1960 seriously, I've been waiting for an explanation like that for months, I'm recovering from being a Dispensationalist for almost 50 years, not realizing where the roots of the rotting tree came from. It's both embarrassing and humbling, but I'm completely stoked about being freed from that system. I've sent it to a few relatives who are themselves just starting to wake up.
Hello all, I guess I’m here to throw cold water on all the allegorical arguments I see. My name is Hal Bachman, and I’m working on a 2.5 year thesis focusing on the first three centuries of theology as well as end times. While the patristic church fathers were not Dispensationalist, they were very close. Iranaeus stated that his opponents were ignorant because they did not understand the “dispensations” that God has divinely placed throughout the ages. Eusebius, the father of church history was categorically pre-trib. To somewhere around 95%, the vast majority of patristic fathers were outspokenly LITERAL in their eschatology. The two dissenters were Origen and Jerome. A later church father stated that Origen’s works had clearly been tampered with. As for Jerome, he “published” a redacted version of Victorinus’s Revelation commentary that removed all the literal comments. As a scholar of this time, I am telling that there is no way this allegorical Revelation commentary is legitimate. Jerome stood head and shoulders above another scholars of the day. To say that his “scholarly” redaction was simply removing about 6-7 paragraphs and replacing them with briefer fluff does not fly. Jerome had the same spirit as Luther, and regularly hammered and insulted his opponents and displayed very intricate knowledge of the Scriptures. All to say, the literal view was the FIRST view of Christianity for three centuries until Rome took over. JND merely rediscovered what Papias, Irenaeus, Victorinus, Tertullian, and a large list of other patristic church fathers has written 1500 years before he was born. Pick up a history book. Love, Hal
The reason that people turned away from Amil and Postmil views is because Jesus' own words make these positions Biblically untenable. In Matthew 19:28 and 25:31-34, Jesus declares that He will assume His glorious Davidic throne and reign over Israel IN THE REGENERATION - this takes place at the time of His bodily second coming when He comes in glory and with all of the angels with Him, at the time of the sheep and the goats judgment when He will judge the nations of the earth, separating believers from unbelievers, AND NOT BEFORE (Cf. Luke 1:32-33, 2 Samuel 7:12-13, 17, Isaiah 9:7, Revelation 3:21). This truth alone makes amillennialism and postmillennialism impossible since both of these positions assert that Jesus is NOW reigning from the Davidic throne in His millennial kingdom in this age, and of course, according to Jesus' own words, He isn't. Not yet.
I posted a comment on this already from a different login and I see it got deleted some how, but I think it was not on purpose, so I will post it again and hope that it stays up time. Thank you for this video; I want to make one correction at the beginning of your video, in your comment on when the anti-Christa will appear and the rapture. While you are right that these predictions have been going on for a while, they predate the midpoint of the 19th century. This thought has been going on since the foundation of the Church. For example, in the book Discovering Dispensationalism, we read that Cyril of Alexandria (c. 376-444) believed that the Jews would soon return to Jerusalem in these last days and be converted by the preaching of Elijah. He also expected the tribulation to commence before Christ's second coming, occurring "unexpectedly, and with no man knowing it, at the end of the world…as it was in the days of Noah and Lot…." Clearly, Cyril had in mind the event commonly understood today as "the rapture ": "[H]e that is good will be taken, and he that is not so will be left. He will send His angels, and they shall choose the righteous from among the sinners, and bring them near unto Him: but those others they will be left on earth, as doomed to torment and condemned to punishment by fire." Though space limits much more that can be said regarding Cyril, it is noteworthy that he believed and taught that some will be taken, while others will be left behind on earth. Indeed, the escape of the righteous into heaven and torment for those left behind is a common theme throughout church history-now considered a staple belief within dispensational thought. (1) This line of thought continued into "the Late Antiquity (5th-9th) and Late Medieval (10th-15th) centuries. Proto-dispensational elements found in these periods include: sacred history being divided into periods in which God deals with humanity in different ways; a literal interpretation of Scripture-especially of prophetic passages-rather than the spiritualizing of them; belief in a literal future Antichrist; a literal restoration of God's earthly people to their own land; a literal rapture of God's heavenly people; a literal period of tribulation immediately preceding Christ's return; and, a literal millennium with Christ ruling on earth with His saints." (2) There are many others, but Church history has plenty of examples of people who misjudged the timing of the AC and the Rapture. Still, thank you for putting time into this video; it was a good watch. References (1) Marsh, Cory. Discovering Dispensationalism: Tracing the Development of Dispensational Thought From the First to the Twenty-First Century (p. 147). Kindle Edition. (2) Marsh, Cory. Discovering Dispensationalism: Tracing the Development of Dispensational Thought From the First to the Twenty-First Century (p. 146). Kindle Edition.
In Noah's day, "who was taken and who was left"? The evil people were taken (died), and Noah and his family were left on the earth to fill the earth. God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth." Genesis 9:1 This is the same command for Adam and Eve. God commanded His people to fill the earth and all creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. Romans 8:19. Why would he destroy the earth when He has clearly stated in Genesis the plans for His people and this earth.
@@peggymiller2678 Enoch was taken, Noah was left, and the wicked were washed away. The earth was filled with violence and wickedness; only Noah and his family were righteous before the Lord on the earth after the taking way of Enoch, so God reset the world and its population. But thank you for the thought experience. God bless.
Sir, that was not my purpose. When I embraced postmillennialism in August 2022, much to my surprise, I found out the case for it was entirely exegetical. It comes straight from Scripture. I'm happy to suggest some books that do that much better than I can.
@ I can tell you’re a smart dude. Way smarter than me. But I’m not interested in what so and so says about this or that when it comes to the clear teaching that can be found in the Bible. You might not think you’re a dispensationalist but you are. We are no longer under the law of Moses but are under the grace of Jesus Christ. Before the cross and after the cross are two very different periods God has chosen to “dispense” his knowledge,love, grace in a much different way than before the cross. Now the question is this. Is God done with Israel? If you say yes! You’re as wrong as rain on your wedding day. But if God still has plans for the Jew to rule and reign on this earth with Isreal being the head of nations and Christ as the King, then you must proclaim a dispensationalism has it right.
As you proceed to speak your own opinion without any scriptural references and as usual the good ol' "is God done with the Jews?" as if it was EVER about the Jews (Hint: it was NEVER about the Jews but the "Seed" Jesus Christ).
Mike, Thank you for the deep history and commentary. This was packed with meaning in history and relevant for today. Is there an on line discussion of these ideas somewhere? In my 25 year study of eschatology, been thru all the frames, I have booked it down to 3 questions that drive the -isms. - What and when is the kingdom of God? - Who is Israel? - What about the Roman Catholic Church?
Proper understanding of ‘Israel’ is key. Dispy has lead to unchecked Zionism which has cost the world (and especially the United States) dearly As a note, I see (at least) these definitions for Israel : A man, A family, The 12 tribes (an ethnicity), a land, a state (government) and a segment within the ethnicity. Confusing Israel (and / with the Church) has lead to much anguish and loss. And so much for their ‘literally hermeneutic …
Premillennialism is not exclusive to dispensationalism, although the dispensationalists do characterize the millennium in an unscriptural way. Dispensational eschatology is, in large part, a popular myth built upon an irrational interpretation of scripture (starting with a distortion of Daniel 9 in particular). However, a premillennial return of Christ is, itself, entirely scriptural. One cannot come away from reading Revelation with any other conclusion: In Revelation 5:10, the 24 elders, which figuratively represent the prayers and expectations of the saints who, at that point in the narrative have not yet been, but will be, gathered by Christ at his arrival which coincides with the start of the outpouring of the wrath of God in 16:1, declare that they as priests and kings will reign on the earth. In Revelation 20:4, those, at which point in the narrative, having been resurrected by Christ at his second coming and described as being both those having endured in their faith unto death as well as those having endured _until the conclusion of the tribulation_ without having worshipped the beast or his image or taken the mark, are said to thereafter live and reign with Christ a thousand years. Clearly then, these saints, _after they are gathered by Christ at his second coming_ , will reign with Christ on earth during the stated 1,000 years.
To label Dispensationalism are an eschatological framework greatly belies it’s impact in arguably more important aspects including the position / role of Israel and the understanding of Covenants. I must believe that you merely neglected to mention it but this is quite important in my opinion The incorrect understanding of how God deals with his Church has lead to, among other things, rampant Zionism which has cost American dearly. Much less a gross misrepresentation of how God deals with his creation
Agreed. This is the bigger point. That the "Church" age is just a dash. A second thought. It is really all about Israel still. And its the duty of the Church to sort of prop up Israel. It hinges on prophecy though. Preterist stuff.
Thanks for this video. Very informative and helpful. I think what might be great to do as a follow up to this video is to give a brief walkthrough of the books you note at the end. Highlighting helpful takeaways. I am still a dispensationalist. I guess i consider that some influences in the 1800s and 1900s could also be considered potential elements (not in entirety but at least potentially in part) that also might be weigh-ins to what bring perhaps some level of clarity too along the way. I don't continue to subscribe to dispensationalism primarily because of evangelical views, as I have seen much to be wanting in that mix. But rather, I do find it interesting that on the wings of dispensationalism in the 1800s we arrive in the 1900s with 2 world wars...both effecting Israel. In WW1, the removal of the Ottoman Empire hold over Israeli land. And WW2, brought a time readied for a land for Israel. Which makes a providential and historical weigh-in on dispensationalism that transcends what mere evangelicalism believes or does not believe. In this way, Isreal's presence suggests an actual living/breathing potential of a people to become a hermeneutic themselves in the 21st century. Something providential beyond our mere opinions. As for Kirk Cameron, I looked into why he changed his views on dispensationalism. He said it was because of Matt 24:40. Kirk said that one will be taken language is about the angel reapers in Rev 14 as per Matt 13 Wheat and Tares parable. Which i believe is a correct view of that area of scripture. But when i consider this, Kirk jumped on the pretrib bandwagon based on a wrong notion of Matt 24:40. And in my opinion, that was the wrong reason to be premil. So its like he is using the same verse, in my opinion, to make two mistakes over. Understanding Matt 24:40 as the reapers does not eliminate pretrib eschatology necessarily. It does demonstrated that evangelicalism uses scriptures inappropriately in places. But i have seen like 15 hours of debate not minding premil to be inaccurate. And I honestly have not seen a better view than premil after carefully considering the counter arguments. I think you bring much helpful research to the table. I agree with your stance that a loser theology is not helpful. And you take on dualism is helpful for sure to consider. Just as a footnote and not as a reason for this comment, I would lean toward Trump likely being Rev 6:2. Not as antichrist, which evangelicalism seems to be stuck on (as the church for 1800 years saw that judgement as a good one). Which if it has any merit, would explain America's role in supercharging protection and advancement of Israel. But it would also kind of explain why some premil views shaped in America might have in some ways a leading edge perhaps in measure of associated disclosure in the age we find our selves potentially in. I have found no premil person who agrees with this take. So i am kind of out on a limb on that one. But to me it does make the most sense of a potentially empowered America in the midst and contrast to so much globalist erosion that has occurred over several decades in America. I guess we will see. But in any event, thanks for this video. Very provocative. Blessings.
Good word. Dispensationalism and pietism has done much to destroy the Church but it is not the root. The root is Soul Liberty which spawned the establishment clause of the First Amendment. It was the rejection of our forefather of the Solemn League and Covenant and its principles for freedom of religion.
I do not think he thinks he was trying to misrepresent dispensationalism; I think he was never given sound teaching on the subject. This is a common theme in A-mil and Post-mill videos on dispensationalism.
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Excellent lesson on Dispensationalism that hit all the right key points in 20 min. It is always a joy to hear people realize that Dispensationalism just does not add up (on so many levels) and dig deeper to understand why. Glory to Almighty God and Lord Jesus Christ!
The Premillennial Harpazo isn't a "new doctrine:" the Rapture of the Body of Christ was taught more than 1,500 years ago. It appears in the writings of Ephraem the Syrian: “For all the saints and the elect of God are gathered PRIOR to the Tribulation that is to come and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.” That is a Premillennial, Baptist, Pretribulation Rapture letter from the sixth century A.D. ascribed to Ephraem Syrus (A.D. 306 to 373). It was from a sermon on “The Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World” and is cited in a footnote in Alexander’s Byzantine Tradition, 1985, p. 210.
Dispensationalism was the biggest gift to faux Israel ever given…
Evidence seems to suggest Zionists were at least partially behind Darby and Scofield. This is world-historic deception.
Splendid work. Blessed be God for it.
I appreciate your perspective on where evangelicalism went wrong. It's concise, hits on the key players and the movement that made us of 'no earthly good'. Hard to advance the kingdom with a pessimistic, escapist eschatology.
Thanks! I appreciate your kind words.
I was also brought up in a dispensational church in the mid 60's to the early 90's. I remember when Hal Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth" came out. I remember thinking that the end times scenario that was being taught was so very confusing, but that the preachers must have known what they were talking about because they went to seminary. There was much emphasis on the "premillennial rapture" and the "great tribulation" (that, of course, was imminent - in the 70's and 80's). Little did I know then, that dispensationalism was not Biblical and had no exegetical support. I'm so thankful that sound, exegetical teaching on eschatology has helped me see the errors in the dispensational eschatology.
Unfortunately, most Evangelical Christians are dispensationalists whether they could articulate it or not. I think that is slowly changing, and I pray it accelerates.
The early Church from the 1st to 3rd century were premillennialists. The issue is that when Catholicism started to rise in the FOURTH century alongside it came the rise of amillennialism. Papias (c. 60-130 AD), Polycarp (c. 69-155 AD), St. Justin Martyr (100-165 AD), St. Irenaeus (c. 130-202 AD), St. Hippolytus (c. 170-235 AD), Tertullian (c. 155-240 AD), St. Lactantius (c. 250-325 AD), St. Victorinus (c. 280 AD), St. Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 313-386 AD), were premillennialists.
Papias of Hierapolis (60-130 AD), a disciple of the Apostle John, Justin Martyr (100-165 AD), Irenaeus of Lyons (130-202 AD), Tertullian (155-240 AD) Hippolytus of Rome (170-235 AD), Lactantius (c. 250-325 AD), and Victorinus of Pettau (280 AD) explicitly believed in a literal future 1000-year reign of Christ.
Papias: “There will be a period of some thousand years after the resurrection of the dead, and the kingdom of Christ will be set up in material form on this very earth.”
Polycarp: “Polycarp…who was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna, by apostles in Asia…always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles.” (Polycarp discipled Irenaeus)
Justin Martyr: “But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged.”
Irenaeus: “For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded...This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come. For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things were completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year...For the righteous shall reign in the earth, until the end of the thousand years, when the world shall be brought to its consummation.”
Tertullian: “But we do confess that a kingdom is promised us upon the earth, although before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be after their resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem…”
Hippolytus of Rome: “And 6,000 years must needs be accomplished, in order that the Sabbath may come, the rest, the holy day on which God rested from all His works…For the Sabbath is the type and emblem of the future kingdom of the saints.”
Lactantius: “But when He shall have destroyed injustice, and shall have restored the just to life, He will be conversant among men for a thousand years, and will rule them with most just command.”
Victorinus of Pettau: “The true Sabbath will be in the seventh millenary of years, when Christ with His elect shall reign.”
Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 313-386 AD): “For we shall reign with Christ a thousand years; we and the heavenly Jerusalem, after which we shall be taken up.”
But not Dispensational
@@Teddyhenrywilson how do you figure? I’ve been trying to refute this historical claim ..
Amillennialism was just as prominent as Premillennialism throughout the early church. It wasn't Roman Catholicism that helped Amillennialism to dominate, but Augustine's influence of this truth.
Looks like you did a complete 180 from the Tobias episode. Good job.
May I suggest reading the Bible and searching for what scriptures say on the subject? This was intellectualism at its worst. To suggest Darby came up with pre-millenialism and a pre trib rapture eschatology is to be in total denial (or lack of knowledge) of scripture and the teachings of the early church fathers.
Do you think Jesus was a false prophet?
Awesome! This video has earned a new subscriber!
Ken Gentry has done great work in this area too! 🔥
I just finished before Jerusalem Fell. I'm now convinced of a pre-70AD writing of Revelation.
He recently released ‘The Divorce of Israel’, his Magnus opus in two volumes
By the grace of God, Dispensationalism will be eradicated from the Kingdom of God.
If I must attach a label, i am an amillennialist.
431AD at the council of Ephesus the catholic church outlawed pretribulation rapture doctrine
Excellent! My husband and I came to the understanding of how dispensationalism is not Biblical after reading the Bible completely.
Funny how common sense it is yet we all have to discover this 😅
Excellent! My wife and I came to the understanding of how dispensationalism is Biblical after reading the Bible completely.
That is how I came to reject dispensationalism. Reading scripture CHRONOLOGICALLY in it’s entirety is the death of dispensationalism.
What's the correct chronological order? @@matthewselge2997
Peggy that is exactly when I realized that dispensationalism is a false doctrine. It's too bad more people don't read the word of God.
For the life of me, I will never understand how seemingly learned individuals can still perpetuate the lie that Dispensationalism did not exist until Darby. For those individuals, I recommend the following books:
"Dispensationalism Before Darby," by William C. Watson
"Ancient Dispensational Truth," by James C. Morris
This lie that Dispensationalism did not exist before Darby is EASILY debunked.
This is sooooo good, what a great history lesson!
Thank you!
@@mikedvirgilio1960 seriously, I've been waiting for an explanation like that for months, I'm recovering from being a Dispensationalist for almost 50 years, not realizing where the roots of the rotting tree came from. It's both embarrassing and humbling, but I'm completely stoked about being freed from that system. I've sent it to a few relatives who are themselves just starting to wake up.
Have you previously dealt with the nefarious Jesuit promotion of Protestant pietism through David VanDrunen's Two-Kingdom nonsense?
Wrong
Hello all, I guess I’m here to throw cold water on all the allegorical arguments I see. My name is Hal Bachman, and I’m working on a 2.5 year thesis focusing on the first three centuries of theology as well as end times. While the patristic church fathers were not Dispensationalist, they were very close. Iranaeus stated that his opponents were ignorant because they did not understand the “dispensations” that God has divinely placed throughout the ages. Eusebius, the father of church history was categorically pre-trib. To somewhere around 95%, the vast majority of patristic fathers were outspokenly LITERAL in their eschatology. The two dissenters were Origen and Jerome. A later church father stated that Origen’s works had clearly been tampered with. As for Jerome, he “published” a redacted version of Victorinus’s Revelation commentary that removed all the literal comments. As a scholar of this time, I am telling that there is no way this allegorical Revelation commentary is legitimate. Jerome stood head and shoulders above another scholars of the day. To say that his “scholarly” redaction was simply removing about 6-7 paragraphs and replacing them with briefer fluff does not fly. Jerome had the same spirit as Luther, and regularly hammered and insulted his opponents and displayed very intricate knowledge of the Scriptures. All to say, the literal view was the FIRST view of Christianity for three centuries until Rome took over. JND merely rediscovered what Papias, Irenaeus, Victorinus, Tertullian, and a large list of other patristic church fathers has written 1500 years before he was born. Pick up a history book. Love, Hal
You. Nailed. It. Good job. Would love to read your paper.
Ahhhh. Finally, someone with a perfect eschatology..... said no serious theologian ever.
The reason that people turned away from Amil and Postmil views is because Jesus' own words make these positions Biblically untenable.
In Matthew 19:28 and 25:31-34, Jesus declares that He will assume His glorious Davidic throne and reign over Israel IN THE REGENERATION - this takes place at the time of His bodily second coming when He comes in glory and with all of the angels with Him, at the time of the sheep and the goats judgment when He will judge the nations of the earth, separating believers from unbelievers, AND NOT BEFORE (Cf. Luke 1:32-33, 2 Samuel 7:12-13, 17, Isaiah 9:7, Revelation 3:21).
This truth alone makes amillennialism and postmillennialism impossible since both of these positions assert that Jesus is NOW reigning from the Davidic throne in His millennial kingdom in this age, and of course, according to Jesus' own words, He isn't. Not yet.
I posted a comment on this already from a different login and I see it got deleted some how, but I think it was not on purpose, so I will post it again and hope that it stays up time.
Thank you for this video; I want to make one correction at the beginning of your video, in your comment on when the anti-Christa will appear and the rapture. While you are right that these predictions have been going on for a while, they predate the midpoint of the 19th century.
This thought has been going on since the foundation of the Church. For example, in the book Discovering Dispensationalism, we read that Cyril of Alexandria (c. 376-444) believed that the Jews would soon return to Jerusalem in these last days and be converted by the preaching of Elijah. He also expected the tribulation to commence before Christ's second coming, occurring "unexpectedly, and with no man knowing it, at the end of the world…as it was in the days of Noah and Lot…." Clearly, Cyril had in mind the event commonly understood today as "the rapture ": "[H]e that is good will be taken, and he that is not so will be left. He will send His angels, and they shall choose the righteous from among the sinners, and bring them near unto Him: but those others they will be left on earth, as doomed to torment and condemned to punishment by fire." Though space limits much more that can be said regarding Cyril, it is noteworthy that he believed and taught that some will be taken, while others will be left behind on earth. Indeed, the escape of the righteous into heaven and torment for those left behind is a common theme throughout church history-now considered a staple belief within dispensational thought. (1)
This line of thought continued into "the Late Antiquity (5th-9th) and Late Medieval (10th-15th) centuries. Proto-dispensational elements found in these periods include: sacred history being divided into periods in which God deals with humanity in different ways; a literal interpretation of Scripture-especially of prophetic passages-rather than the spiritualizing of them; belief in a literal future Antichrist; a literal restoration of God's earthly people to their own land; a literal rapture of God's heavenly people; a literal period of tribulation immediately preceding Christ's return; and, a literal millennium with Christ ruling on earth with His saints." (2)
There are many others, but Church history has plenty of examples of people who misjudged the timing of the AC and the Rapture.
Still, thank you for putting time into this video; it was a good watch.
References
(1) Marsh, Cory. Discovering Dispensationalism: Tracing the Development of Dispensational Thought From the First to the Twenty-First Century (p. 147). Kindle Edition.
(2) Marsh, Cory. Discovering Dispensationalism: Tracing the Development of Dispensational Thought From the First to the Twenty-First Century (p. 146). Kindle Edition.
In Noah's day, "who was taken and who was left"? The evil people were taken (died), and Noah and his family were left on the earth to fill the earth. God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth." Genesis 9:1 This is the same command for Adam and Eve. God commanded His people to fill the earth and all creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. Romans 8:19. Why would he destroy the earth when He has clearly stated in Genesis the plans for His people and this earth.
@@peggymiller2678 Enoch was taken, Noah was left, and the wicked were washed away.
The earth was filled with violence and wickedness; only Noah and his family were righteous before the Lord on the earth after the taking way of Enoch, so God reset the world and its population.
But thank you for the thought experience. God bless.
If you’re going to disprove a so-called wrong biblical teaching I would suggest staying in the scripture.
Sir, that was not my purpose. When I embraced postmillennialism in August 2022, much to my surprise, I found out the case for it was entirely exegetical. It comes straight from Scripture. I'm happy to suggest some books that do that much better than I can.
@ I can tell you’re a smart dude. Way smarter than me. But I’m not interested in what so and so says about this or that when it comes to the clear teaching that can be found in the Bible. You might not think you’re a dispensationalist but you are. We are no longer under the law of Moses but are under the grace of Jesus Christ. Before the cross and after the cross are two very different periods God has chosen to “dispense” his knowledge,love, grace in a much different way than before the cross. Now the question is this. Is God done with Israel? If you say yes! You’re as wrong as rain on your wedding day. But if God still has plans for the Jew to rule and reign on this earth with Isreal being the head of nations and Christ as the King, then you must proclaim a dispensationalism has it right.
@@dberg1964Half of what you just said are things so and so said about this or that.
As you proceed to speak your own opinion without any scriptural references and as usual the good ol' "is God done with the Jews?" as if it was EVER about the Jews (Hint: it was NEVER about the Jews but the "Seed" Jesus Christ).
Mike,
Thank you for the deep history and commentary. This was packed with meaning in history and relevant for today.
Is there an on line discussion of these ideas somewhere?
In my 25 year study of eschatology, been thru all the frames, I have booked it down to 3 questions that drive the -isms.
- What and when is the kingdom of God?
- Who is Israel?
- What about the Roman Catholic Church?
What do you mean by "what about the RCC"?
Thank you, sir!
Proper understanding of ‘Israel’ is key. Dispy has lead to unchecked Zionism which has cost the world (and especially the United States) dearly
As a note, I see (at least) these definitions for Israel : A man, A family, The 12 tribes (an ethnicity), a land, a state (government) and a segment within the ethnicity. Confusing Israel (and / with the Church) has lead to much anguish and loss. And so much for their ‘literally hermeneutic …
One sentence summary of the bible: I am God and you are not. Dualism runs deep in Christianity.
Premillennialism is not exclusive to dispensationalism, although the dispensationalists do characterize the millennium in an unscriptural way. Dispensational eschatology is, in large part, a popular myth built upon an irrational interpretation of scripture (starting with a distortion of Daniel 9 in particular). However, a premillennial return of Christ is, itself, entirely scriptural. One cannot come away from reading Revelation with any other conclusion:
In Revelation 5:10, the 24 elders, which figuratively represent the prayers and expectations of the saints who, at that point in the narrative have not yet been, but will be, gathered by Christ at his arrival which coincides with the start of the outpouring of the wrath of God in 16:1, declare that they as priests and kings will reign on the earth.
In Revelation 20:4, those, at which point in the narrative, having been resurrected by Christ at his second coming and described as being both those having endured in their faith unto death as well as those having endured _until the conclusion of the tribulation_ without having worshipped the beast or his image or taken the mark, are said to thereafter live and reign with Christ a thousand years.
Clearly then, these saints, _after they are gathered by Christ at his second coming_ , will reign with Christ on earth during the stated 1,000 years.
To label Dispensationalism are an eschatological framework greatly belies it’s impact in arguably more important aspects including the position / role of Israel and the understanding of Covenants.
I must believe that you merely neglected to mention it but this is quite important in my opinion
The incorrect understanding of how God deals with his Church has lead to, among other things, rampant Zionism which has cost American dearly. Much less a gross misrepresentation of how God deals with his creation
Agreed. This is the bigger point. That the "Church" age is just a dash. A second thought. It is really all about Israel still. And its the duty of the Church to sort of prop up Israel. It hinges on prophecy though. Preterist stuff.
Thanks for this video. Very informative and helpful. I think what might be great to do as a follow up to this video is to give a brief walkthrough of the books you note at the end. Highlighting helpful takeaways. I am still a dispensationalist. I guess i consider that some influences in the 1800s and 1900s could also be considered potential elements (not in entirety but at least potentially in part) that also might be weigh-ins to what bring perhaps some level of clarity too along the way.
I don't continue to subscribe to dispensationalism primarily because of evangelical views, as I have seen much to be wanting in that mix. But rather, I do find it interesting that on the wings of dispensationalism in the 1800s we arrive in the 1900s with 2 world wars...both effecting Israel. In WW1, the removal of the Ottoman Empire hold over Israeli land. And WW2, brought a time readied for a land for Israel. Which makes a providential and historical weigh-in on dispensationalism that transcends what mere evangelicalism believes or does not believe. In this way, Isreal's presence suggests an actual living/breathing potential of a people to become a hermeneutic themselves in the 21st century. Something providential beyond our mere opinions.
As for Kirk Cameron, I looked into why he changed his views on dispensationalism. He said it was because of Matt 24:40. Kirk said that one will be taken language is about the angel reapers in Rev 14 as per Matt 13 Wheat and Tares parable. Which i believe is a correct view of that area of scripture. But when i consider this, Kirk jumped on the pretrib bandwagon based on a wrong notion of Matt 24:40. And in my opinion, that was the wrong reason to be premil. So its like he is using the same verse, in my opinion, to make two mistakes over. Understanding Matt 24:40 as the reapers does not eliminate pretrib eschatology necessarily. It does demonstrated that evangelicalism uses scriptures inappropriately in places.
But i have seen like 15 hours of debate not minding premil to be inaccurate. And I honestly have not seen a better view than premil after carefully considering the counter arguments. I think you bring much helpful research to the table. I agree with your stance that a loser theology is not helpful. And you take on dualism is helpful for sure to consider. Just as a footnote and not as a reason for this comment, I would lean toward Trump likely being Rev 6:2. Not as antichrist, which evangelicalism seems to be stuck on (as the church for 1800 years saw that judgement as a good one). Which if it has any merit, would explain America's role in supercharging protection and advancement of Israel. But it would also kind of explain why some premil views shaped in America might have in some ways a leading edge perhaps in measure of associated disclosure in the age we find our selves potentially in.
I have found no premil person who agrees with this take. So i am kind of out on a limb on that one. But to me it does make the most sense of a potentially empowered America in the midst and contrast to so much globalist erosion that has occurred over several decades in America. I guess we will see. But in any event, thanks for this video. Very provocative. Blessings.
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Cant wait. Darby was a simp
Good word. Dispensationalism and pietism has done much to destroy the Church but it is not the root. The root is Soul Liberty which spawned the establishment clause of the First Amendment. It was the rejection of our forefather of the Solemn League and Covenant and its principles for freedom of religion.
Sad to see such blatant misrepresentation of dispensationalism. 🤦🏼♂️
Can you please elaborate? Thanks.
I do not think he thinks he was trying to misrepresent dispensationalism; I think he was never given sound teaching on the subject. This is a common theme in A-mil and Post-mill videos on dispensationalism.
@@joshuakriese4604 What do you believe is misrepresented? Asking honestly, not trying to be antagonistic.
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Waiting 😊