My personal opinion is that NN DMT is more scary and unpredictable. 5MEO is nearly the same every time more or less and is a lot less uncomfortable and confusing. It's also more spiritual consistently. I'm scared of normal DMT but would do 5MEO with almost no second thought.
I completely agree about the unpredictable nature of NN. Its pretty much infinite unbounded novelty, and thats kinda what makes it such a potent storytelling technology. For me NN when vaped is rarely scary, although when taken as ayahuasca it often is. I personally welcome that as stuff I need to deal with because I view it as a window into our own psyche, and if there is anything within me that I am afraid of then I want to face that. Totally agree on 5MEO being more consistent - you can’t really get much more consistent than everything collapsing into pure unity 🙂
@@AdeptusPsychonautica I Can confirm he is indeed a rare Pokémon 😆 I met him at the Detroit Psychedelic Conference, and he also facilitated when I was at Arkana haha
May I respectfully propose that the best judge of which substance is "better" than any other is the individual that's just compared the two, not Martin, nor anyone else who claims superiority of any substance. Let Martin speak for himself, but not for those whom he hasn't consulted. For Mrs Minty, a cup of tea would be infinitely better than either NN or 5meo DMT. Good to see you back fella!
I totally agree mate. I think the obsession that POWER = VALUE is a complete mistake because as Mrs Minty has so astutely identified, that value can come from anywhere if we just take the time to open our eyes and see it - granted thats a lot easier said than done so some of us need a bit of a kick up the arse 🙂 Good to see you too mate!
I would never speak for Adeptus, but I personally felt like his question was rhetorically simplified on purpose to spark nuance, and did not assume the answer could be ‘yes’ - it’s reminiscent of a discussion show that asks ‘do all religious people think the same?’ Nobody answers ‘yes’, so the question may seem odd to propose it, but when we see the spark caused by the question, it makes more sense overall to propose it
I really agree with what your saying here. I used to be an iboga purist because it is what helped me so much with my addiction issues...ive realized in the last 3 years, after eperiencing 5meo, NN dmt, High dose mushrooms, that they are all different teachers with different perspectives. Its sort of like being well rounded in terms of education. It is surely better to come at a problem seeing through many lenses. Ive noticed some people, especially with 5meo, start to develop a weird ego around the substance; this is of course ironic as most people clame it is the ultimate ego destroyer. Anyway, I think you and I are on the same page which is to enjoy and respect all the plants, medicines, molecules for what they are.
Yeah its hard not to put a particular experience on a pedestal, especially when we feel it has been so beneficial to us, but I think its always helpful to remember that just as we “discovered” that experience, there are others out there waiting to be discovered.
There's a reason why Buddhists usually take decades to make serious progress into enlightenment. The disciplines, techniques, and awareness of ego and desires and senses are the unassisted path to manual ego death. Those of us taking these medicines are unlocking that same door with whatever skills and discipline that we happen to bring into the psychedelic experience. Come back to the body and the ego on the come down and the old systems reassert themselves regardless of our new understanding. That's when ego can blow up into this big headed guru/messiah complex.
@@billymahonyy Very much so. It shouldn't stop anyone from exploring, but there are definitely pockets of madness that can be stumbled into during and after a trip. Some of them are as simple as a shift in perspective. And a bit of mindful detachment can be all it takes to reorient ourselves back to sanity.
I appreciate your comments in this video. I have read one or two of Martin's books and seen many interviews with him. Like you, I agree with much of what he relates in the context of his discussions, but I always felt that he was being too dismissive of DMT. Of course, there is much that one could say on the topic of comparing the two, but you summarized the salient points of the comparison very well in a relatively short video. As you suggest, DMT and 5 MEO are complementary. It is not a matter of which is better than the other. Well done. Kudos.
I’ve had 2 accidental ego dissolution experiences on DMT. It wasn’t life changing, in fact it was strange to experience an alternate experience to being one’s self. It gave me a new perspective but afterwards I was myself again.
Thanks mate! Alas I can't take credit for the shirt as it comes from my fellow psychonaut RUclipsr - Adventures Through The Mind. Here is a link if you want to grab one - www.jameswjesso.com/product/attmind-podcast-short-sleeve-t-shirt/
@@AdeptusPsychonautica 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣 yes for sure! Really wished you didn't have to work a regular job for you are a natural speaker and your charisma is off the charts! YOU DESERVE EVERYTHING GREAT COMING YOUR WAY🌹🙌🙌🙌.
I'm glad someone else views killing the ego with skepticism. Yes the ego can drive us to do "bad" things due to it being itself as separate, but it also creates unique experiences along with chances to do good things with it. If we're all one and the ego is so terrible why create it to begin with? I think we should be looking for ways to use the ego during these trips instead of killing it.
I like the way "spiritual teacher" Roger Castillo pragmatically puts it: The human being IS an ego. The part of us that CAN "die" permanently (even when sober) and is often referred to as the "ego" is a belief in personal doership: a psychological narrative of resistance to circumstance that manifests as 1. guilt, 2. blame, 3. pride, 4. worry/anxiety, and 5. expectation/attachment to outcomes. A deeply ingrained belief that pleasant circumstance is what makes us happy and that painful circumstance is a personal attack on who we are.
I think your point about Ego Death is excellent. It’s a gift to be able to truly love yourself, love others around you and feel a connection with the fabric of this eternal tapestry that surrounds us. We are the Universe hearing itself, seeing itself, feeling itself and knowing itself. We are born to experience this consciousness from this perspective…for whatever reason…and while there’s nothing wrong with the transient experience of Ego Death itself (there is something to be learned from every experience) it just doesn’t seem right or fair to try permanently divorcing our consciousness from ourselves while still living and breathing. If life has traumatized someone to the point that they believe the only solution is to forever separate consciousness from the person and self within, it’s time to address the root of whatever pain may have impelled us to feel that way. Forge your soul and face the darkest of nights, don’t try to dissolve yourself into it without a fight. Just my opinion- all due respect towards anyone else who may feel differently.
From my experience the ego is only trapped energy in the body ( what we call negative emotions). it is not in the head, mind only reacts with thought to the tensions that are in the body. From my psychedelic experience i saw that if you have developed a good sensibility to the body the substance shows you the pain and the contractions that are in the body. From my dmt experience i saw zero images but i felt a lot of pain that went away only when i relaxed my body and stop resisting. This is why i think that Martin says that these images only preserves the ego. What i'm seeing is that liberation is a physical change e relaxation. If you are thinking you are resisting the trapped energy that cause all the problem ( basically is fear) . thank you for your job.
Agreed, have done both extensively, but more (5-meo-DMT) and DMT is better simply because it's have a much lower body load and it's just more interesting and less hedonistic.
Many different tools and experiences with many different applications which all gravitate towards potential users to provide the perfect lesson for each individual at the perfect time.
i would challenge the idea that 100mg of nn dmt isn't as powerful as 10 mg 5-meo. With 20-40mg dmt and a glass vapor genie I can have a full on breakthrough that completely shatters my reality. At 100mg the experience, as it often is, becomes indescribable.
The dmt experience is absolutely insane regardless of the type of dmt and is a lot to handle regardless of the type that you’re consuming I personally don’t understand why someone would want to label one better over the other
Gesture of good will thoroughly received. Thanks, mate 😇 Also, your welcome for the shirt. Glad you like it! Also also, excellent video. I love Martin’s work, and he can be pretty totalitarian (did I use that term correctly?) with respect to the ego and reality. Which I appreciate because it offers a clear reference for debate and discussion. Although, I personally lean towards ambivalence on these matters, because I don’t really know (even though I have felt strongly about what I think I know at times). Again, great video. I’m honoured to have made an indirect quasi-cameo!
Great conversation. I love both of these substances and would not want to have to choose between them. I wonder if mystical experiences only become mystical once they become part of the dual narrative, anyway. It seems like something can only be defined as mystical from the non-dual perspective. Thai food is only Thai food outside of Thailand. In Thailand it's just food, after all. Either way, I find such benefit in the non-dual experience provided by 5-meo, but also within the exploration of the egoic layers that surround that non-dual gooey center. Both explorations are so beneficial, and benefit each other. Ah, paradox.
I don't think its a paradox at all - its actually a perfect example that there are many facets of experience possible, and that there is value to be had in each. One could easily imagine a substance which instantly divides your consciousness into two, perhaps one masculine and one feminine but neither the other - it would be the ultimate dual experience 🙂 Again, that would be another facet, no more or less true than any other. Perhaps another substance might perfectly subdivide you into Hindu deities... the list goes on, no paradox, simply experiences which we as human beings would ultimately have to process.
@@AdeptusPsychonautica You are right, maybe it's more complimentary than paradoxical. That said, I may be one the only people who seems to find the nn experience to be very non-dual sometimes. I often seem to lose all contact with my egoic self on nn.
Bro your videos are amazing and I need to ask WHAT IS THAT MUSIC IN YOUR INTRO?? I listen with HD headphones and it nearly blows me off my seat every time it drops! Hell that track is a DMT experience itself 😱
Very matured perspective on the topic, and a really interesting debate. I would like to know your perspective on Salvia, specially in comparison with NN DMT and 5 MeO DMT.
Always appreciate your channel mate. Some of the most honest, balanced and informative content in a field that is often filled with hype, hyperbole, dogmatism and charlatans. Keep up the good work.
I subscribed to your channel loong ago when you had few subs. It’s been a while since I’ve watched one of your videos, and man it’s a pleasure to be back.
In my personal experience, 5-Meo DMT is merely the "secular" version of NnDMT, simply because 5-Meo DMT is essentially almost an identical experience minus nearly ALL visuals. It is as if some clone of your consciousness is sent off to actually experience the DMT realm, but you who smoked the 5-Meo DMT just experience a sleep-like blackout. This is going to be extremely powerful as the bridge offered to those who are traumatized by a previous, harsh psychedelic experience, or those who are afraid of what they will end up seeing and experiencing on NnDMT. It simply has to be admitted, that NnDMT is WAY too visual and daunting an experience that can shellshock most people. Perhaps as a clinical tool to be made available to a great many people including the particularly timid and cautious, 5-Meo DMT is going to be the amazing surrogate.
We spoke with a Peruvian shaman who came here to lead two ceremonies: he told us that the toad messes you up in such a way that you need a couple of months of Ayahuasca treatment in order to get rid of all the issues. He didn't tell us what those issues were, though. I had an ego death, or a non dual experience, under the influence of Ayahuasca and it's certainlainly one of the most rewarding experiences ever. It literally changed my life. So, you can have an ego death even with "usual" DMT. That said, I have the impression that enthusiasts of 5-MeO-DMT are looking for the immense sense of love towards everything and everybody and the well being you experience in the aftermaths. That looks to me more like a quick fix or even a way to escape reality for a little while, whereas DMT quite literally pushes you to work on yourself in your everyday's life to maintaining the benefits of the experience and for longer lasting results.
I have also had an ego death and unitive experience on ayahuasca, so there is certainly some overlap between these two substances. Its interesting you mention about 5 MEO DMT being more of an escape because my wife who has addiction problems mentioned something similar. She said that it was the ultimate escape because it felt like you were dead and so free from all of the issues of life, and she described that freedom as complete bliss. Now that raises some questions about whether or not that is a healthy mentality to have. On the one hand if it brings about some sense of relief then its hard to argue against, but the language used to equate DEAD with RELIEF is quite disconcerting.
I totally agree with you on all points. I'd like to add that one property of DMT that makes it a superior tool compared to 5-MeO, is that you can take it orally with iMAO thus extending the experience for hours. With 5-MeO that can lead to fatal consequences. Not to mention that 5-MeO taken in high doses can cause respiratory depression, and DMT is much safer.
Blimey ... I've been doing some research and feeling ready to try my first dmt trip... I've done lots of different stuff across my 20's and 30's mainly clubbing stuff 😉, but at 43 now I'm looking for something spiritual as I become more aware of my mortality ... two of my friends have tried it and had amazing experiences .... the respiratory depression has pricked my focus up though 😮😮
What you’ve said is interesting (you’ve seriously drilled into the subject ~ massive respect to you!) … as a person who’s embraced 80+ psilocybin experiences… (just 2 n,n DMT experiences… no MAO’s… but it was like flying through Tokyo with my face! Haha) …with some well designed MAO-DMT combo… it would be better metabolised. I starting with 3.5gms and the next day… a “ego introduction” experience. w/7gms of albino PE… I couldn’t see my toes (they looked webbed… as did my fingers) I coiled into a pre natal state (and fetal position)… and was taken into time periods of life and then asked the questions or was dialoguing with intergalactic travel… and it told me as human bodies a cross celestial’trip’ would not be available… I do wonder what this meant? It did infer that it’s not a limitation… more just a practical question If you are ever visiting Vancouver, BC… it would be fun to see your talk or introduce you to Whistler and some profoundly beautiful spots that you’d appreciate
What a fascinating discussion, Rob. I can see Martin's perspective, albeit quite an absolutist stance and his could be seen as the presentation of ultimates ."My dog's bigger than your dog". I know and love Martin, so it ought to pointed out that he is a man with both feet on the ground, a great deal if the time, with a healthy family life and numerous musical and artistic projects ongoing. I myself respect each compound for it's unique magik. And I too share your appreciation for the rich tapestry that is life within this multidimensional, dualistic paradigmn that we coexist within. Yes, all the cards in the deck of subjective experinces are of immense value. So I applaud your insights, as well. The late great James Orac felt strongly that nn-DMT targeted the pinnacle of the kaleidoscopic realm of the third eye and the infinite variation of fractally reflections. Ancient knowledge and geometric languages spoken in schintslating sonic vibrations and glorious colors. Whereas he was convinced that 5-MeO dissolved the subjective witness and triggered full activation of the crown region. Basically, by stacking them as ascending expansions of psychic energy blooming, he likewise places the Samadhi states of the nondual experience, above those of the highly textural dualistic visionary mythos of the "psychedelic experience". This is idehtical to the classuc Yogic philosophy of the ascension of the kundalini arising upwards, geyser-like waves of kenetic energy wriggling up the spinal axis of the subjective voyager. Sahaja Samadhi retains footing within the dynamic of subjectivity. One interphases with the Oneness and travels throughout all of the diversity within the web of life. Nirvikalpa Samadhi draws the attention of the person into dissolution of self-consciousness. So much so, that an enlightenment them occurs in which the individual evaporates into the totality. From my small understanding, the ancient Rishis didn't feel that Sahaja Samadhi was the equal of Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Again, another absolutist conception. I have come to savor the full variety of human evolution in bloom. Arriving to a place where the mystical and the seemingly mundane are in complete sinc (whether sober or dosed). It's really all about the proper balance, eh? :)
Thanks Jon, if you would like to hear more conversation between Martin and I then I appeared on his podcast a few weeks after this and we had a really good chat - www.podomatic.com/podcasts/entheogenic/episodes/2022-04-04T10_00_00-07_00 I totally agree that 5 MEO and NN DMT are such vastly different experiences that the idea of "better" seems almost like the wrong approach. Personally I love both 🙂
Yes it is! Well I’ve done Bufo once and DMT many times & I love both so much, but I do feel the Bufo experience and the long lasting therapeutic effects far out strip the DMT experience, it makes DMT seem like child’s play in comparison
Having done both on many occasions, in terms of what you get out of it I think it comes down to what you do WITH the experience rather than the experience itself. Often the most profound insights are very simple without necessarily needing the ego to be dissolved.
I was too caught up in all the stories. My story, the worlds stories, everybody's stories and dramas. Done ayahuasca/DMT plenty times and got only more caught up in all the stories and selfdrama. All the stories we keep telling ourselves only prevents us in having a goodloving relationship with eachother. It wasnt untill 5MeO I finally experienced freedom from all the stories I, We've been told and keep telling ourselves. The complete deconstruction and all that remains is LOVE. This has helped me greatly and now Im able to have a healthy distance from all the stories and not be so attached to them. It's what brought me the most healing, ever greatful.
@Eddie Hitler It's commonly referred to as "Bufo" because the natural source of 5-MeO-DMT is the toad Bufo alvarius. Anyway, have you had any experience with bufotenine? Would love to hear about its effects.
I haven't tried any of these, but of what I've heard, 5Meo does seem more profound. NN-DMT sounds like an incredible, spectacular show with fireworks, while 5MEO sounds like a nirvana, dissolving into infinity. It's definitely great to experience both and NN-Dmt seems more suitable for more often usage. And surely NN can cause some super profound experiences, like the high dose described by Patricio Dominguez for example. Yet, the depth of the experiences sounds incomparable between the 2.
5-MEO-DMT is completely different. It still has a classic tryptamine feel, but it's way less visual. I just got back from Mexico and was with a native Shaman the whole time I was down there and got to smoke 5 MEO from Sonoran Desert toads a couple of times on the beach in Cabo. It was absolutely amazing. He would sing these wild chants every time I would do it and the only way I can describe it is it feels like Home
Sabnock here (from over at reddit), we may not see eye to eye on Ayahuasca when it comes to solo vs tradition, but i completely agree with everything you've said in this video. Oh, and no hard feelings mate.
So you agree that people should have an open mind to ALL approaches and not be entrenched in a certain mindset as if it applies to EVERYONE? Dude, if you had come to that conclusion sooner you could have saved yourself a whole lot of ranting and name calling on reddit 😀 Sure no hard feelings from my side chief.
@@AdeptusPsychonautica - Well, technically i've been of that opinion the whole time, the only thing i was saying, in general and not just towards you, was that the solo route is a perfectly valid route for people to go and that i embrace all routes as equally valid, i just think the traditional stuff is a little overblown or can even be a bit ensnaring and people get kinda hardheaded about that being the only "proper" way to go about working with Aya, though i'm sure all routes probably have their exaggerations. Idk i just get tired of the traditional community finding some excuse or reason as to why solo Aya can't work very well, and sure it's not a path for the less determined, i do think they'd be better suited to the traditional side of things, but i do think we should give people more credit and encouragement, as well as education, so that if they're going to go about such things on their own, they can do so safely and rightly. And i think people deserve to know that if gone about more rightly, solo Aya can be quite beneficial and in some cases even more beneficial to one's day to day life than going to the jungle for a few weeks and coming back to the day to day, i think regular practice and work with the medicine, as well as with oneself, is overall a better way to go, which doesn't really say anything about the traditional stuff because i'm sure that route can be quite beneficial and there's tons to learn from all this stuff imo, so no stone unturned as they say, explore, study, learn.
@@Sabnock1990 I would pretty much agree with all of that, but what you were actually saying in that thread, which was (I quote) that traditional approaches are BS, a rip-off, and that anyone who can’t get the healing they need from the solo route is “doing it wrong”, and that anyone who disagreed with you was narrow minded. Lets just say it was a far cry from the balanced approach you outline above 🙂
@@AdeptusPsychonautica- Yeah i definitely could've worded that a bit better. I do still think it's a bit of a rip off though considering what all people can get from Aya on their own/in general, and it's not that i think tradition is bullshit but rather people's attitudes surrounding it acting as if it's the only proper way to go about things, that's what i think is bullshit, not the traditions themselves. But yes, if done rightly on one's own, Aya will work, people can have amazing and highly beneficial experiences, and based on what i've seen from some folks online, people do sometimes do things wrong at home, they either haven't brewed it properly or they didn't use the right dosages or they make stupid smoothies in order to consume the DMT, so i'd say those people are doing it wrong and it's no wonder they aren't getting good results. I'm not doubting the influence of tradition and the ceremony and the shaman and icaros and all that, and i hope to experience that someday, but when done rightly, yes, it will work amazingly at home. And again, what i see as narrow mindedness is being stuck in one view of things and thinking anything outside of that is wrong or disrespectful or what not, which again, the traditionalists do seem a bit hardheaded and narrow minded, they don't have to compromise their way of doing things in order to accept/acknowledge/embrace that there are other ways to do things. It's not at all about "my way or the highway", quite the contrary, most Aya traditionalists, it seems, have that kind of attitude/perspective, the traditional way or the highway, which is weird considering Aya is used differently by many groups, shamans, tribes, regions and for different purposes. That's why i said people are narrow minded, because they just don't accept that people can get the benefits of Aya without having to fork over a few grand for a few days worth of ceremonies. What about you though? Do you agree that there's benefit in regular practice/work with Aya compared to people flying to the jungle for a few weeks and having a few ceremonies and then going back home? Don't you think people could get more benefit from regular practice, either on their own or under the care of a professional whether traditional or not? And, which do you think can be more beneficial for one's day to day, a once in a blue moon excursion or regular practice/work with Aya? I fall into the regular practice category personally, i think at least to a certain extent, people have a lot to learn and can learn a lot and have better results in their day to day, but i think it can be more beneficial on your own or to go to a place locally, and work with it regularly vs having a few experiences and thinking that's that. Ya know?
My position on these matters is on full display across this channel - I straddle both traditional and DIY at home approaches, and I find both to be valid with their own pros and cons. I would completely agree that the "traditional only" approach is often overblown, but be careful not to fall into that same mentality just from the opposite side. I think the simple analogy here is music. I love listening to music on my hi-fi system at home - I get IMMENSE joy from this. In no way does that completely negate the thrill of seeing a band live, its a completely different experience. Now one could argue that its just the same music, and that travelling to see a band live is a chore, and that live tickets cost money so its a "rip off", and I would reply that they are entitled to their personal preference for how they consume music, but the idea that just because that is THEIR preference means there is no value for anyone else is clearly nonsense. I would also inform them that because simply because X costs more than Y does not mean it is a "rip off", particularly if X is an entirely different product to Y. After all the logistics of transporting a band, all their equipment, all their staff, whatever those people eat, paying for the venue, and then making some kind of living wage, all this stacks up. I would hope that any rational person would consider such logical factors before making such defamatory statements. So to bring it back to ayahuasca (although realistically I think we are probably talking about anahuasca or pharmahuasca) - I have zero problem with someone doing it at home, and have done it many times myself. I also think there absolutely are situations where I WOULD NOT recommend that someone do it at home alone, and that they would be receive greater benefit by working within a certain framework (possibly traditional but not necessarily) and being guided through a long term process. As an example if we took a combat veteran with severe PTSD then I would be extremely sceptical that the results of them drinking ayahuasca alone in their bedroom would match those from spending 2 weeks at a retreat center, being guided through a recovery program, receiving 24/7 therapy, in a serene location entirely staffed by people devoted their well-being. Surely this is not particularly controversial? So sure, practice as much as suits you at home - you will never hear any criticism from me on that front. And if the impulse takes you to venture on a once in a blue moon excursion to one of the most spectacular locations on the entire planet, then perhaps you would gain a better understanding of why these approaches have their fans, and why (for the most part) they most certainly are not a rip off. These activities are not exclusive IMO, nor does one size fit all.
I live in Central northern california, i have access to "regular DMT", but, how do i get a hold of 5MEO? Where would i go? Who do i contact? Ive tried to find it but im not getting close to any kind of answers.
To me, it was'nt an ego death on 5MEo, it was a removal for a bit and created space to release a ton of things the ego was unhealthily protecting. Such a powerful experience.
What I found is with ayahuasca or dmt, you can have a rational and intellectual communication with spirits or god. With 5meo dmt, the communication is purely emotional and yes, I was at the center of a big white ball of consciousness and love, surrounded by small pink lightnings. And… I felt my spirit leaving my body and heading to the center of universe, what I felt as god.
Preserves and augments ego is absolutely the greatest danger of DMT, although I also agree that ego demonization is just people regurgitating a narrative in the interest of virtue signaling
I would love to talk more about the EGO... The EGO is an integral part of the furthering of life, setting goals, and reaching them. The EGO, being indispensable in the duality dimension we reside, is a force that needs to be recognized and fed in a healthy way. And being such a powerful force, when it creates maladaptive behaviors that are, at first ,the way to rid oneself of mental and emotional pain, hence maladaptive coping skills, these behaviors seem to leak into other areas of one's life. This, in itself, will inevitably and eventually cause grief. So, this, in my opinion, is the reason most people in our position are looking for EGO-death. Instead of having the ability to search one's behaviors and work with the EGO in a cooperative and productive manner. I call this a healthy EGO diet, as opposed to an unhealthy EGO diet. I have been writing on what those two look like and have even come up with, what I call, EGO-snacks. These EGO-snacks are thoughts/intentions/motives/actions that do not affect Karmic balance. Self-Benign-Edification, if you may... ONE LOVE,, MUCH LOVE,, DCV,,
I think the same. A nice and for me fitting metaphor for the ego is the concept of a boat or submarine , similar concept . Sure "we" can swim but the sea is wild and dangerous so we build a raft and a boat to navigate , have shelter and protection and better survice a base to explore. Nothing wrong with it but some boats get so big and slow and some forget that swimming is possible. in a similar vein I see psychedelics like DMT as similar to diving equipment , or a plane. They are tools and vehicles hopes that makes ome sense
Ego is an anagram for Geo "earth". Your earthly perspective. You are the driver and your body is the vehicle. Sidereal astrology shows your make and model 🌌
Iboga in a corner hearing crickets ;)))) Iboga can take you to the realm of all other plant/non-plant medicines. The only issue is that not everyone is equipment with a sufficient vessel to reach the deeper parts of the experiences. Iboga is truly phenomenal.
One doesn't have to kill or dissolve the ego. Instead perhaps there is something more useful. The concept I wish to share is to be free of the ego. What that may look like is just not picking up identity. If there is no "I" as Identity, there is no ego. Hence there is the freedom of not carrying that in mind, emotion, and spirit. How I got there, (and it's a temporary freedom, at least what I reached) I was alone in the forest, and through immersing myself in movement, the feeling of that movement immersed in that feeling while exercising chi ( or ki in movement and that feeling) and repeating that process without thought eventually led me into an experience outside thought, and time. Entirely mystical, with no sense of myself. No drugs needed. Just taichi, and a beautiful forest full of growth, and no people around. People's presence is too painful and prevents the experience. That pretty much encapsulates my experience, which has been repeatable.
at 14:20 I couldn't help but think about a old out-dated ideas in comparative religious studies about mystical experiences, very Euro-christian centric ideas that the very kinds of "non-dual" experiences Mr. Ball is talking about are somehow always just-plain "superior" to "primitive" shamanistic visions involving entities, animals, spirits.
Monks have the same argument with dualistic vs non-dualistic practices. Intention is everything. The councisness is a shared space. In the sense that the 1 has unlimited forms
Never done either dmt but it sounds like they complement each other very well.I find that to be fascinating.shouldnt be a that versus this but appreciated as 2 parts of a whole thing from what I've heard about them.so I agree with you
It's amazing that after decades of psychedelic experiences people still don't understand that ALL experiences are SUBJECTIVE. No one can claim anything 'objective'. Nothing is objectively 'better' than anything else. It's all BS talk. If 5-meo-dmt works for Martin Ball, congratulations.
The nature of ego death is rebirth. It is a very important experience, but not the end-all-be-all. Plus you need your ego when you are crossing the street (it's important to be able to differentiate yourself from the bus), having a conversation (language is intrinsically dualistic and requires thought which is requires an ego) and so forth. So when I say the nature of ego death is rebirth I mean that when you wake up (being in the the non-dual reality), you must fall asleep (being in the phenomenological world). There is no waking up without sleep. And we are in a constant cycle of waking and sleeping, dying and being reborn. That said, the dying and rebirth can be a life alternating, transformational experience which is why the 60's LSD proponents (Leary, Alpert, etc) put it front and center as THE purpose of psychedelics. Which leads to my final point. There's a LOT of important work that can be done with psychedelics that actually require your ego. These include healing trauma, forgiveness work (of self and other), grieving, trans-generational healing and other transpersonal work. You need to be present for the most part, and in reflection utilizing your intellect. All of which is managed and harnessed by the ego. Like he says in the video, the ego can be a good thing. And while killing it may be one of the most important experiences of your life, it certainly will be reborn and will be much needed in your integration and creation of your life.
One being ‘Better’ then the other isn’t really the way to frame it. A full release 5MeO experience is definitely more energetic and profound, it is THE Mystical Experience! The Absolute Truth of Ultimate Reality. DMT can be very profound, but also very strange. I’ve always enjoyed it. They are both unique and not even comparable IMHO 🕉
Let me interject there for a second. By far the best Tryptamine of all is 5-MeO-DiPT. I mean how could anything possibly compete with a name as rad as ''Foxy Methoxy''? I rest my case.
I am a university sophomore with 2 years of community college, getting a degree in organic chemistry. I want to be part of the psychedelic chemistry community for my career, I know you are not a psychedelic chemist, but do you have any suggestions
Its definitely worth exploring, and at doses around 10mg you get a good taste of whats on offer without going too far in the deep end. Once you get above 15mg then it gets pretty serious, not necessarily in a bad way, but make sure you are committed.
@@AdeptusPsychonautica that's smoked synthetic 5meo right ? Ive seen 1 to 2mg Being described as the treshold dose ...im kinda afraid of doing to little OR to much haha...so 10mg would be a good dose you think.
Breathe deep , when the pipe touches your lips ,leave your”self” at the door with any fear you may have . Embrace the experience as you would a lover . Surrender . You will be fine .
@@26273hsjanvaj when IT was a deep of scary trip first thing u feel is grateful that reality is normal again ,then generally I'm more happy and more patient with others. Generally more loving ...and just happy to be alive
Man, I really want to experience NN dmt and can do so, but I can't get over the hurdle of actually doing it. I've attempted a couple times and all that did was scare me even more, because it was enough to where I felt an overwhelming body load coming on, there was a ringing in my ears and my heart was racing. I didn't see any kind of geometric patterns as I didn't do enough. I think a good strategy would be to just go for a dose that basically forces me into the experience. Im very good about being able to keep calm and slow my breathing and whatnot so I think once I get in there it will be fine. I think this whole dipping my toes in shit is causing me to hesitate. Also, the crack pipe method I am not very good at. So, I was thinking about sandwiching it with parsley and doing it that way. Im having to do it alone as well and I just want to make sure I don't walk around or anything.
Yes I’ve done mescaline on multiple occasions, usually as San Pedro as part of a retreat but I have also just done pure mescaline. 2CB I have done just one time previously but I have just got some more so will probably be doing it again very soon 🙂
Depends on what you value. Long term meditation can be valuable to non dualism and as a distraction from the upper layers of reality where all the froth & noise is 🙏😍
Different keys in different hands. Both person and set. NN experience fractalic, metallic and next time was no colour. Waking up out of fysical body saw meself sitting next to my body... White beam with a direction forward ...some people told about tunnel , i suppose i had that. One time 'that what is the observer' could tell and steer whatever 'it' or me is. "It" handled easily; ""do this"" or let's go " do that" instead of mechanics laughter in countless "little" beings that told what's up next.... Difficult for me to write it in Lexikon ôf Tryptamine reports 😊❤
Its a shirt from another RUclipsr called Adventures Through The Mind, you can pick one up here - www.jameswjesso.com/product/attmind-podcast-short-sleeve-t-shirt/
Hey Rob, what do you think it's a proper dosage for a non-dual experience with 5meo using the e-mesh? And also..the e-mesh settings (temperature etc.) are the same you would use for nn dmt?
It will vary from person to person, but I would recommend starting around 10mg of synthetic 5 MEO, and working up from there. Yes the e-mesh settings are the same, although you can turn the temperature down to around 185
fabulous , I've been wondering this exact question.. Do I have sub par dmt... how the hell would I know. . Agreed : ego needs checked. Familiarized. If you don't know what it does, then it runs you.
@Mark Smith I do appreciate you... I just can't bring myself to do it. Order online, well wrapped package to my address... feels a whole lot like stupid. It may work out 100 times , but there is zero control.
Very good video. I use 5meo in small amounts. We are all different with different histories etc. So ... I tend to agree with your point of view. Kindest ... 😊
I dunno, I just got it from my friend James from Adventures Through The Mind. If you drop him a message I'm sure he can tell you (it might even be him)
Interesting. at the end in the 'this that and nothing' you decribe how the focus is on the minority of nothing and this and that are ignored too much. Its something i recognise from my experiences in shamanism too, in shamanism we work a lot with the four directions/elements/seasons/stages, and people tend to focus on just one a lot. Some in the east/dawn for its new beginnings and youth (sometimes literally getting stuck there and starting new things but not fiollowing through) , some in the west for its ties to the spirit world and its connection to 'becoming' and 'destiny' or harvest/reward, but the south 'the middle' where the hard work and the patient coming to fruition happens is ignored a lot. but the north, the death, emptiness, quiet contemplation, dormancy is almost universally shunned because it is too difficult to apply. When the moon is even symbolised y three goddesses or phases.. maiden mother crone waxing full and waning. but there is a fourth the dark moon, the death hag that is almost never even mentioned. Instead it is pretended like the moon isnt there when its dark. Its somewhat interesting that some psychedelicists are deliberately focusing on that aspect, but basically making the same mistake, ignoring the rest and not integrating the whole.... basically doing the same thing but from the other side. Saying 'life is real, death is an illusion' is the same error as saying 'death is the only reality, life is an illusion' Its denying the whole by inly embracing one or more of its parts.
mg per mg, LSD is king. Breakthrough experience, when reduced to language loses meaning. Stanislav Grof tried several times without success. The same is true of all psychedelics, and for all the people who are trying to have a serious conversation or write books about something they themselves do not understand.
I think in most cases it comes from a good intention to share something which we feel has been beneficial to us, but humans have this weird feature where we get very possessive and defensive around such intentions, which can then misfire into something weird. As an example just look at religious fanatics trying to save people from eternal damnation by murdering them 😵
![Exploring DMT with Dr. Rick Strassman | The Spirit Molecule, Entities & Neuroscience [YMTP]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ezY9RUSBuqE/mqdefault.jpg)
My personal opinion is that NN DMT is more scary and unpredictable. 5MEO is nearly the same every time more or less and is a lot less uncomfortable and confusing. It's also more spiritual consistently. I'm scared of normal DMT but would do 5MEO with almost no second thought.
I completely agree about the unpredictable nature of NN. Its pretty much infinite unbounded novelty, and thats kinda what makes it such a potent storytelling technology.
For me NN when vaped is rarely scary, although when taken as ayahuasca it often is. I personally welcome that as stuff I need to deal with because I view it as a window into our own psyche, and if there is anything within me that I am afraid of then I want to face that.
Totally agree on 5MEO being more consistent - you can’t really get much more consistent than everything collapsing into pure unity 🙂
Wuuut a Dakota spotting?
@@brandonmoore_ you make him sound like a rare pokemon 😀
@@AdeptusPsychonautica I Can confirm he is indeed a rare Pokémon 😆 I met him at the Detroit Psychedelic Conference, and he also facilitated when I was at Arkana haha
Maybe I'm weird and I never tried 5meo but the scary and unpredictable is what I like the most
May I respectfully propose that the best judge of which substance is "better" than any other is the individual that's just compared the two, not Martin, nor anyone else who claims superiority of any substance. Let Martin speak for himself, but not for those whom he hasn't consulted.
For Mrs Minty, a cup of tea would be infinitely better than either NN or 5meo DMT.
Good to see you back fella!
I totally agree mate. I think the obsession that POWER = VALUE is a complete mistake because as Mrs Minty has so astutely identified, that value can come from anywhere if we just take the time to open our eyes and see it - granted thats a lot easier said than done so some of us need a bit of a kick up the arse 🙂
Good to see you too mate!
@@KIC-7766 Appreciate that KIC!
I would never speak for Adeptus, but I personally felt like his question was rhetorically simplified on purpose to spark nuance, and did not assume the answer could be ‘yes’ - it’s reminiscent of a discussion show that asks ‘do all religious people think the same?’ Nobody answers ‘yes’, so the question may seem odd to propose it, but when we see the spark caused by the question, it makes more sense overall to propose it
@@Sprite_525 I like that - "rhetorically simplified" .
@@AdeptusPsychonautica LSD in micrograms - what would be if somebody take 10mg of LSD?
I really agree with what your saying here. I used to be an iboga purist because it is what helped me so much with my addiction issues...ive realized in the last 3 years, after eperiencing 5meo, NN dmt, High dose mushrooms, that they are all different teachers with different perspectives. Its sort of like being well rounded in terms of education. It is surely better to come at a problem seeing through many lenses. Ive noticed some people, especially with 5meo, start to develop a weird ego around the substance; this is of course ironic as most people clame it is the ultimate ego destroyer. Anyway, I think you and I are on the same page which is to enjoy and respect all the plants, medicines, molecules for what they are.
Yeah its hard not to put a particular experience on a pedestal, especially when we feel it has been so beneficial to us, but I think its always helpful to remember that just as we “discovered” that experience, there are others out there waiting to be discovered.
@@AdeptusPsychonautica well said my friend
There's a reason why Buddhists usually take decades to make serious progress into enlightenment. The disciplines, techniques, and awareness of ego and desires and senses are the unassisted path to manual ego death.
Those of us taking these medicines are unlocking that same door with whatever skills and discipline that we happen to bring into the psychedelic experience. Come back to the body and the ego on the come down and the old systems reassert themselves regardless of our new understanding. That's when ego can blow up into this big headed guru/messiah complex.
@@MichaelSplatkins true eh, well said, be careful of unearned wisdom/experience perhaps?
@@billymahonyy Very much so. It shouldn't stop anyone from exploring, but there are definitely pockets of madness that can be stumbled into during and after a trip. Some of them are as simple as a shift in perspective. And a bit of mindful detachment can be all it takes to reorient ourselves back to sanity.
Nice Adventures Through The Mind shirt!
I appreciate your comments in this video. I have read one or two of Martin's books and seen many interviews with him. Like you, I agree with much of what he relates in the context of his discussions, but I always felt that he was being too dismissive of DMT. Of course, there is much that one could say on the topic of comparing the two, but you summarized the salient points of the comparison very well in a relatively short video. As you suggest, DMT and 5 MEO are complementary. It is not a matter of which is better than the other. Well done. Kudos.
I’ve had 2 accidental ego dissolution experiences on DMT. It wasn’t life changing, in fact it was strange to experience an alternate experience to being one’s self. It gave me a new perspective but afterwards I was myself again.
You are a GODSEND! I'm grateful for all that you share ❤️👍💪 loving that shirt mate!! 🤣👍
Thanks mate! Alas I can't take credit for the shirt as it comes from my fellow psychonaut RUclipsr - Adventures Through The Mind. Here is a link if you want to grab one - www.jameswjesso.com/product/attmind-podcast-short-sleeve-t-shirt/
@@AdeptusPsychonautica bout to order 2
One for me and the honey💪👍. Thanks again
I will have to ask James from ATTM for commission on these sales I am generating for him! 😀
@@AdeptusPsychonautica 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣 yes for sure! Really wished you didn't have to work a regular job for you are a natural speaker and your charisma is off the charts! YOU DESERVE EVERYTHING GREAT COMING YOUR WAY🌹🙌🙌🙌.
Interesting discussion!
Finally got my hands on some 5-MeO-DMT and I'm gonna investigate that topic for myself 🙏🏽🕉️❤️
Let me know what you make of it mate!
I’d recommend a handshake dose first to open up to the medicine and then 3 back-to-back full servings to assure a full release breakthrough 💖
How you get on?
@AUGGYXO - Must still be tripping. 🤷🏻♂️😅
You never replied back you Custer.
I'm glad someone else views killing the ego with skepticism. Yes the ego can drive us to do "bad" things due to it being itself as separate, but it also creates unique experiences along with chances to do good things with it. If we're all one and the ego is so terrible why create it to begin with? I think we should be looking for ways to use the ego during these trips instead of killing it.
Wonderfully stated. 🙌🏼💯
I like the way "spiritual teacher" Roger Castillo pragmatically puts it: The human being IS an ego. The part of us that CAN "die" permanently (even when sober) and is often referred to as the "ego" is a belief in personal doership: a psychological narrative of resistance to circumstance that manifests as 1. guilt, 2. blame, 3. pride, 4. worry/anxiety, and 5. expectation/attachment to outcomes. A deeply ingrained belief that pleasant circumstance is what makes us happy and that painful circumstance is a personal attack on who we are.
Love your perspective and opinion. Haven’t tried 5meo but I’ve experienced some chaos and a NDE on NN DMT, which I wasn’t expecting
Glad to see you back Rob, hope you enjoyed the travels friend!
Thanks James!
Love your perspective brother. Your open mindedness and critical thinking of your psychedelic experiences helps me on my own journey. Love you ❤️
I appreciate that
Great video mate. You have such an inquisitive mind and it's a real treat to hear your thoughts
Thanks Brandon 🙏
@@AdeptusPsychonautica You're very welcome! ✌️❤️
so good to have you sharing your thoughts again. Thank you brother!
I think your point about Ego Death is excellent. It’s a gift to be able to truly love yourself, love others around you and feel a connection with the fabric of this eternal tapestry that surrounds us. We are the Universe hearing itself, seeing itself, feeling itself and knowing itself. We are born to experience this consciousness from this perspective…for whatever reason…and while there’s nothing wrong with the transient experience of Ego Death itself (there is something to be learned from every experience) it just doesn’t seem right or fair to try permanently divorcing our consciousness from ourselves while still living and breathing. If life has traumatized someone to the point that they believe the only solution is to forever separate consciousness from the person and self within, it’s time to address the root of whatever pain may have impelled us to feel that way. Forge your soul and face the darkest of nights, don’t try to dissolve yourself into it without a fight. Just my opinion- all due respect towards anyone else who may feel differently.
From my experience the ego is only trapped energy in the body ( what we call negative emotions). it is not in the head, mind only reacts with thought to the tensions that are in the body. From my psychedelic experience i saw that if you have developed a good sensibility to the body the substance shows you the pain and the contractions that are in the body. From my dmt experience i saw zero images but i felt a lot of pain that went away only when i relaxed my body and stop resisting. This is why i think that Martin says that these images only preserves the ego. What i'm seeing is that liberation is a physical change e relaxation. If you are thinking you are resisting the trapped energy that cause all the problem ( basically is fear) .
thank you for your job.
Agreed, have done both extensively, but more (5-meo-DMT) and DMT is better simply because it's have a much lower body load and it's just more interesting and less hedonistic.
Many different tools and experiences with many different applications which all gravitate towards potential users to provide the perfect lesson for each individual at the perfect time.
Well said!
i would challenge the idea that 100mg of nn dmt isn't as powerful as 10 mg 5-meo. With 20-40mg dmt and a glass vapor genie I can have a full on breakthrough that completely shatters my reality. At 100mg the experience, as it often is, becomes indescribable.
The dmt experience is absolutely insane regardless of the type of dmt and is a lot to handle regardless of the type that you’re consuming I personally don’t understand why someone would want to label one better over the other
Gesture of good will thoroughly received. Thanks, mate 😇
Also, your welcome for the shirt. Glad you like it!
Also also, excellent video. I love Martin’s work, and he can be pretty totalitarian (did I use that term correctly?) with respect to the ego and reality. Which I appreciate because it offers a clear reference for debate and discussion. Although, I personally lean towards ambivalence on these matters, because I don’t really know (even though I have felt strongly about what I think I know at times).
Again, great video. I’m honoured to have made an indirect quasi-cameo!
Glad to see you are still with us mate!
Great conversation. I love both of these substances and would not want to have to choose between them. I wonder if mystical experiences only become mystical once they become part of the dual narrative, anyway. It seems like something can only be defined as mystical from the non-dual perspective. Thai food is only Thai food outside of Thailand. In Thailand it's just food, after all. Either way, I find such benefit in the non-dual experience provided by 5-meo, but also within the exploration of the egoic layers that surround that non-dual gooey center. Both explorations are so beneficial, and benefit each other. Ah, paradox.
I don't think its a paradox at all - its actually a perfect example that there are many facets of experience possible, and that there is value to be had in each. One could easily imagine a substance which instantly divides your consciousness into two, perhaps one masculine and one feminine but neither the other - it would be the ultimate dual experience 🙂
Again, that would be another facet, no more or less true than any other. Perhaps another substance might perfectly subdivide you into Hindu deities... the list goes on, no paradox, simply experiences which we as human beings would ultimately have to process.
@@AdeptusPsychonautica You are right, maybe it's more complimentary than paradoxical. That said, I may be one the only people who seems to find the nn experience to be very non-dual sometimes. I often seem to lose all contact with my egoic self on nn.
Bro your videos are amazing and I need to ask WHAT IS THAT MUSIC IN YOUR INTRO?? I listen with HD headphones and it nearly blows me off my seat every time it drops! Hell that track is a DMT experience itself 😱
Its called Confronting Myself by Lena Raine - ruclips.net/video/b_oEDGONSc4/видео.html
@@AdeptusPsychonautica Thanks man! Keep making awesome videos, love your channel! 🤙
Very matured perspective on the topic, and a really interesting debate. I would like to know your perspective on Salvia, specially in comparison with NN DMT and 5 MeO DMT.
This Video is awesome!!
Thanks 🙂
I agree with your comments on ego being over used in regards to describing psychedelic experience
Always appreciate your channel mate.
Some of the most honest, balanced and informative content in a field that is often filled with hype, hyperbole, dogmatism and charlatans. Keep up the good work.
Thanks John, will do mate 🙏
What a mystical telling, like I was in a asmr trip
I subscribed to your channel loong ago when you had few subs. It’s been a while since I’ve watched one of your videos, and man it’s a pleasure to be back.
Absolutely.
Arguments about what's better or worse are carried on by those
who have not realized.
Those who have,
are free from both ❤
In my personal experience, 5-Meo DMT is merely the "secular" version of NnDMT, simply because 5-Meo DMT is essentially almost an identical experience minus nearly ALL visuals. It is as if some clone of your consciousness is sent off to actually experience the DMT realm, but you who smoked the 5-Meo DMT just experience a sleep-like blackout. This is going to be extremely powerful as the bridge offered to those who are traumatized by a previous, harsh psychedelic experience, or those who are afraid of what they will end up seeing and experiencing on NnDMT. It simply has to be admitted, that NnDMT is WAY too visual and daunting an experience that can shellshock most people. Perhaps as a clinical tool to be made available to a great many people including the particularly timid and cautious, 5-Meo DMT is going to be the amazing surrogate.
We spoke with a Peruvian shaman who came here to lead two ceremonies: he told us that the toad messes you up in such a way that you need a couple of months of Ayahuasca treatment in order to get rid of all the issues. He didn't tell us what those issues were, though.
I had an ego death, or a non dual experience, under the influence of Ayahuasca and it's certainlainly one of the most rewarding experiences ever. It literally changed my life. So, you can have an ego death even with "usual" DMT.
That said, I have the impression that enthusiasts of 5-MeO-DMT are looking for the immense sense of love towards everything and everybody and the well being you experience in the aftermaths. That looks to me more like a quick fix or even a way to escape reality for a little while, whereas DMT quite literally pushes you to work on yourself in your everyday's life to maintaining the benefits of the experience and for longer lasting results.
I have also had an ego death and unitive experience on ayahuasca, so there is certainly some overlap between these two substances.
Its interesting you mention about 5 MEO DMT being more of an escape because my wife who has addiction problems mentioned something similar. She said that it was the ultimate escape because it felt like you were dead and so free from all of the issues of life, and she described that freedom as complete bliss. Now that raises some questions about whether or not that is a healthy mentality to have. On the one hand if it brings about some sense of relief then its hard to argue against, but the language used to equate DEAD with RELIEF is quite disconcerting.
This is hands down my new favorite channel. Insightful, humorous, and very unique in its subject matter and scope. Loveee it brah.
Cheers Jules 🙏
I totally agree with you on all points. I'd like to add that one property of DMT that makes it a superior tool compared to 5-MeO, is that you can take it orally with iMAO thus extending the experience for hours. With 5-MeO that can lead to fatal consequences. Not to mention that 5-MeO taken in high doses can cause respiratory depression, and DMT is much safer.
Excellent points mate
Blimey ... I've been doing some research and feeling ready to try my first dmt trip... I've done lots of different stuff across my 20's and 30's mainly clubbing stuff 😉, but at 43 now I'm looking for something spiritual as I become more aware of my mortality ... two of my friends have tried it and had amazing experiences .... the respiratory depression has pricked my focus up though 😮😮
What you’ve said is interesting (you’ve seriously drilled into the subject ~ massive respect to you!) … as a person who’s embraced 80+ psilocybin experiences… (just 2 n,n DMT experiences… no MAO’s… but it was like flying through Tokyo with my face! Haha) …with some well designed MAO-DMT combo… it would be better metabolised.
I starting with 3.5gms and the next day… a “ego introduction” experience. w/7gms of albino PE… I couldn’t see my toes (they looked webbed… as did my fingers) I coiled into a pre natal state (and fetal position)… and was taken into time periods of life and then asked the questions or was dialoguing with intergalactic travel… and it told me as human bodies a cross celestial’trip’ would not be available… I do wonder what this meant? It did infer that it’s not a limitation… more just a practical question
If you are ever visiting Vancouver, BC… it would be fun to see your talk or introduce you to Whistler and some profoundly beautiful spots that you’d appreciate
Thank you very much for your very accurate analysis. Appreciate your style and approach. Keep on!
What a fascinating discussion, Rob. I can see Martin's perspective, albeit quite an absolutist stance and his could be seen as the presentation of ultimates ."My dog's bigger than your dog". I know and love Martin, so it ought to pointed out that he is a man with both feet on the ground, a great deal if the time, with a healthy family life and numerous musical and artistic projects ongoing. I myself respect each compound for it's unique magik. And I too share your appreciation for the rich tapestry that is life within this multidimensional, dualistic paradigmn that we coexist within. Yes, all the cards in the deck of subjective experinces are of immense value. So I applaud your insights, as well.
The late great James Orac felt strongly that nn-DMT targeted the pinnacle of the kaleidoscopic realm of the third eye and the infinite variation of fractally reflections. Ancient knowledge and geometric languages spoken in schintslating sonic vibrations and glorious colors. Whereas he was convinced that 5-MeO dissolved the subjective witness and triggered full activation of the crown region. Basically, by stacking them as ascending expansions of psychic energy blooming, he likewise places the Samadhi states of the nondual experience, above those of the highly textural dualistic visionary mythos of the "psychedelic experience".
This is idehtical to the classuc Yogic philosophy of the ascension of the kundalini arising upwards, geyser-like waves of kenetic energy wriggling up the spinal axis of the subjective voyager. Sahaja Samadhi retains footing within the dynamic of subjectivity. One interphases with the Oneness and travels throughout all of the diversity within the web of life. Nirvikalpa Samadhi draws the attention of the person into dissolution of self-consciousness. So much so, that an enlightenment them occurs in which the individual evaporates into the totality.
From my small understanding, the ancient Rishis didn't feel that Sahaja Samadhi was the equal of Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Again, another absolutist conception. I have come to savor the full variety of human evolution in bloom. Arriving to a place where the mystical and the seemingly mundane are in complete sinc (whether sober or dosed). It's really all about the proper balance, eh? :)
Thanks Jon, if you would like to hear more conversation between Martin and I then I appeared on his podcast a few weeks after this and we had a really good chat - www.podomatic.com/podcasts/entheogenic/episodes/2022-04-04T10_00_00-07_00
I totally agree that 5 MEO and NN DMT are such vastly different experiences that the idea of "better" seems almost like the wrong approach. Personally I love both 🙂
Yes it is! Well I’ve done Bufo once and DMT many times & I love both so much, but I do feel the Bufo experience and the long lasting therapeutic effects far out strip the DMT experience, it makes DMT seem like child’s play in comparison
Having done both on many occasions, in terms of what you get out of it I think it comes down to what you do WITH the experience rather than the experience itself. Often the most profound insights are very simple without necessarily needing the ego to be dissolved.
I was too caught up in all the stories. My story, the worlds stories, everybody's stories and dramas. Done ayahuasca/DMT plenty times and got only more caught up in all the stories and selfdrama. All the stories we keep telling ourselves only prevents us in having a goodloving relationship with eachother. It wasnt untill 5MeO I finally experienced freedom from all the stories I, We've been told and keep telling ourselves. The complete deconstruction and all that remains is LOVE. This has helped me greatly and now Im able to have a healthy distance from all the stories and not be so attached to them. It's what brought me the most healing, ever greatful.
@Eddie Hitler It's commonly referred to as "Bufo" because the natural source of 5-MeO-DMT is the toad Bufo alvarius.
Anyway, have you had any experience with bufotenine? Would love to hear about its effects.
2:51 -- "Martin and the Psychedelic Pissing Contest" would make a great name for a band 😀
I haven't tried any of these, but of what I've heard, 5Meo does seem more profound. NN-DMT sounds like an incredible, spectacular show with fireworks, while 5MEO sounds like a nirvana, dissolving into infinity. It's definitely great to experience both and NN-Dmt seems more suitable for more often usage. And surely NN can cause some super profound experiences, like the high dose described by Patricio Dominguez for example. Yet, the depth of the experiences sounds incomparable between the 2.
5-MEO-DMT is completely different. It still has a classic tryptamine feel, but it's way less visual. I just got back from Mexico and was with a native Shaman the whole time I was down there and got to smoke 5 MEO from Sonoran Desert toads a couple of times on the beach in Cabo. It was absolutely amazing. He would sing these wild chants every time I would do it and the only way I can describe it is it feels like Home
@Jamela John what? Nothing comes up when I search for 'Grewnation' . I don't really need a source anyways I know where it's at
@Mark Smith don't believe it. Those are all scammers. I have plenty where I am
Are oranges objectively better than horses?
Lol - nailed it mate 👍
Horses bro come on haha
"Which is better, quartered, and served up at half time?"
Sabnock here (from over at reddit), we may not see eye to eye on Ayahuasca when it comes to solo vs tradition, but i completely agree with everything you've said in this video. Oh, and no hard feelings mate.
So you agree that people should have an open mind to ALL approaches and not be entrenched in a certain mindset as if it applies to EVERYONE? Dude, if you had come to that conclusion sooner you could have saved yourself a whole lot of ranting and name calling on reddit 😀
Sure no hard feelings from my side chief.
@@AdeptusPsychonautica - Well, technically i've been of that opinion the whole time, the only thing i was saying, in general and not just towards you, was that the solo route is a perfectly valid route for people to go and that i embrace all routes as equally valid, i just think the traditional stuff is a little overblown or can even be a bit ensnaring and people get kinda hardheaded about that being the only "proper" way to go about working with Aya, though i'm sure all routes probably have their exaggerations.
Idk i just get tired of the traditional community finding some excuse or reason as to why solo Aya can't work very well, and sure it's not a path for the less determined, i do think they'd be better suited to the traditional side of things, but i do think we should give people more credit and encouragement, as well as education, so that if they're going to go about such things on their own, they can do so safely and rightly.
And i think people deserve to know that if gone about more rightly, solo Aya can be quite beneficial and in some cases even more beneficial to one's day to day life than going to the jungle for a few weeks and coming back to the day to day, i think regular practice and work with the medicine, as well as with oneself, is overall a better way to go, which doesn't really say anything about the traditional stuff because i'm sure that route can be quite beneficial and there's tons to learn from all this stuff imo, so no stone unturned as they say, explore, study, learn.
@@Sabnock1990 I would pretty much agree with all of that, but what you were actually saying in that thread, which was (I quote) that traditional approaches are BS, a rip-off, and that anyone who can’t get the healing they need from the solo route is “doing it wrong”, and that anyone who disagreed with you was narrow minded.
Lets just say it was a far cry from the balanced approach you outline above 🙂
@@AdeptusPsychonautica- Yeah i definitely could've worded that a bit better. I do still think it's a bit of a rip off though considering what all people can get from Aya on their own/in general, and it's not that i think tradition is bullshit but rather people's attitudes surrounding it acting as if it's the only proper way to go about things, that's what i think is bullshit, not the traditions themselves.
But yes, if done rightly on one's own, Aya will work, people can have amazing and highly beneficial experiences, and based on what i've seen from some folks online, people do sometimes do things wrong at home, they either haven't brewed it properly or they didn't use the right dosages or they make stupid smoothies in order to consume the DMT, so i'd say those people are doing it wrong and it's no wonder they aren't getting good results. I'm not doubting the influence of tradition and the ceremony and the shaman and icaros and all that, and i hope to experience that someday, but when done rightly, yes, it will work amazingly at home.
And again, what i see as narrow mindedness is being stuck in one view of things and thinking anything outside of that is wrong or disrespectful or what not, which again, the traditionalists do seem a bit hardheaded and narrow minded, they don't have to compromise their way of doing things in order to accept/acknowledge/embrace that there are other ways to do things.
It's not at all about "my way or the highway", quite the contrary, most Aya traditionalists, it seems, have that kind of attitude/perspective, the traditional way or the highway, which is weird considering Aya is used differently by many groups, shamans, tribes, regions and for different purposes. That's why i said people are narrow minded, because they just don't accept that people can get the benefits of Aya without having to fork over a few grand for a few days worth of ceremonies.
What about you though? Do you agree that there's benefit in regular practice/work with Aya compared to people flying to the jungle for a few weeks and having a few ceremonies and then going back home? Don't you think people could get more benefit from regular practice, either on their own or under the care of a professional whether traditional or not? And, which do you think can be more beneficial for one's day to day, a once in a blue moon excursion or regular practice/work with Aya? I fall into the regular practice category personally, i think at least to a certain extent, people have a lot to learn and can learn a lot and have better results in their day to day, but i think it can be more beneficial on your own or to go to a place locally, and work with it regularly vs having a few experiences and thinking that's that. Ya know?
My position on these matters is on full display across this channel - I straddle both traditional and DIY at home approaches, and I find both to be valid with their own pros and cons. I would completely agree that the "traditional only" approach is often overblown, but be careful not to fall into that same mentality just from the opposite side.
I think the simple analogy here is music. I love listening to music on my hi-fi system at home - I get IMMENSE joy from this. In no way does that completely negate the thrill of seeing a band live, its a completely different experience.
Now one could argue that its just the same music, and that travelling to see a band live is a chore, and that live tickets cost money so its a "rip off", and I would reply that they are entitled to their personal preference for how they consume music, but the idea that just because that is THEIR preference means there is no value for anyone else is clearly nonsense.
I would also inform them that because simply because X costs more than Y does not mean it is a "rip off", particularly if X is an entirely different product to Y. After all the logistics of transporting a band, all their equipment, all their staff, whatever those people eat, paying for the venue, and then making some kind of living wage, all this stacks up. I would hope that any rational person would consider such logical factors before making such defamatory statements.
So to bring it back to ayahuasca (although realistically I think we are probably talking about anahuasca or pharmahuasca) - I have zero problem with someone doing it at home, and have done it many times myself. I also think there absolutely are situations where I WOULD NOT recommend that someone do it at home alone, and that they would be receive greater benefit by working within a certain framework (possibly traditional but not necessarily) and being guided through a long term process. As an example if we took a combat veteran with severe PTSD then I would be extremely sceptical that the results of them drinking ayahuasca alone in their bedroom would match those from spending 2 weeks at a retreat center, being guided through a recovery program, receiving 24/7 therapy, in a serene location entirely staffed by people devoted their well-being. Surely this is not particularly controversial?
So sure, practice as much as suits you at home - you will never hear any criticism from me on that front. And if the impulse takes you to venture on a once in a blue moon excursion to one of the most spectacular locations on the entire planet, then perhaps you would gain a better understanding of why these approaches have their fans, and why (for the most part) they most certainly are not a rip off.
These activities are not exclusive IMO, nor does one size fit all.
I dont take anything but I find your vids fascinating! 🤩
I live in Central northern california, i have access to "regular DMT", but, how do i get a hold of 5MEO? Where would i go? Who do i contact? Ive tried to find it but im not getting close to any kind of answers.
To me, it was'nt an ego death on 5MEo, it was a removal for a bit and created space to release a ton of things the ego was unhealthily protecting. Such a powerful experience.
Its great to listen to your insights ! Thank you !
What I found is with ayahuasca or dmt, you can have a rational and intellectual communication with spirits or god. With 5meo dmt, the communication is purely emotional and yes, I was at the center of a big white ball of consciousness and love, surrounded by small pink lightnings. And… I felt my spirit leaving my body and heading to the center of universe, what I felt as god.
I would agree with this
Preserves and augments ego is absolutely the greatest danger of DMT, although I also agree that ego demonization is just people regurgitating a narrative in the interest of virtue signaling
Like the way you think mate. Will have to listen to a few more of your vids. But you got me listening with this one.
Cheers Michael, glad you liked it
I just have to say awesome background man
Thanks!
I would love to talk more about the EGO... The EGO is an integral part of the furthering of life, setting goals, and reaching them. The EGO, being indispensable in the duality dimension we reside, is a force that needs to be recognized and fed in a healthy way. And being such a powerful force, when it creates maladaptive behaviors that are, at first ,the way to rid oneself of mental and emotional pain, hence maladaptive coping skills, these behaviors seem to leak into other areas of one's life. This, in itself, will inevitably and eventually cause grief. So, this, in my opinion, is the reason most people in our position are looking for EGO-death. Instead of having the ability to search one's behaviors and work with the EGO in a cooperative and productive manner.
I call this a healthy EGO diet, as opposed to an unhealthy EGO diet. I have been writing on what those two look like and have even come up with, what I call, EGO-snacks. These EGO-snacks are thoughts/intentions/motives/actions that do not affect Karmic balance. Self-Benign-Edification, if you may... ONE LOVE,, MUCH LOVE,, DCV,,
I think the same.
A nice and for me fitting metaphor for the ego is the concept of a boat or submarine , similar concept . Sure "we" can swim but the sea is wild and dangerous so we build a raft and a boat to navigate , have shelter and protection and better survice a base to explore. Nothing wrong with it but some boats get so big and slow and some forget that swimming is possible.
in a similar vein I see psychedelics like DMT as similar to diving equipment , or a plane. They are tools and vehicles
hopes that makes ome sense
This is a very "dual" approach to rank substances in terms of ultimate truth, and then to tell others that this how truth is ranked.
The ultimate contradiction 🙂
“Ego” is like the word “Love” it means many different things depends on who says it and what they’re trying to say
Ego is an anagram for Geo "earth". Your earthly perspective. You are the driver and your body is the vehicle.
Sidereal astrology shows your make and model 🌌
Iboga in a corner hearing crickets ;)))) Iboga can take you to the realm of all other plant/non-plant medicines. The only issue is that not everyone is equipment with a sufficient vessel to reach the deeper parts of the experiences. Iboga is truly phenomenal.
One doesn't have to kill or dissolve the ego. Instead perhaps there is something more useful. The concept I wish to share is to be free of the ego. What that may look like is just not picking up identity. If there is no "I" as Identity, there is no ego. Hence there is the freedom of not carrying that in mind, emotion, and spirit.
How I got there, (and it's a temporary freedom, at least what I reached) I was alone in the forest, and through immersing myself in movement, the feeling of that movement immersed in that feeling while exercising chi ( or ki in movement and that feeling) and repeating that process without thought eventually led me into an experience outside thought, and time. Entirely mystical, with no sense of myself. No drugs needed. Just taichi, and a beautiful forest full of growth, and no people around. People's presence is too painful and prevents the experience.
That pretty much encapsulates my experience, which has been repeatable.
just found your channel. good stuff!
Thanks! We actually talked a little bit on reddit when you were first starting out on RUclips.
@@AdeptusPsychonautica holy shit! u got some great videos brother!
at 14:20 I couldn't help but think about a old out-dated ideas in comparative religious studies about mystical experiences, very Euro-christian centric ideas that the very kinds of "non-dual" experiences Mr. Ball is talking about are somehow always just-plain "superior" to "primitive" shamanistic visions involving entities, animals, spirits.
Killing the ego is an ego trip in of itself😂
Mixing the 2 is where it's at 😉
*My third or maybe fourth time trying this, I decided I wanted to experience a "breakthrough" dose*
Has anyone considered the combination of the TWO, specifically as matching the naturally occurring ratio within Human Body?
Monks have the same argument with dualistic vs non-dualistic practices. Intention is everything. The councisness is a shared space. In the sense that the 1 has unlimited forms
Never done either dmt but it sounds like they complement each other very well.I find that to be fascinating.shouldnt be a that versus this but appreciated as 2 parts of a whole thing from what I've heard about them.so I agree with you
It's amazing that after decades of psychedelic experiences people still don't understand that ALL experiences are SUBJECTIVE. No one can claim anything 'objective'. Nothing is objectively 'better' than anything else. It's all BS talk. If 5-meo-dmt works for Martin Ball, congratulations.
Damn right, I wish this blindingly obvious point was more universally accepted.
100% agree
Wise words!
The nature of ego death is rebirth. It is a very important experience, but not the end-all-be-all. Plus you need your ego when you are crossing the street (it's important to be able to differentiate yourself from the bus), having a conversation (language is intrinsically dualistic and requires thought which is requires an ego) and so forth.
So when I say the nature of ego death is rebirth I mean that when you wake up (being in the the non-dual reality), you must fall asleep (being in the phenomenological world). There is no waking up without sleep. And we are in a constant cycle of waking and sleeping, dying and being reborn.
That said, the dying and rebirth can be a life alternating, transformational experience which is why the 60's LSD proponents (Leary, Alpert, etc) put it front and center as THE purpose of psychedelics.
Which leads to my final point. There's a LOT of important work that can be done with psychedelics that actually require your ego. These include healing trauma, forgiveness work (of self and other), grieving, trans-generational healing and other transpersonal work. You need to be present for the most part, and in reflection utilizing your intellect. All of which is managed and harnessed by the ego.
Like he says in the video, the ego can be a good thing. And while killing it may be one of the most important experiences of your life, it certainly will be reborn and will be much needed in your integration and creation of your life.
One being ‘Better’ then the other isn’t really the way to frame it. A full release 5MeO experience is definitely more energetic and profound, it is THE Mystical Experience! The Absolute Truth of Ultimate Reality.
DMT can be very profound, but also very strange. I’ve always enjoyed it. They are both unique and not even comparable IMHO 🕉
I NEED that t shirt fam! Where could I find it?
Let me interject there for a second. By far the best Tryptamine of all is 5-MeO-DiPT. I mean how could anything possibly compete with a name as rad as ''Foxy Methoxy''?
I rest my case.
Damn that catchy marketing - SOLD!
One rare gem I've always wanted to try. 5-meo-mipt too
Thank you!
Awesome video thank u
Glad you enjoyed it
I am a university sophomore with 2 years of community college, getting a degree in organic chemistry. I want to be part of the psychedelic chemistry community for my career, I know you are not a psychedelic chemist, but do you have any suggestions
If your ego is not your amigo you're doing it wrong!
The truly superior experience is nn & 5meo together
i love them both!!
Ive been sitting on 5 meo for a long time...ive done NN more then a hunderd Times...5meo scares me lol
Its definitely worth exploring, and at doses around 10mg you get a good taste of whats on offer without going too far in the deep end. Once you get above 15mg then it gets pretty serious, not necessarily in a bad way, but make sure you are committed.
@@AdeptusPsychonautica that's smoked synthetic 5meo right ? Ive seen 1 to 2mg Being described as the treshold dose ...im kinda afraid of doing to little OR to much haha...so 10mg would be a good dose you think.
Breathe deep , when the pipe touches your lips ,leave your”self” at the door with any fear you may have . Embrace the experience as you would a lover . Surrender . You will be fine .
dude whats the feelings when trip ends? i mean how u feel. does it change human like personality
@@26273hsjanvaj when IT was a deep of scary trip first thing u feel is grateful that reality is normal again ,then generally I'm more happy and more patient with others. Generally more loving ...and just happy to be alive
Also what’s the name of the outro music please?
I didn't like ego death because im egotesticle
Is 5meo the same as sapo? I might be trying sapo soon in mexico.
Yes Sapo/Bufo contains 5 MEO DMT, along with some other stuff
Yet to journey with either compounds but Im Patiently hoping..
Man, I really want to experience NN dmt and can do so, but I can't get over the hurdle of actually doing it. I've attempted a couple times and all that did was scare me even more, because it was enough to where I felt an overwhelming body load coming on, there was a ringing in my ears and my heart was racing. I didn't see any kind of geometric patterns as I didn't do enough.
I think a good strategy would be to just go for a dose that basically forces me into the experience. Im very good about being able to keep calm and slow my breathing and whatnot so I think once I get in there it will be fine. I think this whole dipping my toes in shit is causing me to hesitate.
Also, the crack pipe method I am not very good at. So, I was thinking about sandwiching it with parsley and doing it that way. Im having to do it alone as well and I just want to make sure I don't walk around or anything.
Parsley? Fuck no 🤢
There's literally nothing that even comes close to the intensity of a full breakthrough dose 5meo experience.
Hey Adeptus Psychonautica! Ever try or any interest in Mescaline or other Phenethylamines 2C-B/E?
Yes I’ve done mescaline on multiple occasions, usually as San Pedro as part of a retreat but I have also just done pure mescaline.
2CB I have done just one time previously but I have just got some more so will probably be doing it again very soon 🙂
@@AdeptusPsychonautica Awesome there my DOC, and hard to come by in the USA.
Depends on what you value. Long term meditation can be valuable to non dualism and as a distraction from the upper layers of reality where all the froth & noise is 🙏😍
Different keys in different hands. Both person and set.
NN experience fractalic, metallic and next time was no colour. Waking up out of fysical body saw meself sitting next to my body...
White beam with a direction forward ...some people told about tunnel , i suppose i had that.
One time 'that what is the observer' could tell and steer whatever 'it' or me is.
"It" handled easily; ""do this""
or let's go " do that" instead of mechanics laughter in countless "little" beings that told what's up next....
Difficult for me to write it in Lexikon ôf Tryptamine reports 😊❤
Your shirt is amazing ! Do you sell them ? I would love to buy the exact one
Its a shirt from another RUclipsr called Adventures Through The Mind, you can pick one up here - www.jameswjesso.com/product/attmind-podcast-short-sleeve-t-shirt/
@@AdeptusPsychonautica will do ! Thank you very much
I've never taken salvia divinorum, but surely as far as milligrammage, LSD wins the psychedelic pissing contest?
Maybe, I just remember seeing a Terence Mckenna lecture where he declared Salvia as being the most potent psychedelic pound for pound
Hey Rob, what do you think it's a proper dosage for a non-dual experience with 5meo using the e-mesh? And also..the e-mesh settings (temperature etc.) are the same you would use for nn dmt?
It will vary from person to person, but I would recommend starting around 10mg of synthetic 5 MEO, and working up from there.
Yes the e-mesh settings are the same, although you can turn the temperature down to around 185
@@AdeptusPsychonautica thanks a lot mate! And thanks for your videos..I've found very helpful stuff🤙❤
As with all things in life no matter what form of DMT you chose everyone will experience it differently, we are all individuals and not clones.
What's the song at the start of the video please? The arpeggiator and vocal chants? Cheers
ruclips.net/video/b_oEDGONSc4/видео.html
fabulous , I've been wondering this exact question.. Do I have sub par dmt... how the hell would I know. .
Agreed : ego needs checked. Familiarized. If you don't know what it does, then it runs you.
@Mark Smith I do appreciate you... I just can't bring myself to do it. Order online, well wrapped package to my address... feels a whole lot like stupid. It may work out 100 times , but there is zero control.
Hey man I really like your room, how do I make something like this?
Its a green screen. I hate to break the illusion but in reality its just a plain white wall
@@AdeptusPsychonautica what a shame it looked really cool I thought it was real
Very good video. I use 5meo in small amounts. We are all different with different histories etc. So ... I tend to agree with your point of view.
Kindest ... 😊
Great as always, may you write the name of the tshirt artist? Thanks
I dunno, I just got it from my friend James from Adventures Through The Mind. If you drop him a message I'm sure he can tell you (it might even be him)
Interesting. at the end in the 'this that and nothing' you decribe how the focus is on the minority of nothing and this and that are ignored too much.
Its something i recognise from my experiences in shamanism too, in shamanism we work a lot with the four directions/elements/seasons/stages, and people tend to focus on just one a lot.
Some in the east/dawn for its new beginnings and youth (sometimes literally getting stuck there and starting new things but not fiollowing through) , some in the west for its ties to the spirit world and its connection to 'becoming' and 'destiny' or harvest/reward, but the south 'the middle' where the hard work and the patient coming to fruition happens is ignored a lot. but the north, the death, emptiness, quiet contemplation, dormancy is almost universally shunned because it is too difficult to apply. When the moon is even symbolised y three goddesses or phases.. maiden mother crone waxing full and waning. but there is a fourth the dark moon, the death hag that is almost never even mentioned. Instead it is pretended like the moon isnt there when its dark.
Its somewhat interesting that some psychedelicists are deliberately focusing on that aspect, but basically making the same mistake, ignoring the rest and not integrating the whole.... basically doing the same thing but from the other side.
Saying 'life is real, death is an illusion' is the same error as saying 'death is the only reality, life is an illusion' Its denying the whole by inly embracing one or more of its parts.
mg per mg, LSD is king. Breakthrough experience, when reduced to language loses meaning. Stanislav Grof tried several times without success. The same is true of all psychedelics, and for all the people who are trying to have a serious conversation or write books about something they themselves do not understand.
Why do we have feelings about when and where to take certain substances? I wonder where that comes from.
I think in most cases it comes from a good intention to share something which we feel has been beneficial to us, but humans have this weird feature where we get very possessive and defensive around such intentions, which can then misfire into something weird.
As an example just look at religious fanatics trying to save people from eternal damnation by murdering them 😵