God. I love dc reboots as a concept. Clean up the timeline. Tell some new stories. Integrate classic characters. But every single time I feel like they find a new way to Jack it all up
The problem is: DC doesn't go far enough. With the original Crisis they tried to keep some of the old continuity, which led to problems among which that resulted in the end of my favorite comic: Legion of Super-Heroes. "Crisis..." so damaged the Legion that they had to spend issue after issue fixing problem and things got so bad that the Creative Team finally decided to wipe everything out and start from scratch because they couldn't fix the problems. I think if DC had wiped out everything in the original "Crisis..." and then started from scratch it would have eliminated the problems that led to all of the subsequent reboots. Concerning the Post-Crisis Earth, in "Infinite Crisis" they said that Earth-One was made the template for the Post-Crisis Earth and parts of the other Earths were folded into it. This tied into the problems with Power Girl. Since her original origin couldn't work, they kept changing it. It was finally explained that she should not have survived "Crisis..." but she slipped through the cracks and the universe tried to fit her in as best as it could. In "Infinite Crisis" they restored her to being the cousin of the Earth-Two Superman. The problem with Donna Troy was that she came about due to a mistake. When they put her into the Teen Titans, they thought she was the teenage sidekick of Wonder Woman. However, she was actually Wonder Woman as a teenager. At one time using magic Wonder Woman would have adventures with her teenage self. However, they came up with a fairly simple origin for her: She was an orphan found by Wonder Woman and taken to be raised by the Amazons. She was granted powers like Wonder Woman can came to Man's World. The problem was when they rebooted Wonder Woman, which made Donna Troy's origin invalid.
That's kind of self fulfilling prophecy. Everything fizzles out eventually. No creative team can keep a book good for all of time. Eventually you're goong to need a new creative team and new direction.
@@Solitaire001 there was so much Wonder Girl convoluted mess that it's not funny. Even before Donna shows up. Wonder Woman 110-122 (sans No. 117) is the equivalent of Superboy (Clark Kent) and Aquaboy (Arthur Curry) easy to explain...3/4 of the core Super Friends had careers as youngsters before their adult careers in the league...because logically Batman couldn't, though he did attempt a few escapades ever so often as Flying Fox/Executioner. Wonder Woman 123-148) Multiverse of Madness alternating with her reformed foe Baroness building the original chronomorphers on the main earth...read Diana's notes in which is which. The reason I put a star in 117? Doesn't that Wonder Girl story sound...very Donna-ish? Perhaps Donna was "planned" as early as 1960, but was never acknowledged as such until 1964 because most editors and writers were of the same mind as the Amazons about canons...the only ones they cared about go "boom". I also like to think that with Brave and the Bold 64 and Teen Titans 29 that due to cosmic shenanigans trying to erase Donna on the cover of the latter, that retroactively to sustain her, all Diana's chronomorpher stories+ WW 117 were augmented as Donna appearances without chronomorphers done Supergirl style because Diana, like Clark wouldn't really consider Donna a sidekick if Kara isn't really one either and reprints often justified retcons by augmenting Diana stories such as 117 to be Donna ones.) and Barry Allen does it again. The unedited stories of Wonder Fam are now Earth 124 though...so that's something.
@@Superlad9494 The real mess with Donna Troy didn't begin until "Crisis on Infinite Earths." They came up with a fairly simple origin that worked: She was an orphan found in a burning building by Wonder Woman. She took Donna to Paradise Island where she was raised by the Amazons and given powers similar to Wonder Woman's. Later, they expanded on her original by having Dick Grayson investigate Donna's origins to find out where she came from (although if they had been friends so long why didn't he investigate sooner?). This gave her a full, logical origin that worked...until "Crisis..." That's where the real mess started.
You forgot the whole other reboot at DC when the company moved to LA and their NYC editorial staff responsible for Infinite Crisis/Flashpoint/New 52 were mostly fired or reassigned, which is why there have been fewer line-wide shakeups since.
Let’s not forgot how after Infinite Crisis DC incorporated the Milestone Universe (Static Shock) into the main one but then they quietly disappeared to the point where Milestone came back with a hard reboot post Rebirth as a separate universe and imprint once again.
You know that episode from It’s Always Sunny that had Charlie freaking over while looking at a bunch of notes on a wall, yeah this is prob what it feel like
I love how batmans lore is so consistent that they didn't even touched him the first time they rebooted the timeline and got someone as insane as grant morrison to make sense of all of it
5:11 Fun fact, that Rubik's Cube is impossible to solve. Green and Blue are opposite colors, in the cube so you can't have a corner with both Green and Blue (Upper corner, closest to the camara on perspective)
Maybe its just a different color scheme, and the centers aren't in the same place where they should be. The first rubiks cubes have this kind of color scheme, with White opposite to red.
The Pre-Crisis DC Multiverse was a triumph. In the Bronze Age, they made Earth-Two as compelling and fully fleshed out as Earth-One. All-Star Squadron then raised this to the level of art, weaving together the entire Golden Age into one rich tapestry. It was amazing. Then they broke it. And it's never been fixed.
I'm a dedicated Green Lantern reader. I don't remember one single major retcon or reboot . It all just kinda flowed. People don't seem to realize that Parralax actually first appeared waaay back in Green Lantern Corps #224. Geoff Jones definitely expanded the GL continuity yet the road was already layed.
2 things: 1.) I kinda like New 52. The Johns era Green Lantern already had a rebooted origin for Hal from the Emerald Dawn version. And Aquaman actually was cool for once. The Justice League got some of their greatest hits. Action Comics was a nice way to tell Clark’s past years. And a bunch of other comics were good too. It’s just that the bad stuff managed to stand out because they were that bad. 2.) DCoIE and DKDM were products of Dan DiDio’s cancelled reboot, DC Generation Five. Same reason why we had Future State, Superman & The Authority, and Batman The Detective. So DKDM and DCoIE had some reason to exist, it’s just that they are remnants of something that doesn’t exist anymore in an era where dc is trying to pick up the pieces from that.
I think Ganthet's Tale bears a small mention. It retconned the Anti-Monitor's hand from COIE (and other places) as an illusion created by the Guardians themselves and the nature of reality where, due to krona looking back in time, the Anti-Matter universe wasn't created, but the entire universe was reset and "born old", losing billions of years of life. I read Zero Hour at the time. I thought it was great. I have the old press kit for it.
The reason for CoIE, as with so many of DC's blunders, was Marvel Envy. Marvel was selling better so DC tried to imitate them whenever they could. "Marvel has only a single universe? Well then by god let's pare things down to a single universe as well!"
Listen, I don't want to seem like an um actually guy, but the Silver Age, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Rebirth, Dark Knights Death Metal, and Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths were never reboots. Only Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint were reboots. Lemme explain. In the silver age, they did change universes but it was still within the same continuity, it was just different universes. The continuity of the Golden Age, Silver Age and Bronze Age were in the Pre-Crisis continuity. Then came Crisis on Infinite Earths which rebooted DC for the first time. The continuity after that was called post-crisis (or pre-flashpoint) and when it started it had some continuity problems. So Zero Hour was made which did retcon and fix some continuity problems, but it didn't do a full reboot and all the stories with only a few retcons were still canon to post-crisis. Infinite Crisis, like Zero Hour, changed certain things within the continuity, but again like Zero Hour, it was never a full reboot and we were still in post-crisis but some stuff was different. Then came Flashpoint which rebooted DC for the second time. The continuity after Flashpoint is called the New 52 (or post-flashpoint). A lot of people didn't like the New 52 and they missed the post-crisis continuity. So in 2016, DC created the Rebirth event which restored a lot of post-crisis stories, characters and relationships. This confuses people a lot into thinking that DC was rebooted, but again this wasn't a full reboot. It was more of a soft reboot which drastically changed things. Then came Death Metal and Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths which brought back the multiverse and again restored a lot of post-crisis things, but it never fully rebooted DC. So while the Silver Age, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Rebirth, Dark Knights Death Metal and Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths all changed a lot of things and retconned certain stuff within the Pre-crisis, post-crisis and New 52 continuities, only Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint actually rebooted DC
All these distinctions to me have always felt very unecessary. Especially when most still have huge ramifications. Saying that the only reboots were COIE and Flashpoint imo takes a lot of nuance away when I feel post-rebirth feels almost as different from the new 52 as the new 52 did to the post-infinite crisis universe. Yes there were technically only 2 "true" reboots that completely changed the world but that doesn't mean the other reboots are too lesser to also be called reboots.
@@ItsQueenZee those other stuff did change them but I would call them a soft reboot (retconned a few characters and history) rather than a hard reboot like Crisis on Infinite Earths or Flashpoint
@@totalflashaddict Flashpoint is actually considered a soft reboot by the company. Crisis was the only hard reboot. Everything else is more of a historical correction. Historical corrections can be crisis events, but they're not necessarily reboots. They're just *Grant Emerson's* control. Crisis- obliterates the multiverse aside from 6 key earths merged into Earth-Sigma with new conflicting histories being tossed around due to the abundance of Crisis energy. Zero Hour- Hawks merged into one, Superman and Batman's histories corrected to start a decade before the crisis instead of months before. Hippolyta retroactively becomes Wonder Woman of the JSA...further complicating Wonder Woman's messier new history. Infinite Crisis- restored proper silver age history (sans Wonder Woman's marriage to Steve Trevor) and removed Hippolyta as the golden age Wonder Woman, yet maintained Black Canary 2 as the eigth founding member of the JLA...since how else do you get Emerald Archers on board? Final Crisis- fun with contradictions, but this is logically the event that would have resulted in the birth of Jon S. Kent once the threat was passed as during Convergence this is where Brainiac 13 & Telos plucked them from. Flashpoint- initially just meant to be a historical revision, but soft-rebooted everything weirdly. Earth-Sigma now called Earth-1985. Changes mentioned in DDC and Flashpoint Beyond apply to this Earth as well as Prime Earth had Flashpoint not happened. Upon returning from the hypertimeline, Alan Scott reinstated as first hero ib golden age instead of Jay, Diana reinstated as JSA, Clark allowed to be Superboy by name in the past publicly again, time travel allows Roy and Ollie back in 7SV, Adam Waterman restored to golden age All-Stars as Aquaman, Helena W. restored to future JSA, sidekicks old and new return to present day. Nu52 picks up on Earth-0, Prime Earth, not to be confused with Earth-Prime which is us.
It’s so ironic that dc used crisis on infinite earths to make things easier to understand. But in reality, especially with the advent of the internet…the pre-crisis continuity was easier to understand!
Donna Troy's biggest problem is that she has no roots as a character. Imagine Superman but without a Clark Kent upbringing, or Batman without a Bruce Wayne tragic backstory; they're just characters you can't possibly give a damn about. Here's how I'd do Donna Troy: she was a teen runaway that was injured in a burning building (she probably could have escaped but she was too busy making sure every other runaway got out), Wonder Woman took her to Themyscira for some of their high-tech healing, and while she was there Donna saw a better way of living. Rather than stay on Themyscira, she felt she had to go back to America and teach about what she saw, so Athena picked her as her champion. She doesn't have Wonder Woman's insane fighting prowess but is a better tactician; her lasso calms rage; nobody can perceive Wonder Girl as Donna Troy unless she wants them to (and that's something Athena did for Odysseus so it's even a gift we know Athena can bestow). Donna Troy tends to have crappy low-paying jobs; in her off hours she's either combing the streets looking for runaways and trying to get them the help they need, or building a Web site dedicated to her "fiction" about a realm of warrior women (thus indirectly teaching Amazon ways of living).
@@ItsQueenZee Thanks! I'm a traditionalist, and I haven't forgotten that Wonder Girl's original origin was that she was rescued from a burning building. (Except in that version, she was rescued as an infant, so she was the blankest of blank slates.) I'd just like some version of Donna Troy where I know what makes her tick, and maybe I can get behind what she's doing.
This won't ever happen because Warner Bros rarely ever does what the fans want. And the Superman and Lois writers probably just want to focus on finishing their storylines for their final season. But I would give anything for one more multiverse crossover involving most of the DCTV shows like Gotham with David Mazouz as Batman, Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman and Birds of Prey (never watched the last two but hear me out) and especially the ones that were unfairly cancelled: Legends of Tomorrow, Stargirl, Powerless and I didn't watch it but also Swamp Thing. And I heard from the actress who played the tituar Naomi wanted to meet Superman despite being in a universe seperate from the ACTUAL Superman. Finally, I would have the crossover end by having all of these shows take place in the same universe like Crisis on Infinite Earths. Except for some shows that would contradict the timeline like Smallville and Gotham, obviously. The whole point of all these projects staying separate in its' own universe was stand out on their own, not relying on another show's popularity and messing up the timeline of other shows. But they're all over now and some characters in some universes don't exist; they might as well break reality and make them cohabitate in the same world! Their respective networks clearly don't give a shit about them. But the writers do! Seeing Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman, the Earth Prime Justice League, the Earth 2 JSA, the Titans, the Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing and Powerless retconned to be in the same world would be perfect for me! And they could also return to this universe in future projects once in a while like the DCAU! And it has to made by competent people who respect each of these shows. With better writing, direction, VFX, etc. Smallville has an animated series in the works; maybe it could start from there! And the crew making the show, mainly Michael Rosenbaum, is close with James Gunn. But I'd rather the entire story be a miniseries branded as Elseworlds as James Gunn put it instead of just a storyline on Superman and Lois.
If Plastic Man has a million fans, then I'm one of them. If Plastic Man has one fan, then I'm THAT ONE. If Plastic Man has no fans, that means I'm dead
@@ItsQueenZeeNever mind, I understand it now. I was just confused of Cyborg being the founding member of JL in new 52. The biggest confusion was the multiple variation of teen titans, like Tim should only be part of young justice and Damian's teen titans team should be named differently or at least called Newer teen titan(idk)
I read Zero Hour, Hal's (as what is revealed is a possession by Parallax) the villain. Hawk (aka The Monarch) becomes Extant and works for Hal (?). The JSA is killed off. They ruined Dr. Fate & screwed up Hawkman even more. They even came up with some convoluted story (that story was never explained) that Joe Chill didn't kill Bruce Wayne's parents. The end result? Hal may have been responsible for the creation of the multiverse at the Dawn of Time. Nothing really happened to be honest.
@laverdadescatolica5 Hawkman they took every origin of the character from GA to post-crisis and said "yeah, they all happened", with no honest explanation. Geoff Johns sorts it out eventually years later in JSA if memory serves.Dr. Fate, well it was the 90s so they melted down the helmet and gave it to another guy who had no access to Nabu he had a gold knife etc. I honestly have no clue how the classic Fate came back.
@laverdadescatolica5 They simplified Hawkman's and Hawkgirl's by making them the reincarnations of an ancient Egyptians who were altered by exposure to Nth Metal. Due to that, every time they die they are reborn with all of the memories of their previous lives. As an example, in one life they were the western heroes Nighthawk and Cinnamon. Hawkman is one of the best fighters in the DC Universe because over the centuries he was lived in just about every country on Earth (at one point he was travelling around to find all of his gravestones). You can hand him any weapon and he is skilled in its use. This also includes various martial arts.
@@ItsQueenZee Well, technically Wolfman didn’t do anything to Donna at first, which is the problem lol. He just kept on trucking with his Titans run like the reboot didn’t affect them. I do have a bit of a larger place in my heart for Simone’s Wondy run though, I enjoy when Diana can have a bigger sense of humor.
@@Kade_Kapes Simone's run unfortunately didn't hit for me like it has for others😔. Post-infinite-crisis wondy was just not for me. Love Rucka's run so much though, and Jiminez and Luke's too.
@@ItsQueenZee I get that, Amazons Attack and all that. I wasn’t a big fan of Luke’s tbh. And I can’t really forgive him for being the one to coin the “Trinity” concept, which I used to love, but I feel has brought nothing but harm to Diana since. I don’t think Tom King has gone a single issue of WW without bringing up Superman and Batman yet, and now Diana has a daughter. Why? Is it because it would move her story forward? Nope, it’s so she can hang out with Batman and Superman’s kids. Smh
@@Kade_Kapes I like King's run a lot but I do have to see if Trinity will really do anything aside from be a backup story character to complete the Damian and Jon trio. And yeah, overall the trinity concept has definitely hurt Diana a lot I think, by seemingly giving her importance so DC can just ignore her and focuses more on supes and bats while saying "but look we love her just as much!!!"
Concerning the Matrix Version of Supergirl, that came about due to an attempt to fix the Legion's Continuity problems. To fix the Legion, they revealed that the Superboy in the Legion was not Superman as a teenager. Instead, he was from a Pocket Universe created by the Time Trapper (an old enemy of The Legion of Super-Heroes). The Pocket Universe only had two worlds, Earth and Krypton. Every time Superboy came to the Legion he actually travelled from the Pocket Universe to the real 30th Century, and the same when the Legion travelled to the past. Eventually, the Legion discovered the truth, and the story ended with Superboy giving his life to save the Pocket Universe. The Pocket Universe was still out there, and it turned out that that world's Lex Luthor released some Phantom Zone Criminals who laid the world to waste. To fight them, he created a creature of Protomatter using the DNA of Lana Lang and sent her to go to the regular DCU to get the help from Superman. They both returned to the Pocket Universe and found that there was no life remaining except for the Phantom Zone Criminals. Left with no choice, Superman executed them due to the danger they presented (if they had found a way to the Regular DC Universe they would have killed everyone). After that, Superman returned to the Regular DCU with the protomatter creature who became known as Matrix. Later, Matrix merged with a young woman named Linda Danvers who was dying. The above is the result of trying to fix the damage that was done to The Legion of Super-Heroes by "Crisis on Infinite Earths." Unfortunately, when it comes to fixing the Legion's continuity...you ain't seen nothing yet. BTW, I don't fault the Legion's Creative Team for the problems with the Legion, it is the result of directives from on-high with the Creative Team just doing the best they could. I've compared what was done to the Legion to the Creative Teams of "Star Trek" suddenly being told that James T. Kirk never existed and to deal with it. Then, each time you come up with a workable fix you have to change it once again.
At least Johns finally fixed it with Retroboot and retroactively just turned the Elseworld's story Supergirl: Wings into canon for the angelic Linda Danvers since there was no logical way that protoplasmic Mae could exist following the restoration of proper Silver Age history (sans retaining Black Canary 2 as founding leaguer and Diana's marriage to Steve being reinstated) so Matrix being a fallen angel cursed to live as a human who was a fan of Supergirl wound up being far easier to explain.
@@Superlad9494 I haven't read that but it sounds good. The Matrix Supergirl is the only version that liked and I was sad to see her head off to parts unknown and then being deleted from existence. She was the most interesting version of Supergirl, and the most human. One thing Geoff Johns is good at is doing retcons that make it look like the error that needed correction was part of a plan to happen. In "Green Lantern: Rebirth" he did a good job of fixing the mess that Hal Jordan had become, including explaining why Jordan turned on the Guardians, why he was chosen to become the new Spectre, why he had white hair despite being under 30, and why the Green Lantern Rings were ineffective against yellow.
@@Solitaire001 basically Hal went "I'm sorry, I was scared and bugged, but I faced my fears finally and now they don't have a ghost of a chance against me!" (Not that they ever did, implied)...and he was forgiven because everyone has one bad day...and if Commissioner Jim Gordon can bounce back from it...Joke's on Ker!
Sorry but this really reads like a lesson from somebody who wasn't there. Easy to judge these decisions from the benefit of hindsight, but reading Byrne's run on Superman as an 80s kid was magic. Yes there were inconsistencies (particularly due to the popularity of the Titans and Batman), but when you read about the design perspective - the notion of Superman being unique and undiluted again (truly the last son of Krypton), it made sense. And I did read Zero Hour, and enjoyed it greatly, again, at the time. Sometimes perspective shifts our take on events, and some things don't necessarily age well, but it's best not to place yourself as so superior to the artform and creators thereof, unless you're creating something that will bring people as much joy.
@@Reynardnoir there is definitely benefit of hindsight but that doesnt necessarily mean you from being able to go "yeah that was stupid af" is just because you werent there. I'm sure Byrne's run was great at the time, but i'm also sure it had detractors. I'm not going to say your opinion is wrong though, since i don't have any strong opinions one way or the other regarding it. I just think it's a lil weird😭
@@ItsQueenZee I hear you, and for sure it had detractors - DC is stuck in this weird generational loop where the kids reading the books grow up, become creators, and replace what's happening currently with their favourite childhood iterations (I love Geoff Johns but he's very guilty of this). The continuity can't take the constant revisions, so management decides to 'clean house' and cause even more problems. DC is so stuck on 85's Crisis model of publishing (as evidenced by the recent animation), that they've painted themselves into more corners and inconsistencies than any other company. So I appreciate your premise. However, these things definitely compounded over time and in the late 80s, the books were so good, and selling so well, that it seemed far less of an issue. Appreciate your comments though.
How does that even make sense? lol. Like, really think about what ya'll just said fr. Stan lee and Marvel's formula have always been to make an ever expanding and ever continuous universe that people could always continue to enjoy and see characters they love continue to evolve down the line, unlike DC comics. Like be ffr right now. DC have always rebooted and rinse and repeated their stories when they didn't know what else to do with the limited used characters they loved to use and fall back on or wrote themselves in a corner and didn't know how to fix it or had no intention to try, so instead they would just reboot, rinse and repeat when the goin got tough. So, really think about that 😂
@@ThorGoatinson It's simple. Silver Age DC comics can be read with pleasure from a literary point of view. From today's perspective, they are very cool psychedelic sci-fi fairy tales. In my opinion, Marvel has nothing close to the level of Green Lantern, JLA, Doom Patrol and especially Flash, maybe Jim Steranko's Nick Fury, but that's the time of the decline of the Silver Age.
@@ThorGoatinsongo truly try and re read any Marvel stuff 73-96, other than a few rare gems, it’s all a slog to get through. You can read classic Batman stuff and it still slaps. And you haven’t read many comics if you don’t know about the many times that marvel has “rinsed and repeated” you are clearly very young, have not read many comics and should not be taken seriously on this topic at all. Do some back issues reading and hit us back then!
@MisterBadman I have read a lot of the older comics from 73-96, bruh, and I for sure know about them doing resets, but their stories have always been coherent and easy to follow seeing as almost everything from each character or team is canon. So, really, it's you who know nothing and need to go either read or re-read those stories if you really believe all you just said. I actively read these stories, so you are wrong, bruh. Like Batman does nothing relevant in his boring as rinse and repeated stories but show why he is just a whack a** trope of resilience and justice, but really he's trash at taking care of his family and making a real change because he is just like his villians a psycho in a bat suit beating on any and everyone because he has nothing better to do other than relieve his parents death as a helpless child. Try again because if he is a bad*** as you think and hold up so well and as smart as people say, why have the so-called "BatGod" or "PrepGod" not paralyzed Joker at the very least or made a prison to hold his most violent rogues or simple idk throw em in the Phantom zone. Just sayin 😂
Darkseid said a bunch of mean things and then Superman sang at him. Also an evil metatextual vampire was there too. Didn't do any universe resets or anything like that.
You forgot about pink globular shape shifter Supergirl.(dang it) I READ ZERO HOUR, was at the ‘93 Comicon , still have a signed(by Dan Jurgens” Zero Hour #0 Ashcan. Paralax? C’mon, COIE is ok? But you gon’ poo poo ZH?? That zero hour stuff is great fun and still more readable than Spidey from ‘76
I liked the Matrix Supergirl. In the excellent Peter David-written "Supergirl" series, they had her merge with a dying woman named Linda Danvers to save her life, a young woman with a very dark history. The tagline for the series was: They told her to get a life...they didn't say whose.
This is way l prefer invincible or Marvel since if we talk about marvel they didn't reboot their universe so much they only did it once. But with DC damn is literally they rebooted everything and reset it everything every time they can and is streesful to be honest is like. DC: oh hey do you remember that Superman was the only Kryptonian alive? Well we lied there is actually another one but she is his cousin. Reader: ok l buy that l like her. 5 years later. DC: hey remember that Thomas and Martha wayne were happy? Well in this new universe Thomas cheats Martha with other girls Reader: oh ok l get it is another universe so it's okay. 6 years later. DC: hey remember that during the crisis on infinite earths there was only one earth at the end? Well we lied again there is always has been more earths the multiverse never died. Reader: wait what? 2 years more. DC: hey remember that there was a second earth where Power Girl exists and it is actually Kara zor-el from that reality but being an adult woman now? Yeah now she is on Earth 0. Reader: wait l though her home was earth 2 why she hasn't go back there yet? DC: because reasons and because we demanded it. Reader:😐😐😐😐😐. 1 year later. DC: hey remember that the joker was dead? Well guess what he is actually alive and the other joker was actually an impostor. Reader: what's in the F***? You get rip of him already would you? DC: Nope. 4 years later. DC: hey remember that in flashpoint everyone is wiped out of existence and the flashpoint never happend because barry fixed? Guess what? Thomas wayne survives the flashpoint and comes back now staying in Earth 0 and ended up teaming up with Bane who kills alfred. Reader: wait a minute what? Hey yo what the f****? in a possible future. DC: hey remember that Wonder woman has a unique Origin coming from an island full of women with a sister called nubia? Guess what? She is now have 12 secret more sisters more powerful than her because when they born accidentally they recieve Super powers from the Olympus and dissapeared and Diana in her all years of her existence and a full centurie never mentioned them because her Mother never told her for some reason oh and she has a brother Male Amazon who was send to live a normal lives for being a Male but now she meets him. Reader:..................Whaaaaaaaaaat???? DC: oh yeah l almost forgot Batman parents are alive because the reality broke again. Reader: 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 whaaaat do you meeean. Yep that's how l feel sometimes very streesful and annoyed. But that doesn't mean l hate DC at all l still like characters like Wonder woman and Supergirl or red hood.
The con with Marvel not rebooting shite is that the weirdest random shite is still canon even if we don't bring it up. Gotta wait for some writer to remember it happened to retcon it out.
Yeah Marvel won’t let their characters Like DC break their status quos. Only diff is it’s “all the same world”. Both companies need to do what the Indies do and have a beginning middle and end AND then follow through w/ the next line of characters. Funny thing is DC been having the recipe for this w/ how many generations of heroes they have like the Flash Family or different GL’s etc so they gotta stop D-riding the silver & bronze ages
Superma and Batman were not OG Justice Society, don’t thin Dianna was either. Gardner Fox and his Big ol’ Brain!! First mistake, numbering the first universe as earth 2. I also have my pocket dimension copies I brought back to Earth TRUE, to prove you WRONG! If there’s not a Multiversity chart showing all 104 universes/negatives included in this vid, then you my friend are a Homunculus from a napsack dementia. We know you LOVE it!!
The original reason for the numbering was in order of discovery. The first person to travel from one Earth to another was The Flash (Barry Allen) so his Earth was dubbed Earth-One, and the Earth he travelled to was Earth-Two. Next was Earth-Three. After than, the naming broke down and the designation were based on a theme for the most part (such as Earths S, X, C, C-, D, and Prime) and then there were Earths Four and Six.
@@Solitaire001 it was actually supposed to be the other way around though, Infinite Crisis made it quite clear that the only reason other than Editorial "driving us Bats" was that the JSA's just too nice so they let it slide...and that is a direct quote from Superman.
Bring back the original Pre-crisis Earth-One Earth-Two and other worlds. Dc ruin alan scott,Jonathan kent and others. The original creators would be horrified how they messed up everything
They tried during DDC, but it had to be reinstated because it would have caused Barry Allen to be let off the hook...and only Hal Jordan's allowed to be absolved that way because he's been a ghost.
@ItsQueenZee why was there a comics, animated and live action crisis on infinite earths which each had no effect on each other, making it seem like there's 3 multiverses
@@TheDarkKnight-o2z generally when it comes to adaptations you're supposed to ignore what multiversal events mean for the comics continuity. It's confusing but that's just how the cookie crumbles.
God. I love dc reboots as a concept. Clean up the timeline. Tell some new stories. Integrate classic characters. But every single time I feel like they find a new way to Jack it all up
Tell me about it😮💨
The problem is: DC doesn't go far enough. With the original Crisis they tried to keep some of the old continuity, which led to problems among which that resulted in the end of my favorite comic: Legion of Super-Heroes. "Crisis..." so damaged the Legion that they had to spend issue after issue fixing problem and things got so bad that the Creative Team finally decided to wipe everything out and start from scratch because they couldn't fix the problems. I think if DC had wiped out everything in the original "Crisis..." and then started from scratch it would have eliminated the problems that led to all of the subsequent reboots.
Concerning the Post-Crisis Earth, in "Infinite Crisis" they said that Earth-One was made the template for the Post-Crisis Earth and parts of the other Earths were folded into it. This tied into the problems with Power Girl. Since her original origin couldn't work, they kept changing it. It was finally explained that she should not have survived "Crisis..." but she slipped through the cracks and the universe tried to fit her in as best as it could. In "Infinite Crisis" they restored her to being the cousin of the Earth-Two Superman.
The problem with Donna Troy was that she came about due to a mistake. When they put her into the Teen Titans, they thought she was the teenage sidekick of Wonder Woman. However, she was actually Wonder Woman as a teenager. At one time using magic Wonder Woman would have adventures with her teenage self. However, they came up with a fairly simple origin for her: She was an orphan found by Wonder Woman and taken to be raised by the Amazons. She was granted powers like Wonder Woman can came to Man's World. The problem was when they rebooted Wonder Woman, which made Donna Troy's origin invalid.
That's kind of self fulfilling prophecy. Everything fizzles out eventually. No creative team can keep a book good for all of time.
Eventually you're goong to need a new creative team and new direction.
@@Solitaire001 there was so much Wonder Girl convoluted mess that it's not funny. Even before Donna shows up.
Wonder Woman 110-122 (sans No. 117) is the equivalent of Superboy (Clark Kent) and Aquaboy (Arthur Curry) easy to explain...3/4 of the core Super Friends had careers as youngsters before their adult careers in the league...because logically Batman couldn't, though he did attempt a few escapades ever so often as Flying Fox/Executioner.
Wonder Woman 123-148) Multiverse of Madness alternating with her reformed foe Baroness building the original chronomorphers on the main earth...read Diana's notes in which is which.
The reason I put a star in 117? Doesn't that Wonder Girl story sound...very Donna-ish? Perhaps Donna was "planned" as early as 1960, but was never acknowledged as such until 1964 because most editors and writers were of the same mind as the Amazons about canons...the only ones they cared about go "boom".
I also like to think that with Brave and the Bold 64 and Teen Titans 29 that due to cosmic shenanigans trying to erase Donna on the cover of the latter, that retroactively to sustain her, all Diana's chronomorpher stories+ WW 117 were augmented as Donna appearances without chronomorphers done Supergirl style because Diana, like Clark wouldn't really consider Donna a sidekick if Kara isn't really one either and reprints often justified retcons by augmenting Diana stories such as 117 to be Donna ones.)
and Barry Allen does it again. The unedited stories of Wonder Fam are now Earth 124 though...so that's something.
@@Superlad9494 The real mess with Donna Troy didn't begin until "Crisis on Infinite Earths." They came up with a fairly simple origin that worked: She was an orphan found in a burning building by Wonder Woman. She took Donna to Paradise Island where she was raised by the Amazons and given powers similar to Wonder Woman's. Later, they expanded on her original by having Dick Grayson investigate Donna's origins to find out where she came from (although if they had been friends so long why didn't he investigate sooner?). This gave her a full, logical origin that worked...until "Crisis..." That's where the real mess started.
You forgot the whole other reboot at DC when the company moved to LA and their NYC editorial staff responsible for Infinite Crisis/Flashpoint/New 52 were mostly fired or reassigned, which is why there have been fewer line-wide shakeups since.
"Why does no one ever start reading comic books? Why is our reader base all 30+ years old?" This is why, DC.
Let’s not forgot how after Infinite Crisis DC incorporated the Milestone Universe (Static Shock) into the main one but then they quietly disappeared to the point where Milestone came back with a hard reboot post Rebirth as a separate universe and imprint once again.
You know that episode from It’s Always Sunny that had Charlie freaking over while looking at a bunch of notes on a wall, yeah this is prob what it feel like
DC reboots be like resetting everything and tell newer stories to keep their properties still marketable
Best “short” version to the point explanation I’ve seen! Bravo! ❤
😊😊
I love how batmans lore is so consistent that they didn't even touched him the first time they rebooted the timeline and got someone as insane as grant morrison to make sense of all of it
5:11 Fun fact, that Rubik's Cube is impossible to solve. Green and Blue are opposite colors, in the cube so you can't have a corner with both Green and Blue (Upper corner, closest to the camara on perspective)
Maybe its just a different color scheme, and the centers aren't in the same place where they should be. The first rubiks cubes have this kind of color scheme, with White opposite to red.
The Pre-Crisis DC Multiverse was a triumph. In the Bronze Age, they made Earth-Two as compelling and fully fleshed out as Earth-One. All-Star Squadron then raised this to the level of art, weaving together the entire Golden Age into one rich tapestry. It was amazing. Then they broke it. And it's never been fixed.
This video gets more unhinged and more interesting as it goes on I love this video man 🔥😂❤️
I'm a dedicated Green Lantern reader. I don't remember one single major retcon or reboot . It all just kinda flowed. People don't seem to realize that Parralax actually first appeared waaay back in Green Lantern Corps #224. Geoff Jones definitely expanded the GL continuity yet the road was already layed.
Great job man dc reboots as a whole from crisis on infinite earths to flashpoint to everything as a whole.
😎just doin ma job
@@ItsQueenZee 😎
2 things:
1.) I kinda like New 52. The Johns era Green Lantern already had a rebooted origin for Hal from the Emerald Dawn version. And Aquaman actually was cool for once. The Justice League got some of their greatest hits. Action Comics was a nice way to tell Clark’s past years. And a bunch of other comics were good too. It’s just that the bad stuff managed to stand out because they were that bad.
2.) DCoIE and DKDM were products of Dan DiDio’s cancelled reboot, DC Generation Five. Same reason why we had Future State, Superman & The Authority, and Batman The Detective. So DKDM and DCoIE had some reason to exist, it’s just that they are remnants of something that doesn’t exist anymore in an era where dc is trying to pick up the pieces from that.
I had all four issues of Zero Hour back in the 1990s and read them. It was like the second DC story arc I read other than the Death of Superman.
Truly my worst video yet
if this is your worst then the others must be at least 9.5 out of ten cause this one is a 9
You’re in the thick of it, everybody knows
I think Ganthet's Tale bears a small mention. It retconned the Anti-Monitor's hand from COIE (and other places) as an illusion created by the Guardians themselves and the nature of reality where, due to krona looking back in time, the Anti-Matter universe wasn't created, but the entire universe was reset and "born old", losing billions of years of life.
I read Zero Hour at the time. I thought it was great. I have the old press kit for it.
The reason for CoIE, as with so many of DC's blunders, was Marvel Envy. Marvel was selling better so DC tried to imitate them whenever they could. "Marvel has only a single universe? Well then by god let's pare things down to a single universe as well!"
Underrated ass channel bro this was like if Dunkey reviewed comics
@@sister_ray67 thank you!! I love dunkey so that's a huge compliment
You are doing a phenomenal job.
Thank you for this.
Thank you for the praise!
Listen, I don't want to seem like an um actually guy, but the Silver Age, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Rebirth, Dark Knights Death Metal, and Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths were never reboots. Only Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint were reboots. Lemme explain. In the silver age, they did change universes but it was still within the same continuity, it was just different universes. The continuity of the Golden Age, Silver Age and Bronze Age were in the Pre-Crisis continuity. Then came Crisis on Infinite Earths which rebooted DC for the first time. The continuity after that was called post-crisis (or pre-flashpoint) and when it started it had some continuity problems. So Zero Hour was made which did retcon and fix some continuity problems, but it didn't do a full reboot and all the stories with only a few retcons were still canon to post-crisis. Infinite Crisis, like Zero Hour, changed certain things within the continuity, but again like Zero Hour, it was never a full reboot and we were still in post-crisis but some stuff was different. Then came Flashpoint which rebooted DC for the second time. The continuity after Flashpoint is called the New 52 (or post-flashpoint). A lot of people didn't like the New 52 and they missed the post-crisis continuity. So in 2016, DC created the Rebirth event which restored a lot of post-crisis stories, characters and relationships. This confuses people a lot into thinking that DC was rebooted, but again this wasn't a full reboot. It was more of a soft reboot which drastically changed things. Then came Death Metal and Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths which brought back the multiverse and again restored a lot of post-crisis things, but it never fully rebooted DC.
So while the Silver Age, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Rebirth, Dark Knights Death Metal and Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths all changed a lot of things and retconned certain stuff within the Pre-crisis, post-crisis and New 52 continuities, only Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint actually rebooted DC
All these distinctions to me have always felt very unecessary. Especially when most still have huge ramifications. Saying that the only reboots were COIE and Flashpoint imo takes a lot of nuance away when I feel post-rebirth feels almost as different from the new 52 as the new 52 did to the post-infinite crisis universe.
Yes there were technically only 2 "true" reboots that completely changed the world but that doesn't mean the other reboots are too lesser to also be called reboots.
@@ItsQueenZee those other stuff did change them but I would call them a soft reboot (retconned a few characters and history) rather than a hard reboot like Crisis on Infinite Earths or Flashpoint
@@totalflashaddict Flashpoint is actually considered a soft reboot by the company.
Crisis was the only hard reboot. Everything else is more of a historical correction.
Historical corrections can be crisis events, but they're not necessarily reboots. They're just *Grant Emerson's* control.
Crisis- obliterates the multiverse aside from 6 key earths merged into Earth-Sigma with new conflicting histories being tossed around due to the abundance of Crisis energy.
Zero Hour- Hawks merged into one, Superman and Batman's histories corrected to start a decade before the crisis instead of months before. Hippolyta retroactively becomes Wonder Woman of the JSA...further complicating Wonder Woman's messier new history.
Infinite Crisis- restored proper silver age history (sans Wonder Woman's marriage to Steve Trevor) and removed Hippolyta as the golden age Wonder Woman, yet maintained Black Canary 2 as the eigth founding member of the JLA...since how else do you get Emerald Archers on board?
Final Crisis- fun with contradictions, but this is logically the event that would have resulted in the birth of Jon S. Kent once the threat was passed as during Convergence this is where Brainiac 13 & Telos plucked them from.
Flashpoint- initially just meant to be a historical revision, but soft-rebooted everything weirdly. Earth-Sigma now called Earth-1985. Changes mentioned in DDC and Flashpoint Beyond apply to this Earth as well as Prime Earth had Flashpoint not happened. Upon returning from the hypertimeline, Alan Scott reinstated as first hero ib golden age instead of Jay, Diana reinstated as JSA, Clark allowed to be Superboy by name in the past publicly again, time travel allows Roy and Ollie back in 7SV, Adam Waterman restored to golden age All-Stars as Aquaman, Helena W. restored to future JSA, sidekicks old and new return to present day.
Nu52 picks up on Earth-0, Prime Earth, not to be confused with Earth-Prime which is us.
It’s so ironic that dc used crisis on infinite earths to make things easier to understand. But in reality, especially with the advent of the internet…the pre-crisis continuity was easier to understand!
the multiverse is rad, but, goddamn. No fucking franchise needs *this* much reboots
great video but please add some background music
Donna Troy's biggest problem is that she has no roots as a character. Imagine Superman but without a Clark Kent upbringing, or Batman without a Bruce Wayne tragic backstory; they're just characters you can't possibly give a damn about.
Here's how I'd do Donna Troy: she was a teen runaway that was injured in a burning building (she probably could have escaped but she was too busy making sure every other runaway got out), Wonder Woman took her to Themyscira for some of their high-tech healing, and while she was there Donna saw a better way of living. Rather than stay on Themyscira, she felt she had to go back to America and teach about what she saw, so Athena picked her as her champion. She doesn't have Wonder Woman's insane fighting prowess but is a better tactician; her lasso calms rage; nobody can perceive Wonder Girl as Donna Troy unless she wants them to (and that's something Athena did for Odysseus so it's even a gift we know Athena can bestow).
Donna Troy tends to have crappy low-paying jobs; in her off hours she's either combing the streets looking for runaways and trying to get them the help they need, or building a Web site dedicated to her "fiction" about a realm of warrior women (thus indirectly teaching Amazon ways of living).
This is really damn good!
@@ItsQueenZee Thanks! I'm a traditionalist, and I haven't forgotten that Wonder Girl's original origin was that she was rescued from a burning building. (Except in that version, she was rescued as an infant, so she was the blankest of blank slates.) I'd just like some version of Donna Troy where I know what makes her tick, and maybe I can get behind what she's doing.
This won't ever happen because Warner Bros rarely ever does what the fans want. And the Superman and Lois writers probably just want to focus on finishing their storylines for their final season. But I would give anything for one more multiverse crossover involving most of the DCTV shows like Gotham with David Mazouz as Batman, Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman and Birds of Prey (never watched the last two but hear me out) and especially the ones that were unfairly cancelled: Legends of Tomorrow, Stargirl, Powerless and I didn't watch it but also Swamp Thing. And I heard from the actress who played the tituar Naomi wanted to meet Superman despite being in a universe seperate from the ACTUAL Superman.
Finally, I would have the crossover end by having all of these shows take place in the same universe like Crisis on Infinite Earths. Except for some shows that would contradict the timeline like Smallville and Gotham, obviously. The whole point of all these projects staying separate in its' own universe was stand out on their own, not relying on another show's popularity and messing up the timeline of other shows. But they're all over now and some characters in some universes don't exist; they might as well break reality and make them cohabitate in the same world!
Their respective networks clearly don't give a shit about them. But the writers do! Seeing Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman, the Earth Prime Justice League, the Earth 2 JSA, the Titans, the Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing and Powerless retconned to be in the same world would be perfect for me! And they could also return to this universe in future projects once in a while like the DCAU! And it has to made by competent people who respect each of these shows. With better writing, direction, VFX, etc. Smallville has an animated series in the works; maybe it could start from there! And the crew making the show, mainly Michael Rosenbaum, is close with James Gunn. But I'd rather the entire story be a miniseries branded as Elseworlds as James Gunn put it instead of just a storyline on Superman and Lois.
Friggin' brilliant thumbnail
If Plastic Man has a million fans, then I'm one of them. If Plastic Man has one fan, then I'm THAT ONE. If Plastic Man has no fans, that means I'm dead
I'm still confuse about the history of the teen titans. Like cyborg, robin(grayson), kid flash(like which one) just so much more confusion
What specifically confuses u?
@@ItsQueenZeeNever mind, I understand it now. I was just confused of Cyborg being the founding member of JL in new 52. The biggest confusion was the multiple variation of teen titans, like Tim should only be part of young justice and Damian's teen titans team should be named differently or at least called Newer teen titan(idk)
I read Zero Hour, Hal's (as what is revealed is a possession by Parallax) the villain. Hawk (aka The Monarch) becomes Extant and works for Hal (?). The JSA is killed off. They ruined Dr. Fate & screwed up Hawkman even more. They even came up with some convoluted story (that story was never explained) that Joe Chill didn't kill Bruce Wayne's parents. The end result? Hal may have been responsible for the creation of the multiverse at the Dawn of Time. Nothing really happened to be honest.
@laverdadescatolica5 Hawkman they took every origin of the character from GA to post-crisis and said "yeah, they all happened", with no honest explanation. Geoff Johns sorts it out eventually years later in JSA if memory serves.Dr. Fate, well it was the 90s so they melted down the helmet and gave it to another guy who had no access to Nabu he had a gold knife etc. I honestly have no clue how the classic Fate came back.
@laverdadescatolica5 lol. He's a Lord of Order, so yeah mystical. But alien retcon could be done, why not it's comics.
@laverdadescatolica5 They simplified Hawkman's and Hawkgirl's by making them the reincarnations of an ancient Egyptians who were altered by exposure to Nth Metal. Due to that, every time they die they are reborn with all of the memories of their previous lives. As an example, in one life they were the western heroes Nighthawk and Cinnamon.
Hawkman is one of the best fighters in the DC Universe because over the centuries he was lived in just about every country on Earth (at one point he was travelling around to find all of his gravestones). You can hand him any weapon and he is skilled in its use. This also includes various martial arts.
Not "just because." Because DC hasn't been able to outsell Marvel, no matter what they've done.
Don’t let that boy zee get his hands on an editing software cause then it’s up 🙏🏼
That is a confusing continuity thank you for the information. New knowledge unlocked.
I did! Bought every book. Will admit, looking back it was not all that great of a finale
Great rant about an infuriating convulted topic. 9/10 though, needs way more rambling and sidetracking 😂
To be fair to post-crisis Wonder Woman, most of the continuity errors were the fault of other writers, instead of George Pèrez, who was the goat.
Totally agree. Perez's run is still to this day probably wonder woman's best run. Dont know why Wolfman and the Byrne did all that to Donna tho😭
@@ItsQueenZee Well, technically Wolfman didn’t do anything to Donna at first, which is the problem lol. He just kept on trucking with his Titans run like the reboot didn’t affect them.
I do have a bit of a larger place in my heart for Simone’s Wondy run though, I enjoy when Diana can have a bigger sense of humor.
@@Kade_Kapes Simone's run unfortunately didn't hit for me like it has for others😔. Post-infinite-crisis wondy was just not for me. Love Rucka's run so much though, and Jiminez and Luke's too.
@@ItsQueenZee I get that, Amazons Attack and all that.
I wasn’t a big fan of Luke’s tbh. And I can’t really forgive him for being the one to coin the “Trinity” concept, which I used to love, but I feel has brought nothing but harm to Diana since.
I don’t think Tom King has gone a single issue of WW without bringing up Superman and Batman yet, and now Diana has a daughter. Why? Is it because it would move her story forward? Nope, it’s so she can hang out with Batman and Superman’s kids. Smh
@@Kade_Kapes I like King's run a lot but I do have to see if Trinity will really do anything aside from be a backup story character to complete the Damian and Jon trio.
And yeah, overall the trinity concept has definitely hurt Diana a lot I think, by seemingly giving her importance so DC can just ignore her and focuses more on supes and bats while saying "but look we love her just as much!!!"
Concerning the Matrix Version of Supergirl, that came about due to an attempt to fix the Legion's Continuity problems. To fix the Legion, they revealed that the Superboy in the Legion was not Superman as a teenager. Instead, he was from a Pocket Universe created by the Time Trapper (an old enemy of The Legion of Super-Heroes). The Pocket Universe only had two worlds, Earth and Krypton. Every time Superboy came to the Legion he actually travelled from the Pocket Universe to the real 30th Century, and the same when the Legion travelled to the past. Eventually, the Legion discovered the truth, and the story ended with Superboy giving his life to save the Pocket Universe.
The Pocket Universe was still out there, and it turned out that that world's Lex Luthor released some Phantom Zone Criminals who laid the world to waste. To fight them, he created a creature of Protomatter using the DNA of Lana Lang and sent her to go to the regular DCU to get the help from Superman. They both returned to the Pocket Universe and found that there was no life remaining except for the Phantom Zone Criminals. Left with no choice, Superman executed them due to the danger they presented (if they had found a way to the Regular DC Universe they would have killed everyone). After that, Superman returned to the Regular DCU with the protomatter creature who became known as Matrix. Later, Matrix merged with a young woman named Linda Danvers who was dying.
The above is the result of trying to fix the damage that was done to The Legion of Super-Heroes by "Crisis on Infinite Earths." Unfortunately, when it comes to fixing the Legion's continuity...you ain't seen nothing yet. BTW, I don't fault the Legion's Creative Team for the problems with the Legion, it is the result of directives from on-high with the Creative Team just doing the best they could.
I've compared what was done to the Legion to the Creative Teams of "Star Trek" suddenly being told that James T. Kirk never existed and to deal with it. Then, each time you come up with a workable fix you have to change it once again.
At least Johns finally fixed it with Retroboot and retroactively just turned the Elseworld's story Supergirl: Wings into canon for the angelic Linda Danvers since there was no logical way that protoplasmic Mae could exist following the restoration of proper Silver Age history (sans retaining Black Canary 2 as founding leaguer and Diana's marriage to Steve being reinstated) so Matrix being a fallen angel cursed to live as a human who was a fan of Supergirl wound up being far easier to explain.
@@Superlad9494 I haven't read that but it sounds good. The Matrix Supergirl is the only version that liked and I was sad to see her head off to parts unknown and then being deleted from existence. She was the most interesting version of Supergirl, and the most human.
One thing Geoff Johns is good at is doing retcons that make it look like the error that needed correction was part of a plan to happen. In "Green Lantern: Rebirth" he did a good job of fixing the mess that Hal Jordan had become, including explaining why Jordan turned on the Guardians, why he was chosen to become the new Spectre, why he had white hair despite being under 30, and why the Green Lantern Rings were ineffective against yellow.
@@Solitaire001 basically Hal went "I'm sorry, I was scared and bugged, but I faced my fears finally and now they don't have a ghost of a chance against me!" (Not that they ever did, implied)...and he was forgiven because everyone has one bad day...and if Commissioner Jim Gordon can bounce back from it...Joke's on Ker!
Does Marvel have problems like this or is it just DC?
Nah Marvel hasnt rebooted yet
I read Zero Hour when it was released. I also have the Omnibus.
Nope. Don't believe you. Never happened. You were actually put into a pocket dimension with false memories.
@@ItsQueenZee waverider is my avatar on the DCU app.
Sorry but this really reads like a lesson from somebody who wasn't there. Easy to judge these decisions from the benefit of hindsight, but reading Byrne's run on Superman as an 80s kid was magic. Yes there were inconsistencies (particularly due to the popularity of the Titans and Batman), but when you read about the design perspective - the notion of Superman being unique and undiluted again (truly the last son of Krypton), it made sense. And I did read Zero Hour, and enjoyed it greatly, again, at the time. Sometimes perspective shifts our take on events, and some things don't necessarily age well, but it's best not to place yourself as so superior to the artform and creators thereof, unless you're creating something that will bring people as much joy.
@@Reynardnoir there is definitely benefit of hindsight but that doesnt necessarily mean you from being able to go "yeah that was stupid af" is just because you werent there. I'm sure Byrne's run was great at the time, but i'm also sure it had detractors.
I'm not going to say your opinion is wrong though, since i don't have any strong opinions one way or the other regarding it. I just think it's a lil weird😭
@@ItsQueenZee I hear you, and for sure it had detractors - DC is stuck in this weird generational loop where the kids reading the books grow up, become creators, and replace what's happening currently with their favourite childhood iterations (I love Geoff Johns but he's very guilty of this). The continuity can't take the constant revisions, so management decides to 'clean house' and cause even more problems. DC is so stuck on 85's Crisis model of publishing (as evidenced by the recent animation), that they've painted themselves into more corners and inconsistencies than any other company. So I appreciate your premise. However, these things definitely compounded over time and in the late 80s, the books were so good, and selling so well, that it seemed far less of an issue. Appreciate your comments though.
Finally some respect on plastic man’s name
A LOT happened during zero hour
You forgot final crisis. Final Crisis was unhinged and hard to follow.
Final Crisis wasnt a reboot so that's why i didnt talk about it
@@ItsQueenZee totally fair. do you think Grant Morrison would be less trippy if he was on drugs?
@@davidraley3054 you're saying this like they arent always on drugs
@@ItsQueenZee Thorazine
DC's Silver Age comics are still holding up well, Marvel's Silver Age - not necessarily. I blame Stan Lee and Marvel's method.
Oh yeah it's pretty tough reading a lot of those
How does that even make sense? lol. Like, really think about what ya'll just said fr. Stan lee and Marvel's formula have always been to make an ever expanding and ever continuous universe that people could always continue to enjoy and see characters they love continue to evolve down the line, unlike DC comics. Like be ffr right now. DC have always rebooted and rinse and repeated their stories when they didn't know what else to do with the limited used characters they loved to use and fall back on or wrote themselves in a corner and didn't know how to fix it or had no intention to try, so instead they would just reboot, rinse and repeat when the goin got tough. So, really think about that 😂
@@ThorGoatinson It's simple. Silver Age DC comics can be read with pleasure from a literary point of view. From today's perspective, they are very cool psychedelic sci-fi fairy tales. In my opinion, Marvel has nothing close to the level of Green Lantern, JLA, Doom Patrol and especially Flash, maybe Jim Steranko's Nick Fury, but that's the time of the decline of the Silver Age.
@@ThorGoatinsongo truly try and re read any Marvel stuff 73-96, other than a few rare gems, it’s all a slog to get through. You can read classic Batman stuff and it still slaps. And you haven’t read many comics if you don’t know about the many times that marvel has “rinsed and repeated” you are clearly very young, have not read many comics and should not be taken seriously on this topic at all.
Do some back issues reading and hit us back then!
@MisterBadman I have read a lot of the older comics from 73-96, bruh, and I for sure know about them doing resets, but their stories have always been coherent and easy to follow seeing as almost everything from each character or team is canon. So, really, it's you who know nothing and need to go either read or re-read those stories if you really believe all you just said. I actively read these stories, so you are wrong, bruh. Like Batman does nothing relevant in his boring as rinse and repeated stories but show why he is just a whack a** trope of resilience and justice, but really he's trash at taking care of his family and making a real change because he is just like his villians a psycho in a bat suit beating on any and everyone because he has nothing better to do other than relieve his parents death as a helpless child. Try again because if he is a bad*** as you think and hold up so well and as smart as people say, why have the so-called "BatGod" or "PrepGod" not paralyzed Joker at the very least or made a prison to hold his most violent rogues or simple idk throw em in the Phantom zone. Just sayin 😂
So, what the heck was Final Crisis?
Darkseid said a bunch of mean things and then Superman sang at him. Also an evil metatextual vampire was there too.
Didn't do any universe resets or anything like that.
zero hour is important , esp. for hawkman fans
I read Zero Hour… It wasnt very good😔
Why isn’t their more likes!!
You forgot about pink globular shape shifter Supergirl.(dang it)
I READ ZERO HOUR, was at the ‘93 Comicon , still have a signed(by Dan Jurgens” Zero Hour #0 Ashcan. Paralax? C’mon, COIE is ok? But you gon’ poo poo ZH?? That zero hour stuff is great fun and still more readable than Spidey from ‘76
I liked the Matrix Supergirl. In the excellent Peter David-written "Supergirl" series, they had her merge with a dying woman named Linda Danvers to save her life, a young woman with a very dark history. The tagline for the series was: They told her to get a life...they didn't say whose.
This is way l prefer invincible or Marvel since if we talk about marvel they didn't reboot their universe so much they only did it once. But with DC damn is literally they rebooted everything and reset it everything every time they can and is streesful to be honest is like.
DC: oh hey do you remember that Superman was the only Kryptonian alive? Well we lied there is actually another one but she is his cousin.
Reader: ok l buy that l like her.
5 years later.
DC: hey remember that Thomas and Martha wayne were happy? Well in this new universe Thomas cheats Martha with other girls Reader: oh ok l get it is another universe so it's okay.
6 years later.
DC: hey remember that during the crisis on infinite earths there was only one earth at the end? Well we lied again there is always has been more earths the multiverse never died.
Reader: wait what?
2 years more.
DC: hey remember that there was a second earth where Power Girl exists and it is actually Kara zor-el from that reality but being an adult woman now? Yeah now she is on Earth 0. Reader: wait l though her home was earth 2 why she hasn't go back there yet?
DC: because reasons and because we demanded it.
Reader:😐😐😐😐😐.
1 year later.
DC: hey remember that the joker was dead? Well guess what he is actually alive and the other joker was actually an impostor.
Reader: what's in the F***? You get rip of him already would you?
DC: Nope.
4 years later.
DC: hey remember that in flashpoint everyone is wiped out of existence and the flashpoint never happend because barry fixed? Guess what? Thomas wayne survives the flashpoint and comes back now staying in Earth 0 and ended up teaming up with Bane who kills alfred.
Reader: wait a minute what? Hey yo what the f****?
in a possible future.
DC: hey remember that Wonder woman has a unique Origin coming from an island full of women with a sister called nubia? Guess what? She is now have 12 secret more sisters more powerful than her because when they born accidentally they recieve Super powers from the Olympus and dissapeared and Diana in her all years of her existence and a full centurie never mentioned them because her Mother never told her for some reason oh and she has a brother Male Amazon who was send to live a normal lives for being a Male but now she meets him.
Reader:..................Whaaaaaaaaaat????
DC: oh yeah l almost forgot Batman parents are alive because the reality broke again.
Reader: 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 whaaaat do you meeean.
Yep that's how l feel sometimes very streesful and annoyed. But that doesn't mean l hate DC at all l still like characters like Wonder woman and Supergirl or red hood.
The con with Marvel not rebooting shite is that the weirdest random shite is still canon even if we don't bring it up. Gotta wait for some writer to remember it happened to retcon it out.
Yeah Marvel won’t let their characters Like DC break their status quos. Only diff is it’s “all the same world”. Both companies need to do what the Indies do and have a beginning middle and end AND then follow through w/ the next line of characters. Funny thing is DC been having the recipe for this w/ how many generations of heroes they have like the Flash Family or different GL’s etc so they gotta stop D-riding the silver & bronze ages
Superma and Batman were not OG Justice Society, don’t thin Dianna was either. Gardner Fox and his Big ol’ Brain!!
First mistake, numbering the first universe as earth 2.
I also have my pocket dimension copies I brought back to Earth TRUE, to prove you WRONG!
If there’s not a Multiversity chart showing all 104 universes/negatives included in this vid, then you my friend are a Homunculus from a napsack dementia.
We know you LOVE it!!
The Big 3 were honoraries at first, but Diana got a secretary job to get in more books.
The original reason for the numbering was in order of discovery. The first person to travel from one Earth to another was The Flash (Barry Allen) so his Earth was dubbed Earth-One, and the Earth he travelled to was Earth-Two. Next was Earth-Three. After than, the naming broke down and the designation were based on a theme for the most part (such as Earths S, X, C, C-, D, and Prime) and then there were Earths Four and Six.
@@Solitaire001 it was actually supposed to be the other way around though, Infinite Crisis made it quite clear that the only reason other than Editorial "driving us Bats" was that the JSA's just too nice so they let it slide...and that is a direct quote from Superman.
Common Plastic Man W
Bring back the original Pre-crisis Earth-One Earth-Two and other worlds. Dc ruin alan scott,Jonathan kent and others. The original creators would be horrified how they messed up everything
Dont diss my boy barry
I love barry nooooop
I wish they made new 52 non canon.
They tried during DDC, but it had to be reinstated because it would have caused Barry Allen to be let off the hook...and only Hal Jordan's allowed to be absolved that way because he's been a ghost.
just because = dc wanted more sales
I read Zero Hour. 😂
i loved new 52. wonder woman and superman was a better couple than lois and superman.
Doesn't DC also have like 3 different multiverses now..?
Just one. Though sometimes they explore the "omniverse" as a concept.
@ItsQueenZee why was there a comics, animated and live action crisis on infinite earths which each had no effect on each other, making it seem like there's 3 multiverses
@@TheDarkKnight-o2z generally when it comes to adaptations you're supposed to ignore what multiversal events mean for the comics continuity. It's confusing but that's just how the cookie crumbles.
zero hour is peak because it gave us kyle rayner how dare you skip it
Kyle Rayner debuted as Green Lantern in "Green Lantern" #50, a few months before "Zero Hour."
Cool
I hate Plastic Man
GASP
In my opinion, after the Crisis, Hawkman's lore made the least sense.
Oh yeah that's why i didnt even touch on him
Sorry but sick of all these dumb changes that destroy much of the Hero base.Start with issue number.1 again.Stop adding salt to the wounds.
Run Barry, RUn, bring us back to New52, i can't stand modern woke DC
The New 52 wasn't good either
didn't care for flashpoint. ignoring it.