Mormon Founder's Fabricated “First Visions” (Joseph Smith: Part One)
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- The disagreement is not typically so much about the events as much as the interpretation of events.
*Why I left the Mormon Church: (www.mormontrut...)
*Did Joseph Smith make up the first vision? Did he hold it sacred for over a decade?
*Did the Lord prepare for the 116 lost pages of The Book of Mormon? Did Joseph Smith panic when the pages were lost because he knew he would not be able to reproduce them?
*Was Joseph Smith’s treasure digging an honest way to earn a wage, and evidence he was being prepared by the Lord to accept the angel Moroni? Was it an early sign he was good at spinning lies to convince people to give him money and power?
These are the questions I investigate here, but ultimately it is up for you to decide.
Many links below are Wikipedia links. Please keep in mind Wikipedia is a website that summarizes information and links to primary sources. I suggest clicking through to as many primary sources as possible after reading a cursory summary of these topics.
*Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman, the biography written with a faithful interpretation of events: (www.amazon.com...)
*No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie,the biography written with a skeptical interpretation of events: (shorturl.at/mnsyU)
*Mormon movie about the life of Joseph Smith: ( • Joseph Smith: The Prop... )
*Wikipedia page about Joseph Smith: (en.wikipedia.o...)
*Wikipedia page about the first vision: (en.wikipedia.o...)
*Wikipedia page about Joseph Smith’s run-ins with the law: (en.wikipedia.o...)
*Wikipedia page about Archaeology and The Book of Mormon: (en.wikipedia.o...)
*Wikipedia page about Reformed Egyptian: (en.wikipedia.o...)
*Wikipedia page about Martin Harris
*Church Website summarizing Joseph Smith’s 1826 Treasure Digging Trial: (www.churchofje...)
*Church Website summarizing Joseph Smith’s Treasure Seeking: (www.churchofje...)
*CES Letter, a common tool used to deconstruct Mormonism: (cesletter.org/...)
*My book, How to Leave the Mormon Church: An Exmormon's Guide for Rebuilding After Religion (www.amazon.com...)
*My Mormon wedding explained video ( • Mormon Temple Weddings... )
*My Mormon endowment explained video ( • Secret Mormon Temple C... )
*My Mormon garments explained video ( • Mormon Garments Explained )
*My Mormon faith crisis ( • Why I Left the Mormon ... )
- where to find me -
Patreon (ad free & bonus content): shorturl.at/8bpnw
TikTok: / alyssadgrenfell
Instagram: / alyssadgrenfell
Blog: www.mormontrut...
Email me: alyssadgrenfell@gmail.com
- support my channel -
Venmo: venmo.com/u/Al...
Girl it’s 2.10 am where I am. I did not need to see a 1hour 33 minute documentary on my current hyper fixation. I guess I’m only going to bed at 3.45 though
😅😅 I’m so sorry but I hope it’s worth it.
Lmao same
mood
Mood
Haha same
I honestly dont know why there are not docuseries on Joseph Smith. It feels like just the truth would change how the public views this religion
Most already have negative feelings towards it.
the book of mormon musical helps but a whole documentary would be great
Who would produce such a series and why? There are only two camps that would spend money, time and effort on a series about Joseph Smith; the true-believing Mormons who would incorporate extreme bias, and ex-Mormons who are bitter and resentful. No one else has enough perspective to even comprehend the subculture.
@@woodystube1000 he created one of the most successful cults in the world, the church has billions of dollars, and joseph smith was a con man and a criminal. that would be an interesting documentary for anyone. I'm not ex mormon and I'm interested lol
@@annieonpaper Very valid points. It is a uniquely American religion, and the history is truly fascinating.
We were raised in a lie. Surrounded by it. Crying is a healthy reaction when discovering the truth. You are doing so well and helping so many.
God is real even though Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
@@joeking433prove it.
@@rita2774
Do you actually think that he could ever present anything to you that would convince you? What I think is interesting is that you feel the need to challenge him to prove it. He believes you don't why can't you just let it be?
Alyssa, I left the "church" about 25 years ago. I still get upset about how much time I waisted on the belief. I remember how much I cried with a gut wrenching and heartbroken realization of spoon-fed lies. I feel sorry for my believing family, who are so naive they are prone to scammers. Seeing you cry, shows us how sincere you are. Your devotion to lovingly speak the truth of the Mormon church is admirable. I hope you touch the hearts of many members, so they can do their own research and find the truth underneath all the lies.
❤️❤️❤️
Sadly though, most Mo's will never question the cult of Mormonism. It is heartbreaking.
I'm european, have never even met a single mormon person but I am captivated by your story telling! Thank you so much and please keep it on🔥
There are quite a few Mormons out there here in Germany.
They are called members of the "Kirche Jesu Christi der Heiligen der Letzten Tage". They refute the description Mormons.
I don't know what it's like all throughout other parts of Europe, but I was in Denmark and got approached by 2 Mormon missionaries on the street. They introduced themselves in very broken Danish and got super excited when I told them I'm from the US like they were lol. I was raised Mormon so it was even more random and weird!
@@jennlody8306 I think we don't have a lot of mormon in Europe, at least I never seen one in France and never heard of it before seeing an viral American tiktok interviewing mormon, we mostly have Jehovah witnesses here
@@helgardhossain9038 Interesting! We have occasional Jehova's witnesses knocking on our doors (Switzerland) but so far never mormons. But I just googled it and turns out there's this gigantic mormon temple just 5km from here! So apparently I was just ignorant about it until now haha
I met two missionaries. Told them I was a Christian leaning agnostic. We had a good chat. We badmouthed Jehovah's witnesses, it was fun. Got a free book out of it.
never mormon but was raised catholic w severe anxiety and please never apologize for crying. Grieving what you thought was true is so deeply relatable. Thank you for your channel
Same and same
Same here but I am a firm believer that our experiences are not for naught. My Catholic experience that subsequently drove me to become an agnostic did open a personal hole for me that my now faith has replaced. So basically I kind of went Catholic to agnostic to evangelical/fundamental and now just simply follower of Christ with no identifiable church affiliation.
Same
Catholicism is true and is the one apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ. Protestantism lead to this chaos of false prophets arising and we are warned about deceivers and false prophets in the Holy Bible.
Timestamp?
I'm glad you left in the part when you cried. I'm not Mormon, but I was in a Christian cult for 2 years and it was devastating when I left. Can't imagine having my whole life's worldview come undone. Bravo to you to have the courage to tell your story. I'll be honest, I watch your channel because I am amazed by all the crazy stuff Mormons believe. You made me see how hard this is for you. You are a bad ass.
I grew up in an abusive Christian home, which made me stray away. I pray and stuff to god but they aren’t the god Christian’s think of. That word is still tricky to me to define, I just know that there has to be a higher being, even if it’s gravity, that will take care of me. I know I have to go somewhere when I die, even if it’s the dirt ground. I truly believe religion is all psychological to make people feel good about themselves, and that people can’t think for themselves.
It's 3:10 am in Hawaii. I became a member of the LDS church in 1950 at the age of 15. I've had doubts about the truthfulness of the LDS church even now at the age of 89. I'm inactive going in and out of the faith mostly out.
After praying for the truth, I fell upon John Dehlin's you tube. That was a revelation to me.
I'm sure you have a high IQ. Your presentation is in the upper level of many podcasts I've seen and heard.
You cried because you care, and you are very honest.
Although I have strong doubts about the truthfulness of the LDS church, my question is what purpose did Joseph Smith have to start a 19th century church? He gained nothing.
Bless your heart for being helpful and honest.
@@josephtseu3483 To the last part of your message- throughout history, people have done things like this many times to gain power and “fame”. His history shows a troubled past, and it seems like he wanted the glory. I’ve always heard that religion is the easiest entry point for fame and glory because religious people really are in such a pursuit for eternal life. If you have charm and can spin it the right way, you can really trick people into thinking your entire salvation is in their hands. I feel like he knew this and like I said, wanted the glory so much he was willing to die for it.
I'm a lifelong member of the church with family that's been in the church since 1831. Joseph Smith actually has the personality characteristics of what is known as Psychopathic Personality Disorder (aka Sociopath). I've spent a lot of time studying Joseph Smith and his family, and this personality disorder describes Joseph Smith extremely well. Look up the PCL-R (Psychopath Check List - Revised) and Dr. Robert D. Hare's website. There's also a really good nonfiction book "Snakes in Suits" by Paul Babiak and Dr. Robert Hare. Excellent book and describes Joseph Smith very well.
Joseph Smith was simply a man who enjoyed Conning people. He got his jollies in life by telling tall tales and fooling other people. So, what did Joseph Smith gain? He didn't have to live the life of farmer for one. He hated hard physical labor. He got to spend his life getting his jollies everyday by fooling people and having all kinds of people come to see him. He got his ego fed daily. He also got ANY woman or girl he wanted. A typical Psychopath will do anything sexually. It's possible Joseph Smith engaged in sexual behavior whenever and wherever he wanted to. It appears he loved to do the forbidden -- such as marrying very young girls, taking other men's wives, marrying sisters, marrying mother-daughter. Joseph Smith by creating a religion, had tons of people completely obedient to him, and doing whatever he ordered, even when he would tell a man that he wanted the man's wife. The case of Joseph telling Heber C. Kimball that God demanded Heber give his wife Vilate to Joseph as his wife, is just one. Joseph did the same numerous times.
Joseph fulfilled his daily desires which were to Con people every day, giving him a thrill every day. There was always a new person to Con each day. He sought power and was opposed, but he achieved great power in Nauvoo. And the Council of Fifty minutes show he planned to take over the United States government and make himself Dictator. He was running for President at the time he was killed. It's clear the editor of the Warsaw Signal identified Joseph Smith as a very dangerous Conman. The United States came very close to being dissolved by Joseph Smith and his brainwashed followers, who would do ANYTHING he ordered them to do.
@@josephtseu3483
@@sarahmarie3317 I just woke up and it's 11 am Sunday in Hawaii. Thank you for your explanation as I felt this way too. There were too many spiritual things happening I'm my life after my father's death as if he were sending me a message from the spirit world.
I was born on China, influenced by my dad to be an LDS at age 15. I'm a former U.S. Marine during the Korean War. A U. S. Naval Dental officer I'm the Vietnam War. Ran 20 Marathons including Boston. I succeeded in many endeavors in life, but understanding the church and living its Gospel was difficult especially in Chicago going through dental school as the only Asian in the Ward. I was asked many times if I felt comfortable being the only Asian family by the Bishop and other members. Honestly I felt nothing . I was not looking at myself but outward. I'm very much American as my father who was a World War 1 American wounded warriors Purple Heart recipient. My brothers all served in the 5 different military services. I being the youngest decided to be a Marine.
Now that I'm getting closer to my end in this life in earth I'm more curious as to what my beliefs are. I know there is a Supreme Being . If we can exists so can someone who is smarter than we. Maybe space Aliens. I know I'll be judged as a person and not what religion I belonged to. The LDS church is so insignificant. The population of members compared to the world is like having a football stadium filled with 100,000 fans. Only 2 are LDS. What a feat to baptize the dead during the Milliieniem . This earth is 4. 3 million years old. Where does Adam and Eve enter? Did their children practice incest ? How did the penguins get to Noah's ark from the South pole? How did an Ark fill with equal opposite sex of each animal fit in a ship 500 yds. long for 5 months ?
Faith is needed , but I think the truth must be paramount. I'm told that someday I'll kmow the truth by faithful members of the church. I'll regret it and it will be too late.
The Plan of Salvation as taught taught to memobers of the LDS does not make sense. If God is omniscient and knows the future why were we we given a body to us when He knows the future already? We existed with Him already with Jesus and Satan?
I guessed Joseph Smith did not know he was to be killed at Carthage, Illinois. I traveled to Nauvoo from Chicago in 1962. Why did Emma Smith remained in Nauvoo ? She married a Methodist preacher. Why is there a statue of her in Salt Lake ? I must admit that most LDS people are good people who honestly believe their church is the only true church.
Thank you for your remark and insight.
I've never been Mormon but I'm First Nations so the Mormon belief that we're Lamanite descendants has always intrigued me since I first watched the South Park episode. It blows my mind that people faithfully believe such ludicrous erasure of my people's history. Your video has moved me. You're brave to share your story while facing much scrutiny. Much respect to you. Please take care.
Joseph needed to justify something. I can't post about it here. The original Church was protestant with 2 hooks. Those hooks were God was American, and being (guess) was reward in god's eyes.
@@whatsup3270being perfect is my 1st guess...but who knows
Yup. Im not a first nations individual, but I have researched extensively on indigenous topics so its kind of sad to see such misinformation spewed and erasure of the true origins of the various native peoples of the americas.
@@DM5550Z Ok Darth Mar. Ill trust your dark side opinion, cause the darkness leads to …. hate …. anger…. O wait a minute!?
You may need more education. I've Iived with indigenous Australians and new Zealanders. They have stories (and genetics) that connect to the Amazon and North America. Go watch 'New Zealand skeletons in the cupboard ' for a Taiste of what we know. Do you ever speak to your elders? Not everyone has stories, but some do.
As a history teacher, I greatly appreciate seeing your skill in analyzing sources to corroborate evidence. The discipline of history is about getting to the truth of our past. I hope my students can apply what I've taught them to do this great work you're doing in their own lives.
Truly, you do a great job considering the purpose and source of these testimonies and primary sources. Great work!
Your statement "You've been strong enough to have resilient belief in the religion of your family and that means you are strong enough to have resilient belief in yourself now" made me catch my breathe. You ended this video, which was incredibly educational, easy to watch, and entertaining, on such a powerful and poignant note. Thank you for what you do. I just asked my library to order your book.
Thank you for this. I'm a Christian and my mom converted to Mormonism when she married my step dad. I just wish she knew the truth, but there's so much hostility whenever I bring up concerns.
Truth should stand to criticism … maybe try leading the conversation with that
praying it goes well for a fellow christian.
They're both patriarchal religions, being in one makes you vulnerable to another. You cannot help her by pulling her back into a "cleaner" religion. They're both obsessed with seeding the next generation.
** we're just seeing a recent version of a patriarchal religion stemming, do you think the cult management was that much different before we even colonized America? which was already another split in christianity with protestantism. Its the same game, a subsect of men just want more power.
I befriended two Morman missionarys and loaned my Italian racing bike to one. He promptly loaded it onto an airplane and flew black to Salt Lake. Wow, what grace!
Sounds about right.
Not surprising at all.
Maybe you can look for it in the Celestial Kingdom 😂
Most Mormons who really believe are honest regarding physical objects; it's the words and deeds of the leaders they can't be honest about.@@bendyrland7213
It's probably been blessed and made sacred now. You should be proud. Hell, if they can do it to a couple of stones...
Don’t be ashamed of crying at the end. It is a sad thing to realize you believed a lie for so long but now you know the truth and can live a more fulfilling life going forward! ❤
Your channel is a hyper fixation goldmine - the length of the videos and the detail is incredible
Totally.
Im hyper fixating rn
Thank you. I’m one of the “little Alyssa’s” you mentioned. I’m a sixteen year old who has been raised in the church, and my rose colored lenses are finally starting to crack. I feel so isolated because all of my friends are active Mormons, and I don’t now anyone in my personal life who has gone through this metamorphosis. I usually never comment, but the last message you gave was really touching. Thank you for sharing your story. You make me feel less alone.
I am an adult convert to the Church. The Elders knocked on my door, gave me a Book of Mormon, and asked me to pray about it ~ so I prayed and since then, I have received many answers to many prayers. I don't know why some receive and some don't ... I don't pretend to know that ~ that is between you and God. Nevertheless, I do know that God still loves you and I hope that your family and friends do too; but, I can't speak for them. Me, myself, I went through the opposite experience ... some family and friends disowned me cause they thought the Church was a cult. ... but ... a few years down the line and everyone changed and thing the Church is the best thing that ever happened to me ~ and they are right ~ it is. So, the moral of the story is not if your family and friends give up on you, but rather, if you give up on your family and friends. In any case ~
God is love.
If the Church has taught you anything,
I hope it is to love.
.
"Cheese But True"
by Arianne Grande
.
-i know that you may not see this;
but how do you learn to accept yourself?
i struggle with this so much.
.
-it is very hard baby love.
everyone struggles with this.
.
-don’t compare yourself to anybody else and
try to love the things you usually hate on
.
-pretend your mind and your heart
and your body are like your children!
you need to take care of them
like a mother would.
.
-cheese but true.
.
-if you don’t love you,
you won’t be able to accept love
from anyone else.
.
-it’s a full time job.
loving yourself is hard work
... very hard work
.
especially when
there are so many people out there
who try to make you feel
like you shouldn’t
.
-but if YOU love you,
none of them will be able to reach you
.
-but i love you if that helps
.
-------------------
P E A C E
We wish you the very best,
.
Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God who worshipped Jesus Christ and translated the Book of Mormon from plates of brass preserved over time by the hand of God. The Book of Mormon is complimentary to the Bible and another witness of the same gospel of Jesus Christ...the only name whereby we can be saved.
After Joseph Smith was murdered in June of 1844, Brigham Young led many saints to SLC, Utah...while many others did not go (including Emma Smith, Joseph's only wife). Brigham Young was a false teacher and prophet who introduced several abominable practices into his denomination, including polygamy, men becoming Gods, God once being a man, blood atonement of men, a heavenly mother, and secret penal oath temple rituals. He corrupted the true History of the Church to pretend that those teachings came from Joseph Smith in order to gain support....and many today are still under that deception.
Oh my god, the scary culty comments. I feel so sorry for you having to live that shit. :(
The Book of Mormon, when it copies the KJV, also copies the textual variants / mistranslations of the 1769 KJV. The only way that happens is if Joseph Smith was reciting from the only bible he knew - the 1769 KJV. How people can see this as anything other than con artistry is beyond me.
group think is real and scary
That was one of the two things I remembered about the Book of Mormon. The two things were: 1. fully one third of the text was lifted from the Bible (that's called plagiarism), and 2. the Book of Mormon was probably the most boring of religious (scripture ?) I've read - and I've read the Bible, the Koran and the Bakavad Gita (sic).
it'd be interesting to see a non-faithful film retelling of his life i think
This video includes both!
It should be called 'Regular Joe'
@@ArguAngelsomg that’s amazing
@@Mess_of_a_Maniac Thanks! :D
And you have that one southpark episode😂
My teacher asked us if we could meet any historical figure who it would be, and a Mormon girl in my class said “Joseph smith” took everything in me not to say he had wives younger than her and was a total con artist 🤦♀️😬
😂
omg! Can we mention Chad Daybell right now! And the Patterns through NETFLIX.Murder.Amongst.The.Mormons- Mark Hoffman OR Ted Bundy, Josh.Powell Too many LD$ Patterns to count!
Careful, your ignorance is showing.
Why would you NOT say it? Cults only continue due to indoctrination and brainwashing.
@@TheWrath2010 I am curious as to what part of their comment do you believe their ignorance is showing?
Shout out for the “primary sources” and information literacy part of your video. Great advice!
I was one of those who left the church in the 1970's over the racism issue.
The church tried to sweep it under the rug, and ignore the fact that there were congressmen threatening to have the IRS review the church's tax exempt status over the refusal to allow black people into the priesthood. It all came to a head after the civil rights movement in the 60's. Pressure was building, but nothing would budge the church. I remember it well. The church teaching at the time was that skin color was purely due to sin and that god only allowed those without sin (ie white) into the highest levels of the celestial kingdom. Black people were denied entry into temples and eternal marriage.
I never saw a single non-white person at chapel, or at any other church functions. They were simply not invited.
This was god's law, therefore eternal and unchanging.
Wouldn't you know it, as soon as god heard about the tax exemption problem he has a visit with the prophet and basically says "just kidding about the keeping them out of the priesthood stuff. I've changed my mind. Let them in." Thus the unchanging eternal law of god became the changed law. God had just been having a bit of a laugh it seems. He didn't mean it, and all those people who sinned so much that god made them non-white can be forgiven.
The church went to great lengths to blame it all on Brigham Young. He was an easy target because he had proclaimed that any white woman who had sex with a black man should be put to death. They totally whitewashed the fact that the racism started with Joseph Smith. Smith put into the Book of Mormon that god only liked white people, saying that white is "delightful" to god. They never used the racism word at all. No mention that the previous policy was wrong and immoral. It couldn't be, because they were just following god's commands, so that made them the good guys. No, letting in those with the mark of Cain was no more than a change of rules, with the new rule being no more good or bad than the old rule.
By not accepting that the racism was wrong, and the role of god and Joseph Smith in the racism, they made it all a rather sordid affair.
The racism continues. The Mormon Jesus is always depicted as Lilly white. No trace of Palestine in the Mormon Jesus. Christians usually depict Jesus as a North European white man, but no other church makes Jesus as pure white as the Mormon church does. I guess Smith would describe it as "delightfully white."
And the church, as far as I know, has never acknowledged the tax exemption threats, or its timing regarding god's change of mind. Instead they took it as a good thing that proved that the prophet still had a hotline from god's very busy office.
I love the way at you write! Have you ever written books?
@@leilaschwab5926 Thank you. I mostly write lectures, essays, articles, and other academic stuff.
I am currently writing about the on-the-ground racism seen in early European colonialism in Australia. It amazes me how mindlessly callous and brutal those people were, yet, in their minds, they were bringing the saving grace of Christianity and civilization to the “savages.”
According to their actions and words, the only true savages were the Europeans. Thank goodness our attitudes to race have evolved, but if it were up to the churches, we would still be in an era of slavery, because supposedly, that is the way god ordained things in the Bible. Mormonism is only one of many churches with a history based in racism.
We see it in early Israelite philosophy, which held that god favors one “race” over other races, from blaming skin color on sin to making the Jews the “chosen people.” Most Christians seem to never consider how fundamentally racist the concept of the chosen people is.
Mormonism only stands out because of its extreme reluctance and tardiness in abandoning the most racist elements of church ideology and practice.
THANK YOU.. I was just trying to find the goodness in LDS and your post has made it even clearer that I was mistaken. BE WELL..GOD IS!
@@artistjohwhat will your book be called?
Our history here in Australia still has echoes that need a lot of healing.
@@Plethorality A book is years in the making, and until a publisher greenlights it, it may not happen. However, there will be lectures and RUclips videos that will come first. Hopefully I can remember your comment and return here to give you a link to any videos that get published later in the year.
Yes, Joseph Smith was running a treasure seeking con and got convicted in 1826. He got caught lying about polygamy, clearly abused his power with women, got caught conning followers with the Book of Abraham and the Kinderhook plates, not to mention his false prophecies. LDS missionaries lie every day about him. Check out the new book about who authored the Book of Mormon by Lars Nielsen. Fascinating read.
The question is you really believe this bitter woman who uses sarcasm, lies and even criminal activity to persecute the church? Wise up!
What's the book's name?
What's the book's name?
@@tucuxi70Every comment you leave supports her and brings more people ❤ Glad you're here.
How the Book of Mormon came to pass by Lars Nielsen
"Gold weighs 1,204 pounds per cubic foot, so if we use the dimensions given by Smith we can correctly conclude that the plates were 1/6 of a cubit foot. In other words, if the plates were made of gold (as the angel Moroni claimed them to be), they would have weighed 200 pounds. This becomes problematic since no one believes that it is physically possible to carry such a weight for any considerable distance, much less be able to run away from thieves bent on stealing the plates." -- Mormon Research Ministry
that’s a rly good point
On the other hand, very few people have ever handled enough gold to realize this. So a credulous “witness” allowed to handled a stack of thin tin sheets under a cloth might be fooled.
Basically it weighed the same as a refrigerator. I have it on good advice that Smith stumbled upon a leprechauns store of gold at the end of a rainbow, but still that is only second hand.
They just missed an absolutely beautiful opportunity to make it canon that Joe was just freakishly jacked. I'm sure they could start selling pre-workout and get some gym bro converts 😂
Yeah I don't think most people considered what that would be like.
While I'm certainly no history expert, the more I learn about Joseph Smith the more shocked I become about the things I used to believe about him... and how sad it makes me that so many children are taught to look up to him. I'm sure he wasn't entirely bad, but so many of the actions he took throughout his life seem, at least from my limited knowledge, dedicated to deceiving and manipulating the people around him for his own personal gain.
People like him are only "not entirely bad" when it helps them gain access to more victims.
Its actually really interesting the way we as humans view a number of historical figures. How many people grew up learning that Thomas Jefferson or Bejamin Franklin were amazing people? Several Kings and Queens that were terrible people are viewed as heroes (cough cough Richard the Lionheart, cough cough). Even recently, the musical "Hamilton" tries to portray him as a freedom fighter against slavery, even though the real Hamilton was very pro slavery.
Context is everything.
People are people, and even the ones who appear the most selfless are still looking out for themselves. Which is fine, but when human greed comes into play it can be a problem
@@Elizabeth-hc3miehhh he wasn't PRO slavery....but he was no diehard abolitionist either.
As your comment was starting to point out, the reality of what happened in history is often different from what we are taught. And one thing we are mistakenly taught all the time is that ppl can only be one thing or the other.
He engaged in the slave trade while working for his father-in-law, but he also wrote in favor of abolition of the practice later in life.
Ppl are usually much more nuanced than we are taught to believe
Alyssa, As a 4th gen LDS I completely get your experience because I have had the same crisis of faith. Kudos to your efforts to share your findings. It is incredibly difficult for an everyday person to create a flawless video but know that your genuineness was evident and don't apologise for being authentic at the end. Thank you for making the big effort you did. Sending love and understanding your way from another human just trying to navigate this strange world we find ourselves in. Scott xx
I pray you find truth in the Bible. J.S. could not have sold his lie to others without attacking the validity of the Bible. The dead sea scrolls and the thousands of early manuscripts of the books of the new testament show it has not been corrupted as the BOM and J.S. said.
Look at the oldest known copy of the book of John which is very near the time after he wrote Revelations and is called papyrus 66. You can see that it is the same today as then. You were told a lie from childhood but the truth is there for you to find. God bless and I am praying for you.
It truly is devastating to realize the man we idolized and whose church we dedicated 20+ years to is a corrupt con artist. There are still days I feel so sad about it all. I truly loved him and the church. Now it all feels like a sick joke. Thanks for your videos ❤
It's one big Con job but be grateful that you were able to leave the deception and live a life based on truth instead of lies.
You'll get through it. Focus on the fact that you have been emancipated.
Never Mormon here, raised Christian. Your videos help an even greater community find peace in questioning and doubt than you know. Thank you!
I have found that God can handle my biggest questions and biggest fears🥰🙏🙏
Don't give up on God.
I’m a 62 year old life long atheist, born to atheists, so religion has never played a part in my life. I too cried for any young person feeling doubt. I can’t begin to imagine how difficult and heart wrenching it must be. Keep on talking, and encouraging self education.
Most ppl practice a religion because they were raised in it but that could also be said about ppl who are raised atheist too. In my case though I was raised by a non religious Jewish mother who had been raised modern orthodox yet went off the path as an adult and married my goyish father but I’ve become more observant as an adult through the influence of my Lubavitcher neighbors
I'm 31, the last people who weren't born atheists in my family were my mom's parents who both left their respective churches as soon as they could after WWII. So my mom and all of her siblings were raised without religion and then so were us kids. Dad's family also wasn't religious.
I hate how much religious trauma and guilt has hurt people I know and love and so many others I don't. Nobody deserves this kind of pain just for not believing.
@@DieAlteistwiederda something that does so much good like religion has done in human history (like Catholics developing the scientific method because of the belief that the universe was designed by a a creator in an orderly way with set patterns and laws that can be discovered and observed plus all of the hospitals and universities that got started by Catholics as well as the charities that took care of the poor) will often get twisted by evil ppl who profess adherence to it. As a Jew my tradition teaches that all ppl are made in the image of G-d which when that was written over 3000 years ago in Torah it was a radical statement on human equality in an ancient near eastern culture which thought that only the rulers were made in the image of the gods. Based off of that concept which Catholicism borrowed from us (along with the mitzvah in Torah which commands us to love our neighbors like ourselves) they did all of the good that they did
@@DieAlteistwiederda religion has done a lot of good for ppl in human history but often it gets twisted by ppl who profess adherence to it. In my tradition as a Jew our Torah gave the first statement ever on human equality when it said that all ppl are made in the image and likeness of G-d which was a radical statement when it was written over 3000 years ago in a culture which thought that only the rulers were made in the image of the gods. This concept along with the other teaching of Torah which commands us to love our neighbors like ourselves formed the basis behind the good works that Christians later did when they borrowed these concepts from us (like starting hospitals and universities and charities and orphanages) so it’s important to not throw the baby out with the bath water
@@Matzah1982true, but those principles can still be reached without thinking about or considering God at all. All ppl are equal because all ppl are ppl and our lives don't have quantifiable worth
As an archivist and historian I can attest that your approach to this is very sound. Noting inherent bias and referencing primary sources is key. You have given us a very valid counter argument to the cult of Mormonism.
This
It is beyond my Presbyterian comprehension that so many people don't question this pure craziness!
My 2 cents as an ex-mormon... It's good to recognize that the majority of members aren't aware of their own history, or even current issues with the LDS church. I wasn't aware of the polygamy and most controversial issues until after my baptism. As for the believers around the time Joseph Smith was alive, I think it's always been true that Mormonism excels in making people feel special and valued. Speaking from my own experience, it's almost addictive, and I imagine that has led many to overlook serious issues.
Same. I grew up in a very left-leaning, critical-thinking supportive Presbyterian congregation. (Examples: the choir director and his husband were welcome members, and before my confirmation my pastor actively encouraged me not to go through with it if I didn't want to, and that that would be okay.) I am only just realizing the depth of religious abuse people can suffer from, and I totally get why they would leave the church. It makes me sick that so many religious "leaders" warp something that ought to be a source of strength and comfort to people into something evil.
I was born and raised Presbyterian. Started dating a girl who was LDD and eventually had missionary lessons.
At 28, I was baptized LDS because I was led to believe that they had more answers.
Fast forward to the 2015 youth conference in New York. All my doubts got confirmed as scary truths seeing the things that were done.
I officially resigned during May of 2016 despite the efforts of the bishop trying to stop my resignation.
I have left religion completely.
I wasn’t raised in a Mormon household, but I was raised in a southern Baptist household. I’ve been watching your videos having for a few weeks now, and even having lost my faith more than five years ago now, I find it very odd how many similarities I’ve seen between your experiences/struggles and the ones I’ve experienced. I very much appreciate the work that you’re doing, and sharing your experiences to some degree has helped me to cope with my own trauma regarding these religious matters. For what it’s worth, I’d like to say thank you for sharing what you went through, it means a lot to have some kind of validation for the way that I feel.
Gunny, I differ from you only in that I returned to my faith after my falling away. I am glad you have found a validation of your experience. Some people never know what doubt is and how hard it is to leave something behind or how you’re treated for having doubts and deeper questions. It’s especially hard to reconcile the treatment you sometimes encounter when you leave with people who supposedly know they should love all. I’m sympathetic to your feelings on this. I only hope you don’t discriminate against me because I was navy whereas Gunny denotes USMC.
Was your struggle with the God of the bible or with men who did not follow it? The BOM is easily proven false. DNA proves it is false alone. However, archeology and ancient manuscripts keep showing that the bible has not been corrupted and is the same today as it was 200 years before Christ. God bless. One is truth based upon reason. The other (BOM) is based on "faith" by disregarding the evidence that shows it is false and started by a convicted "money digger" looking for money, power and sexual partners.
There's a difference, though. The Mormon Church is not led by the Holy Spirit of wisdom and truth while the Baptist Church makes the Bible the final authority so many can be saved. Not everyone is a child of God, however.
I cannot wait to sit down and watch this. Being completely blind, I have to say there is something about your whole cadence and your speaking voice that are just very pleasant to hear and having studied the church more carefully than anybody who isn’t a member and more than most members, I am totally fascinated by all of this. You should do a video on each one of the presidents of the church.
yesss that would be such a good video! i'd also love a deep dive on Brigham Young and what the historical evidence actually supports about him vs. the church's narrative and characterization of him, similar to this video.
Yes. She does have a very pleasant voice. (And I usually prefer men's voices for podcasts and the like!)
I wonder if the presidents are sincere believers or if they are just happy in their greedy profits.
youre in good company 😄
I’m a Christian. But never been a Mormon and respect ex mormon and ex Christian’s. I’m a 4th gen pastors kid but I love seeing the world through your eyes and your past and thinking critically of my life and beliefs. Your so respectful and informative thank you
Seems like you also might be in a cult.
@@oliviabb73849Give them time.
Sorry about them. Ex-Mormons are a very traumatized group of people and we don’t tend to have high opinions of Christianity generally, but it’s nothing against you. I hope you find happiness and peace no matter what route you choose. 🩷
@@oliviabb73849 Seems like you don't know what you are talking about
Have you met the Lord yet?
You speaking to your younger self was one of the most beautiful things I’ve seen on RUclips, I’m so glad you left it in! We feel for you too.
I’m not Mormon, but I received the Book of Mormon as a white elephant gift (as a joke) at a work Christmas party in my 20’s. Because I had a lot of friends that were Mormon and I was curious about what they believe (because so much felt so secretive), I tried reading it to see how different it was from the Bible and I honestly couldn’t make any sense of it. I could see how it was meant to be written in the style of the King James Version of the Bible, but so much of the sentence structure just didn’t make sense to me. It was like reading gibberish. I really loved and respected my Mormon friends and I honestly thought that if I read the BOM I would have a better understanding of this secretive religion and of who they were, but it had the opposite effect. Totally turned me off even more than I felt before. Still loved my friends, but I knew I was sticking to my own faith and not converting to theirs.
The key to writing a good holy book is to make sure it is long and a challenge to read. This ensures that you'll always need priests to interpret it "properly.".
one day i want to send this video to my mother.
i was raised in the mormon church from birth. my mother was, and still is, extremely strong in the church and taught us to be that as well. she wasn't the most strict mormon mother in the world, but she was definitely up there and i would not have considered her "nuanced" in any form of the world. and i always struggled. i felt wrong and othered, compared to my peers, and i never understood why. i could never find it in me to want to pray or read my book of mormon every day or enjoy church. i dreaded these things, and it made me feel terrible and dirty.
my formative years were spent with me basically sludging by, being forced to be active in a religion i did not want to be apart of. against my will, for 19 years, i went to church every sunday, i went to wednesday activities, i went to seminary classes, i went on temple trips, i engaged in family home evening, and so much more. i was homeschooled as well, so my entire social group was just the church. i didn't really like the other kids at church though, other than a short few. i was a reserved, nerdy kid who had a hard time making close relationships. i was well-liked by the other nerdy mormon kids and got along well with many of my peers as i was loud, brash, and witty when i was willing to engage with them, but most of the time i just wanted to draw and then go home. a lot of the mormon kids were snobbish and judgemental as well, and it made me not want to try and make friends with anyone.
i tried to stop going, i would pretend to be sick all the time, but was forced to attend church anyway. i especially did not want to attend seminary, but was given no choice in the matter there either. and it was so so hard. i just felt like everyone around me was judging me all the time because i was "weird." i wasn't like the other kids. i wasn't disruptive, but i wasn't "reverent" either. i would very visibly not pay attention to anything being taught, my head in my sketchpad instead, and i would prioritize making the other kids laugh rather than engage seriously in any of the lessons.
i remember, at girl's camp, i was lying down next to my best friend in her bunkbed so we could talk and hear each other, and was kicked off it by an older lady because she considered sharing a bed to be "lesbian-like behavior." i remember i was given a love letter by one of my male peers but i couldn't read his hand-writing, so i asked someone to help me decipher it (not realizing it was a love letter), and got screamed at by the boy's mom because she thought i was "making fun of her son" by showing the letter to someone else. i remember asking questions about doctrine and getting so much push-back or getting brushed off. i remember, because my family was poor, i only owned one church-appropriate skirt for a great deal of time, and the little girls would giggle and sneer at me behind my back when they noticed i wore it every sunday. i remember when one of the boys my age was outed as gay against his will, and the information judgmentally spread across the whole church in a night. i remember a 40 year old male family friend putting his hand on my lower back when sitting by me at sacrament meeting and it would make me really uncomfortable. i remember being forced to bear my testimony and never really knowing what to say, because i didn't HAVE one, so i would just make stuff up. i remember my mother would lock the cabinets so i couldn't eat because i had been gaining a lot of weight, and she said that god wouldn't want me to get diabetes.
going to public high school was what finally changed the game for me. i was dealing with such terrible depression, and the friends i made there became my world. i got adopted by "the weird" kids and it was like finding a place i belonged. i was very different from all of them-- they swore all the time, made s*x jokes, skipped class, talked about liberal politics positively, and didnt dress modestly, but they were the kindest, most welcoming kids id ever met, and even though i felt like i shouldn't be friends with them, i chose to anyway. they all liked my art, they liked the same types of cartoons as me, they wouldn't make fun of my weight, they liked my jokes, and they were just more genuine than the kids at church. at this time, i was under the brainwashed ideology of "hate the sin, not the sinner" at the time, but i also wasn't the type of person to be like "you're a sinner" either. so when my friends did "bad things" like skip class or swear, i would just go on with my day.
by the time i graduated high school, all of my closest friends had come out as gay or trans. i remember my senior year i had my first introduction to transgenderism as a concept, and it caught me off guard. however, i had always been a rather open-minded person and i remember the first time i found out my friend was a boy i was just like "oh! okay," and that was that. as i continued to branch out my social circle to include more gay and trans people, it really sparked something in me. i learned more and more about q*eer culture, what it meant, how it wasn't a choice, how it wasn't actually a sin. and it finally clicked for me WHY i'd always felt so different from my mormon peers. I WAS ALSO Q*EER. i had never even noticed because i am an asexual person, so i'd just gone around thinking s*x was dumb and gross and not really Getting what everyone else was going on about. i also learned that i am not cisgender, but that realization came only after a long time of self-actualization.
regardless, when q*eerness became such a big part of my world, it became suddenly very clear to me that mormonism was not going to work. i was already one foot out the door, as someone who had never felt very "accepted" or "convinced" by the concept, but this really sealed the deal for me. i told my mother i was not going to attend a mormon mission, as had been my plan (read: HER plan FOR me) and that i did not want to attend church anymore. in return, she told me to pack my things and get out of her house. i was 19 years old.
luckily for me, i had always been a likeable person and was easily able to find people willing to help me find housing. in the span of 20 days after being told to leave i got my driver's license, bought a car with money i had been saving from my job, and packed all my stuff, and left. i ended up moving states to live with a friend, found a job quickly in retail, and settled down. i haven't attended a church service since, and even though the road has been extremely hard (as i never was able to attend college), i've been making it through. i'm so much happier than i was before, and that's what matters to me.
now, i know this information may paint my mother in a bad light. she did bad things to me, hurt me in a lot of really terrible ways growing up, and did not support me in ways she should have. she was the reason i had such terrible depression in high school, and it was a huge relief to be away from both her and the church. HOWEVER. i love my mom. it has been 7 years since i left, and she has grown a lot and become a much kinder person. she used to be very homophobic, she used to mock and scold me for being fat, she used to use god's word to excuse threats of physical abuse, she was a really very terrible mother and person to me when i was a child, and a lot of it was the church's influence through her (and was still 100% her fault). but i have watched her grow and change and become so much kinder. she is still an active member of the church, but she knows i am q*eer and supports me, she doesn't think being gay is a sin anymore, she is no longer as judgemental of others for their choices in life (and when she IS judgemental, she will listen to me when i point it out to her), she even swears occasionally now, etc. she's much easier to talk to and has com SUCH a long way. but the one thing she has not changed on is her view of the church and supporting everything they do, turning a blind eye to their many many wrong-doings.
my mom has come so far, and one day, i want her to be free of the chains the church has on her. my poor mother is destitute, but still pays her tithing so faithfully. she was abused by church members, but won't blame the church. the church has their venomous coils wrapped so tightly around her, and i want her to be free so badly. i know she has the capability to see the truth (or more accurately, the UNtruths), but she isn't there yet. she isn't at a point where she can let that information in. right now, she truly believes that we can't be together in the afterlife because i am an ex-mormon, and it breaks her heart. how can i break her heart more and tell her that none of that was guaranteed at all?
i love my mom, and i want her to be happy so badly. one day, i will send her this video. today is not that day.
No shift key?
she needs to get out the church now!!! she fr wasting her life being a mormon
Thank you for sharing your story
Yes, thank you for sharing your story and having the courage to make your own path in life. Another thing you could do that might help plant seeds in your mother's mind, is print up the 9 page pdf of the "S.E.C. Report. Just do an internet search for "SEC Ensign Peak." Maybe remove the name of the church from the top (where the church is listed as Defendant). Ask her what she thinks of this case (without the name of the church on it). Read the pdf yourself first and see what you think.
I was really moved by your story! I have three teen daughters of my own and would be heartbroken if I knew I ever made them feel bad or different. I could have easily been like your mom when you were growing up, but luckily something happened that caused me to leave the church when my girls were young. At the time I was a mess, dealing with abuse from a priesthood holder, enabled by leaders in the church, but it opened my eyes to what could happen in the church and therefore it wasn't a safe place for me or my daughters. Took years to deconstruct and now here I am realizing I almost raised them in this cult. I just love them so much and am glad we got out. I read your story and thought my god that could have been us, but on the other hand I don't think I could kick out my child for their beliefs either. I'm glad to hear she's gotten better and the fact you give her a chance shows your kindness as well. Good luck to you!!
Alyssa, you are a strong, intelligent young lady with a lot of heart and courage. I appreciate what you are doing here. I was a convert from the southern Baptist faith at age 31, I'm now 72. I listened to the missionary's messages and read the BOM right away. My soon to be wife had converted at age 18 and married a return missionary . Two children later she and her husband divorced, he left the church and soon was remarried to a woman he was having an affair with. As I learned more and more about Mormonism I had more and more questions that were not being answered by our ward leaders. After 10 years we divorced and I haven't looked back. I wish I had your videos back then but I'm grateful for them now since finally most of my questions are being answered. Thank you . Can't wait until the next video. 🤗
Congrats on your success! You’re gaining subscribers fast. Your videos have helped me de-tangle Mormonism from my identity. I’ve stopped going to church and I feel much more free and like myself since leaving. Thank you, keep up the good work!
I’m so happy to hear it, and thank you for the congratulations 🎉 it means a lot, and best of luck on the journey out 💛
@@alyssadgrenfell From what I understand, there was a genuine spiritual revival going on in that region during the early days of JS. He saw how people responded and had a lot to draw from and imitate, imo.
Also, I believe the real reason Mormons stopped drinking coffee and tea was because it had to be brought in to Utah. Many Mormon pioneers actually travelled with coffee pots and tea sets on the long journey there. Brigham Young's desire was to isolate and be self-sustaining and didn't want outsiders coming through. He received a revelation that hot drinks were a sin. Diet Coke hadn't been invented yet. 😏
@@pennyeilander9263 Brigham Young owned a distillery in or near Salt Lake City. But that only surprised me for a short while. Upon reflection this seemed quite understandable.
Her video needs to be edited for length. It is verbose.
Thank you for your honesty, being real & raw about your feelings. I am not LDS, but my husband is & I pray for him constantly to have the veil torn from his eyes & heart! Thank you again for all your doing in helping others find their way out & know that they are loved & can still have an AMAZING life!!! 💜 God bless!!
You are simply amazing, girl! Your tears gave me tears and I’ve never believed any of the crap the church has advocated. Keep doing what you’re doing. You are a life coach for many of those people who need it most! You go, GIRL!!!
Dear Alyssa,
Finding out later in life that I came from a long lineage of Mormons was quite shocking to me as the information had been withheld or unknown for over 50 years. I’ve been researching relentlessly to find the truth and found your video to be of the utmost integrity. I cried with you. My heart sends the deepest compassion for your heartbreaking revelations and deepest respect for your diligent research and courage to share. Carry on sister. ❣️
Honestly your videos are so healing for me, cause sometimes I felt like no one understand me when I was quitting Mormonism, some of my friends used to make fun of me like just get over it is a ridiculous religion, but they don’t understand how much you left behind and that most of your family sees you as the black sheep and they feel sad that you are leaving the church. I spend like 3 years when I was already an adult trying to be a good Mormon just to please my parents because I loved them so much I didn’t wanted to disappoint them, it was super hard for me to just tell them I didn’t believe in the church anymore and that I wanted to experiment different things. Thanks for your videos, you are definitely making the difference
Thank you for leaving your real emotion in! You are so kind to everyone watching- the believers who want the truth and the believers who want you to stop talking. To the believers and the non believers. I have never been Mormon but as someone who was also raised in a high demand religion, seeing you have embodied empathy for me as I deconstruct is so beautiful and human and kind. ❤
I left the church in 2020 and i didn't know anything about the stones in the hat until i started questioning the church. I was born in the church. Thats 19 years of having no clue about so much that Joseph Smith did.
The lengths people will undertake to feel superior to others never ceases to amaze. The false promise of Godhood is the oldest lie in the book.
You are so strong and have helped my mom and I with our deconstruction of Mormonism. I just wanted you to know how much you have fone for us and probably others as well. ❤❤❤
As a never Mormon the first time I heard this story my reaction was…People really believe that goofy sh!t?
The question is you really believe this bitter woman who uses sarcasm, lies and even criminal activity to persecute the church? Wise up!
I mean, it’s no more far fetched than everything that underpins Christianity and the Bible. The only difference is time and the fact that Christianity is more widespread. I say this as someone who was raised catholic.
@@ih2439 I once thought I saw Jesus' face in my toast and thought about starting a church🤣🤣🤣
@@ih2439yep. Me too. Raised Catholic. The Jesus story is equally goofy.
@@Zeett09some of the things weren't possible in the Bible, I guess that's why they were miracles. Sometimes miracles do still happen today.
I guess the difference from Smith is that a group of people (apostles from the Bible) spent the rest of their lives sharing what they experienced.
None went back to their lives. And that's setting aside the persecution aspect where none of them recanted.
Plus none of them were convicted con men who make uncorroborated claims. Everything written in the New Testament was verifiable (well, many of the people and places were still around, anyway).
Also, Jesus is someone that must be chosen or rejected by each person. Being raised with stories of someone is different from choosing to follow them.
When you realize what you have been taught as truth is simply not, it does cause pain. Cry all you want so you can heal.
Alyssa! Thank you so much for your honesty and integrity. And thank you for your vulnerability. I am a cradle Catholic, and I still sob when I look back on how much I believed, and how angry I am at the church now. So grateful for what you do.
hey so i sent this video to the bishop of my family's ward cuz he said he was interested in seeing other points of views and stuff. so then he said he's already seen all ur videos and that ur "ignorant to how these things work" 😭😭 and then he sent me the talk "Stand Forever" by Lawrence E Corbridge. i watched the whole thing and thought it was awful but i really thought you would be interested in doing a video on that talk. and thats because the guy said he was tasked with reading every antagonist material against the church and he then made that talk in response. i just noticed how he never actually answered anyones questions and just said to pray about it and ask the primary questions 💀 and a lot of people would benefit if you went over that talk cuz you're really good at explaining ❤️
I am not mormon, nor ex-mormon, but i really enjoy your videos. seeing you re-tell this thing you went through online to help people who are going through the same thing is really powerful. I grew up catholic, which definitely is not the same level as Mormonism, but being a gay kid growing up in organized religion is extremely difficult. Your story and your videos are incredibly fascinating to watch as someone who doesn't know much about Mormonism, but knows how harmful strict religious institutions can be. I'm a massive history nerd as well, so I always love learning new things about the past and how that can be twisted and used today, and I firmly believe you have to know the full story if you are dedicating your life to something such as a religion. These videos are really important, and I know you've helped a lot of kids who are struggling. Keep making videos, you are incredible 🩷
That veil will fall even more. Just don't stop telling your story. I'm not Mormon, but have family and friends in the church. I live around the corner from their church in Central Hawke's Bay, New Zealand. We are a close-knit family and no matter what faith we are (there are several 😊) we still get together as one to celebrate events.
Wish you love and light ❤
Exmo here, I have a large family as we were bought up in the church in Hamilton ,N.Z. 5 out of 10 of our family members are still TBM's. I love my siblings very much and though I don't see them very much we enjoy what we have as a family when I sometimes travel up to Hamilton from my home here in Wellington.
I’m in Australia & I’m a never Mormon, my interest in Mormonism emanated from working with a colleague who was a Mormon. My colleague’s behaviours were concerning; we were peers working as disability caseworkers & I was very concerned about her judgement of the people that we were supporting.
If you don't mind me asking, what kinds of stuff was she judgemental about? I'm an exmormon and unfortunately very familiar with that kind of behavior but shudder to think about someone mistreating clients because of their religion!
@@Abby-jp6di she would make judgements about their hygiene, housing qualities, clothing choices, church they attended, judging their parents religious choices, sexuality, whether they were married or “living in sin” - the list was endless.
Never thought, in 1001 years, that learning about the Mormon church and its practices would become my new obsession, but low and behold, here we are.
I didn’t grow up Mormon my husband did. I started watching to understand a little when we were not allowed to attend a wedding in temple of our niece.
My thoughts are you are such an intelligent young lady. Thanks for the education and I can really tell you have put a lot of time in your research. I admire your strength and your caring nature. I wish you well and thank you.
Just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your intellectual integrity, and how carefully you research and explain this information. ❤
Good for you Alyssa! Cry if you need to and then move on. Thank you for your generosity of spirit and truth.
Thanks for bringing this to light. I was a convert in 1979 for 5 years. When I moved to Ogden Utah, my eyes was opened. The Mormans showed great prejudice. If you go and rent a property, you don't fill out an application, but asked how long have you been a member. I felt like I went back in time. Instead of racial prejudice, ìt was religious prejudice. I am proud to say that i went back to Christianity. Take a look all the leaders are wealthy. J
Thank you
You'd think that if you actually joined the MORMON Church you'd know it's not MORMANS, true?
X😢
I really respect your dedication to research and encouraging people to study this topic themselves. ❤
“According to Mormon understanding, Smith translated the Book of Mormon, dictating to a scribe hundreds of pages of an English-language narrative taken from centuries-old gold plates inscribed in “reformed Egyptian.”
There’s never been a reformed Egyptian” language.
My 4th great grandfather was a member of the Quorum of the 70 in Nauvoo in 1844. When my siblings and I started questioning the truth of the religion, our extended family freaked. They still are worried about our everlasting souls haha.
You do a great job with your videos. I appreciate it.
Lds raised. 12th bday my mom (byu hawaii alumn) stopped making me go to church. Gave me a choice starting that day.
Haven’t been back since.
Magic books and magic men in the sky has never made sense to me, as a child and as an adult.
Respect to you
YES!! I have been checking and rechecking for you to upload! I seriously, LOVE your content. I LOVE what you’re doing. You are one badass lady ❤
Thank you for your patience! My son had hand, foot, and mouth this week and it was just awful 😞 so everything got pushed back a bit. But we made it! Thanks for watching and supporting 🫶🏻
You are brilliant, Alyssa. I’m excited to watch this series. I’m 9 months out of the church. It’s hurtful when people think I left because I’m “lazy, want to sin, etc.” It’s not true. I’m devastated to have believed in Joseph Smith for the last 26 years and then to have that crumble upon discovering church history. It’s so sad. But I feel hopeful for the future! ❤
Thank you for making these videos. I wasn’t raised in the Mormon church. I’ve lived in an area where there seem to be a lot of them. I have several neighbors who are Mormon. I want to understand them better and when I’ve asked questions, I was told that they couldn’t tell me anything because it would be “throwing pearls to swine.” If they in fact see non-Mormons as “swine” I guess that would explain a lot of the things my Mormon neighbors do to non-Mormon neighbors. 😢
So, Joseph Smith conned Emma into marrying him, clearly because she came from money and then he proceeded to cheat on her repeatedly under the pretense of polygamy. Extremely sad.
Joseph Smith’s problem was men DID KNOW his history
I’m not Mormon, but I did sit with a good friend while they went through a multi-year faith crisis and ultimately left LDS. These videos you make are so helpful, kind, and informative-honestly even healing for me, as I still process many of my discussions with this friend years later. Thank you.
Hi Alyssa,
I'm not a Mormon and never have been but my heart went out to you. I wish I could have comforted you in some way. Thank you for your honesty and bravery.
Thank you for your candor and vulnerability. I stopped attending church 10 years ago, but have just recently started the hard work of deconstructing. I appreciate your videos. They have helped me feel less confused and alone.
I enjoyed the graphic novel about Joseph Smith's life by Noah Van Sciver. I think it showed that he had a box with something heavy inside. He told people they must not look inside the box, but to take his word for it that the plates were in there. He let someone hold it to feel how heavy it was. It would make sense that he didn't want anyone to steal the box. I'm guessing there were just some rocks in it to make it heavy.
That graphic novel sounds great, I’ll check it out! ☺️
I've looked into this somewhat: There were 3 groups of witnesses. The first, the 'three witnesses', claimed to see an angel in the woods holding the tablets. One years later said they only saw the tablets 'in vision'. The others did not contradict this, though they did not confirm it either. There is a lot more with those 3: one later recanted fully and another abandoned Smith, joining one of the Mormon off-shoots, for instance. Some of it is in the video but anyway, that would take too long to go into in full. The other set of witnesses (the 10 I think) we have an odd sort-of contradiction. One of them that gave interviews later claimed all were together. Another claimed they were split into 2 groups. Assuming the first merely meant that there were a bunch of people in the room and he kind of assumed it was everyone, we can examine further without supposing any real contradiction. The second says that for his group, they were only allowed to hold an object covered in a cloth (he does not mention a box exactly, just that it was roughly box shaped). He says they were allowed to heft it and it was indeed heavy enough that it could be metal tablets. The person from the other group, which according to the one who said there were two groups consisted mostly of Smith family members, claims they saw the typical description of the plates (gold colored, writing on them, etc) and were allowed to turn the pages.
The first possible inference is that the group that was Smith's family were just lying, as they were not exactly unbiased witnesses. However it is also possible Smith had a mock-up. It needn't be particularly GOOD, as the only ones seeing it would be family who wouldn't question too closely. The (relatively) neutral witnesses would just hold it covered up.
Separate from this is the transcription, during which the transcriber (who I believe was one of the 3 witnesses later) never saw the plates: Smith had them in something dark (sometimes said to be a hat, though that contradicts the size descriptions given later) and would read the translation 'one character at a time' (presumably indicating a word-character language) using the seer stones.
Great video Alyssa. Being a secondary school teacher for teens in the Caribbean. The Mormon church is super secretive here. Appreciate your hard work 🇹🇹 💝
As a never mormon I found all this fascinating. I grew up with a few LDS friends and one of them is a Bishop. Thank you for sharing your journey and being so transparent!
Thank you for your vulnerability at the end. Thank you for your compassion for those new to this process. You are so strong to feel for others so deeply. 💜
You are an honest seeker of truth. Thank you for sharing your beliefs!!! You are a very gifted speaker!! I may not agree with you on everything but appreciate that you are standing up for your beliefs!!! A latter day saint friend!!!
Recently moved to Southern Idaho and decided I’d better become educated on Mormonism. Absolutely did not expect to feel so… aghast? I wasn’t vulnerable to this cult before learning (because I already escaped brief association with Christian Fundamentalism as a minor), but now I can coherently explain why if needed. I appreciate your videos!
Joseph Smith sounds like a crazy person - the story just doesn’t add up. I’m so sorry that you had to grow up this way. Remember, your family and fellow church members didn’t know better.
Please consider that tears are the safety valve of the heart. You’ve been through a “death” and grieving catches you off guard when you are least expecting it. Please even tell the little you that “when you knew better, you did better”.
I just discovered your channel, originally because of a RUclips suggestion that I clicked randomly for some background noise I didn't expect to have much interest in. But wow, the way you related this information in such a clear and compelling way was enthralling! My only real experience with Mormonism was a "friend" trying to bully into joining in high school and bad experiences in college... and now all those events have greater context for me.
Joseph Smith must have been a genius. I’m sure he must have had help for the undertaking of creative writing to put together the Book of Mormon. I’ll bet he saw that there was profit to be made from religion. It’s an engenius idea to establish a new religion with himself as the head. Who would be in a better position to profit if not the head? It’s mind blowing.
Thank you for making your videos. I grew up devout Christian and slowly started to realize how much of “faith” is just a codeword for ignorance in the church. Its an amazingly built system that has a catch-all for every problem a dissenting religious person might have with the religion to keep them believing, keep them spreading the religion through their children and evangelizing, and to keep them not thinking for themselves. I don’t have anything against people who believe in religion, if it helps them get through their life in a positive way then i wouldnt want to take that from them. but i have everything against the people who concocted a manipulative scheme to gain power, money, and control over people. To have your entire life defined on lies someone told before you were even born is an insane feat, and the saddest part is most of the people still believing today can’t imagine life without it and need to convince themselves its true in order to survive.
As an outsider, me thinks Joseph Smith be a man of very Tall Tales. 😅
The Indian battle scene with broadswords, forts, and such is reminiscent of European battles.
It's really convenient that these plates happen to be in JSs backyard. At least he didn't have to walk to Arizona (not convenient 🙄).
JS later pulls that Egyptian hieroglyphic story, when he translates The Book of Abraham. It's later found out he scammed everyone by 'translating' a common funerary rite. 😮
Why would stones appear with the plates? Oh, of course, that's how Joe already reads things, by using rocks 😅
You are so brilliant! Can't wait for our show next week!!
Looking at all these LD$ Patterns I cant help but think of yesterday Day 7 Chad Daybell! omg another NETFLIX.Murder.Amongst.The.Mormons Docu-Series coming! (which had nothing to do with this case) ! That one was the Mark Hoffman case. Or Ted.Bundy- Josh.Powell- Haight.Family- Lori.Vallow- Megan.Huntsman etc..Thnx JoeSmith
You are doing a great work, exposing all this.
Another absolutely fascinating video. I've heard most of this from other sources, but it is really interesting to hear it from an ex Mormon POV. You approach things differently, with an understanding of how someone could believe what looks absolutely ridiculous from the outside.
Also, your message of It Gets Better was very powerful.
Off to the second (third for me) video.
I watched this film at the visitors center in Kensington, MD. When the missionaries asked me what I thought I tried to be pleasant and said it was okay. But in reality it is way too corny for today’s enlightened crowd. IMHO everyone who attends the MTC should as a condition of their mission be required to completely read the Bible, the BOM, and understand the doctrine and covenants. I was startled when missionaries confessed that they had done none of these.
Your videos give me the chills knowing exactly what I avoided by refusing baptism. I really do miss the friendships I made in the ward and also at the stake center and I also admired the community but simply couldn’t get past the thought that Joseph Smith was the greatest con artist this country ever produced.
Elmer Gantry?
Touché
I really appreciated this video and especially the ending. It’s not often we see the pain that comes with leaving. I love you Alyssa
I'm glad you left in the part at the end -- it takes strength to be vulnerable!
If you have not yet read “Under the Banner of Heaven” by Jon Krakauer, it is a fascinating exploration of the history of Mormon fundamentalism and its relationship to the mainstream organization.
I'm 76 and I am a Christian, brought up Lutheran. I'm interested in Morman and heard one video of yours about clothes and decided I want to learn more about Morman. I also lost a friendship of a dear friend because she was Catholic and after her beloved husband died, she married an older Morman man. I need to know answers and in so doing, I'm listening to al your videos. Bless you.
Aw, god damn, I wanted to hug you so much when you started crying 🥺
I know how it’s like to have rose coloured glasses ripped off of you - albeit not regarding Mormonism.
But I get it. It’s super scary. And so damn confusing. And then it gets infuriating. Like, you almost go through all stages of grief with it.
And the sunk cost fallacy is kicking hard as well.
But know: No time spend on something is never truly lost. Cus that time made you who you are. It set you on a path that is truly yours.
I mean, for you, without your faith you never would have met your husband. Never would have met this incredible diverse set of people in New York. Never would have had this channel to educate and connect with people. Never would have written a book that truly will help people navigate their own doubts by giving them a guiding hand.
Even if you’re not a believer anymore. Even if the thing you spend so much of your life on isn’t part of your current reality.
The time you spend on something is never truly lost. ♥️
I cried with you. I'm so glad that you found your way. Keep speaking the truth, shining light in the dark, and whacking pinatas!
People believe because they are taught to believe and if that is all one knows, then the Mormon church continues to be real in the minds of the believer.
I grew up super fundamentalist Christian. I remember hearing about what LDS believed and thinking, "yall believe in some cooky stuff." 10 years later I asked questions about my own beliefs. So much egg on my face.
Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God who worshipped Jesus Christ and translated the Book of Mormon from plates of brass preserved over time by the hand of God. The Book of Mormon is complimentary to the Bible and another witness of the same gospel of Jesus Christ...the only name whereby we can be saved.
After Joseph Smith was murdered in June of 1844, Brigham Young led many saints to SLC, Utah...while many others did not go (including Emma Smith, Joseph's only wife). Brigham Young was a false teacher and prophet who introduced several abominable practices into his denomination, including polygamy, men becoming Gods, God once being a man, blood atonement of men, a heavenly mother, and secret penal oath temple rituals. He corrupted the true History of the Church to pretend that those teachings came from Joseph Smith in order to gain support....and many today are still under that deception.
God is real, kid.
Thank you for your vulnerability at the end of this video. It can be hard for people to truly understand how devastating it is to learn these things after being so deeply rooted in this religion your whole life.
I love your videos!! ❤
This was your best video ever. Absolutely honest and raw and well intentioned. Thank you for sharing. People who are genuinely searching are truly desperate for the TRUTH. We can only pray for those who do not seek truth.
You know exactly what I need on a grey Sunday morning, I have been hooked on your channel from your second video and so happy that you are finding your voice 💖
He's one of the most hilariously obvious grifters - like you hear the stories and it's just like... how did anyone fall for this?
The question is you really believe this bitter woman who uses sarcasm, lies and even criminal activity to persecute the church? Wise up!
@@tucuxi70 explain how he isn't a con man
hmmmmm, there is some type of person born every minute...
We have a hilariously obvious grifter running around right now that millions believe in.
@@ivyc4415who
Recent subscriber here. I feel like often, both popular and scholarly critical analysis of Mormonism can come with an unhelpful side of sensationalism-I definitely saw this firsthand this when I researched it in a college religion course. What you do with this channel is so great not only because you are accurate and researched, but also because your criticisms are never in the service of superiority over current believers. Your in-depth research keeps viewers invested for almost two hours, but the last five minutes is what separates you from others-your empathy is a breath of fresh air
You are such a beautiful soul. I’ve never been religious of any kind but I have been binge watching your videos. I cried with you through the end of this video thanks for leaving it in. Having your entire life’s belief system shattered is devastating and so incredibly hard to go through. I admire your compassion and the knowledge you are sharing. You are helping so many free themselves and it’s beautiful to watch.
I'm very proud of you for leaving the church. I can only imagine how hard it was for you. I would think having family history so deep rooted in the religion, would make it harder to leave.