What Does Calvinism Really Teach?
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Hank Hanegraaff, the host of the Bible Answer Man broadcast, addresses the question, "Does Calvinism teach that we are predestined to heaven or hell no matter what we do?"
To read the articles Hank references in the Christian Research Journal, see the following:
The Divine Sovereignty/Human Responsibility Debate: Part 1 - www.equip.org/a...
The Divine Sovereignty/Human Responsibility Debate: Part 2 - www.equip.org/a...
How Should Christians Approach the Problem of Evil? - www.equip.org/a...
✅ For more questions answered by Hank, get his book "The Complete Bible Answer Book" on Amazon. amzn.to/36bfbPS.
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#hankhanegraaff #bibleanswerman #calvinism
Unfortunately this “in-house debate“ has allowed Calvinism to take over the church. Calvinism should not be an in-house debate because it is actually another gospel in another God. I was a calvinist for 17 years and my life was flipped upside down when I realized I had been missed lead for that long. The Bible open my eyes to the truth and that is that God creates all with hope for eternal life and offers it to anyone who believes not just a select special few. This changes the character of God as well as the work of Jesus because he died for the whole world not just for those select few. It is not an in-house debate everyone to stop just settling for that! We must proclaim the accurate character of God to the world and the accurate work of Jesus to the world!
I totally agree with you. Why would Hank call this an in house debate but condemn Mormans or JW's I don't see why they are considered heretics but not Calvinist.
I totally agree with you. Thank you. I hope hank sees what you have said here. It is so true. God bless you
Well what you described is not biblical Calvinism but rather unbiblical hyper Calvinism. I would say this too you, the same words the Lord spoke through the Apostle
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-
Romans 9:14-23 ESV
If you believe in my word then truly you are my disciple. !
Crazy stuff , flip the coin and I hear testimonies from people who say the exact same thing that you said but from the other position. Or you get the famous [ I prayed to God for direction]. And both people regardless on what they believe on this subject ,can and do produce fruit of the spirit.
@@Terrylb285 they produce fruit because God is good and loves the whole world. That doesn't mean that the whole world is saved but that's God's desire. I don't see the same argument on the other side
What about Luke 13:34
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.
Shouldn’t we take Christ own words instead? God longing to gather his children and giving them so many opportunities but they were (key word) “not willing”
To me that’s free will
Also Genesis, Deuteronomy, Ezekiel, 1 John, and Revelation. God is grieved by sin, choose life, God takes no delight in the death of the wicked, if any man sin we have an advocate with the Father - Jesus Christ the righteous, and He is the propitiation of sin - and not ours only, but the sins of the whole world, whosoever will let him come and take the water of life freely, &c. In an attempt to systematically explain every facet of God's Sovereignty, Calvinist theology shrinks God, puts Him into a box, and makes Him into a monster. Calvinism leaves no room or space for Divine Mystery. It is thus with many schools of systematic theology.
@@jayveebee2095 Yes its a crap theology.
I agree with you. To my understanding the Almighty knows what were going to do before we do it but He knows all. He gave us the ability to choose or reject Him. That's the definition of free will. The ability to think and choose. Telling people they're saved or damned from the beginning distorts and corrupts the Word by putting chains on peoples ability to believe. Its sad. Its like stealing. Obviously The Lord doesn't lie but humans constantly try to twist His words.
Then I guess there are many contradictions then. No man CAN come to me unless it has been GRANTED by the Father! John 6:65. All the Father gives me WILL Come to me. John 6:37a. Of all he has given me I lose NONE but raise it up on the last day. John 6:39. You do not believe because you are not of my sheep. John 10:26. The good Shepherd lays down his life FOR THE SHEEP. John 10:11. None are naturally willing according to Jesus. Let's take all the scriptures, You were slain and ransomed people OUT OF every tribe, tongue, people and nation. Revelation 5:9. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Romans 9:15. So it does not depend on human will or exertion, but on God who has mercy. Romans 9:16. But when he who set me apart and called me by his grace WAS PLEASED to reveal his Son to me. Galatians 1:16. No man knows the Son and anyone to whom the Son CHOOSES to reveal him. Matthew 11:27. It's just everywhere, what do you do with these, pretend they don't really say, what they do, indeed, say?
@@timdodenhoff7942You just need to listen to a non Calvinist explain those verses to you. Leighton Flowers does a pretty good job.
Anyone who believes the Gospel can be assured of salvation: For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." (Romans 10:10-11 NKJ)
As a Calvinist, it used to give me goosebumps too.
Now, having been corrected by proper Christology, it gives me goosebumps to think that Calvinist's affirm that God also chose the baby to be ripped from the crib and violently raped by a pedophile who has no other choice available to him because of the decree....all for the glory of God, who cannot be fully glorified unless he ordains such.
Forgive my vivid example, but it highlights the reality.
You described it perfectly. God is not the author of evil.
You nailed it
If you look at Calvinism historically, you find that Calvin's teachings are from Augustine of Hippo. a 4th Century bishop from Africa. If you look at Augustine, he was a member of the Manichean Gnostic sect for 10 years before he became a Christian. If you compare what Mani, the originator of Manichean Gnosticism believed, you find that it is nearly identical to what Augustine came to believe, and what John Calvin claimed! Also, if you look at the early Church Fathers before Augustine, you do not find a single one of them who believed anything even close to Augustine's beliefs. I studied Gnosticism for 10 years, never committing to believing it, but fascinated by the belief system that they had. Gnosticism was the first major heresy that the Christian church had to contend with, and I find that the fatalism that Calvinism projects is at complete odds with what the Bible teachers. In fact, I would go so far to say that Calvinists and I do not worship the same God.
robertm2000
You wouldn’t happen to know of a source that compares Manicheanism with Calvinism, do you?
Thanks and God bless
Thank you. I agree
Calvinist believe God's grace is finite while the Bible teaches God's grace is infinite.
Also, clarifying what Calvinists actually believe and removing misconceptions is a lot different from defending Calvinism.
If it was predestined, then what’s the point of God sending prophets to them? He might as well not have done anything if he knew they were never going to listen and reject them.
What's the point of Jesus dying on the cross for those who were going to be saved regardless?
What's the point of the end times judgement if God is going to condemn those He predestined to eternal damnation because He forced them to reject Him?
There's so many biblical doctrines that can't jive with calvinism.
They've built an entire doctrine from a few proof texts that are taken out of context and removed from the whole of scripture.
God does not want ANYONE to perish! NUFF said!
I’m sure since Hank has transitioned to orthodoxy he would answer this question very differently now. Calvinism is not an in house debate. It’s a direct assault on the goodness and nature of God. Calvinism makes God the author of evil and He gets great pleasure in doing so. This is very twisted and not orthodox Christian understanding of the nature of God. Read the Ante-Nicene Fathers, Calvinism is modern day Gnosticism.
Calvinism is heretical. I agree with Cole and also note that Hank Hanegraaf has since embraced the Apostolic Faith catholic (universal), the "faith once delivered," the Faith of the Apostles. Additionally, it is worth noting how Hanegraaf was publicly excoriated by John MacArthur in one of the most uncharitable, un-Christian manners imaginable.
Romans 9:18-23 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
What is the purpose of this video?! Hank doesn't answer anything. He just refers the caller to other 'articles.'
It's Hank Hanegraaff. Did you expect something better?
This was no help Hank. Thanks for nothing. I still love you
Hank usually answers pretty directly, but Calvinism is always one of those super complicated things to address. I mean good gravy, have you ever talked to a Calvinists before? So much detailed info man. It doesn't suprise me he kinda just said "read some articles".
You may be missing the point. As Hank says this is an “in house” debate. Either side of the debate are Christian. For Hank to describe in any fair and equitable manner the tenets of Calvinism this video would have been days long. That is not the purpose of “The Bible Answer Man” program. You must investigate on your own in a careful, systematic and prayerful way.
Perhaps he left open the question of predestination according to Calvin in this video because he could not confirm it. Five years later he would definitely answer the question by entering into communion with Eastern Orthodoxy, where teachings particular to Calvin like God's preordaining of the just and the damned are non-existent.
Romans 9 is not talking about creating pots for damnation. Read all the OT references that are quoted in Rom 9. Pharoah is not raised up "that I might damn him" but that God's name is declared in the earth. Esau's birthright is turned on it's head not because he is elect for damnation, but God is pleased to bring the savior by promise through Jacob. "Two nations are in thy womb" says the OT ref. The very ones said to be hardened, blinded, fallen, broken off are able to be grafted back in Rom 11.
You did what I had predicted. Instead of saying "I know Jesus died for my sins because this passage says so" and then providing the verse, you first pointed to 'all who truly believe... and find Christ.' I ask 'truly believe what?' How can you believe what you have never heard of; that is, Christ's death on the cross for YOU? You immediately went to an analysis of your own action. You know because you believe. But in your theology you never first heard a gospel with you as its direct object.
Oh, that's right. Your bible stops at Romans 9. If it contained Romans 10, it would say, "But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down) or ‘Who will descend into the deep? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming."
Why call this an in-house debate when many Arminians call Calvinists heretics, or even completely outside the Christian faith?
What must I do to be saved? What must (I) do to be saved? What must (me) do to be saved? A Calvinist will answer God has to save you. The work of salvation was completed on the cross. It is finished! Paul told the jailor to be saved he had to believe ( have faith) in Jesus Christ. FAITH IS NOT A WORK!! Can I ask you .... Do you believe planes can fly? If you say yes... What work did you do in turning the turbines? Causing lift? Did you pilot that plane flying over from the ground? Did your faith do any work in that plane? So my faith in Jesus Christ does not do the work in salvation.
@@johnhillsbery7113 You fly? How many parts to the plane do you have faith in? 🙄 In other words you wouldn't even board a plane without faith. 😉
@@johnhillsbery7113 🤣😂 So so. Doctors perform operations and people still die. So are you suggesting that no one gets an operation? 🙄 Everyday in life you exhibit faith. Simply turning on a light switch or sitting in a chair. You don't inspect the wiring or the material and yet electrical fires and chairs fail. I suggest you look at what you have faith in instead of trying to deny you don't have any. 😒
@@johnhillsbery7113 Great comeback!! Your awesome!! Your just hilarious. I can't stop laughing. 🙄😉😒
Romans 11 uses the analogy more specifically within this covenantal shift and says those "cast away", "broken off branches", "enemies", "disobedient", "cut off", can be "reconciled", "grafted back in", may become "beloved", within this new covenantal paradigm. Both Jews and Gentiles were vessels of wrath, now both may obtain mercy. And after the Gentiles receive mercy, St. Paul warns them they may be cut off again.
Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us diffuses the fragrance of His knowledge in every place. (2 Corinthians 2:14 NKJ)
Acts 13:48 ...and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.Non Calvinists teach what it doesn't say ,it doesn't say "as many as believed were appointed to eternal life".You can't change the Bible just because you don't like what it says people.
I understand and appreciate your sincerity. I left evangelicalism for Calvinism because of it's seemingly lofty view of God. God was no longer a buddy. But theres a reason this was rejected by the ancient church, it violates proper Trinitarian and Christological truths. Calvinism has only the unchangable decree for all causation, which leaves no human freedom, even in Christ. Every atomic movement is by decree. Every sin is decreed for his glory. Evil is necessary for God in Calvinism.
Is it the best thing for God to do to create people who are predestined to go to Hell? Or were we better off not existing? If God truly wants to be good, he has to do what is best for everyone.
God did the best by willingly dying for you and all who would simply believe in him. what more do you want ,egg in your beer?
@@frankcaciques1318 don't tell that to a calvinist, they'll deny it.
It is an "in-house" debate if the house is one on the edge of an eroding cliff. Praise God that Hank found his way to Orthodoxy, away from that house on the sand and toward the rock.
Blessings to you!
If you don't know that God is not the author of evil, then you don't know God. God is light and in him is no darkness at all. If God was the author, as the Calvinists believe, of all things, then why does the Bible say he's not the author of confusion? Anyone who believes that God ordained everything that comes to pass even our sinful desires, doesn't know God. If Calvinism is not a cult, then could someone other than a Calvinist explain to me how it could not be?
Why do some Calvinists deny that they believe that God is responsible for evil? If you believe that for God to be completely sovereign he must have pre-ordained (pre-scripted) everything that happens then he has to be responsible for sin. The bible is clear that God's will is that man be holy and righteous so his "secret council or will" can only mean that he contradicts his revealed will. The God of Calvinism has to be a schizophrenic.
Since all Calvinists I have ever talked with claim to be atoned for, is that not de facto universalism?
One more thought: Ask a Calvinist how they know they are 'died for.' Listen to their answers. Do they point to scripture that tells them that Christ died for them? No. They point to their experience. They think they have faith and good works. How is that different from the Arminianism they supposedly despise? It's not. They practice free will, all the while denying it.
don't care what Paul said if there is a heaven, its how you live your life that'll decide if you get there. My opinions as good as anyone.
Protestants FEAR reading ALL of the Bible!!!!!!!!!!!! As James says "for we are saved by WORKS and NOT by faith ALONE!!!!!!!!!!". ( James 2:24)
Jesus said to me that my sins are forgiven. Who am I to dispute his declaration? Ob, by the way, that's what faith is.
The Bible has scriptures that seems to support Calvinism, Arminianism, Open Theism if they are left to stand alone....We must always check the intended context of each "proof text", we must not make a doctrine based a one scripture, two or three obscure scriptures and must avoid letting our "views' determine a scriptures meaning. Instead of focusing on a man's system of theology as "Gospel Truth" , keep an open mind and let scripture interpret scripture along with the Holy Spirit, everything else is opinion.
Renee, I recommend you look up some of the work by the biblical scholar Brian J. Abasciano on Romans 9. He has been writing a three-volume series on that passage, and he disagrees with Calvinism's interpretation of the passage.
Dr.Ralph Yankee Arnold is a great teacher/preacher!.Most born again Christians avoid calling the TULIP theology/doctrine a heresy (for fear of offending Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists ), not this pastor he goes right to the issue and call things the way they are!.To me the Jesus Christ and God the Father pictured and presented by Augustine of Hippo and John Calvin are another Jesus Christ and another God the Father from what the Holy Scriptures clearly shows and teach.Dr.Yankee is completely correct, here is an example of TULIP theology in action:
If 2 babies are born at the same hour and just minutes apart in the same hospital, how would the babies parents would know if those 2 babies are elected/chosen for salvation or if one is chosen/elected while the other is not?.
Then if one is chosen and the other is not, by God's decree and sovereignty, what would happen if the baby that was not elected died within days of been born?.If that baby was not elected, will he not be able to enter into the kingdom of heaven? .If not, then where will God send that baby that was not elected/chosen for salvation?.ALL THESE QUESTIONS NEED TO BE ANSWERED IF WE ARE TO CLAIM THAT GOD CHOOSE/ELECTS THOSE WHO WOULD BE SAVED FROM ETERNITY PAST AND WILLINGLY OVERLOOK/IGNORES ALL THOSE WHO ARE NOT CHOSEN/ELECTED !.
Would the God of Augustine of Hippo and John Calvin willingly send a non elected/non chosen new born baby who have just died to hell even though NO SIN CAN BE IMPUTED TO THE SWEET LITTLE BABY?.Without THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LAW THERE CAN NOT BE NO TRANSGRESSION/SIN ( Roman 4:14-15) , if the baby has NOT transgressed God's Law then on what grounds is he condemned?.
Surely this "GIANT" of the Faith called John Calvin don't expect me to believe that a new born baby KNOWS THE LAW OF GOD GIVEN TO MOSES AND THE MEANING OF TRANSGRESSION/SIN.SORRY MR.Calvin but you have to do better than that if you expect me to believe that your MAN MADE AND NON INSPIRED BY THE HOLY GHOST doctrine of TULIP is based on the TRUE AND UNADULTERATED GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST!.
Would the God of Calvinism have more mercy on a dog that has just died and just eliminates its soul/spirit without any further punishment and yet would allow a non elected new born baby ,made in God's image who just died, to go TO HELL AND SUFFER FOR EVER AND EVER WITHOUT MERCY?. Folks , that is not the God the Father preached/taught and worshiped by Abraham, Moses, King David, Elijah, Jesus Christ and His 12 apostles!!!!.I have never known The God of Calvinism and don't wish to know anything connected to him any time soon. The God of Jesus Christ (God the Father) , Abraham, Moses and the apostles, that is a God of MERCY, LOVE AND COMPASSION whom I love and worship with all my mind, spirit and soul!.
In plain words, Calvinism is another gospel just as the Jehovah Witnesses , Mormonism, 7th day Adventists and Catholicism ALL are another gospel.All are heresies which contradict the true and genuine Gospel presented, preached and taught by TRUE apostles of Jesus Christ like Paul, Peter, James and John!.
I agree 100% with Dr.Ralph Yankee.
J.McArthur, J.Piper, Dr.James White, Augustine of Hippo, John Calvin , Charles Tazel Russell, Joseph Smith, Ellen G.White, Oneness Pentecostals and Catholics , all are heretics preaching another gospel and another Jesus Christ!.
I would never call a heretic my brother in Christ because you can not be IN Christ while you preach, teach and practice another gospel and presents another Jesus Christ.You can not drink from the cup of God and from the cup of demons (doctrines of demons) and yet expect to be called a child of the ALL MIGHTY GOD!.
We call you experienced based Christians 'enthusiasts.' We don't say you are not Christians or are not saved. but when trial or death draws near, and doubts assail, your experiences can become a maelstrom from which you may not escape. But Word and sacrament always assure the sinner.
I am confessionally Lutheran. Augsburg Confession. Luther's Small Catechism and Large Catechism, Smalcald Articles, Apology of the Augsburg Confession, Epitome of the Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord; indeed the entire Book of Concord, completed by 1577. This is the Lutheran faith. You can deny it all you like, but it just shows that you don't know Luther or Lutheranism.
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, (2 Timothy 1:9 NKJ)
Great Renee, at least there is ONE person out there who can just let s the words on the pages of the Bible speak.
As a non-theist, I can particularly appreciate Calvinism, and I grasp the potentially inexorable reality that I myself have more than likely been predestined for damnation from the beginning. I will still be open to religion, as I always have been, in case I am wrong about that, but it certainly helps to understand why many of us can never seem to ‘find” God, despite genuinely looking. 🤷🏼♂️🪦🔥
Are you sure that this God who creates people for hell does not also put false ideas into their minds? Ideas that might lead them to conclude that they are really elect? And how do you determine which you are?
@TheEvaAngelina as a former calvinist I agree 100%. That's what it leads to via inference, when taken to its logical conclusion.
Calvinism is theological novelty, pure and simple. It didn't exist as part of the Gospel until a teenager in France created it in the 16th century. It is not the Gospel, just a man-created theory about how God works. God is reduced to a random mechanism without truth or beauty as realities, just power and random will. The atoning death of Christ becomes just a legal gimmick rather than the self-offering of Christ to the whole world.
Faith is the noun describing the verb believe. To believe is to trust in the promise of another. In this context it is strictly passive, as similar verbs 'receive' 'trust' 'depend'
In any event, it is the veracity of the one who makes the promise that is key. The promise is true if the one who speaks it is true. Christ cannot lie, and so his word to you and me in the gospel, both Word and sacrament, are true. Our sins are forgiven, for his sake. There are no moving parts on our end.
I don't have a problem understanding that some people are doomed to go to hell, "no matter what they do". An individual decides to accept Jesus or not, but God knows beforehand how he will decide. God sees human history like it's spread out on a table. He sees the beginning, the end and everything inbetween at the same time. He is eternal and doesn't live in time like man does. So he knows (or has preordained) who will be saved and who not, if you put it that way.
You are correct we are limited to 4 dimensions, height,width,length and time . God exists outside of these dimensions. Eph 3:16-19 comes to mind.
well then , in view of the fact that Calvin was a murderer and in all probability never saw the error in his actions where must we assume his soul resides?
@antonfarquar8799How do you know Calvin had no regrets about Servetus? What about Moses and David, they both committed murder, are we to be agnostic on where their souls reside?
That Servetus was executed for heresy is undeniable. If not Geneva, the heretic in the sixteenth century would have faced the same judgment in Rome, England, and/or other Christian countries.
The fact that modern Christian world would never approve of and/or carry out the execution of heretics is a move in the right direction.
Be we are far from the place of judging Calvin and Geneva’s motives. That prerogative is Christ’s alone.
@@BibleAnswerMan To say that Calvin's sadistic execution of an honorable man can be papered over by comparing a dyspeptic heretic's self willed actions to the crimes of David and Moses is a reductio ad absurdum. The writer makes it very clear that God looked upon Uriah with great favor as he was an honorable and courageous man and that David would suffer for his treachery . Moses was rebuked by his own countryman, Exodus 2:11-15 - “Who made you our ruler and judge?" Calvin corresponded with Servetus who was intellectually head and shoulders above Calvin . What made Calvin's crime far worse than those of David or Moses was that he imputed God's imprimatur in order to justify the deed. He turned God's Christian message on its head. Calvin was outside of his authority - as you say - " That prerogative is Christ's alone." No, I don't think that Calvin ever looked back.
"For My people are foolish, They have not known Me. They are silly children, And they have no understanding. They are wise to do evil, But to do good they have no knowledge." (Jeremiah 4:22 NKJ)
Also, the writer Luke (I don't think he was even present on this occasion), to complete the Calvinist interpretation, would need to know infallibly that only those who believed that day were ordained for eternal life, no one else who heard that day would ever come to faith even at a later date. And also know infallibly that there were no false believers or any who would fall away.
Gal. 3:12 The righteousness of the law is to obey the law. The righteousness of faith is to believe. The law requires us to give something to God, but faith does not require us to do anything or give anything to God except that we should believe God’s promise and receive it from him. Therefore, what the law does is to work, AND WHAT FAITH DOES IS TO ASSENT TO THE PROMISES.
Luther, M. (1998). Galatians. Crossway Classic Commentaries (149). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books.
1. If one is doomed they will not be convicted of sin and will not repent.
2. God ordains ends as well as means. Those who are elect were ordained to come to faith in a certain way. My doing evangelism and my preaching may be the ordained means by which one of the elect comes to faith.
In chapters 9, 10 and 11, St. Paul teaches us about the eternal providence of God. It is the original source which determines who would believe and who wouldn't, who can be set free from sin and who cannot. Such matters have been taken out of our hands and are put into God's hands so that we might become virtuous. It is absolutely necessary that it be so, for we are so weak and unsure of ourselves that, if it depended on us, no human being would be saved. The devil would overpower all of us. -ML
When it comes to Calvinism people hate it, because they think God is unfair, people hate that God does what he wants. When you read the scriptures it isn't that hard to see it there, people just don't like it, so they'll gather people around them or teachers to try to help them feel better, because they don't want a God that chooses who he will save and who he will not! We just can't stomach it that God isn't what WE want or think he should be!
This is one of the things wrong with Calvinists. You keep TELLING me instead of ASKING me why I reject Calvinism, AND YOU'RE ALWAYS WRONG. That does nothing for your CREDIBILITY.
Quit posting foolish assumptions.
Let's be clear here. The Bible says that election takes place prior to creation: just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, (Eph 1:4) Pray tell how would I choose myself by free will before I even existed? Your logic is truly amazing:) I'm impressed. Secondly, since God must regenerate me before I am able to believe, how could I possibly give myself the ability to believe? Dead men cannot believe anything, except I am 1st raised from spiritual death (Eph 2:3)
60. Q. How are you righteous before God?
A. Only by a true faith in Jesus Christ; that is, though my conscience accuse me that I have grievously sinned against all the commandments of God and kept none of them, and am still inclined to all evil, yet God, without any merit of mine, of mere grace, grants and imputes to me the perfect satisfaction, righteousness, and holiness of Christ, ... Heidelberg Catechism Part 1
As an Orthodox this is not an issue/problem of Orthodoxy. Calvin could only impose his own papist-like interpretation of Holy Scripture apart from Holy Tradition through the egg that Rome laid: Protestantism.
Peter said, "No Scripture is of private interpretation," and yet Calvin after Calvin responds to this video with ,"Calvin," was onto something and the like. Yeah..and the same was said by the followers of Arius, Nestorius, Apollinaris, Dioscorus, etc... the list goes on throughout the subsequent years and centuries. These men were all condemned as heretics and so is John Calvin. His teaching like all of denominationalism is, and sadly, outside of Holy Tradition and has precipitated a seemly never ending fragmentation because they are continuing in trying to "reform," or "define," what The Church is Dogmatically in its Catholicity. There is a movement that is shaking Protestantism especially in this current religious and political quagmire that has upon the whole world. Many are longing for Truth and they are researching and going back to the beginning and they are finding out about The Orthodox Church that has the Fullness of Faith: Unbroken and Unchanged, keeping The Traditions that were handed down by The Apostles and living out that Faith in holiness and faithfulness in hope faith and love with fear and trembling. I've been in fellowship with quite a few former Calvinists who are coming home to the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church!! I look forward to celebrating with them!
Faith rests on the promise. The promise does not rely on faith. As Luther says, "Because there is forgiveness, there is salvation and life." It does not work the other way around, as in "Because there is salvation and life, there is forgiveness." That would be Calvinistic and Arminian reasoning, the Protestant bedfellows.
No, because they are said to stand by FAITH. v19
Same thing in Heb 10, those have been sanctified by his blood v29 and have free access to draw near with full assurance of FAITH v22.
Hebrews 6 they are said to be "babes" in Christ and in v9-12 St. Paul is hopeful of things that accompany the "salvation" which they have already demonstrated but warns them not to become sluggish but inherit the promises.
Was St. Paul standing by faith in 1 Cor 9:27 or was he a possible tare?
"And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, 77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people By the remission of their sins, (Luke 1:76-77 NKJ)
To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, To guide our feet into the way of peace." (Luke 1:79 NKJ)
Let’s try this Hank...CALVINISM is SATANISM is a different dress/coat in that like Satan, Calvin uses God breathed scripture, but twists them beyond context thus creating a pretext (i.e. doctrines is demons) that sounds like it could be possible but it’s not (possible) when the Word is rightly divided.
2Tim 3:16-17 (KJV)
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The text does not say He died for all without exception. In fact, since the entire book of Romans is addressed to Christians it is apparent that "all" in this context refers to believers. Read 5:1-11 again carefully. If Jesus died for Christians while they were YET sinners and unbelievers, surely you get predestination and election out of that:)
Just because Paul tells men that they may be cut off doesn't mean it will happen.Men don't know the future,but God does,again meaning He created men to leave in their sin on purpose.
I once asked a Calvinist friend, an old pastory actually, how he knew Christ died for him. He answered as you do, "I know because I know."
The BIG question is: For whom did Christ die?
I encourage people to watch the video with that title by John Macarthur.
But more importantly, READ THE GOSPEL OF JOHN AND THE VERY WORDS OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF. Jesus declared the doctrines titled (correctly titled or not...) TULIP in the Gospel of John in particular.
If you ignore or reject the words of Christ, you have no business claiming to be in the faith. Also, Romans 9 is very clear and vigorously opposed by many.
And how did you determine that you have been regenerated. Was it a really big goosebump? Did you see sparks fly? I only ask because I know you did not hear an 'extra nos' objective word telling you that your sins are forgiven, because you have time after time denied that. Once again, you probably determined it by free will or something. This experience based religion is what Luther decried as 'enthusiasm.'
"I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. (John 10:14 NKJ)
"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. (John 10:26-27 NKJ)
Yes the Bible calls Christ's sheep those who believe and follow him! Yet calvinism teaches that people are his sheep before they follow Christ. That would contradict Jesus plain teaching for to be his sheep we must enter through the gate.
No, the believer who accepts the Gospel message by assenting to being condemned by the law and promised salvation by mercy and grace alone is assured that God keeps His promises. 2 Corinthians 1:20
Faith is a gift produced by the very proclamation you despise, that Christ has died and risen for you. It is not free will assent.
If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God, if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
I have consistently held to an objective word from outside of us that declares to us the forgiveness of our sins. That is justification. God's declaration, based on Jesus' life, death, resurrection and ascension, that we are now just. That message, whether proclaimed in preaching or in sacraments, puts to death our old man, and raises up a new, by the performative speech of the one who only can do such things. Now are you clean by the word I have spoken to you.
Faith does not rely on faith. The promise of the gospel is not conditional. It applies to me because Christ has spoken it to me. Having to trust in your faith, or that you have true faith introduces additional doubt. Do you know if your faith is the right kind? Is it temporary or permanent? Luke 8:13 But we have a word from Christ himself, as Luther would say, "I am baptized!" God cannot lie. We are not trusting in our faith but on the Word of God.
They are actually means of grace and the break down this way: Word and sacrament. Since scripture nowhere says that you are elect, you will inevitably have to hear that Word, whether in sacramental form or otherwise. But there is no jumping to conclusions that because some are saved, you are too. Not without a word from outside of you proclaiming to you the forgiveness of sins.
Christ assumed his humanity from his mother. The Council of Chalcedon specifies that the two natures subsist without change, separation, confusion, or division. His divinity doesn't change or alter his assumed humanity. So if human nature is naturally depraved, as Calvinism holds, Christ would have assumed depraved nature from his mother, but he didn't. Did he change her depraved nature or is nature not depraved? Are natures sinful, or are persons? If nature causes action, how did Adam sin?
Also they teach that men cannot be justified before God by their own strength, merits, or works, but are freely justified for 2] Christ's sake, through faith, when they believe that they are received into favor, and that their sins are forgiven for Christ's sake, who, by His death, has made satisfaction for our sins. 3] This faith God imputes for righteousness in His sight. Rom. 3 and 4.
I had nothing to do with being baptized. It was sovereignly and monergistically done. And when the words of institution are spoken in the sacrament of the alter, are you saying that Jesus doesn't know to whom he is pronouncing forgiveness?
Paul is speaking of both Christians who sin and of those who believe they are Christians but aren't.A Christian can and will lose crowns and some who believe they are saved will hear :depart,I never knew (loved)you."Romans 8:28-30 tells us that only those God foreknew (foreloved) will end up Glorified,not everyone ever born is foreknown(foreloved).
I don't know of any synergism being taught in the Lutheran churches. I do personally know a former Lutheran pastor who was defrocked for his supposed synergism. Holding to the gospel being effective words from Christ himself through the minister or through the sacraments is in no way synergistic, but reflects the nature of unconditional promise..
I didn't bring up the law and gospel distinction. I brought up Luther's teaching that those without faith are cursed. You're still preaching free will and not Gospel. The Gospel does not mean that everyone has ability to believe. It is information to be believed.
The difference is that scripture says that Christ takes away my sin, that I might believe it and him. Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world. Scripture says I am forgiven "I wash/baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.:" Jesus says to me "Take, eat. This is my body, given for you." "This cup is for the remission of your sins." My sins? Yes, a thousand times, yes!
Who said it was referring to the OT remnant? God ALWAYS has a remnant, He had a remnant I the OT, He had remnant in Paul's day, and He has one today, the remnant are those that God has saved unto Himself, at anytime, anyplace, and any race.
I love the "it's a in-house debate" phrase. They will and always will want to have it both ways.
Evil is do to our libertarian free will, because God is all good.
No?
Oh well that's just calvinism...Christianity is still true.
The faith is in the objective promise of the gospel that has been proclaimed to me and you, based on scripture. It is not some generic 'Jesus died for the elect' and if I only begin to consider myself elect, I will become so. The gospel is always proclaimed 'to you' in scripture and that holds for our day too. In baptism we hear from Jesus "I baptize you" and he means me. There is no obfuscation in that proclamation, that washing of water and the word. God does not make mistakes.
As I said before,it didn't say Paul was preaching to all the people in town in Acts 13:48,others probably heard over a period of time.There would probably be others passing through who would hear the gospel,but Acts 13:48 is plain in it's meaning,all who are appointed (chosen)to eternal life will believe.
"Faith" is the act of "believing" the logical propositions and information revealed in the Gospel message. It is not "reflective" or subjective. I assent to what God says in the Bible. Belief/assent alone is all that is necessary to be saved. Your faith is in your own ability to believe and in a "free will" that is never mentioned in Scripture. Your faith is defectible and my faith is guaranteed because it was given to me by God through the Word and His monergistic enablement.
What I have is the Word of God that says such things as "This cup is for the forgivenessof your sins." And when Jesus says that, he means me. What could be more sure than that? So faith is not something I conjure up, it is the confidence that Jesus gives me through words like this, and others like 'I wash your' referring to baptism.
Tim I would not get so excited over Strongs #5021 (tasso) "appoint" in Acts 13:48. It is not Strongs #4384 (protasso) to appoint before, define beforehand. Look at the other uses of tasso and you will not see Sovereign predetermination.
If things can happen outside of God's knowledge and plan, how can we believe that He can "work all things together for good"? God is not responsible for evil, nor could He be. However, He uses evil and sinful people to accomplish His plans (Isaiah 10).
Not sure about the division part... there seems to be an awful lot of division on this very issue (calvinism) and of course the other main false teaching by which no one is saved - Lordship Salvation.
The passage is highlighting, as in Romans 9-11, the shift of the gospel from the Jews, and the shocking reality of God appointing salvation to non-covenantal Gentiles. The use of Tasso, the OT reference, and the excitement of the gentiles shows that this shift is intentional by God. You're eisegeting monergistic causation to tasso. Here are some other uses of tasso: to agree upon mutually, set in order, adapt, issue orderly and detailed instructions, to place or set.
As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." (Romans 9:13 NKJ)
I see. So the deciding factor in rebellion is the bondage of the will. So how can you say the will is free? Unaided will left to itself always rebels, does it not?
It’s really not an in house debate. There’s only one holy Catholic and apostolic Church, and that doesn’t include those outside of Orthodoxy. Calvinism is contrary to the one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church’s Tradition, which includes Scripture.
As a provisionist, I find that a LOT of Calvinists and Arminian’s ARE divisive over it and get hateful about it. (Looking at James white)
All they do is hate and condem everyone who ever called themselves a Christian. Including Dr Martin L Kiing. They are modern day Pharasies.
The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Election is not the power of God unto salvation. But those who believe are elect.
....as if I had never had nor committed any sin, and myself had accomplished all the obedience which Christ has rendered for me; if only I accept such benefit with a believing heart. Heidelberg Catechism Part 2
For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:6 NKJ) Looks like the "heart" has "knowledge of ...God" before the "face of Jesus Christ". In His presence.
Being destined to die to go either here or there doesn't line up with scripture. For God so loved the world that he sent his only son, that "whoever" believes in him shall "not perish" but have "everlasting life". Or. "And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die." So man clearly has some freewill choices to make here. Also, I don't think God, at my earnest request, would turn me into a God loving robot for the sake of saving my soul, don't think it works like that. It's coming to the realization that we flat out need his grace, for without it we are all lost.
So please explain how God can know the goats infallibly before time and not be creating men guaranteed Hell?If God wanted everyone to Go to Heaven,why not just create those He saw wanting to be saved?
You asked, "So if human nature is naturally depraved, as Calvinism holds, Christ would have assumed depraved nature from his mother, but he didn't?"
Calvinists do NOT claim that "human nature is 'naturally' depraved".
Rather, both corruption and guilt are imputed, by God, to the whole of mankind who have Adam as their federal, representative head.
"Naturally," as when God created Adam, humans were 'good'.
Through the fall, they became evil.
Neither male nor female, slave nor free. This obviously means that the elect come from all genders and classes of mankind. God saves princes, kings, slaves, women, children, men, old and young. He does not restrict His sovereign choice to just men or just women or just slaves or just free people. He saves whom HE will save and who are we to tell God who He must choose? (Romans 9:16-19). In short the deciding factor in salvation is ELECTION, not human will.
Does your bible say of Pharoah in 9:17 "For this purpose I have raised thee up, that I might damn thee"? The passage makes clear that God's covenantal purposes are in view by saying of Pharoah "that my name may be declared in all the earth."
And in verse 22 God is willing to show his wrath and make his power known, but his wrath here is not election to damnation, as damnation is not something that is shown/revealed/made publicly known, anyway.
Verse 22 reveals that God could show his wrath, but in his Mercy he withholds his wrath for the objects of his Mercy. The objects of his Mercy are anyone who believes on Christ as verses 30-33 reveal to us. Remember every person before they had Christ was an object of his wrath, and only through faith in Christ is one an object of his Mercy. (John 3:36, Ephesians 2:3)
You seem to be attributing all causes to God alone, this is a Calvinst presupposition. The passage we read shows dual causation with God able to move all things to the Good. Usually this stems from misreading Romans 9 to 11, which has nothing to do with individual election to heaven and hell, but about God's freedom to bring salvation to the Gentiles without violating Israel's covenants. God made man for communion with him, not for damnation. Adam and Lucifer fell by free choice, not by decree.
Interesting that you would call a Christian brother a "douchebag". If you want to give an answer for the hope that is within you, but do so with gentleness and respect.
Where does Christ tell you that you have faith in the Bible? Just curious? Also, since you think demons have faith in the Gospel (Jam. 2:19) where does the Bible say that Jesus died for their sins? Where does the Bible say that Jesus died for Esau, Pharoah, Pontius Pilate, or Cain? Just curious?
Oh, but you did dispute it. You say that Jesus is not a very good savior, and probably cannot handle your sin, since the atonement is so limited. You deny that the gospel has ever been preached to you as being for you, and rely upon whims and fancies in place of assurance which comes from the objective promise of Christ.