Hola! Michael! Your view of Robert E. Howard's "darkside" was precisely accurate and I know of having a "dark closet" to retreat to so as to try to not let anyone else see that side of me until I am able to dispel it. I do not remember where or when I I obtained a few copies of the Conan paper backs but thankfully I did and I couldn't get enough! There were many stories I read without the literary services of deCamp and Carter. I know I had book "one", "Conan" and book two, "Conan of Cimmeria" along with "the Usurper", "the Avenger", "of Aquilonia" and "of the Isles". I believe they were all from Ace. I also had quite a number of the Marvel comic books and at least a dozen of the black and white magazines titled " The Savage Sword of Conan". In the late 70's ( I think? ), Marvel Comics printed a larger than normal comic book which was part of their "Treasury Edition" (?) series which featured the Robert E. Howard story, "A Witch Shall Be Born" which is one of my favorite Conan stories and no offense to Nyborg, deCamp or Carter, I do know that they are amazing writers themselves, it's just I really do enjoy reading the pure penmanship of Howard. I do also agree with you that many other Conan writers just somehow did not capture the essence or the spirit of the character that Robert E. Howard brought to life and in reading the little Conan material that I did have and what minimum amount I did learn about the character was enough to empress me that when I read somebody else's work, it was as if there was something missing... It felt as if I was reading a shadow instead of the physical form that should have been there casting this shadow, I guess it felt empty. When I had seen the Conan the Barbarian movie, I was disappointed even more because the guys that made this movie did not adhere to the original story line that Robert E Howard created for Conan's background. Please don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved the movie adaptation to show the qualities and primal instincts as well as how Conan began to read and write many languages and tongues and the beginnings of his military prowess as a leader of men. His ability to be in a civilized setting as well as being in the field tracking or hunting. That movie that many seen made an impression as to introduce Conan totally opposite from Howard's original true narrative. I do apologize for being long winded and I appreciate your insight of Robert E. Howard's adaptations that went into developing this larger than life savage. I find your views of Mr. Howard refreshing because I have not heard anyone else explain any rational thoughts as to Robert E. Howard's possible inclusions as to the development of the overall character that has become CONAN...
Glad you are doing videos on Robert E. Howard. Sadly he seems to be overlooked by most other booktubers. I am glad you are giving Robert E. Howard his due!!! Thank you!!!
I think it's a shame he is so underlooked. I think he had poetic energy that surpasses most writers. Nothing about his writing is boring or tired. Nothing about it is unimaginative. Robert E Howard was a genius, and sadly gets little recognition for it.
It was almost like Howard was consciously or unconsciously crafting a suicide note in that particular story. Brilliant analysis of a supremely talented but troubled writer. "All fled, all done, so lift me on the pyre; The feast is over and the lamps expire."
I read those words at the end of a Conan novel, "The hour of the Dragon", edited by Karl Edward Wagner (1945--1994; last ravages of alcoholism.) How sad that both authors died relatively young. Yet their works outlive them, and are still read to this day by devoted fans.
The lush, beautiful, violent darkness of Robert E. Howard saturated my mind when I first read him as a boy of twelve ( I'm a "Red Nails" and "The People of the Black Circle" guy).His carousing, bone crushing, ass-kickers nudged me towards becoming (early in my adulthood ) a brawler, a womanizer, and ( alongside of the works of Nelson Algren and Charles Bukowski ) contributed to decades of delicious and occasional brutal drunkeness. Thank you, o-manly authors of the 20th century!
Even by your standards this is an excellent video. Thoughtful and insightful. Your appreciation and sympathy for Howard as both a writer and a person shines through.
Anyone who is intestinal in Robert E Howard's work I recommend his Collected Works by Delphi Classics, it's incredibly extensive, includes his novels, short stories, and even non fiction, best way to truly explore this terribly underrated author
An excellent video and discussion! Thanks! I wish that REH had had a happier life, but I agree that his expression of his dark feelings is part of what makes his stories so great. Its authentic and raw, and that is what gives his stories their longevity and why people still love them. Considering how negative REH sometimes felt about his own success as a writer, I wish he could see how much his work has meant to so many people over the years and how popular he still is 100 years later.
So sad that he took his life, and it was interesting to hear how you felt different characters portrayed different parts of the author. I noticed the dark tone in one of the Conan stories I was reading, particularly of the city setting. There are, of course, some critical things Conan had to say about civilization. I really want to go back and read more of Howard's work!
I can understand why Robert E. Howard got consumed by darkness eventually. I mean heck even in today's world how many people can truly live off of their creativity (a lot lot of great authors perished before they were even recognized). I mean lets be honest creative work might be one of the hardest works out there, yes sure it's not like mining, but on a mental plane in many ways it is. Mostly a creative rarely if ever gets paid, not to mention all other adversity a creative suffers. Robert E. Howard deserved far more than what he got, I ofc would hope he would live longer to possibly get his benefits, but he just snapped. Very sad story man, I hope that deserving creatives will get their due while they are alive. Just in case I for sure identify as a free market capitalist and I do believe that if the market doesn't reward you it's your problem, but still I just hope that people do not have to perish like he did with such immense talents!
If only Howard could have escaped from the darkness to live longer, he had so very much to live for. He truly was more akin to Kull which is rather sad as Howard was truly a genius. This video of yours is one of your finest good sir, you did a great job and your sincere love for Howard shines through.
As someone with an anxiety disorder (at some points my fear can be crippling) I try to read stories for escapism. Mr. Howard gave me that. But as you say, his depression does somewhat leak from the pages. I could sense it slightly. I am really looking forward to reading Kull and Solomon Kane. I kinda wish time travel was possible. So someone could tell him how amazing his work is and how many people will love Conan. I wonder if knowing that, Howard wouldn't have gone down the dark path he did? Really amazing video, sir. Thanks for all your content.
This reminds me what I felt from Lies of Locke Lamora series. Yet no one seems to mention that. Thank you for sharing this. “Depression leaking from the pages” is exactly how I would describe that.
I came across your channel this morning whilst researching Robert E. Howard - what a great find! Thanks for putting out such considered and well presented content.
Excellent discussion. I very much agree with your thoughts on Howard. I'm a huge fan of his work, especially Conan. Unfortunately, none of the various adaptations has really managed to capture the specific tone of the original stories. Maybe Savage Sword has come closest. The stories somehow manage to be grim and gritty without devolving into the realm of "grimdark" where it seems like a self-conscious thing...they are not without humor, but there's always that darkness bubbling underneath.
I’ve seen some of your videos here and there but didn’t realize you were doing REH content. Howard was the author that made me love reading and is still one of 4 favorite authors of all time. I’ve been a lifelong collector of his works. If you are enough of a fan that you would like to own very nice editions, you may want to track down the editions from Wandering Star (continued by Subterranean Press after WS went under). They are beautiful.
Great video. When enjoying works of art its easy to forget the cost to the original artist especially of those who suffered a great deal. Plath, Van Gogh and Diane Arbus are just some of the examples of the typical "tortured artist" trope but all to often we forget the "tortured" bit was real and when we enjoy their works we forget the real personal costs that went on as well. So it was really touching to hear you say you wished he had been happier even at the cost of his creativity because most of us are fans of CONAN nut we are also admirers of REH and so know he was drowning in that darkness and in the end his lamp was expired by it. I wish he had been happier. thanks
Really great vid, Micheal. I’ve been telling my pals to read Robert E Howard.... and I get blank looks...then I say.. Conan... and they think the movie... and I sigh in exasperation... but I was like this before I was turned... Such a loss...
Very interesting, thank you. When i think of conan stories i remember monsters. I remember huge halls of pillars reaching up into darkness and shadows lurking there. I remember a river crossing into a terrible jungle of death. Only two of those stories involve saving a princess and they're really just a formality.
Very grim and heavy subject, but you dealt with it in an appropriate and respectful manner. We lost a great writer when he decided to take his life, but Howard left us more than he would ever have expected or even dreamed of. Another great video.
It is the opening of The Mirrors of Tuzun Thune that really spoke to me about depression. The way REH described it, I haven't read anything quite as poetic and visceral as that. ⚔
Thank you so much for posting this video. I spent my childhood in a very violent part of the world and Conan was a figure that inspired me to try to be a better person. This video really puts everything onto perspective.
@@paulforder591 I rather not share that info, but the world of Conan had more to do with my environment than any other. People there tend to be more feral and violent death is not rarity. Whenever Conan choose to use is brain instead of the sword, or calm instead of ire, was revelatory back then. I know it rather sounds basic decent human behavior but in some places that is still sorely needed.
I'm a new subscriber.....signed on a couple of weeks ago. Got to say how much I am enjoying your videos. With all your past content, there is plenty to keep me happy! Thank you!
Fantastic video. Robert E.Howard carrying an big darkness inside yourself! Atually, I'm reading the tales of Bran Mank Morn The Last King of Pictos. It's fabulous. Great analysis, Michael.Continue with the greatest job, sire !
greetings, Wonderful presentation.... I see the Howard personality also well expressed in the early poems and plays of W.B.Yeats..Cuchulainn and King Fergus come to mind.
I bought that Swords Against Darkness book back in the late 80s or early 90s. Very good anthology. I always thought that Andrew J. Offutt did a great job on finishing Nekht Semerkeht (sp?). That story has always stuck in my mind and is underrated.
You have one of the best booktube channels. Always fascinating insights about books and authors. This discussion about Howard really held my interest. You've hit upon something about why such a gap in quality exists between Howard's Conan, and the various pastiches. An insight I've not heard before on the subject, and something - admittedly - I hadn't considered either. Quite thoughtful. Anyway, thank you for all of your great videos. I hope your channel continues to grow.
Love your library, love your outfit and I especially loved the quote you found by Carl Edward Wagner. That really hit the nail on the head. Great research. /subscribed!
Excellent. Think you are completely right. But I do think his projection into Conan, although more ideal than the other characters, gives the barbarian (embodiment of instinct, man from nature, man at ease with himself) an impetus, a kind of storytale velocity, that is special - perhaps unique.
This was a really good video, and a bit of a departure in your Howard series. Delving into where Howard went within himself for a lot of his character's aspects is a terrific discussion, and you brought this out very well. I was struck by the passage you read from your book, which is eerily similar in sentiment and context to Howard's death and the few lines he left in his suicide note. A somber but important look at where the works came from. Well done.
Thanks! Although it should be said that he left no suicide note. The famous couplet; All Fled, All Done, was actually found on a scrap of paper in his wallet after his death. It was not found in his typewriter later as the famous legend has it, so it cannot be said to be any kind of final message.
@@michaelk.vaughan8617 yeah, the REHupa group used to argue over that point as well. However it is understood or explained, the note added a dimension of poignancy to the tragedy.
Very interesting. You couldn't have even a character like Conan without the internal struggle or you just have a giant psychopath who flits between problems they will inevitably overcome. The heat of battle is in the moment, in the moment is the enemy of brooding, over thought and depression. I've read accounts of people with clinical depression being able to function well during WW2 in Britain and not function the day peace was declared as they were no longer living in the moment. Perhaps this is what Conan represented to Howard, an infinite ability to live in the moment and the real battle was internal. They relied on each other for existence in a way, of course few would be able to replicate this symbiotic relationship if it was noticed at all.
I'm a writer and, while fiction isn't confession, passages of the kind you read aloud so well often parallel some of what's going on in the writer's life. It's never a blueprint but is often an echo or one of Plato's grotesque shadows. I was in a correspondence coterie of writers in the 1980s that included among others T.E.D. Klein, Dean Ing, Ramsay Campbell, and Karl Edward Wagner, and the last-mentioned was a Viking of a guy. He had issues but was a magnificent writer.
I didn't know Andrew Offutt wrote paperback porn or finished one of REH's Conan stories. I just know him as one of my favorite writers from the Thieves World anthology fantasy series, which was edited/co-written by Robert Aspirin and Lynn Abbey. They were some of my favorite books as a teenager. His character from that series, Hans/Shadowspawn even got his own stand alone novel as well as being featured in all the short stories he wrote in Thieves World.
How is it possible to win The National Book Award for fiction and then fall completely off the charts? That's what happened to Walter Wangerin Jr. who won for The Book of the Dun Cow, with the hero drawn from Chaucer. The book is a fantasy and the horror is somewhat mitigated by a happy ending. The author then followed it up with a sequel The Book of Sorrows which has an ending that was probably too horrifying for the fantasy fans who devoured the first book. Wangerin then made it into a trilogy with Peace at the Last in which he tried to create a happy ending based on Chaucer? but it hasn't yet worked for me. I hope that my third reading of the ending will finally convince me. Anyway Vaughn Manor desperately needs the first two books in the trilogy!
"To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep; No more; and by a sleep to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep; To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; For in that sleep of death what dreams may come When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, Must give us pause: there's the respect That makes calamity of so long life; For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely, The pangs of despised love, the law's delay, The insolence of office and the spurns That patient merit of the unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscover'd country from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pith and moment With this regard their currents turn awry, And lose the name of action.-Soft you now! The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons Be all my sins remember'd."
I do understand depression so I understand REH a little bit more than those who don't battle depression; writing is a good way at times to deal with it which is why I write....one reason anyway....but I do understand depression, it's difficult and sometimes it wins....I do need to find that biography you spoke of as he does sound interesting.
You should read the intro to Cthulhu: mythos and kindred horrors, where David Drake discusses the darkness of Howard outlook and fiction. That was the first real Howard I read. It was so different from the Conan comics. You might have noticed that Howard's Conan stories, unlike the patches, border on being horror stories.
Thanks for your revalatory video. I was very touched by your searching and insightful enquiry into R. E. Howard's personality. Growing up with Howard's writing you begin to love his work, and you begin to yearn that someone like you would do a serious introspective look at him. Not just, "he wrote fantasy and comited suicide..." ❤😊📚😀🖤
I think for any successful writer they have to put a little bit of something of themselves in their characters. It makes the work more involving and personal and also enriches the character they write about. If it isn't there then the character isn't going to be as exciting or interesting. Just as often it wish fulfillment as well. I remember what I heard about Ian Fleming writing about James Bond. It was said James Bond was Ian Fleming day dreaming in the third person.
A lot of his stories were filled with grim nihilism, alienation and a desperate struggle to find any real meaning in life. I feel bad he couldn't get the mental and emotional help he needed.
Alright, you convinced me -- I just picked up a collection of Howard's horror stories. Curious: have you ever seen the movie, The Whole Wide World? Don't believe I've heard you mention it in any of your Howard-related videos.
Darkness is fine but it must be controlled. Sad that REH did not suppress some more darkness just enough to function. A lesson to all that you need to balance the dark and the light but enjoy REH.
This is better than attending an IV league university ! Hugely interesting. I wish Karl Edward Wagner's books would be picked up by a publisher. Would a letter writing campaign work ? A booktube campaign ? Surely you or Steve Donoghue have some contacts ? 🤣🤣
When the movie Joker was in the can, the studio refused to release it as is. The actors believed in the movie and refused to do reshoot. They had to remake the movie with the actors. The very last scene in the movie has the Joker walking down the hallway leaving blooddly foot prints. We are to assume he killed his therapist. If you watch, you are not allowed to see the Joker's face as he walks down the hall, because Joaquin Phoenix didn"t shoot that scene. My favorite scene in the movie is when the Joker says, "All I have is negitive thoughts." Writers are lucky, because they are they are allowed to write whatever they want. Well that's not entirely true. They have to sell, and the readers are fickle. I was reading a Lee Child book, and the writer goes on two page list of how to kill ones self, and the down side of each method. I'm sure he had more then a passing interest in the subjected. Funny thing is Lee Child's character Jack Recher has the same appeal as Conan. Reacher is this giant of man who wanders around the world beating up people. Jack Reacher has been in a few movie but they never get the character right. In the movies he is this larger than life braggart. In the books Jack Reacher is this deeply depressed man who doesn't like himself because he knows he is a bit of a Sociopath. Jack also suffers from unrelenting guilt for everything. They never capture that in the movies.
There's more darkness in Law and Order. What there is in Howard is supernatural horror. On another note was his "darkness" any more dark than other artists. Say Van Gogh? Certainly tragic, but dark? Why say that? Is Romeo and Juliet dark? Hamlet? Icarus? What do you mean when you say dark? That there was an evil there? Suicide is a sin, but i would rankle at it being called evil. More evil than killing another person? Certain philosophies pose suicide as the most fundamental question of existence. Despair is full of darkness. Not knowing Howard's mind, except through his characters, i would balk at thinking that despair could take hold of that mind. Yet I'm not privy to his private life and feelings. It would be more of a shock to me to find out Howard killed himself in a fit of pique. Why? When despair seemed so foreign to his characters. Brooding is not despite. Self reflection is not self punishment. I do think that a really conceited opinion of ones own thoughts and reasons is another path to suicide, though i have never seen that depicted in art. Except maybe in horror. Was there a Lovecraft story where an occultist planned his own suicide in a bid to be reborn in a supernatural way? Was Howard under some such conceit?
Robert E Howard should not have killed himself. I know why he did it. He was deeply in dept and wasn't getting money for his stories. It was during the Great depression and he was probably better off than most people in that day and time. His father was a doctor. REH killed himself shortly after his mother died but he should have taken the pain. Bad things happen to good people. Had he lived he would have become a wealthy celebrity.
16:21 ... if he were happier and lived longer maybe conan was never been made, epic movies and games never been made, thousands of friendships would never happened... so awnsered yourself "things are like things are"...
You're dead on with calling out the darkness in Howard's work. In fact he was a pen pal of Lovecraft. No doubt because of Howard's references to the "Old Gods" in his stories.
Hola! Michael! Your view of Robert E. Howard's "darkside" was precisely accurate and I know of having a "dark closet" to retreat to so as to try to not let anyone else see that side of me until I am able to dispel it. I do not remember where or when I I obtained a few copies of the Conan paper backs but thankfully I did and I couldn't get enough!
There were many stories I read without the literary services of deCamp and Carter. I know I had book "one", "Conan" and book two, "Conan of Cimmeria" along with "the Usurper", "the Avenger", "of Aquilonia" and "of the Isles".
I believe they were all from Ace. I also had quite a number of the Marvel comic books and at least a dozen of the black and white magazines titled " The Savage Sword of Conan".
In the late 70's ( I think? ), Marvel Comics printed a larger than normal comic book which was part of their "Treasury Edition" (?) series which featured the Robert E. Howard story, "A Witch Shall Be Born" which is one of my favorite Conan stories and no offense to Nyborg, deCamp or Carter, I do know that they are amazing writers themselves, it's just I really do enjoy reading the pure penmanship of Howard.
I do also agree with you that many other Conan writers just somehow did not capture the essence or the spirit of the character that Robert E. Howard brought to life and in reading the little Conan material that I did have and what minimum amount I did learn about the character was enough to empress me that when I read somebody else's work, it was as if there was something missing...
It felt as if I was reading a shadow instead of the physical form that should have been there casting this shadow, I guess it felt empty. When I had seen the Conan the Barbarian movie, I was disappointed even more because the guys that made this movie did not adhere to the original story line that Robert E Howard created for Conan's background. Please don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved the movie adaptation to show the qualities and primal instincts as well as how Conan began to read and write many languages and tongues and the beginnings of his military prowess as a leader of men. His ability to be in a civilized setting as well as being in the field tracking or hunting. That movie that many seen made an impression as to introduce Conan totally opposite from Howard's original true narrative. I do apologize for being long winded and I appreciate your insight of Robert E. Howard's adaptations that went into developing this larger than life savage. I find your views of Mr. Howard refreshing because I have not heard anyone else explain any rational thoughts as to Robert E. Howard's possible inclusions as to the development of the overall character that has become CONAN...
Imagine how much more Howard could have given us had his life not ended in such a tragic way. Such a shame......
Perhaps it is why we love his work all the more.
Glad you are doing videos on Robert E. Howard. Sadly he seems to be overlooked by most other booktubers. I am glad you are giving Robert E. Howard his due!!! Thank you!!!
You are very welcome. I’ve been a Robert E. Howard fan for most of my life so I’m glad to get the chance to talk about him.
He sure is great
I think it's a shame he is so underlooked. I think he had poetic energy that surpasses most writers. Nothing about his writing is boring or tired. Nothing about it is unimaginative. Robert E Howard was a genius, and sadly gets little recognition for it.
Very insightful 👏🏻. I've said no one has written Conan correctly. Many have done a good try, but always miss the mark.
It was almost like Howard was consciously or unconsciously crafting a suicide note in that particular story. Brilliant analysis of a supremely talented but troubled writer. "All fled, all done, so lift me on the pyre; The feast is over and the lamps expire."
Thanks! Yeah, that part of the story was striking, considering how things turned out.
I read those words at the end of a Conan novel, "The hour of the Dragon", edited by Karl Edward Wagner (1945--1994; last ravages of alcoholism.) How sad that both authors died relatively young. Yet their works outlive them, and are still read to this day by devoted fans.
If I had known Robert E Howard, I would have given him lots of hugs. 🤗
He needed them.
Robert E Howard is one of my favourite writers ever.
The lush, beautiful, violent darkness of Robert E. Howard saturated my mind when I first read him as a boy of twelve ( I'm a "Red Nails" and "The People of the Black Circle" guy).His carousing, bone crushing, ass-kickers nudged me towards becoming (early in my adulthood ) a brawler, a womanizer, and ( alongside of the works of Nelson Algren and Charles Bukowski ) contributed to decades of delicious and occasional brutal drunkeness. Thank you, o-manly authors of the 20th century!
Even by your standards this is an excellent video. Thoughtful and insightful. Your appreciation and sympathy for Howard as both a writer and a person shines through.
Thanks! The rest of the week I’m talking to a rubber mummy.
Anyone who is intestinal in Robert E Howard's work I recommend his Collected Works by Delphi Classics, it's incredibly extensive, includes his novels, short stories, and even non fiction, best way to truly explore this terribly underrated author
An excellent video and discussion! Thanks!
I wish that REH had had a happier life, but I agree that his expression of his dark feelings is part of what makes his stories so great. Its authentic and raw, and that is what gives his stories their longevity and why people still love them.
Considering how negative REH sometimes felt about his own success as a writer, I wish he could see how much his work has meant to so many people over the years and how popular he still is 100 years later.
So sad that he took his life, and it was interesting to hear how you felt different characters portrayed different parts of the author. I noticed the dark tone in one of the Conan stories I was reading, particularly of the city setting. There are, of course, some critical things Conan had to say about civilization. I really want to go back and read more of Howard's work!
It was a terrible tragedy, and a great loss to those of us who love his work.
I can understand why Robert E. Howard got consumed by darkness eventually. I mean heck even in today's world how many people can truly live off of their creativity (a lot lot of great authors perished before they were even recognized). I mean lets be honest creative work might be one of the hardest works out there, yes sure it's not like mining, but on a mental plane in many ways it is. Mostly a creative rarely if ever gets paid, not to mention all other adversity a creative suffers. Robert E. Howard deserved far more than what he got, I ofc would hope he would live longer to possibly get his benefits, but he just snapped. Very sad story man, I hope that deserving creatives will get their due while they are alive. Just in case I for sure identify as a free market capitalist and I do believe that if the market doesn't reward you it's your problem, but still I just hope that people do not have to perish like he did with such immense talents!
If only Howard could have escaped from the darkness to live longer, he had so very much to live for. He truly was more akin to Kull which is rather sad as Howard was truly a genius. This video of yours is one of your finest good sir, you did a great job and your sincere love for Howard shines through.
As someone with an anxiety disorder (at some points my fear can be crippling) I try to read stories for escapism. Mr. Howard gave me that. But as you say, his depression does somewhat leak from the pages. I could sense it slightly. I am really looking forward to reading Kull and Solomon Kane. I kinda wish time travel was possible. So someone could tell him how amazing his work is and how many people will love Conan. I wonder if knowing that, Howard wouldn't have gone down the dark path he did? Really amazing video, sir. Thanks for all your content.
This reminds me what I felt from Lies of Locke Lamora series. Yet no one seems to mention that. Thank you for sharing this. “Depression leaking from the pages” is exactly how I would describe that.
I came across your channel this morning whilst researching Robert E. Howard - what a great find! Thanks for putting out such considered and well presented content.
Thanks Jonathan!
Excellent discussion. I very much agree with your thoughts on Howard. I'm a huge fan of his work, especially Conan. Unfortunately, none of the various adaptations has really managed to capture the specific tone of the original stories. Maybe Savage Sword has come closest. The stories somehow manage to be grim and gritty without devolving into the realm of "grimdark" where it seems like a self-conscious thing...they are not without humor, but there's always that darkness bubbling underneath.
Thanks. I think you are right, grimdark has become a self conscious thing, at least with a lot of writers.
Especially the issues of SSOC that were written by Roy Thomas. Thomas is the best of the pastiche writers.
I'm driven to tears at some of his lines and how foreshadowing they were
I’ve seen some of your videos here and there but didn’t realize you were doing REH content. Howard was the author that made me love reading and is still one of 4 favorite authors of all time. I’ve been a lifelong collector of his works. If you are enough of a fan that you would like to own very nice editions, you may want to track down the editions from Wandering Star (continued by Subterranean Press after WS went under). They are beautiful.
I would definitely like those Wandering Star editions. As soon as I find some buried treasure I’ll get them!
This is great. I never read that unfinished story, and I found it incredibly eerie hearing the suicidal ideation of that character
It really is eerie.
Great video. When enjoying works of art its easy to forget the cost to the original artist especially of those who suffered a great deal. Plath, Van Gogh and Diane Arbus are just some of the examples of the typical "tortured artist" trope but all to often we forget the "tortured" bit was real and when we enjoy their works we forget the real personal costs that went on as well. So it was really touching to hear you say you wished he had been happier even at the cost of his creativity because most of us are fans of CONAN nut we are also admirers of REH and so know he was drowning in that darkness and in the end his lamp was expired by it. I wish he had been happier. thanks
Great analysis on REH. Sometimes the greatest work comes through suffering. Which is sad. I’m glad we got as much as we did from him.
Yes, and he wrote a lot considering the short time he had.
Really great vid, Micheal. I’ve been telling my pals to read Robert E Howard.... and I get blank looks...then I say.. Conan... and they think the movie... and I sigh in exasperation... but I was like this before I was turned... Such a loss...
Thanks! I have experienced that very frustration many times!
It’s so nice to find someone who not only makes A video on Robert e Howard. But a whole SERIES of Robert e Howard stories.
I’m very happy you found my channel!
Very interesting, thank you. When i think of conan stories i remember monsters. I remember huge halls of pillars reaching up into darkness and shadows lurking there. I remember a river crossing into a terrible jungle of death. Only two of those stories involve saving a princess and they're really just a formality.
Gotta confront the shadow for all of us. Part of our journey.
I read REH's Conan stories as a kid. I modeled myself on this character. No wonder I was always getting suspended from school. Har!
Excellent, excellent discussion. Looking forward to trying some Howard.
You will like his work, I’m sure.
Spot on Michael! It's this darkness he had inside that made his writing poetic and special, even when he wrote shwashbuckling adventure stories.
Thanks Carlo!
Very grim and heavy subject, but you dealt with it in an appropriate and respectful manner. We lost a great writer when he decided to take his life, but Howard left us more than he would ever have expected or even dreamed of. Another great video.
It is the opening of The Mirrors of Tuzun Thune that really spoke to me about depression. The way REH described it, I haven't read anything quite as poetic and visceral as that. ⚔
The wardrobe is definetly in tone with the video! Lol
I've never read anything about this author, what would be a good start? Thanks!
I would start with Conan. My outfit was an accidentally appropriate choice!
This was a really good discussion video. I need to read Robert E. Howard soon. He’s always intrigued me.
Thanks! You do need to read REH! Of course I’m going to say that.
Thank you so much for posting this video. I spent my childhood in a very violent part of the world and Conan was a figure that inspired me to try to be a better person. This video really puts everything onto perspective.
Thanks so much for watching! I’m glad Conan was helpful to you when you were growing up.
Glad to hear Conan was a positive inspiration for you. What country did you live in? 🇬🇧😺🇺🇸
@@paulforder591 I rather not share that info, but the world of Conan had more to do with my environment than any other. People there tend to be more feral and violent death is not rarity. Whenever Conan choose to use is brain instead of the sword, or calm instead of ire, was revelatory back then. I know it rather sounds basic decent human behavior but in some places that is still sorely needed.
Great video!
Your videos are excellent. I'm learning a lot of REH from you.
Thanks AR!
I'm a new subscriber.....signed on a couple of weeks ago. Got to say how much I am enjoying your videos. With all your past content, there is plenty to keep me happy! Thank you!
Thanks so much! That means a lot to me!
Respect. Honor for his talent. Such a sensitive soul.
just started to read his horror stories. thankyou for introducing him to me
I’m so glad you started reading REH!
Fantastic video. Robert E.Howard carrying an big darkness inside yourself! Atually, I'm reading the tales of Bran Mank Morn The Last King of Pictos. It's fabulous. Great analysis, Michael.Continue with the greatest job, sire !
Thanks!
Like many past Artists…they died to young and often felt that people didn’t understand them.
This is one of your best videos
Thank you!
greetings,
Wonderful presentation....
I see the Howard personality also well expressed in the early poems and plays of W.B.Yeats..Cuchulainn and King Fergus come to mind.
Yes.
Horror is my favorite genre, although, like you, I have eclectic tastes in books, movies and music
I'm a paramedic and I've responded to a lot of suicides and have read a lot of suicide notes and that except you read is pretty typical
I bought that Swords Against Darkness book back in the late 80s or early 90s. Very good anthology. I always thought that Andrew J. Offutt did a great job on finishing Nekht Semerkeht (sp?). That story has always stuck in my mind and is underrated.
I appreciate you so much
So much art is created by those suffering from depression.
Interesting comments about an author I had only heard of, but knew nothing really about.
Thanks Jan!
You have one of the best booktube channels. Always fascinating insights about books and authors. This discussion about Howard really held my interest. You've hit upon something about why such a gap in quality exists between Howard's Conan, and the various pastiches. An insight I've not heard before on the subject, and something - admittedly - I hadn't considered either. Quite thoughtful. Anyway, thank you for all of your great videos. I hope your channel continues to grow.
Thanks Ken! I really appreciate the kind words and encouragement!
Love your library, love your outfit and I especially loved the quote you found by Carl Edward Wagner. That really hit the nail on the head. Great research. /subscribed!
Thanks!
Awesome discussion!
Thanks James!
Excellent. Think you are completely right. But I do think his projection into Conan, although more ideal than the other characters, gives the barbarian (embodiment of instinct, man from nature, man at ease with himself) an impetus, a kind of storytale velocity, that is special - perhaps unique.
This was a really good video, and a bit of a departure in your Howard series. Delving into where Howard went within himself for a lot of his character's aspects is a terrific discussion, and you brought this out very well. I was struck by the passage you read from your book, which is eerily similar in sentiment and context to Howard's death and the few lines he left in his suicide note. A somber but important look at where the works came from. Well done.
Thanks! Although it should be said that he left no suicide note. The famous couplet; All Fled, All Done, was actually found on a scrap of paper in his wallet after his death. It was not found in his typewriter later as the famous legend has it, so it cannot be said to be any kind of final message.
@@michaelk.vaughan8617 yeah, the REHupa group used to argue over that point as well. However it is understood or explained, the note added a dimension of poignancy to the tragedy.
@@stevengentry9396 true enough
Very interesting. You couldn't have even a character like Conan without the internal struggle or you just have a giant psychopath who flits between problems they will inevitably overcome. The heat of battle is in the moment, in the moment is the enemy of brooding, over thought and depression. I've read accounts of people with clinical depression being able to function well during WW2 in Britain and not function the day peace was declared as they were no longer living in the moment. Perhaps this is what Conan represented to Howard, an infinite ability to live in the moment and the real battle was internal. They relied on each other for existence in a way, of course few would be able to replicate this symbiotic relationship if it was noticed at all.
I'm a writer and, while fiction isn't confession, passages of the kind you read aloud so well often parallel some of what's going on in the writer's life. It's never a blueprint but is often an echo or one of Plato's grotesque shadows.
I was in a correspondence coterie of writers in the 1980s that included among others T.E.D. Klein, Dean Ing, Ramsay Campbell, and Karl Edward Wagner, and the last-mentioned was a Viking of a guy. He had issues but was a magnificent writer.
Karl Edward Wagner was a tremendous talent. I clearly remember the moment I was told he passed away. It was devastating. What a loss.
MKV.. What's the best reusable bookmark 📌 ? Please 🙏 tell, paper or metal?
Bronze
I didn't know Andrew Offutt wrote paperback porn or finished one of REH's Conan stories. I just know him as one of my favorite writers from the Thieves World anthology fantasy series, which was edited/co-written by Robert Aspirin and Lynn Abbey. They were some of my favorite books as a teenager. His character from that series, Hans/Shadowspawn even got his own stand alone novel as well as being featured in all the short stories he wrote in Thieves World.
How is it possible to win The National Book Award for fiction and then fall completely off the charts? That's what happened to Walter Wangerin Jr. who won for The Book of the Dun Cow, with the hero drawn from Chaucer. The book is a fantasy and the horror is somewhat mitigated by a happy ending. The author then followed it up with a sequel The Book of Sorrows which has an ending that was probably too horrifying for the fantasy fans who devoured the first book. Wangerin then made it into a trilogy with Peace at the Last in which he tried to create a happy ending based on Chaucer? but it hasn't yet worked for me. I hope that my third reading of the ending will finally convince me. Anyway Vaughn Manor desperately needs the first two books in the trilogy!
Excellent video. Agree that his darkness makes his work special and his Conan stories superior to the “pastiche Conan” stories that followed.
Thanks!
"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.-Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd."
I do understand depression so I understand REH a little bit more than those who don't battle depression; writing is a good way at times to deal with it which is why I write....one reason anyway....but I do understand depression, it's difficult and sometimes it wins....I do need to find that biography you spoke of as he does sound interesting.
It’s a really good biography.
You should read the intro to Cthulhu: mythos and kindred horrors, where David Drake discusses the darkness of Howard outlook and fiction. That was the first real Howard I read. It was so different from the Conan comics. You might have noticed that Howard's Conan stories, unlike the patches, border on being horror stories.
I have read Drake’s introduction. It was excellent.
Thanks for your revalatory video.
I was very touched by your searching and insightful enquiry into R. E. Howard's personality.
Growing up with Howard's writing you begin to love his work, and you begin to yearn that someone like you would do a serious introspective look at him. Not just, "he wrote fantasy and comited suicide..."
❤😊📚😀🖤
I think for any successful writer they have to put a little bit of something of themselves in their characters. It makes the work more involving and personal and also enriches the character they write about. If it isn't there then the character isn't going to be as exciting or interesting. Just as often it wish fulfillment as well. I remember what I heard about Ian Fleming writing about James Bond. It was said James Bond was Ian Fleming day dreaming in the third person.
A lot of his stories were filled with grim nihilism, alienation and a desperate struggle to find any real meaning in life. I feel bad he couldn't get the mental and emotional help he needed.
Alright, you convinced me -- I just picked up a collection of Howard's horror stories. Curious: have you ever seen the movie, The Whole Wide World? Don't believe I've heard you mention it in any of your Howard-related videos.
I have seen it and I thought it was pretty well done.
Darkness is fine but it must be controlled. Sad that REH did not suppress some more darkness just enough to function. A lesson to all that you need to balance the dark and the light but enjoy REH.
This is better than attending an IV league university ! Hugely interesting. I wish Karl Edward Wagner's books would be picked up by a publisher. Would a letter writing campaign work ? A booktube campaign ? Surely you or Steve Donoghue have some contacts ? 🤣🤣
Maybe Steve does! He’s the closest I’ve got.
MMMMerci !!!!
When the movie Joker was in the can, the studio refused to release it as is. The actors believed in the movie and refused to do reshoot. They had to remake the movie with the actors. The very last scene in the movie has the Joker walking down the hallway leaving blooddly foot prints. We are to assume he killed his therapist. If you watch, you are not allowed to see the Joker's face as he walks down the hall, because Joaquin Phoenix didn"t shoot that scene. My favorite scene in the movie is when the Joker says, "All I have is negitive thoughts." Writers are lucky, because they are they are allowed to write whatever they want. Well that's not entirely true. They have to sell, and the readers are fickle. I was reading a Lee Child book, and the writer goes on two page list of how to kill ones self, and the down side of each method. I'm sure he had more then a passing interest in the subjected. Funny thing is Lee Child's character Jack Recher has the same appeal as Conan. Reacher is this giant of man who wanders around the world beating up people. Jack Reacher has been in a few movie but they never get the character right. In the movies he is this larger than life braggart. In the books Jack Reacher is this deeply depressed man who doesn't like himself because he knows he is a bit of a Sociopath. Jack also suffers from unrelenting guilt for everything. They never capture that in the movies.
I need to read those Jack Reacher books.
This channel fuckin rocks!!❤HELLS YEAH!!!
Thanks!
The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long
There's more darkness in Law and Order. What there is in Howard is supernatural horror.
On another note was his "darkness" any more dark than other artists. Say Van Gogh? Certainly tragic, but dark? Why say that? Is Romeo and Juliet dark? Hamlet? Icarus? What do you mean when you say dark? That there was an evil there?
Suicide is a sin, but i would rankle at it being called evil. More evil than killing another person? Certain philosophies pose suicide as the most fundamental question of existence.
Despair is full of darkness. Not knowing Howard's mind, except through his characters, i would balk at thinking that despair could take hold of that mind. Yet I'm not privy to his private life and feelings. It would be more of a shock to me to find out Howard killed himself in a fit of pique. Why? When despair seemed so foreign to his characters. Brooding is not despite. Self reflection is not self punishment.
I do think that a really conceited opinion of ones own thoughts and reasons is another path to suicide, though i have never seen that depicted in art. Except maybe in horror. Was there a Lovecraft story where an occultist planned his own suicide in a bid to be reborn in a supernatural way? Was Howard under some such conceit?
If only Howard had gotten the help he needed.
Robert E Howard should not have killed himself. I know why he did it. He was deeply in dept and wasn't getting money for his stories. It was during the Great depression and he was probably better off than most people in that day and time. His father was a doctor. REH killed himself shortly after his mother died but he should have taken the pain. Bad things happen to good people. Had he lived he would have become a wealthy celebrity.
He shot himself with a borrowed Colt 380. Sorry he took that route.
16:21 ... if he were happier and lived longer maybe conan was never been made, epic movies and games never been made, thousands of friendships would never happened... so awnsered yourself "things are like things are"...
Go to Cross Plains. Then think about it in the thirties.
I have.
By crom
All of the authors seemed to be nihilistic in their worldview.
You mean pseudohistorical don't you.
You're dead on with calling out the darkness in Howard's work. In fact he was a pen pal of Lovecraft. No doubt because of Howard's references to the "Old Gods" in his stories.