Coach Holler, I am so glad my son, a baseball athlete that got cut now runs track 200 and 400, doesn't run for the coach at the 21 min mark. My son and some of his sprint teammates started following your workouts a month before indoor season. To their surprise, the coach is now using your coaching method without them suggesting it him, They love it and the results my son is getting. Their coach is just in his second year as head coach but they have won the 4a state championship in the 4 x 400 previous two years. Your program is helping my son make this 4x400 relay team. Thank you
PS, They won the state 4x4 with a time of 3:18 last year , 3:23 the year before. 2 guys returning with 47.5 and 48.8. My son is on the verge to going under 50sec. I think he will get there using your program, Thanks again
Anyone that says their way is the only way and dismisses others as well as science, is full of crap. Although I lean towards Feed the Cats style of coaching, I have also coached using most of Coach Banta's methods. By the way, I changed to the Feed the Cats type of training with the same group that had been training with the "Banta" style. Same results. We dominated with both styles. I do prefer the FTC method for short sprinters. For 400 runners to be dominate, my experience shows that they need more event specific training. In order to come up with the best methods for my athletes I studied training methods from coaches going back to Bud Winter. I looked at what Valeriy Borzov did to train for the 1972 Olympics. I followed Clyde Hart, Latif Thomas, Dennis Shaver, Dan Pfaff, Glen Mills, Carol Smith-Gilbert, etc. I studied the science of sprinting and energy production. I took what I liked and agreed with and implemented it. Changed when it was ineffective or found something better. The thought is to find out what the best training methods are by observing what the best and most succesful athletes in that event are doing. And why they are doing it. Elite athletes in the 400 at least are not using the "Feed the Cats" method. I don't argue with the Clyde Hart's methods when he coached two Olympic God Medalist and a Word Record holder in the 400. That would be insane. I have found no "Elite" 400 runners that do FTC. No Olympic Gold Medalist or WR holders. Maybe you know one. Most I have researched train more like how Banta trains his kids. I coach youth athletes, middle school and high school age. What I found is that most physical activity will help younger kids improve athletically. The caveat is that bad activities may have short term benefits but have long term harmful effects. Some training activities may have benefit but can be replaced by activities that give more bang for the buck. As I said, I like the FTC method for youth sprinters, but I recognize that the "Banta Method" works also. I have had Champions at my level using both methods. My main point is simply this "THERE IS MORE THAT ONE WAY TO FEED THE CATS."
Marcellus Moore, Kahmari Montgomery, Kenny Bednarek, and Joseph Fahnbulleh were all trained 100% FTC in high school. All four were superstars before their college coach ever met them.
Fred kerley. Gone back to short sprint training to improve his speed so he can run the 400m faster. He didn't take up 800m running to improve his endurance.
@@fatmansprinter Yep. Shouldn’t be a debate. If you can’t run 20.00 in the 200, you can’t run 44 in the 400. If you can’t run 21.00 in the 200, you can’t run 46 in the 400. If you can’t run 22.00 in the 200, you can’t run 48.00 in the 400. Speed is the ceiling, raise it.
Used to have a female 800 runner who would collapse at the end of every race. Once I convinced her she was strong enough to not do that and that she could still walk after the race she dropped 22 seconds in three weeks in the 800.
awesome. This debate series is helping me to clarify my thinking. There is truth in this approach. I think it is the right way to train high school kids. I think it’s the base of the pyramid. But I think to get the world class times you do need to overlay some tempo running. There is research showing that tempo running i.e. reps as slow as 13.5 seconds per 100 is specific enough to be included in sprint training. Most top 400 guys do not have typical sprint mechanics but more of a gazelle like stride. Cats versus gazelles. Also I used to train at the track that the Australian institute of sports olympic athletes used. I saw Pat Johnson in 10.2 (pb 9.94) shape run 48.6. I saw Jai Taurima who could run 10.4 and in around 21.3 shape (8.54 pb in lj and Oly 2000 silver) run 53s (I very satisfyingly beat him in this race in 50.8) and a friend of mine who was a 10.7 runner do 49.6. Feed the cats doesn’t always work for 400. Marcellos‘ time of 48.5 is actually not great for a 10.3 runner (but is still great for a high school runner). Off 100m speed of 10.3 then 44.5 is possible. On the internet I have seen an out of shape Wade Von Niekirk run an 800m race in 1:57. Usain Bolt even mentioned that his 800 pb in a training time trial was 2:05. You can get this type of 800 speed by doing 8-10 x 200 reps off 1-2 min recoveries in 28s without compromising speed too much. I just don’t think athletes should do hard tempo/lactic intervals until they are like 17.
Not sure if I got anything out of this or not? At Fountain Ft Carson we ran tempo 200’s. And we had guys run sub 50 flat every year. I ran 10.88, 21.78, and 48.20 in 1983. that workout never deteriorated or slowed us down. Monday we ran 3x300’s and ended the week with 10 x 100’s. That program produced world class sprinters that went to UCLA, USC, OU. Our School record there was 46.1. And that dude ran 10.44 in the 100. I’m just not getting this?
One of the biggest truths from Banta is: longer intervals don't kill speed. I did very minimal short speed work during the '21 season at age 61. Ability to turn over is fairly innate, and I'm a fast turnover runner (cadence about 270; 45 steps/10 sec). In '21, I never ran any race shorter than a 400m until Nationals, even raced two 800s. Then I won the M60 400m (56.23 SB), the 200m (25.36), medaled in the 100m (12.43) and Silver in the 800m (2:18.74) Medaling in all four events was a first at USATF Masters Nationals where all 3 sprints had Semis and Finals. Doing long sprint interval training certainly helped my overall speed, even my short game.
I think Tony`s system helps because it keeps kids from getting into acidosis too much and for too long. If you are constantly doing tempo even at mile pace (sprinters 70% ish) you`ll be affecting your health being at a low blood ph too often. Probably bring your running condition down too when it comes to race. Even Coe got ill doing too much buffering work. Tony seems to do what`s needed at the right time and the anaerobic system can get up to full steam in 4-6weeks (get better through the season in the 400m). That`s just my view as a 800m runner trying to improve my sprinter son. I do not like the get out of a rep token idea but if you haven`t got one you`re doing the rep! If my son is tired after a rep and he doesn`t want to do another one I`m not going to make him because he doesn`t have a token. That sounds like getting injured territory - I wouldn`t run another rep if I was exhausted so I wouldn`t make anyone else. It doesn`t help, more is not always better that`s what I tell my son and niece. Once you`ve had enough you`ve had enough. Yes tell your kids I think you can do x reps at x pace and it will help because x. But once you`ve had enough and you are 1-3 reps short sack it and move on. There is no one on the planet that can say 10 reps are better than 5 - if you`ve got the reaction you want from 5 why run 10.
I want to get back into high jump, which I can do in Florida, by going to collegiate and open meets as an unattached athlete. January - July is the indoor/outdoor season, and I can figure out a FTC approach based on your other videos and articles. I also understand you do “winter conditioning” which takes care of October - December. That leaves Fall open. What would you recommend I do for July - September?
More I listen to Ryan the more I think it's about him. Not having kids lying around forcibly is not a good idea. It's been proven that the closer your heart is to the ground the easier it is for your body to recover and for it to pump blood to the vital organs that's needed.
Hey coach. There are a lot of reasons and justifications for a number of philosophies. If you ever want to talk about my why please feel free to reach out. Always open to chat. If not that's ok. I would then say trust I am we and us person. This is how I speak with my team, coaches, and athletes. This also dictated my change in my master's so I could be better for my athletes and students. Looking forward to hearing from you.
I concur with Ryan on collapsing after any event. We have no clue where these kids are going after track. Could be military/law enforcement, wrestling, or any variety of other activities that require ‘looking for the next fight’ as a skill set. Yes you ‘can’ build mental toughness while still collapsing, but it might be an extremely detrimental habit for other areas of life
@@coachtonyholler you’re 100% positive you know the future of every athlete that you coach or coaches that will watch these videos? Because the inverse is true, a high school state track champion doesn’t mean I get the best fighter in my organization. Now is that track champion likely a better physical specimen than the kid that was a gamer growing up? Absolutely. But if I’ve got two track champions I want the one that can do combat calculus after redlining to the top of the mountain Not everyone watching speed training videos is training just for sport 😎
If anyone hasn't seen part one, here is the link: ruclips.net/video/WuhqsEfl8aM/видео.html
Final part will be posted later this week.
Coach Holler, I am so glad my son, a baseball athlete that got cut now runs track 200 and 400, doesn't run for the coach at the 21 min mark. My son and some of his sprint teammates started following your workouts a month before indoor season. To their surprise, the coach is now using your coaching method without them suggesting it him, They love it and the results my son is getting. Their coach is just in his second year as head coach but they have won the 4a state championship in the 4 x 400 previous two years. Your program is helping my son make this 4x400 relay team. Thank you
PS, They won the state 4x4 with a time of 3:18 last year , 3:23 the year before. 2 guys returning with 47.5 and 48.8. My son is on the verge to going under 50sec. I think he will get there using your program, Thanks again
Amazing! Fantastic!
Anyone that says their way is the only way and dismisses others as well as science, is full of crap. Although I lean towards Feed the Cats style of coaching, I have also coached using most of Coach Banta's methods. By the way, I changed to the Feed the Cats type of training with the same group that had been training with the "Banta" style. Same results. We dominated with both styles. I do prefer the FTC method for short sprinters. For 400 runners to be dominate, my experience shows that they need more event specific training.
In order to come up with the best methods for my athletes I studied training methods from coaches going back to Bud Winter. I looked at what Valeriy Borzov did to train for the 1972 Olympics. I followed Clyde Hart, Latif Thomas, Dennis Shaver, Dan Pfaff, Glen Mills, Carol Smith-Gilbert, etc. I studied the science of sprinting and energy production. I took what I liked and agreed with and implemented it. Changed when it was ineffective or found something better. The thought is to find out what the best training methods are by observing what the best and most succesful athletes in that event are doing. And why they are doing it. Elite athletes in the 400 at least are not using the "Feed the Cats" method. I don't argue with the Clyde Hart's methods when he coached two Olympic God Medalist and a Word Record holder in the 400. That would be insane. I have found no "Elite" 400 runners that do FTC. No Olympic Gold Medalist or WR holders. Maybe you know one. Most I have researched train more like how Banta trains his kids.
I coach youth athletes, middle school and high school age. What I found is that most physical activity will help younger kids improve athletically. The caveat is that bad activities may have short term benefits but have long term harmful effects. Some training activities may have benefit but can be replaced by activities that give more bang for the buck. As I said, I like the FTC method for youth sprinters, but I recognize that the "Banta Method" works also. I have had Champions at my level using both methods.
My main point is simply this "THERE IS MORE THAT ONE WAY TO FEED THE CATS."
Marcellus Moore, Kahmari Montgomery, Kenny Bednarek, and Joseph Fahnbulleh were all trained 100% FTC in high school. All four were superstars before their college coach ever met them.
Fred kerley. Gone back to short sprint training to improve his speed so he can run the 400m faster. He didn't take up 800m running to improve his endurance.
@@fatmansprinter Yep. Shouldn’t be a debate. If you can’t run 20.00 in the 200, you can’t run 44 in the 400. If you can’t run 21.00 in the 200, you can’t run 46 in the 400. If you can’t run 22.00 in the 200, you can’t run 48.00 in the 400. Speed is the ceiling, raise it.
@@coachtonyholler Okay. Are they doing it now in college?
@@dwayneacarter Don’t understand your question.
Used to have a female 800 runner who would collapse at the end of every race. Once I convinced her she was strong enough to not do that and that she could still walk after the race she dropped 22 seconds in three weeks in the 800.
Might have been the 3 weeks of training. 🙂
awesome. This debate series is helping me to clarify my thinking. There is truth in this approach. I think it is the right way to train high school kids. I think it’s the base of the pyramid. But I think to get the world class times you do need to overlay some tempo running. There is research showing that tempo running i.e. reps as slow as 13.5 seconds per 100 is specific enough to be included in sprint training. Most top 400 guys do not have typical sprint mechanics but more of a gazelle like stride. Cats versus gazelles. Also I used to train at the track that the Australian institute of sports olympic athletes used. I saw Pat Johnson in 10.2 (pb 9.94) shape run 48.6. I saw Jai Taurima who could run 10.4 and in around 21.3 shape (8.54 pb in lj and Oly 2000 silver) run 53s (I very satisfyingly beat him in this race in 50.8) and a friend of mine who was a 10.7 runner do 49.6. Feed the cats doesn’t always work for 400. Marcellos‘ time of 48.5 is actually not great for a 10.3 runner (but is still great for a high school runner). Off 100m speed of 10.3 then 44.5 is possible. On the internet I have seen an out of shape Wade Von Niekirk run an 800m race in 1:57. Usain Bolt even mentioned that his 800 pb in a training time trial was 2:05. You can get this type of 800 speed by doing 8-10 x 200 reps off 1-2 min recoveries in 28s without compromising speed too much. I just don’t think athletes should do hard tempo/lactic intervals until they are like 17.
Yes I remember Pat Johnson. I think the world class level is a different animal all together
Y’all two are comedy lol
Thanks!
Not sure if I got anything out of this or not? At Fountain Ft Carson we ran tempo 200’s. And we had guys run sub 50 flat every year. I ran 10.88, 21.78, and 48.20 in 1983. that workout never deteriorated or slowed us down. Monday we ran 3x300’s and ended the week with 10 x 100’s. That program produced world class sprinters that went to UCLA, USC, OU. Our School record there was 46.1. And that dude ran 10.44 in the 100. I’m just not getting this?
One of the biggest truths from Banta is: longer intervals don't kill speed. I did very minimal short speed work during the '21 season at age 61. Ability to turn over is fairly innate, and I'm a fast turnover runner (cadence about 270; 45 steps/10 sec). In '21, I never ran any race shorter than a 400m until Nationals, even raced two 800s. Then I won the M60 400m (56.23 SB), the 200m (25.36), medaled in the 100m (12.43) and Silver in the 800m (2:18.74) Medaling in all four events was a first at USATF Masters Nationals where all 3 sprints had Semis and Finals. Doing long sprint interval training certainly helped my overall speed, even my short game.
100% anecdotal … absolutely not conclusive.
True. @@coachtonyholler
Damn Coach Tony is straight savage lol
No holds barred.
I think Tony`s system helps because it keeps kids from getting into acidosis too much and for too long.
If you are constantly doing tempo even at mile pace (sprinters 70% ish) you`ll be affecting your health being at a low blood ph too often. Probably bring your running condition down too when it comes to race. Even Coe got ill doing too much buffering work.
Tony seems to do what`s needed at the right time and the anaerobic system can get up to full steam in 4-6weeks (get better through the season in the 400m).
That`s just my view as a 800m runner trying to improve my sprinter son.
I do not like the get out of a rep token idea but if you haven`t got one you`re doing the rep! If my son is tired after a rep and he doesn`t want to do another one I`m not going to make him because he doesn`t have a token. That sounds like getting injured territory - I wouldn`t run another rep if I was exhausted so I wouldn`t make anyone else. It doesn`t help, more is not always better that`s what I tell my son and niece. Once you`ve had enough you`ve had enough.
Yes tell your kids I think you can do x reps at x pace and it will help because x. But once you`ve had enough and you are 1-3 reps short sack it and move on. There is no one on the planet that can say 10 reps are better than 5 - if you`ve got the reaction you want from 5 why run 10.
I want to get back into high jump, which I can do in Florida, by going to collegiate and open meets as an unattached athlete. January - July is the indoor/outdoor season, and I can figure out a FTC approach based on your other videos and articles. I also understand you do “winter conditioning” which takes care of October - December. That leaves Fall open. What would you recommend I do for July - September?
Speed and Power... with tons of rest, recovery, and sleep.
Hi Tony, can I send you a snippet of an in season program or workout ideas that I have. Would welcome your critique. Many thanks.
Sure.
Coach I have a doubt. Is it only applicable for high school athletes or even for college athletes🤔🤔
All athletes!
More I listen to Ryan the more I think it's about him. Not having kids lying around forcibly is not a good idea. It's been proven that the closer your heart is to the ground the easier it is for your body to recover and for it to pump blood to the vital organs that's needed.
Hey coach. There are a lot of reasons and justifications for a number of philosophies. If you ever want to talk about my why please feel free to reach out. Always open to chat. If not that's ok. I would then say trust I am we and us person. This is how I speak with my team, coaches, and athletes. This also dictated my change in my master's so I could be better for my athletes and students. Looking forward to hearing from you.
I concur with Ryan on collapsing after any event. We have no clue where these kids are going after track. Could be military/law enforcement, wrestling, or any variety of other activities that require ‘looking for the next fight’ as a skill set. Yes you ‘can’ build mental toughness while still collapsing, but it might be an extremely detrimental habit for other areas of life
But track has NOTHING to do with military, law enforcement, or wrestling. 🙂
@@coachtonyholler you’re 100% positive you know the future of every athlete that you coach or coaches that will watch these videos? Because the inverse is true, a high school state track champion doesn’t mean I get the best fighter in my organization. Now is that track champion likely a better physical specimen than the kid that was a gamer growing up? Absolutely. But if I’ve got two track champions I want the one that can do combat calculus after redlining to the top of the mountain
Not everyone watching speed training videos is training just for sport 😎
@@nathancragg6202 Yes, but the video is about training athletes to run a track event, nothing else.
Sprinters seem to be total wusses who can't handle actual training this this need to minimize training time
Banta = 🤡