Solar Panels - Environmental Saviour or Another 'Green' Disaster?
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- Опубликовано: 13 окт 2024
- Solar Panels convert sunlight into electricity and the only emissions from making them are the smell of roses and a touch of vanilla. Right? Wrong!
In this video I take a look at a recent report from Ethical Consumer, focusing on 16 bands of solar panel and ask some key questions…
Are solar panels eco friendly?
What are solar panels made from?
Can you recycle solar panels?
Are the people who make solar panels paid correctly?
Does making solar panels involve forced labour, razor wire and factories that needed to install suicide nets?
There's a lot to digest in this one.
CONTENTS
00.00 introducing the subject
01.13 introducing ethical consumer
02.49 the current situation
03.24 how eco friendly are solar panels?
03.58 carbon in solar panel production?
04.43 pollution in solar panel production
05.36 how do you recycle solar panels?
06.43 what do you do with old solar panels?
07.40 ethics problems within the supply chain?
09.17 forced labour in solar panel supply chains?
13.53 what about conflict minerals?
14.07 are solar panel companies involved in lobbying?
16.24 the company behind the brand… and worker suicides
18.16 conclusion
16 SOLAR PANEL BRANDS:
GB-Sol
Yingli
JinkoSolar
LONGi
Suntech
Trina Solar
JA Solar
Viessmann Solar
Canadian Solar
SunPower
Sharp
Hanwa -Q-Cells
Vikram Solar
Hyundai
Panasonic
Rec Solar
LINKS
Ethical Consumer's report on Solar Panels (By Katalin Csatadi with additional research by Shanta Bhavnani.
www.ethicalcon...
What can I do?
If you want to support these efforts, sign the following petitions:
Freedom United is calling on world leaders to ensure clean energy is free of forced labour. Find out more on the Freedom United website.
www.freedomuni...
Corporate Justice Coalition is campaigning for a new UK law to hold businesses to account when they fail to prevent supply chain human rights abuses and environmental harms. This would cover Uyghur forced labour. Find out more from the Corporate Justice Coalition website.
corporatejusti...
So long as you don't bother digging to find where the 'green' revolution starts or even where it will end you'll be fine. The more the dig the more disillusioned you become.. Thanks GBC for being our JCB!
Very true - great comment 👊
That depends where you dig. If you dig through oil lobby & conspiracy-theory drivel you're absolutely right.
Have a look at Squirrel tribe and the Ohio disaster .
@@francesbrown5116Thanks, I'll check that out!
@@francesbrown5116 squirrel 🐿️ she is doing a great job
Solar is great on my boat to charge 2 batteries but it won't power a house, especially when its not sunny! Wind generators are much more sense but dependant on a breeze. All the rhetoric from anyone in Westmonster should be treated with contempt as they are all guilty of persistent lies to make their mates more money...fact! Great work as always Geoff 👏
BTW Uyghur is pronounced wee-guhz, a Turkic minority that the PRC have been killing off as they don't fit with communist dreams of the twisted and brutal chinese government. Its a sick world buddy...
My Dad has a wind turbine (cost over ten grand), but in no way does that power his whole house. He's an electrician and at peak power it gives just about 3KW, so he rigged it up so it makes hot water then in colder months he heats up one storage heater at a time from the turbine. Still has to be connected to the mains.
Problem is wind cannot be within x feet of another property so is completely out in built up areas even the smallest capacity turbines 🤦♂️✌️
Not enough copper etc to make the first lot of wind turbines needed let alone the replacements
Add in the suffering involved in the mining , not a very useful or kind solution imho
Wind power is rubbish for domestic users. Solar much better in terms of generation per pound.
Makes for sobering reading. We have solar panels, to reduce our bills. This is very similar the EV cars, we are simply not being given the whole picture, as it would obviously destroy the net zero religion myth. If feel saddened this information is not made public. Thanks Geoff for you videos, most welcome.
For cheap energy see nuclear.
@@TheLiamis And what do you do with the spent fuel rods?
@@craigbrett672 store them for the time being. It is my understanding they are developing reactors capable of running on the "spent" rods. When it is really spent it has a half life of only a few years.
It's sad that the supposedly informed politicians are not having this conversation. Oh, I forgot, they are in it for themselves, not for the country. Politics needs the reset, not us.
@@avid6186 they don't store thme, they are sent to Sellafield for reprocessing and "recharging" with more Uranium. Problem with this is that it causes nuclear waste which has a half life of 100's of years. I'd rather have Nuclear than Fossil fuel power stations but the politicians need to be more honest (sic) that Nuclear is not as clean as they say - see Chernobl.
As someone who got solar fairly recently I am not doing it for the environment as I'm aware of the CO2 footprint and the issue with panels at the end of their service life but I'm just looking to lower my electricity bill. I must send mixed messages for people who see solar panels, coal smoke coming from my house and still driving a 2.0L diesel.
I purchased my set for energy independence, with my Powerwall we can no longer tell if there has been power cut in our district.
@Patriotic Duty I chose the Telsa Powerwall as it was "On Offer" from the chosen installer, with no lead time, 2+ years ago. The energy crisis has changed all that, thanks government! The Tesla is neat and self-contained, I actually have the battery unit in my garden office, not problem at all. I had originally looked at Victron, out of Australia, but not many installers. If you are using energy then the payback is much faster, sending it to the grid is a joke, the rate they are giving it awful. Like I said I use a lot of power, so I save money every second the sun shines, about £1500 last year, plus we are no longer reliant on a 100% grid supply, we don't know if there has been a power cut, only the other house alarms going off give us a clue. Solar and battery is the way forward, I'd say get as much solar as you can fit / afford, that is the limiting factor.
Same reason. I have them because i want to save money and they raise the value of the house if you want to sell. March should be the last month electrical bill until October (i get paid electrical spot price to sell and with it usually being lower in the night than on days when the panels are producing = sell high, buy cheap🤑 )
If the crazy prices of last year continues the payback will be just 6 years for my system. If we go back to more normal it's of course longer
At least solar panels seam to last. We have a couple from the early 90s on my parents summer house. They still work just as fine as they did then.
Ha ha
@Patriotic Duty many things that were cheap once now are expensive to dispose of. Waste disposal is where money will be made as everything is so tightly controlled. In some places it costs the earth to take Waste to your local tip and you'll have to queue for the privilege.
Geoff I totally agree with you at the end , i still use my 90’s stereo system both my Tvs are from like 2007 still
Work fine, both my cars are from 2003 one of which has 180,000 miles on the clock and is still working fine i dont need new stuff my old stuff works perfectly fine
I am frequently disappointed by new products. My laptop which runs my media and internet is 14 years old at least, my amp and speakers are from the 80’s and 90’s both were second hand years ago, my car is 27 years old, we have a tumble drier that’s nearly 45 years old, I use tools which are 20 + years old etc. I’m not tight or poor yet but I’m reluctant to update that which I can keep servicing and using.
Between us we’re helping save the planet! 😂
My phone that I'm typing this very message on is 9 years old.
I'll keep it until its no longer fit for purpose... Aka.. Lasts all day on a charge.
My van that I use for my business is 20 years old and has covered 460,000 miles. Has just passed its mot only needing a suspension spring.
My home was built in the early 1700's. Nothing is flat, square, level or plumb, but I wouldn't want to live in a new build box.
Spot On 👌 I have a 28 year old kettle that has been used numerous times, every day since I purchased it New back in the mid 1990's . My spare mobile phone is a NOKIA 6310i form around the same time which still works as intended and to this day holds it's charge for number of days (unlike my iPhone which needs charging every day) I also owned a 2007 SAAB 9-5 TiD which had genuine 295,000 miles on the odometer when I sold it on in full roadworth condition with a valid MOT certificate.
There is a brilliant man called Dane Wiggington who, twenty years or so ago, moved to the hills and went off grid. Very quickly he discovered that the electricity that he anticipated was not forthcoming. A bit of research and he discovered it was because of the 24/7 California Chemtrails. He didn’t waste time moaning, he started the superb 🌧Geo 🌧engineering 🌧Watch 🌧 Org 🌧 which researches and tests the weaponised toxic junk being sprayed on us day in and day out. Try to find time for his informative documovie “The Diming”.
If you look closely at all the movies, outside broadcasts, gardening programmes you will see chemtrails in every one and virtually every country. We are being brainwashed to think that this is normal sky. This is one of the reasons why they have been deleting the older members of the population. We can remember normal skies (Look at some of the old war movies) and we remember “freedom”. Land, sea, lakes, rivers, fish, animals, agriculture, all being destroyed along with the humans. The toxins from the vehicles are nothing compared to what is being sprayed on us, Sadiq Khan LOOK UP! Namaste 🙏💜🙏
Exactly 💯
Geoff, in pointing to the World Economic Forum you have got it spot on. It is frightening to find how they have a finger in every catastrophe going.
Brilliant in depth investigative reporting. I hear the bbc are looking for people like you. The good news is that it pays 1.35 million a year with short hours and basically you can say what you want and you won't get sacked. Get your cv in the post today lad.
Cheers Geoff!
Indeed and an essential prerequisite is to believe without question anything reported by Amnesty International and other Guardian lovies.
Like the world is short of Gary Lineker clones? 😮 Don't go there Geoff!
My neighbor is 10 years into it and still has not broken even. Still has a big electric bill! There are too many cloudy days here in Houston! Plus the 35C summer afternoons!
Probably works out better in countries like the UK where we pay more for our electricity!
Put a solar hot water system in.
Still not broken even in 10 years? In Houston? Texas? Isn't it hot and sunny there...?
@@GeoffBuysCars I thought exact same thing? Hmm
@@GeoffBuysCars Texas, with ERCOT, the utterly broken electricity supplier that fails when it's hot, cold, or someone looks at it wrong. With zero regulation on pricing - during the freeze last year some people saw bills > $10,000 for a month.
They also have the problem of 100F for months at a time, with badly insulated homes - if you are trying to cool a large house, you could happily burn through the output of a 6kw array (about 18 panels) and still not have enough to run the A/C.
Although the comment says "hasn't broken even", as they still have a big electricity bill. But presumably the bill would have been higher without it and it's that difference that should be going against the solar cost, not whether you are no longer paying for electricity.
Another meaning of 'green' is 'naive and easily deceived or tricked'.
In Australia, a lot of people were goosed into buying solar for the generous feed in tariffs........5 years later, the feed in tariffs started being lowered, now they are basically nothing. Now power companies have been given the green light to not pay for feed in power at all. The other big problem is lifespan......they need to last 50 years, not 25......and to do that they need to be cooled in hot climates to reduce the degradation of the panels. An Australian company are making dual purpose panels that cool themselves (increased lifespan) by making domestic hot water as a byproduct. The really big problem is storage, and lithium doesnt cut it...........they have 60% degradation of capacity in just ten years, and cost 300% more to dispose of, than to make. Realistically, it would be more efficient and less polluting to use solar heat collectors to heat a high temperature liquid, that goes into a storage tank, and runs a stirling engine 24/7 to generate power instead of these PV panels. That way the system almost lasts forever, has storage and doesnt use exotic,toxic materials.
Some excellent points raised there Geoff and succinctly put. Thanks for making us think too and not just run after the next great technology or energy source! 😎☀🍃
Rotary phones may have been the last piece of tech that was wholesome.
I want one.
I am so glad that you are pointing out the evil human cost behind our seemingly innocuous products.
This is effectively the worst kind of SL4VERY and for many poor souls the apocalypse is already here ! :(
@stephenbrown1077 What Geoff has just put out about China and Chinese factories is pure Western hate-filled propaganda. Where is Geoff's video evidence where are the video interviews of parents of victims conducted in front of a British Embassy official where are the videos of the barb-wired enclosed slave camps where is the video footage of Geoff's silage Pitts fitted with Geoff's and the wests propaganda bullsh1t located?. American satellites can read the writing on a gravestone and Geoff wants us to believe that the Americans would pass up a propaganda coup against the Chinese like this I say bollox. You know I marvel at the gullibility of people until I remember the majority voted for Brexit are you a down-and-out fisherman by any chance.
The issue of payback is interesting, most of the calculations are based on the panels operating in peak conditions, a sunny day, and new clean pannels.
An averadge day with more cloud cover and panels with algae and dirt on them and the energy generation is vastly reduced.
Take the sin of your longitude and divide by the sin of 30 (roughly close to Tucson, AZ), and multiply by 1.5 kW/m2 to get your peak rate of insolation (very rough estimate) (that's not the precise trigonometric solution, but a decent approximation)
Multiply that by the number of sunny days you get per year divided by 300. (Tuscon, AZ is often used as a benchmark location for solar economics - and they typically get around 300 sunny days per year)
Now, you have a rough estimate of the useful incident sunlight available.
Divide that number by 2 to get a ballpark figure for what your brand new solar panels can produce. Divide that by two for a rough estimate of what they'll produce after a few years.
I've not done the math on the rate of degradation due to ambient air temperature, but if it's above 25 C, you'll experience it.
Above 30 C, with all of the issues with dust and limescale from washing the glass covers with city water, and solar cells in California and Arizona don't typically last more than 10 years. Of that, maybe 5 years are truly economic.
Factor your depreciation schedule accordingly.
All I know is that after placing 24 x 350-watt panels on my roof, I no longer pay unbelievable prices for electricity. In Australia where our winters are as hot as your summers and our summer, in rural towns where I live can have an average of 31-44 degrees Celsius for 6 months of the year and for the other 6 months between 20 -35 Celsius. Our air cons run pretty much 24 hours a day. My bills were on average $1,450.00 a quarter, it would be even more now. But mine are $0.00. Ya gotta luv, solar panels.
How much of you economics are driven by government policy and taxes?
Things might work out for the individual living in a sunny location, but cost your neighbors / society an unaffordable ton.
I cannot make anything other than "free" solar pay (at the cost of giving up my back yard) in Los Angeles.
My parents, in rural San Diego County, can make theirs pay, but they are coming up on the 10 year mark for service. Since my folks are in their 80s, it's now a bit of a race to see if they will need to replace the array, or if I do it as executor of their estate when selling it off.
The solar panels we had for our small water feature were crap. They only worked when in direct sun, if a cloud went across or the sun moved away they stopped dead. Squirrels also bit through the wiring.
Maybe in a region with extremely strong sunlight, they may work better, but not really in NW nations with many overcast days.
Geoff, please do some exposure on the other alternatives they are going to try to force us to use. Currently, the EU is drafting new regulations that will enforce all people with properties to comply or lose the right to use those properties (it is suspected that landlords will lose out first and then homeowners soon afterward: 'You will own nothing and be :) '.
People may believe that will not affect us but, as many of us know, what happens on the continent tends to be forced onto our island too; this is a global agenda, after all. It is estimated that home and business owners will have to fork out tens of thousands, ongoing, for numerous updates to their older builds by 2030 (at least pass a grade F certification by then) and by 2033 (a grade E) and so on. One of the updates will be to fully remove all gas boilers and central heating (something many are unaware of, even if they support some green initiatives). In fact, Germany has already started this by stating that a ban on gas and oil boilers could be implemented by 2024. The alternative to those? Definitely not log burners (which are already being presented as harmful to your health and the environment; convenient and predictable) but geothermal (ground) heating. It is incredibly expensive to implement in homes (it either requires horizontal piping laid out throughout your garden/land - goodbye to the landscaped garden - or can be laid vertically beneath homes, so just imagine the work needed). Worse still? It is not suited to all landscapes or homes (making those void - intentionally would be my guess). Guess who is funding some of the tech and lobbying governments to incorporate it into their net zero enforcements? Yes, that infamous man with the initials B.G. The entire concept is based on the principle that the ground takes in heat from the sun and the piping will conserve that for use to heat your home and water. How much heat, realistically, will the ground save in our northern nations? Nations with the least amount of sunlight at the best of times. Good luck to those in Nordic countries who live in darkness for half of the year. My garden's aspect is NW facing and it gets bugger-all sunlight on it during the autumn and winter; so my family would freeze to death. I guess that is okay in order to 'save the planet'. I am sure the UN/WEF/IMF members will continue on keeping warm beside the huge fires burning within their sprawling estates that often encompass hundreds or acres of land (taking more than 15 minutes for them to navigate through).
Actually, whilst on the subject of apparently 'saving the planet' is it not an ironic coincidence that those individuals and groups who are enforcing so much in order to put the planet first (not really; just agenda twenty one) and to try to preserve as much of it as possible - to (apparently) limit devastating effects they claim will occur - are the exact same individuals and groups who are avidly trying to muster up support to kickstart WWIII with the threat of nuclear. The damage from the latter would cause to the environment would not be comparable with anything cars or gas boilers could do! Yet nobody seems to notice the b*llsh*ttery for what it actually is; just that.
www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/european-parliament-agrees-position-on-buildings-law-despite-pushback/
Texas found that out 2 years ago the big freeze solar and wind failed so who was it who said our kids wouldnt know what snow is lol
Have a look at Squirrel tribe she's very tenacious at getting to the truth of whats going on Palestine Ohio train disaster .
Squirrels 🐿️🐿️🐿️ don't care about all the green propaganda. Just like using their teeth.
@@ianstobieUK has already signed up to what you describe. It comes into force next year which is why many landlords are selling up - dumping their houses before the market collapses
@@lynchetts landlords are selling up because of 🐿️🐿️🐿️ squirrels? Wow - who would've thunk it!
Good look on that one. Geoff.. Press option 1for slave labour. 2 for sales and lobbying 3 for recycling. Sorry that option isn't available. 😱
Oh man this is the best comment.
And, 10 years from now, the original sellers will have folded their tents and slipped away into the night, leaving the taxpayers holding the bill for the disposal.
Hi Geoff. If you pronounce it wee-gars I think you’re pretty close. They are being persecuted because they are muslins and their fate would make a whole new video. Shot on sight if they try to escape…many have just “disappeared” and others have organs harvested. Forced labour in the factories is probably as good as it gets. Truly horrific and as long as firms supplying the $’s then few care. I would like to say that the USA was making a ethical stand but I think it has far more to do with protectionism and ensuring supply chains after the disruption of covid.
I listened to an interview on Joe Rogan #1914 episode with man who exposed the lithium trade. Everyone should be made to watch it. He concluded there is NO ethically mind Colbert. Even if I could afford an EV. I wouldn’t . I couldn’t live with the hypocrisy. Looks like the same for lithium, the majority of minerals in developing countries, no doubt. 😏
Everyone In The west is about to be wee gars/ pal est Inians I'd we dont resist
Great comment. Worrying.
Not to mention harvesting their organs! Truly horrific!
Nike use slave labour to produce their trainers, or if they’ve stopped they still have strong links to the companies that do use slave labour. People are forced to leave their families and work on the factories and aren’t allowed to return home
Excellent, thought provoking video Geoff 👍🏼
Green Energy, an Impractical solution to an Imaginary problem.
Nailed it.
@@GeoffBuysCars except that the USA is running out of easy accessible shale gas and fracked oil. North sea doesn't have much left. So OPEC and Russia is your choice in 10 years, oils and gas going to get seriously expensive. So best to use oils and coal where you really need to, like manufacturing. Transport, heating homes and cooking can all be greener stuff where you can. We will never get rid of oil or gas for production and renewables will never replace 100% of fossils fuels,people need to get real on both sides of the argument.
Well put
Totally agree!!
That my friend is the best analogy I’ve heard 🫵💯🎯
I lived in a 'green' house in Vermont for three years in the late 1970s. We even had two windmills in the yard. I used to give tours telling everyone how great it was, but the systems never really worked. I just explained how they were supposed to work. Ultimately all of the people who built the house moved out. So there you go.
Well done . Good and informative . Persuaded me not to waste my time using them
Even with the taxpayer subsidies, I can't make them pay for my house near Los Angeles)
Time for some net zero bollocks busting
Well said. It’s a crock of shit. A costly one at that.
Yes let's go 👍
Mine are LG, they only produce in South Korea and the USA. Didn't spot them in the report. Great panels they are too, totally reliable for the last 7.5 years
But where are the raw materials coming from?
@@orwellboy1958 You took so long to reply LG have given up making solar panels 😆
Hi. I have just contacted Mendip council here in Somerset and the chap didn’t know but he gave me the number of our local recycling centre and they apparently will take them. They need the number of panels and notice of when you intend to take them. I was surprised because the centre is not that big, but hey the answer was yes. Keep up the great work you are doing on your channel. Love it. ❤Di J
The "notice" gives them time to dig a hole to bury them.
@@paulpaintshop103 Ah ha ha!
Ah that's interesting! And you do'nt need to pay?
I see where are coming from Geoff, but lots of what you are saying can be laid at the door of any/all products made in the Far East. I have 3.5Kw solar and a Tesla Powerwall. I did not purchase them to be "super green", I bought them to save money on bills (£1500 last year) and give me a level of energy independence. The Powerwall can power the whole house for 12 hours, ie overnight, depending on demand. In winter they are less useful, even on sunny days output is low, but from March to November they can power my entire house. I use a lot of energy, running a computer server 24/7, during the summer we often take zero energy from the grid for days at a time, while the sun shines.
The government have outsourced almost all manufacturing, pushing the pollution and emissions to China, this is not green and not sustainable.
Great comment.
Are you still paying standing charges though?
As an update to this, moved to the Octopus Energy Flux tariff, which has low med and high rates.
The powerwall charges overnight on cheap, then uses during peak and mid depending solar generation.
The Tesla is very clever, and dumps power to the grid depending on the solar energy forecast!
So, I buy energy at 16p off peak and sell it back at 29p, plus any from the solar excess.
It's working very well.
Yep, I live next door to a family that have a large roof area on their bungalow totally covered with panels. They inherited the system when they moved in several years ago. They are not impressed one bit and have calculated that the power generated is barely is enough to run their family freezer! The previous owner paid a small fortune for the installation and as others have said here was unlikely to have broken even during his lifetime.
I know several people with inherited solar systems both people made similar comments. One of them reckoned the instalation was about six years old, and he had just had to have an inverter replaced.
The other bemoaned the fact that the panels didn't actually produce that mutch electricity and nowhere near his expectations.
@@paulf2529 Yes, I would imagine that there will be thousands of homes with old worn out panels doing absolutely nothing in a few years as they all begin to pack up! The replacement cost will no doubt be prohibitive and so they will just sit there! Even the International Space Station needed additional replacement panels as the old ones have been degrading. I wonder if something similar will start to happen with EV's! 🙄
Great information very useful to know, Thanks for putting your time to educate us.
Kris Harbor channel is the most energy independent person on RUclips.
He uses Solar ,Wind and Hydro.
For myself. Running solar panels has nothing to do with being green(I do love our planet and natural environment, but I don't buy the climate nonsense) I run solar so I have energy independence. The only energy I pay for is bottled gas for some of my cooking needs, but I mainly cook on my wood stove and I buy diesel for my truck(98 transit)... Oh! And a little petrol for my chainsaw... I saw all this madness coming years ago, so got myself off grid and out of the city.
Love you Geoff, you talk the real deal unlike many others :) Give me a shout if you need any help etc with the tech side of things (websites, computers etc....) as that is my bag and I would be happy to help!
Love your channel and your straight talking no-nonsense, we need more people like you!
Pop me an email over, help is always welcome :)
I am here in the US, work as a nurse in the prison and all the prisoners work in the meat packing, potato processing plants and telemarketing industries here. The fun fact is that these prisoners love it. If you have issues with using products done by prisoners, then solar panels are the least of your worries.
The prisoners CHOOSE to do it. The prisoners in China have not commited any crime, they are instead convicted on false claims of slandering the government. BIG difference. I question your abilities as a nurse, as it appears you have zero compassion.
Love to hear some stories from you if you'd like to email me.
So that's less or no jobs for honest people then at a proper decent wage. That's Herr Hitlers idea in action.
One thing is being a prisoner due to crimes committed, another is being a prisoner because big guy Mao doesn't like your existence.
I BET the companies that benefit from this labor love it even MORE! I bet Smithfield is in on this little tiff, the Chinese love some forced labor schemes to lower production cost!
We had a very big fire in the Netherlands in a town called Ter Aar. This was also due to solar panels catching fire.
I see this is 3 month old. Must have missed it. Wow what an eye opener. You such a truthful man and exposing this is fantastic. Food for thought. This one.
Uyghur is pronounced something like: wee-ger
Xinjiang is pronoiunced shin - jee-ang
Photovoltaic solar cells are semiconductors, made in the same manner as computer chips on wafers of polysilicon, which is made by cooking silica sand in hydrogen.
The hydrogen is made by reacting methane with steam at high temperature and pressure.
The semiconductor part is a wafer fab, using thing like gadolinium, arsenic, and treatment with chemicals including hydrgen fluoride.
Once the cells are fabricated into panels, you need to get them installed. Most often, that means putting them on your roof - which at best was made to hold a snow load, but will need to be rebuilt in order to support the solar panels.
The projected 40 year service life is a bad joke. You might get a less bad service life in the UK, but in the sunbelt of the United State, you'll be lucky to get 10 years.
The glass covers of the panels need to be kept clean, as dust, dirt, or limescale from washing with city water will all block the sunlight.
In the sunbelt, we do not get rain to wash the glass, but we do get about 300 days per year of good sunlight. The incident sunlight goes down in intensity as you move further away from the Equator.
"Good" insolation comes in at about 1.5 kW/m2 - two "perfect" 1 m2 PV panels provide roughly enough electricity to power a lady's hair dryer. Equipment is not 100% effecient, and never can be. The Second Law of Thermodynamics being the fundamental reason why.
Now, the cells / panels are not 100% effecient, which means that there is waste heat to be rejected. Two problems with heating up you semiconductors - they lose even more efficiency, and they degrade permanently, for reduced service life.
Tucson Arizona is used a lot as the reference location for solar energy production - where that peak value of 1.5 kW comes from. Tucson also happens to be in a desert, and many days out of the year has temperatures well hotter than 30 C - sort of the threshhold backplane temperature for the PV panels.
Problem is, in order to reject heat, the emitting surface needs to be hotter than the cooling medium (ambient air), so you backplane can easily exceed 38 to 40 C
So, in your Sonoran or Mojave desert locations - or similar - with really good insolation, you lack water to wash the cells, forget about water cooling, and you bake them while they deliver a greatly reduced output. 10 years of useful service is about the best I've heard for solar arrays ranging from Florida to California.
As for disposing of aged-out solar panels, good luck finding the right people to do it - the original sellers will be long gone, and it'll fall on the national governments to pick up the tab, using more of our tax money.
The solar cell lobby sure loves them our tax money, but we the consumers / taxpayers get shafted.
Thanks Geoff for speaking out on this climate BS...more power to you....👍
Hi Geoff. Have you received mail from Worcs County Council about solar panels and your home? Here In Wyre Forest we've had the solar panel bumpf called 'Solar Together' which landed on our doorstep. Basically it's the Council's initiative to farm out the solar panel work to get the best price for households in the WF area.
This is very interesting as I had my quote for panels & battery today, and the fact it will take 8 years to pay for itself whilst using 66% of home-farmed solar electricity
...your estimated return on investment is just a guess... and not even an educated guess at that because there are several assumptions made that can never be estimated accurately. As an example, I have a small solar array feeding 3 grid tie inverters, after 18 months one went bang and required a new inverter to replace it... ROI pushed back another few years! I doubt I will ever get there.
Here in Crawley near Gatwick, our conservative party rag has a boast that made me spit my fruit and fibre all over my keyboard. It crows that "We shamed our Labour council into speeding up the councils net zero target "
They should be ashamed of themselves. The fuckin' wankers.
I was at Angelos bar in Kassioppi, Corfu recently and he clocked my Nokia phone, no camera. He immediately said 'You are not a slave' with a beaming smile, lovely fella
They always talk about 'cost' to recycle but my interest is in how much energy and how much waste etc is produced from recycling..? Is it more toxic to recycle them, and does it use a lot of energy (particular fossil fuels)..? Love ya work mate..!
I recently heard on a tv program that the cost to recycle solar panels was in the region of $50, but the elements extracted were only worth about $22, that's why no one does it.
Do a follow up video on the efficiency of solar panels Geoff!? I hear tha the slightly older ones are less than 25% efficient!!
Not even close. More like 14%.
New one's are quoted around 22.5%
@@tonymaloan Where can I get these stats....?
@@djtaylorutube Where can I get these stats....?
@@GeoffBuysCars You'll find them on the panel data sheets. My solar panels were installed in about 2011 and I distinctly remember the efficiency at the time of 14%. Sharp panels were considered among the best at the time at about 16 to to 18% but much more expensive. Some panels were quoted as having higher efficiency than true because they'd quote the cell efficiency rather than the overall panel which is lower.
Panels are somewhere around 20% for good ones now. Some a tad higher.
That said, I'm on the "Golden" original Feed In Tariff which is currently paying 68p per kWh generated whether I use it or not. Then I get paid another amount which assumes that half the generated power is exported.
It isn't exported though, it goes into a solar battery for me to use.
The panels paid off a long time ago. The battery cost is paid off and the income from the next decade and a bit will go a long way to paying for the EV both in capital from generation and reduction of fuel cost.
Win, win, win.
Note; That Feed In Tariff ended a long long time ago.
We live in sub tropical Brisbane, where every second house has PV panels on the roof. We have had 6.5 kW of panels for five years now. They halved our power bills and paid for themselves after about three years. They're still producing at about 85% of the initial power, probably would help if I washed them down now and then. As I write its midday in mid winter and the panels are producing 3.1 kW of which 80% is going out to the grid. We use a lot of power to run the air con in summer and heating in winter, so we are not nett exporters, but we offset 85% of our usage. One of the best decisions I ever made. 👍🇦🇺
Regarding your iPhone and saying you would pay "more money to have a product that is not involved in any of this stuff"
The problem is not a need to pay more money, it is supporting a company (all companies?) with absolutely no moral values. Apple is one of the most profitable companies in terms of the cost to make the product vs the price they sell it to you for. More money would just mean more profit for Apple. They are not using Foxconn because that's all they can afford, they are literally asking for the absolute cheapest manufacturing costs available in the world. Apple is an American company, the profit margin on an iPhone is so high, that they could be hand-made in the USA, if they wanted, and still have a high profit margin, but they go with the cheapest of the cheapest. Barely a month goes by where Foxconn doesn't get caught using child labour, despite being fined for using child labour over and over and over
Great comment.
Thanks brilliant if worrying information. I won't be getting any of these any time soon.
You mention carbon footprint but there is another measurement that was missed.
The amount of energy used to make and deliver the panel compared to the amount of energy it produces in its working life.
This figure will of course be less favorable the further north the panel is installed.
It’s interesting to see at what latitude it breaks even.
Same question as regards to wind turbines, there are tons of steel in the blades, fibreglass also. Then it is all anchored to the earth by god knows how many tons of concrete. How can they be labelled renewable or green energy. Every part literally has to be dug out of the earth.
Where possible buy local buy goods from your country . USE CASH .
We must bear in mind that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere is only 0.04%. Furthermore, if it were lower all plants would suffer as it is essential to their growth. Carbon has an atomic number of 6, & has 6 electrons, 6 neutrons & 6 protons and is present in every living lifeform. ruclips.net/video/KGn-6kGoD0c/видео.html
They don’t work with snow!
Dear Geoff
I had a 12 panel solar system fitted two years ago.... The "professional" installers fitted them on a northeast facing roof!.... while the sun was shining on the southwest facing roof.
I was livid!
Solar power is great, but like many others, I think net zero is bollocks. i just want them to say FU to the energy companies (and the gov, and the council, and the "man" (and anyone else I can think of). Nothing says FU like energy independence, no/low bills, your own water supply, grow as much of your own food etc etc. Its up to every bloke to be as independent as possible then you really *dont* have to put up with as much of their shit.
I feel the same. I got solar to save me money, and it will. I’m not about to start caring more about working conditions in China when I never have for anything else I get from there. Last year I saved £1200 by not buying electricity and I sold £280 worth I didn’t use.
Fun fact.
Uk wholesale electric cost is 12p kWh. We get charged 30p+ in most cases.
We are getting SCAMMED! WEF can't have a great reset without a great crash I suppose.
Well said Geoff.
My mother fitted a large solar system.. on bright days not bad but through most of the winter when you need heating and lighting hardly enough for a kettle. The large control box ( rectifier? ? ). Had three pack up. Seven hundred a piece. Next one to pack up the system is getting removed.
Great comment. That's really worrying.
Another great video Geoff, can I say on this video title picture the picture of klaus Schwab, I'm sorry but he looks like Dr evil from the austin powers franchise. Which fits him quite well.
Why don’t Electric Cars have SOLAR panels on there roofs to self charge Geoff? Love your show and Love my 850 , I have green number plates too!
I thought some of them do actually
The car roof area will give you about 1 to 2 miles per day, on a sunny day, using current solar technology. It's not enough to be worth the additional weight and complexity. Might be useful for running some auxiliary systems though.
Generators built in the back wheels would be better
Not efficient enough to produce enough power on that limited surface area
@@terryhuggett3799 They do have regenerative braking I think, or 'KERS'. Only want to generate power from wheels kinetic energy when braking, otherwise it'd use more power than it creates: just basic thermodynamics.
As someone that spent the first 29 years of my life in the U.K. i cannot see how any amount of solar could be possible in a country that gets maybe 90 days a year without clouds. In the area of the U.S. where i live it is cloudy about 200 days a year and solar is not practical. Given that the average property in the U.K is about the size of a postage stamp you would need a flat roof covered in solar panels to boil an egg for breakfast . Don't get me wrong i have a solar system but only for emergencies and running my pool pump but i would have to spend 20 years electricity bills to be self sufficient and would have to cover an acre of my property with solar panels.
This is unbelievable but entirely unsurprising.
Ditto anything made in China I’d assume - so almost everything then.
Well done for doing this.
I knew it was going to be bad, but I wasn't aware of HOW bad, and the link to Herr Schwabb surprised me.
Let me start by saying how much I like your videos and the information you provide, this video comes across as rather scathing about people who have invested (sometimes a lot of money) in solar systems, I recently retired and last year spent a fair amount having solar system fitted to my house along with loft installation, the reason it was done was to reduce my expenses during retirement not to look good or virtue signal to my neighbours.
Some insurance companies won't let you put them on your roof 🤔 Some are Shared Ownership (AVOID) 😳 So many negatives with owning them 👎 Note:If there are to many people in the world, then give us an incentive not to reproduce 👍
I keep saying this to people. But they don't want us to stop reproducing on our own accord until they have extracted every last possible penny from each and every one of us.
My wife works in insurance so she made sure our panels were of the right quality. They have an isolator and can also be monitored from an app. No negatives at all from what I can see. Payback time (including Powerwall) is looking to be about 4 to 5 years at the moment.
Is not a bit of a mess, is a massive mess 😳
You need coal to make steel and solar panels.
And oil for making insulating plastics used for the copper wire?
@@VL-qy4fc Fun fact, a lot of copper insulation has a fish oil component. I was trying to understand why the local fox kept chewing my outdoor cables - the electrician told me they can smell fish, think it's food and try to eat it!
@@M0LHA interesting 😊
They are having a similar problem with some copper wire insulation that contains soya, the animals are earning through it
@@ebikescrapper3925 My genuine concern is it'll attract animals. Insulation, ie the type for lofts, that's a banquet for rats. At the very least they could spray it with some sort of inhibiter to supress the smell they are attracted to?
Yes I'm in! I'd like some of that please...
Glad to know at least some people are kept in misery for my privileged benefit.
I love it too. F' em all.
Besides the polluting, poisonous and deadly minerals and compounds used to produce the photo-voltaic solar panels, their production requires and uses enormous quantities of high grade coal which is burnt at very high temperatures, which means that producing solar panels is very much NOT green.
The biggest news is there is no climate crisis but one huge con, this country has enjoyed temperatures ver 6 degrees warmer than today’s temperatures and life went on.
Cheers Geoff
Solar panels are made out of Coal and Quarts fused together in a Coal-Fired Furnace you have to have a battery pack fitted as well, to store power for night time use these cost anything between £7k to £10k and will need replacing every 7 to 10 years panels have about 15 to 20 year life, Get a Diesel power Generator it will be cheaper..
And greener.
I have had 23 solar panels on my roof since 2011 and I would say that there is, obviousely, an advantage but nowhere near what you are led to believe. I have found that you can't generate electricity at night, in summer you get good results when it is not quite so critical for your needs, but it is pretty poor in winter when you could really do with good electricity generation. A bit like wind generation really. When the wind blows it's good when the wind doesn't blow it's not so good. Let me just say that I am not getting rid of my gas central heating any time soon, but I am keeping the solar panels because it does help a bit with the electric in the winter. Not much but a bit. Oh! and I am getting payment via your energy bills for having them. Now that does give me a return. Thank you.
Hi I have been using solar pv for 30 years usually e waste until recently but the best panels are 80% inefficient & in the normal way as you pointed out in the sun's heat warmed the ground/people. The inefficiency of solar panels is heat that stops them working & if ground mounted will not heat the ground (the ground acts as a storage heater & regulates day night temperature)but the solar panels stop the natural ground warming this will increase the difference between day/night temperature but probably not for roof mounted & increase climate change? but still 80% inefficient. Also I have tried wind unfortunately it's too windy where I am & it's destroyed 2 wind generators & I never get answers to questions when i ask like you.
80% inefficient.. crazy isn't it
@@GeoffBuysCars yes o & the solar panels recycling is a EU law and is being repealed by the UK government so more green Cultists creating more pollution than ever.
So silicon semiconducting material is made from silicate or quarts which is almost everywhere you look. Put for silicon you need quarts that is of high enough purity like 99.9% and that is real rare.
A way to make this high purity quarts is recrystallizing less pure quartz which is done in supercritical water dissolving quarts in the hottest spot and letting it recrystallize in a colder spot with a seed quartz crystal as starting-point.
So this is too expensive and so they look for the purest natural quarts and that is rare and just slightly less expensive.
Then you mix the ground quarts powder with pure magnesium and heat it to ignition to produce silicon (99.8%) then starts the re-crystallization of silicon itself and this is done at about 1600 centigrade ~ 3000 F but only in a 6" or 8" and some 2'-3 ' long solid is kept just below its melting-point except in one zone and top and bottom are fixed but the molten zone is slowly transported downward by an induction-coil radio frequent heating in this zone so at the top it cools and re-crystalizes. Every time you gain a factor of 1000 in purity and all impurity is caught in the below end. So it could easy take a week of constant heating and keeping the environment just bellow melting-point. For a serious semiconductor you need 1 in 10 with 16 more zero's so the remelting is at least repeated 5 times or else the efficiency sucks. And you cannot have any air around so usually they use Argon gas (1% in air)
This technique is known as zone melt purification. So this is why we let china handle it, they have cheap reliable coal fired electric power.
The "Green Revolution" is a very different thing if you are an over-fed billionaire living on the shores of lake Geneva, versus a Chinese peasant in a shanty town outside Shanghai.
Exactly. Your very own personal apocolypse.
It is pronounced "wejers"
Glad to help.
God bless you for your channel.
Great article that. Proper journalism!
Thanks Dan, credit shouldnt go to me, I just explained it and added some context :-)
@@GeoffBuysCars Compliments always to the chef mate haha
I am seeing more and more articles about Insurance Companies refusing to insure houses with solar panels.
...also the amount of heat that needs to be generated to process the materials to manufacture ONE solar panel requires ONE TON of coal!
I didn't know it was 1 ton to 1 panel!
@@GeoffBuysCars Actually it's more than that. I was being very conservative. If i told you the real amount you'd NEVER believe me!
If you "G---le it", you will find it takes 4 tonnes of coal PER panel (in China)
I remember when solar panels were first mooted. We were going to manufacture them in Britain and it was going to create an abundance of new "green" jobs that would cut the high unemployment of the time. Well the jobs never happened but the high unemployment seems to have gone away by itself,as now we don't have enough workers,they say.
Another point you should mention is solar farms where they are installed all over fields
Yeah that's another big bad wolf isn't it.
What is bad about solar farms regarding the fields?
@@hempmaiden Everything, pretty much.
India has tried installing them over irrigation canals instead. This works better as the shade helps reduce evaporation, and the panels aren't cutting into the crop area. You needs suitable canals of course!
Yes, I weep when I see beautiful arable land covered in panels. This, along with the government encouraging farmers to retire and rewild WILL in the foreseeable future, cause famin here and all over the world. Add to this what pootin is doing and it ain't looking good! Madness!!
The sad thing is Geoff, options are
Not what they seem. Heat pump tech
Is total crap, solar panels, ev's just end
Up a pile a shit, that nobody wants to
Deal with. Great work guys, great work.
Yeah... but... a great new technology that 'will change everything' is always just around the corner....
Much like the EV scam, also there’s a lot of issues where wild birds fly into them thinking it’s water and the poor things subsequently die, come across this a lot over the years since near where i live where there’s fields and fields of solar farms.
Yes, absolutely, that's kinda another video in it's self, might do that one, with windmills.. don't they kill lots of eagles or something?!
@@GeoffBuysCars had various birds / birds of prey And even Swans 🦢 all kept quiet that it’s been happening.
12 or 14-years ago the magazine New Scientist wrote a report about solar panels. While government want us all to fit solar panels on our houses, there is a problem! In spite of what companies say about what a solar panel can produce, output drops considerably on properties facing east west. Compared to properties facing north south.
And now its no secret of the environment cost and problems in both making them and scrapping them. So with this in mind, how does this fit within governments net zero targets?
The thing to do with old solar panels is to keep on using them. Solar panels are usually rated for 80% original capacity at year 20, and can be continuously be used until they suffer a physical fault. They are not a product that has a fixed maximum life(like batteries), if you look after them they will last. They are modular, so swap them out one at a time if you need to.
Most of the solar panel's environmental problems can be averaged out to be very small carbon/emissions because the likely lifetime of solar panels is much longer than the alternatives. Currently solar is definitely one of the better/best choices for those that have enough sunlight.
Completely agree and not something I mentioned but I should have… why dispose of them at all…?!
So pointless in cloudy Britain then.
@@user-zz9gn2dc3l Not really. Even on a cloudy day, mine will produce enough to cover the house base load of around 300Wh to 400Wh from about 9am to 4pm.
@@user-zz9gn2dc3l The way the British weather structure is; anything East, South East, South and some South West areas from the Penines should be decent enough sunlight areas. That covers a sizeable portion of the population that can possibly have viable sunlight as it includes the heavily populated capital, London. The Penines usually blocks the worst of the cloud cover coming from the North and Northwest(the weather forecast maps shows this clearly). Generalising like that is not a good way of approaching it as solar occupies a very location specific niche. Someone living on the 'sunny side' of the Penines might well have enough sunlight hours to justify a solar installation.
@@longdang2681 we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Thanks for your comment though.
Apply the same scrutiny to the oil and gas industries.
Anything we do is bad on mass. I bet batteries are just as bad 😒
Be aware that polysilicon is just one type of panel, generally the least efficient ones that are used in solar farms. For home use, where roof space is the limiting factor, monocrystalline solar panels are frequently selected to get the best output from a given space.
Trouble with solar panels is that they take forever to pay back, estimate for me is eleven and a half years assuming I don't use credit to buy them and I don't buy batteries, then they are only useful in late spring, summer and early autumn.
Take a look at the farmers protests in Holland and governments aims around tyhe world to cut food production!
Farming videos coming soon.
Well said
Someone here just had some shiny panels put across her roof. It’s been more or less overcast since (at least a month of it). She showed me her little app which reads out details of what’s being generated - middle of the day showed about 500 watts, don’t turn the kettle on. 😅
😂 i really like the idea of using solar, wind and water to power things but they only work in the right environment, 50w panel wont power 5w on cloudy day its rubbish unless you have loads of sun
@@daddymulk I too love the idea but in practice in the northern hemisphere on a cloudy island solar isn’t great. I used to have a small panel just to keep the battery topped up on a camper van when I wasn’t using it - sometimes it would still go flat…
@@daddymulk water is the best of the 3 as it never stops.
I have a little camping solar panel that'll charge my phone really well... when we're in Portugal in the summer in the middle of the day...
I don't believe that any silicon based solar PV panel will ever produce enough 'clean' energy to offset the CO2 during manufacture. Most 'auditors' only focus on the energy consumption of the 2000 degree C furnaces required to refine the silicon. However, the raw material is Silicon Dioxide (Quartz) and the first of multiple steps in refining Quartz extracts the two oxygen molecules to combine it with a carbon molecule using a Carbon arc furnace. This CREATES tons of CO2 that doesn't factor into anyone's calculations.
Refining silicon for solar PV often has to go through more stages to create a higher purity level of silicon. Additional stages require more energy for diminishing returns, but still creates more CO2 from the Quartz. The electronics in 'zero emissions' vehicles requires the highest level of silicon purity for semiconductors.
Solar PV panels are a global environmental time-bomb waiting for Generation Z and subsequent generations to experience.
been onto this for a while wasnt aware how bad it actually is. Nuclear power is the only green energy generation and the safest.
Same, as soon as the report landed in my inbox I thought 'this will be interesting' and by the end of it I was ranting and raving around the house.
@@GeoffBuysCars aha the only thing solar power is good for is them calculators :).
Isn't that submarine nuclear .
@@francesbrown5116 don't know what your referring to but the UK does have a nuclear submarine fleet in Scotland.
This guy cracks me up. And oh 100% true.
Slightly concerning, I believe all mine (32?) are all JA Solar. Goes to show, doesn't matter where you get your energy, someone somewhere has been abused.
A great and very sobering comment.
Bedankt
UK had "Coercive labour" back in the day too - Mills, Coal mines. Then they offshored the dirty work to other countries and shouted "We're green!". Whether Nike or MG or Woolworths - they all use other countries to provide cheap goods so they make more profit. UK imports snow peas from Africa and packaging from China then send both to other countries to combine them into pre-packaged vegetables. Cheaper than doing it in Wales. All about the greed. If your wages had risen as they should, you'd be on 4k a week and could afford panels made properly in Scotland. Oh wait - The 1% took your pay rises and gave you lowest cost at the highest price to cover the theft. I worked for a company who imported shoes at $12 a pair then sold them for $130. Unfettered capitalism.
Please end this Net Zero bullshit !
I would communicate with my father using just thoughts telling him about what I have seen and heard and he would just remind me of him saying he did not want to die from gun shot wounds when I suggested we tell people we could do that and said people are just lazy to use their brains and this thing of using other people just proves that, I can tell you about what I heard about today because I am more like knowing you now that I know your name but let me do what he asked me and not put you through this by trying to talk to the people I love who will not talk to anyone about what I talk to them about hoping one day I will talk to people like you freely without having to worry
With the little power they produce and the manufacture of same, how were they ever deemed viable? Another grift.
Got a small local company to fit 18kw of panels on the factory roof. We are based in Lancashire and even here we make enough electric to run the factory and we are currently £800 in credit. Breakeven point at this rate is 2 years. Given that they are guaranteed for 25years and can last far longer I think they are a good part of the mix. HOWEVER why on earth do we need fields full of them when we have tons of massive industrial units with useable roofs ?
We should start calling them red companies for all the blood spilled 🤔
I like this idea. Like you know how food now has a warning label showing how much salt etc is in it? That'd work.
@@GeoffBuysCars yeah the traffic light system on food, all companies should have have a red yellow green... We would literally be seeing red 🤣
Well this guy's not biased :D The wordl's a complicated, messy place. You've got to start somewhere though and hopefully the problems will be ironed out later on. Using solar energy, the oldest energy there is, is still the right way to go even if the technology is not there yet.
there is no such thing as "green energy",
Great vid but just had to comment on the book shelf ?? It has been noted that most folk that do vids etc on T.V. or being interviewed etc have always always a selection of books on book shelves behind them "making them look inteligent" I gues? I just love you take on it! Books on a hamper Well done Geoff for not letting the side down L.O.L.......
Thank you Geoff, very detailed summation 👍 I like your question “who asked for this?” & suggesting calling the local Council, ironically they are the corporate bodies which will be enforcing these renewable measures on the residents,see citizens assemblies (new lobby) on Climate change Oxford Council outcomes reports -I must disagree slightly on the apocalyptic comment, it’s just dressed differently in the West. 👍
You are 🧠💪 clever young man but we can only stop it to a point 🤮 sending good thoughts 🎼🙋♂️ Nathan
I have had 15 panels for 7 years.In summer they are great,in winter useless.I get a feed in small feed in tariff,but primarily it can run the house and charge the EV.As far as environmental impact how about the oil spill in Poole harbour? As far as rate metals did you know that cobalt is used to refine petrol?