The Decline of Hobby Electronics?
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- Last weeks episode is here: • The Changing Face of H...
In this weeks episode, we ask the question, has there been a decline in hobby electronics since the 1970's & 80's? For the participants, it was hard to differentiate between hobby & industrial electronics and the definition between the two practices is blurred. Keep in mind that most of these interviews took place from 2011 onwards so many opinions I'm sure will have changed over time. At the time, when asked why there was a decline many stated that it wasn't really a decline but rather a shift or change within the industry. Manufacturing of consumer goods in Australia has stopped, putting many suppliers of components out of business. Those that remain feel it's shrinking state, even today. They mention globalisation, the shift overseas for manufacturing, a change in technology that creates a divergence between the kinds of parts hobbyists use and that used by industry. Hobbyists still use the same kinds of parts used in TV's and other consumer goods of the 1970's while current industry has seen a massive shift towards miniaturisation and now use surface mounted parts almost exclusively. These "SMD's" are placed on boards by robots and are tough for human hands to use, let alone a complete beginner. Some participants say it is very important for hobbyists to learn how to solder SMD's and that in fact, with the right knowledge, it is very achievable. Many components today are only made in SMD form and either require the hobbyist to learn how to deal with them or rely on retailers to make "modules" which convert them into a standard through hole form, more easily used by hobbyists on breadboards.
However the perceived decline in electronics isn't just blamed on miniaturisation but also because of the advent of microcontrollers, field programmable gate arrays (FPGA's), programmable logic devices (PLD’s), large scale integrated chips (LSI’s). These single chip devices do away with the need for many other components typically used in the 1970’s since they combine many of the traditional external components within the same die. Serial interfaces like UART, I2C and SPI as well as special functions like Memory, PWM and ADC’s are now often supplied in the one chip, making it possible to make a product with a huge amount of configurability and ability, with very few external parts. With limited “discrete” components required, component suppliers have felt the downturn in component demand. If the components were to “dry up” in Australia, the question is, would new people overcome all the hardship, slow delivery, high cost to even take up the practice of electronics as a hobby in the future? This is probably not unique to Australia and many people around the globe probably are in a very similar position. Please feel free to join the conversation and leave your comments below.
In next weeks episode, we pose a new question. Is Complexity and Integration a major barrier to entry into the art and science of electronics?
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Here it is 2020 and I've got my lab put together over the last 2 years, restarting a hobby I loved and left 40 years ago.
Same here, Lol, probably about the same age as well :)
Sorry for the idiotic question, but what do you do with hobby electronics? Just repair things?
@@knpstrr It's more than that, learning to understand basic natural forces and the geniuses who manipulate them to do amazing things, such as this wondrous device we are using to communicate.
@@Travis141123 How would you recommend one get started? Everything I look up for beginners seems to point to getting an Arduino. But just hooking things up to an Arduino doesn't sound that exciting on the surface (though I may be wrong).
They used to have places called libraries, you could borrow books there. Not a great selection, but the basics.
I've been doing electronics over 60 years. When I was a kid I collected TV's and radios people threw out. I then went to work in a TV/radio repair shop and fixed the first transistor radios the older guys in the shop couldn't fix. I built Heathkits, Dynakits and every other kit I could get my hands on. I built my first stereo when I was 13 out of old tube radios.
I worked electronics in the US Navy on the first military computers. 20 years ago I was building thru hole boards, making my own PCBs in my basement. I got a degree in electronics and kept growing with it.
Now at 75 I do uC's and almost all SMD. You can do it expensively but you can also do it on the cheap. Dave Jones is right, uC's changed everything. Watch Dave's channel, he is a great teacher and he know electronics. Start slowly and find the electronics niche that fits you ,electronics is a vast science. You can't learn it all but you can learn enough to build great stuff and have lots of fun! It's a great hobby but you get out what you put into it.
China is great! I get all kinds of boards and components from them. Old parts sellers either change to meet new demands or they die. I get PCBs from China cheaper than I ever got them in the US. So cheap that it almost doesn't pay to make my own anymore excepting for small short run boards. Yes, the electronics world changed but it's technology, learn how to change and grow with it. Does anyone expect it to be the same as it was 50 years ago? Nothing's the same as it was 50 years ago!
Same as you. I started electronics when i was 10, i was collecting broken electronics, radios, TV's and more. Open them up take up all the components and learn about them. When i was 12, i build my first FM transmitter (with some help of my uncle) and few months later i build my first Audio amplifier, the audio wasn't that great but i was happy that i managed to make something out of broken electronics. Now i'm 21 im still learning about electronics.
As a kid back then, i wasn't able to go to some electronic store or go online shopping and buy the components i need for something i want to fix or make.
I never learned anything about vacuum tubes i have few of them from old radios, TV's but i dont know how they work, how to power them or how they work.
@@fredymredy Vacuum tubes are pretty easy, they're voltage controlled as opposed to current like some transistors. I write for AudioXpress and have had a couple of tube amps in the magazine over the years,a lot of fun to play with as long as you don't go nuts like some audiophiles. Wait, all audiophiles go nuts!
It's not declining. China just change the rules how electronic components reached out to end users and of course control the direct trading cutting the profit hunger distribution system that burden buyer.
@@albertomarsamolojr.2842 China is not beating companies like AD and TI, they still make the chips. I still buy from US distributers especially when I need to know my parts aren't counterfeit.
I'm a software engineer. We make virtual things with software. After a while you want to make something that you can hold and interact with physically. Arduino is a natural stepping stone.
But I really wish I would have watched my Dad build the Heathkit tv sets back in the 70's or 80's. I was too young back then. Those kits had thousands of parts. He built more than one and he helped others get theirs finished when they got stuck.
After I built my first computer I told my dad about it. He asked if I had to do any soldering. What I did was not what he did. Of course I just plugged boards into sockets.
I want to design circuits that do something but I, of course, want to build something amazing. I have lots of books. None of them say how to design circuits. They talk theory and explain the components. I guess I need to take the time to tinker.
It's so easy to tinker with software -- writing code. You build your own universe, your own rules, and your virtual components. If it breaks, you say all the same swear words, but your house doesn't burn down.
It's important that there are hobbyists out there that can work with discreet components. We can't let it become magic and leave it up to corporations to save the day.
I am 13 years old and happy to say I love electronics! I have my own workbench in my room complete with a 40w soldering iron, loads of wire, 3 raspberry pi's. and some components c:
That is brilliant. Good on you! Teach others, it will reinforce what you learn.Thanks for your comment :-)
I'm also 13 and love this aswell, have spent over a grand on parts and am currently designing my own lab bench power supply
www.raspberrypi.org/magpi-issues
It is actually a great time for electronics experimenters. One needs to decide just how detailed you are going to get with microprocessors. As a Pi person you are using languages rather than "machine code" or C++ and those who use the later can create things that are not available anywhere else. That said, the languages used with a Pi can be very useful. I was reading about a new one, Python I think , comes with rave reviews.
That said, electronics is the other part of the picture. Try to be both a programmer and equally into electronics. I spend a lot of time looking for modules (shields) and little boards which do tricky things. I'm really into development of remote control. I want to know , for instance, when someone puts mail into my mailbox and or removes it or opens the box. And many more things. Ham radio is a great help with many helpers available world wide in Electronics ect. . Get your license as soon as possible, get all of your licensing out of the way now while your young (YOU ONLY DO IT ONCE IN A LIFETIME unlike your drivers license which you will do over and over again !)
Good to meet you. Virtually . N6GRG Extra Class
4 years on out, it would be neat to hear if you've gone deeper in this area? I'd have loved to have started with electronics at such a young age, but learning is a lifelong process, the best time to learn something new is right now!
I've been hand-building projects for 40+ years and I found some things in the video very misleading. For one thing, it doesn't matter that walk-in stores selling pin-thru-hole (PTH) components have closed. They've closed because we don't need them anymore and stock was overpriced. Anyone can order parts across a much wider inventory, for less cost, from online suppliers such as Digikey, Newark, Mouser, Allied Electronics, AliExpress, eBay, and a thousand more. Not only can you still easily get the so-called traditional PTH parts and materials, but almost all suppliers now also sell all of the surface mount devices (SMD) in tubes or cut-tape and they are very cheap. The video showing the kid soldering with with a huge blackened tip was cringe-worthy at best and whoever set up that shot should be ashamed. Cooking PCBs in a toaster-oven is also completely unnecessary and the video didn't even mention the other hardships that go along with soldering things that way, but I won't get into those now. I've been soldering surface mount technology (SMT) components onto PCBs completely by hand for over 25 years and it is not a feat of magic and my results are as good as any machine assembly, just slower. All you need is to have someone show you the proper technique, starting with using the correct tip size, how to "tin" it and keep it clean, and the correct temperature. It's also important to use the correct flux core and solder wire size for the job. Soldering 0.050" pitch chips and 1206 and 0805 components is a piece of cake. I also can do 0.5mm 4-sided chips flawlessly all day long. I can hand-place and hand-solder over 12000 parts in a 40 hour week. I never use solder-wick either. Don't need to. In the video, the kid was picking up the 1206 size SMT resistor by the terminals when he should have been picking it up by the sides. That just shows how little the creators of the video knew about the content. Working with SMT stuff is cheap and simple and nobody should be made to think that you cannot do it at home. One guy in the video said "you need tweezers and pliers..." like is was some sort of insurmountable difficulty. I just had to laugh. I've been etching hybrid PCBs (meaning using both PTH and SMT on the same PCB) at home forever. The more SMD's you use, the fewer holes you have to drill, the less leads you have to bend and put through holes, the less leads you have to clip, and the less times you have to flip the PCB during assembly. I've rambled on too long, sorry, but after seeing this video, I just had to speak up. I appreciate that Dave Jones participated but this video would have benefited enormously if he had been in it a lot more so that he could have fixed the problems I mentioned and made the content more positive rather than conveying the message that hobbyists today are basically screwed. Fortunately, you can visit Dave's channel eevBlog and see exactly what I'm talking about.
After watching both the video and your comment, I conclude that you are absolutely right. With the proper tools and some time to spend for practicing, one can learn how to work with SMD components in no time. Not to mention, like you said, it can get easier to work with than THT. Thanks for the comment! I'm sure it helped a lot of people who watched this video.
Thank you very much for this comment. I found the video to be very disheartening.
Im about to buy my first soldering station and start my electronics hobby journey
So watching the this video was a real downer
But anyhow, thank you very much for speaking up!
Agree. Started about 40 years ago with Dick Smith kit my dad bought. Still have original soldering iron although I now use a nice Weller. It's an unbelievably better world these days. Datasheets readily available with a quick Google search. Awesome tools like KiCad for PCB design. Ridiculously cheap PCB fabrication - upload and wait a week... Online forums for getting help with issues...
@@teikoh5690
Thank you :)
Jameco
Electronics has declined as a hobby. Radio Shack gone...
Actually the interest in all hobbys has declined.
Humans have lost the ability to entertain themselves and must be entertained by Media, etc.
It is true that all hobbies have seen a decline but there are areas re-emerging again. Maybe you can help in some way to start peoples interests?
As we sit and watch RUclips lol
Yeah because books weren't a thing
I've embraced the microcontroller side of it. I love programming and electronics. We don't make transistor radios like our forefathers. We make digital devices capable of fast communication between sensors and interfaces. Every bit of software, hardware and supply chain logistics is at our fingertips. SMD is not a bad thing. You can build your own re-flow oven for cheap and get stencils and solder paste for SMD. It's not worse, it's just different. I think we need to regain the electronics industry in the US, but as a hobbyist, I don't feel limited in the least.
I'm 58 and just getting into it. I wish I had done this at a very early age.
You may be 58 but things really got started with the internet and sharing. I'm 61 and got my degree in '86 So what I am saying you have a lot more sharing of tutorials, circuits, forums to ask questions, on-line learing etc.... It's a great time to get into electronics and programming.
You are never too old to learn electronics!
My wife got mad all the time because I salvaged a lot of circuit boards,I knew this was coming!!.
When i need a component i just go to my boxes and bingo!!!
Keep doing it. Electronics is lots of fun. Your wife should be thankful you don't salvage car parts!
I love car parts those wind shield motor basically any motor and the radio and electronics
I'm a simple man, I see Dave Jones on the thumbnail, I click on the video.
One of the areas I noticed a huge change over the past several decades is that the general public is now paranoid and terrified of hobby electronics. Nowadays, if you take one of your builds out in the public, you really need to keep it hidden because there WILL be people who will think that it's a bomb, almost guaranteed. People are terrified of seeing naked circuit boards or wires, regardless of what they are. I'm an electronic musician and I build home made experimental synths and also use circuit bent instruments in my performances and more than once when transporting my equipment, I've gotten hassled by freaked out people or security. Things would probably be worse if I had dark skin and a beard, but yeah. People are genuinely terrified of home brew electronics now.
As decades went by, electronics got more and more complex, and people getting into it were increasingly made to choose between getting a grip on the basics (ie transistors, TTL/CMOS logic, radios etc.) or doing cool stuff with microcontrollers and modules communicating over common interfaces like I2C, SPI etc. Wanna build a robot? Of course, who wouldn't! Seems like there's no way of doing it with discrete components, though it can be done if you can accept some limitations and are willing to put time and hard work into it. The problem is, even engineers often can't solder nowadays. Call me outdated, but that was unthinkable in 2000s and earlier.
As an EE for over 25years , I'd have to say that eletronics are booming more than ever. We simply changed our purchasing habits and they cannot be treacked as easily.
Anybody can design PCB using free tools and cheap components from China. So anyone thinking its declining is not seeing the real data.
@@piepang7323 that is only because no one in Australia wants to compete with China. I'd gladly buy my components from Australia!!
Jaycar need to start stocking SMD stuff, 0805 SMD resistors are $10 per 5,000, they could sell strips of 100 for $2, make their money back 10 times.
I'm a hobbiest and prefer working with SMD, if SMD existed without leaded components ever having been a thing no one would complain.
Advantages...
-Only need to deal with one side of a board
-No clipping leads
-More flexible design
-Lots of great SMD gear around (except Jaycar/Altronics)
-Often cheaper
-Easier to store components
-Easier to ID resistors
-Drag soldering IC's is really easy - don't say you can't do it, give it a fair go with some cheap IC's and eBay adaptor boards!
Disadvantages, in all fairness exist
-A minor issue for the vision challenged, need additional optics
-Need a slightly steadier hand
Jaycar/Altronics can't complain about losing business to SMD hobbyists if they're not going to make an effort selling and supporting SMD.
The need to add a Hakko 888 and/or TS100 soldering iron to their range, a small range of SMD MCU's, a small range of SMD resistors, caps and silicone components.
In addition, support that by doing a new 'Short Circuits' book that is all SMD.
Their maggy lamps are good, and in store already, get to it guys!
Thank you for your long and considered comment. All good points
To the title: "yes and no."
I'm getting back into hobbyist electronics after being away for sixteen years. Here are my observations:
1. I cannot go down the street and pick up assorted components or ICs. This is bad.
2. I can buy ICs and components directly from Shenzhen, usually even in lots of under 1000. This is fantastic.
What the people are ACTUALLY talking about isn't a decline, but a shift in component sourcing. And they're absolutely correct (see #2). The only downside here is the waiting. And, of course, if you get a faulty component or IC, the shipping costs are prohibitive, so the consumer marketplace is plunged again into the realm of, "cheap but unknown."
Insofar as PCB/SMDs, I am myself looking at making a reflow oven. I've never used solder paste or worked with SMDs, but there is so much information out there that the hobbyist can now really build one-off or short-run PCB-and-SMD-hardware. Paired with a 3D printer with an ABS head, the hobbyist is now in a really curious position, the road that I'm starting down: small commercial runs of actual product that can match or exceed the quality of commercial vendors.
In sum: the title of this video is utterly wrong. They're not talking about the decline of hobby electronics at all, but its mutation into something different than in the 1970s and 1980s.
Hey thank you for your very considered comment ... and by the way I totally agree with you. However the title is a question and not a statement. All your points though are spot on in terms of how I see it also but perhaps what people understood to be the hobby/industry at that time has also shifted ... Its a blurry line on what is hobby and what is industrial electronics as well perhaps??
All of my local radio shacks are still here >:D
As evidenced in this video, when you want to build something now you just get a couple of modules (arduino etc), clip them together, plug in some code and it works. No soldering, no assembly, no drawing out a circuit. It's pretty much all done for you. It has removed the enjoyment and challenge of first sourcing the parts, constructing a PCB and playing around with the unit to make it work exactly as you wanted it to. I think another thing that has seen the decline with hobby electronics is that kids are far more interested in video games and computers than they are in learning to build a crystal radio or novelty LED project like we did in the 70s and 80s. A small PCB that does one not-so-amazing thing just doesn't compare to a large screen with dazzling graphics, sound effects and games which enthrall kids for hours on end.
An arduino isnt tat wonderthing for faster aplications you need still opv etc but it helps making projekts more advanced. Imagging making an amplifier the main circuit would be still completly the same because arduino etc is to slow but you can use it for undervoltage recognation current sensing and satus leds
exactly
Arduino is both.
As a beginner you connect your modules together and copy paste some code together and you're done with something that works quite fast
And advanced makers construct Thier own PCB with the components directly and write 1000+ lines of code and end up with something professional.
I feel this. People ask me why I make devices I can just go out and buy, but they dont understand that I do for the experience and for the fun.
My teachers always told me, find your area where you find meaning in happiness in challenges and the knowledge that every day you learn something new.
I also see it as a unique personal selling point. With the older generation who grew up with an ingrained understanding of the circuits now retire or die in western Europe, being a 27 yo Electronics hobbyist and computer engineer, it will 5-10 years from now pay of.
Or in the least I will teach the next generation to understand the tech they use every day.
I have grown up being different, my peers not understanding me or what I do I've come to realize is usually a sign of health in a broken world.
We are spoiled in the west, I am among the most spoiled.
But between golfing and electronics, which has even the slightest hope to change the future?
But I guess in the end it comes down to engineeeing not being considered a valid hobby the same way as arts is.
Even though it is a art, and craft
@@davidcarlsson1396 yes. I love electronics and think it's an artform too. Im a computer engineering student, so I want to specialise in electronics as it relates to computers and digital systems. I find that field challenges me, and it's also great to do as a hobby because designing unique devices to be used with computers is a lot of fun and practical.
Im actually in the process of creating a radio circuit to be used with my commodore 64's user port. I'll have to code the drivers as well, which I'll do in 6502 assembly. If you haven't already, you should try tinkering with those old computers because their ports are very simple to understand so it's easier to create your own electronics for them
The analogy I like to use is that it is like someone who enjoys cooking.
You can always just buy ready made food from a store or go to a restaurant, but some people derive pleasure from the cooking process itself.
I think most people can relate to this. Even if they don't personally enjoy cooking, they probably know someone who does.
The components are still available. You just have to get them from Farnell or Mouser or suchlike rather than "Dave's" on the high street. I learned electronics as a young teenager back in the late 70s/early 80s using a breadboard and dip opamps, resistors etc. These are still very much available and probably much cheaper than they were back then. What we have now but didn't have 40 years ago are affordable bench PSUs, oscilloscopes, sig gens etc. We now also have free PCB CAD software (KiCad) and ridiculously cheap PCB manufacturers, admittedly all in China but hey. I built a guitar distortion unit in 1978 on a PCB I made myself using my mother's nail varnish as the etch resistant! It still works today. I suspect "hobby electronics" as we knew it may be in decline mainly due to Arduino and Raspberry Pi. Why bother learning how to design and build a discrete circuit when you can bash it out in ten lines of mostly prewritten library code on an Arduino?
51 years ago I was into valve amplifiers. I had a break of over 40 years but now I'm back. Good grief, things have changed, it's taken a year to get to grips with the simplest of 'gubbins'. It's just as much fun as it was, how well I resurrected the smell of burning skin when I picked up the soldering iron by the wrong end. One good thing though, I won't be getting the odd 410 V belt. From EL34's to 2N3055, yes I know they are old but they were a dream 50 years ago. Everything is so cheap these days. I guess one old wrinkly returns to the fold.
Haha very nice. Good luck and thanks for your comment!
You never lose it. I started as a kid in electronics back in the 70s and I'm still doing it now (both as a career and a hobby). I'm still using EL34 and 2N3055! The nice thing about it is we can still play with the toys and components from back then!
The EEVblog guy! :) He makes great videos. He is one of the 4 RUclips people who inspired me to buy components and start learning to build things. I bought some SMD NPN N2222a transistors and accidentally dropped one on a brown texture colored carpet. Needless to say, even looking for it with a flashlight, it has now become a part of the carpet. They are so tiny, I am thinking about putting one on something, like a key or a card, just for fun, since they only cost me 1-2 cents each. I still struggle to make good soldering of everything I attempt, so I will continue to practice. The reasons I want to have this skill, is because I know some computer programming and by being able to build electronics, it would enable me to create even more amazing things. I want to create a really cool flashlight with a joule thief, a 555 timer + variable resistor, different colored LEDs and be powered by a D cell battery (or batteries in parallel). I also bought an Arduino and Digispark and want to create a box that when I open it, will have an indication that it was opened either within a certain timeframe or day of the week. Hong Kong and China ebay, sorted by "buy it now, cheapest price" and including the phrase "pcs" for pieces is a great way to find cheap components in the 10,20,50,100 range. Be careful to not pay $0.74 for 1-10 if you can get 100 for $0.99 to $1.50.
It seems that the older you get, the weaker your eyesight becomes and the more your hands start to tremble, the harder it becomes to mount and solder those damn tiny components that just KEEP getting smaller and smaller!! AND let's not even bring up adding arthritic hands to the mix. Still, it is one of the most satisfying and rewarding hobbies there is. The home study course that I took from the now defunct NRI school back in the 90's was one of the best and most rewarding learning experiences I ever had. Not only did you get great learning manuals, but they also gave you tons of parts, discovery labs, oscilloscope, computer, etc. to really learn and understand what you were doing. Now these at home study courses only want to send you manuals and make you learn everything online with simulators. You have to learn by actually DOING. Manuals and simulators will only get you so far. You need to get "in there" and burn out so stuff...maybe create some smoke, but hopefully not electrocute yourself in the process. Lol!!
Coding simplified it a lot. What took a specialised circuit before can now be done with a few lines of code.
I believe their is an issue.. more people are into micro controllers and dont know basic circuitry.. they skip right into codding
You are correct sir...Ask most of them about Ohm's law, and they ask you, "What channel is that on!"
Not sure if this statement is mostly true. As soon as you want to power a load, you will be interested in ohm's law.
Decline? If anything, it's the pure opposite! Parts are so cheap these days and there's so many schematics and datasheets on the internet, there has never been more electronics hobbyists!
If anything I see more hobby electronics now than before, well maybe just replace gadget with electronics. LED's certainly have made many people get into DIY stuff. I guess the difference in the mainstream though is that instead of base components a lot of places like radioshack (at least in my country) sell things that are partially made, so you just have to build it and it's done.
Similar to how we say you build a computer, you buy the CPU, motherboard, monitor, mouse, keyboard, hard drive, ram, graphics card, power supply, cooler and case and put them all together.
As barely anyone has enough time or knowledge to sit down and make their own motherboard and graphics card from scratch as it took companies decades to get as far as they have now.
The reason basic electronics in the past was more popular was because things were more simple, today most circuitry is rather complex that it's nearly impossible to build it yourself from scratch.
A good analogy is this, who wants to be on a computer learning machine code when the guy next door is working with an actual programming language like C++ and making new and innovative things. There is no use re inventing the wheel.
Because even your generation was using pre constructed things where as the generations before yours would have had to make some of those by scratch, rinse and repeat over and over again. At one point you couldn't just buy variable resistors, you couldn't buy integrated circuit chips either (at one point they had to make it all manually). So you may not realize it but your generation was using pre constructed things that previous generations had to make manually (it's the same for every generation).
For future generations things will become more pre constructed again and again and they won't think about the problems and things we do now in DIY electronics, they will have pre constructed things where they are working on more innovative things and have different problems. That's the nature of progress, building upon other things.
When I was younger, around 7, I learned to solder through hole components. Later on, I learned smd, and I transitioned without a problem, as I had time. Today, kids are thrown into working with parts that require more equipment and technique than required when I was growing up. Special tips, not just one trusty 20 watt do-it-all, its a whole different way due to component size.I'd hate to see the hobbyist scene disappear.
I started learning about electronics only 2 years ago. Certainly starting out with modules and arduinos, it was great to see something become real so fast with such little actual EE knowledge. But it only made me crave more. Getting myself op amps, 555s, figuring out how to make boost converters and step down circuits. Understanding how inductance plays a roll in designs.
I can completely understand how the game has changed, but curiosity of the mind will lead tinker'ers forward in figuring out what the electronic world is based around.
Surface mount components are a heck of a beast, but luckily everything still exists in the through-hole world. Just a matter of designing the package well enough for larger components. I see no problem with this for a prototype circuit. Get a kickstarter up and running, and find a company to produce a surface mount oriented product for consumers.
Maybe I'm more of a glass half full kinda guy on this topic; with market demand, there will be better products for hobbiests to work with surface mount.
Something about these advancements, I enjoy it all, allowing me to mix all mediums of DIY together to make cool projects in my free time, to the point of making some money on the side creating things for people. Its just not the heyday anymore. I see this as the coming of age for artists to branch away from digital screens.
Thanks for your thoughts. Great comment
It's funny how they mentioned the rural electronics enthusiast. Thats kind of how I got into electronics when I was a kid.
I got my first parts from a local repair store in a small Otago town in New Zealand. They didn't have much, but I then found out Dick Smith sent parts and kits etc via email. Not being well off I couldn't afford much, but I learned a great deal.
I eventually joined the RNZAF and got training as an Avionics Technician and this gave me a very solid grounding in electronics and engeneering.
I have left the military many years ago and moved on to other things, I actually work now with a company that produces it's own hardware on site - very good electronic hardware, used internationally too! - most of which is surface mount and automated.
I still have a large stash of electronics components in boxes and drawers about the house, but seldom dive into them as I don't have time, but I see the benifit of the continuation of the hobbist and children having access to the components.
I was dumbfounded when I went into a Dick Smith store a few years ago and couldn't find the components any more, and recently seeing the shutting down of the Dick Smith franchise completely was a sad sight. Although I am very happy to see Jaycar doing well in trade.
I recently had a 14 year old across the road come to me for advice on electronics, I hope this continues world wide, or electronics is going to become a dark and forgotten art to hobbyists.
+Paul McKay Great comment and thank you. I think many people will be able to relate to your experience. Cheers
I agree with Dave. Electronics is not disappearing ... it's just changing. Unlike many other old people, electronics is a relatively new hobby for me. So, working with microcontrollers and SMD components seems perfectly natural, since I feel no connection to the old ways. In order to work with modern electronics, certain tools are essential, such as: microscopes, solder paste, hot plates, CAD software, affordable digital oscilloscopes and logic analyzers, inexpensive bulk SMD parts, and cheap PCB prototyping services etc. But these are all very accessible ... at least for those willing to learn or change. My eyes are not what they used to be, but I have no issue soldering 0603, 0402 or SSOPs with 0.635mm pin pitch. Anyone who does is probably doing it wrong or not trying hard enough. Those accustomed to the old ways may feel intimidated or left behind, but I seriously doubt young people will have any problem adapting.
What I find most frustrating is that most electronics can be bought for less than what you would have to pay for the components alone. However, there are still areas where it does pay to design and build your own things. One of them is analog modular music synthesizers: They are freakingly expensive but actually quite simple in their design. So if you have the one really expensive component you need - the keyboard itself, which can be salvaged from a scrapped home organ - the rest can be bought for a fraction of the price of a factory made instrument.
Just received today my first starter kit basic electronics. I'm a novice of 53 years old. No background in electronics, but I find it fascinating.
Its never to late to discover the world around you. I'm so happy you have found the fascinating world of electronics!
I started learning electronics about two years ago. Have fun, it is fascinating!
Thanks.
Not only is it never too late, which sounds kinda pessimistic (I know it's a common expression).
The right time is always when you feel like exploring and learning, you are free.
Society focuses too much on starting early or specific age brackets for new endavours. The very most of those are are mental blocks and artifical limits.
You sure right. Thx.
I would say the success of the Arduino and Raspberry Pi ecosystems has brought it back to some extent. I dug out all the hobby electronics from my childhood around 2017, mixing microcontrollers with classical logic ICs.
the hobby might die if the projects sticks to radio transceivers or sound amplifiers.... nowadays electronic hobby consist of robotics/mechatronics and programming since most projects nowadays are exciting like diy cubesats... diy quadcopters with autopilot... diy automated pcb manufacturing... 3D printing... diy rocketry and home automation
For everyone who is into hobby electronics, you should watch this video. Its very good to sum up what has changed over all the time, eventhough im only 16. My dad for example started a long long time ago to make a mixing console, and he never finished it, because a year later they were really cheap to get and there wasnt a need to build one yourself. Also im not living nearby any electronic surplus stores like radioshack, but ive noticed that a lot of stores closed in the US. Nowerdays you just have to order things online, that not bad at all, but if you just need some more wire or a bunch of switches its very annoying. What also annoys me is that way more components are SMD, i hate to solder that. i just love THT components, its so easy to solder, but with smd... the industry changed a lot.
It's sad. I worked in Irvine, Ca tech complex from 70 to 95 with several companies. At times my phone rang off the hook with head hunters. After work, ran home to work one project or another, immersed and consumed. And the books ! two tons at least; National Semi. Motrola, Theta J. I had held dear the notion that anything digital would forever be servile to the mighty power of Analog ! Intel Corp changed that with 4004 mpu. then began days of heavy drinking.
LONG LIVE THE LM741 AND THE 2N2222 ! (and 5% 1/4 watt resistors of course). Nice video, Thnx.
Thank you. Sadly differnet times
Home electronics and all science will eventually be curbed in the name of "counterterrorism"
As a 17 yr old I can remember as a younger kid going to Jaycar or Dick Smith to get components and sometimes even kits but now just buy everything off eBay and all my projects are based on microcontrollers
Different world now but sometimes us old geezers can still win. I retired at 70 but before I left, the company asked me to look at a 3 channel Mosfet power switching device that was driven by a PIC. This was urgent, affecting production, the Mosfets had blown and in so doing took out the PIC that controlled them. The big trouble was, the original designer had left, leaving no circuit or PIC Program! I analyzed what was required from the input data and found that two Quad Nand chips could be wired to do the same. After replacing the underrated blown Fets with some beefier types the power device was working, at least if it ever fails again the engineer will not have to worry about programming a PIC!
The hobbyist has not declined, they only bypass the local stores and purchase directly from China.
fantastic. Your insight has changed the course of history... Just kidding I think there would be more then 200 comments before you!
Totally agree. It did go into decline for a decade or two but the options we have at our disposal now, courtesy of China et al, far eclipse anything we had in decades past.
Couldn't agree more. Thanks for stopping by
totally agree,
my local shop sell me the same component at twice the price of farnell
it sell only usual components and velleman kit(no rigol, no hakko..)
they refuse to order behind their usual provider
so , to do some homemade 2layers+plated hole+solder screen you need to pass by ebay,
to do 4+layer, you order on pcbxxxx.com (wire wraping? nobody know where it go to die :p funny when you know you can make a motherboard for a p200 pro based on fpga>>>>the need of majority of "hobbyist".....)
and when you look at traditional hobyist's job, you'll find it cheaper at your favorite thingy's shop
so?
you continue, but you are not anymore a hobbyist, you'll have the level of a graduate/engineer and make project for something it doesn't exist !!!
not anymore for learn some electronic from shitty 'how to'
you'll watch dave only for pleasure, not for learning, because it's not enough anymore
and the worst, you can't find a job in electronic where you live, cos' they buy /pay a finished project in asia :p
there are no more hobyist, there are only pro who don't/can't work in electronic(!= solder some capacitor on the power supply of your tv or change the touchscreen of your iphone ...)
the new rookie can't grin and bear it
The hobby hasn't declined, the business world has. I used to go to Radio Shack to get parts for projects. In later years if you went to the Shack, forget it. All they were interested in, was selling cell phones and other items no one wanted. Now I have to mail order everything I want or need. Just like Sears, the people in charge have not used available resources to further their sales. CEO's end up with obscene separation packages, which is all they care about. Public beware! (Sorta reminds you of politics)
because of my basic level of electronics knowledge, I have been able to repair a lot of things most people just toss in the garbage. I fix them up, and make a few bucks. It's also sad how fewer people know how to troubleshoot and logically break down a problem.
They don't want to even attempt to try or think of what might be wrong with it. Not even for fun, which in a lot of times in troubleshooting, it is.
This isn't the first time electronics have changed
Look at the electronics of the 1890's and how big, bulky and limited they were
Things become smaller, more efficient, cheaper and more powerful overtime
I'd rather keep the 1980's style of commercial and off the shelf, but DIY will never die
I'm 16 years old in grade 10
I didn't pass in grade 10 because of my electronics hobby
I spend all of my time in making some electronic circuits of my own or rescue old damaged circuits that's how much I love that hobby
Awesome. Just keep going :-) I'm sure you will pick up whatever you failed in due course anyway :-) Thanks for your comment
Keep at it John. I did just the same as you. Academically limited but I was very good at "you feel it" electronics. I got a job as a lowly service engineer fixing pin ball, poker machines but later got into scientific medical & research electronics. It took time but the companies train you and I ended up traveling the world. I enjoyed a good life. I had to do 35-40 trips a year interstate & international to service or train. Hours were long but you are your own man. I did that for 36 years. I think I contributed to the world and helped save lives. I'm retired. Now it's your turn.
Actually i never thought about it this way, altghough i've always felt, that something bad is happening with electronics. The boy from your video reminds me myself from 20 years ago, just instead of visiting neat and reach radio shack, i was visiting all dumpsters on my way from school to home. It was not so easy for me to get components back then (at least in Poland). My grandfather was one geat radioamateur! He really knew, how analog electronics worked (and it was not his profession!). He was reparing lamp TVs himself, he was building amplifiers, upgrading old, lamp radios - and everyting with the knowledge taken from loads of books he read. He literally remembered characteristics of most of his componets. He was the greatest hobbist i ever knew. Now, when he is not here any more, i left with hundreds of original lamps manufactured back in 60's, 70's and 80's, that I can't even use. Maybe one day i will grow up to this. But in the meantime i make some hobbist-level mictrocontroller-driven stuff and I think that... everything is now so flat.. the knowledge, the attitude. Now you don't really need to reach the bottom of it, the essence of how things work. You just briefly read a specification and the knowledge of how to connect your stuff to microcontrolles is satisfying enough. Because desired effect is so easily and effortlessly available nowadays.
Great perspective thank you. Very interesting to hear people thoughts on this subject from all over the globe. Cheers!
THEY don't want you doing anything yourself.
It's all throw-away today.
People are getting dumber.
Hence Dick Smith & Radio Shack are gone.
But today we have things like Arduino & Raspberry Pi.
So we still have something to play with, if we can get it delivered via mail-order...
UPS has issues finding me & stuff gets stolen...
Use delivery hold
Your comments, Elizabeth, match what I figured out a few years ago. But I take it a step further. Kids are not getting into electronics, but they also are not doing anything that builds individualism or creativity. It is so easy to just click on the radio to get excellent music. Why go to all that trouble to learn to play music yourself? Movies are so excellent, why bother making your own films? Artists can paint beautiful pictures... why bother drawing anything because it is so difficult to out-do THEM? Nobody learns how to read PAPER MAPS anymore because their cellphone or Garmin device can take you to the destination with zero effort! All of these things are like little chunks of our humanity torn away from each of us. The solution is to convince people to do those things anyway.... even if we do them poorly. I draw pictures and paint a little. I do it poorly but my skills slowly are improving. I never could play any musical instrument.... until a couple years ago. Now I mess around with a harmonica. Can't play a song, but I make happy noises and it cheers me up. Our basic humanity is being stolen from us, and most people mistakenly believe we are advancing society every time a new gadget comes out.
I personally really like the current state of hobby electronics. Just a couple decades ago it was nearly impossible to get parts, I'd have to go dumpster diving and take apart old devices to get parts, now, after spending $100 on AliExpress, I have wider range of passive components than my local store. For just $100!
And professional tools are cheaper than ever. Sure, SMTs look scary, but you can get a good enough temperature controlled soldering iron for $50! And a dozen tips for another $10! Need a scope? Not so long ago absolutely unthinkable for any but the most hardcore of hobbyists, now you can get a great scope for $400! Don't have $400? No problem, people are literally giving away old analog scopes for free! Form where I'm standing, thanks to China, hobby electronics is more accessible than ever. Sure, sucks for local businesses, but for the hobbyists themselves it's great.
Yes I agree now, but back then (5 years ago) your answer would have read as bullshit! That's how fast things have changed. Now more then 5 years on, the world is different and I guess thats the lesson learnt right?!
The parts you're buying off Aliexpress are counterfeit bullshit. I hope you know that.
+Paul Frederic Counterfeit resistors? K, mate.
I bought a few kits and an introductory electronics book a couple years ago. I read the book and figured I understood what each component was for. I moved on to the kits and after assembling the first one I'm staring at a schematic and trying to make sense of it. Not because the device didn't work. It did. I just wanted to know how it worked. Why'd they put a capacitor there? It's connected to ground. It's not storing a charge or filtering noise. I was mistaken in thinking a kit would supply more than just parts and a schematic. An oscilloscope would help to visualize what is going on but that's a hell of an investment for someone who doesn't quite know what they're doing. Any youtube personality who would like to produce a walk through on how a given circuit works, I'll ship them the assembled kit sitting on my desk, subscribe, click the like button, and donate to their patreon.
Richard Bartlett - BigClive
Richard Bartlett funny, that's EXACTLY how I feel and it's infuriating. I really wish I understood more of HOW stuff works
That same curiosity is exactly what drove me to become and Electrical Engineer in Computer design. I loved learning how electronics and computers work. I'm retired now, but it was a great career for me and I made very good money doing it too. It was like getting well paid for doing my hobby!
Wayne Ashby good times hey?
I started in Electronics as a hobby when I was 13 years old, I'm 47 now, turning 48 in August, back when I first started my dad bought me a Dick Smith Funway Into Electronics box set for Christmas, which I thought was pretty cool, I learnt quite a fair bit from it, some family friends worked as electronics techs and they would give me some defunct TV chassis which I used as a source of spare parts, I eventually got to the point where I was able to assemble complete circuits on Perfboard, they were mostly FM wireless bugs, later on when I was able to get on the internet I would go looking for interesting circuits to build, mostly guitar effects because I was getting into playing electric guitar, I built quite a few guitar effects pedals, some used an interesting component called a Thermionic valve, after that I got interested in building valve circuits and eventually built a fully working valve guitar amplifier, it's been a great ride since I first started and I have learnt quite a lot in the process, I've also collected a few pieces of test equipment too, personally I don't think that Hobby Electronics is declining, it's actually changing as the technology changes, I think that hobby electronics is going to be around for as long as there's a need to build electronic devices and circuits, I'm mostly interested in audio/music related electronics nowadays and I'd have to say that I'm more of a traditionalist since I don't really have the fine-coordination skills to work with SMD components.
I was lucky to catch the tail end of the vacuum tube era when, for an interested kid, grabbing a discarded TV chassis from the trash behind a TV repair shop was a great start toward accumulating parts. Here in the States, the Allied Electronics and Newark Electronics catalogs were essential reading for interested young men. But back then, electronics was still considered cutting edge, landing on the Moon was becoming a reality, and such imaginative young men saw very real possibilities lying ahead.
Today, is it really a change in the technology or more in the attitudes of youngsters who now, quite reasonably, see the latest electronic miracles as ho-hum, and not really anything special? (By way of analogy, who, for example, really gets excited about the latest innovations in kitchen faucets or refrigerator technology?)
There is a difference, however, between creating innovative circuits on the one hand, and building them in large scale and at lowest possible cost on the other. No individual experimenter is going to beat the professionals at the latter. However, I'd like to think that individual innovators and experimenters, using discrete components that you can actually see and handle, might still pioneer new technologies and develop new techniques before the commercial boys do, who see money, rather than possibility, as the primary goal. But then again, maybe I'm dreaming.
You made a great comment -- several parallels with my own experiences. I traveled to the UK a few years ago and heard an interesting (Read: Hilarious for me) comment. The interviewer was trying get young people interested in engineering. Their reply was: "Engineering? Don't I have to get dirty to do that?" They had no clue.
In the 70's/80's I worked repairing electronic test equipment and pursued hobby electronics at home, building many projects, both analogue and digital, including making my own double-sided PCBs. Back then, I used a Tek 585A with Type 82 plug-in as my room heater... a fabulous piece of kit.
I quit the industry when multi-layer boards meant that a repair involved only a board-swap, since they could not be reliably fixed, even if only a single, identified component had failed.
I quit the hobby when it became more economically 'sensible' to buy a ready-made module than to make my own. All of the fun just got sucked out of it, somehow.
Having said that, I can look back at the enjoyment I got from making and tweaking my inductive loop metal detector, 100W RMS per channel multi-format quadraphonic system (remember those?), polyphonic music synthesiser, time-division multiplexed bus alarm system..... blah blah... Happy days! ;-)
30 years ago I was doing electronics as a hobby and was starting to look at microcontrollers. I actually bought a Philips development kit, but then my career took off and my exploration into C programming was shelved.
Now that I’m retired I have the time to revisit this via the Arduino environment, and yes, most of my purchases for said modules are online due to the China economy. Sorry Jaycar my old friend!
So while the decline of DIY electronics using discrete components is a fair statement, the C++ coding journey takes its place - for me at least, and yes, it opens up a whole new range of possibilities.
I think it’s important to keep learning throughout our lives, and while fiddling around with SMD is difficult, it’s not impossible (just yet!).
RUclips and the internet generally is a vast resource of information that is just so convenient compared to how I had to learn electronics. It’s all right at our fingertips now and all anyone needs is the curiosity and motivation to help themselves. Go for it!
Mdmchannel I’m not surprised considering the depth of the subject! What kind of projects do you get involved with, and what micros do you prefer - if you don’t mind my curiosity?
I’ve been using PlatformIO to learn C++, mainly on the (non-genuine) Arduino Nano and ESP8266 modules. It’s been challenging but quite rewarding too. From what I’ve seen so far, it doesn’t look like a massive difference between the two languages, but using Atmel Studio or the STMCube SW looks next level to me.
Mdmchannel I used to use Protel to make my own PCBs but these days you can just use free SW and send the files to JLC etc and all the hard work is done - even partial assembly if you want. Seems like there’s plenty to choose from and niche markets to apply your skills. Personally I’m enjoying these toys and have been very satisfied with the cost/benefit ratio. All the best to you and your endeavours.
Mdmchannel you know I think we are living in the golden age of electronics, where we can access a lot of very sophisticated SW and HW for free, or very cheaply, and the tools available are great too.
I bought a TS80 battery powered soldering iron a while ago and it is a gem! It is the size of a pen and has an STM32 uP and OLED display. It’s only 18W but it’s very fast to heat up and it’s surprising how much you can actually do with it. I bought a cheap Makita battery USB adapter and transplanted a QC3.0 pcb into it so I can power the iron using the LiOn battery packs I already own.
I used it the other day to repair a PCB on an outdoor AC condenser unit that had been corroded by ants.
I’m thinking that maybe eventually the SMD devices will get too small to handle unless you have a pick and place machine, but in the mean time I’m going to enjoy myself.
Most hobbyists get their components online. We had a local shop that used to sell them, this store used to have many customers back in the golden days. A couple years ago they closed for good.
You'll find components online for a much cheaper price. When I bought components from the store I mentioned I paid 15 cents per resistor, while online I can get 100 resistors for 1,50 euros.
When I was building a small radio transmitter I needed an obsolete transistor, I found a manufacturer in China who produces these (HGsemi), these are all brand new, no fakes or refurbished crap. I needed a MRF237 instead I decided to use the 2SC1971, I got the 2SC1971 very cheap I paid 1.5EUR per transistor so I got a lot of them. I've tested the transistor and it had a nice output of 6watts. Never had any problem with their products. If I would buy that transistor locally, I would pay nearly between 20-25euros.
The only thing I can't stand is when people let some company etch their PCB's, I mean seriously? Going to wait so long for a prototype board while you can do it yourself? That's the best part of electronics in my opinion, creating your own PCB. You can manufacture professional PCB's home with silkscreen, it involves silkscreening and UV PCB paint. The results look outstanding.
Here check this video: ruclips.net/video/8-WGaAmpfOU/видео.html
The corporations don't want people making their own electronics. This isn't taught or promoted anymore. We're taught to consume. That's all. On the other hand, Arduino is getting people into a diy mindset. Those who really love it and want to pursue it, will learn to do it eventually without Arduino.
I completely agree that analog electronics is declining. Analog is moving into the power electronics niche and probably will stay there for a long time. However, we, hobbyists, are having a golden age because of the rise of microcontrollers. Software is easy - hardware is hard and probably will always be. At the same time, we, hobbyists, are having access to almost any electronic component we fancy. Almost all of the big brands are ready to sell their components to individuals at very competitive prices. Check out TI's or Microchip's online stores. It is a gold mine. Prices of development boards used to be with three zeros at the end. Now I can buy a devboard with a top of the line chip for less than $10. Same goes for tools. A perfectly fine osciloscope costs less than $500, soldering station $100, software development tools - free. I don't know about the others, but I am enjoying the ride while it lasts.
Surface mount components are not all that difficult to work with. I worked several years repairing surface mount PCBs. It requires a steady hand and sometimes a microscope to do, but it is really not that hard. I have been in electronics for over 50 years, so that helps.
Imagine yourself as a kid trying to do electronics. I think smd would be impossible...
@@danijel124 reflow ovens and hot air stations make things amazingly easier. Considering how inexpensive they can be to get, starting out would be plausible.
Based on working in the industry myself (synth company), I'd agree that interest has shifted. People we have hired now may know a thing or two about soldering, but their knowledge is definitely in embedded systems, or computer-related stuff. Despite just a 10 year age spread (I'm 29), the difference is astounding to me. I'm glad I had hi-fi exposure (1970s equipment) and mechanical heavy stuff like VCRs to learn from and take apart or help my uncle fixing when I was little. Often I kinda feel like the odd-man out with more analog and discrete knowledge rather than coding/embedded (terrible at those haha). But hey I'm not gonna let myself get pigeon-holed nor tout any sense of superiority; honestly the "old" ways can be a serious pain in the ass when it comes to finding cross-reference matches or close equivalent parts, mechanical switches and modern replacements... it just goes on forever with the troubles with those aspects of "old school" analog. I say learn a little bit of it all; if you DO learn some code like C or the other ones, you can make some pretty cool stuff now that well... analog can't really do very easily (if at all). But, if you dip that little toe in multiple pools, you're soo much more useful. Analog dudes are on the way out. No joke they are disappearing way faster than them, or their knowledge can be replaced timely anymore. Keeping it alive in any form now is kinda what I'm about. I really look forward to helping some friends do some repair/restoration on a new Fender Twin, and an old 1975 Twin tomorrow.
Thank you for your honest reply. Its a smart approach - learn everything you can :-)
there has been a huge decline in home repair, electronics, radio/TV repair. when I grew up in USA in the 60s 70s we had a electronics course in Jr high/middle school. not today I cant find a electronics course in Jr high or High school anywhere.
When I bought a radio in the 1960 I got a good manual, a schematic and if something broke down I could order spare parts and repair it myself. There was a good repair service. A radio (or other elek. devices) are a value and every efford was made to repair a device if it was economical to do so.
Today you will only get a user manual with a new device.
Devices will not be repaired but replaced. It is very difficult to repair this devices and many repair shops are out of business. Very often it is cheaper to buy a new one.
The old way of thinking is much more gentle and better for our environment.
In my town, the codition is the exact opposite. Homemade speakers, amplifiers, kit, modification is more preferable. -Sorry for my bad eng-
This is why software development is the key. It's not that any electronics hobbyist can't create the components they need. But for example, think of a Raspberry Pi. In order to duplicate everything that little $35 board can do, you would have to fill a room with discreet components and an endless chain of wires. Now, you can focus on making the hardware do something. Changing times but not worse ...
CEO Jaycar, "Arduino fans end up buying everything on the net and bypassing us."
There is a reason to this, Its because you buy the EXACT SAME ITEM but sell it 2-3x the price in your store, yes you have store and wages etc, for one off random purchases its ok but in reality if im doing a project I'll spend $40 + $15 shipping and wait 3 weeks than spend $120 locally, have to get there within business hours, deal with a queue and idiots asking random long winded questions how to do things and watching the sales staff brains imagine going on a rampage because of this.
That being said ive got heaps of stuff from jaycar mainly small number components but if I think I need 10x 555 timers then i'll get them from ebay for 99c instead of $3 each
Yeah, I can understand them charging a markup but what they want more like highway robbery.
I'm just laughing at this uni-polar stepper motor & driver set that they want nearly 10 bucks for and yet the very same thing is available on ali-express for about 2.5 lol
skylinevspec000 100℅ right
I'm into hobby electronics because I'm interested in it. Not to save money. This is a great time for the hobby. So much is available now and you don't need an engineering degree to do so many things. But it does take effort.
I very rarely buy parts. I salvage them from other electronics. By doing that you keep your mind sharp on the desoldering technique.
God damn Jaycar didnt help! The prices of components being raised 400%, making the hobby harder to get into for new people $12 for 1/4W resistors. These companies refused to adapt so Im glad that people are going over them straight to a Chinese source.
Here in India... there are such less places, to buy electronics that it's nearly impossible, to get them, I wished if we had a dedicated shops, sellers who sold electronic components. I have to always savage for diodes, or sensors, cause getting 'em on Amazon, at least a bundle is more expensive than getting a board!
Nice perspective and thanks. Hope things improve though
You can still build electronic devices now....the key to being the electronics hobbyist is keeping up with the times and learning new skills such as learning SMD components and how to solder them...learning to design schematics and PCBs around the SMD components....if anything,the potential for the electronics hobbyist has increased astronomically with the accessibility of online tutorials, DIY 3D printers that can incorporate conductive materials in the designs that work in parallel with computer 3D design programs....the technology we wished we had 20-30 years ago is here now and all we have to do is learn how to utilize it....the possibilities are endless.
Great comment and thank you. In a future episode, I interview people five years on, and the landscape has changed. This video was largely shot in 2011 and its interesting how peoples perceptions change over time. Those who don't know or choose to forget are always living in the moment of today, however back then (and thats only 5 years ago) things were very different for most. I guess this is the distortion created by time. Today things are different as you point out and I'm already editing that new episode as I get the time.
I am 40 years in electronics, I start at 8 years old, but now young people do not like to do electronics.
I don't understand the reason, posibilities are infinite today.
Cheers.
I am a retired electronics technician and hobbyist. I work part time as a substitute teacher in public schools, and just wanted to say that ONE school I work at has a GIANT set of snap-circuits for the grade-school kids to build things with in their school library. SO.... it's not dead yet. Kids are still being enticed into the hobby. More schools should do that.
amazing video. thank you very much for taking the time to make and upload this.
Thank you, much appreciated!
I'm still an analog guy, I like MCU's but analog still gets most of my love.
Same.
Black Fin tbh same
In the US corporations began replacing American EE's with people from India, trading US citizenship for low wages. Today, nobody wants to spend 5-9 years in school just to make low wages, so 3 out of 5 EE's are underemployed. Secondly, smartphones have made traditional products obsolete. A function that used to cost $50 is now a free download.
or a $5/month app littered with ads...
2Awesome root your phone and block all the ads...
The most frustrating and thing I find about electronics nowadays is that everything you buy is meant to be replaced when it goes bad. The electronics inside are so tiny and chip-based that you almost never have a chance to repair them. Also they don't even come with a servicing manual or schematic.
There are some pdf called Datasheets that explains everything aboout the components.
I don't think hobby electronics is declining. It's quite the opposite actually.
Microcontrollers and Arduinos are easier than ever to buy and produce, and this makes more and more people interest in electronics. A more motivated person would soon find difficulties on using Arduino alone and will start to learn more to make more sophisticated projects.
Also, digital electronics allows people in apartments, without a big workshop, to do nice things without a too big component stash. All you need is a couple of basic tools.
Information too. Datasheets are easier than ever to find, components are easier than ever to buy and tutorials are easier than ever to find if you don't know how to do something.
About miniaturization, I see that more as a chance than a threat. Buying and interconnect modules allows you to do things quickly. People have the chance to learn a bit further and learn to develop and integrate those things themselves, in a single, pretty PCB.
I really think this is a great time to be an electronics hobbist. Chances are much diverse than before.
... Microcontrollers can do almost everything... u only have to insert a source of information and code the microcontrollers to use it as u want!
Its not "hobby electronic" its just hobby coding.
Well what are you using the uC for then? Microcontrollers are only good if they actually do something to something.
But soon you realize you can't take apart digital and analog electronics.
Let's imagine for a moment you want to make a humble Arduino project: to control a Servomotor with an analog proximity sensor, connected on a breadboard. Measurements seem to be okay until the servo begins to move. What is happening? Is it the power source? Is it the programming? Or the inductive loads? You need to know about electronics in order to solve your problem.
***** ... isn't the point of a electronic too?... it was supposed to be employed on the statement...
+Las Desventuras de Virus
solving a problem is different from building a electronic from scratch without microcontrollers but yes u still need that knowledge...
Electronics as a hobby has changed. I was into it as a kid and haven't really done anything electronics related for a long time after that. But Arduino is what got me back into electronics 5 years ago. Now I have a full lab with 8 1/2 digit DMMs, spectrum analysers and all kinds of goodies. Internet has replaced the brick and mortar stores. This doesn't mean we aren't ordering components from Digikey, Mouser, Ebay, Aliexpress and the like. The amount of information available online is also amazing for learning about all sorts of electronics topics. Message boards are also a great outlet for sharing knowledge with fellow hobbyists. In some ways I don't think there's ever been a better time to get into electronics. I think the biggest advantage of being into electronics today is the fact that you can get advanced test and measurement equipment for peanuts on second hand markets or thanks to low cost China manufacturing. Even on a budget you can score a 2nd hand oscilloscope, a set of cheap DMMs, 2nd hand function generator and whatever else you need for less than $500. 30 years ago when I was starting out I could have only dreamed of owning a 100Mhz scope.
On the contrary internet shopping gives you access to way more options than any local retail chain ever did. The last time I saw a shop where you could go straight in and buy standard components of the shelf here i Denmark was TWENTY YEARS ago. There might be a few specialist shops around still here, but I bet if you want anything more complicated than a standard resistor or capacitor, they will have to go online and order it themselves, and tell you it will be here in a week or two.
But the microcontroller, cheap kits from China, and just a basic understanding that electronics and computers aren't magic has in my oppinion made the way for the rise of hobby electronics from something just a few weird people did in their shed, to now every one to hack, jailbreak, and upgrade their devices, use them in ways that was never intended by the designer, and generally not accepting that a device can't do a thing, just because the manufacturer says it can't, when you know they hardware is in there. So maybe we aren't building things from the ground up as much anymore, but we sure as hell are tinkering like never before.
I still have germanium transistors from the 60's (OC71) etc. What confuses the hell out of me is that I can make a radio receiver with one transistor - yet modern factory made radios contain hundreds of thousands of transistors. I'm beginning to feel like a steam engineer from the Victorian period...
Greater automation will bring manufacturing 'home,' and it will be even cheaper than China.
And someone will have to know how to fix those machines.
ive gotten into ordering stuff from china a while back and it is such a change to the way I can do my hobby electronics, the ridiculously cheap components are perfect for messing around and as im messing around with stuff i get new idea and experiences. With stuff from china i can easily buy way more stuff then i could ever use; some of the local components i have are often a lot better in quality but when you are just building simple devices for yourself its fantastic to just be able to buy hundreds of components for a few bucks and have them ready, or order a specific item for a project at a bargain price and almost always with free shipping - I take a lot of pleasure in clever design. I started out feeling SMD and Microcontrollers were sort of a dark art but as im designing things i find they are probably much easier and often better solutions (especially making neat, compact devices). Its really not fun making a 7 digit driver or other fairly complex device by hand soldering DIP packages and dozens of connections and wires. Im probably getting some SMD leds, resistors and atmega328 chips soon to mess around with.
I feel those who don't have good previous knowledge of electronics will have very hard time doing it for hobby. Most things are based on micro controllers which take knowledge of programming, other stuff consists of modules and might be pretty extensive. There are applications like doing tricks with light (LED etc), audio and a few more although it isn't in no way comparable to 80's or even 90's. It is also about people's relation to electronics; most use certain device until new comes out even if they don't need them. I'm afraid audio is the last major field where hobby electronics are still fun, without needing to know a lot about it. Programming takes quite some time to learn, it is in no way comparable to simple analog electronics fun.
2 things - A lot of people just want an easy platform such as the Arduino where you can take the board, shields, sensors, pre written libraries and examples and cobble together some projects. Nothing wrong with that it's just not learning about electronics. Secondly, I partly was interested in electronics as there were some major companies where I lived which employed people in electronic engineer jobs, in the 80's and 90's these companies were decimated and jobs moved offshore. A lot of people then don't see the point if there is no career but you will still get hard code electronics folks. Just my thoughts anyway.
Hydrogen and mercury thyratrons, door knob HV capacitors, 18" long xenon flash tubes, x-ray power supply, Spelman HV supplies, 3 meter FM pirate radio exciters, RF amplifiers, homemade transmission line filters, obscure Industrial and Gothic CDs, Classical and Jazz CDs, S&M and black leather toys all lost to storage warriors like pearls before swine.
I hope this documentary will go on tv! Love it!
+Aidan Thank you. I would love it to be seen everywhere :-)
Super interesting channel, here. Great experienced opinions. It's nice to see sit-down interviews like this.
Much of the decline is due to the fact that software development as a hobby has exploded over the past forty years, and the two hobbies appeal to the same sort of person.
It is 2021 and I am currently building a 40 m2 electronic workshop were I will try to repair tools and house holdings. Besides that try to get into some of this HAM radio 😁. It will also be a place to teach my two boys how to handle tools and learn about basic electronics and programming 😊
I used to work at and buy from a surplus company in California called Halted (started by Hal and Ted.
You could buy discreet components as well as surface mount by cutting them off of a reel.
I owned a stereo zoom microscope and a hot air pencil. After a while Radio Shack closed, so did Halted, so did Weird Stuff.
You could buy stuff mail order but you needed a credit card and a paypal account.
I got old. I moved back to Michigan and got COVID, went into a coma and almost woke up dead.
Things have changed. I was at ground zero and didn't realize it. I lost my collection of parts to storage locker laws and storage war mentality.
I would love to continue to invent and make but have lost my spark, not to mention my ability to walk.
I do not know about elsewhere, but the majority of Americans no longer have hobbies, they work 9-5 then stare at the toob all night. I've suggested to some of my non-hobbiest friends that they get a hobby, they look at me like I'm nuts and say " I work all day, why should I come home and work some more?". They do not understand the satisfaction aspects.
SMT are a bugger to desolder for repairing.
0306's can be done, but anything with three legs or more is asking for trouble.
Most of the kids I know play computer games (as oppose of picking up a book) if you considered that as a hobby. Woodworking is still alive, for now. We used to build things because it's cheaper, learning a process and have the satisfaction of doing it. But the Chinese manufacture things much cheaper than if you buy the material alone. No one even bother to fix it for lack of information; remember they used to include an electronic schematic and a mechanical parts list. No more. Yeah, nobody build much anything anymore.
I don't see any problem with it, if the DIY packages are kept available, for the basics at least.
Todays some applications really require SMD packages due to the involved speeds. But starting (saying that very bad and roughly) with a simple RC network, then 555, doing signal processing with opamps, and digital disctete logic, basics of power electronics, then moving toward complex things like microcontrollers, it is a very educational journey for any kid/person who want to enter in the electronics field. I see nowadays a lot of more spread of electronic available to hobbysts - at least is what I perceive.
As an electronic designer, with a dominant part in fw and signal processing, I am always fascinated in see today's electronics as the one in the 80's, despite I am more young that those years.
It's a shame to see really.
To this day, I still like my electronics, but it's still always through hole parts.
Back when I was about 12, I was hand writing PCB designs with an etch resist pen, directly on to copper clad board, and etching them in ferric chloride, drilling and soldering them.
I still have masses of components under the bed, and breadboards and stuff to experiment with when I'm looking for something to do.
But it's not nice to think that kids will never be rummaging through a big, disorganized box of components, for a single value resistor... Scrambling through loose batteries, random capacitors, trimmings of solder, etc.
Now it's all on a plain green and black board... :/
Nice thank you
So today, you can do a lot better with a laser printer. Check YT for a plethora of techniques for DIY PCB's. Thru-hole remains a solid way to go for prototypes.
I am fed up to hear people complaining about SMD technology making it difficult for hobbyists to make and assemble their own circuits. Providing a good enough soldering iron and a bit of practice, it's actually faster and easier to solder a 28 pin SOIC micro-controller on a board than its DIP package counterpart.
I used to make my boards with the whole UV insulation, ferric chloride bath process and then drilling all the vias and pin holes ... while you can pay 20 euros today and get your boards professionally manufactured within a week. And they are much easier when it comes to solder part on. Hobbyists live in great times today.
+marzacdev I agree. I really enjoy soldering. It takes me forever for SOIC but if I am in a hurry, I break out the heat gun and liquid solder. Adapters for bread boards ... lots of fun.
+marzacdev That's good new for me. Just like Randy Gast said, I really enjoy soldering too. It's a hobby where you can take a $100-$200 piece of electronics that has a component that went bad (like capacitors) and replace it for $0.01 to $5.00, rather than throwing it in the trash.
I went back to my electronic hobby and I have been setting up my mini workbench for the last 2 weeks.
I did jump the bandwagon and get a microscope, solder paste dispenser, and hot air station. I struggle with the qfn and bga packages because you need to see underneath them to tell if everything is properly soldered.
As long as I can pick up microcontroller boards/chips and other components in through hole, I'll be happy.... I'm only worried about not being able to source much TH stuff one day, makes me want to stock up a bit now!
I've read all of the comments. Interesting views. In my humble opinion I think one should pursue whatever brings you enjoyment. The field of electronics is always changing and always will. Nothing wrong with through hole components or smt or programming an arduino etc.Key word in the video HOBBY electronics. Have fun and learn something, that's the ticket. It all has to be better than sitting around watching sitcoms. Peace
We have the dexterity just not the precision at the ever shrinking surface mount scale so IMHO what hobbyists need is an affordable manually operated micro-manipulator to bridge the gap between human and machine assembly. If I had the money then would be looking at fitting tweezers to a 3D printer.
For many things, I now actually *prefer surface mount for discretes. Especially on the back of a piece of "Donut Board". Yes they require a steady hand, a fine soldering iron tip, and possibly a magnifying glass, magnifying headset or microsocope. Or you can use a cheap USB microscope to a computer screen, or in many cases, even a smartphone can be a magnifying glass. once you get over the "its too small !" thing they are *heaps faster to solder to the donuts, you can have a tiny box with 50 of every value resistor in it in neat strips. Add in a "Roadrunner Wiring Pencil" and I can make proto's heaps *faster and smaller with less hassle than clipping leads of through holes. OK, Some chips are a bit *too fine pitch. but thats what breakout boards are for. I grew up with through-hole, but have come to prefer SMD. Dont knock it until youve tried it ! :)
+SpockieTech I agree :-) Thanks for your comment
I am not surprised that micro-controller kits have taken over. It just doesn't feel rewarding to design an analog hobbyist project, when the kid next door is working with an amazing arduino quadcopter.
Yes the simplicity of kits from the older days isn't exactly barnstorming peoples imaginations like it might have back in the day. Coming up with kits of today that inspire young minds is definitely an opportunity for someone out there. That could be you? :-)Thanks for your comment.
Making some parts easier doesn't per se stifle imagination, it just makes room for creativity and the application of imagination in new territory and not wasting energy in places you no longer need to waste your energy on.
What's innovative repeatedly doing the same thing others have done a million times.
There is no decline in hobby electronics, YT actually got me back into DIY electronics again 25 years after leaving school. What we have is an advancement in hobby electronics into the modern age.
It's interesting to me that a lot of the people in this video are quite old (don't get me wrong, I'm not a spry chicken either) and the major complaint is that a lot of new hobbyists are using certain classes of prebuilt parts and a lot of microcrontrollers.
This while in fact, you can also find sub 40 aged people on YT itself that have built entire 8-bit computers out of pure electronics components, just like the people in the 70's did at the advent of MSDOS.
You are right, having arduino and other pre-made things actually help imagination into new territory as the kids aren't constantly over the decades learning the same stuff over and over again and never coming up with anything new. It's the same case for a few decades ago vs 100 years ago where it was even more simple. The farther you go back the more basic things had to be made by the individual.
As time goes by the production of these is perfected and they are sold readily and people use them in projects to make new and more advanced ideas.
There is no use wasting time on things that you can just buy pre done and then focus on more innovative things that haven't necessarily been already done millions of times. Just as we don't expect an automotive engineer to know all about the maths and production of producing a perfect car tire, he leaves that up to the other companies and focuses on the more innovative stuff that hasn't been done yet, like hybrid technology, generators in wheels, better security systems etc.
Or another example is a programmer, a programmer making a game or software package doesn't have to learn the base machine code because he doesn't have to worry about that and if anything that would stifle his progress to have to waste time on that as he isn't wanting to reinvent the wheel over and over again, he is wanting to use a programming language to work more effectively and create new ideas.
Exactly my point!!
"This while in fact, you can also find sub 40 aged people " It's not just people sub 40. This thinking about age limits is part of this decline and pessimistic thinking. It's not the case, people start hobbies at all ages, and 40+ is still very young.
I started in amateur rocketry in the 60's by the 70's was building electronics flight instruments for my builds, but it was a nightmare trying to defeat the launch weight problem. But to day you can do about anything with the micro size components... but half the fun was trying to get it as small as you could. Love these videos!
+J Rolf know about launch weight problems RC quadcopter FPV with just 20 grams max payload .
+J Rolf Hey thank you and thanks for your comment. Love model rocketry :-)
Arduino saved hobby electronics
You are correct.
That is correct
Geoff Holden kind of hit the nail on the head there. When I think of projects to work on it's hard not to ignore there are already ready made solutions for what I am attempting to build that really cost less than what I am about to spend. But I will say the knowledge I have been slowly gaining has made me more adept in repairing and modifying things around the house to work better for me.