Lever Action vs Bolt Action Rifles - Season 3 Episode 7
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2023
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! In this episode, I answer listener questions about lever action vs bolt action rifles, 5mm cartridges, ballistic charts, and more.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Just take an 89 Buick like my uncle did. Most of the moose landed in the passenger seat.
after I put in a roll cage around the driver seat.
Which color seems to work best?
😹😹😹
@@johnwurfel2862red it blends better
Benchleg is a Blacktail-Muley hybrid. They tend to be found on the eastern slopes of the Cascades.
One can learn something new every day. Thanks.
It’s a good day when Ron finally gets around to talking about the .33WCF! Chambered in the Winchester 1886 and designed to shoot a 200grn bullet. More than enough for moose at the appropriate range. Basically the cartridge is a necked down 45-70.
Ron, Check out the Henry Longranger, Lever Action. It guarantees sub MOA, mine is a .243 (sweet)
@@ChristopherEDentonI’ll bet that’s a nice rifle. A Henry is on my list for the future. Glad I’m in no rush as they are in short supply right now.
Ron made.a good point that some older cartridges like the 270 and 30-06 operate at the same pressures as more modern ones. Advances in modern propellants allow better performance while maintaining the original max chamber pressures. FWIW, these improvements allowed the shorter-cased 7.62x51 (308 Win) of the 1950's to essentially match the original 1906 performance of the 30-06. Propellant improvements since then have made the performances even better.
The big thing is that you can also use the same new powders in the 30-06 and 270, meaning that the .308 can match the 30-06 of old, but the 30-06 of today is beating it by a good 200 fps or better in some loads, I don’t think you’d argue against that, however I know a lot of people who dote heavily on things like the .308 and 9mm of today always use todays data for the smaller cartridges and the old load data for the superior cartridges and skew the scales a little bit.
Although we call it the 8mm J, it is actually the old gothic script "I" for infantry. The S is the spitzer (sharp-nosed) bullet.
Apparently that error hung on for years!! I think the “i” was originally italicized and misread.
Having to appease the .308 win and 6.5 CM folks is a full-time job. We all know us 7mm-08 fans are the kool kids.😂
Moose are odd creatures. They can be drt with 243, 6mm or 6.5mm or they can soak up five rounds from a 300 win mag with all being good shots. Had one in camp do just that, and a moose that should of been dead went almost 2 miles through the worst terrain. 35 years ago I had that same hunt, I dropped my bull at around 275 yrds with a .284 from my Savage model 99. I was going to use my model 99 in 300 savage but the .284 shot a bit better. I never thought I would have to take a long shot as the woods are thick but just like you said I had a shot over some water. I knew this could happen as the year before I had a long shot on a deer on a High Tension Line clearing
A "Bench leg" deer is a cross between the Blacktail and Mule deer, they're found on the western slopes of the Cascade Mtn's.
Eastern
Thank you as always Ron. Lots of good information.
The newers Browning BLR have free floating barrels. 1/2MOA.
thx for talking about magnums. i was a novice and believed in the magnum "knock down" but appreciate you telling us straight, it gives us reach, its the shot plaemnt, bullet placement, and constuction. it gives you the edge at the cost of muzzle blast, cost, and recoil.
That’s awesome Dusty I’m from northern Maine, the moose hunt is an awesome thing to be part of!!!Good luck!!!
Dusty, I hunted Maine Bull Moose in Allagash Maine last year. There are bogs and places the Moose may escape to that will make recovery difficult. Woods are thick and dark. I took a 300wby 2x10x50mm scope180 partition for chance of longer shot around clearcuts or down logging roads. My son had 300win mag 2x10x42mm 168ttsx handloads. My carry rifle was 375ruger 1x6x42mm 250gr cx factory ammo. Outfitter's wife shot her moose with 30-06 168ttsx factory ammo. There is no such thing as overkill. I used shooting sticks to steady the rifle and practiced weekly b4 the hunt. I wrote article on Maine Moose hunting in the winter edition of Illinois Shooter Newspaper last year. Lucky hunter got 60" bull moose 2nd season in the area. Guide guided client to 52" bull moose 1st season. Good luck. Congrats it took me 23yrs to pull tag for zone 1 as non resident.
Totally agree you're not going to find many longshots in the Maine woods maybe if you get out onto a power line or something like that or like you said across a lake
Very interesting Ron, good video!
Thanks again for the info!!
Ron there are very long shots here in Maine, we have many clear cuts that moose like to hang out in
Bench leg deer: Oregon term for deer found in the high Cascades, they are mule deer (westside) that have crossbred with black tail deer(eastside). Typically a bench leg will have mule deer size antlers & body with really short legs, hence the name bench leg deer. FYI
I am from Central Maine and every moose I have seen was under 50 yards I use my grandfather's old 30-30 and I am cofedent hunting everything in the state
I run both. I’ve got a browning blr chambered in 325 wsm and a 35 whelen custom built on a rem 700 action . I’m confident in tight bush with both and I can reach out to 300 yards confidently with both. I love the 325 as it’s got bolt gun reach with lever gun speed . I tend to take the 325 when I’m in tighter bush and the 35 when Ive got more open area. but both work well in either situation . I won’t shoot at game past 350 yards so both chambering are more than adequate for any hunting I do. I’ve shot elk , deer snd bears with both. I’ve never needed a follow up
Bring the 7 PRC. If in doubt bring the shot that’s for sure capable. There’s also a chance that you might be the prey there.
i never thought i would see someone wear my gta online/red dead online custom country outfit, i have an outfit just like this in the games. good to know someone has a sense of fashion.
@5:00, Leave the .32 Spl and .33 WCF to the locals. Bring your 7PRC or a cartridge capable of 1500ftlbs at 400 yards with a bonded, partition, or copper bullet.
hey Ron, I love the education that you're sharing. Thank you & keep up the great work.
ETA stands for an estimated time of arrival. One of your subscribers is waiting for a firearm.
think you had a brain fart 😂 it happens. Go easy n god bless
more importantly, I love Kovey. She's a sweet pup 😊
Two classic lever cartridges.
Incase it hasn't been said a bench leg deer is a hybrid deer of a Mule Deer and Blacktail deer. Typically they are found in the Cascades Mountain range.
The Henry long ranger comes free floated as standard as does the pistol grip version of the BLR. You can also free float the standard BLR by removing the barrel band and removing material for clearance from the foregrip. This is because th handguard is retained by a hanger rod below the barrel rather than the barrel itself. The barrel band is there for looks.
Amen, on the Longranger
I'm from maine and I'm going on a moose hunt too I've shot 3 bulls with my 300wsm using 165 gr. Winchester fail safe 🤠
Good luck on the open country in maine, clearcuts are a thing of the past. I live in Maine and have all my life. Lots of brush and large tracs of forested land
I've used JBM for years and it can give you more than you need. It also has a decent bullet list(b.c.)
Excellent video Ron. Lots of information. Thank you.
You mentioned the 8x57 as a "parent" for many cartridges. I agree and I currently shoot a 30-06 which is based on it. I would like to have a double in 8x57 R. That would be an excellent rifle in the woods. Right now I have a safari express which is a double barrelled black powder rifle and a side by side black powder shotgun. I love the look and feel of a double so an 8x57 would be a great choice. I would retire my 30-06 and whenever I wanted a modern rifle I would take it.
I have a double rifle in 8x57irs. With a 160 grs monolithic bullet at 800 ms or 2624 fps it is a good moose rifle and has mild enough recoil to give a quick follow up shot. Has good effect and ruins very little meat.
I hunted with a guy that bought a 338 lapua so he wouldn't have to track deer. He was a new to deer hunting but thought he was special because he had a couple great bucks under his belt in his short career. The look on his face when his first 338 Lapua buck ran 80+ after the shot was priceless. He didn't understand that bullet construction and shot placement determines if the deer is going to drop more than anything. In my personal experience the 280 Remington and 7 Mag with 140 grain Barnes TTSX bullets has produced the most "dropped in his tracks" deer. I use the 180 grain TTSX at 2900FPS out of my 35 Whelen, and it doesn't seem to put them down like the aforementioned. On the same hunt with the Lapua guy, my buddy dropped a nice 10pt with his 7 mag and Barnes TTSX, and I dropped two does and a big 8 with a 280 Remington and Barnes TTSX. We sure that had that guy's wheels turning, LOL.
Hello Ron. Another great video, as always. I love your content and expertise. I have heard you mention "hydrostatic shock" several times, in several videos. I have been wanting to reply for a while now. Here is a video suggestion where you can demonstrate a simulation of the effect of possible "hydrostatic shock" on an animal in the lungs or a gut shot or thick meat shock. You will need 2 each 5 gallon buckets, with locking lids, or build 2 each 1/4" thick wooden boxes with plastic bags that will fit inside. Next, you will need a big pile of sponges. In one box, pack in the sponges and then fill the bucket / box with water, which simulate the guts or, lets say, the hind quarters where the meat is thick. In the other bucket / box, fill it with damp sponges, which simulate the lungs. Now, using a rifle of your choice, with a high speed bullet, the greater the speed the better. Then shoot each bucket / box, 1 or more times. Note the difference in the "hydrostatic shock" on the 2 different density materials, damp sponges of water soaked sponges. Notice the term "hydro" = water or another fluid, such as blood. Hydrostatic shock is experienced primarily in a liquid medium, rather than a damp air filled medium. I would love to see you make this demonstration. upon performing this "experiment", you will thoroughly understand what "hydrostatic shock" does to an animal, depending upon where the bullet travels through the animal's body. Hunt honestly (you might also add ethically) and shoot straight. Here is the definition of "hydrostatic shock" from Wikipedia: Hydrostatic shock, also known as Hydro-shock, is the controversial concept that a penetrating projectile (such as a bullet) can produce a pressure wave that causes "remote neural damage", "subtle damage in neural tissues" and "rapid effects" in living targets.[2][3][4] It has also been suggested that pressure wave effects can cause indirect bone fractures at a distance from the projectile path, although it was later demonstrated that indirect bone fractures are caused by temporary cavity effects (strain placed on the bone by the radial tissue displacement produced by the temporary cavity formation).[5]
Proponents of the concept argue that hydrostatic shock can produce remote neural damage and produce incapacitation more quickly than blood loss effects.[2] In arguments about the differences in stopping power between calibers and between cartridge models,............. Have a great day!!!
I like both levers and bolt actions. Where I live, we use shotguns for deer. Actually, they have started to allow single shot rifles, I think. I started with a Savage M67 pump action. I put some clamp on rifle sights, and it was alright. Then one summer, for our birthdays, my mother-in-law gave my brother-in-law am me money to get new guns. Well, for what she gave us I got a Savage 210F and 2-7 scope. That thing is accurate to three hundred yards. It also has a three lug bolt, so the throw on it is 60deg. One time I was shooting at a running deer and my companions thought I was using a semi-auto. Yes, you can get very fast with a bott action.
For what it's worth, I loaded my grandpa's '58 model 94 in 30WCF with Barnes TSX and shot sub-MOA at 70-75YDS with a cheap tasco scope(have pics for proof). If you find the right ammo that your gun likes, lever guns can perform with the bolt actions within 125yds.
The Henry Long Ranger can be a tack driver. I shot a few and was super impressed
Take the 7 prc man don’t over think it
I’d love to see a video, or just a quick overview of the family of .223 based, both commercial like 300blk and wildcats like the 6x45 and the 20 practical.
The 8mm rem mag is pretty impressive
Great video as always, Ron could you maybe cover the 7mm rem mag some more? I think it is a great do all cartridge and would like some more information on it.
I did a video a couple of years ago addressing this very thing, describing how I felt the 7mm RM was the best all-round for hunting the world.
As i have said a few times in other comments, the only magnum which interests me is a 257 Wby. Don't know what i would do with it if i had one, other than target shooting. But i would mostly be loading it to 25-06 levels anyway, in more expensive brass. So the only eay it would make sense is if i got a really good deal on the rifle, so that $30 or $40 more for 100 cases is more than offset by rifle savings (100 cases would last a long time, esp with slightly reduced loads). Since that is highly unlikely, it is all academic.
I am sure you were confining your comments to current production lever actions, but a mention of the Win 88 and Savage 99 would be good. The Win 88, as you know, is a rotary bolt connected to a lever, in a one piece stock, so it has the same advantages as a bolt action. I have heard it is a copy of the Sako Finnwolf, but i do not know for sure. The 99 is a more traditional tilting bolt lever action, with the rotary mag that allows spitzer bullets. Both are commonly available on the used gun market, although prices are going up. I love mine, both in 308 Win. And of course, the 99 is most commonly seen in 300 Savage......
I have had no problem with my lever guns shooting moa bolts are OK, I have one but prefer the levers.
As someone who lives in Maine you most likely will have a 100-200 yrs shot across a clear cut. I've never hunted moose myself, I know residents who have put in the lottery for 20 years and never got one. Northern Maine 8-10 years ago, you'ld see 2-3 moose every evening driving back roads, last few years you see 2-3 all.week, given out too.many permits in the last 5 or so years.
Turns out you and I had done some shooting at the same place. Kessler Canyon in Colorado. They sure had a nice setup out there with some awesome food and fishing
Yes, indeed, brinkee. And some wild,steep canyon shooting ranges you rarely find elsewhere.
would have been good to see a Savage 99 or Wn 88 in 308 vs a bolt action comparison of accuracy.
My 1958 Model 88 in 308 shoots close to MOA with basic factory ammo, 150 gr soft points. That is not with a bench rest setup either. That is with me using the edge of a plastic toolbox as a rest for my forward hand. My same era Savage 99 308 is probably a smidge less accurate, but more than accurate enough. The 88 is a lever actuated bolt action with a one piece stock, which gives it an advantage. The 99 is a more traditional tilting bolt lever action with a 2 piece stock. Both are great rifles and fun to shoot. Would love to have another 99 in 300 Savage or 284 Win, or another 88 in 358 Win
What I find interesting is the fact that a mechanism of greater complexity and machining needs, the lever action, was invented before a much simpler mechanism the bolt action. It has always perplexed me.
The early toggle action leverguns were pretty simple and easy to manufacture, but the bolt actions were not that far behind. The toggle actions were limited to essentially pistol cartridges, though. The stronger lever actions with locking bars were introduced after bolt action had become more popular. Winchester sold the Winchester-Hotchkiss 1879 magazine-fed bolt action rifle that could handle the 45-70 before they had a "locking-blick" lever action (Model 1886) that could do so.
I've thought about the same question: Here's my best guess: Jack Hays and the Texas Rangers.
After visiting Congress, Jack stopped by John's Browning's shop and asked for a supply of his 5 shooters, that he had seen earlier on the frontier. The Texas Rangers were fighting the Comanche and needed something to keep up with these nomadic horse archers.
Jack made the following suggestions to John:
1. A pistol / carbine that can be shot from a horse, at full stride
2. A pistol / carbine that could keep up with the Comanche's archery prowess: they could fire 3 arrows almost simultaneously.
3. A pistol / carbone that was 44 mag:
The rest is history.
The bolt action is not practical. Sniping: YES. Manuever warfare: NO.
My secondary question: In rifle, why didn't the rotary magazine become as popular as tube fed magazine? I don't have a good answer.
I live in Northern Ontario. Nothing beats a lever gun in the woods. Compact. Excellent balance. No bolt to contend with while packing your ruck. Quick follow up shots.
Thanks for reading.
My comment was about US-made rifles. The Dreyse "needle gun" was a bolt action that started production in 1836, well before the Henry lever action gun.
@@johnmcadam7493the only point I would make is that during WW2 the battle rifles were either automatic or bolt action, no lever guns. So apparently the bolt was found to be superior than a lever gun.
Well this once in a lifetime bull moose hunt would give me a reason to buye me a new gun. Lol. Like a new 7mm-08 with 130 - 140 gr Barns ttsx ❤
Good choice I love the 7mm-08
It is a great round for 300 yards.
Always time for a new gun.
I tested some 145gr Barnes LRX bullets in a 708 with a 22” barrel… I got 2850fps with Staball 6.5 powder. This thing can deliver 1528ftlb energy to 400m with 2178fps retained velocity in average conditions where we hunt. Pretty solid numbers for such a small cartridge!
I am planning to get a 7mm-08 soon. Have long been interested in it
I like my 450BM and 300wsm bolt guns ...
... the Browning BLR is essentially a lever actuated bolt action
Bench leg refers to blacktail/mule deer hybrids. At least that's how I've heard it here in Oregon
Mr Ron my buddy has a 8 mm Mauser it only had one rifling in the barrel and still pretty accurate! Lol . I guess that they built them that way for mass production.
Probably a late war production, when they cut a lot of corners to get the guns made. Or they just forgot to run the barrel through a second time. Fun fact: a number of 03 Springfields were made with 2-groove barrels. Govt arsenal testing found little difference in accuracy between them and 4-groove barrels. But they went with 4-groove largely because it was both expected and traditional
I really liked shooting the 8x57, it is a good round but it has a limited number of bullets available from US manufacturers(150 & 180 gr.). Also it was the official round of the looser of WWII and many of the available rifles were made by slave labor, so some doubt the quality of late war Mauser rifles. My rifle was very late war, 1945, and was and is an excellent shooter. It is an excellent round.
Sierra used to make a 175 i think, but yeah, the selection is lean. The first 8mm bullets i ever bought were 175 gr slightly blemished from Midway, in blue Midway boxes. Pretty sure they were Sierra factory seconds, and the blems were only cosmetic of course. As i recall, they shot fine. No noticeable difference, and i was just target shooting with my M48 Yugo Mauser anyway.
6.5-06 hilarious 🤙
I think levers are more fun. I would venture to say if just depends on location. Long shots definitely a bolt.
That’s the problem with the 17wsm and the 5mm rem nobody makes rifles for them. Obviously 5mm has been out of production for awhile in rifles but the 17wsm there hasn’t been many guns chambered. Most don’t like the savage bmag. They could make more options and sell more
Dear Ron, You left out the speed of reloading, Unless you practice bolt action cicle whithout taking it of your shoulder and sight, the Lever might be faster. BUT you left the autoloader out of the picture. A BAR in a Powerfull Cartridge up to 300 WM and older models in 338 WM. might be interesting for follow up shots
@@FranzAntonMesmer Of course if you like AR platform. I'm old fashioned and The lines of a BAR more to my liking. But Barrel swapping with a AR10, mindbogling👍
True. I've just discovered -- during some 55 years of hunting -- that I rarely need super fast follow-up shots. But I sure needed them for the 2nd deer of my career, a 150-class whitetail running flat out while I treid to catch up with the 30-30 slugs raising dust ever closer to its tail until I finally pushed the last one far enough ahead to catch him in the neck. What a memory! M94 Win.
I use a 30-06 when I need the energy but other than that I use any lever gun from 38 special to 30-30 especially the pistol calibers they are so much cheaper to shoot
I didn't even know there were meese in Maine.
Get the Tikka t3x in 308 and it should be super accurate and crisp clean trigger pull!
Got a 32spl in a 94 short from my grandpa. It was his horseback rifle. Shoots 170gr lever evolutions great. But it’s a realistic 150yd rifle especially with the 2.5x weaver.
Yep. Great cartridge. To coin a phrase, a man's got to know his limitations.... 😁
Love my 1950 Model 94 .32 Win Spec. I never bother with the FTX bullets. I'd take that, Keep the PRC for banging steel and other play time. Leave the hunting for established tools
Long Ranger is free floated. Trigger is good, made great with a spring change. Accuracy out of my 308 is excellent.
Me when I see a 30 minute RSOP: Just keep talking, Ron.
13:50 In the October 1978 American Rifleman, Colonel Charles Askins authored an interesting article titled "To 8mm And Beyond." He experimented with several 8mm wildcats... 8mm-350 Mag, 8mm-338 Mag, 8mm-340 Mag, 8mm-378 Mag and 8mm-404 (based on the .404 Jeffery case). He reported poor performance with the 8mm bullets of the day at higher velocities. That problem has since been corrected with the Barnes, Nosler and Swift big game bullets.
Steve - look at the Savage Impulse Hog Hunter in 308. Might be the perfect balance between speed and accuracy.
Savage still makes the 17WSM, I just bought one
I am right handed but left eye dominate so lever guns have been good to me. They are however a pain in the a** if you are shooting from a bench or in a prone position. You have to tilt the rifle to work the action. I now only have a couple lever guns, my old model 94 and a Ruger #1. I seldom take the model 94 from the safe because it has become so valuable. A year or so ago I helped a friend sell his collection of model 94 rifles and I was astounded by the prices we got for them. He sold nearly 200 lever guns of all ages by using Brand Used Works, an online auction company. The most valuable one of the bunch was a "Chevy" comm. rifle still in the box with display rack. None of the new 94's were of the same quality as my old model 94.
Look into a decently comfortable but also flexible elbow pad and lift your chest a little so you can shoot off a tall bag, that way you can clear the ground a little better to work the lever. Otherwise something I did when targets got funky was getting an adjustable tripod that can go from about 12” or up to 72” and you can sit behind the rifle, pretty sturdy platform can be more comfortable, just gotta watch your toes if you’re swinging through on a shot.
8×68mm s is a good one for hunting.
Ive heard a lot about bedding or free floating bolt guns, but unless you are shooting past 300yrds ive never seen the point short of want. Im accurate to 200yrds with a marlin 336 in 3030, any bolt gun should be accurate beyond that out of the box.
Get the Browning 325 BLR, shoot close or far, go hunting, no worries. Aim small, good hunting, GOD bless.
I like the advice on the Speer load manual
.I have the 2 volume Hornady manual the Speer and the nosler. All are excellent. I prefer the Speer because they tend to use real rifles for their load data.nosler normally uses a 26 in pressure barrel for alot of their data.not alot of real field info
The issue is that the SAAMI standards specify the exact dimensions for V&P (Velocity and Pressure) test barrels for cartridges. These are the ones on which the loads are developed and tested and a lot of sources just print this data. The idea was to establish a level playing field to allow comparison of velocity of factory ammo. There is no legal reason that the velocity can't be published for other barrel lengths, though.
As an aside, in a recent video Ron mentioned the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC and opined that the SPC was anemic in comparison. My guess is that part of that had to do with the published load info which shows the Grendel to have more velocity and energy. The issue is that the Grendel ammo is tested with a 24" barrel and the SPC with a 16" barrel. When both are shot from 16" barrels (the most common length for both), the 6.8 SPC had both more velocity and more energy. In other words, it is possible to "cheat" and provide misleading info by specifying that overly long barrels be used for testing.
@@jfess1911 that is exactly my point.as I get older there seems to be less and less time to shoot.it is a rare day that I pull the old chronograph out .I just appreciate being able to kind of ballpark a load and should know what my rifle should be getting .pretty lazy I know.my hunting ammo is chronograph and the loads were perfect long ago.tkañks for responding. And I liked your info
As an experienced Maine moose hunter. Take both rifles. Shoot them until they’re dead. They are big and rutting bulls are horned up and dangerous when you call them in close. Use a guide or go a week ahead of time. Lots of people use 30-30 and shoot them in the head or spinal plexus. The more lead you can put in them the better. They aren’t particularly smart, and do tend to drop relatively easily if shot properly. They don’t sprint and you can usually get multiple shots into them. Find the food and the water and you’ll find the bulls. Look for rut sign and you’ll find a moose real close. You’ll get out of the hunt what you put in. Stay warm and dry. It’s a long cold week. Definitely recommend a cot and zero degree or better bag. Bring lots of toilet paper and buy a delorme atlas and gazetteer.
I wood like to find some 5mm re I would like to find some 5 mm Remington rimfire shells
Water Cows don't die hard, but you have to hit them with precision.
Us native mainers use 30-06 and 30-30. Either will take a maine mooxse
Shot the little doe "right in the chest", the doe ran into the swamp and they never found her. If they never found the doe, how does he know that he hit it in the chest? Maybe the recoil of the 300 RUM was such that he made a bad shot or missed altogether. I have a feeling that there is much more to the story.
I had a couple 17 caliber rifles, i wasn't too fond of that tiny bore. Then one day a guy came in with his 17 hmr with a bore snake stuck in it. I don't know if they ever got it out, they were still working on it when I left. I lost all interest in 17's after that.
Best lever action model 99 savage, I harvest 24 bucks and mulys 22hi power cartridges
I feel like this discussion is limited to specific guns. The Savage 99 lever action has a .308 option, you know.
We need something to fill the gap between the 308 and the 30-06.
Never had a elk or deer not drop to my 300 win MAG. Bigger bullt going faster going do more damage.
Bolt action has always been the way for me. Easier to repair and work on if needed and less moving parts
The lever action has a cool factor but I’d still go with a bolt action.
Cross between black tail and mule deer = Benchleg
JUST BOUGHT A 1902 WINCHESTER OCTAGONE 32 CALIBER
I have a question about lever guns I own a Henry big boy chambered in 44mag the ammo I'm shooting is a federal premium with a swift A-frame 280gr bullet and I live out here in southern New Mexico witch is pretty open and I'm debating rather or not to use this rifle for hunting mule deer what do u think? And what ranges do u recommend?
I don't consider the 44 Mag. optimum for open-country mule deer due to its limited range, but if you're willing to stalk close, it is more than capable of terminating the biggest mule deer. Open sights will also limit your effective reach. Figure out your bullets' trajectory, practice at extended ranges and determine your limits. Then you'll know if you want to try it.
@RonSpomerOutdoors ok thank you so much . I'm sorry, I should have said that my rifle has a scope on it. But yes, I will practice and test my limitations with the rifle and go from there. Thank you so much
a lever action in 460 S&W will be the best of both worlds?
... most don't live long enuf to draw a Maine moose tag ... few & far between
Hello, Ron’s comment section and or Ron. I’m fresh into the world of firearms and I’m about to be 18 and old enough to own my own firearm I’m pretty excited. Anyways I’m just here wondering the thoughts on brand, caliber, and anything at all I’d need to know. I have my eye set on the Henry selection of rifles. I constantly hear good things of them and marlin but I’m wondering if there’s any way you guys could help me decide. I’m pretty partial to getting a lever action for the cowboy style it has hah but in all seriousness I’d like to know the thoughts. And if you do read this Ron thank you for putting out videos
So far every one I’ve watched I’ve enjoyed and learned a bit indeed.
Thank you, Jackson, and welcome to the fraternity. As for Henry and Marlin, both are great American-made rifles. Some say Marlins are slightly better quality, but the Henry's look awfully solid and well built to me. I suggest you get hold of each and see what you think. I have one Henry Long Ranger that shoots sub MOA groups. Good luck with whatever you choose.
A 30-30 is a great place to start in a traditional lever action. If you want a little more power, get a Long Ranger or Browning BLR in 308. That will handle almost anything in North America, within reasonable ranges. And you wouldn't need another rifle unless you get into varmint hunting or frequent big bear hunting. Or until you start collecting after getting bitten by the bug. 😁 At your age, i assume finances will be tight for awhile, especially if you go to college or trade school, and as you start your adult life. So one rifle that can do almost everything makes a lot of sense for now. Good luck, young man!
I think ETA is "Estimated Time of Arrival"
Dustin the Henry Long range have a free floated barrel
An off the wall question, has anyone done recent testing on free-float vs glass-bed vs military-style banded barrel accuracy?
Free float and bedding aren’t in competition, they are done to the same rifle. You float the barrel and bed the action, yes they frequently put material all the way down the stock to stiffen the stock but that’s to ensure the stock doesn’t touch the barrel when it’s pushed against a rest.
It's not one against the other so much as which one works best for your rifle. Some shoot best floated, some with tight, full stock bedding, so with floating barrel until a pressure point at the tip.
I think I've heard modern 30-06 ammo has higher pressures than a 1903 or Garand can handle and you need to buy or make special loads for the pre-1950 rifles?
Yes, Rosso, it is recommended one shoot 150-gr. loads in the Garand and keep pressures on the low side due to potential for bending the operating rod. It's not so much a peak pressure concern (SAAMI spec. for 30-06 has always been 60,000 psi) as when and how sharply that peak is reached, as I understand it. Military ball ammo for the M1 Garand was tweaked for the perfect operating pressures with the powder/primer and 150-gr. bullet the military developed for it. Some factory ammo is loaded to match this and is specified as such. Handloaders can find loads for the M1 Garand in the Hornady Manual. Another option is a special gas port from GarandGear that allows, I believe, shooting any factory 30-06 loads in an M1 Garand.
It is very important to load m-1 garands with loads made to military spec. Or you need to install some sort of adjustable gas system.
I could never justify using a magnum. Heavier gun, more recoil, costlier ammo. Inefficient compared with short and long action cartridges. Unless you always have a use for it. I would say you’ll save big by going smaller than a magnum. All you sacrifice is a little distance and elevation, drop and wid drift. But once you’re used to the gun you would probably be able to bring home as many kills as your hunting parner with the big manum. Although he’s all cranky and sweaty, and his shoulder is real tender from the recoil. One of you is gonna be glad he brought his 280 ackley. Lol
Also, the "proper" nomenclature is 8x57 I(S) not J(S). The "J" was old German type for "I" for Infanterie (Infantry). The English speaking world kept it as J/JS to prevent confusion as it looks like a J.
An 8mm in a gas gun would be awesome.
I think there are a couple of short 338 cartridges now- 338 Spectre and 8.6 Blackout. I have often thought that a mid length 8mm cartridge (say, 51 mm or less) in an AR-10 platform would be interesting. Conceivably you could make the case shorter than 51 mm, depending on pressure limits of the AR-10. But there is little commercial market, we have way too many new cartridges already, and we already have the sadly unappreciated 338 Federal, which should work great in an AR-10. And don't get me started on my reimagined 280 British from a few years ago. Lol
Don’t worry so much about which rifle to take, it makes more sense to take more than one loading for the same rifle. Especially if you are likely to encounter a variety of potential shot distances. Keep one controlled expansion projectile for closer stuff, maybe a copper solid out to 400 yards or so. Then take another one that will reliably expand at the slower velocities seen past 400 yards.
A can't agree with taking multiple loads, Stephen. Complicates things if you're trying to remember which load you have chambered and what its trajectory curve is compared to the others. And you're likely to have the wrong load in at the right time.
Thanks Ron, for all of your knowledge. Have you heard of the CVA scout and if you have please let me know. Also I’m looking for 243 win in a rifle for deer any good inexpensive rifle you know of and also let me know please again.
Ruger American, savge axis, Remington700, mossberg Patriot, CVA cascade are all cheap rifles that are great shooting guns very accurate and will do the same as more expensive rifles
I have the savage axis 243. The Walmart special and it does surprisingly well on paper but I have taken antelope, deer both whitetail and mule deer, and a hand full of elk. Even dropped 1 6x6 bull at 250 yards. The 243 is very underrated but very surprising.
@@cameroncassel994 I got the savge axis in 30-06, a remington 770 in 308, and a ruger american predator in 6.5creed all are 1moa guns they shoot just as good as my more expensive bolt action rifles but Im not a fan of the 243 there are so many better options
@warrengreen3217 I have few winchester model 70's when winchester still made them in 80's and hand down as comparable to Weatherby for accuracy. He asked about a cheap budget gun for hunting with good accuracy.
@@cameroncassel994 I know, you didn't read my comments gave like 5 guns priced cheap and are good as higher end rifles that get 1moa out the box at 100yards
To my brother going moose hunting, don’t over think it. Good luck and be safe.
In my humble opinion the 308 shouldn't even exist when we already had something that could pretty much do it all better in 7.92 x57 JS but my mom told me that I'm special and I'm still trying to figure out who that is 🤣